EPTAs it looks now, the range buff was probably a bit too much - should probably just gone up by 1.
1 Month later... Is Queen Range still too strong [TvZ]? -…
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This thread is going nowhere and I'm tired of dealing with it. Either drop the personal attacks and whining and replace it with actual discussion or it'll be closed. 12:09 KST Page 98 | ||
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KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
As it looks now, the range buff was probably a bit too much - should probably just gone up by 1. | ||
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shadowboxer
United States224 Posts
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emc
United States3088 Posts
On June 20 2012 15:56 Drowsy wrote: Yes and no. I think the main problem is how outrageously good fungal growth and zerg hive tech are and how few answers terran (and protoss to a lesser extent) has. I think queen range to 4 and making snipe good again would be a decent solution. I would rather see the ghost remain as an anti-spell caster rather than a good unit verse all bio, and instead buff the raven. The science vessel was such a cool unit and had a lot of useful abilities, I would love to see the raven become a more specialized unit that benefits a late game terran. I think defense matrix would be perfect in HotS, it would counter the vipers abduct. | ||
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SyrZulu
80 Posts
If you havent checked it out, Complexity QXC's new innovative creep contain bunker is one of the few great ideas that has not gained much popularity yet in TvZ. Please check it out as it it awesome! http://www.team-dignitas.net/articles/blogs/Starcraft-II/1516/The-QXC-Bunker-A-New-Way-to-Contain-Creep-in-TvZ/ | ||
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RyF
Austria508 Posts
On June 20 2012 15:57 frezMki wrote: No it is not to strong and this thread already exists. T isn't abusing the lack of defence. With commitment you can kill so much drones with your helions since they aren't using any simcity / choke blocks anymore. Since they don't denie the creep and aren't commiting to Eco-Dmg they have a hard time entering the mid/lategame Rangebuff wasn't a DMG-buff T is just losing to his mental fear "OMFG the queens have a higher range now" Guess what?! Higher range -> no Spine , no sim city -> Nothing protecting the drones Watch the DH/MLG Reps. 80% of the Zergs would die to a hellion commitment. hm. u never know what's behind queens. it's a high risk to commit with your hellions. and if there is 3-4 queens hellions die rapidly fast vs them. and even if u kill like 10 drones with like 6-8 hellions u will find yourself behind no mather what. zerg just makes another round of drones and he is fine again. but as a terran u lost 100% of your mapcontrol. zerg is free to take third. u can't fight creep anymore... to play like that is a gamble and nothing else. maybe rewarding in gold league but that's it. | ||
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SyrZulu
80 Posts
On June 20 2012 16:03 shadowboxer wrote: No, it's fine. I bet you that you play Zerg! lol | ||
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sOda~
United Kingdom441 Posts
I bet you that you play Terran! lol | ||
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sevia
United States954 Posts
I don't think that queens got much better. It's just that now the metagame has shifted to a favorable situation for queen openings, and more zergs are getting used to using them. Marine-hellion timings, double-medi stim drops, marauder-hellion all-ins, these things all still work. Two range on two to four units has a miniscule effect on the actual combat. But because of the mentality that accompanies the patch note 'zerg got an early game buff,' terrans have resigned themselves to opening 1 rax CC or 15 CC almost every game, just assuming that zerg will have an economic lead instead of actively fighting to prevent it. If they undid the buff, I really wouldn't care, I don't think my win rate vs. T would drop at all. But I do think that other zergs would continue to use queens and would keep their inflated win rates anyways, at least until terrans figure out that early game pressure is just as important (and easy) vs. queen openings as it is vs. more conventional openings. | ||
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usethis2
2164 Posts
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Callynn
Netherlands917 Posts
The Queen is good against cheesy and boring to play rushes against any matchup, which is great. She should stay the way she is. Game 1: STBomber vs GoSuOstojiy (Metropolis LE) Game 2: StBomber vs GoSuOstojiy (Cloud Kingdom LE) | ||
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stalife
Canada1222 Posts
But I disagree with this idea that terran has to do something before the 12 minute mark to slow down zerg. It should be more or less even throughout all stages of the game. Terrans should not rely on gimmicky strats to slow down zerg. It sucks as a terran to rely on cheesy strats to gain some advantage early on... and on the other hand it sucks as a zerg to constantly battle all ins and coin flip on what defense to make. So in that regard, I fully support the queen range buff. The real problem is that the zergs can safely get to hive tech with one single unit = infestors. They shut down virtually everything terran can throw at in the mid game with high cost efficiency that by hive hits at 12 minute mark, zergs can pop out 12 ultralisks and run over terran. This is ridiculous game design. The fungal growth is an overpowered ability that is more cost efficient than any other unit in the game. It has the ability to immobilize and kill units. This is not seen in any other races. Protoss has sentries that can immobilize, but not kill (unless you have a shit ton). Protoss has HTs that can kill AOE. With sentries and HTs, you can immobilize and kill (but it requires some decent clickings, and it's certainly not one single click). For terrans, you have ghosts. They can snipe (no AOE) to kill, but that's been nerfed. They can do AOE with EMP, but it does not kill regardless of how many EMPs you fire. Terrans however do have ravens that do AOE damage, but it does not immobilize the target. If it can somehow immobilize the target and hit it 100% of the time, sure it would be useful like the infestor, except it costs more gas + energy, and it's not instant hit like fungals. I'm glad that the queen buff was introduced that the terrans no longer resort to early shenanigans to gain advantage. Before, the queens would be afraid to come out to spread out creep. Now they just come out to the open to spread creep because they no longer get countered by hellions. It's a right step forward. | ||
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Catatonic
United States699 Posts
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SyrZulu
80 Posts
On June 20 2012 15:58 PlacidPanda wrote: Anything that is based off avilio really shouldnt be considered as evidence. However I agree that ZvT is unbalanced right now, i believe at spring arena DRG even said the matchup was broken. I am not basing anything off of Avilo lol he just inspired me to make this thread because i want to address the state of TvZ and what people think. | ||
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TheAngryZergling
United States387 Posts
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Amlitzer
United States471 Posts
On June 20 2012 16:09 Callynn wrote: I think the Bomber versus Ostojiy during the last Red Bull BG clearly shows that Hellion can be moved out for a macro ZvT without any problems relating to the Queen. Bomber never used Hellions and crushed Ostojiy 2 - 0 on macro oriented maps using a passive 3base macro on Metropolis into MMM (+ raven BC viking later) and on Cloud Kingdom with a defensive bunker rush into marine tank. The Queen is good against cheesy and boring to play rushes against any matchup, which is great. She should stay the way she is. Game 1: STBomber vs GoSuOstojiy (Metropolis LE) Game 2: StBomber vs GoSuOstojiy (Cloud Kingdom LE) Are you seriously comparing a top korean terran to a foriegner NA zerg and using that match to represent the balance of the TvZ matchup? You are so incredibly full of yourself it is amazing. A player of bombers level should be able to defeat a code b player with relative ease. | ||
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Eruism
United States312 Posts
On June 20 2012 16:11 Catatonic wrote: Now that everyone is doing to terran what terran did to them all you hear is Terrans whining and crying. ??? Zergs and Protosses cried just as much when Terran was dominating. | ||
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Positronic
121 Posts
On June 20 2012 16:11 Catatonic wrote: Now that everyone is doing to terran what terran did to them all you hear is Terrans whining and crying. They'll figure out new ways to harass once the patch is older then it currently is, it's just far too soon to say "Oh yea so imba completely breaks the game I hate it cause now we no long destroy everyone like we used to". I'm just really sick of all this Terran crying that's been going on since the Ghost nerf that was completely needed. Never have I heard one race whine as much as Terrans have now that they aren't winning 60% of the total games they play but are now around 50ish which is where it should be. So please guys just stop crying about all this imba patch shit when it's way to early to tell cause there's no adaption being made on your part while you're crying. How bout rather then cry you figure a way to harass it'll benefit you alot more trust me. (Sorry for the likely huge amount of grammatical error's it's 3:10am and I'm just waaay past exhausted at the current moment.) GLHF guys cause in the end it's only a game and one the vast majority of us should be having fun with since we're not pro gamers Yeah the Ghost nerf was completely necessary because Terran has so many other late game options. | ||
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SyrZulu
80 Posts
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AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
On June 20 2012 16:17 Positronic wrote: Yeah the Ghost nerf was completely necessary because Terran has so many other late game options. sssh, we have the raven. It dominates the late game stages. | ||
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TORTOISE
United States515 Posts
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