There will obviously be balance shifts when gameplay values are changed. Nobody is claiming otherwise. This thread is about the effect these changes have on the clarity and spectator-friendliness of SC2.
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
The thing is that if you have your units presplit like the marines in the vid, then yeah, you're safe from AoE, but your army also can't attack in that position or you'd be extremely inefficient. Moving your army around presplit is one thing, but attacking with it is different. Even though they try to keep their formation, when you attack an enemy, the army is going to gather together since all the units will put themselves in range to attack. They just won't clump up into perfect ball shapes with MM. When this happens, AoE works perfectly fine. You can't have both though. You can't be presplit and engage while staying presplit. It just wouldn't work. This is assuming the map even has that much space to maneuver.
Testing in MMTaldarim is required to truly settle this though, since MMDaybreak didn't provide enough space to really see the full effect of this change.
depends on what composition your opponent has. if it involves banelings: yes you can stay in a presplit formation because as long as banelings don't kill at least 3 marines per baneling they won't be costefficient.
this is how micro is supposed to look. imagine the same fight with your mod... it would just be 40 marines 1 by 1, 2 banelings would die to kill 1 marine, siegetanks would kill 4 zerglings and 1 marine with 1 blow because the zerglings wrap arround themselves arround individual marines. There would be no micro whatsoever as soon as the fight begins, for terran at least, and i hardly think that zerg would be able to do anything good.
I think the battle would look differently than you suggest.
When you look carefully at the video, you notice that an important part of the video, is the beginning of the attack when all the marines are balled together. That part is to kill all the zerglings running in. after the lings die, the split needs to happen to counter the banelings.
If terran was pre split, zerglings would be WAY more efficient (getting a larger surface area, and the marines have a lower DPS density) The point is that pre split isn't always good.
grammar edit*
see, that is where you are wrong, if the zerglings wrap arround the individual marines and the tankshells drop, it's not costefficient for the zerg.
So your saying terran will always be pre-split to be cost efficient?
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
The thing is that if you have your units presplit like the marines in the vid, then yeah, you're safe from AoE, but your army also can't attack in that position or you'd be extremely inefficient. Moving your army around presplit is one thing, but attacking with it is different. Even though they try to keep their formation, when you attack an enemy, the army is going to gather together since all the units will put themselves in range to attack. They just won't clump up into perfect ball shapes with MM. When this happens, AoE works perfectly fine. You can't have both though. You can't be presplit and engage while staying presplit. It just wouldn't work. This is assuming the map even has that much space to maneuver.
Testing in MMTaldarim is required to truly settle this though, since MMDaybreak didn't provide enough space to really see the full effect of this change.
depends on what composition your opponent has. if it involves banelings: yes you can stay in a presplit formation because as long as banelings don't kill at least 3 marines per baneling they won't be costefficient.
this is how micro is supposed to look. imagine the same fight with your mod... it would just be 40 marines 1 by 1, 2 banelings would die to kill 1 marine, siegetanks would kill 4 zerglings and 1 marine with 1 blow because the zerglings wrap arround themselves arround individual marines. There would be no micro whatsoever as soon as the fight begins, for terran at least, and i hardly think that zerg would be able to do anything good.
I think the battle would look differently than you suggest.
When you look carefully at the video, you notice that an important part of the video, is the beginning of the attack when all the marines are balled together. That part is to kill all the zerglings running in. after the lings die, the split needs to happen to counter the banelings.
If terran was pre split, zerglings would be WAY more efficient (getting a larger surface area, and the marines have a lower DPS density) The point is that pre split isn't always good.
grammar edit*
see, that is where you are wrong, if the zerglings wrap arround the individual marines and the tankshells drop, it's not costefficient for the zerg.
So your saying terran will always be pre-split to be cost efficient?
as long as he has tanks, and can split to a point where his tankshells hit only 1 marine and kill 4 zerglings or even more yes. yes always
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
The thing is that if you have your units presplit like the marines in the vid, then yeah, you're safe from AoE, but your army also can't attack in that position or you'd be extremely inefficient. Moving your army around presplit is one thing, but attacking with it is different. Even though they try to keep their formation, when you attack an enemy, the army is going to gather together since all the units will put themselves in range to attack. They just won't clump up into perfect ball shapes with MM. When this happens, AoE works perfectly fine. You can't have both though. You can't be presplit and engage while staying presplit. It just wouldn't work. This is assuming the map even has that much space to maneuver.
Testing in MMTaldarim is required to truly settle this though, since MMDaybreak didn't provide enough space to really see the full effect of this change.
depends on what composition your opponent has. if it involves banelings: yes you can stay in a presplit formation because as long as banelings don't kill at least 3 marines per baneling they won't be costefficient.
this is how micro is supposed to look. imagine the same fight with your mod... it would just be 40 marines 1 by 1, 2 banelings would die to kill 1 marine, siegetanks would kill 4 zerglings and 1 marine with 1 blow because the zerglings wrap arround themselves arround individual marines. There would be no micro whatsoever as soon as the fight begins, for terran at least, and i hardly think that zerg would be able to do anything good.
I think the battle would look differently than you suggest.
When you look carefully at the video, you notice that an important part of the video, is the beginning of the attack when all the marines are balled together. That part is to kill all the zerglings running in. after the lings die, the split needs to happen to counter the banelings.
If terran was pre split, zerglings would be WAY more efficient (getting a larger surface area, and the marines have a lower DPS density) The point is that pre split isn't always good.
grammar edit*
see, that is where you are wrong, if the zerglings wrap arround the individual marines and the tankshells drop, it's not costefficient for the zerg.
So your saying terran will always be pre-split to be cost efficient?
Zerglings are much more powerful against marines split up, its already been proven by the millions of games of BW where a Terran has lost because he forgot to ball up his marines.
Simply put instead of making banes, Zerg will just have more lings, which is more cost efficient because Zerg can now use the extra min/gas for mutas or tech.
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
The thing is that if you have your units presplit like the marines in the vid, then yeah, you're safe from AoE, but your army also can't attack in that position or you'd be extremely inefficient. Moving your army around presplit is one thing, but attacking with it is different. Even though they try to keep their formation, when you attack an enemy, the army is going to gather together since all the units will put themselves in range to attack. They just won't clump up into perfect ball shapes with MM. When this happens, AoE works perfectly fine. You can't have both though. You can't be presplit and engage while staying presplit. It just wouldn't work. This is assuming the map even has that much space to maneuver.
Testing in MMTaldarim is required to truly settle this though, since MMDaybreak didn't provide enough space to really see the full effect of this change.
depends on what composition your opponent has. if it involves banelings: yes you can stay in a presplit formation because as long as banelings don't kill at least 3 marines per baneling they won't be costefficient.
this is how micro is supposed to look. imagine the same fight with your mod... it would just be 40 marines 1 by 1, 2 banelings would die to kill 1 marine, siegetanks would kill 4 zerglings and 1 marine with 1 blow because the zerglings wrap arround themselves arround individual marines. There would be no micro whatsoever as soon as the fight begins, for terran at least, and i hardly think that zerg would be able to do anything good.
I think the battle would look differently than you suggest.
When you look carefully at the video, you notice that an important part of the video, is the beginning of the attack when all the marines are balled together. That part is to kill all the zerglings running in. after the lings die, the split needs to happen to counter the banelings.
If terran was pre split, zerglings would be WAY more efficient (getting a larger surface area, and the marines have a lower DPS density) The point is that pre split isn't always good.
grammar edit*
see, that is where you are wrong, if the zerglings wrap arround the individual marines and the tankshells drop, it's not costefficient for the zerg.
So your saying terran will always be pre-split to be cost efficient?
as long as he has tanks, and can split to a point where his tankshells hit only 1 marine and kill 4 zerglings or even more yes. yes always
edit: against zerg of course ^.^
I believe that's typically something you need to test before you can say anything like that. But if your right, that would ruin the mod ofcourse! :-)
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
The thing is that if you have your units presplit like the marines in the vid, then yeah, you're safe from AoE, but your army also can't attack in that position or you'd be extremely inefficient. Moving your army around presplit is one thing, but attacking with it is different. Even though they try to keep their formation, when you attack an enemy, the army is going to gather together since all the units will put themselves in range to attack. They just won't clump up into perfect ball shapes with MM. When this happens, AoE works perfectly fine. You can't have both though. You can't be presplit and engage while staying presplit. It just wouldn't work. This is assuming the map even has that much space to maneuver.
Testing in MMTaldarim is required to truly settle this though, since MMDaybreak didn't provide enough space to really see the full effect of this change.
depends on what composition your opponent has. if it involves banelings: yes you can stay in a presplit formation because as long as banelings don't kill at least 3 marines per baneling they won't be costefficient.
this is how micro is supposed to look. imagine the same fight with your mod... it would just be 40 marines 1 by 1, 2 banelings would die to kill 1 marine, siegetanks would kill 4 zerglings and 1 marine with 1 blow because the zerglings wrap arround themselves arround individual marines. There would be no micro whatsoever as soon as the fight begins, for terran at least, and i hardly think that zerg would be able to do anything good.
I think the battle would look differently than you suggest.
When you look carefully at the video, you notice that an important part of the video, is the beginning of the attack when all the marines are balled together. That part is to kill all the zerglings running in. after the lings die, the split needs to happen to counter the banelings.
If terran was pre split, zerglings would be WAY more efficient (getting a larger surface area, and the marines have a lower DPS density) The point is that pre split isn't always good.
grammar edit*
see, that is where you are wrong, if the zerglings wrap arround the individual marines and the tankshells drop, it's not costefficient for the zerg.
I don't understand this idea of a marine dying and 4 lings dying and therefore it's not cost efficient for Zerg. Just think about this for a sec. How would ANY rearrangement of zerglings be less efficient to tanks than they currently are now? Zerglings are already bunched up currently, meaning that tanks could get 100 percent efficiency on them. You can't get any more ling kills with a seige tank than when they're clumped up, like they are now. Also, if it turned out that zerglings DID automatically surround a marine, then that's just further proof that having a presplit army isn't always efficient. Having a marine surrounded means that marine dies faster, which is an advantage for the Zerg. That's why balling up vs zerglings is good, because they can't surround individual marines. Or maybe I'm not understanding you correctly.
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
The thing is that if you have your units presplit like the marines in the vid, then yeah, you're safe from AoE, but your army also can't attack in that position or you'd be extremely inefficient. Moving your army around presplit is one thing, but attacking with it is different. Even though they try to keep their formation, when you attack an enemy, the army is going to gather together since all the units will put themselves in range to attack. They just won't clump up into perfect ball shapes with MM. When this happens, AoE works perfectly fine. You can't have both though. You can't be presplit and engage while staying presplit. It just wouldn't work. This is assuming the map even has that much space to maneuver.
Testing in MMTaldarim is required to truly settle this though, since MMDaybreak didn't provide enough space to really see the full effect of this change.
depends on what composition your opponent has. if it involves banelings: yes you can stay in a presplit formation because as long as banelings don't kill at least 3 marines per baneling they won't be costefficient.
this is how micro is supposed to look. imagine the same fight with your mod... it would just be 40 marines 1 by 1, 2 banelings would die to kill 1 marine, siegetanks would kill 4 zerglings and 1 marine with 1 blow because the zerglings wrap arround themselves arround individual marines. There would be no micro whatsoever as soon as the fight begins, for terran at least, and i hardly think that zerg would be able to do anything good.
I think the battle would look differently than you suggest.
When you look carefully at the video, you notice that an important part of the video, is the beginning of the attack when all the marines are balled together. That part is to kill all the zerglings running in. after the lings die, the split needs to happen to counter the banelings.
If terran was pre split, zerglings would be WAY more efficient (getting a larger surface area, and the marines have a lower DPS density) The point is that pre split isn't always good.
grammar edit*
see, that is where you are wrong, if the zerglings wrap arround the individual marines and the tankshells drop, it's not costefficient for the zerg.
I don't understand this idea of a marine dying and 4 lings dying and therefore it's not cost efficient for Zerg. Just think about this for a sec. How would ANY rearrangement of zerglings be less efficient to tanks than they currently are now? Zerglings are already bunched up currently, meaning that tanks could get 100 percent efficiency on them. You can't get any more ling kills with a seige tank than when they're clumped up, like they are now. Also, if it turned out that zerglings DID automatically surround a marine, then that's just further proof that having a presplit army isn't always efficient. Having a marine surrounded means that marine dies faster, which is an advantage for the Zerg. That's why balling up vs zerglings is good, because they can't surround individual marines. Or maybe I'm not understanding you correctly.
siegetanks will always shoot at the zerglings, always hitting the marines with those shells as well... what spread out marines do, is increasing the hit zerling to hit marine ratio.
here's some battles on unit test map with spread out marines vs ling/bling... in the end (first battle i had 1-1 on the lings but not on the marines) just see for yourself ^.^
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
The thing is that if you have your units presplit like the marines in the vid, then yeah, you're safe from AoE, but your army also can't attack in that position or you'd be extremely inefficient. Moving your army around presplit is one thing, but attacking with it is different. Even though they try to keep their formation, when you attack an enemy, the army is going to gather together since all the units will put themselves in range to attack. They just won't clump up into perfect ball shapes with MM. When this happens, AoE works perfectly fine. You can't have both though. You can't be presplit and engage while staying presplit. It just wouldn't work. This is assuming the map even has that much space to maneuver.
Testing in MMTaldarim is required to truly settle this though, since MMDaybreak didn't provide enough space to really see the full effect of this change.
depends on what composition your opponent has. if it involves banelings: yes you can stay in a presplit formation because as long as banelings don't kill at least 3 marines per baneling they won't be costefficient.
this is how micro is supposed to look. imagine the same fight with your mod... it would just be 40 marines 1 by 1, 2 banelings would die to kill 1 marine, siegetanks would kill 4 zerglings and 1 marine with 1 blow because the zerglings wrap arround themselves arround individual marines. There would be no micro whatsoever as soon as the fight begins, for terran at least, and i hardly think that zerg would be able to do anything good.
I think the battle would look differently than you suggest.
When you look carefully at the video, you notice that an important part of the video, is the beginning of the attack when all the marines are balled together. That part is to kill all the zerglings running in. after the lings die, the split needs to happen to counter the banelings.
If terran was pre split, zerglings would be WAY more efficient (getting a larger surface area, and the marines have a lower DPS density) The point is that pre split isn't always good.
grammar edit*
see, that is where you are wrong, if the zerglings wrap arround the individual marines and the tankshells drop, it's not costefficient for the zerg.
So your saying terran will always be pre-split to be cost efficient?
as long as he has tanks, and can split to a point where his tankshells hit only 1 marine and kill 4 zerglings or even more yes. yes always
edit: against zerg of course ^.^
First of all, that kind of spread takes up huge amounts of space and that kind of split would need maintaining constantly even with this change.
Second of all, without aoe involved such as banelings, marines clumped up are more efficient against zerglings so the spread in an engagement against pure zergling isn't more efficient and you also have to take into account that sure the whole terran army is split nicely but you will also be able to attack with a huge spread line of zerglings which means that 5-6 zerglings won't die from each single tank shell when the engagement begins
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
The thing is that if you have your units presplit like the marines in the vid, then yeah, you're safe from AoE, but your army also can't attack in that position or you'd be extremely inefficient. Moving your army around presplit is one thing, but attacking with it is different. Even though they try to keep their formation, when you attack an enemy, the army is going to gather together since all the units will put themselves in range to attack. They just won't clump up into perfect ball shapes with MM. When this happens, AoE works perfectly fine. You can't have both though. You can't be presplit and engage while staying presplit. It just wouldn't work. This is assuming the map even has that much space to maneuver.
Testing in MMTaldarim is required to truly settle this though, since MMDaybreak didn't provide enough space to really see the full effect of this change.
depends on what composition your opponent has. if it involves banelings: yes you can stay in a presplit formation because as long as banelings don't kill at least 3 marines per baneling they won't be costefficient.
this is how micro is supposed to look. imagine the same fight with your mod... it would just be 40 marines 1 by 1, 2 banelings would die to kill 1 marine, siegetanks would kill 4 zerglings and 1 marine with 1 blow because the zerglings wrap arround themselves arround individual marines. There would be no micro whatsoever as soon as the fight begins, for terran at least, and i hardly think that zerg would be able to do anything good.
I think the battle would look differently than you suggest.
When you look carefully at the video, you notice that an important part of the video, is the beginning of the attack when all the marines are balled together. That part is to kill all the zerglings running in. after the lings die, the split needs to happen to counter the banelings.
If terran was pre split, zerglings would be WAY more efficient (getting a larger surface area, and the marines have a lower DPS density) The point is that pre split isn't always good.
grammar edit*
see, that is where you are wrong, if the zerglings wrap arround the individual marines and the tankshells drop, it's not costefficient for the zerg.
So your saying terran will always be pre-split to be cost efficient?
as long as he has tanks, and can split to a point where his tankshells hit only 1 marine and kill 4 zerglings or even more yes. yes always
edit: against zerg of course ^.^
The only problem I theoretically see with your logic is that, if a terran splits up that heavily, what stops the zerg from just ignoring the marines and heading straight to the tanks? Holes in the line can and will be exploited with this kind of change.
On daybreak, why do they shift click when they move cross map? is there something so wrong with the path finding that they need to do that with this little change?
Honestly, I feel like this would make the game so much more awesome that it already is. By removing the need to always split, split, split during a battle, players will be able to focus on microing each unit more individually, to target fire, to dodge, to position each units better... Hell, battle would be so interesting. Could be even as good as BW battle were.
Fight would actually last longer than 5 sec... and getting away from the heavy infestors/sentry/collosus/emp would probably be a good thing.
Sure, the balance is all the be remade... but, whatever, what is a year or so of imbalance if we get a game that is that much more fun to watch and play long term?
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
The thing is that if you have your units presplit like the marines in the vid, then yeah, you're safe from AoE, but your army also can't attack in that position or you'd be extremely inefficient. Moving your army around presplit is one thing, but attacking with it is different. Even though they try to keep their formation, when you attack an enemy, the army is going to gather together since all the units will put themselves in range to attack. They just won't clump up into perfect ball shapes with MM. When this happens, AoE works perfectly fine. You can't have both though. You can't be presplit and engage while staying presplit. It just wouldn't work. This is assuming the map even has that much space to maneuver.
Testing in MMTaldarim is required to truly settle this though, since MMDaybreak didn't provide enough space to really see the full effect of this change.
depends on what composition your opponent has. if it involves banelings: yes you can stay in a presplit formation because as long as banelings don't kill at least 3 marines per baneling they won't be costefficient.
this is how micro is supposed to look. imagine the same fight with your mod... it would just be 40 marines 1 by 1, 2 banelings would die to kill 1 marine, siegetanks would kill 4 zerglings and 1 marine with 1 blow because the zerglings wrap arround themselves arround individual marines. There would be no micro whatsoever as soon as the fight begins, for terran at least, and i hardly think that zerg would be able to do anything good.
I think the battle would look differently than you suggest.
When you look carefully at the video, you notice that an important part of the video, is the beginning of the attack when all the marines are balled together. That part is to kill all the zerglings running in. after the lings die, the split needs to happen to counter the banelings.
If terran was pre split, zerglings would be WAY more efficient (getting a larger surface area, and the marines have a lower DPS density) The point is that pre split isn't always good.
grammar edit*
see, that is where you are wrong, if the zerglings wrap arround the individual marines and the tankshells drop, it's not costefficient for the zerg.
I don't understand this idea of a marine dying and 4 lings dying and therefore it's not cost efficient for Zerg. Just think about this for a sec. How would ANY rearrangement of zerglings be less efficient to tanks than they currently are now? Zerglings are already bunched up currently, meaning that tanks could get 100 percent efficiency on them. You can't get any more ling kills with a seige tank than when they're clumped up, like they are now. Also, if it turned out that zerglings DID automatically surround a marine, then that's just further proof that having a presplit army isn't always efficient. Having a marine surrounded means that marine dies faster, which is an advantage for the Zerg. That's why balling up vs zerglings is good, because they can't surround individual marines. Or maybe I'm not understanding you correctly.
siegetanks will always shoot at the zerglings, always hitting the marines with those shells as well... what spread out marines do, is increasing the hit zerling to hit marine ratio.
here's some battles on unit test map with spread out marines vs ling/bling... in the end (first battle i had 1-1 on the lings but not on the marines) just see for yourself ^.^
So a much superior and unrealistically spread out terran army barely beats an a-moving clumped up zerg army? What is this supposed to prove exactly? You know what's also happening is that when you're zerglings hit the marines, a large amount of marines in the back aren't doing anything. Whatever increased 'zergling/marine hit ratio' is completely insignificant in comparison.
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
The thing is that if you have your units presplit like the marines in the vid, then yeah, you're safe from AoE, but your army also can't attack in that position or you'd be extremely inefficient. Moving your army around presplit is one thing, but attacking with it is different. Even though they try to keep their formation, when you attack an enemy, the army is going to gather together since all the units will put themselves in range to attack. They just won't clump up into perfect ball shapes with MM. When this happens, AoE works perfectly fine. You can't have both though. You can't be presplit and engage while staying presplit. It just wouldn't work. This is assuming the map even has that much space to maneuver.
Testing in MMTaldarim is required to truly settle this though, since MMDaybreak didn't provide enough space to really see the full effect of this change.
depends on what composition your opponent has. if it involves banelings: yes you can stay in a presplit formation because as long as banelings don't kill at least 3 marines per baneling they won't be costefficient.
this is how micro is supposed to look. imagine the same fight with your mod... it would just be 40 marines 1 by 1, 2 banelings would die to kill 1 marine, siegetanks would kill 4 zerglings and 1 marine with 1 blow because the zerglings wrap arround themselves arround individual marines. There would be no micro whatsoever as soon as the fight begins, for terran at least, and i hardly think that zerg would be able to do anything good.
I think the battle would look differently than you suggest.
When you look carefully at the video, you notice that an important part of the video, is the beginning of the attack when all the marines are balled together. That part is to kill all the zerglings running in. after the lings die, the split needs to happen to counter the banelings.
If terran was pre split, zerglings would be WAY more efficient (getting a larger surface area, and the marines have a lower DPS density) The point is that pre split isn't always good.
grammar edit*
see, that is where you are wrong, if the zerglings wrap arround the individual marines and the tankshells drop, it's not costefficient for the zerg.
So your saying terran will always be pre-split to be cost efficient?
as long as he has tanks, and can split to a point where his tankshells hit only 1 marine and kill 4 zerglings or even more yes. yes always
edit: against zerg of course ^.^
So your whole argument against this modified movement is that it ruins marine vs baneling micro, and therefore not worth it? You referenced a single match up, with a specific unit comp from each player; that would look completely different if there were infestors.
Your pre-split concept is way too out of context. You speak as if Terran can easily pre-split and auto win. Explain to me how on a map like Daybreak with tons of choke points, a Terran can keep his units constantly split so 1 tank shell hits only 1 marine.
Your assumption must lie in that Terran's can move with near 100% efficiency with pre-split armies as currently you can already set up a tank / marine wall with only 1 marine per tank shell. Map makers will obviously widen maps, but don't swing the argument to the other end where every map is going to be flat and open allowing for Terran auto-win presplit a-move. That would be poor map design and I don't believe map makers are that incompetent.
Please stop using isolated scenarios and extreme examples; this is not how they would play out in a real match. If you believe Terran's would be that effective, find a Z and go play a match and successfully pull this off.
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
The thing is that if you have your units presplit like the marines in the vid, then yeah, you're safe from AoE, but your army also can't attack in that position or you'd be extremely inefficient. Moving your army around presplit is one thing, but attacking with it is different. Even though they try to keep their formation, when you attack an enemy, the army is going to gather together since all the units will put themselves in range to attack. They just won't clump up into perfect ball shapes with MM. When this happens, AoE works perfectly fine. You can't have both though. You can't be presplit and engage while staying presplit. It just wouldn't work. This is assuming the map even has that much space to maneuver.
Testing in MMTaldarim is required to truly settle this though, since MMDaybreak didn't provide enough space to really see the full effect of this change.
depends on what composition your opponent has. if it involves banelings: yes you can stay in a presplit formation because as long as banelings don't kill at least 3 marines per baneling they won't be costefficient.
this is how micro is supposed to look. imagine the same fight with your mod... it would just be 40 marines 1 by 1, 2 banelings would die to kill 1 marine, siegetanks would kill 4 zerglings and 1 marine with 1 blow because the zerglings wrap arround themselves arround individual marines. There would be no micro whatsoever as soon as the fight begins, for terran at least, and i hardly think that zerg would be able to do anything good.
I think the battle would look differently than you suggest.
When you look carefully at the video, you notice that an important part of the video, is the beginning of the attack when all the marines are balled together. That part is to kill all the zerglings running in. after the lings die, the split needs to happen to counter the banelings.
If terran was pre split, zerglings would be WAY more efficient (getting a larger surface area, and the marines have a lower DPS density) The point is that pre split isn't always good.
grammar edit*
see, that is where you are wrong, if the zerglings wrap arround the individual marines and the tankshells drop, it's not costefficient for the zerg.
So your saying terran will always be pre-split to be cost efficient?
as long as he has tanks, and can split to a point where his tankshells hit only 1 marine and kill 4 zerglings or even more yes. yes always
edit: against zerg of course ^.^
So your whole argument against this modified movement is that it ruins marine vs baneling micro, and therefore not worth it? You referenced a single match up, with a specific unit comp from each player; that would look completely different if there were infestors.
Well, as a Zerg...and I am pretty sure that I am not alone, I can tell you that I would get rid of banelings any day if there was another way of beating a high marines comp. Banelings are just not fun at all, actually.
Implement MM, get rid of banelings completly... make the fungal zone a bit bigger (not a lot, just a bit, so pre-split doesn't make it completly useless) and et voila.
Interesting fact, too, is that clumped Mutalisk are really efficient against splitted marine and tank. He split too much and have too much tank? Clump your mutas, snipe a tank or two, make him clump is marine to defend against it... and then, bam, fungal.
I don't think that it is making the game HARDER or EASIER... it's just making the game more... alive, if you guys know what I mean.
From a purely aesthetic point of view, I like this! It looks a lot more 'natural' and armies are more 'epic'. Sure those adjectives are completely subjective but the clumping and jostling we see in SC2 has always been extremely strange to me (why can that marine nudge that tank?) and spreading the army out more makes it look larger. It definitely looks a lot more like BW which in my book is a good thing.
Sure there are balance issues but nothing that can't be fixed.
I'm fine with other mods such as "stronger team colour" and "custom decals", as they are purely for aesthetic purposes.. (at least, from my point of view). As for this mod, I discourage the implementation, simply because it changes gameplay for the opponent in an unfair way. It gives a disadvantage to those who have to manually struggle to split their forces in dire situations, where the perfect split to save your life won't always be the result. Human error is part of the game; we practice for efficiency.. this mod is an excuse.
I miss the old BW movement. Just seems much more rewarding for people that play positional tactics that isn't ruined with the single movement click of the army. For those saying that this would make AoE weak, that's pretty freakin obvious, but it also obviously worked in BW because AoE spells were much stronger. Storm was a stable part of PvZ afterall. Now people don't use storm as much in the MU. Marine splitting is cool and all, but remember there were things in BW that were freaking awesome too. Marines vs. Lurkers were some of the most entertaining fights in all of BW. More so than Marines vs. Banelings IMO.
You can only do so much with death balls in terms of viewership and honestly, they're beginning to make some games not as fun and players tend to play extremely passive because of the death balls. In BW, you would see people adjust armies beforehand to where it extremely benefits the person that puts the effort into it. Now, it's people swaying back and forth with death balls until both sides decides to finally to engage. It just made fights a bit less predictable in BW.
And people don't realize this, but the reason why the AI pathing is very poor in SC2 is because of unit clumping. This is especially apparent with zerglings as they try to funnel through one choke point when there's obviously another path around. Think of marine drops and zerglings get trapped around minerals.
Don't get me wrong. I like SC2. Just it's good for everyone to understand WHY people like the old unit pathing and why it made BW such a huge esport in Korea.
I firmly believe that mm, will not change the deathball; nor would limited selection in control groups.
MM would make the death ball easier to presplit, and collapse. but it does not change the NEED to match deathball with deathball;
limited control groups, makes it more difficult to control, but again it does not change the need for deathballs. 12 marines vs 12 stalkers? 12 lings vs 12 hellions? how many hotkeys do you need to control 100lings, and 50 banes? would this limitation be imposed on buildings? zerg has what 5-8 base+upgrade buildings, while t&p has 12+ rax/fac/star, gate/robo/star
what could possibly change the death ball would be some way to make any excess unit give reduced return. example: why do players not make 60 workers on 1 base? because pass the point of full saturation there is no return on investment.
have you ever seen a 20 thor composition? why? because the way thor collision works only a certain number can "fit" in a concave(i assume the warhound will have the same issue), the rest will be walking around until a "parking spot" opens up.
but then again... changing collision would really throw off any balance that we still have. how many of each unit should/could fit in a reduced engagement?
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
The thing is that if you have your units presplit like the marines in the vid, then yeah, you're safe from AoE, but your army also can't attack in that position or you'd be extremely inefficient. Moving your army around presplit is one thing, but attacking with it is different. Even though they try to keep their formation, when you attack an enemy, the army is going to gather together since all the units will put themselves in range to attack. They just won't clump up into perfect ball shapes with MM. When this happens, AoE works perfectly fine. You can't have both though. You can't be presplit and engage while staying presplit. It just wouldn't work. This is assuming the map even has that much space to maneuver.
Testing in MMTaldarim is required to truly settle this though, since MMDaybreak didn't provide enough space to really see the full effect of this change.
depends on what composition your opponent has. if it involves banelings: yes you can stay in a presplit formation because as long as banelings don't kill at least 3 marines per baneling they won't be costefficient.
this is how micro is supposed to look. imagine the same fight with your mod... it would just be 40 marines 1 by 1, 2 banelings would die to kill 1 marine, siegetanks would kill 4 zerglings and 1 marine with 1 blow because the zerglings wrap arround themselves arround individual marines. There would be no micro whatsoever as soon as the fight begins, for terran at least, and i hardly think that zerg would be able to do anything good.
I think the battle would look differently than you suggest.
When you look carefully at the video, you notice that an important part of the video, is the beginning of the attack when all the marines are balled together. That part is to kill all the zerglings running in. after the lings die, the split needs to happen to counter the banelings.
If terran was pre split, zerglings would be WAY more efficient (getting a larger surface area, and the marines have a lower DPS density) The point is that pre split isn't always good.
grammar edit*
see, that is where you are wrong, if the zerglings wrap arround the individual marines and the tankshells drop, it's not costefficient for the zerg.
So your saying terran will always be pre-split to be cost efficient?
as long as he has tanks, and can split to a point where his tankshells hit only 1 marine and kill 4 zerglings or even more yes. yes always
edit: against zerg of course ^.^
So your whole argument against this modified movement is that it ruins marine vs baneling micro, and therefore not worth it? You referenced a single match up, with a specific unit comp from each player; that would look completely different if there were infestors.
Your pre-split concept is way too out of context. You speak as if Terran can easily pre-split and auto win. Explain to me how on a map like Daybreak with tons of choke points, a Terran can keep his units constantly split so 1 tank shell hits only 1 marine.
Your assumption must lie in that Terran's can move with near 100% efficiency with pre-split armies as currently you can already set up a tank / marine wall with only 1 marine per tank shell. Map makers will obviously widen maps, but don't swing the argument to the other end where every map is going to be flat and open allowing for Terran auto-win presplit a-move. That would be poor map design and I don't believe map makers are that incompetent.
Please stop using isolated scenarios and extreme examples; this is not how they would play out in a real match. If you believe Terran's would be that effective, find a Z and go play a match and successfully pull this off.
There's also the point that his arguement is 100% incorrect in the first place.
His point is that pre-spread marines + tanks will make lings ineffective against that army composition. This is 100% false unless the Zerg is silly and just A-moves everything. You know how ridiculously fast Marines die to lings when they go for the full surround and flanks? Now imagine that with a pre-split, where the marines aren't firing at the same time and Tanks are getting picked off.
Fact: Being clumped is better vs Melee units Fact: Being spread out is better vs AoE units
I don't get it - first there were complaints about how units clump in SC2 and now suddenly clumping is considered good for the game. Since you still have to manually move your units to desired formation I don't see a problem with OP's modification.
EPT
