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This thread is going nowhere and I'm tired of dealing with it. Either drop the personal attacks and whining and replace it with actual discussion or it'll be closed.
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On June 25 2012 07:33 Flippin1337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 07:27 bOneSeven wrote:On June 25 2012 07:19 Flippin1337 wrote:
I do not understand this thread at all. I think the queen change is fine, I am a zerg player tho.
Seems to me like there is alot of whine about the zerg having a easyer time reaching the late game, i understand the problem with that but it doesn't seem like terrans are adapting? I saw demuslim play idra yesterday randomly and he played like you did before the change... It's like people expect to play the same way and still win? If you know the zerg will play more greedy why don't you play more greedy? Like 14 cc or 2 rax in double expansion. Seems like people are whining before trying new things, kinda sad imo.
I'm not one to say if there is something wrong but i doubt it. I think terran are favored in the late game against zerg so i do not understand where this is coming from. Terran is the race which scales the best with micro, atleast in my opinion, and i do not understand why you don't want to get into the lategame. Looks to me as terran have the highest skill cap and i think that's why you see so many GSL terran winners. Of course you could discuss if the queen buffs would then be fair on a lower level but meh. I don't get it please explain me the problem, cause it seems a little weird. if zergs sees you get 2 greedy, he can time out a good timing and destroy you. If terran seens zerg is to greedy, he must "deal"" with it. Yea of course we all now zerg have great timings if the terran go tank. And zerg have dealing with early timing attacks for ages vs terrans now the side switched atleast that's what you are saying. Isen't that fair, haven't zerg devolped new styles to counter that? I also wonder why terrans doesn't do the marauder/helion timing alot more, you know the zerg will play greedy like 98% of the time, and he will make like 1 spine. Just wondering.
A marauder hellion army has no way to deny overlord scouting. Marauder hellion is easy to hold off if you know it's coming.
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On June 25 2012 07:33 Flippin1337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 07:27 bOneSeven wrote:On June 25 2012 07:19 Flippin1337 wrote:
I do not understand this thread at all. I think the queen change is fine, I am a zerg player tho.
Seems to me like there is alot of whine about the zerg having a easyer time reaching the late game, i understand the problem with that but it doesn't seem like terrans are adapting? I saw demuslim play idra yesterday randomly and he played like you did before the change... It's like people expect to play the same way and still win? If you know the zerg will play more greedy why don't you play more greedy? Like 14 cc or 2 rax in double expansion. Seems like people are whining before trying new things, kinda sad imo.
I'm not one to say if there is something wrong but i doubt it. I think terran are favored in the late game against zerg so i do not understand where this is coming from. Terran is the race which scales the best with micro, atleast in my opinion, and i do not understand why you don't want to get into the lategame. Looks to me as terran have the highest skill cap and i think that's why you see so many GSL terran winners. Of course you could discuss if the queen buffs would then be fair on a lower level but meh. I don't get it please explain me the problem, cause it seems a little weird. if zergs sees you get 2 greedy, he can time out a good timing and destroy you. If terran seens zerg is to greedy, he must "deal"" with it. Yea of course we all now zerg have great timings if the terran go tank. And zerg have dealing with early timing attacks for ages vs terrans now the side switched atleast that's what you are saying. Isen't that fair, haven't zerg devolped new styles to counter that? I also wonder why terrans doesn't do the marauder/helion timing alot more, you know the zerg will play greedy like 98% of the time, and he will make like 1 spine. Just wondering.
Because 6 Queens can hold that timing off, you don't even really need to make zerglings to defend it. Marauders and hellions can't kill Queens with any kind of efficiency at all, especially with transfuse.
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On June 25 2012 07:40 Filter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 07:33 Flippin1337 wrote:On June 25 2012 07:27 bOneSeven wrote:On June 25 2012 07:19 Flippin1337 wrote:
I do not understand this thread at all. I think the queen change is fine, I am a zerg player tho.
Seems to me like there is alot of whine about the zerg having a easyer time reaching the late game, i understand the problem with that but it doesn't seem like terrans are adapting? I saw demuslim play idra yesterday randomly and he played like you did before the change... It's like people expect to play the same way and still win? If you know the zerg will play more greedy why don't you play more greedy? Like 14 cc or 2 rax in double expansion. Seems like people are whining before trying new things, kinda sad imo.
I'm not one to say if there is something wrong but i doubt it. I think terran are favored in the late game against zerg so i do not understand where this is coming from. Terran is the race which scales the best with micro, atleast in my opinion, and i do not understand why you don't want to get into the lategame. Looks to me as terran have the highest skill cap and i think that's why you see so many GSL terran winners. Of course you could discuss if the queen buffs would then be fair on a lower level but meh. I don't get it please explain me the problem, cause it seems a little weird. if zergs sees you get 2 greedy, he can time out a good timing and destroy you. If terran seens zerg is to greedy, he must "deal"" with it. Yea of course we all now zerg have great timings if the terran go tank. And zerg have dealing with early timing attacks for ages vs terrans now the side switched atleast that's what you are saying. Isen't that fair, haven't zerg devolped new styles to counter that? I also wonder why terrans doesn't do the marauder/helion timing alot more, you know the zerg will play greedy like 98% of the time, and he will make like 1 spine. Just wondering. Because 6 Queens can hold that timing off, you don't even really need to make zerglings to defend it. Marauders and hellions can't kill Queens with any kind of efficiency at all, especially with transfuse.
Now i have heard it all. /facepalm
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On June 25 2012 07:40 Filter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 07:33 Flippin1337 wrote:On June 25 2012 07:27 bOneSeven wrote:On June 25 2012 07:19 Flippin1337 wrote:
I do not understand this thread at all. I think the queen change is fine, I am a zerg player tho.
Seems to me like there is alot of whine about the zerg having a easyer time reaching the late game, i understand the problem with that but it doesn't seem like terrans are adapting? I saw demuslim play idra yesterday randomly and he played like you did before the change... It's like people expect to play the same way and still win? If you know the zerg will play more greedy why don't you play more greedy? Like 14 cc or 2 rax in double expansion. Seems like people are whining before trying new things, kinda sad imo.
I'm not one to say if there is something wrong but i doubt it. I think terran are favored in the late game against zerg so i do not understand where this is coming from. Terran is the race which scales the best with micro, atleast in my opinion, and i do not understand why you don't want to get into the lategame. Looks to me as terran have the highest skill cap and i think that's why you see so many GSL terran winners. Of course you could discuss if the queen buffs would then be fair on a lower level but meh. I don't get it please explain me the problem, cause it seems a little weird. if zergs sees you get 2 greedy, he can time out a good timing and destroy you. If terran seens zerg is to greedy, he must "deal"" with it. Yea of course we all now zerg have great timings if the terran go tank. And zerg have dealing with early timing attacks for ages vs terrans now the side switched atleast that's what you are saying. Isen't that fair, haven't zerg devolped new styles to counter that? I also wonder why terrans doesn't do the marauder/helion timing alot more, you know the zerg will play greedy like 98% of the time, and he will make like 1 spine. Just wondering. Because 6 Queens can hold that timing off, you don't even really need to make zerglings to defend it. Marauders and hellions can't kill Queens with any kind of efficiency at all, especially with transfuse.
I love this attitude, allows zerg to get away with such greedy play.
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On June 25 2012 07:45 the`postman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 07:40 Filter wrote:On June 25 2012 07:33 Flippin1337 wrote:On June 25 2012 07:27 bOneSeven wrote:On June 25 2012 07:19 Flippin1337 wrote:
I do not understand this thread at all. I think the queen change is fine, I am a zerg player tho.
Seems to me like there is alot of whine about the zerg having a easyer time reaching the late game, i understand the problem with that but it doesn't seem like terrans are adapting? I saw demuslim play idra yesterday randomly and he played like you did before the change... It's like people expect to play the same way and still win? If you know the zerg will play more greedy why don't you play more greedy? Like 14 cc or 2 rax in double expansion. Seems like people are whining before trying new things, kinda sad imo.
I'm not one to say if there is something wrong but i doubt it. I think terran are favored in the late game against zerg so i do not understand where this is coming from. Terran is the race which scales the best with micro, atleast in my opinion, and i do not understand why you don't want to get into the lategame. Looks to me as terran have the highest skill cap and i think that's why you see so many GSL terran winners. Of course you could discuss if the queen buffs would then be fair on a lower level but meh. I don't get it please explain me the problem, cause it seems a little weird. if zergs sees you get 2 greedy, he can time out a good timing and destroy you. If terran seens zerg is to greedy, he must "deal"" with it. Yea of course we all now zerg have great timings if the terran go tank. And zerg have dealing with early timing attacks for ages vs terrans now the side switched atleast that's what you are saying. Isen't that fair, haven't zerg devolped new styles to counter that? I also wonder why terrans doesn't do the marauder/helion timing alot more, you know the zerg will play greedy like 98% of the time, and he will make like 1 spine. Just wondering. Because 6 Queens can hold that timing off, you don't even really need to make zerglings to defend it. Marauders and hellions can't kill Queens with any kind of efficiency at all, especially with transfuse. I love this attitude, allows zerg to get away with such greedy play.
6 Queens with 3 transfuses between them will beat 6 hellions and 6 marauders with only 2 queens dying. If you have 6 or more transfuses then the queens will beat the hellions and marauders without any of the queens dying.
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I can see many people differ from my opinion that's great  But it's easy to see i think terran is favored in the lategame while you think zerg is, so it's hard to really get a discussion of any kind going. I really just don't believe that terrans have tried enough or tried 1 specifik style enough to make some of these conclusions. Im obvly not a terran player i guess you can see that easyly, im just trying to say with for example helion marauder early you could potentially denie the zerg greedyness, even if you can't kill him you can keep denieing his third, or he will be forced to make zerglings to get it, which would denie some economy. There are hundreds of different potential styles and i think you are quitting to fast, but i digress i guess we will see later if i was somewhat right or wrong.
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Being a terran nonkorean pro gamer must be horrible at the moment. The ZvT matchup was the most even matchup for a long time and for whatever reason blizzard decided to nerf it. Why? I dont know but i surely know that seeing latest tournament results(-gsl) terran is doing poorly. At dh the first terran was on the 13th spot and there were tons of good terrans attending. Out of the 12 players before the first terran i didnt know at least 4. At the gigabyte battleground the first 4 spots where all zerg followed by a p. Imo its obvious that at the moment you either buff terran(will never happen anyway) or nerf zerg for example with a different creep spread system or weaker lategame units in some way(reduce fungal radius maybe).
I spoke to some friends about this and the general oppinion was, if you get into lategame and t3 units vs z it gets almost impossible to overcome them.
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[/QUOTE]6 Queens with 3 transfuses between them will beat 6 hellions and 6 marauders with only 2 queens dying. If you have 6 or more transfuses then the queens will beat the hellions and marauders without any of the queens dying.[/QUOTE]
Lol, no just no. Are you sure you are playing sc2?
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On June 25 2012 07:53 SnipedSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 07:45 the`postman wrote:On June 25 2012 07:40 Filter wrote:On June 25 2012 07:33 Flippin1337 wrote:On June 25 2012 07:27 bOneSeven wrote:On June 25 2012 07:19 Flippin1337 wrote:
I do not understand this thread at all. I think the queen change is fine, I am a zerg player tho.
Seems to me like there is alot of whine about the zerg having a easyer time reaching the late game, i understand the problem with that but it doesn't seem like terrans are adapting? I saw demuslim play idra yesterday randomly and he played like you did before the change... It's like people expect to play the same way and still win? If you know the zerg will play more greedy why don't you play more greedy? Like 14 cc or 2 rax in double expansion. Seems like people are whining before trying new things, kinda sad imo.
I'm not one to say if there is something wrong but i doubt it. I think terran are favored in the late game against zerg so i do not understand where this is coming from. Terran is the race which scales the best with micro, atleast in my opinion, and i do not understand why you don't want to get into the lategame. Looks to me as terran have the highest skill cap and i think that's why you see so many GSL terran winners. Of course you could discuss if the queen buffs would then be fair on a lower level but meh. I don't get it please explain me the problem, cause it seems a little weird. if zergs sees you get 2 greedy, he can time out a good timing and destroy you. If terran seens zerg is to greedy, he must "deal"" with it. Yea of course we all now zerg have great timings if the terran go tank. And zerg have dealing with early timing attacks for ages vs terrans now the side switched atleast that's what you are saying. Isen't that fair, haven't zerg devolped new styles to counter that? I also wonder why terrans doesn't do the marauder/helion timing alot more, you know the zerg will play greedy like 98% of the time, and he will make like 1 spine. Just wondering. Because 6 Queens can hold that timing off, you don't even really need to make zerglings to defend it. Marauders and hellions can't kill Queens with any kind of efficiency at all, especially with transfuse. I love this attitude, allows zerg to get away with such greedy play. 6 Queens with 3 transfuses between them will beat 6 hellions and 6 marauders with only 2 queens dying. If you have 6 or more transfuses then the queens will beat the hellions and marauders without any of the queens dying.
Why would you only have 6 marauders and 6 hellions?
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On June 25 2012 07:55 Reaps wrote:
6 Queens with 3 transfuses between them will beat 6 hellions and 6 marauders with only 2 queens dying. If you have 6 or more transfuses then the queens will beat the hellions and marauders without any of the queens dying.[/QUOTE]
Lol, no just no. Are you sure you are playing sc2?
[/QUOTE]
It's not queens that makes mauarder hellion weak but the fact that any OL will scout it 100% now
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On June 25 2012 07:57 the`postman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 07:53 SnipedSoul wrote:On June 25 2012 07:45 the`postman wrote:On June 25 2012 07:40 Filter wrote:On June 25 2012 07:33 Flippin1337 wrote:On June 25 2012 07:27 bOneSeven wrote:On June 25 2012 07:19 Flippin1337 wrote:
I do not understand this thread at all. I think the queen change is fine, I am a zerg player tho.
Seems to me like there is alot of whine about the zerg having a easyer time reaching the late game, i understand the problem with that but it doesn't seem like terrans are adapting? I saw demuslim play idra yesterday randomly and he played like you did before the change... It's like people expect to play the same way and still win? If you know the zerg will play more greedy why don't you play more greedy? Like 14 cc or 2 rax in double expansion. Seems like people are whining before trying new things, kinda sad imo.
I'm not one to say if there is something wrong but i doubt it. I think terran are favored in the late game against zerg so i do not understand where this is coming from. Terran is the race which scales the best with micro, atleast in my opinion, and i do not understand why you don't want to get into the lategame. Looks to me as terran have the highest skill cap and i think that's why you see so many GSL terran winners. Of course you could discuss if the queen buffs would then be fair on a lower level but meh. I don't get it please explain me the problem, cause it seems a little weird. if zergs sees you get 2 greedy, he can time out a good timing and destroy you. If terran seens zerg is to greedy, he must "deal"" with it. Yea of course we all now zerg have great timings if the terran go tank. And zerg have dealing with early timing attacks for ages vs terrans now the side switched atleast that's what you are saying. Isen't that fair, haven't zerg devolped new styles to counter that? I also wonder why terrans doesn't do the marauder/helion timing alot more, you know the zerg will play greedy like 98% of the time, and he will make like 1 spine. Just wondering. Because 6 Queens can hold that timing off, you don't even really need to make zerglings to defend it. Marauders and hellions can't kill Queens with any kind of efficiency at all, especially with transfuse. I love this attitude, allows zerg to get away with such greedy play. 6 Queens with 3 transfuses between them will beat 6 hellions and 6 marauders with only 2 queens dying. If you have 6 or more transfuses then the queens will beat the hellions and marauders without any of the queens dying. Why would you only have 6 marauders and 6 hellions?
Even if he did only have that, good luck to the queens killing them, people forget queens range was buffed, not dps.
He must be new to sc2 or something.
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On June 25 2012 07:55 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +6 Queens with 3 transfuses between them will beat 6 hellions and 6 marauders with only 2 queens dying. If you have 6 or more transfuses then the queens will beat the hellions and marauders without any of the queens dying. Lol, no just no. Are you sure you are playing sc2?
I just went into unit tester and tried it, go and do it yourself.
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On June 25 2012 08:09 SnipedSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 07:55 Reaps wrote:6 Queens with 3 transfuses between them will beat 6 hellions and 6 marauders with only 2 queens dying. If you have 6 or more transfuses then the queens will beat the hellions and marauders without any of the queens dying. Lol, no just no. Are you sure you are playing sc2? I just went into unit tester and tried it, go and do it yourself.
You need to micro.
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On June 25 2012 06:50 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 06:44 Sroobz wrote:On June 25 2012 06:41 FakeDeath wrote:
Personally,i think Blizzard should buff the ravens(maybe HSM cost less,research faster or less raven cost or something) or make BCs viable or buff Ghosts snipe by a bit.
This is coming from a zerg player.
The problem isn't the Queen. It is that Queen buffs allows zerg to reach the lategame much easier and faster and more safer which zerg excels at the lategame that terran has trouble dealing with.
To compete with zerg lategame, i think Terran could used a bit of buff at their late game units(Ghost,BCs especially,Ravens).
Though i dunno how this will affect TvP.
The queen IS a problem! It makes it waaay too easy to get to the late game. Sigh.Did you even read my post? That's why i suggest buffing Terran late game composition a bit to compete with the zergs late game.
It's still a problem. A free pass to the late game is boring. You should be able to hinder a player's ability to tech if you pressure and pressure well. Some of the best games are the scrappy ones where neither player can get high econ and high tech and they battle it out with low and mid tier units for 25 minutes.
Queens as they are make effective pressure without a huge commitment almost impossible, and the last thing this game needs is for Terran to get its own braindead A-move units like colossi and brood lords and turn into a boring turtle race like Protoss and Zerg are becoming.
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On June 25 2012 08:09 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 08:09 SnipedSoul wrote:On June 25 2012 07:55 Reaps wrote:6 Queens with 3 transfuses between them will beat 6 hellions and 6 marauders with only 2 queens dying. If you have 6 or more transfuses then the queens will beat the hellions and marauders without any of the queens dying. Lol, no just no. Are you sure you are playing sc2? I just went into unit tester and tried it, go and do it yourself. You need to micro.
Micro what? Focus firing a queen? Hoping that the queens line up? It literally doesn't matter, zerg will always scout it.
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On June 25 2012 08:12 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 08:09 Reaps wrote:On June 25 2012 08:09 SnipedSoul wrote:On June 25 2012 07:55 Reaps wrote:6 Queens with 3 transfuses between them will beat 6 hellions and 6 marauders with only 2 queens dying. If you have 6 or more transfuses then the queens will beat the hellions and marauders without any of the queens dying. Lol, no just no. Are you sure you are playing sc2? I just went into unit tester and tried it, go and do it yourself. You need to micro. Micro what? Focus firing a queen? Hoping that the queens line up? It literally doesn't matter, zerg will always scout it.
Its like talking to a wall with you, the only thing you have posted in this thread is whines about how your race is weak and how you cant do this and cant do that.
i could argue back and prove you wrong everytime, but like every other balance discussion you will always have something else to say just becauseyou race is not doing so well at the moment (after over one year of being on top) so its pointless, i regret already posting here, i will just leave you to get on with your tears.
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On June 25 2012 08:12 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 08:09 Reaps wrote:On June 25 2012 08:09 SnipedSoul wrote:On June 25 2012 07:55 Reaps wrote:6 Queens with 3 transfuses between them will beat 6 hellions and 6 marauders with only 2 queens dying. If you have 6 or more transfuses then the queens will beat the hellions and marauders without any of the queens dying. Lol, no just no. Are you sure you are playing sc2? I just went into unit tester and tried it, go and do it yourself. You need to micro. Micro what? Focus firing a queen? Hoping that the queens line up? It literally doesn't matter, zerg will always scout it.
You can still denie thirds etc even if it doesn't work, see this is the epitome of giving something up before trying every possibly way to do it.
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On June 25 2012 08:18 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 08:12 Chaggi wrote:On June 25 2012 08:09 Reaps wrote:On June 25 2012 08:09 SnipedSoul wrote:On June 25 2012 07:55 Reaps wrote:6 Queens with 3 transfuses between them will beat 6 hellions and 6 marauders with only 2 queens dying. If you have 6 or more transfuses then the queens will beat the hellions and marauders without any of the queens dying. Lol, no just no. Are you sure you are playing sc2? I just went into unit tester and tried it, go and do it yourself. You need to micro. Micro what? Focus firing a queen? Hoping that the queens line up? It literally doesn't matter, zerg will always scout it. Its like talking to a wall with you, the only thing you have posted in this thread is whines about how your race is weak and how you cant do this and cant do that. i could argue back and prove you wrong everytime, but like every other balance discussion you will always have something else to say just becauseyou race is not doing so well at the moment (after over one year of being on top) so its pointless, i regret already posting here, i will just leave you to get on with your tears.
At least I back up what I say hot stuff. It's okay, just assume that every Zerg magically figured out the matchup and now are dominating cause they are so gosu. Yup
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On June 25 2012 08:24 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 08:18 Reaps wrote:On June 25 2012 08:12 Chaggi wrote:On June 25 2012 08:09 Reaps wrote:On June 25 2012 08:09 SnipedSoul wrote:On June 25 2012 07:55 Reaps wrote:6 Queens with 3 transfuses between them will beat 6 hellions and 6 marauders with only 2 queens dying. If you have 6 or more transfuses then the queens will beat the hellions and marauders without any of the queens dying. Lol, no just no. Are you sure you are playing sc2? I just went into unit tester and tried it, go and do it yourself. You need to micro. Micro what? Focus firing a queen? Hoping that the queens line up? It literally doesn't matter, zerg will always scout it. Its like talking to a wall with you, the only thing you have posted in this thread is whines about how your race is weak and how you cant do this and cant do that. i could argue back and prove you wrong everytime, but like every other balance discussion you will always have something else to say just becauseyou race is not doing so well at the moment (after over one year of being on top) so its pointless, i regret already posting here, i will just leave you to get on with your tears. At least I back up what I say hot stuff. It's okay, just assume that every Zerg magically figured out the matchup and now are dominating cause they are so gosu. Yup
Back up? where's that, would love to see it. All i have seen is wild assumptions.
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On June 25 2012 08:18 Flippin1337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 08:12 Chaggi wrote:On June 25 2012 08:09 Reaps wrote:On June 25 2012 08:09 SnipedSoul wrote:On June 25 2012 07:55 Reaps wrote:6 Queens with 3 transfuses between them will beat 6 hellions and 6 marauders with only 2 queens dying. If you have 6 or more transfuses then the queens will beat the hellions and marauders without any of the queens dying. Lol, no just no. Are you sure you are playing sc2? I just went into unit tester and tried it, go and do it yourself. You need to micro. Micro what? Focus firing a queen? Hoping that the queens line up? It literally doesn't matter, zerg will always scout it. You can still denie thirds etc even if it doesn't work, see this is the epitome of giving something up before trying every possibly way to do it.
No just stop. You're making yourself look silly. A mauarder hellion is an all-in that counted on being able to deny overlords scouting in your base to kill the Zerg before his lair tech can come out. It can't do that anymore cause zergs have better scouting than before. No one wants to rely on a flimsy build that won't work only if your opponent doesn't do gold level shit
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EPT
