There will obviously be balance shifts when gameplay values are changed. Nobody is claiming otherwise. This thread is about the effect these changes have on the clarity and spectator-friendliness of SC2.
On July 04 2012 17:50 Aelfric wrote: You guys should save your breaths, everyone can easily figure out that this will never make it into the game.
Gameplay is way, way more similar than you think.
Well, isn't that exactly why it will never make it to the live game? It changes barely anything and what it does change seems to reduce the need to initially micro in battle which reduces skill and overall excitement when spectating.
It makes it way, way more exciting to watch. Look at the video. Units have presence, they look cooler, you can actually see them, count them, and appreciate them. They don't have to die as quickly, which means exciting battles happen far more often. It makes potshots easier, and could create a constant combat presence on the map.
I'm sorry, I've just never had the problems that you're implying exist. I honestly think you're probably just watching too many Kespa games and judging from them. This year has ushered in a new era of high level, amazing SC2 and not once has it crossed my mind that units don't have presence, don't look cool, that I can't see them(?) etc....
On July 04 2012 17:37 densha wrote: I don't think such a huge change to the game is necessary at this point for a couple of reasons.
1) As we see at the highest level of play, SC2 has become a very well developed game. Most matchups are very dynamic with a lot of back-and-forth. Yes, some viable strats for each race involve building up to a doom army, but there is a lot of action up to that point in most cases. I would also argue that doom armies/death balls are much more about composition (unit design) than pathing.
2) Unit clumping is actually proving to be one of those AI quirks that skilled players are increasingly able to fight against. While Protoss admittedly don't ever seem to need to split their units, Terran and even Zerg need to. For Terran the situations are obvious and the split micro is basically required at pro level. For Zerg, imagine a Z who comes along who can skillfully split banes to counteract bio splits and tank AoE. Splitting broods against mothership and spreading out units against other AoE is also increasingly important.
I think removing that kind of anti-clumping micro by introducing what amounts to "formations" would be the antithesis of what StarCraft is. It would really reduce the skill involved in bio and baneling micro just for one example. And if it applies to air units? Well, just imagine the a-move broodlord armies that makes possible, right? No, this would not be good for the game.
You'd honestly still need to do 80-90% as much micro for bio and banelings, you just wouldn't have to fight with your own units. Most of splitting involves grabbing groups and running back, running forward with them. And a permanently spread out army becomes very vulnerable to just about anything besides banelings and spell AoE. Players will want to clump mid battle, and then they'll have to do exactly the same thing they do now, split their units during a fight. The units just won't be actively sabotaging them as soon as they move.
You're just making the change sound completely unnecessary then. Units that actively hate you is very StarCraft and the micro that emerges from such things is part of the overall character of the game. You should not be able to micro your units BEFORE battle, when there's no pressure or skill involved.
And even if you disagree with that, you should still see how unit clumping has emerged as a defining characteristic of SC2. Would you have Blizzard go back and fix Dragoon pathing in BW?
The argument you're making is a little bit "multiple building select" or "12 units" here. This change removes a problem where players can't directly control units, and have to perform actions to adjust for the AI that is actually telling their army what to do.
When you can click between units and clump them, or click away from units and have them move in a straight line, it means you have actual manual control over what your army does.
Autoclump is pure annoyance, and it's caused every single AoE attack and spell to go from normal sized to minuscule, and damage has had to be reduced tremendously. Area denial barely exists anymore. Units are allowed and forced to compress as close as they can, which increases damage output, shortens battles, and simplifies many games to one or two 5-15 second engagements. If it was feasible to keep units apart, the threat of stronger AoE would keep them apart, lower the DPS of armies, and create much more interesting, scrappy, and extended battles.
That's what makes it worth arguing about.
1) There is no problem with controlling units. You click a place, units go there. If that's bad, you micro out of it.
2) If AoE has already been balanced in light of the current AI, what's the point of changing how the AI acts? Should all AoE be changed again?
3) You don't solve any real problems. If you think "many games" are only one or two engagements, you're watching too much Proleague and not enough GSL/GSTL. You're arguing like it's 2010 and the metagame has matured wonderfully since then. Also, apparently people that have tested this are still saying a-move clumps units and you still have to split in battle just like how the game is now... doesn't that completely nullify your entire last paragraph? Again, it solves no "problems" but introduces new ones.
1. This change allows for sending units to a place, or sending them in a direction. Player's choice.
2. Yes. It's not good right now. Instead of denying area or forcing moves, it insta pops armies, or does nothing. It's still bad.
3. The battles still aren't as good as BroodWar's, and you shouldn't have to go to the GSL to find a scrappy game. It should be a more viable and common option for *anyone* who plays the game seriously/professionally, if not also down in the beginner leagues.
Also, no, a-moving doesn't clump unless they find units to attack. Even then, starting from a spread position, they will be less clumped if they don't spend the entirety of the journey just cramming in closer together.
And again, this would solve some HUGE issues that have been inherent to the game since Alpha. They've had a shit time trying to manage AoE problems, and the difficulty of balancing it has caused, among other things, a drop in the player base, who are frustrated playing a game which is designed to be fair once your life is devoted to it. Obviously, the top players are the priority for balance, and should always be, but we should also be very cautious not to create huge gaps in what is enjoyable for other people.
The problems it causes are tiny in comparison, and basically come down to a several number changes, which are about to start happening constantly and frequently in HotS anyway. I'd actually argue that a change like this, by making it easier to design and balance, would cause fewer total balance changes to take place, not more.
Current AI: When you need spread out units: spread out + attack = they clump up When you need deathball: Attack = they clump up
Modified Movements: When you spread out units: spread out + attack = they stay spread out When you need deathball: clump up + attack = they stay clumped up
I don't really watch starcraft 2 any more. The deathball and the weak AoE are the reasons. With wider and more damaging AoE coupled with this pathfinding change I think the game would be better. It also makes it possible to use more dynamic formations, this increases the strategic depth of the game.
On July 04 2012 20:35 Fantaisie wrote: I don't really watch starcraft 2 any more. The deathball and the weak AoE are the reasons. This would fix the problem. It also makes it possible to use more dynamic formations, this increases the strategic depth of the game.
My thoughts exactly. Great to see this stuff being thought about. The goodies start at 2:00 in the video btw.
On July 04 2012 20:35 Fantaisie wrote: I don't really watch starcraft 2 any more. The deathball and the weak AoE are the reasons. With wider and more damaging AoE coupled with this pathfinding change I think the game would be better. It also makes it possible to use more dynamic formations, this increases the strategic depth of the game.
with MMDaybreak the core game didn't change at all too much from what I've experienced. It still got rid of the forced balling up though, and armies look a lot better moving around. They look bigger without automatically clumping and I really like it. Retreating also feels better. Now I'm curious to see a few games on MMTaldarim. With so much open space in the middle, we might see huge differences on the impact this modification has when compared to MMDaybreak.
We really need more replays from either map though, so please test it out with friends and upload a few.
On July 04 2012 20:35 Fantaisie wrote: I don't really watch starcraft 2 any more. The deathball and the weak AoE are the reasons. With wider and more damaging AoE coupled with this pathfinding change I think the game would be better. It also makes it possible to use more dynamic formations, this increases the strategic depth of the game.
same here, these two things have really destroyed the game for me... i hope blizzard at least test this
I LOVE this, but it reduces AoE potential by a great deal, and the game has been balanced around this concept too much to easily adjust to this movement change.
On July 04 2012 20:35 Fantaisie wrote: I don't really watch starcraft 2 any more. The deathball and the weak AoE are the reasons. With wider and more damaging AoE coupled with this pathfinding change I think the game would be better. It also makes it possible to use more dynamic formations, this increases the strategic depth of the game.
huh?
I mean that it gives you more options for how you want to use your units.
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
Wow, again someone who did not read anything in the posts, or played the mod itself. nice false theorycrafting.
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
If the game is too easy I would be pleased to watch you playing the GSL if these changes happen
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
The thing is that if you have your units presplit like the marines in the vid, then yeah, you're safe from AoE, but your army also can't attack in that position or you'd be extremely inefficient. Moving your army around presplit is one thing, but attacking with it is different. Even though they try to keep their formation, when you attack an enemy, the army is going to gather together since all the units will put themselves in range to attack. They just won't clump up into perfect ball shapes with MM. When this happens, AoE works perfectly fine. You can't have both though. You can't be presplit and engage while staying presplit. It just wouldn't work. This is assuming the map even has that much space to maneuver.
Testing in MMTaldarim is required to truly settle this though, since MMDaybreak didn't provide enough space to really see the full effect of this change.
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
Wow, again someone who did not read anything in the posts, or played the mod itself. nice false theorycrafting.
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
Wow, again someone who did not read anything in the posts, or played the mod itself. nice false theorycrafting.
what's wrong about it?
sorry for the harsh tone but I think pzea469 (comment above) explains it the best
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
The thing is that if you have your units presplit like the marines in the vid, then yeah, you're safe from AoE, but your army also can't attack in that position or you'd be extremely inefficient. Moving your army around presplit is one thing, but attacking with it is different. Even though they try to keep their formation, when you attack an enemy, the army is going to gather together since all the units will put themselves in range to attack. They just won't clump up into perfect ball shapes with MM. When this happens, AoE works perfectly fine. You can't have both though. You can't be presplit and engage while staying presplit. It just wouldn't work. This is assuming the map even has that much space to maneuver.
Testing in MMTaldarim is required to truly settle this though, since MMDaybreak didn't provide enough space to really see the full effect of this change.
depends on what composition your opponent has. if it involves banelings: yes you can stay in a presplit formation because as long as banelings don't kill at least 3 marines per baneling they won't be costefficient.
this is how micro is supposed to look. imagine the same fight with your mod... it would just be 40 marines 1 by 1, 2 banelings would die to kill 1 marine, siegetanks would kill 4 zerglings and 1 marine with 1 blow because the zerglings wrap themselves arround individual marines. There would be no micro whatsoever as soon as the fight begins, for terran at least, and i hardly think that zerg would be able to do anything good.
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
The thing is that if you have your units presplit like the marines in the vid, then yeah, you're safe from AoE, but your army also can't attack in that position or you'd be extremely inefficient. Moving your army around presplit is one thing, but attacking with it is different. Even though they try to keep their formation, when you attack an enemy, the army is going to gather together since all the units will put themselves in range to attack. They just won't clump up into perfect ball shapes with MM. When this happens, AoE works perfectly fine. You can't have both though. You can't be presplit and engage while staying presplit. It just wouldn't work. This is assuming the map even has that much space to maneuver.
Testing in MMTaldarim is required to truly settle this though, since MMDaybreak didn't provide enough space to really see the full effect of this change.
depends on what composition your opponent has. if it involves banelings: yes you can stay in a presplit formation because as long as banelings don't kill at least 3 marines per baneling they won't be costefficient.
this is how micro is supposed to look. imagine the same fight with your mod... it would just be 40 marines 1 by 1, 2 banelings would die to kill 1 marine, siegetanks would kill 4 zerglings and 1 marine with 1 blow because the zerglings wrap arround themselves arround individual marines. There would be no micro whatsoever as soon as the fight begins, for terran at least, and i hardly think that zerg would be able to do anything good.
I think the battle would look differently than you suggest.
When you look carefully at the video, you notice that an important part of the video, is the beginning of the attack when all the marines are balled together. That part is to kill all the zerglings running in. after the lings die, the split needs to happen to counter the banelings.
If terran was pre split, zerglings would be WAY more efficient (getting a larger surface area, and the marines have a lower DPS density) The point is that pre split isn't always good.
On July 04 2012 07:26 dNa wrote: sorry, i don't like it at all... i want my units to clump up and have to spread them manually in the battle... that's what makes marine micro so awesome... this is just "hey look, i can have all my marines split 2minutes before the actual fight happens" ... great, who cares... please don't take micro out of the game. thank you.
Please read the comments in the thread before you just make assumptions out of thin air.
It wouldn't remove the micro because AOE radius/damage would most likely be buffed along with it which would make it so that you still have to split the same amount when you are already spread and even more if you choose to stay clumped all the time still.
the way the movement is presented on the video makes it so that the units stay spread out the way you did no matter how far you do it...
spreading out clumped stuff is about the only thing that requires skill at this point, if you take this out, this game will be too easy for my taste.
sorry, if anything i'd be fine, if the units have a bigger "individual space" per unit, which means the units are farer spread but still tend to clump.. but the way this is, the units don't run to the center point, but instead run the same distance as the unit in the middle towards the point. That means there will be a point where you have spread out wide enough, no matter how much you buff all the AOE damage/range.
And please keep in mind that in NO point of a battle a "ball" formation is good for your army. you want in arcs. So all you actually do with this idea is making the "moving arround" of the armies slightly more appealing to the watcher, while at the same time taking out all the micro skill that is involved, lowering the skill ceiling by alot. and - if i remember correctly - people think sc2 is easy enough, right?
anyway, that's just my opinion, as long as fans of this stay on their own maps and it doesn't get picked up by blizzard (which it won't) i will be totally fine with it.
The thing is that if you have your units presplit like the marines in the vid, then yeah, you're safe from AoE, but your army also can't attack in that position or you'd be extremely inefficient. Moving your army around presplit is one thing, but attacking with it is different. Even though they try to keep their formation, when you attack an enemy, the army is going to gather together since all the units will put themselves in range to attack. They just won't clump up into perfect ball shapes with MM. When this happens, AoE works perfectly fine. You can't have both though. You can't be presplit and engage while staying presplit. It just wouldn't work. This is assuming the map even has that much space to maneuver.
Testing in MMTaldarim is required to truly settle this though, since MMDaybreak didn't provide enough space to really see the full effect of this change.
depends on what composition your opponent has. if it involves banelings: yes you can stay in a presplit formation because as long as banelings don't kill at least 3 marines per baneling they won't be costefficient.
this is how micro is supposed to look. imagine the same fight with your mod... it would just be 40 marines 1 by 1, 2 banelings would die to kill 1 marine, siegetanks would kill 4 zerglings and 1 marine with 1 blow because the zerglings wrap arround themselves arround individual marines. There would be no micro whatsoever as soon as the fight begins, for terran at least, and i hardly think that zerg would be able to do anything good.
I think the battle would look differently than you suggest.
When you look carefully at the video, you notice that an important part of the video, is the beginning of the attack when all the marines are balled together. That part is to kill all the zerglings running in. after the lings die, the split needs to happen to counter the banelings.
If terran was pre split, zerglings would be WAY more efficient (getting a larger surface area, and the marines have a lower DPS density) The point is that pre split isn't always good.
grammar edit*
see, that is where you are wrong, if the zerglings wrap arround the individual marines and the tankshells drop, it's not costefficient for the zerg.
EPT
