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On July 20 2012 00:50 ZAiNs wrote:
- Tal'darim
- Antiga Shipyard
- Shakuras Plateau
+ Metropolis
+ Korhal Compound TE
+ _____ Plateua; similar to Shakuras but with multiple attack paths and without boring map-split-in-half layout.
Also disable horizontal positions on Entombed Valley.
Korhal Compound isn't coming back, that was a terrible map (even Blizzard had common sense to remove after one season)
Would also like to see Tal'darim and SP gone for sure. Tal'darim rocks at 3rd is just outdated, there's a reason why none of the maps have this anymore.
Shakuras is old and should be gotten rid of, although it was a good map.
Antiga, I actually don't mind. Would prefer cross pos only but I do enjoy playing on that map somewhat.
Would like removal of TDA/SP for now, add Metropolis and another map (one of the current GSL ones).
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On July 20 2012 00:53 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 00:50 ZAiNs wrote:
- Tal'darim
- Antiga Shipyard
- Shakuras Plateau
+ Metropolis
+ Korhal Compound TE
+ _____ Plateua; similar to Shakuras but with multiple attack paths and without boring map-split-in-half layout.
Also disable horizontal positions on Entombed Valley. Please don't bring back Korhal. Please.
Agreed, as the maker of Korhal Compound  . It's beyond too old and it was never meant to be played with this metagame. I made it six months before it was added to the ladder season, and by now its about a year old. It was never a great design in the first place, especially the fifth bases. Let's move on to some new stuff.
And in this case new stuff means new stuff, not Atlantis Spaceship or Muspeilheim or Whirlwind. All of these are VERY conservative maps that don't risk any new features except the 3gas base on Atlantis. I want to see some maps that use innovation but account for the metagame strategies and balance.
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Why would you even think of getting rid of ohana D: Family sticks together.
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Given the TvP stats that were released about Cloud Kingdom I can't believe it's still in the pool at the moment. But then, Metalopolis lasted quite a while despite having similar (though not quite as bad) stats for TvZ. Maybe Terrans just don't complain about maps enough.
Condemned Ridge needs to go. Taldarim too. Some of the others I'm not a huge fan of, but I don't really mind one way or the other.
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On July 20 2012 01:15 Dzerzhinsky wrote:
Given the TvP stats that were released about Cloud Kingdom I can't believe it's still in the pool at the moment. But then, Metalopolis lasted quite a while despite having similar (though not quite as bad) stats for TvZ. Maybe Terrans just don't complain about maps enough.
Condemned Ridge needs to go. Taldarim too. Some of the others I'm not a huge fan of, but I don't really mind one way or the other.
If you read the comments, you'll find that Cloud Kingdom is actually very well balanced at the pro level. The ladder stats mean practically nothing since its bronze-GM on all servers. Check TLPD:
TvZ: 247-275 (47.3%) | ZvP: 337-296 (53.2%) | PvT: 246-221 (52.7%)
Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/510_ESV_Cloud_Kingdom/games
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Dishonorable discharge: TDA, Shakuras
Honorable discharge: Antiga (or make cross pos only)
Add: Metropolis, Atlantis, Muspelheim
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Tal'darim needs to go. Lots of new maps out there that our good, just replace it with one of those.
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A lot of the maps have been in too long. Each map should last a season, maybe two; but then be brought back in a couple seasons later. The map pool always feels stale after a while, and I think it would help the meta-game as a whole to introduce a wider variety of new maps. It is kind of hard to say which maps I would take out, as the ones that have been in there longest are generally the maps I hate the least for TvZ or TvP. Either way, give me new blood so laddering doesn't feel quite so old.
Take out 4 add 4? Or is that too many?
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I am suprised people still want Cloud Kingdom, or as protoss call it "I love ramp". That map has so many choke points with ramps that is is mind blowing. And the whole center, which is high ground for protoss to rain down storms.
Tal'darim could go to. There are parts I like about the map, but it is old as dirt.
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On July 19 2012 15:40 Timetwister22 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 15:36 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 19 2012 14:57 jcroisdale wrote:On July 19 2012 14:55 Enzymatic wrote:On July 19 2012 14:54 Ruscour wrote:
How Tal'darim ended up with 51% winrates in every matchup I will never ever know. I suppose if you balance out a large amount of terrible design decisions things kinda work out? TDA, Shakuras, Entombed and Antiga all need to take a hike imo, I dunno why every tournament jumped on the Entombed bandwagon, it seems like every time Blizzard releases maps tournaments just use the least terrible one even though there are far superior community maps. Are you a Zerg player, by chance? Im a protoss and agree with this 100% these maps are just plain awful, Anitga is the most unfair pvt map in the pool. Obviously you're forgetting the 70% Protoss ladder win rate in TvP on Cloud Kingdom. Yes, but that takes into consideration of all leagues, including broze-diamond...which doesn't really matter at all. Show us the stats for master-pro and it's most likely a different story.
on TLPD map stats terran has 50.3% win on antiga, protoss has 52.7% on cloud kingdom.
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On July 20 2012 00:50 Gosi wrote:
Anyone else missing how they used different map pools every season in like Proleague? It was refreshing and it was a really good system I think. I hope a team like ESV partner up with OGN unless their own map team put up quality maps and then they use the same system in the coming sc2 Proleagues.
Because is it one thing I really hate about the current state of sc2 it have to be the map situation. It's just way to many maps that are staying in relevant map pools waaaaaay to long because there is o many different tournaments and leagues going on all the time.
Sure, on ladder in BW there are maps that have been played for fucking forever but now when Blizzard has full control over the ladder you would think they could like have season rotation on specific map pools or something to mix it up. Not have fucking Tal Darim July 2012.
there's alot of things you'd think blizzard would do ...
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On July 19 2012 16:48 MarcusRife wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 16:31 Hypemeup wrote:
I cant help but think how bad it would be for Terrans if most of these maps were removed. 8)
But I would really like to see some of the new GSL maps in there, whirlwind and shit. Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 16:43 VPCursed wrote:
Terran needs antiga, for the love of fucking god don't get rid of it Before you say removing x map is bad for Terran or have a knee jerk reaction, doesn't it matter what the map will be replaced with? For instance if a map similar to Antiga Shipyard that was designed better replaces it then would there be a problem? There could be entirely new gameplay experiences you are missing out on. The opportunity cost of keeping bad maps is high for you. I know there are better maps out there that very few know about.
Yes, because I'd much rather see this new map replace one of the shittier ones that I hate 
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I wouldn't mind adding Metropolis back into the pool. I really hope we don't get Whirlwind or Atlantis Spaceship, though. Those maps are just really annoying.
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TDA and shakuras are too old.
Daybreak si too heavily imbalanced.
A map that reach 60% winrate for a race over more than 300 games should not be praised.
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On July 20 2012 01:17 monitor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 01:15 Dzerzhinsky wrote:
Given the TvP stats that were released about Cloud Kingdom I can't believe it's still in the pool at the moment. But then, Metalopolis lasted quite a while despite having similar (though not quite as bad) stats for TvZ. Maybe Terrans just don't complain about maps enough.
Condemned Ridge needs to go. Taldarim too. Some of the others I'm not a huge fan of, but I don't really mind one way or the other. If you read the comments, you'll find that Cloud Kingdom is actually very well balanced at the pro level. The ladder stats mean practically nothing since its bronze-GM on all servers. Check TLPD: TvZ: 247-275 (47.3%) | ZvP: 337-296 (53.2%) | PvT: 246-221 (52.7%) Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/510_ESV_Cloud_Kingdom/games
I read the comments, and I agreed with those pointing out that pro stats and ladder stats are different things.
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On July 20 2012 00:50 Gosi wrote:
Anyone else missing how they used different map pools every season in like Proleague? It was refreshing and it was a really good system I think. I hope a team like ESV partner up with OGN unless their own map team put up quality maps and then they use the same system in the coming sc2 Proleagues.
Kespa had their own Korean mapmaking team in BW and they'll likely have that as well in SC2. I saw one of the Korean mapmakers make SC2 maps some months ago already. You can expect good things coming from them very soon Also smaller map pools fuck yea!
ESV however can only hope they can work together with GSL in the long run. Because as I see the future right now, it will be Kespa maps, GSL maps and Blizzard maps (I hope not) that are relevant in the future, so it's like in BW. If you don't have direct contact to the Koreans or if there isn't another TLMC, foreign mapmakers have no chance to get their maps anywhere.
(then again, foreign mapmakers don't have a chance to get their maps into the global map rotation now as well. TLMC really was the only thing that achieved that)
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On July 20 2012 02:00 Shiori wrote:
I wouldn't mind adding Metropolis back into the pool. I really hope we don't get Whirlwind or Atlantis Spaceship, though. Those maps are just really annoying.
I would be perfectly fine if the just change antiga shipyard to be cross spawns only, which would make it much more balanced in my eyes.
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Shakuras needs to go just because of pvz, there's no way for protoss to have a reliable 3rd choke. TDA needs to go because of rocks at third and no ramp. I'm okay with condemned. Antiga needs cross only and no golds.
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All maps should go. I like ohana, cloud kingdom, etc but I just want new stuff to play on. Seeing the gsl maps makes me happy, but then sad at the same time.
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If any maps are going to be replaced, I just hope atlantis spaceship and whirlwind aren't added.
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EPT
