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On June 24 2012 09:41 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:40 Scootaloo wrote:On June 24 2012 09:21 Peleus wrote: I'm sorry, I have to say this, but so many people on TL and in the entire SC2 community in general are entitled arseholes.
No, you do not 'deserve' free streams. In fact all the vast majority of the community has done the vast majority of the time is bitch and moan about whatever changes are put in place, be it a company actually trying to become financially viable, blizzard making balance decisions, whatever the topic.
Really, people need to get a reality check and realise what happens in the real world. Just because you add 1 to a viewer ship number does not mean MLG should bow down to you and your every request. Sorry I had to say this, but this community is just getting worse and worse.
Otherwise, thank you MLG for making a great event have the option of being free to watch, I'll definitely be tuning in and enjoying it. So many people are whipped sheep. You're basically saying that people should'nt voice their opinions if they are negative about certain companies you seem to have a hard on for. If Blizzard massively fucks up balance, we shouldn't complain. If MLG charges 20 dollars for a 3 day tournament viewing, we shouldn't complain, just suck it up and swallow. Funny how our whining made MLG cut it's PPV price in half and how Blizzard has directly responded numerous times to the massive amounts of complaint they got from fans. Seems to me our whining is changing the community for the better, if you can't take it, don't fucking read it. About the real world, IF this was the real world MLG would be bankrupt for trying the Arena's, nobody will pay for product you can get elsewhere for free, MLG is just really lucky they created enough sympathy beforehand so sheep like you will keep buying it without a second thought. And about MLG trying to become financially viable, MLG's inability to attract sponsors should not mean that the only way to become viable is via leeching more money from the viewers then you already are. Hate to break it to you but that phrase doesnt really work when a real business has real customers who are willing to pay for a high quality product.
Ah, so you intend to say that MLG Arena's offer a higher quality product then Dreamhack, IPL, regular MLG etc. This is just your opinion.
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On June 24 2012 09:50 BretZ wrote: The world owes you nothing, you don't deserve it. Stop acting like Blizzard or MLG should care about you. Someone else with consume their product.
Also, using the word "sheep" or "sheeple" just makes your point even less valid. The Arenas did great. They made plenty of money. Sure, whine about how the community are a bunch of "sheeple" and Sundance is literally Hitler.
On a serious note, stop. You don't deserve anything. If Starcraft 2 is so broken, don't play it, or fix it yourself. If MLG is just tricking people, prove it, or leave.
I never stated the world owed us anything, just very simply that when you run a payed tournament when free tournaments are the norm you're bound to screw up, like the last Arena's viewership proved pretty well.
And this whole silly logic where "If you don't agree with X, leave Y" is completely broken, I don't agree with environmental pollution, does that mean I should leave earth?
And I don't need to prove MLG is tricking you, they charged you 20$ the first time, 10$ the second and now it's free, they proved it pretty well themselves. And ofcourse there's the fact that I and many other people watched all these events for free.
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About time.. It's not about whether or not it can be done as free.. I would guess the majority of the audience is students, with limited income.. I'm glad they tried it anyway, and got it out of their system, hopefully won't suddenly change their minds again and go back..
Anyway, more mlg wooh :D
Edit: excuse, my outrageous, use of, commas, I am tired.
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On June 24 2012 09:51 Scootaloo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:34 VirgilSC2 wrote:On June 24 2012 09:18 Scootaloo wrote:On June 24 2012 05:41 VirgilSC2 wrote:On June 24 2012 05:30 Scootaloo wrote:On June 24 2012 05:10 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 23 2012 12:14 Boblhead wrote: Sundance finally realizes that you can run a free stream and still remain profitable
>Literally took him fucking 2+ years to realize this? Please tell us more about your knowledge in this area, it sure sounds interesting. Ting from IPL says there is no need to ever go PPV, he might not be making profits, but he never intended to, meaning that as Sundance went into this scene looking for the big bucks that might just be the wrong approach to a scene like this, especially when it's still so young. And Biscuit, bitching about somebody providing no deep analysis is only valid if you follow it up with some knowledgeable information yourself. IPL is also probably the biggest money sink of a league there is. Sundance isn't trying to "make big bucks" he's just trying to keep running a league financially viable, which I think he's doing a great job of. Don't get me wrong, David Ting is a smart guy and has a huge passion for eSports, but the reason he gets away with so much stuff is the relatively huge financial backing he's got. He's still in the stage of trying to make IPL break even. Perhaps if he wasn't so worried about his public image, he might be past that and be in the stage Sundance is in. I think you miss the point though, IPL being a money sink is not a problem as it's paid for by the sponsors, mainly IGN, viewers are worth this lost money according to the sponsors. I don't get where you get the impression IPL is the biggest moneysink, MLG seems to spend money like crazy (even on the LO3 where they interviewed Sundance about PPV Wheat and Scoots point this out) where they could easily cut corners if they cared enough. Seems to me one of the major problems of MLG is lack of sponsors, whereas IPL managed to create an incredible deal with IGN or the less stable GSL Pepsi one, MLG has no such backing, something which I can only really attribute to Sundance, as it is his job to do so or hire someone capable of it. And about Ting's public image, you're just projecting your desire for everything to be PPV because Sundance told you that was the only way to make this viable, just after Sundance completely destroyed his own image the stupidest thing to do would be to go PPV as well, especially if there is no pressing need to. Rather Sundance should not have been so stupid as to force a system onto a community that is still far too young for it, him backtracking just proves his new system isn't working and he's desperately trying to gain favor again. The only reason to need PPV when it's been proven you can manage just fine without is a desire for more money or an inability to attract sponsors, with Sundance living in a seaside villa, MLG being the biggest American e-sports tourney and his great love for a dumb game like Halo I'm inclined to believe Sundance doesn't really care about SC2 if it wasn't for the money. First of all, MLG has better sponsors than IPL, that's pretty much a fact. You should probably do some research. IGN does not sponsor IPL, IGN IS IPL. IGN didn't say, "Hey, look at this cool league they're starting, we should sponsor it!" they said "Hey, lets get into this eSports thing and start our own league" David Ting, before IPL, was an employee at IGN. MLG also has the advantage of bringing in pure VC investments. I don't understand what you don't get about IPL being in the red horribly and MLG not even being close to that bad. You're "inclined to believe" he doesn't care about SC2? Have you ever actually had a conversation with the guy? The naivety of some people on this forum astounds me, just because you perceive MLG as the bad guy and IPL as the good guy doesn't mean that IPL is actually the better business model. Actually according to the Executives with David Ting it was all his own idea and initiative, whether they are a sponsor or owner is irrelevant in this case, they pay for a bunch of people to get their brand name out. And they are successfull at it, y'know, this is how advertising works. I don't understand where you get the idea that IPL is heavily in the red, it's advertisement money, it's supposed to be spent, or for that matter that IPL spends more of it then MLG, you got any numbers to back this up or this this just guesstimating based on vague statements from Sundance? Never talked to Sundance in person ofcourse, nor would I want to, he seems pretty pompous and unable to listen to a opinion that conflicts with his own if we're to take any interview about PPV as a basis. "I get it, I get it." Funny how you try to speak about naivity when you're trying to defend a COMPANY from being greedy, you know, that basic thing that 99% of all companies are foccused on? Clearly you need to go to the real world more often. I can't be bothered to go find the source, but you're welcome to. David Ting's long term goal is to make IPL break even. I get the idea that IPL is in the red because I know IPL is in the red. I don't think you understand how leagues work. For a league to be a long term self sustaining entity they have to make a profit somewhere. Currently MLG is experimenting with finding exactly what that business model is. Frankly, I applaud them for that. Sure, it means taking a lot of flak from less informed members of the community, and sure it might not make them the most popular organization in some peoples eyes, but I can guarantee you as soon as MLG does find a successful business model, IPL will be right behind them in implementing it. I'm not defending a company from being greedy, I'm defending a great guy who tries hard to make eSports this financially viable thing who's actually a brilliant person and is really passionate about what he does.
Sundance is probably one of the nicest people I've had the pleasure of meeting during my time in eSports, and that's why I get so angry when people portray him as this evil corporate money grabbing scumbag.
I never said IPL spends more money than MLG, I said IPL has a worse bottom line than MLG. I can't believe you're naive enough to think they both start with the same amount of money.
How did you think this works? League A charges less money for HD, less money for spectator passes, less money for player passes, and gets less attendance than League B. You still think League A is the better business model?
Meanwhile League B flies players in from all across the globe, comps them hotels and meals, creates an entirely new tournament dynamic, and adds good prize money on top of that.
You don't seem to understand the difference between a self sustaining organization that's able to bring in large amounts of venture capital because of a solid, somewhat profitable business model and a money sink with a huge corporate back pocket.
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When does the next arena start?
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Love this. Will easily double the views that the Arenas get and help grow the community more by allowing people who do not know much about SC2 to check out some of the highest level games.
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On June 24 2012 09:53 Scootaloo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:41 Adreme wrote:On June 24 2012 09:40 Scootaloo wrote:On June 24 2012 09:21 Peleus wrote: I'm sorry, I have to say this, but so many people on TL and in the entire SC2 community in general are entitled arseholes.
No, you do not 'deserve' free streams. In fact all the vast majority of the community has done the vast majority of the time is bitch and moan about whatever changes are put in place, be it a company actually trying to become financially viable, blizzard making balance decisions, whatever the topic.
Really, people need to get a reality check and realise what happens in the real world. Just because you add 1 to a viewer ship number does not mean MLG should bow down to you and your every request. Sorry I had to say this, but this community is just getting worse and worse.
Otherwise, thank you MLG for making a great event have the option of being free to watch, I'll definitely be tuning in and enjoying it. So many people are whipped sheep. You're basically saying that people should'nt voice their opinions if they are negative about certain companies you seem to have a hard on for. If Blizzard massively fucks up balance, we shouldn't complain. If MLG charges 20 dollars for a 3 day tournament viewing, we shouldn't complain, just suck it up and swallow. Funny how our whining made MLG cut it's PPV price in half and how Blizzard has directly responded numerous times to the massive amounts of complaint they got from fans. Seems to me our whining is changing the community for the better, if you can't take it, don't fucking read it. About the real world, IF this was the real world MLG would be bankrupt for trying the Arena's, nobody will pay for product you can get elsewhere for free, MLG is just really lucky they created enough sympathy beforehand so sheep like you will keep buying it without a second thought. And about MLG trying to become financially viable, MLG's inability to attract sponsors should not mean that the only way to become viable is via leeching more money from the viewers then you already are. Hate to break it to you but that phrase doesnt really work when a real business has real customers who are willing to pay for a high quality product. Ah, so you intend to say that MLG Arena's offer a higher quality product then Dreamhack, IPL, regular MLG etc. This is just your opinion.
I intend to say that when MLG Arena is on it is the best product with the best players available that weekend. Are you telling me there was a better product available to me on that weekend because the player pools at the Assembly and Dreamhack, which were on at the same time, and in my opinion did not even come close to measuring up?
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On June 24 2012 08:17 WackaAlpaca wrote: It's sad that people are being happy about this, we have deserved free streams the entire time. Shame on you sheeple. No sir no we didn't. To expect a product to be free is just being naive or arrogant ill let you decide. They pay pretty much for the players to be flown in and their accommodation which last I checked cost more money then you'll probably make in a couple years. Sure others offer the same for free dosn't mean everyone has to nor should they be expected to. Without it having been PPV those 2 times (Why you're complaining about that I will honestly never know) they would never have even happened. Even NASL has streams you have to pay for like the Sunday Show Down and such but I've yet to head someone complain about that. So please grow up kind sir and learn how economics work cause you're about as bad as "sheeple" because you think the world should be handed to you on a silver platter which is just wrong. Stop whining and except that higher quality stuff takes more money and without that money IT WON"T HAPPEN!
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On June 24 2012 10:13 envisioN . wrote: Love this. Will easily double the views that the Arenas get and help grow the community more by allowing people who do not know much about SC2 to check out some of the highest level games.
It would actually be terrible if a free arena could only double, even triple, the views the paid arenas get.
People seem to really overestimate exactly how much MLG, or any e-sport organization, gets from advertisement revenue.
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On June 24 2012 08:17 WackaAlpaca wrote: It's sad that people are being happy about this, we have deserved free streams the entire time. Shame on you sheeple. What are you smoking that gave you this false sense of entitlement?
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It's heart breaking reading what think about business-related things when they have absolutely no knowledge.
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On June 24 2012 09:08 LeviathanDK wrote: so they finally learned they lost viewers, and people are more prone to buy if it is free and then got the HD option.
but still thx a lot now i can watch again!
They said before they even launched they expected to lose viewers, and afterwards they (didn't say but implied) made more money off of it. They haven't even released numbers and you speculate for the sake of freemium.
I think everyone forgets before they even announced arenas they had their circuit events, and the arenas were then added for additional revenue. No one lost anything, rather just demanded more entitlement.
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On June 24 2012 09:21 Peleus wrote: I'm sorry, I have to say this, but so many people on TL and in the entire SC2 community in general are entitled arseholes.
No, you do not 'deserve' free streams. In fact all the vast majority of the community has done the vast majority of the time is bitch and moan about whatever changes are put in place, be it a company actually trying to become financially viable, blizzard making balance decisions, whatever the topic.
Really, people need to get a reality check and realise what happens in the real world. Just because you add 1 to a viewer ship number does not mean MLG should bow down to you and your every request. Sorry I had to say this, but this community is just getting worse and worse.
Otherwise, thank you MLG for making a great event have the option of being free to watch, I'll definitely be tuning in and enjoying it. Entiltlement works both ways. Sundance is not entitled to a dime of mine for a product I feel unworthy or can be had free elsewhere. Real world is 90% of businesses fail and those who have success are entitled to it. MLG offers nothing special, nothing worthy of paying for unlike GSL.
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@Sundance How long did you think about how to publish it until you come up with: Acting half drunk on twitter and say: We make it for free because we got much money from not making it free.
Do you serious belief people buy this crap? Yeah, yeah you are right! they buy all kind of crap ...
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On June 24 2012 10:38 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:21 Peleus wrote: I'm sorry, I have to say this, but so many people on TL and in the entire SC2 community in general are entitled arseholes.
No, you do not 'deserve' free streams. In fact all the vast majority of the community has done the vast majority of the time is bitch and moan about whatever changes are put in place, be it a company actually trying to become financially viable, blizzard making balance decisions, whatever the topic.
Really, people need to get a reality check and realise what happens in the real world. Just because you add 1 to a viewer ship number does not mean MLG should bow down to you and your every request. Sorry I had to say this, but this community is just getting worse and worse.
Otherwise, thank you MLG for making a great event have the option of being free to watch, I'll definitely be tuning in and enjoying it. Entiltlement works both ways. Sundance is not entitled to a dime of mine for a product I feel unworthy or can be had free elsewhere. Real world is 90% of businesses fail and those who have success are entitled to it. MLG offers nothing special, nothing worthy of paying for unlike GSL. That's irrelevant to the point. The point is the SC2 community believes everything should be handed to them on a silver platter. By their logic all boxing events should be free to watch, same with Wrestlemania, NFL packages, etc.
I'm sorry but no one is entitled to a product. They can choose to give it out for free but you are never entitled to it UNLESS you pay for it if that is the requirement.
SC2 community needs to realize that.
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Quality entertainment has arrived.
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On June 24 2012 09:50 BretZ wrote: The world owes you nothing, you don't deserve it. Stop acting like Blizzard or MLG should care about you. Someone else with consume their product.
Also, using the word "sheep" or "sheeple" just makes your point even less valid. The Arenas did great. They made plenty of money. Sure, whine about how the community are a bunch of "sheeple" and Sundance is literally Hitler.
On a serious note, stop. You don't deserve anything. If Starcraft 2 is so broken, don't play it, or fix it yourself. If MLG is just tricking people, prove it, or leave. They didnt make jack shit. If they did they'd still be doing PPV.
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yyyyeeeessssss!!!!! I am so excited for this! Saw the first, could not afford the second, all I want is more SC2 and sundance is giving it to me!
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On June 24 2012 10:46 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:50 BretZ wrote: The world owes you nothing, you don't deserve it. Stop acting like Blizzard or MLG should care about you. Someone else with consume their product.
Also, using the word "sheep" or "sheeple" just makes your point even less valid. The Arenas did great. They made plenty of money. Sure, whine about how the community are a bunch of "sheeple" and Sundance is literally Hitler.
On a serious note, stop. You don't deserve anything. If Starcraft 2 is so broken, don't play it, or fix it yourself. If MLG is just tricking people, prove it, or leave. They didnt make jack shit. If they did they'd still be doing PPV.
On June 23 2012 13:35 MLG_Adam wrote: To those that are speculating that the arenas failed economically and combined with vocal outcry it forced our hand to change: you are far from the truth. The PPV model worked so well, we had a real leg to stand on to show this is a real business. This is great progress and we truly appreciate all of you helping us to grow (exponentially) from last season. Just posted some things on twitter around the viewing experience, but the bottom line is this: we want you to have the same reliable viewing experience for arenas that you have at Pro Circuits.
Updates to come, but they are good.
Shhhhh no more hate.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I'm glad MLG is doing so well they can make the Arenas freemium! This is a good sign for western esports
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