TDA definitely needs to go because of how macro oriented matchups are now. Rocks at the third and the scatter of expansions makes me really uneasy on this map. Flat choke at main as other people said is also a problem.

I honestly love Shakuras Plateau. Maybe it's becuase I'm a Protoss player, but I like how there's one entrance to the natural. I think You can make a mini-wall at the third that's closer to the tower and fourth can be in the center top/bottom expansions (I think desRow taught that during Maximus's boot camp).

Entombed Valley i like too, because it's not too big and it just feels like a really clean map, unless it's horizontally adjacent spawns.

Condemned Ridge I veto'ed after about two games. It is absolutely unnecessarily large, and there are too many spots for proxies, hidden bases, etc.

Antiga seems like a good three-base map, as the fourth seems really hard to take. I veto'ed this map only because my computer is super bad and my frame rate is horrendous on this map. (I average 13 in beginning and usually drop down to single digits mid-late game. maybe that's why i play toss xD)

Ohana is a really good map, no question about it.

Daybreak for the same reason as Antiga is veto'ed for me. Seems like a good map nonetheless.

Cloud Kingdom is an okay map for me, although I don't like the third base placement.

RPR_Tempest

Australia7799 Posts

July 19 2012 18:06 GMT

#163

Put Metropolis back in and replace the entire map pool except Ohana, Daybreak and Cloud Kingdom. Can keep Shakuras if they remove those broken fucking cliffs.

-FoX

United States479 Posts

July 19 2012 18:10 GMT

#164

The polls reflect my opinions pretty much identically. TDA and Shakuras have been around too long. I tend to veto these maps simply because playing on them isn't fun or refreshing really in any way. Also I feel TDA is pretty awful for TvZ/TvP so I've taken it out. Condemned I've never liked, I played a few games on it at the beginning of the season but found it to be a bad map and have veto'd it ever since. Other than that I like the current map pool. Ohana and Cloud are a lot of fun, Daybreak I don't know how I feel but for now I think it can stay.

kochanfe

Micronesia1338 Posts

July 19 2012 18:12 GMT

#165

Tal'Darim and Shakuras are horrible. Antiga should also probably go. Condemned Ridge doesn't seem INHERENTLY bad but many of the community maps and ESV maps are simply much better, so there's really no reason to have it in the map pool. Ohana, Daybreak, Cloud Kingdom, and (to a lesser extent) Entombed are all very good maps. I also wish they would add Metropolis back into the ladder pool (hopefully they were able to fix some of its problems).

SniXSniPe

United States1938 Posts

July 19 2012 18:14 GMT

#166

This thread is full of bias, and precisely why they should not listen to the public community.

Race A sucks on XXX map, so it needs to be removed, but lets keep map XXX2 because Race A is great on it (while Race B has a terrible win rate on it).

Infernal_dream

United States2359 Posts

July 19 2012 18:23 GMT

#167

On July 20 2012 03:14 SniXSniPe wrote:
This thread is full of bias, and precisely why they should not listen to the public community.

Race A sucks on XXX map, so it needs to be removed, but lets keep map XXX2 because Race A is great on it (while Race B has a terrible win rate on it).

Yup. It shows exactly why we have veto's. Granted I haven't vetoed any map since the game released and just play on them all.

Scurvy

United States117 Posts

July 19 2012 18:25 GMT

#168

I guess I am unique in thinking that this is a relatively good map pool, but I am just tired of certain maps, such as Shakuras and Tal'Darim. I don't find them incredibly imbalanced (with the debatable exception of Tal'Darim). But I am tired of them, and would love just a change of scenery.

Aeceus

United Kingdom1278 Posts

July 19 2012 18:25 GMT

#169

Entombed, Antiga, Taldarim and Ohana need to go

FatBat

Germany326 Posts

July 19 2012 18:26 GMT

#170

I remember the time when TDA was actually the best map in the mappool. But honestly it sucks. I hope they add one big map like metropolis but not whirlwind+ metropolis. Some mid sized map are fantastic.

+ Show Spoiler +

I think that is right now the problem. We dont know what a good map is. Too big, too good for zerg. Many ramps protoss heaven etc. I think adding maps for one season and testing them is the perfect way to create the perfect ladder pool.

Noocta

France12578 Posts

July 19 2012 18:29 GMT

#171

I feel like we need more maps like Ohana and Belshir beach Winter.

Belshir winter had some huge problems, but the middle map with the two main attacks path was really fun for the game. Some of the best TvT ever played were on this map.

These two examples are the perfect example of a fair size with just enough expansions.
I'm sick of 4 players map with 16+ expo where an army need to travel for 2min to get to the other side. It make the game blant because people can't leave their base ever.

speknek

758 Posts

July 19 2012 18:32 GMT

#172

Taldarim, yes. Poorly positioned natural, no ramp to main, rocks blocking third (and if they weren't, it would be too easy for p/z to double expo)
Shakuras, no. Good map. Forces zerg to actually defend their 3rd, that's nice for a change.
Entombed, no. Maybe a bit too easy for toss to make deathball, but it's not bad.
Condemned Ridge, lol plz.
Antiga, dunno. Pretty good map, but the games are very predictable/boring on it, imo.
Ohana, no. Let it stay for a while longer.
Daybreak, no. I hate it, but it's better than the other big maps and I guess there needs to be a big map in the pool.
Cloud, yes. Boring imo.

MarcusRife

343 Posts

July 19 2012 20:46 GMT

#173

Since no one knows about all the possibilities that are out there with respect to ladder maps I have created another thread to showcase a sampling.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354253

It has also been linked in the op.

phrenzy

United Kingdom478 Posts

July 19 2012 21:48 GMT

#174

Cloud Kingdom, ZvP forces zerg to basically turtle to broodlords. Sentries / Immortal all-in ridiculously effective (more so than other maps). Toss can wall off ramp to the natural forcing only 1 entrance point to the third... which can also be walled off with gates and cannons. Since the third is directly below the main, mutas are impossible if blink has been researched. And every ZvP is either 3 base roach ling attack fail (ive only seen stephano consistently succeed with it), sentry immortal all in with ease or zerg turles to broods and a-moves.The only time games are relatively interesting is when mothership is out. It literally is impossible to attack whether you have an advantage or not, zergs are easily kept at a safe distance.

Catatafish

75 Posts

July 19 2012 22:01 GMT

#175

Antiga just needs to be fixed so it's cross spawns only. Shakuras and Tal'Darim needs to go. The more the map pool resembles the GSL map pool, the happier I would be.

desarrisc

Canada226 Posts

July 19 2012 22:15 GMT

#176

TDA and Shakuras feel way too old and stale. It's always downvoted for me. Also Condemned Ridge is wayy too big (blizzard's method of balancing stuff out other than rocks, by making the maps large).

Antiga should stay for another season imo (Blizzard should fix to be cross spawn only next season). Cloud Kingdom, Ohana, and Entombed are good enough to stay.

Daybreak is a fun map.

I think Whirlwind and Belshir Beach winter would be an interesting addition.

Vindicare605

United States16122 Posts

July 19 2012 22:20 GMT

#177

On July 20 2012 07:01 Catatafish wrote:
Antiga just needs to be fixed so it's cross spawns only. Shakuras and Tal'Darim needs to go. The more the map pool resembles the GSL map pool, the happier I would be.

The GSL map pool isn't perfect though, or have you forgotten already about Calm Before the Storm. If any map was destined to NEVER be in the ladder map pool it's that monstrosity. Crossfire is another brilliant example of GSL's map pool not always being perfect.

Don't get me wrong, I love me some GSL maps, but I'm too well aware of the danger of just blindly following the map pool the GSL uses.

Valon

United States329 Posts

July 19 2012 22:40 GMT

#178

Season 9 map Pool wish list
1. Daybreak
2. Ohana
3. Entombed Valley
4. Metropolis
5. Cloud Kingdom
6. ESV Spring (looks promising)
7. ESv Muuspelheim (looks promising)
8. Atlantis Spaceship

Lukeeze[zR]

Switzerland6838 Posts

July 19 2012 22:46 GMT

#179

Daybreak and TDA need to be burned.

Keytar

Canada156 Posts

July 19 2012 22:47 GMT

#180

I think a lot of the dislike for Tal'darim and Shakuras is that we're getting tired of older maps. The rocks at the third on Tal'darim doesn't help though, removing them would be wise for all the poor zergs.

Speaking of the poor zergs, I bet they're the ones against Entombed Valley too, ZvP there is troublesome.

I'm really happy community-made maps like Ohana and Cloud Kingdom are universally loved, ESV is doing such good work