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On August 06 2012 14:53 McFeser wrote:
What's more prestigious? Winning TSL or an MLG? That should be more than enough to answer whether or not TSL is prestigious enough to be included.
I don't think it's a matter of prestige it's a matter of online or not. See my edit two posts up but a massive flood opens up of possibilities if you include TSL.
Edit: And yeah, it makes sense to include offline finals as they are LAN.
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On August 06 2012 14:56 opterown wrote:
i think the TSL-NASL comparison is a fair one; i've decided to consider the NASL offline finals as included, but not the NASL main season. TSL finals are offline, but the main season is not hrmmm.
i think MLG prestige > TSL tbh
If MLG was once a year then maybe it would be more prestigious but there's so many of them is winning one really that special?
I mean, how many people remember who won MLG Raleigh 2011 by heart vs how many remember the winner of TSL3?
( even I had to look that up to be sure and I've been following everything for 2 years now )
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Today's result for TSL is ok to count as both players were in Europe so minimal lag. But what happens next week when its cross server? As much as we like to pretend that cross server isn't an issue, it is. And its a big one. Darkforce vs Sting will be played on NA yet neither of them live in NA. Not really fair to count games like that.
Keep it for "offline" tournaments.
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On August 06 2012 14:59 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 14:56 opterown wrote:
i think the TSL-NASL comparison is a fair one; i've decided to consider the NASL offline finals as included, but not the NASL main season. TSL finals are offline, but the main season is not hrmmm.
i think MLG prestige > TSL tbh If MLG was once a year then maybe it would be more prestigious but there's so many of them is winning one really that special? I mean, how many people remember who won MLG Raleigh 2011 by heart vs how many remember the winner of TSL3? ( even I had to look that up to be sure and I've been following everything for 2 years now )
But a lot more people could name someone who's won at least one MLG.
And I'm sure a ton of people could tell you that Leenock won MLG Providence.
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On August 06 2012 14:59 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 14:56 opterown wrote:
i think the TSL-NASL comparison is a fair one; i've decided to consider the NASL offline finals as included, but not the NASL main season. TSL finals are offline, but the main season is not hrmmm.
i think MLG prestige > TSL tbh If MLG was once a year then maybe it would be more prestigious but there's so many of them is winning one really that special? I mean, how many people remember who won MLG Raleigh 2011 by heart vs how many remember the winner of TSL3? ( even I had to look that up to be sure and I've been following everything for 2 years now )
Not good enough. By that logic random once a year tournaments in China like StarWars is more prestigious than MLG.
TSL is the most prestigious online tournament there is but it's not touching the major LANs like MLG or DreamHack. The fact that few big name Koreans bothered with the qualifiers and the low viewer counts support you can't beat live anymore no matter what the name of your tourney is.
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On August 06 2012 14:56 opterown wrote:
i think MLG prestige > TSL tbh
Not really. Think about the reputation boost that Thorzain got from winning TSL3. He went from a complete nobody to basically an immortal status. And after TSL he didn't have any notable results anywhere for a LONG time, yet his status as one of the top foreign players was unchallenged.
Nony basically still lives off of his TSL2 win. Mondragon (who didn't even win) and JF, while both barely even play, get a ton of recognition and interest years after they competed.
Nobody got that kind of long term status and fame from winning an MLG, and they never will.
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On August 06 2012 15:04 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 14:59 Dodgin wrote:On August 06 2012 14:56 opterown wrote:
i think the TSL-NASL comparison is a fair one; i've decided to consider the NASL offline finals as included, but not the NASL main season. TSL finals are offline, but the main season is not hrmmm.
i think MLG prestige > TSL tbh If MLG was once a year then maybe it would be more prestigious but there's so many of them is winning one really that special? I mean, how many people remember who won MLG Raleigh 2011 by heart vs how many remember the winner of TSL3? ( even I had to look that up to be sure and I've been following everything for 2 years now ) But a lot more people could name someone who's won at least one MLG. And I'm sure a ton of people could tell you that Leenock won MLG Providence.
I don't think this is true at all ;o
maybe they can tell you the most recent MLG winner but past MLG wins are barely talked about when discussing players.
Thorzain winning TSL3 is the highlight of his career, not his dreamhack win.
On August 06 2012 15:07 RaiKageRyu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 14:59 Dodgin wrote:On August 06 2012 14:56 opterown wrote:
i think the TSL-NASL comparison is a fair one; i've decided to consider the NASL offline finals as included, but not the NASL main season. TSL finals are offline, but the main season is not hrmmm.
i think MLG prestige > TSL tbh If MLG was once a year then maybe it would be more prestigious but there's so many of them is winning one really that special? I mean, how many people remember who won MLG Raleigh 2011 by heart vs how many remember the winner of TSL3? ( even I had to look that up to be sure and I've been following everything for 2 years now ) Not good enough. By that logic random once a year tournaments in China like StarWars is more prestigious than MLG. TSL is the most prestigious online tournament there is but it's not touching the major LANs like MLG or DreamHack. The fact that few big name Koreans bothered with the qualifiers and the low viewer counts support you can't beat live anymore no matter what the name of your tourney is.
It's the ro32 and we're already getting 30k viewers for matches, that doesn't seem low to me.
I'll always hold a TSL victory in higher regard than a single MLG or DH win, I know I'm not alone on that either.
Naniwa wins MLG Dallas 2011, Thorzain wins TSL3. I care more about TSL3 by far.
Ask Thorzain yourself and he will tell you his TSL3 victory was much more important to him than Dreamhack.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
I actually don't care about MLGs at all, especially with their system now.
Maybe that's just me though
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On August 06 2012 15:13 lichter wrote:
I actually don't care about MLGs at all, especially with their system now.
Maybe that's just me though
I find it hard to care about MLG when they are missing so many of the biggest names in sc2. I was way more excited for MLG's last year where we had Mvp and MMA at them.
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Once Flash starts taking SC2 seriously, I think we all know who will be the real world champion then, I mean come on seriously....It is Flash. :-P
Nice effort and idea I like it. gl hf~
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prestige of the tournament doesn't matter. its fair conditions. like it or not, TSL doesn't have fair conditions due to cross server play.
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Prestige doesn't matter, it only matters if it's online or offline.
Seriously...
TSL
KSL
ESV
NASL Regular Season
IPLTAC
NASTL
Qualifiers for MLG, WCG, WCS, IPL, NASL, etc.
Those are all big ones, but they're not included because they're not offline. Keep it simple.
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On August 06 2012 15:16 jmbthirteen wrote:
prestige of the tournament doesn't matter. its fair conditions. like it or not, TSL doesn't have fair conditions due to cross server play.
Then MLG doesn't have fair conditions because many players are jetlagged and tired while playing.
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On August 06 2012 15:19 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 15:16 jmbthirteen wrote:
prestige of the tournament doesn't matter. its fair conditions. like it or not, TSL doesn't have fair conditions due to cross server play. Then MLG doesn't have fair conditions because many players are jetlagged and tired while playing.
not the same thing at all.
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On August 06 2012 15:20 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 15:19 Talin wrote:On August 06 2012 15:16 jmbthirteen wrote:
prestige of the tournament doesn't matter. its fair conditions. like it or not, TSL doesn't have fair conditions due to cross server play. Then MLG doesn't have fair conditions because many players are jetlagged and tired while playing. not the same thing at all.
Obviously it's not the same thing, yet it affects player performance at least as much. So fair conditions - I don't think so.
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On August 06 2012 15:07 RaiKageRyu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 14:59 Dodgin wrote:On August 06 2012 14:56 opterown wrote:
i think the TSL-NASL comparison is a fair one; i've decided to consider the NASL offline finals as included, but not the NASL main season. TSL finals are offline, but the main season is not hrmmm.
i think MLG prestige > TSL tbh If MLG was once a year then maybe it would be more prestigious but there's so many of them is winning one really that special? I mean, how many people remember who won MLG Raleigh 2011 by heart vs how many remember the winner of TSL3? ( even I had to look that up to be sure and I've been following everything for 2 years now ) Not good enough. By that logic random once a year tournaments in China like StarWars is more prestigious than MLG. TSL is the most prestigious online tournament there is but it's not touching the major LANs like MLG or DreamHack. The fact that few big name Koreans bothered with the qualifiers and the low viewer counts support you can't beat live anymore no matter what the name of your tourney is.
But this isn't random logic. TSL is the second oldest star league that is still running. This WAS the tournament to win if you were a foreigner in Broodwar and given the preparation time players are given I think we can drop the disadvantage that online/cross server tournaments create. And top players did try to qualify - and failed.
And I can guarantee you Nerchio cares more about winning a series in TSL4 then to get knocked out of IEM. Given his emotional reaction to his lost, and given how players talk about how much it would mean to them to win a TSL, it's pretty apparent that the TSL isn't some random online tournament. It's simply on a different level when you look at Starwars, random online cups, and (I know many will disagree) MLG/NASL/IPL.
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On August 06 2012 15:15 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 15:13 lichter wrote:
I actually don't care about MLGs at all, especially with their system now.
Maybe that's just me though I find it hard to care about MLG when they are missing so many of the biggest names in sc2. I was way more excited for MLG's last year where we had Mvp and MMA at them.
Honestly, the people who attend such as DongRaeGu, MarineKing, TaeJa, and Stephano (I grudgingly admit that Stephano is really good) are just as relevant as Bomber, Polt, MC, and MMA were. MLGs are still stacked, we have just gotten used to it.
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On August 06 2012 15:10 Dodgin wrote:
Thorzain winning TSL3 is the highlight of his career, not his dreamhack win.
You mean the DreamHack that was in his home town, where everyone in the crowd was cheering on their home town hero?
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On August 06 2012 15:22 Entirety wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 15:15 Dodgin wrote:On August 06 2012 15:13 lichter wrote:
I actually don't care about MLGs at all, especially with their system now.
Maybe that's just me though I find it hard to care about MLG when they are missing so many of the biggest names in sc2. I was way more excited for MLG's last year where we had Mvp and MMA at them. Honestly, the people who attend such as DongRaeGu, MarineKing, TaeJa, and Stephano (I grudgingly admit that Stephano is really good) are just as relevant as Bomber, Polt, MC, and MMA were. MLGs are still stacked, we have just gotten used to it.
DRG and Marineking aren't even going to the Summer Championship and they weren't at the Summer Arena though.
And even if they are " just as good " I don't get as excited because they are different players, Mvp and MMA are legends in Starcraft 2 so I want to see them play at the " biggest NA event "
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On August 06 2012 15:20 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 15:20 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 06 2012 15:19 Talin wrote:On August 06 2012 15:16 jmbthirteen wrote:
prestige of the tournament doesn't matter. its fair conditions. like it or not, TSL doesn't have fair conditions due to cross server play. Then MLG doesn't have fair conditions because many players are jetlagged and tired while playing. not the same thing at all. Obviously it's not the same thing, yet it affects player performance at least as much. So fair conditions - I don't think so.
yet players like Huk would travel around the world playing jetlagged, but refuse to play cross server because its bad.
why do you think so many players say cross server doesn't matter? Why did so many Koreans lose in TSL3? Its not because Goody is better than Nestea. Its because cross server play sucks.
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EPT
