The Summer Arena will kick off this Season's broadcasts in style on July 20-22, as we bring you three days of top-level StarCraft II live from our studio in NYC. This Season's event will feature everything the Arenas are known for: spectacular matches, superior casting, incredibly high production value on the streams, and a totally customizable viewing experience. This time, though, we're adding something new to the mix.
Watch the Main Arena Stream Free!
We're incredibly pleased to announce that, thanks to Full Sail University, we will be offering the Main StarCraft II Arena stream free in standard definition for the very first time! Help us thank our partner and recognize their generosity by registering here to learn more about Full Sail.
The Arena will consist of three streams: The Main Stream, Premium Stream, and Dr Pepper Stream. Everything but the Premium stream will be free in standard definition. An HD upgrade will be available to watch all streams in up to full 1080p without ads, get access to the Premium stream, and get DVR functionality on all streams so that you can rewind and watch matches you missed. We'll be announcing upgrade pricing options later today.
Broadcast Schedule
Friday, July 20: 21:00 GMT (+00:00) - 03:00 GMT (+00:00) Saturday, July 21: 16:00 GMT (+00:00) - 01:00 GMT (+00:00) Sunday, July 22: 16:00 GMT (+00:00) - 01:30 GMT (+00:00)
A more detailed schedule will be released before the event.
The Casters
For Summer, we've lined up an all-star group of casters, including some faces you'll be accustomed to seeing at Arenas, and some old friends who we're incredibly happy to have back. Casters for the Summer Arena will be Artosis, djWheat, Day9, Apollo, and Mr Bitter.
The Players
We have invited the Spring Championship Top 8, along with the winners from each of the Regional Invite-Only Qualifiers. (In the event that a player could not attend, the next highest finishing player was invited). It's a fantastic mix of Pro Circuit veterans and players who will be hitting the Arena for the first time, which should make for some incredible action. Our 32 invited Arena players are:
*Leenock cannot attend the SC2 Arena. Grubby will takes his spot in the Spring Championship Top 8 and Tefel will fill Grubby's EU qualifying spot.
It's going to be an incredible weekend of StarCraft II. Check back this afternoon to find out how to upgrade to the full experience, and join us at Friday, Jul 20 9:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) as it all begins!
So if Slayers/Fnatic/FXO make it to the GSTL semis, I take it their players will withdraw? Or are they bound to stay? Too bad its the same weekend, missing a bunch of sweet players from TSL. And I wonder why no MKP, I guess he thinks he'll have Code A shortly after?
sweet Artosis without Tasteless! don't get me wrong, i love Nick, but i think it's gonna be interesting to see Dan cast with other people. would especially love an Artosis/Apollo and Daytosis cast.
On July 11 2012 02:21 Gorlin wrote: So if Slayers/Fnatic/FXO make it to the GSTL semis, I take it their players will withdraw? Or are they bound to stay? Too bad its the same weekend, missing a bunch of sweet players from TSL. And I wonder why no MKP, I guess he thinks he'll have Code A shortly after?
MKP have Code A, OSL and WCS at same time... don't think he can make it.
An arena without 1 of DRG or MKP just doesn't have the same ring to it. Sad about all the scheduling conflicts for them, especially MKP. Also odd to see no tasteless. What is this blasphemy of breaking up tastosis?! However, happy to see Day9 back in action!
Wow I haven't seen Top play in such a long time. Seems like he disappeared off the face of the earth since getting annihilated by MVP in the GSL finals.
So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG but this is the weakest line up of players yet
Mayme the first arena I'm going to care about. The Championships were really disappointing, I hope the Terrans will find a way to compete until at least the Semis.
It'll be interesting to see how the Koreans not in the GSL top 10 (and not living abroad) choose between this and the WCS offline preliminaries. A lot of attention is given to MKP's situation, but this affects more than just him.
Edit: so I guess the guys listed aren't trying WCS? (other than the ones who may be in the top 10)
On July 11 2012 02:46 Xacez wrote: For some reason I would expect an American tournament to focus on players from America, but as it turns out I would be wrong.
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG but this is the weakest line up of players yet
Wait it's my understanding that these guys were able to qualify for this Arena but just didn't get through the qualifiers right? The same thing happened with TSL qualifiers, what the public perceives as "best" might be true if they played 100 games, but the line dividing top tier and "next best" is very very thin.
People tend to forget that StarCraft is a much more non-static field than traditional games, favorites win 70% of the time is good. In these super competitive fields upsets happen. DRG and MKP haven't qualified for TSL either despite playing multiple times in the qualifiers. It happens.
Claiming a field of players who actually beat those guys is "weak" is just irresponsible. Yeah, they might have the same name recognition as the three you listed (debatable for Symbol) but to say the field is strong or weak based on the presence of just one or two players who have more name value is not fair at all to MLG or the players who went through a very difficult Korean qualification process.
What do you want MLG to do, just constantly invite the same two guys? Honestly, that was a big complaint about their format before and they changed it. It's a product of the difficult Korean field. Be excited that there are so many good players able to challenge others.
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG buat this is the weakest line up of players yet
Depending on dropouts and such they may get seeded further into the open bracket. What is mlg supposed to do here dude? They are skipping MLG, they cant just bend the rules for DRG. Taeja is in the round of 8 and is going to the arena. Its not impossible.
And even though this is there "weakest lineup yet" it still smashes pretty much every other tournaments line up.
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG but this is the weakest line up of players yet
Wait it's my understanding that these guys were able to qualify for this Arena but just didn't get through the qualifiers right? The same thing happened with TSL qualifiers, what the public perceives as "best" might be true if they played 100 games, but the line dividing top tier and "next best" is very very thin.
People tend to forget that StarCraft is a much more non-static field than traditional games, favorites win 70% of the time is good. In these super competitive fields upsets happen. DRG and MKP haven't qualified for TSL either despite playing multiple times in the qualifiers. It happens.
Claiming a field of players who actually beat those guys is "weak" is just irresponsible. Yeah, they might have the same name recognition as the three you listed (debatable for Symbol) but to say the field is strong or weak based on the presence of just one or two players who have more name value is not fair at all to MLG or the players who went through a very difficult Korean qualification process.
What do you want MLG to do, just constantly invite the same two guys? Honestly, that was a big complaint about their format before and they changed it. It's a product of the difficult Korean field. Be excited that there are so many good players able to challenge others.
Well mkp and drg were qualified cause top 8 at Anaheim. Not sure where symbol finished
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG but this is the weakest line up of players yet
Wait it's my understanding that these guys were able to qualify for this Arena but just didn't get through the qualifiers right? The same thing happened with TSL qualifiers, what the public perceives as "best" might be true if they played 100 games, but the line dividing top tier and "next best" is very very thin.
People tend to forget that StarCraft is a much more non-static field than traditional games, favorites win 70% of the time is good. In these super competitive fields upsets happen. DRG and MKP haven't qualified for TSL either despite playing multiple times in the qualifiers. It happens.
Claiming a field of players who actually beat those guys is "weak" is just irresponsible. Yeah, they might have the same name recognition as the three you listed (debatable for Symbol) but to say the field is strong or weak based on the presence of just one or two players who have more name value is not fair at all to MLG or the players who went through a very difficult Korean qualification process.
Hot bid I love you, but the thing is DRG and MKP were qualified for the arena but cant attend because of GSL and OSL. I was saying these guys qualified and can't go because they are playing in two better tournaments. I understand you are mad because Taeja and Hero are in it an I said I was a weak field, and yes they are probably two of the favorites, but it's weaker than normal.
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG but this is the weakest line up of players yet
Wait it's my understanding that these guys were able to qualify for this Arena but just didn't get through the qualifiers right? The same thing happened with TSL qualifiers, what the public perceives as "best" might be true if they played 100 games, but the line dividing top tier and "next best" is very very thin.
People tend to forget that StarCraft is a much more non-static field than traditional games, favorites win 70% of the time is good. In these super competitive fields upsets happen. DRG and MKP haven't qualified for TSL either despite playing multiple times in the qualifiers. It happens.
Claiming a field of players who actually beat those guys is "weak" is just irresponsible. Yeah, they might have the same name recognition as the three you listed (debatable for Symbol) but to say the field is strong or weak based on the presence of just one or two players who have more name value is not fair at all to MLG or the players who went through a very difficult Korean qualification process.
What do you want MLG to do, just constantly invite the same two guys? Honestly, that was a big complaint about their format before and they changed it. It's a product of the difficult Korean field. Be excited that there are so many good players able to challenge others.
They were qualified, but couldn't make to Arena due to conflicts. As the result they'd have to go through open brackets if they want attend Championship.
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG buat this is the weakest line up of players yet
Depending on dropouts and such they may get seeded further into the open bracket. What is mlg supposed to do here dude? They are skipping MLG, they cant just bend the rules for DRG. Taeja is in the round of 8 and is going to the arena. Its not impossible.
And even though this is there "weakest lineup yet" it still smashes pretty much every other tournaments line up.
2 arenas like last time? Im not mad at MLG, I'm just saying its stupid how 2 out of the top 3 of your spring champs. Will be in open next event
I think if you got top 4 in the previous championship, you should be invited to the next championship. The arenas take too much time off the very top players.
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG buat this is the weakest line up of players yet
Depending on dropouts and such they may get seeded further into the open bracket. What is mlg supposed to do here dude? They are skipping MLG, they cant just bend the rules for DRG. Taeja is in the round of 8 and is going to the arena. Its not impossible.
And even though this is there "weakest lineup yet" it still smashes pretty much every other tournaments line up.
2 arenas like last time? Im not mad at MLG, I'm just saying its stupid how 2 out of the top 3 of your spring champs. Will be in open next event
Well then... I guess it's their own fault for going somewhere else instead? If somebody didn't attend GSL, they'd have to requalify as well. If a team leaves a sports league and re-enters a year later, they have to go all the way back to the top by playing, there's no invites to that and that's fine with me.
On July 11 2012 03:00 neoghaleon55 wrote: I think if you got top 4 in the previous championship, you should be invited to the next championship. The arenas take too much time off the very top players.
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG buat this is the weakest line up of players yet
Depending on dropouts and such they may get seeded further into the open bracket. What is mlg supposed to do here dude? They are skipping MLG, they cant just bend the rules for DRG. Taeja is in the round of 8 and is going to the arena. Its not impossible.
And even though this is there "weakest lineup yet" it still smashes pretty much every other tournaments line up.
2 arenas like last time? Im not mad at MLG, I'm just saying its stupid how 2 out of the top 3 of your spring champs. Will be in open next event
LOL its not stupid, they are separate seasons. You don't get a playoffs spot for winning the super bowl the previous year
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG buat this is the weakest line up of players yet
Depending on dropouts and such they may get seeded further into the open bracket. What is mlg supposed to do here dude? They are skipping MLG, they cant just bend the rules for DRG. Taeja is in the round of 8 and is going to the arena. Its not impossible.
And even though this is there "weakest lineup yet" it still smashes pretty much every other tournaments line up.
2 arenas like last time? Im not mad at MLG, I'm just saying its stupid how 2 out of the top 3 of your spring champs. Will be in open next event
LOL its not stupid, they are separate seasons. You don't get a playoffs spot for winning the super bowl the previous year
On July 11 2012 03:00 neoghaleon55 wrote: I think if you got top 4 in the previous championship, you should be invited to the next championship. The arenas take too much time off the very top players.
Us DRG fans are sad
*pat pat it's ok, we already gave him a shirt last weekend. He knows how much we care. <3
International events and Korean events are starting to conflict, which makes it harder for Koreans to attend international events, and easier for international players to make it to the top of these events and stay there. With both OSL and GSL going on, plus Pro League when that gets started, and GSTL, it's going to be busy for a lot of the top Korean players.
For Summer, we've lined up an all-star group of casters, including some faces you'll be accustomed to seeing at Arenas, and some old friends who we're incredibly happy to have back. Casters for the Summer Arena will be Artosis, djWheat, Day9, Apollo, and Mr Bitter.
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG buat this is the weakest line up of players yet
Depending on dropouts and such they may get seeded further into the open bracket. What is mlg supposed to do here dude? They are skipping MLG, they cant just bend the rules for DRG. Taeja is in the round of 8 and is going to the arena. Its not impossible.
And even though this is there "weakest lineup yet" it still smashes pretty much every other tournaments line up.
2 arenas like last time? Im not mad at MLG, I'm just saying its stupid how 2 out of the top 3 of your spring champs. Will be in open next event
LOL its not stupid, they are separate seasons. You don't get a playoffs spot for winning the super bowl the previous year
Those are two completely different things.
Actually they aren't. Spring and summer are different mlg seasons. Just like different football seasons
On July 11 2012 03:06 Azarkon wrote: International events and Korean events are starting to conflict, which makes it harder for Koreans to attend international events, and easier for international players to make it to the top of these events and stay there. With both OSL and GSL going on, plus Pro League when that gets started, and GSTL, it's going to be busy for a lot of the top Korean players.
I'm so scared that KeSPA joining SC2 has/will ruin the involvement of Korean players in international competition due to schedule conflicts.
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG but this is the weakest line up of players yet
Wait it's my understanding that these guys were able to qualify for this Arena but just didn't get through the qualifiers right? The same thing happened with TSL qualifiers, what the public perceives as "best" might be true if they played 100 games, but the line dividing top tier and "next best" is very very thin.
People tend to forget that StarCraft is a much more non-static field than traditional games, favorites win 70% of the time is good. In these super competitive fields upsets happen. DRG and MKP haven't qualified for TSL either despite playing multiple times in the qualifiers. It happens.
Claiming a field of players who actually beat those guys is "weak" is just irresponsible. Yeah, they might have the same name recognition as the three you listed (debatable for Symbol) but to say the field is strong or weak based on the presence of just one or two players who have more name value is not fair at all to MLG or the players who went through a very difficult Korean qualification process.
Hot bid I love you, but the thing is DRG and MKP were qualified for the arena but cant attend because of GSL and OSL. I was saying these guys qualified and can't go because they are playing in two better tournaments. I understand you are mad because Taeja and Hero are in it an I said I was a weak field, and yes they are probably two of the favorites, but it's weaker than normal.
I am frankly getting very tired of people accusing Liquid bias every time I state an opinion about things. I feel that it is possible for me to cheer for players while remaining impartial in analysis, you don't have to yell "you work for TL therefore your opinion is discounted." It's very tiring and such a disrespectful thing to do every time. The very fact that our TSL is open qualifiers and not invite should speak to the lack of bias toward Liquid guys, if we wanted to we could just invite most of the Liquid team but we didn't. But here, where there's no real impact except for arguing against someone on the internet, I'm too offended because you're insulting a field that includes a few Liquid guys? Come on.
MLG created a format that requires attendance to their events, and created an incentive for players to show up to them. They separated seasons so this could happen. This was a big complaint about their format last time (same players staying in pools) and they listened to the feedback and changed. Yes, it is unfortunate that scheduling conflicts happened and the two biggest name guys aren't coming. However, in general fans put way too much value into name and disrespect just how tight and cutthroat the Korean scene is when it comes to skill level. One or two names does not break the overall skill of the field. It appears it does impact the perception of the skill of the field, but I suppose that's just something that we'll have to accept since fans overvalue big names.
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG buat this is the weakest line up of players yet
Depending on dropouts and such they may get seeded further into the open bracket. What is mlg supposed to do here dude? They are skipping MLG, they cant just bend the rules for DRG. Taeja is in the round of 8 and is going to the arena. Its not impossible.
And even though this is there "weakest lineup yet" it still smashes pretty much every other tournaments line up.
2 arenas like last time? Im not mad at MLG, I'm just saying its stupid how 2 out of the top 3 of your spring champs. Will be in open next event
LOL its not stupid, they are separate seasons. You don't get a playoffs spot for winning the super bowl the previous year
Those are two completely different things.
Actually they aren't. Spring and summer are different mlg seasons. Just like different football seasons
If you want to relate this to football which is stupid, I'll tell you what it's like. DrG is the giants, MkP is the 49ers. DRG just won the Super Bowl and MKP lost in the NFC finals. Well say that the arena is like the regular season and the top 16 in the regular season get into the division round of the playoffs (seeds at raleigh.) the giants and 49ers cant play in the regular season and are forced to be at a major disadvantage in the playoffs (play in the wild card game or open bracket) the giants and 49ers are clearly better than 90% of the population of the regular season on a bad day.
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG but this is the weakest line up of players yet
Wait it's my understanding that these guys were able to qualify for this Arena but just didn't get through the qualifiers right? The same thing happened with TSL qualifiers, what the public perceives as "best" might be true if they played 100 games, but the line dividing top tier and "next best" is very very thin.
People tend to forget that StarCraft is a much more non-static field than traditional games, favorites win 70% of the time is good. In these super competitive fields upsets happen. DRG and MKP haven't qualified for TSL either despite playing multiple times in the qualifiers. It happens.
Claiming a field of players who actually beat those guys is "weak" is just irresponsible. Yeah, they might have the same name recognition as the three you listed (debatable for Symbol) but to say the field is strong or weak based on the presence of just one or two players who have more name value is not fair at all to MLG or the players who went through a very difficult Korean qualification process.
Hot bid I love you, but the thing is DRG and MKP were qualified for the arena but cant attend because of GSL and OSL. I was saying these guys qualified and can't go because they are playing in two better tournaments. I understand you are mad because Taeja and Hero are in it an I said I was a weak field, and yes they are probably two of the favorites, but it's weaker than normal.
I am frankly getting very tired of people accusing Liquid bias every time I state an opinion about things. I feel that it is possible for me to cheer for players while remaining impartial in analysis, you don't have to yell "you work for TL therefore your opinion is discounted." It's very tiring and such a disrespectful thing to do every time. The very fact that our TSL is open qualifiers and not invite should speak to the lack of bias toward Liquid guys, if we wanted to we could just invite most of the Liquid team but we didn't. But here, where there's no real impact except for arguing against someone on the internet, I'm too offended because you're insulting a field that includes a few Liquid guys? Come on.
MLG created a format that requires attendance to their events, and created an incentive for players to show up to them. They separated seasons so this could happen. This was a big complaint about their format last time and they listened to the feedback and changed. Yes, it is unfortunate that scheduling conflicts happened and the two biggest name guys aren't coming. However, in general fans put way too much value into name and disrespect just how tight and cutthroat the Korean scene is when it comes to skill level. One or two names does not break the overall skill of the field. It appears it does impact the perception of the skill of the field, but I suppose that's just something that we'll have to accept since fans overvalue big names.
Well if you did that, nobody would take tsl4 seriously so you didn't have much of a choice. And I never said your opinion was discounted, I actually believe the opposite, that it's more than most everybody here, I just thought you were mad because I called a field with the two best liquid guys "weaker." I apologize. And I'm only really saying this because of how big of a DRG fan I am, not that these players aren't good, but DRG is the most successful player of 2012 and MKp is probably second and neither of them not being here, for sure lowers the skill level. But it will be nice to see games from players I don't often see. EDIT: I'm typing this in iPhone so sorry for errors lol, it's hard to type for long periods of time on.
On July 11 2012 03:20 Fionn wrote: Wonder why Polt isn't going. Maybe he realized that to get back into Code S he needs to focus in Korea for a while?
Probably WCS. Every korean except the top 10 in GSL points has to qualify for WCS. Only hero and taeja are in top 10 out of this arena list, which means every korean there will be skipping WCS qualifiers, if this is a confirmed list.
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG but this is the weakest line up of players yet
Wait it's my understanding that these guys were able to qualify for this Arena but just didn't get through the qualifiers right? The same thing happened with TSL qualifiers, what the public perceives as "best" might be true if they played 100 games, but the line dividing top tier and "next best" is very very thin.
People tend to forget that StarCraft is a much more non-static field than traditional games, favorites win 70% of the time is good. In these super competitive fields upsets happen. DRG and MKP haven't qualified for TSL either despite playing multiple times in the qualifiers. It happens.
Claiming a field of players who actually beat those guys is "weak" is just irresponsible. Yeah, they might have the same name recognition as the three you listed (debatable for Symbol) but to say the field is strong or weak based on the presence of just one or two players who have more name value is not fair at all to MLG or the players who went through a very difficult Korean qualification process.
Hot bid I love you, but the thing is DRG and MKP were qualified for the arena but cant attend because of GSL and OSL. I was saying these guys qualified and can't go because they are playing in two better tournaments. I understand you are mad because Taeja and Hero are in it an I said I was a weak field, and yes they are probably two of the favorites, but it's weaker than normal.
I am frankly getting very tired of people accusing Liquid bias every time I state an opinion about things. I feel that it is possible for me to cheer for players while remaining impartial in analysis, you don't have to yell "you work for TL therefore your opinion is discounted." It's very tiring and such a disrespectful thing to do every time. The very fact that our TSL is open qualifiers and not invite should speak to the lack of bias toward Liquid guys, if we wanted to we could just invite most of the Liquid team but we didn't. But here, where there's no real impact except for arguing against someone on the internet, I'm too offended because you're insulting a field that includes a few Liquid guys? Come on.
MLG created a format that requires attendance to their events, and created an incentive for players to show up to them. They separated seasons so this could happen. This was a big complaint about their format last time and they listened to the feedback and changed. Yes, it is unfortunate that scheduling conflicts happened and the two biggest name guys aren't coming. However, in general fans put way too much value into name and disrespect just how tight and cutthroat the Korean scene is when it comes to skill level. One or two names does not break the overall skill of the field. It appears it does impact the perception of the skill of the field, but I suppose that's just something that we'll have to accept since fans overvalue big names.
Well if you did that, nobody would take tsl4 seriously so you didn't have much of a choice. And I never said your opinion was discounted, I actually believe the opposite, that it's more than most everybody here, I just thought you were mad because I called a field with the two best liquid guys "weaker." I apologize. And I'm only really saying this because of how big of a DRG fan I am, not that these players aren't good, but DRG is the most successful player of 2012 and MKp is probably second and neither of them not being here, for sure lowers the skill level. But it will be nice to see games from players I don't often see.
I don't like this attitude. Just because DRG/MKP were the most successful of 2012 with respect to the sum of their achievements doesn't mean that they're the best players or even a level above everyone else. MKP isn't exactly tearing up GSL right now and DRG has a pretty big rival in Symbol. There are a lot of players in Korea who could give DRG/MKP a serious run for their money on any given day. They just haven't won as much this year, yet.
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG buat this is the weakest line up of players yet
Depending on dropouts and such they may get seeded further into the open bracket. What is mlg supposed to do here dude? They are skipping MLG, they cant just bend the rules for DRG. Taeja is in the round of 8 and is going to the arena. Its not impossible.
And even though this is there "weakest lineup yet" it still smashes pretty much every other tournaments line up.
2 arenas like last time? Im not mad at MLG, I'm just saying its stupid how 2 out of the top 3 of your spring champs. Will be in open next event
LOL its not stupid, they are separate seasons. You don't get a playoffs spot for winning the super bowl the previous year
Those are two completely different things.
Actually they aren't. Spring and summer are different mlg seasons. Just like different football seasons
The winners of the FIBA World Championship get a seed into the Olympic basketball tournament two years later. Up until 2002, the reigning FIFA World Cup champions got a direct seed into the next World Cup Finals tournament. It all depends on what the organizers want to do.
there's a reason why these guys were able to qualify. there is no need to be concerned about the skill level of anybody that made it through the Korean and to a certain extent even the European qualifiers. and it's an american event so there's gonna be Americans there.
i agree it's a little unfortunate that players like DRG and MKP won't be able to attend, but you can watch them play in so many tournaments all the time you'll be able to get your fix of them. matter of fact, the reason they can't attend is of course because they have other tournaments going on around the same time, so you can still watch them play on MLG weekend if you wish to do so. in the meantime, MLG will give a number of other badasses of comparable skill level - some of which we haven't seen a lot of lately - the chance to show their play. really looking forward to seeing Top back in action for example.
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG but this is the weakest line up of players yet
Wait it's my understanding that these guys were able to qualify for this Arena but just didn't get through the qualifiers right? The same thing happened with TSL qualifiers, what the public perceives as "best" might be true if they played 100 games, but the line dividing top tier and "next best" is very very thin.
People tend to forget that StarCraft is a much more non-static field than traditional games, favorites win 70% of the time is good. In these super competitive fields upsets happen. DRG and MKP haven't qualified for TSL either despite playing multiple times in the qualifiers. It happens.
Claiming a field of players who actually beat those guys is "weak" is just irresponsible. Yeah, they might have the same name recognition as the three you listed (debatable for Symbol) but to say the field is strong or weak based on the presence of just one or two players who have more name value is not fair at all to MLG or the players who went through a very difficult Korean qualification process.
Hot bid I love you, but the thing is DRG and MKP were qualified for the arena but cant attend because of GSL and OSL. I was saying these guys qualified and can't go because they are playing in two better tournaments. I understand you are mad because Taeja and Hero are in it an I said I was a weak field, and yes they are probably two of the favorites, but it's weaker than normal.
I am frankly getting very tired of people accusing Liquid bias every time I state an opinion about things. I feel that it is possible for me to cheer for players while remaining impartial in analysis, you don't have to yell "you work for TL therefore your opinion is discounted." It's very tiring and such a disrespectful thing to do every time. The very fact that our TSL is open qualifiers and not invite should speak to the lack of bias toward Liquid guys, if we wanted to we could just invite most of the Liquid team but we didn't. But here, where there's no real impact except for arguing against someone on the internet, I'm too offended because you're insulting a field that includes a few Liquid guys? Come on.
MLG created a format that requires attendance to their events, and created an incentive for players to show up to them. They separated seasons so this could happen. This was a big complaint about their format last time and they listened to the feedback and changed. Yes, it is unfortunate that scheduling conflicts happened and the two biggest name guys aren't coming. However, in general fans put way too much value into name and disrespect just how tight and cutthroat the Korean scene is when it comes to skill level. One or two names does not break the overall skill of the field. It appears it does impact the perception of the skill of the field, but I suppose that's just something that we'll have to accept since fans overvalue big names.
Well if you did that, nobody would take tsl4 seriously so you didn't have much of a choice. And I never said your opinion was discounted, I actually believe the opposite, that it's more than most everybody here, I just thought you were mad because I called a field with the two best liquid guys "weaker." I apologize. And I'm only really saying this because of how big of a DRG fan I am, not that these players aren't good, but DRG is the most successful player of 2012 and MKp is probably second and neither of them not being here, for sure lowers the skill level. But it will be nice to see games from players I don't often see.
I don't like this attitude. Just because DRG/MKP were the most successful of 2012 with respect to the sum of their achievements doesn't mean that they're the best players or even a level above everyone else. MKP isn't exactly tearing up GSL right now and DRG has a pretty big rival in Symbol. There are a lot of players in Korea who could give DRG/MKP a serious run for their money on any given day. They just haven't won as much this year, yet.
At MLg alone, which obviously this is an MLG, you can't argue they have been by far the two best MLg players for the past 4 out of 5 MLGs
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG but this is the weakest line up of players yet
Wait it's my understanding that these guys were able to qualify for this Arena but just didn't get through the qualifiers right? The same thing happened with TSL qualifiers, what the public perceives as "best" might be true if they played 100 games, but the line dividing top tier and "next best" is very very thin.
People tend to forget that StarCraft is a much more non-static field than traditional games, favorites win 70% of the time is good. In these super competitive fields upsets happen. DRG and MKP haven't qualified for TSL either despite playing multiple times in the qualifiers. It happens.
Claiming a field of players who actually beat those guys is "weak" is just irresponsible. Yeah, they might have the same name recognition as the three you listed (debatable for Symbol) but to say the field is strong or weak based on the presence of just one or two players who have more name value is not fair at all to MLG or the players who went through a very difficult Korean qualification process.
Hot bid I love you, but the thing is DRG and MKP were qualified for the arena but cant attend because of GSL and OSL. I was saying these guys qualified and can't go because they are playing in two better tournaments. I understand you are mad because Taeja and Hero are in it an I said I was a weak field, and yes they are probably two of the favorites, but it's weaker than normal.
I am frankly getting very tired of people accusing Liquid bias every time I state an opinion about things. I feel that it is possible for me to cheer for players while remaining impartial in analysis, you don't have to yell "you work for TL therefore your opinion is discounted." It's very tiring and such a disrespectful thing to do every time. The very fact that our TSL is open qualifiers and not invite should speak to the lack of bias toward Liquid guys, if we wanted to we could just invite most of the Liquid team but we didn't. But here, where there's no real impact except for arguing against someone on the internet, I'm too offended because you're insulting a field that includes a few Liquid guys? Come on.
MLG created a format that requires attendance to their events, and created an incentive for players to show up to them. They separated seasons so this could happen. This was a big complaint about their format last time and they listened to the feedback and changed. Yes, it is unfortunate that scheduling conflicts happened and the two biggest name guys aren't coming. However, in general fans put way too much value into name and disrespect just how tight and cutthroat the Korean scene is when it comes to skill level. One or two names does not break the overall skill of the field. It appears it does impact the perception of the skill of the field, but I suppose that's just something that we'll have to accept since fans overvalue big names.
Well if you did that, nobody would take tsl4 seriously so you didn't have much of a choice. And I never said your opinion was discounted, I actually believe the opposite, that it's more than most everybody here, I just thought you were mad because I called a field with the two best liquid guys "weaker." I apologize. And I'm only really saying this because of how big of a DRG fan I am, not that these players aren't good, but DRG is the most successful player of 2012 and MKp is probably second and neither of them not being here, for sure lowers the skill level. But it will be nice to see games from players I don't often see.
I don't like this attitude. Just because DRG/MKP were the most successful of 2012 with respect to the sum of their achievements doesn't mean that they're the best players or even a level above everyone else. MKP isn't exactly tearing up GSL right now and DRG has a pretty big rival in Symbol. There are a lot of players in Korea who could give DRG/MKP a serious run for their money on any given day. They just haven't won as much this year, yet.
It just so happens that Taeja, who knocked both MKP and DRG out of GSL over the course of the last two seasons and HerO, who just 5-2d DRG are here! I personally love to see lesser known players in action and I sure as hell won't complain about HerO and Taeja being there.
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG buat this is the weakest line up of players yet
Depending on dropouts and such they may get seeded further into the open bracket. What is mlg supposed to do here dude? They are skipping MLG, they cant just bend the rules for DRG. Taeja is in the round of 8 and is going to the arena. Its not impossible.
And even though this is there "weakest lineup yet" it still smashes pretty much every other tournaments line up.
2 arenas like last time? Im not mad at MLG, I'm just saying its stupid how 2 out of the top 3 of your spring champs. Will be in open next event
LOL its not stupid, they are separate seasons. You don't get a playoffs spot for winning the super bowl the previous year
Those are two completely different things.
Actually they aren't. Spring and summer are different mlg seasons. Just like different football seasons
If you want to relate this to football which is stupid, I'll tell you what it's like. DrG is the giants, MkP is the 49ers. DRG just won the Super Bowl and MKP lost in the NFC finals. Well say that the arena is like the regular season and the top 16 in the regular season get into the division round of the playoffs (seeds at raleigh.) the giants and 49ers cant play in the regular season and are forced to be at a major disadvantage in the playoffs (play in the wild card game or open bracket) the giants and 49ers are clearly better than 90% of the population of the regular season on a bad day.
You are trying to make the formats same, which is not what I'm saying. I'm saying how being in a championship one season shouldn't mean you are in a championship the next season. Like any sport. MLG did that last year, everyone hated it.
DRG and MKP are more than good enough to go through the open bracket. And if they lose there, thats there fault, not MLG's. They chose GSL/OSL over MLG. Why the hell would MLG say, oh thats ok we are still going to seed you into our championship? Thats stupid.
On July 11 2012 03:20 Fionn wrote: Wonder why Polt isn't going. Maybe he realized that to get back into Code S he needs to focus in Korea for a while?
Probably WCS. Every korean except the top 10 in GSL points has to qualify for WCS. Only hero and taeja are in top 10 out of this arena list, which means every korean there will be skipping WCS qualifiers, if this is a confirmed list.
I'm much more certain that it's because of GSTL semis, which is the same weekend. Same reason why most other TSL guys declined (Revival still going for some reason).
On July 11 2012 02:45 jobber123rd wrote: It's GoldenLighT, not Light.Golden
It'll be interesting to see how the Koreans not in the GSL top 10 (and not living abroad) choose between this and the WCS offline preliminaries. A lot of attention is given to MKP's situation, but this affects more than just him.
Edit: so I guess the guys listed aren't trying WCS? (other than the ones who may be in the top 10)
The names are what they've signed up to MLG as, not their handles.
It's kinda sad that 4 out of 6 "NA" players are American, the other 2 are Koreans... I wonder why the NA scene is lacking in quality compared to Europe or Korea. Well, I don't wonder about Korea, but still. Illusion fighting! I guess.
Looks like an awesome lineup as always, arena games are usually awesome due to less nerves affecting gameplay created by the crowds. And I don't have to pay this time.
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG but this is the weakest line up of players yet
Wait it's my understanding that these guys were able to qualify for this Arena but just didn't get through the qualifiers right? The same thing happened with TSL qualifiers, what the public perceives as "best" might be true if they played 100 games, but the line dividing top tier and "next best" is very very thin.
People tend to forget that StarCraft is a much more non-static field than traditional games, favorites win 70% of the time is good. In these super competitive fields upsets happen. DRG and MKP haven't qualified for TSL either despite playing multiple times in the qualifiers. It happens.
Claiming a field of players who actually beat those guys is "weak" is just irresponsible. Yeah, they might have the same name recognition as the three you listed (debatable for Symbol) but to say the field is strong or weak based on the presence of just one or two players who have more name value is not fair at all to MLG or the players who went through a very difficult Korean qualification process.
Hot bid I love you, but the thing is DRG and MKP were qualified for the arena but cant attend because of GSL and OSL. I was saying these guys qualified and can't go because they are playing in two better tournaments. I understand you are mad because Taeja and Hero are in it an I said I was a weak field, and yes they are probably two of the favorites, but it's weaker than normal.
I am frankly getting very tired of people accusing Liquid bias every time I state an opinion about things. I feel that it is possible for me to cheer for players while remaining impartial in analysis, you don't have to yell "you work for TL therefore your opinion is discounted." It's very tiring and such a disrespectful thing to do every time. The very fact that our TSL is open qualifiers and not invite should speak to the lack of bias toward Liquid guys, if we wanted to we could just invite most of the Liquid team but we didn't. But here, where there's no real impact except for arguing against someone on the internet, I'm too offended because you're insulting a field that includes a few Liquid guys? Come on.
MLG created a format that requires attendance to their events, and created an incentive for players to show up to them. They separated seasons so this could happen. This was a big complaint about their format last time and they listened to the feedback and changed. Yes, it is unfortunate that scheduling conflicts happened and the two biggest name guys aren't coming. However, in general fans put way too much value into name and disrespect just how tight and cutthroat the Korean scene is when it comes to skill level. One or two names does not break the overall skill of the field. It appears it does impact the perception of the skill of the field, but I suppose that's just something that we'll have to accept since fans overvalue big names.
Well if you did that, nobody would take tsl4 seriously so you didn't have much of a choice. And I never said your opinion was discounted, I actually believe the opposite, that it's more than most everybody here, I just thought you were mad because I called a field with the two best liquid guys "weaker." I apologize. And I'm only really saying this because of how big of a DRG fan I am, not that these players aren't good, but DRG is the most successful player of 2012 and MKp is probably second and neither of them not being here, for sure lowers the skill level. But it will be nice to see games from players I don't often see.
I don't like this attitude. Just because DRG/MKP were the most successful of 2012 with respect to the sum of their achievements doesn't mean that they're the best players or even a level above everyone else. MKP isn't exactly tearing up GSL right now and DRG has a pretty big rival in Symbol. There are a lot of players in Korea who could give DRG/MKP a serious run for their money on any given day. They just haven't won as much this year, yet.
It just so happens that Taeja, who knocked both MKP and DRG out of GSL over the course of the last two seasons and HerO, who just 5-2d DRG are here! I personally love to see lesser known players in action and I sure as hell won't complain about HerO and Taeja being there.
Yes I know there are a lot of good players here, I never questioned that, I also said that I like seeing players I can't see as often, I just said this is the weakest player line up at an MLG because MC,DRG, MKP, Symbol, and others like that, won't be attending and I just thought that since DRG won and MKP got third and both have been dominating MLG all year. That its funny they don't have a choice but to play from open. But there isn't really anything that can be done, conflicts happen
On July 11 2012 02:46 Xacez wrote: For some reason I would expect an American tournament to focus on players from America, but as it turns out I would be wrong.
So you want to see worse games?
And the reason why Americans are not performing that well is because the American scene does not care about them. So the reason why we would get to see worse games is because there is no major Tournament organization in the States that care about growing up new American progamers.
I think it sucks that NA has the highest number of participants but received the fewest number of spots. There were about 55 people vying for just 6 spots , while EU had 17 people playing for 9. I think theres something inherrently wrong with that.
MLGs reason is that NA players perform worse, but Violet won last Arena and he came from NA. I think it sucks for NA players who did well and cant get a chance to play here.
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG buat this is the weakest line up of players yet
Depending on dropouts and such they may get seeded further into the open bracket. What is mlg supposed to do here dude? They are skipping MLG, they cant just bend the rules for DRG. Taeja is in the round of 8 and is going to the arena. Its not impossible.
And even though this is there "weakest lineup yet" it still smashes pretty much every other tournaments line up.
2 arenas like last time? Im not mad at MLG, I'm just saying its stupid how 2 out of the top 3 of your spring champs. Will be in open next event
LOL its not stupid, they are separate seasons. You don't get a playoffs spot for winning the super bowl the previous year
Those are two completely different things.
Actually they aren't. Spring and summer are different mlg seasons. Just like different football seasons
If you want to relate this to football which is stupid, I'll tell you what it's like. DrG is the giants, MkP is the 49ers. DRG just won the Super Bowl and MKP lost in the NFC finals. Well say that the arena is like the regular season and the top 16 in the regular season get into the division round of the playoffs (seeds at raleigh.) the giants and 49ers cant play in the regular season and are forced to be at a major disadvantage in the playoffs (play in the wild card game or open bracket) the giants and 49ers are clearly better than 90% of the population of the regular season on a bad day.
You are trying to make the formats same, which is not what I'm saying. I'm saying how being in a championship one season shouldn't mean you are in a championship the next season. Like any sport. MLG did that last year, everyone hated it.
DRG and MKP are more than good enough to go through the open bracket. And if they lose there, thats there fault, not MLG's. They chose GSL/OSL over MLG. Why the hell would MLG say, oh thats ok we are still going to seed you into our championship? Thats stupid.
On July 11 2012 02:46 Xacez wrote: For some reason I would expect an American tournament to focus on players from America, but as it turns out I would be wrong.
So you want to see worse games?
And the reason why Americans are not performing that well is because the American scene does not care about them. So the reason why we would get to see worse games is because there is no major Tournament organization in the States that care about growing up new American progamers.
No I do care about them, but Koreans fr the most part are better, an I like seeing better games
I don't know why anyone would call that bracket "weak". Only because some of the big names are missing doesn't mean the koreans there are bad. Especially because most of the went through the qualifiers and beat players like MMA or Nestea who attempted to qualify but failed. Apart from this the foreigner lineup looks ver strong with players like Stephano and Nerchio in there. Players who can compete with the GSL-elite. I very much look forward to this event. Some newer names both from the foreigner and as well as the korean scene and players like IPL4-winner Alive or Nerchio. This tournament is very hard to predict and that makes it exciting.
On July 11 2012 02:46 Xacez wrote: For some reason I would expect an American tournament to focus on players from America, but as it turns out I would be wrong.
So you want to see worse games?
And the reason why Americans are not performing that well is because the American scene does not care about them. So the reason why we would get to see worse games is because there is no major Tournament organization in the States that care about growing up new American progamers.
No I do care about them, but Koreans fr the most part are better, an I like seeing better games
Although I like to watch good games, I would like to see leagues support NA more. It is annoying as hell that they just have fewer spots in the arena. Beyond MGL and NASL, there are few major tournaments in the NA and all of them out of their way to pull in as many Koreans as possible. How is a better local scene supposed to develope if all the leagues are just pulling players from over seas for all their events?
On July 11 2012 03:32 Xeris wrote: I think it sucks that NA has the highest number of participants but received the fewest number of spots. There were about 55 people vying for just 6 spots , while EU had 17 people playing for 9. I think theres something inherrently wrong with that.
MLGs reason is that NA players perform worse, but Violet won last Arena and he came from NA. I think it sucks for NA players who did well and cant get a chance to play here.
blehhh!
I wouldn't really use Violet as an example of NA doing well at MLG
On July 11 2012 02:46 Xacez wrote: For some reason I would expect an American tournament to focus on players from America, but as it turns out I would be wrong.
So you want to see worse games?
And the reason why Americans are not performing that well is because the American scene does not care about them. So the reason why we would get to see worse games is because there is no major Tournament organization in the States that care about growing up new American progamers.
No I do care about them, but Koreans fr the most part are better, an I like seeing better games
Although I like to watch good games, I would like to see leagues support NA more. It is annoying as hell that they just have fewer spots in the arena. Beyond MGL and NASL, there are few major tournaments in the NA and all of them out of their way to pull in as many Koreans as possible. How is a better local scene supposed to develope if all the leagues are just pulling players from over seas for all their events?
It's very hard to balance star power and opportunities for new players. Remember what the guys from DreamHack said about not having Greg Fields at their tournament (state of the game Episode 67), viewership from North America plummeted.
Personally, this is the same reason I don't watch dreamhack or Homestory, I don't care about those players.
I just liked the two arenas. We got a 2v2 tournament and the top 8 from winter had a 50% chance of gettin a seed, which as you can tell from my precious posts, I like
sweet, looking forward to it! i hope that artosis is gonna cast with day... it will be the analytical overkill (in a good way) xD but why is tasteless not there!?! now i can't wear my "tasteless homeboy" t-shirt :/
On July 11 2012 03:32 Xeris wrote: I think it sucks that NA has the highest number of participants but received the fewest number of spots. There were about 55 people vying for just 6 spots , while EU had 17 people playing for 9. I think theres something inherrently wrong with that.
MLGs reason is that NA players perform worse, but Violet won last Arena and he came from NA. I think it sucks for NA players who did well and cant get a chance to play here.
blehhh!
I blame the dumb qualifying format they use for the arenas for low turnouts from the EU/KR because it's still not really an open qualifier. I think I have this right. The people in the main arena qualifiers are based on the top 9-80 from past MLG and they're separated into the NA/EU/KR main arena qualifier.
Now of those players very few of those would be EU/KR because it cost too much to attend MLG, therefore most of the top 9-80 are NA players, which really tilts the NA main arena qualifier into having a lot more players compared to the EU/KR qualifiers.
Then they run their open arena qualifier to add between 8-10 people more per region to the existing top 9-80 spread across 3 regional qualifiers. This makes it so you can't get a high turnout for the EU/KR main qualifiers because they already started with a small number of players and the max that can be added to it is 8-10 players. I think this way of qualifying is very bad and if they want to run open qualifiers, they should make it truly open and not semi open.
On July 11 2012 03:32 Xeris wrote: I think it sucks that NA has the highest number of participants but received the fewest number of spots. There were about 55 people vying for just 6 spots , while EU had 17 people playing for 9. I think theres something inherrently wrong with that.
MLGs reason is that NA players perform worse, but Violet won last Arena and he came from NA. I think it sucks for NA players who did well and cant get a chance to play here.
On July 11 2012 03:51 TommyP wrote: I just liked the two arenas. We got a 2v2 tournament and the top 8 from winter had a 50% chance of gettin a seed, which as you can tell from my precious posts, I like
MLG likes more Arenas, too...but for different games. Spring had two SC2 Arenas, Summer has one SC2 and one LoL, and Fall will have one SC2, one LoL, and one Fighting Games Arena.
Edit: Didn't notice that there's a Summer Fighting Arena as well... >_>
On July 11 2012 03:32 Xeris wrote: I think it sucks that NA has the highest number of participants but received the fewest number of spots. There were about 55 people vying for just 6 spots , while EU had 17 people playing for 9. I think theres something inherrently wrong with that.
MLGs reason is that NA players perform worse, but Violet won last Arena and he came from NA. I think it sucks for NA players who did well and cant get a chance to play here.
blehhh!
Highly disagree with you on NA needing more spots. The only NA player who has performed good in MLG the last few seasons is Violet, and as HotBid said you can really argue whether you should count him as indicative of the NA Scene.
If you for example look at the Spring Arena 2 you had 8 people qualify through the NA Qualifiers: IdrA, Sleep, Mook, SeleCT, HuK, Rain, Killer and Violet. With the exception of Violet all of them placed in the bottom 16.
Take a look at the Winter Arena: NA had Ddoro, SaSe, Axslav, Minigun, Drewbie, DeMuslim, DDe and Sheth qualify. With the exception of DeMuslim every single one of those placed in the bottom 16.
Another example: TSL4 Qualifiers. In the first eight qualifiers you had one win from a North American: Beastyqt. He however falls under the exact same category as Violet; in fact I feel you shouldn't count him as a North American even more then Violet. On points you get another two players (SeleCT and Sheth) but that only gives you 3 out of 16 spots to be divided between Europe and North America.
The big reason that there are so many people vying for NA spots in the invite only qualifier against compared to EU is that a lot more NA people qualify for those due to finishing top 80 in a championship event. Those events are a lot easier for NA players to attend and when they perform decently they get an invite to the arena qualifiers. EU players that don't have the ability to get sent to a MLG Championship event have to fight it out in the brutal open qualifier to hope to earn one of the 8 spots to qualify for the next set of qualifiers.
Just to recap. Winter Arena: 8 qualifiers from NA, 7 in the bottom 16. Spring Arena 2: 8 qualifiers from NA, 7 in the bottom 16; only exception is doubtfully a real NA player. TSL4 Qualifers (as of Qualifier 8): 3 out of 16 spots; all others go to Europe.
I guess with a lot of foreign championships starting to conflict with the Korean ones we might see more Korean teams establishing some "foreign" sorts of teams, like, players that are really, really good, but for some whatever reason fail to win games in GSL/OSL.
On July 11 2012 03:32 Xeris wrote: I think it sucks that NA has the highest number of participants but received the fewest number of spots. There were about 55 people vying for just 6 spots , while EU had 17 people playing for 9. I think theres something inherrently wrong with that.
MLGs reason is that NA players perform worse, but Violet won last Arena and he came from NA. I think it sucks for NA players who did well and cant get a chance to play here.
blehhh!
I wouldn't really use Violet as an example of NA doing well at MLG
At face value that seems reasonable, but there was a long period about one year ago that HuK's success was held as evidence of the superiority of the Korean training style, a comparison that I think held an amount of validity. HuK had been training there for approximately as long as Violet's been in NA. HuK's situation before the move has a parallel to Violet's situation *after* the move. Those two situations are very close, though obviously not exact, parallels. Of course, Violet's success would be indicative of the strength of the NA training strategy, not of NA players.
At that point, the question becomes what criterion we are using to determine what region a player belongs to. The SeleCT principle, in a way. Birth? 'I know it when I see it?' Self-identification? Violet's not a perfect, or even particularly good, example for NA success, but it's not cut-and-dry a terrible example.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, I should note. Just trying to make the logical underpinnings of the argument clear.
On July 11 2012 03:32 Xeris wrote: I think it sucks that NA has the highest number of participants but received the fewest number of spots. There were about 55 people vying for just 6 spots , while EU had 17 people playing for 9. I think theres something inherrently wrong with that.
MLGs reason is that NA players perform worse, but Violet won last Arena and he came from NA. I think it sucks for NA players who did well and cant get a chance to play here.
blehhh!
I wouldn't really use Violet as an example of NA doing well at MLG
At face value that seems reasonable, but there was a long period about one year ago that HuK's success was held as evidence of the superiority of the Korean training style, a comparison that I think held an amount of validity. HuK had been training there for approximately as long as Violet's been in NA. HuK's situation before the move has a parallel to Violet's situation *after* the move. Those two situations are very close, though obviously not exact, parallels. Of course, Violet's success would be indicative of the strength of the NA training strategy, not of NA players.
At that point, the question becomes what criterion we are using to determine what region a player belongs to. The SeleCT principle, in a way. Birth? 'I know it when I see it?' Self-identification? Violet's not a perfect, or even particularly good, example for NA success, but it's not cut-and-dry a terrible example.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, I should note. Just trying to make the logical underpinnings of the argument clear.
The thing is, even if Violet won the last Arena, that doesn't magically make NA have more than 6 player's that can compete with the 9 best EU/KR players.
Edit: Also, in terms of regional qualifiers, I'd say using the region a player lives in to be the region he's representing.
On July 11 2012 03:32 Xeris wrote: I think it sucks that NA has the highest number of participants but received the fewest number of spots. There were about 55 people vying for just 6 spots , while EU had 17 people playing for 9. I think theres something inherrently wrong with that.
MLGs reason is that NA players perform worse, but Violet won last Arena and he came from NA. I think it sucks for NA players who did well and cant get a chance to play here.
blehhh!
I wouldn't really use Violet as an example of NA doing well at MLG
At face value that seems reasonable, but there was a long period about one year ago that HuK's success was held as evidence of the superiority of the Korean training style, a comparison that I think held an amount of validity. HuK had been training there for approximately as long as Violet's been in NA. HuK's situation before the move has a parallel to Violet's situation *after* the move. Those two situations are very close, though obviously not exact, parallels. Of course, Violet's success would be indicative of the strength of the NA training strategy, not of NA players.
At that point, the question becomes what criterion we are using to determine what region a player belongs to. The SeleCT principle, in a way. Birth? 'I know it when I see it?' Self-identification? Violet's not a perfect, or even particularly good, example for NA success, but it's not cut-and-dry a terrible example.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, I should note. Just trying to make the logical underpinnings of the argument clear.
Just a quick check; hasn't HuK been living in Korea for about 18 months now whereas violet came to NA in October (after he got knocked out of GSL) and has already returned?
As to how to label a player: I would rate them on where their country of residence is; with the added point that I feel someone "keeps their old label" for about 6 months before trading it in for their new one. For example I would rate TargA as a SEA player, SeleCT as an NA player but BeastyQT as European player and Violet as a Korean one. The only case in which I feel that my method is lackluster is with foreigners going to Korea. While they improve a lot from going there they don't get to rise to the top of that scene which makes it a lot harder to call them Korean.
The only point I feel that is wrong with these qualifiers is that they are too open. I feel that the qualifiers should be properly region locked like the IEM and IPL qualifiers.
Even though the NA scene is doing pretty bad it doesn't help that their MLG Arena spots have been taken by people who only chose NA because the qualifier was so easy; for example SaSe at the Winter Arena and Killer and Mook at the Spring Arena 2.
On July 11 2012 02:42 TommyP wrote: So basically for summer championship, The best players in the world (DRG,mkp,symbol,etc) are going to have to play through open bracket just because they qualified for a more prestigious tournament and these guys didn't? I love MLG but this is the weakest line up of players yet
Wait it's my understanding that these guys were able to qualify for this Arena but just didn't get through the qualifiers right? The same thing happened with TSL qualifiers, what the public perceives as "best" might be true if they played 100 games, but the line dividing top tier and "next best" is very very thin.
People tend to forget that StarCraft is a much more non-static field than traditional games, favorites win 70% of the time is good. In these super competitive fields upsets happen. DRG and MKP haven't qualified for TSL either despite playing multiple times in the qualifiers. It happens.
Claiming a field of players who actually beat those guys is "weak" is just irresponsible. Yeah, they might have the same name recognition as the three you listed (debatable for Symbol) but to say the field is strong or weak based on the presence of just one or two players who have more name value is not fair at all to MLG or the players who went through a very difficult Korean qualification process.
What do you want MLG to do, just constantly invite the same two guys? Honestly, that was a big complaint about their format before and they changed it. It's a product of the difficult Korean field. Be excited that there are so many good players able to challenge others.
No offense Hot_Bid, but you of all people should know playing online and offline tournaments are two completely different ball games. Those players that have been mentioned by TommyP are some of the best LAN event tournament players in the world, and there's no getting around it. Throughout all season, they've either won the tournament or placed at least in the top 8. Not having them in MLGs (supposedly the premier american LAN event) is a hit no matter how you look at it.
I'm not disregarding the fact that the so called "next best" can contend for a championship. viOLet won the last arena. It will happen from time to time. But recent history has shown us that having the top-tier players in a competition enhances its competitiveness and results greatly.
At that point, the question becomes what criterion we are using to determine what region a player belongs to.
Ahh, that's an easy one! Anybody that isn't a direct descendant of Sitting Bull, isn't a true american! Rumors have it that Sitting Bull was never good at starcraft, that's why NA players don't manage to win more.
To the comment about DRG and MKP not being there: I don't think it lowers the skill level of the tournament, but I think it could lower the -perceived- skill level of the tournament. High profile players make tournaments look more competitive, when in reality, in places like the Korean scene, the top groups are very very fragile. Just look at GSL top 8... I think the ONLY people who repeated Ro8 are Taeja and Naniwa (was MC in Ro8 last season?) MVP, the GSL winner, was knocked out. MKP didn't even make it. But people rate someone like MKP higher than someone like Taeja because he has more exposure in foreign tournaments than somebody like Taeja who does consistently better in the GSL.
To them not being seeded and it being "bad" or anything, it wouldn't make any sense. If MVP won GSL (He did), but hadn't participated this season, he would by no means deserve a seed back into Code S the season after that, based on his previous performance/success. (And MVP is more successful than either MKP or DRG if you go by overall consistency)
Imo, I'm very excited for the new spring arena... Taeja fighting :D
On July 11 2012 03:32 Xeris wrote: I think it sucks that NA has the highest number of participants but received the fewest number of spots. There were about 55 people vying for just 6 spots , while EU had 17 people playing for 9. I think theres something inherrently wrong with that.
MLGs reason is that NA players perform worse, but Violet won last Arena and he came from NA. I think it sucks for NA players who did well and cant get a chance to play here.
blehhh!
I can only echo what the previous posters said, the only reason we even talk about this is because the format MLG uses is incredibly stupid, it discourages not only competition, it also prevents existing skilled players from participating in Arenas and MLGs and in turn lowers the skill level of competitors at the events.
If you're halfway decent and get into an Arena once, you have almost a free pass to the next few events, because new good players only get into the invite only qualifiers very, very slowly.
In the last qualifier, the system resulted in the ridiculous scenario of seventeen players (in reality fifteen players, two of them didn't even show up) fighting for nine spots and paid trips. You show up, win two BO3s, maybe just one, if you're lucky with a walkover, and you're qualified for what's supposed to be a really prestigeous event.
The system works for NA because NA players attend the MLG events and play in the open bracket, so there's like 50 of them in the top 80. You can't honestly expect that from EU players.
Just make a really open qualifier, seed the Arena players into later rounds if you have to, but please raise the amount of players allowed to participate, so there's a bit of pressure on the other guys.
And announce the dates earlier for god's sake, even the "open online qualifiers" were not really a success because so few people actually had time to play in them.
Really excited to see top actually. I've always thought he was a solid player. Hope he makes some splashes and get the attention of a team. He's really a steal.
Sick, cannot wait! (Need to take a day-off from work on Monday again, though -.-)
Korean quals dont look so stacked, the same with European one. Too bad a lot of people in Europe are good enough to take games/series off of top people in Europe, but (probably) not good enough to take 2-3 GSL level koreans in a row. Rooting for every one of them though!
GSTL semifinals -- part of his "once in a career" chance to go to the individual and team league finals on consecutive days in his hometown. I think that's more important to him.
it'll be interesting to see if illusion can make another impressive run or if he'll get knocked out kind of early as happened at that 4 man IPL event. Either way, amazing caster list. Day9 back, apollo, wheat, bitter, artosis. Should be some amazing dual casts going on there!!!
GSTL semifinals -- part of his "once in a career" chance to go to the individual and team league finals on consecutive days in his hometown. I think that's more important to him.
Plus DRG has OSL also on top of everything else. With GSTL, GSL, and OSL..He got a full plate.
On July 11 2012 02:46 Xacez wrote: For some reason I would expect an American tournament to focus on players from America, but as it turns out I would be wrong.
For some reason, I expected a business to focus on players people actually care about, and not give undue exposure or preference to players from certain demographics or geographical locations. I mean, Illusion, IdrA, Incontrol, Huk if you're being charitable, who else really is there from america who really pulls crowds?
On July 11 2012 02:54 DarkLordOlli wrote: THANK YOU for making it free. Believe me, I would buy a pass if I could but that's pretty hard living outside of the US without a credit card.
Really? I've used paypal from my bank account just fine for every previous event.
On July 11 2012 02:46 Xacez wrote: For some reason I would expect an American tournament to focus on players from America, but as it turns out I would be wrong.
For some reason, I expected a business to focus on players people actually care about, and not give undue exposure or preference to players from certain demographics or geographical locations. I mean, Illusion, IdrA, Incontrol, Huk if you're being charitable, who else really is there from america who really pulls crowds?
isnt that exactly what dream hack does. don't really see why MLG can't so it
On July 11 2012 02:46 Xacez wrote: For some reason I would expect an American tournament to focus on players from America, but as it turns out I would be wrong.
For some reason, I expected a business to focus on players people actually care about, and not give undue exposure or preference to players from certain demographics or geographical locations. I mean, Illusion, IdrA, Incontrol, Huk if you're being charitable, who else really is there from america who really pulls crowds?
Destiny also pulls crowds, however he also pulls in a lot of people that don't understand the words 18+ private explicit stream and therefore hate him.
On July 11 2012 02:46 Xacez wrote: For some reason I would expect an American tournament to focus on players from America, but as it turns out I would be wrong.
For some reason, I expected a business to focus on players people actually care about, and not give undue exposure or preference to players from certain demographics or geographical locations. I mean, Illusion, IdrA, Incontrol, Huk if you're being charitable, who else really is there from america who really pulls crowds?
Destiny also pulls crowds, however he also pulls in a lot of people that don't understand the words 18+ private explicit stream and therefore hate him.
I'm not sure destiny brings a tournament crowd as much as he has a large personal fanbase. Don't get me wrong, while I don't know much about Destiny, the interviews I've seen and posts I've read have shown him to be very astute, if a little cynical, and I like that, but I think he'd be the first to admit that tournament wise, nobody, not even him, expects him to go in and win outright, and While thats ok for homestory, it doesn't cut the mustard for an event like MLG which lives and dies on having the best players in the world as their main draw.
On July 11 2012 02:46 Xacez wrote: For some reason I would expect an American tournament to focus on players from America, but as it turns out I would be wrong.
For some reason, I expected a business to focus on players people actually care about, and not give undue exposure or preference to players from certain demographics or geographical locations. I mean, Illusion, IdrA, Incontrol, Huk if you're being charitable, who else really is there from america who really pulls crowds?
isnt that exactly what dream hack does. don't really see why MLG can't so it
Mainly, I wouldn't expect MLG to do it because unlike Dreamhack, who have a broad business model, and can afford to support up and comers because thats what people expect out of them, MLG, as discussion in this thread shows, engender a feeling of absolute superiority. They are, arguably, the most prestigious tournament outside of the GSL, in terms of how seriously people take the skills of people who do well or win. On the other hand, there are many more question marks over how good a dreamhack winner really is compared to top-level GSL pros, precisely because of the extra chances afforded to up and comers, in the public eye, seeming to "dilute" the tournament.
On July 11 2012 07:09 CptRusty wrote: SaSe?? Naniwa??
Naniwa said on these very forums, that he knows he's an underdog vs DRG in his next round of the GSL. I don't imagine he'll be looking to do anything but prepare for that match, until it happens. Naniwa is VERY driven to do well in the GSL, and all the more power to him, if it means foreigners are competing on the biggest Korean stages and holding their own.
On July 11 2012 03:32 Xeris wrote: I think it sucks that NA has the highest number of participants but received the fewest number of spots. There were about 55 people vying for just 6 spots , while EU had 17 people playing for 9. I think theres something inherrently wrong with that.
MLGs reason is that NA players perform worse, but Violet won last Arena and he came from NA. I think it sucks for NA players who did well and cant get a chance to play here.
blehhh!
Highly disagree with you on NA needing more spots. The only NA player who has performed good in MLG the last few seasons is Violet, and as HotBid said you can really argue whether you should count him as indicative of the NA Scene.
If you for example look at the Spring Arena 2 you had 8 people qualify through the NA Qualifiers: IdrA, Sleep, Mook, SeleCT, HuK, Rain, Killer and Violet. With the exception of Violet all of them placed in the bottom 16.
Take a look at the Winter Arena: NA had Ddoro, SaSe, Axslav, Minigun, Drewbie, DeMuslim, DDe and Sheth qualify. With the exception of DeMuslim every single one of those placed in the bottom 16.
Another example: TSL4 Qualifiers. In the first eight qualifiers you had one win from a North American: Beastyqt. He however falls under the exact same category as Violet; in fact I feel you shouldn't count him as a North American even more then Violet. On points you get another two players (SeleCT and Sheth) but that only gives you 3 out of 16 spots to be divided between Europe and North America.
The big reason that there are so many people vying for NA spots in the invite only qualifier against compared to EU is that a lot more NA people qualify for those due to finishing top 80 in a championship event. Those events are a lot easier for NA players to attend and when they perform decently they get an invite to the arena qualifiers. EU players that don't have the ability to get sent to a MLG Championship event have to fight it out in the brutal open qualifier to hope to earn one of the 8 spots to qualify for the next set of qualifiers.
Just to recap. Winter Arena: 8 qualifiers from NA, 7 in the bottom 16. Spring Arena 2: 8 qualifiers from NA, 7 in the bottom 16; only exception is doubtfully a real NA player. TSL4 Qualifers (as of Qualifier 8): 3 out of 16 spots; all others go to Europe.
there were many forfeits gotta keep that in consideration. I was one of them too.
On July 11 2012 07:17 Sryinex wrote: I sincerely hope the summer championship will have the big names that this arena doesn't.
Alicia, SaSe, Stephano, Leenock, Oz, Alive, Ganzi, Golden, Violet, Sheth, Illusion, qxc, Nerchio (Just won Homestory Cup), Grubby, HerO, Taeja, Ryung, Losira, Top, Rain, and Dream aren't enough big names for you? Thats a stacked as hell field right there.
And honestly, while I'm not familiar with most of the other names, they beat respectable competition to get here, so show them some respect.
On July 11 2012 03:32 Xeris wrote: I think it sucks that NA has the highest number of participants but received the fewest number of spots. There were about 55 people vying for just 6 spots , while EU had 17 people playing for 9. I think theres something inherrently wrong with that.
MLGs reason is that NA players perform worse, but Violet won last Arena and he came from NA. I think it sucks for NA players who did well and cant get a chance to play here.
blehhh!
Highly disagree with you on NA needing more spots. The only NA player who has performed good in MLG the last few seasons is Violet, and as HotBid said you can really argue whether you should count him as indicative of the NA Scene.
If you for example look at the Spring Arena 2 you had 8 people qualify through the NA Qualifiers: IdrA, Sleep, Mook, SeleCT, HuK, Rain, Killer and Violet. With the exception of Violet all of them placed in the bottom 16.
Take a look at the Winter Arena: NA had Ddoro, SaSe, Axslav, Minigun, Drewbie, DeMuslim, DDe and Sheth qualify. With the exception of DeMuslim every single one of those placed in the bottom 16.
Another example: TSL4 Qualifiers. In the first eight qualifiers you had one win from a North American: Beastyqt. He however falls under the exact same category as Violet; in fact I feel you shouldn't count him as a North American even more then Violet. On points you get another two players (SeleCT and Sheth) but that only gives you 3 out of 16 spots to be divided between Europe and North America.
The big reason that there are so many people vying for NA spots in the invite only qualifier against compared to EU is that a lot more NA people qualify for those due to finishing top 80 in a championship event. Those events are a lot easier for NA players to attend and when they perform decently they get an invite to the arena qualifiers. EU players that don't have the ability to get sent to a MLG Championship event have to fight it out in the brutal open qualifier to hope to earn one of the 8 spots to qualify for the next set of qualifiers.
Just to recap. Winter Arena: 8 qualifiers from NA, 7 in the bottom 16. Spring Arena 2: 8 qualifiers from NA, 7 in the bottom 16; only exception is doubtfully a real NA player. TSL4 Qualifers (as of Qualifier 8): 3 out of 16 spots; all others go to Europe.
there were many forfeits gotta keep that in consideration. I was one of them too.
Be that as may, It can't be missed that most of the players mentioned in that post aren't even american.
On July 11 2012 02:46 Xacez wrote: For some reason I would expect an American tournament to focus on players from America, but as it turns out I would be wrong.
An all protoss vs zerg tournament? Would be pretty interesting!
I think LosirA's going to kick some ass, personally. Certainly hoping so at least. And Sheth's going to go far as well, of that I'm confident. Seems like a decent group of players, going to be fun.
On July 11 2012 03:32 Xeris wrote: I think it sucks that NA has the highest number of participants but received the fewest number of spots. There were about 55 people vying for just 6 spots , while EU had 17 people playing for 9. I think theres something inherrently wrong with that.
MLGs reason is that NA players perform worse, but Violet won last Arena and he came from NA. I think it sucks for NA players who did well and cant get a chance to play here.
blehhh!
Highly disagree with you on NA needing more spots. The only NA player who has performed good in MLG the last few seasons is Violet, and as HotBid said you can really argue whether you should count him as indicative of the NA Scene.
If you for example look at the Spring Arena 2 you had 8 people qualify through the NA Qualifiers: IdrA, Sleep, Mook, SeleCT, HuK, Rain, Killer and Violet. With the exception of Violet all of them placed in the bottom 16.
Take a look at the Winter Arena: NA had Ddoro, SaSe, Axslav, Minigun, Drewbie, DeMuslim, DDe and Sheth qualify. With the exception of DeMuslim every single one of those placed in the bottom 16.
Another example: TSL4 Qualifiers. In the first eight qualifiers you had one win from a North American: Beastyqt. He however falls under the exact same category as Violet; in fact I feel you shouldn't count him as a North American even more then Violet. On points you get another two players (SeleCT and Sheth) but that only gives you 3 out of 16 spots to be divided between Europe and North America.
The big reason that there are so many people vying for NA spots in the invite only qualifier against compared to EU is that a lot more NA people qualify for those due to finishing top 80 in a championship event. Those events are a lot easier for NA players to attend and when they perform decently they get an invite to the arena qualifiers. EU players that don't have the ability to get sent to a MLG Championship event have to fight it out in the brutal open qualifier to hope to earn one of the 8 spots to qualify for the next set of qualifiers.
Just to recap. Winter Arena: 8 qualifiers from NA, 7 in the bottom 16. Spring Arena 2: 8 qualifiers from NA, 7 in the bottom 16; only exception is doubtfully a real NA player. TSL4 Qualifers (as of Qualifier 8): 3 out of 16 spots; all others go to Europe.
there were many forfeits gotta keep that in consideration. I was one of them too.
According to Liquipedia you lost that series in the lower bracket 1-2 to Sheth. Is that incorrect?
Hmm, would have love to seen a little bit less charged for Gold Members but the whole Gold Membership Deal rocks so it's alright, too bad i have exams and won't be able to view as much as i want
On July 11 2012 07:17 Sryinex wrote: I sincerely hope the summer championship will have the big names that this arena doesn't.
Alicia, SaSe, Stephano, Leenock, Oz, Alive, Ganzi, Golden, Violet, Sheth, Illusion, qxc, Nerchio (Just won Homestory Cup), Grubby, HerO, Taeja, Ryung, Losira, Top, Rain, and Dream aren't enough big names for you? Thats a stacked as hell field right there.
And honestly, while I'm not familiar with most of the other names, they beat respectable competition to get here, so show them some respect.
The only big names there are Stephano, Violet, TaeJa and Her0. Im sure he was talking about the biggest of the biggest names like DRG, MKP, MC,
On July 11 2012 03:32 Xeris wrote: I think it sucks that NA has the highest number of participants but received the fewest number of spots. There were about 55 people vying for just 6 spots , while EU had 17 people playing for 9. I think theres something inherrently wrong with that.
MLGs reason is that NA players perform worse, but Violet won last Arena and he came from NA. I think it sucks for NA players who did well and cant get a chance to play here.
blehhh!
Highly disagree with you on NA needing more spots. The only NA player who has performed good in MLG the last few seasons is Violet, and as HotBid said you can really argue whether you should count him as indicative of the NA Scene.
If you for example look at the Spring Arena 2 you had 8 people qualify through the NA Qualifiers: IdrA, Sleep, Mook, SeleCT, HuK, Rain, Killer and Violet. With the exception of Violet all of them placed in the bottom 16.
Take a look at the Winter Arena: NA had Ddoro, SaSe, Axslav, Minigun, Drewbie, DeMuslim, DDe and Sheth qualify. With the exception of DeMuslim every single one of those placed in the bottom 16.
Another example: TSL4 Qualifiers. In the first eight qualifiers you had one win from a North American: Beastyqt. He however falls under the exact same category as Violet; in fact I feel you shouldn't count him as a North American even more then Violet. On points you get another two players (SeleCT and Sheth) but that only gives you 3 out of 16 spots to be divided between Europe and North America.
The big reason that there are so many people vying for NA spots in the invite only qualifier against compared to EU is that a lot more NA people qualify for those due to finishing top 80 in a championship event. Those events are a lot easier for NA players to attend and when they perform decently they get an invite to the arena qualifiers. EU players that don't have the ability to get sent to a MLG Championship event have to fight it out in the brutal open qualifier to hope to earn one of the 8 spots to qualify for the next set of qualifiers.
Just to recap. Winter Arena: 8 qualifiers from NA, 7 in the bottom 16. Spring Arena 2: 8 qualifiers from NA, 7 in the bottom 16; only exception is doubtfully a real NA player. TSL4 Qualifers (as of Qualifier 8): 3 out of 16 spots; all others go to Europe.
there were many forfeits gotta keep that in consideration. I was one of them too.
According to Liquipedia you lost that series in the lower bracket 1-2 to Sheth. Is that incorrect?
nvm i thought he was talking about summer arena qualification
On July 11 2012 17:38 Pandemona wrote: OMG YOU INVITED TOP I LOVE MLG
Has nothing to do with invitations, TOP defeated Lure, Creator, Vampire, San, Shine, Revival and Rain to get there. Will be interesting to see him peform at the city, where he suffered his biggest defeat until now.
It would be nice if the different tournaments would get together and plan it out so they don't overlap. So many players won't be at this one due to other commitments.
Wow.. Soo many Koreans! :O I love the Koreans, but maybe it should have been balanced a bit more out :O Only Puma from EG, no idra, no incontroll, machine, huk or demuslim sad..
Would have loved to see some more, non korean guys
Going to watch anyways, but it is more entertaining to see some of the "personalities" of Starcraft 2.
I remembered Day9 and Artossis casting together. I remembered I liked it no less than Tastossis. Shame that we never saw the Plott brothers casting together.
On July 11 2012 20:00 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: I remembered Day9 and Artossis casting together. I remembered I liked it no less than Tastossis. Shame that we never saw the Plott brothers casting together.
I think I remember seeing once that they avoid doing that specifically, for some reason?
On July 11 2012 17:38 Pandemona wrote: OMG YOU INVITED TOP I LOVE MLG
Has nothing to do with invitations, TOP defeated Lure, Creator, Vampire, San, Shine, Revival and Rain to get there. Will be interesting to see him peform at the city, where he suffered his biggest defeat until now.
top is epic lately, got to the finals of the OSL qual haha
On July 11 2012 18:49 Emzor wrote: Wow.. Soo many Koreans! :O I love the Koreans, but maybe it should have been balanced a bit more out :O Only Puma from EG, no idra, no incontroll, machine, huk or demuslim sad..
Would have loved to see some more, non korean guys
Going to watch anyways, but it is more entertaining to see some of the "personalities" of Starcraft 2.
- Fantastic caster lineup!
I don't know what happened to them (other commitments or whatever else), but according to the results on liquipedia, it appears that Demuslim dropped out in the middle of the Open qualifiers, and IdrA & iNcontroL both no-showed the Invite qualifier. Huk lost to Xenocider and IceCream in the Invite qualifier to finish 13th-16th (only the top six made it to the Arena). Even if the Arena seeds had been distributed 10/10/10 among the regions (+the Anaheim finalists to make 32 total), none of them would have made it.
The next players in line for seeds from the NA qualifier (if the seeds were balanced 8/8/8 + 8) would have been LgN.giX and Caliber[LighT].
On July 11 2012 03:20 Fionn wrote: Wonder why Polt isn't going. Maybe he realized that to get back into Code S he needs to focus in Korea for a while?
Probably WCS. Every korean except the top 10 in GSL points has to qualify for WCS. Only hero and taeja are in top 10 out of this arena list, which means every korean there will be skipping WCS qualifiers, if this is a confirmed list.
I'm much more certain that it's because of GSTL semis, which is the same weekend. Same reason why most other TSL guys declined (Revival still going for some reason).
You're correct. TSL is in the top 4 for GSTL and unfortunately, it happens to overlap with MLG arena. (it makes me want to cry...) RevivaL is going to represent TSL He's a fantastic player and I hope he gets to receive the spotlight!
I'm so excited that GoldenLighT qualified. Freaked out when I found outttt<3
Goody replaces Nerchio according to MLG's twitter.
Didn't really expect Nerchio to actually travel to the US, still sad, though, I'd have loved to see whether he could do well there. EU lineup gets more and more disappointing, hopefully the new faces will show some awesome games and results.
On July 12 2012 05:39 StarVe wrote: Goody replaces Nerchio according to MLG's twitter.
Didn't really expect Nerchio to actually travel to the US, still sad, though, I'd have loved to see whether he could do well there. EU lineup gets more and more disappointing, hopefully the new faces will show some awesome games and results.
I will never understand what goes on in that childs mind.
Awesome opportunity to break into the international scene, especially with his recent results, and he turns it down. I hope he has a really good reason :/
On July 12 2012 05:39 StarVe wrote: Goody replaces Nerchio according to MLG's twitter.
Didn't really expect Nerchio to actually travel to the US, still sad, though, I'd have loved to see whether he could do well there. EU lineup gets more and more disappointing, hopefully the new faces will show some awesome games and results.
I will never understand what goes on in that childs mind.
Awesome opportunity to break into the international scene, especially with his recent results, and he turns it down. I hope he has a really good reason :/
On July 12 2012 03:42 jtp118 wrote: no MKP or DRG? extremely odd
DRG will be trying to bring MVP to his hometown for the GSTL finals, and MKP has his ODT group (and likely the WCS Korea preliminaries before that as well).
On July 12 2012 05:20 Bigtony wrote: Has it been announced what the gold/premium is? I remember when Sundance announced the new model he said there would be something.
On July 12 2012 05:39 StarVe wrote: Goody replaces Nerchio according to MLG's twitter.
Didn't really expect Nerchio to actually travel to the US, still sad, though, I'd have loved to see whether he could do well there. EU lineup gets more and more disappointing, hopefully the new faces will show some awesome games and results.
Aww man. Nerchio's not coming? That's extremely disappointing.
as i only liked the arotsis part on tastosis im kinda happy to just have artosis in the caster line-up which i find quite amazing, for me the best Caster line-up possible
Gooday as a replacment i dont think he has any shot for a real high placement but he is tricky with his mech play and has "weid" unexpected build which could catch some players offguard but in the end he cant really compete for the top at this stacked field. Anyways i wish him the best of luck
On July 12 2012 05:39 StarVe wrote: Goody replaces Nerchio according to MLG's twitter.
Didn't really expect Nerchio to actually travel to the US, still sad, though, I'd have loved to see whether he could do well there. EU lineup gets more and more disappointing, hopefully the new faces will show some awesome games and results.
I will never understand what goes on in that childs mind.
Awesome opportunity to break into the international scene, especially with his recent results, and he turns it down. I hope he has a really good reason :/
visa issue i think
That is quite possible, poland is not covered by the visa exemption program.
Hahaha, just when Asus ROG announced their thing. MLG responds like within an hour with an announcement of their own. So this was what they were talking about on the 2GD show :D:DD
On July 12 2012 08:37 namste wrote: Hahaha, just when Asus ROG announced their thing. MLG responds like within an hour with an announcement of their own. So this was what they were talking about on the 2GD show :D:DD
On July 12 2012 12:59 Shantastic wrote: Oooooooooh maybe some Daytosis? Real excited at the chance of that! Pity we won't be seeing DRG or MKP, but hopefully they'll be in Raleigh.
I'd rather see them meet in the WCS Korea finals (but MKP would have to get through the qualifers first).
Sad to see MKP and DRG won't be there, like most people, but now some other players will have a chance! I'm really looking forward to watching, as I have a premium subscription or whatever. Watch ALL the streams in HD xD
On July 11 2012 02:21 Gorlin wrote: So if Slayers/Fnatic/FXO make it to the GSTL semis, I take it their players will withdraw? Or are they bound to stay? Too bad its the same weekend, missing a bunch of sweet players from TSL. And I wonder why no MKP, I guess he thinks he'll have Code A shortly after?
MLG have been doing this ever since their fallout with GSL. They have scheduled a ton of things during important GSL dates. Its really dumb and now they're making players choose. boo!
Wouldn't be surprised to see Ryung/Leenock not going since they are vital to their team's chances at making the finals. Alicia has been on a foreign tear lately and even if he stayed in Korea, could probably be the fourth Toss in the depth chart with Puzzle/JYP and maybe Crank who Slayers has huge confidence in.
On July 15 2012 17:33 Fionn wrote: Wouldn't be surprised to see Ryung/Leenock not going since they are vital to their team's chances at making the finals. Alicia has been on a foreign tear lately and even if he stayed in Korea, could probably be the fourth Toss in the depth chart with Puzzle/JYP and maybe Crank who Slayers has huge confidence in.
Who would take Leenock's spot if/when he withdraws? The lowest Anaheim finishers who are currently in the Arena based on their results there are aLive and GanZi. The players who finished in the same spot as them were MC (who was likely asked about the spot already and had to pass it up due to GSL) and Grubby (who made it into the Arena already through the European Invite-Only Online Qualifier). The next tier of finishers below them (listed in order of seed, because I don't know the number of "MLG Points" they have to break ties) was:
Ryung (already in through KR IOOQ) Socke (registered for, but no-showed EU IOOQ) Rain (already in through KR IOOQ) Golden (already in through NA IOOQ)
If Socke can't make it, the next tier is:
viOLet (already in through NA IOOQ) Dream (already in through KR IOOQ) ThorZaIN (possible GSTL and/or Code A commitments; didn't attempt EU IOOQ) Lucky (his team is in GSTL semi-final match)
Do we know if there's going to be some sort of barcraft in NYC for this? I haven't seen anything in the barcraft section or TL community. Didn't know if MLG had a place on lockdown for a Barcraft or not.
On July 15 2012 17:33 Fionn wrote: Wouldn't be surprised to see Ryung/Leenock not going since they are vital to their team's chances at making the finals. Alicia has been on a foreign tear lately and even if he stayed in Korea, could probably be the fourth Toss in the depth chart with Puzzle/JYP and maybe Crank who Slayers has huge confidence in.
Who would take Leenock's spot if/when he withdraws? The lowest Anaheim finishers who are currently in the Arena based on their results there are aLive and GanZi. The players who finished in the same spot as them were MC (who was likely asked about the spot already and had to pass it up due to GSL) and Grubby (who made it into the Arena already through the European Invite-Only Online Qualifier). The next tier of finishers below them (listed in order of seed, because I don't know the number of "MLG Points" they have to break ties) was:
Ryung (already in through KR IOOQ) Socke (registered for, but no-showed EU IOOQ) Rain (already in through KR IOOQ) Golden (already in through NA IOOQ)
If Socke can't make it, the next tier is:
viOLet (already in through NA IOOQ) Dream (already in through KR IOOQ) ThorZaIN (possible GSTL and/or Code A commitments; didn't attempt EU IOOQ) Lucky (his team is in GSTL semi-final match)
and then:
Heart JYP Sleep Suppy
FYI Thorzain did the KR IOCQ.
Boss tweeted that Leenock will be playing in GSTL instead of MLG so he will need to be replaced. If Thorzain is the next player, I think he will go.
On July 15 2012 17:33 Fionn wrote: Wouldn't be surprised to see Ryung/Leenock not going since they are vital to their team's chances at making the finals. Alicia has been on a foreign tear lately and even if he stayed in Korea, could probably be the fourth Toss in the depth chart with Puzzle/JYP and maybe Crank who Slayers has huge confidence in.
Who would take Leenock's spot if/when he withdraws? The lowest Anaheim finishers who are currently in the Arena based on their results there are aLive and GanZi. The players who finished in the same spot as them were MC (who was likely asked about the spot already and had to pass it up due to GSL) and Grubby (who made it into the Arena already through the European Invite-Only Online Qualifier). The next tier of finishers below them (listed in order of seed, because I don't know the number of "MLG Points" they have to break ties) was:
Ryung (already in through KR IOOQ) Socke (registered for, but no-showed EU IOOQ) Rain (already in through KR IOOQ) Golden (already in through NA IOOQ)
If Socke can't make it, the next tier is:
viOLet (already in through NA IOOQ) Dream (already in through KR IOOQ) ThorZaIN (possible GSTL and/or Code A commitments; didn't attempt EU IOOQ) Lucky (his team is in GSTL semi-final match)
and then:
Heart JYP Sleep Suppy
FYI Thorzain did the KR IOCQ.
Boss tweeted that Leenock will be playing in GSTL instead of MLG so he will need to be replaced. If Thorzain is the next player, I think he will go.
Thanks for the info (makes sense that he'd do the KR qualifier). Replacements for players who qualified through Anaheim are selected using the Anaheim finishing order (IOOQ results are irrelevant), so Socke would be next, followed by one of ThorZaIN/Lucky.
I would humbly submit the Idea of reorganizing some of the classic caster duos.
I like all current combos more or less, but what I would really like to see is two things:
The Plott Brothers United! They've been apart of SC for as long as it's been available, they need to cast together! At least a couple times!
Because this leaves Artosis without his usual other half, it leaves him open to team up with MrBitter, to create the second best duo name on the scene, ArBitter! And you have to admit, the name demands it be done.
On July 17 2012 15:14 Prophecy3 wrote: I would humbly submit the Idea of reorganizing some of the classic caster duos.
I like all current combos more or less, but what I would really like to see is two things:
The Plott Brothers United! They've been apart of SC for as long as it's been available, they need to cast together! At least a couple times!
Because this leaves Artosis without his usual other half, it leaves him open to team up with MrBitter, to create the second best duo name on the scene, ArBitter! And you have to admit, the name demands it be done.
Tasteless isn't even going to this arena, and they also said they will never cast together
On July 17 2012 22:01 Nawe wrote: I cant believe u didnt invited beastyqt, he could outclass almost all of other invitees...
Places in this Arena are earned through performance in Anaheim or the online qualifiers. Beastyqt tried the NA Open Online Qualifier and was eliminated after consecutive 1-2 losses to AnDa and DignitasKiller.
On July 17 2012 22:01 Nawe wrote: I cant believe u didnt invited beastyqt, he could outclass almost all of other invitees...
Places in this Arena are earned through performance in Anaheim or the online qualifiers. Beastyqt tried the NA Open Online Qualifier and was eliminated after consecutive 1-2 losses to AnDa and DignitasKiller.
No, what happened is I pretty much won the series and I dc'd when it was my 50 scvs to his 10 scvs and his 10 marines to my 15 tanks and 10 helions and he received win.
On July 16 2012 02:31 Noobity wrote: Do we know if there's going to be some sort of barcraft in NYC for this? I haven't seen anything in the barcraft section or TL community. Didn't know if MLG had a place on lockdown for a Barcraft or not.
I would also like to know if there's any barcraft or stuff going on in NYC... I'm here for vacation till July 26th, and, as I have already visited mostly of tourist places, a barcraft would be a funny thing to enjoy. =D
On July 17 2012 22:01 Nawe wrote: I cant believe u didnt invited beastyqt, he could outclass almost all of other invitees...
Places in this Arena are earned through performance in Anaheim or the online qualifiers. Beastyqt tried the NA Open Online Qualifier and was eliminated after consecutive 1-2 losses to AnDa and DignitasKiller.
No, what happened is I pretty much won the series and I dc'd when it was my 50 scvs to his 10 scvs and his 10 marines to my 15 tanks and 10 helions and he received win.
Tasteless in his recent Real Talk interview with JP explained that he and Artosis always casted together exclusively in an effort to build their "Tastosis" brand, and now that it's firmly established they feel more free to cast separately from each other. Tasteless described casting every event he's invited to as being extremely exhausting, and because of his already busy schedule in Korea and comfortable income he is more ok with turning down certain events every once in awhile especially the ones that are constantly sending him across 12-13 different time zones. Tasteless explained that Artosis being a family man now has more responsibility in providing for his family and is more willing to take on an increased work load, and according to Tasteless things are perfectly cool between the two of them.
I got my eye on ESC.Daisy. Sick protoss who won the very first TSL 4 EU qualifier; i think he is going to turn some heads in this one. Obviously it is going to depend on whether or not he gets lucky with who chooses him.
Also quick note, to all those who are complaining about some unknown players i really think you should look at who they had to beat to earn their spot. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Summer/Qualifier/Open I think with the exception of Sasquatch, sorry to Sasquatch but you have a lot to prove here, there isn't a single other walkover in the tournament.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MW9jb.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/49OZl.png)
Sick line up and casters! Super pumped!
Sad about all the scheduling conflicts for them, especially MKP. Also odd to see no tasteless. What is this blasphemy of breaking up tastosis?! However, happy to see Day9 back in action!
!
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/GHOSTCLAW/tasteless.png)
