EPT1 Month later... Is Queen Range still too strong [TvZ]? -…
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This thread is going nowhere and I'm tired of dealing with it. Either drop the personal attacks and whining and replace it with actual discussion or it'll be closed. 12:09 KST Page 98 | ||
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AgentChaos
United Kingdom4569 Posts
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Bluerain
United States348 Posts
On June 21 2012 05:53 CarlosOmse wrote: dont know if it was posted yet but just saw this on Goodys facebook red=zerg green=toss blue=terran ![[image loading]](http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/2509/tgth.jpg) who cares? if you do that for GSL up until this season, its gonna be all blue. | ||
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SaberNodoka
151 Posts
On June 21 2012 06:19 Bluerain wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 21 2012 05:53 CarlosOmse wrote: dont know if it was posted yet but just saw this on Goodys facebook red=zerg green=toss blue=terran who cares? if you do that for GSL up until this season, its gonna be all blue. I think it is to show that the recent buff to zerg has skewed the results that way if you didnt realise it. | ||
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CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr
544 Posts
On June 21 2012 06:19 Bluerain wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 21 2012 05:53 CarlosOmse wrote: dont know if it was posted yet but just saw this on Goodys facebook red=zerg green=toss blue=terran who cares? if you do that for GSL up until this season, its gonna be all blue. who cared when zerg won 2gsls in a row ? nobody thats right, the zergs players were genius. fuck you Mvp | ||
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Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
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Blyadischa
419 Posts
On June 21 2012 06:24 Apolo wrote: Exactly. Terrans are used to put pressure and control the game early on. I wonder what it would be like, if the roles got reversed and Terran had to be the one to defend all the early game. I wonder if they would call that just pressure or imbalance. Not having consistently above 50% winrate for the first time since SC2 came out must hurt. Not even close to being the same situation. Terran has the worst lategame, or pretty much no late game composition that is effective. If you say ravens then you suck. Terran HAS to pressure early/mid game or they lose. Now Terran can't pressure early/mid game, thus the 65% Zerg winrate in Korean ZvT | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On June 21 2012 06:19 Bluerain wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 21 2012 05:53 CarlosOmse wrote: dont know if it was posted yet but just saw this on Goodys facebook red=zerg green=toss blue=terran who cares? if you do that for GSL up until this season, its gonna be all blue. Considering only Sniper and Line lost TvZ's against some of the most experienced T's in Supernova,Happy and MVP i don't see how GSL is relevant in balance discussion. Most Terran got through by playing TvP and TvT while avoiding TvZ like a plague. | ||
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Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
On June 21 2012 06:27 Blyadischa wrote: Not even close to being the same situation. Terran has the worst lategame, or pretty much no late game composition that is effective. If you say ravens then you suck. Terran HAS to pressure early/mid game or they lose. Now Terran can't pressure early/mid game, thus the 65% Zerg winrate in Korean ZvT Yes, but one doesn't fix a problem by adding another right? Having an early game advantage to compensate for late game disadvantage, if there is one, really is a poor solution in my view. | ||
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TranceKuja
United States154 Posts
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On June 21 2012 06:30 TranceKuja wrote: I've seen marine openers(no hellions) do really well against mass queens. Which don't work in bigger Maps . Its also a big risk eve the opponent goes for something you didn't forsee. | ||
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HomeWorld
Romania903 Posts
 PS: this is just a way of making fun of current SC2 situation, it doesn't mean I'm right  | ||
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TG Manny
United States325 Posts
On June 21 2012 06:24 Apolo wrote: Not having consistently above 50% winrate for the first time since SC2 came out must hurt I hope you realize we've been hearing this for more than 6 months now since Protoss has been kicking low-league ass with strong AoE and EMP nerfs. Just saying. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On June 21 2012 06:24 Apolo wrote: Exactly. Terrans are used to put pressure and control the game early on. I wonder what it would be like, if the roles got reversed and Terran had to be the one to defend all the early game. I wonder if they would call that just pressure or imbalance. What this discussion feels now, and it might be a wrong feeling, is that terrans are feeling unscousicously "oh they can deal with our early game (albeit small) imbalance now, that feels wrong." and rationalizing it as being UP. Not having consistently above 50% winrate for the first time since SC2 came out must hurt and make it think things are imbalanced when in fact, at least according to Blizzards last comments, they're as close to 50% as they ever were. I just don't understand how people think what balance means. We thrive for a balance game right now, not a skew in period and period. Just because Terran dominated 1 year ago doesn't mean Zerg needs to dominate 1 year to get it even. If you think that's how balance is supposed to be, why not buff Queen to range 10, and fungal deal 100 damage to make sure Zerg will dominate for one year and then nerf it down? | ||
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eourcs
United States459 Posts
On June 21 2012 06:29 Apolo wrote: Yes, but one doesn't fix a problem by adding another right? Having an early game advantage to compensate for late game disadvantage really is a poor solution in my view. I believe this might put terran and zerg on even footing at earlier stages, perhaps later game something should be adressed in favor of terran, even in TvP. Right now Terran has a disadvantage in every facet of the game. Early game, terran can either play very safe and then be behind against a zerg that just makes 80 drones, or they can play greedy (think every MKP builds) where they are susceptible to roach/baneling allins. Midgame, ling/infestor is simply better than a marine/tank in those numbers, especially with zergs that actually use flanks. Lategame, Terrans get shit on. Ravens in their current iteration are not really a practical solution, if they were slightly faster, or seeker missile cost less energy, or if they were less expensive, then yes, ravens could a solution. Beforehand, terran could slow down zerg and not have to play ultra-greedy by being aggressive early-game, now they can't. Hence every terran getting raped. Yes it's shitty design, but it's been a flaw in terran for the last 2 years and Blizzard doesn't seem like they care to change it until HOTS. | ||
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cosmo.6792
161 Posts
On June 21 2012 05:53 CarlosOmse wrote: dont know if it was posted yet but just saw this on Goodys facebook red=zerg green=toss blue=terran Poor sampling can lead to misleading conclusions. Those are mostly foreign tournaments up there. As most people are already aware, foreigners are notoriously mediocre with Terran. The best American and European pros are mostly Zerg and Protoss. If you look at win statistics before and after the patch, you'll notice that foreign terrans lag behind foreign zergs and toss. For a proper assessment of Terran play, you'd have to look at korean tournaments. That's where the best Terrans play. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
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SnowFox2ne1
United States52 Posts
Terran have been imba for a long time, but nerfing every aspect of the terran metagame is hardly going to fix anything. A lot of the patches I have agreed that Terran needed tweeking because of the fact it was simply too easy for us to do certain things. The point we are all trying to make is that this may have taken it a little too far, and just because MVP can win a GSL 4-3, doesn't mean terran isn't in an insanely hard place right now. I just want to avoid blizzard balance, where one race gets shit on for 2-3 months with a designated flavor of the month like in WoW. Everyone who is complaining about this either doesn't understand why it wasn't needed; or they can't understand how they allow late game TvP (and arguably ZvP/PvZ late game) but find find this to be a needed change instead of addressing real issues with the game. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On June 21 2012 06:37 s3rp wrote: One serious question though why don't techreactors as an upgrade at an lets say fusioncore to make transitions in lategame armies easier for Terran ? It would make transitions easier, but it doesn't make the T3 any better anyways | ||
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HomeWorld
Romania903 Posts
On June 21 2012 06:36 eourcs wrote: Right now Terran has a disadvantage in every facet of the game. Early game, terran can either play very safe and then be behind against a zerg that just makes 80 drones, or they can play greedy (think every MKP builds) where they are susceptible to roach/baneling allins. Midgame, ling/infestor is simply better than a marine/tank in those numbers, especially with zergs that actually use flanks. Lategame, Terrans get shit on. Ravens in their current iteration are not really a practical solution, if they were slightly faster, or seeker missile cost less energy, or if they were less expensive, then yes, ravens could a solution. Beforehand, terran could slow down zerg and not have to play ultra-greedy by being aggressive early-game, now they can't. Hence every terran getting raped. Yes it's shitty design, but it's been a flaw in terran for the last 2 years and Blizzard doesn't seem like they care to change it until HOTS. Hey, even in HoTS , terrrans won't be on the same fighting ground, I might be wrong, we still have to see how the mines will affect the gameplay, as for the warhound I think that unit will have the same fate as cattlebruisers/ravens as in not very useful. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
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