Modified Movement Test - Page 27

On July 05 2012 01:27 Mr Cochese wrote:
I thought the OP was going to be a Luddite whinger begging for a return to the shonky pathing of Starcraft 1, where units used to endlessly bump into each and get stuck, so I was pleased to see that his proposition was to make units move in formation. I've been playing RTS (quite mediocrely) since the original Dune 2 and I've always thought that moving units in formation is a fantastic idea. You can actually take it even further and lock the speed of all units to the speed of the slowest in the group, but that is an issue for the individual need of each game.

What I don't understand is people wishing for a return to a maximum selection group size of 12. In the older games that was obviously down to some technical limitation, and resulted in many a hilarious session of marshalling large groups of fifty or more zerglings across the map by grabbing 12 at a time. In Dune 2, which I pointedly mentioned just before, the restriction was even greater - there were no control groups at all. So that's the bad old days. Going back to these limited control schemes is not the answer to creating better gameplay, it is wishing for a return to eating shit off the ground.

So I now see how the clumping in SC2 is not the same as formation movement, and as I say I have an existing favourable disposition towards stuff moving in formation. Formation creates strategical and tactical opportunities to those able to exploit it, which is exactly what this genre of games should be about. It's not just about APM to outproduce and outmaneouvre the opponent, though that is certainly (the R in RTS) part of the genre - control improvements expand what it is possible for a highly competent player to achieve, so there is no question that unlimited unit selection removes any skill from the game. Arguing for this to be added into the game as an artificial restriction is the hidebound view here, and against moving forward into the incredible potential of what control and pathing improvements can bring to RTS.

On July 05 2012 13:47 Rkynick wrote:



In essence, when these designs decisions influence the gamplay meaningfully (and they rarely do), it is only because the player is untrained. That is, the game mechanics are not interesting enough to reward good control, these features merely keep you from accessing them until you can perform at a certain level.

Anyways, my point is that, between players of the same caliber, these things do not actually influence the game, but just get in the way. The design shouldn't be hurdles for the player to jump through. It should be tools for the player to use, to learn the vulnerabilities and limitations of and then master.

We might as well make it so that players are killed instantly if their APM drops below a certain level-- it would have the same effect as your suggestions!
Again I say the design should be based around adding strategy, not micromanagement. Micromanagement should come as a result of the added strategy. To give an example, with banelings comes marine-split micro. All of these old ideas-- the automine, the unit selection cap, etc-- are without cause. It is merely, "with micro comes micro" as opposed to "with [part of the game design] comes micro." I am opposed to adding micro for micro's sake.

On July 05 2012 11:59 sluggaslamoo wrote:


The technology was there, single building selection, unit cap selection, manual mining were design decisions. Coding such a thing is possibly one of the easiest changes one could make.

On July 05 2012 18:41 NeonFox wrote:
It does look much better, but it has to potential to blow balance up. I don't think Blizzard would ever implement this but there's nothing bad about bringing it to their attention.

On July 05 2012 19:37 one-one-one wrote:


Isn't it a map specific setting and not a hack?

Then map makers could just modify their maps ...

Technically you could hold a tournament for some random Sc2 custom game, so as long as Blizzard allows this to be modified in the editor they can't stop it being used in tournaments.

Personally I don't think it will have game breaking consequences. It is retarded how much micro goes to splitting groups of units everytime they arrive at a new location. This makes the army movement more consistent and allows the player to focus on more important things possibly making the game being played on a higher level .
This goes eally well with how they designed the rest of the UI with infinite control groups and auto-mining etc.

On July 05 2012 12:48 Kharnage wrote:
ROFL, people keep whinging about SC2 easy mode, but i can't think of anything mroe eazy mode than this.
So, i put my zealots at the front, then my archons, then immortals / stalkers and lastely colossus and 1A right?
with a nice spread of colossus and half a dozen extra zealots on the wings to flank

great, death ball gone, perfect engagements everytime. now the game is 'much' better.

On July 05 2012 12:53 Qwyn wrote:


Except that's not how it works.

Also...if it was that easy then why don't players do that already? Not much is changing, did you even try this mod? For the most part it's actually just cosmetic b/c there are more fundamental issues at work here (units slide around each other instead of sticking/resisting).

And the issues with SCII are manyfold, this is just one of them.

What you are describing is the Protoss deathball.

Which already happens.

You can already do this right now in game, no mods required. It just takes a little bit of skill (what we want right? no ez mode).

Set up your units in whatever formation, attack move on the mini-map in the farthest possible place in the same direction you want to attack and they will keep the formation. The farther away you attack move, the more closely they stay in formation and clump less.

It's quite useful.