EPTNow that phase doesn't exist anymore, it's skipped and won by default and with a large margin by the zerg player.
1 Month later... Is Queen Range still too strong [TvZ]? -…
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This thread is going nowhere and I'm tired of dealing with it. Either drop the personal attacks and whining and replace it with actual discussion or it'll be closed. 12:09 KST Page 98 | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
Now that phase doesn't exist anymore, it's skipped and won by default and with a large margin by the zerg player. | ||
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Theovide
Sweden914 Posts
On June 21 2012 10:49 MrCon wrote: But the hellion creep contain was an awesome element to the matchup. Sometimes zergs managed to sneak a drone. Sometimes they hid tumors. They had to leapfrog spines. To try ling surrounds. That added a dynamic in the matchup, and the player that handled that phase the best entered the midgame with a small advantage. Terran had to babyseat his hellions, zerg had to try to catch him off guard. It rewarded skill ffs. Now that phase doesn't exist anymore, it's skipped and won by default by the zerg player. Personally I feel by default worse than when I had my helions surrounded, then at least I knew the zerg had to invest his larva and minerals in other things than drones, and that I had delayed him starting his third until he had done so. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On June 21 2012 10:16 Shewklad wrote: No he doesn't. He said on twitter he did what had to be done. Well Ret was asking for it. He always does the same build every game. And he drones super hard. He is by far the greediest Zerg, even more so then Idra. | ||
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Frequencyy
United States344 Posts
I also feel that hellions are actually just pointless in this match-up now, they can hardly deny creep spread and they don't have nearly as many uses, you can tell that pros are using hellions less and less. | ||
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Neurosis
United States893 Posts
On June 21 2012 10:55 GinDo wrote: Well Ret was asking for it. He always does the same build every game. And he drones super hard. He is by far the greediest Zerg, even more so then Idra. Yeah but the point is still that zerg has such a massive advantage over terran it's not even funny. HoTS needs to just come out already, WoL's balance is completely unfixable. | ||
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RancidTurnip
United States105 Posts
On June 21 2012 11:08 Neurosis wrote: Yeah but the point is still that zerg has such a massive advantage over terran it's not even funny. HoTS needs to just come out already, WoL's balance is completely unfixable. Just a tad dramatic, don't you think? The fix would be as easy as rolling back a patch. | ||
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Neurosis
United States893 Posts
On June 21 2012 11:12 RancidTurnip wrote: Just a tad dramatic, don't you think? The fix would be as easy as rolling back a patch. It was broken before imo and now it's just retarded. All this time Zergs just haven't been using any all ins whereas pro terrans have. How is it fair that every terran opener and all in has been nerfed yet zergs have been left untouched. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On June 21 2012 10:55 Frequencyy wrote: I am a terran player and I feel that zerg actually just needed a Queen buff and yeah terran has been nerfed very hard the past few months but terran doesn't have to have super aggressive openings, most terrans now are just converting to super eco styles like 1 rax expand and then you can easily transition into a harass build like medivac drops, especially if zerg gets greedy and grabs a quick third base. Also going extremely fast upgrades is effective as zergs find themselves becoming more greedy than ever as they feel so safe with their insane creep spreads and 4+ queens. I feel as though terran is becoming weaker and weaker however we have to find a way to adapt until the game changes. I also feel that hellions are actually just pointless in this match-up now, they can hardly deny creep spread and they don't have nearly as many uses, you can tell that pros are using hellions less and less. needed a BUFF but not from 3->5 for queens AND an overlord speed increase if you did 3->4 queens and a slight overlord speed increase that would be fine or if you really want to do 3->5 on the queens (to help with all-ins, ok) but then you shouldn't also give them even EASIER scouting then. you EITHER give them better scouting to make better decisions on the larvae OR give them the ability to hold the all-ins better with a unit they can somewhat rely on. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On June 21 2012 10:55 Frequencyy wrote: I am a terran player and I feel that zerg actually just needed a Queen buff and yeah terran has been nerfed very hard the past few months but terran doesn't have to have super aggressive openings, most terrans now are just converting to super eco styles like 1 rax expand and then you can easily transition into a harass build like medivac drops, especially if zerg gets greedy and grabs a quick third base. Also going extremely fast upgrades is effective as zergs find themselves becoming more greedy than ever as they feel so safe with their insane creep spreads and 4+ queens. I feel as though terran is becoming weaker and weaker however we have to find a way to adapt until the game changes. I also feel that hellions are actually just pointless in this match-up now, they can hardly deny creep spread and they don't have nearly as many uses, you can tell that pros are using hellions less and less. Fast upgrades in now a necessity anyway. 1 year+ ago we'd often see 2/2 or 3/3 terran armies fighting 1-0 lings, now it's the contrary. Zerg has too much money early game, making 2 evo and upgrading isn't a investment anymore, it's just a mean to keep their money low. We had a good example today, Maru made a "quick" 2 bases push on DRG. He catch DRG at the perfect timing. He just started a 4th, and 5th, his spire just finished and he spent mass resources on mutas and on +1 +1. 2 months ago it was THE perfect timing. Well not this time, Maru was 0-0 and his push was decimated. Yes it's DRG. But a 2 bases push that can't kill a quick 5 base (lol ><) that also techs to everything and buys every upgrade just doesn't feel right. There is more than this simple explanation to this game tho but meh. | ||
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NaEjeOn88
United States134 Posts
Poll: Should this negative thread be closed? No (55) Yes (8) 63 total votes Your vote: Should this negative thread be closed? | ||
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Theovide
Sweden914 Posts
On June 21 2012 11:16 NaEjeOn88 wrote: Poll: Should this negative thread be closed? No (55) Yes (8) 63 total votes Your vote: Should this negative thread be closed? Lol? Should this "negative" thread be closed? Way to include your suggested answer in the question ._. | ||
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RancidTurnip
United States105 Posts
On June 21 2012 11:18 Theovide wrote: Lol? Should this "negative" thread be closed? Way to include your suggested answer in the question ._. Please sir, point me towards the last positive or constructive thing said. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On June 21 2012 11:21 RancidTurnip wrote: Please sir, point me towards the last positive or constructive thing said. Because your intervention (or the poll) in this thread is highly constructive... | ||
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TyrionSC2
United States411 Posts
Why can't it become the same with hellion AND banshee? That build is really powerful and can do the same thing that the old reactor hellion did. I guess it's a little bit too soon to say where exactly terrans should be going, but it looks like terrans are doing 1 of 2 things in the matchup: 1rax fe -> reactor hellion + banshee (with or without cloak) -> fast 3rd -> 2x ebay and add lot of rax OR 1rax fe -> hellion marauder with light marine count, go with +1 and 2 medivacs. I still think it's early to say zerg is imba. The game changed, but that tends to happen in favor of one race or another and everybody jumps on the imba imba imba bandwagon saying that they experimented a ton and there is nothing that can be done only for somebody to figure something out a little bit later with a more complete understanding of the timings. I'm not convinced yet. | ||
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ScienceNotBusiness
United States91 Posts
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Vekalisk
Australia137 Posts
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On June 21 2012 11:39 Vekalisk wrote: Just like every other patch the race will find a way to deal with it. This happens every god damn patch. There is no way to deal with the Queens and Creep right now. You can try to to ignore it or proxy but the rest meh. "Pressure builds" right now cannot force the Zerg to build units these days so they almost became obsolete. I mean the best Helion/Banshees actually do is hold watchtowers for a while | ||
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Theovide
Sweden914 Posts
On June 21 2012 11:39 Vekalisk wrote: Just like every other patch the race will find a way to deal with it. This happens every god damn patch. With that logic nerfing or buffing things actually doesn't matter. We might aswell double the damage of marines, the race(s) will find a way to deal with it. | ||
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Im_hell
United States16 Posts
you guys think this is balanced and terran didnt figure stuff out 1st of all what unit can control creep early game? marines? queens kill marines marauders? terran rushing for marauders will die to lings reapers? it can harass early game but can't control creep ghosts? comes out too late hellions? queens kill hellions tanks? comes out too late thors? comes out too late banshee? queens kill banshees there is no way to control creep lets talk about harassing 3rd every push w/out medivacs will die to spine crawlers(unless its an all-in), and since zerg only makes drones making spine crawlers not that of a big deal what about after mid-game(after 2 med) zerg got lairs up w/ AMAZING eco. zerg is on very comfrotable spot and can take 4th comfortably what about late-game? infestor broods is "unbeatable" lets talk about unit combo bio-only last until hive tech and ling bling muta completely counters it bio mech- stephano's 16min ultra build completely counters it mech- its impossible to secure 3rd (drop on main, and attack in 3rd, mech CAN'T deal w/ dat) sky terran-its really expensive and can't be done unless zerg is stupid terran can't win vs zerg w/out early game harassment and queen buff just shut that down IMMvp defend all terran cheese and all-ins w/ 6queen opening (except 11/11 rax) blizzard needs to do something about this now | ||
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Crisco
1170 Posts
On June 21 2012 11:55 Im_hell wrote: You zergs are just too stupid you guys think this is balanced and terran didnt figure stuff out 1st of all what unit can control creep early game? marines? queens kill marines marauders? terran rushing for marauders will die to lings reapers? it can harass early game but can't control creep ghosts? comes out too late hellions? queens kill hellions tanks? comes out too late thors? comes out too late banshee? queens kill banshees cause writing out a list of direct counters to each unit proves the matchup is imbalanced | ||
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