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What a silly discussion.
I could understand this if the discussion was about including premier online events to the list, discussing whether or not (TSL3 and) TSL4 should be included is lame and biased towards TL, especially because nobody raised this point before these recent TSL4 games.
IPL 1/2, IronSquid, NASL group stage, NASTL, EGMC, and probably more tournaments have similar conditions to those of TSL, mainly that you know your opponent (player/team) in advance and there is a significant prize pool and viewer number. Why does TSL have to be more important than these other online cups? (the answer probabli lies somewhere between TL fanboyism and TL elitism).
So yes, I think this discussion should be about including major online events to the list and if we decide to do so, set up conditions for online tournaments to qualify for this. Although it would be much simpler to just have the hard LAN line.
Eg. fullfil one or more of these conditions:
- Significant prize pool.
- Prestigious tournament
- Whatevs
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Also lets keep it civil guys, nobody here is retarded, I can understand the argument either way, but yeah, it should be offline events only without exception otherwise you're just making an exception based on a bias and that's no fun.
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Yep, stick to the original rule. No point in making exceptions or changing rules on the fly. Nerchio is still the champ till IEM (I think that's the next where we have nerchio).
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On August 06 2012 18:50 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 18:27 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On August 06 2012 17:46 Lavit2099 wrote:On August 06 2012 16:18 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On August 06 2012 16:12 Lavit2099 wrote:
Offline events only OR redo the entire thing to include online tournaments. You can't have it both ways. So no champion at all? Haha, soo funny. There is no Offline, nor is there LAN. But if you need to have the concept explained to you, I think there's a SC2 newbies post somewhere that could help. If it has to be played online anyways it doesnt matter wether the people sit next to each other or a some miles away. But if you need to get the concept explained to you, I'm sure you'll find help somewhere else. This is also an important point to be made. Starcraft 2 "LAN" events are only LAN events in the cultural sense, but not in the gameplay sense. Let's also not forget how much live events struggled with latency throughout 2010 and 2011. MLG had terrible issues with venue internet before Sundance rolled in the fabled satellite trucks. IPL3 had notoriously bad lag throughout the event as well. So if perfect conditions are a requirement to be included in this, then all those events should be discarded as well. Finally, I feel that a lot of people need a crash course in how internet works. The latency of an SC2 "LAN" event depends almost exclusively on the location that the LAN is organized in. A live event on the US East Coast or most of Canada actually has worse latency than two players playing ladder on the West Coast, where the Battle.net servers are. The second issue that live events have to deal with is the quality and stability of connection at the venue - and a lot of events had trouble with that and it did impact gameplay as much as cross region play does (lag "spikes" are potentially much worse for players than a somewhat higher but stable latency).
it's not the point of perfect conditions i think it's more even conditions as we want to keep the playing field fair which is why online (cross server/non cross) isn't counted.
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On August 06 2012 20:34 TheDougler wrote:
Also lets keep it civil guys, nobody here is retarded, I can understand the argument either way, but yeah, it should be offline events only without exception otherwise you're just making an exception based on a bias and that's no fun.
eactly my feel.
we can't go deciding on the fly. the rule was set, now stick to it. no matter how sticky icky you feel about it, things must remain consistent or the championship means nothing.
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How on earth did you have the patience to do this? Especially since it's more like a troll rank compared to a real world rank xD
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On August 06 2012 21:25 opterown wrote:lol so much anger guys, chill a bit  this is only for fun,after all :D
If you are refering to my post then you are totally wrong. Im not angry at all.
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opterown
Australia54785 Posts
On August 06 2012 21:29 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:25 opterown wrote:lol so much anger guys, chill a bit this is only for fun,after all :D If you are refering to my post then you are totally wrong. Im not angry at all.
everyone in general for the last few pages! not yours haha :D
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I actually invited Nerchio to a LAN at my house, drugged him before we played a game, and I won!!!!
Yayy!!!!!
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If you actually include the ladder stats, you can figure that some random bronze account belongs to an unofficial world champion.
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The real multi-page discussion that should be happening is The actual UWC Belt.
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On August 06 2012 18:17 masterbreti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 17:56 LennoxPM wrote:On August 06 2012 17:40 masterbreti wrote:On August 06 2012 17:34 LennoxPM wrote:
Im not really sure what you are talking about? I wasnt playing BW and I think about TSL as just one of the bigger online tournaments (NASL, TSL, IPL, Iron Squid).
THE tournament in sc2 is GSL by far. After that LAN's in Europe and NA. Winning a TSL is more important to players then winning something like Iron squid, because TSL goes back to the BW days, when BW players would spend months at a time to get a high enough ranking to qualify for TSL1 and TSL2. If you didn't play BW then I think you should go back and watch the TSL1 and 2 and learn about BW and the TSL origins before calling it just another tournament. TSL was The tournament. Sort of like the foreigner OSL, but online. TSL has a pedigree, many other tournament don't. Thats is why it is so important, and why it should be included. I see only one argument from you. It WAS big back in BW days. But it IS not that big any more. ROFL it is still big. Just because you don't think it is important, doesn't mean it isn't one of the most important tournaments. IT is on par with IPL, NASL, GSL. That is the cold truth of the matter. Just because you don't care about TSL's pedigree, doesn't mean it isn't there.
I actually think he's right, TSL may have been THE tournament back in BW days, but in SC2 it's just another tourney with a reasonable prize pool and players...although NASL, IPL and GSL have much more money involved and players talentwise are not even comparable(as someone said, this TSL4 looks a lot like Iron squid, eventhough there weren't many qualifiers and the players there were much more "famous").
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You guys totally don't understand where the "unofficial world champion" came from. The point of unofficial world champion is exactly to include small tourneys. You can argue ladder games should not count, but every tourney, however small it may be, should be included.
Hell, North Korea is unofficial world champion of football.
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On August 07 2012 01:00 Rhaegar_tar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 18:17 masterbreti wrote:On August 06 2012 17:56 LennoxPM wrote:On August 06 2012 17:40 masterbreti wrote:On August 06 2012 17:34 LennoxPM wrote:
Im not really sure what you are talking about? I wasnt playing BW and I think about TSL as just one of the bigger online tournaments (NASL, TSL, IPL, Iron Squid).
THE tournament in sc2 is GSL by far. After that LAN's in Europe and NA. Winning a TSL is more important to players then winning something like Iron squid, because TSL goes back to the BW days, when BW players would spend months at a time to get a high enough ranking to qualify for TSL1 and TSL2. If you didn't play BW then I think you should go back and watch the TSL1 and 2 and learn about BW and the TSL origins before calling it just another tournament. TSL was The tournament. Sort of like the foreigner OSL, but online. TSL has a pedigree, many other tournament don't. Thats is why it is so important, and why it should be included. I see only one argument from you. It WAS big back in BW days. But it IS not that big any more. ROFL it is still big. Just because you don't think it is important, doesn't mean it isn't one of the most important tournaments. IT is on par with IPL, NASL, GSL. That is the cold truth of the matter. Just because you don't care about TSL's pedigree, doesn't mean it isn't there. I actually think he's right, TSL may have been THE tournament back in BW days, but in SC2 it's just another tourney with a reasonable prize pool and players...although NASL, IPL and GSL have much more money involved and players talentwise are not even comparable(as someone said, this TSL4 looks a lot like Iron squid, eventhough there weren't many qualifiers and the players there were much more "famous").
+ Its online and online results after the spades incident means nothing. Personaly the spades incident broke my trust in any online competition and I pretty much only watch the lan events
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I was following the beginning of the creation of this Unofficial World Champion title and the main condition since the beginning was the "offline events" thing. So I think we must follow this rule. So, only the TSL finals should count as this is the only match which is played offline. As well as the Ro8 NASL, Ro4 Iron Squid, etc.
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if your gonna include homestory cup of course TSL4 should count.
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opterown
Australia54785 Posts
On August 07 2012 01:14 mango_destroyer wrote:
if your gonna include homestory cup of course TSL4 should count.
why? HSC is played live at a lan setting, with on-location broadcast, while TSL isn't.
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On August 07 2012 01:14 mango_destroyer wrote:
if your gonna include homestory cup of course TSL4 should count.
Its a live event you know for a fact players arnt cheating. How do you know players arnt cheating in TSL?
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Amazing Slasher-logic right there.
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EPT
