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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On June 17 2012 04:46 emc wrote: it's a troll, he is making fun of the BW elitists who think every unit has a use when in fact, the devourer had virtually no use, ever. Well that would have been good it is actually me failing after being awake for 5 minutes lol  I enjoy BW but you are right that i like neither BW nor sc2 elitists  | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
On June 17 2012 01:23 lorestarcraft wrote: Have you guys seriously played BW? That game is awful! And it's not even close to the level of balance that SC2 is. They just "balanced" it through maps and even then, 1 race is seriously UP. Dustin Browder's enthusiasm for the game and his team dedication to balance and creative is awesome. Any who say other-wise are talking from their butts. nice flame war attempt, but you have no idea, what your talking about | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
On June 17 2012 04:47 SupLilSon wrote: Since the Goliath exists in the single player would it be possible to have a mod that swaps that model for the warhound? That would fix a lot for me. The aesthetics of the HOTS terran units doesn't sit well with me and that was always one of my favorite aspects of Blizzard games, the incredible art design. if you wanted, you could probably replace the thor with a goliath right now, there might be some odd spacing around the thor because the goliath model is much smaller, but it's definitely possible just do some research. | ||
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toiletCAT
Qatar284 Posts
On June 17 2012 04:47 SupLilSon wrote: Since the Goliath exists in the single player would it be possible to have a mod that swaps that model for the warhound? That would fix a lot for me. The aesthetics of the HOTS terran units doesn't sit well with me and that was always one of my favorite aspects of Blizzard games, the incredible art design. You can swap any model. I've swapped my Zerglings out with Probes. Pesky bastards! | ||
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Spawkuring
United States755 Posts
I'd say the infester was pretty well designed, but something really needs to be done about the colossus, marauder, and roach. Mindless 1a units need to be cut down on, not expanded. I don't want the warhound to be another marauder. | ||
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oZii
United States1198 Posts
On June 17 2012 04:18 TeslasPigeon wrote: This is almost never the case when it comes to consumer spending. In fact I would argue that people would be more willing to spend money on familiar items than novel ones. Look at movies, some of the more successful movies are sequels, prequels, or reboots. This isn't because Hollywood is uncreative, it is because people are less reluctant to spend money on something they don't know will be good or not. Some companies or studios will take chances and create something successful and other times they will fail, most will rehash the same thing year after year because it sells. Take video games for example. Call of Duty and Battlefield series, no major changes have occurred in the BF series for at least 10 years. Yet the game is successful. Call of Duty is the same thing year after year and highly successful. Angry Birds continues to make millions. Blizzard would of made money regardless of the outcome of SC2. Game reviewers would of given it perfect scores as they did, because they are paid to and any one who said otherwise would be denounced as a "hater." People bought SC2 not because it was something "new" and "ground breaking," but it was similar to brood war and newish. I mean the only reason why people put up with SC2 is that it is the only decent RTS out there with a semblance of balance. Blizzard has no competition for competitive RTS and they know it. You can't compare games to movies. I am going to see the new Batman movie not because its similar to part 1. The main character is the same but they aren't going to go over how batman became batman in part 3. No need for backstory and thats just one example. Call of Duty and Battlefield had no major changes because people like the multiplayer so they don't want to do anything drastic. Wait people love starcraft 2 multiplayer so they don't want to do anything to drastic. We are talking guns and grenades and kill streaks. 1 bad unit in starcraft can really change the entire game. In the end the guns are just skins change the accuracy, recoil, etc the way you balance 1 gun in CoD is pretty much how you would balance all the guns. You don't balance the hydralisk the same as you do a Marauder. Or a Zergling the same as you do Void ray. In Cod and BF everyone has access to pretty much the same equipment. Its not like player 2 gets the BFG and nobody on the battlefield has access to it. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16056 Posts
Not that I wouldn't trade Banelings for Lurkers any day of the week but that's just kind of how it is. | ||
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petered
United States1817 Posts
On June 17 2012 04:10 snakeeyez wrote: Yeah I always found it odd in starcraft 2 they said lurker had no role when people complained it was missing so then in expansion they put in a dumber version of a lurker. Nothing they do makes any real sense and they even contradict themselves. Im glad I dont play this game competitively because the balance is a mess. they didn't say the lurker had no role, they said it overlapped with the baneling (which is very true). The swarm host is not a dumber version of the lurker, it is an entirely different unit with a different role. People see a unit that only attacks when burrowed, but the unit will play out extremely differently than the lurker. It isn't even meant to do the same thing. Lurkers are at their best in burst AOEing down groups of units. This unit will be at its best in long drawn out engagements. Balance is a mess? Check out tourney and ladder results, which suggest otherwise. Look, I don't mind people criticizing SC2. The game has flaws to be sure. Don't spout bullshit just because you don't like the game, though. Your post, along with many others, is filled with exaggeration, hyperbole, and straight up lies. I'm also glad you don't play the game competitively, but for different reasons. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On June 17 2012 04:32 mrtomjones wrote: Wow ok. So the colossus DOESNT die anytime you see lots of vikings etc? The defiler wasnt almost always a good idea to have in ZvT BW!? There were no units in BW that were similar!? OH wait there were. The Defiler created interesting, dynamic gameplay. The Colossus/Roach/Marauder do not, and this is an incredibly basic and obvious difference between the two. | ||
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Angel_
United States1617 Posts
On June 17 2012 01:00 jalstar wrote: It's lose-lose for Blizzard. If they bring back exact copies they get flamed for lacking creativity. If they add new units they get flamed because there was nothing wrong with BW units, so why change them? To add to this, broodwar units with our current ui would actually be hell incarnate for some things. And secondly, in today's community where people expect blizzard to be involved and patching and attentive, there are some units that just don't work well. | ||
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On June 17 2012 04:54 Stratos_speAr wrote: The Defiler created interesting, dynamic gameplay. The Colossus/Roach/Marauder do not, and this is an incredibly basic and obvious difference between the two. Great argument there. Oh you edited out the insult before I managed to quote you. Fun. Did the marine make for interesting dynamic gameplay? Funny because its very similar to the marine. There were many units that I would argue were in BW that did not make for interesting gameplay. Many of them were only game changes because their control was so god awful(Dragoons). | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16056 Posts
On June 17 2012 04:54 Stratos_speAr wrote: The Defiler created interesting, dynamic gameplay. The Colossus/Roach/Marauder do not, and this is an incredibly basic and obvious difference between the two. The Defiler was a caster, I don't really feel it's fair to compare it to basic units like those. If you want to compare the Defiler to anything it would have to be with the Infestor. A better argument would be to compare the Collosus to the Reaver (The Reaver required constant babysitting and micro to be effective but was a fun unit to watch as a spectator) the Marauder to the Firebat (different units with different roles, but essentially equally compelling) and the Roach to the tier 1 Hydralisk (which functions very similarly to the Hydralisk in brood war except that it lacks anti-air but has burrow regeneration and movement mechanics at lair tech.) | ||
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toiletCAT
Qatar284 Posts
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On June 17 2012 04:59 Vindicare605 wrote: The Defiler was a caster, I don't really feel it's fair to compare it to basic units like those. If you want to compare the Defiler to anything it would have to be with the Infestor. A better argument would be to compare the Collosus to the Reaver (The Reaver required constant babysitting and micro to be effective but was a fun unit to watch as a spectator) the Marauder to the Firebat (different units with different roles, but essentially equally compelling) and the Roach to the tier 1 Hydralisk (which functions very similarly to the Hydralisk in brood war except that it lacks anti-air but has burrow regeneration and movement mechanics at lair tech.) Yah fair enough but I was only arguing the point that some units will always be built because they are a mainstay for that race. But yah your point is well taken | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2268 Posts
On June 17 2012 04:45 mrtomjones wrote: BW wasn't balanced. Terran has WAY more championships than both the others, various matchups are imbalanced but all had a favorable matchup, and he is right about them balancing things with the maps instead of patch changes(although the them was the players/tournament holders). terran winning more championships has a lot more to do with the map pools than race balance. The only exception is  Flash. | ||
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Mauldo
United States750 Posts
SC2 doesn't bring back every single god damned BW unit want back because *it's not BW.* Someone quoted Browder on the first page, you should heed his advice. Go play BW if you think it's a better game, because it's a great game. But making threads on TL or posting snippy bullshit every few weeks about how bad SC2 is isn't going to help you any. They've brought back the basic Starcraft units, and they're bringing back others in reimagined ways. No one will tell you that the Swarm Host isn't a reimagined version of the Lurker. And that's great, because I didn't buy SC2 for BW with better graphics. I bought it for SC2, which Browder is giving me. I swear. If they gave you BW elitists your units you wouldn't say "Now THIS is a great game!" you'd say "Lolol, lazy Blizzard just giving us BW with better graphics. Can't fool me." They can't fool you, and you can't fool us. I'm sorry BW is dying. I really am. Seems like a great game that had a great run, some great games, and some great memories. But that doesn't mean you should come over and start trying to enforce your will on the SC2 forums like it's some enlightened Will of the Gods that we lowly mortals just can't accept, then start flaming our favorite game and Blizzard when we don't agree. It just gets everyone riled up, which doesn't help anyone. | ||
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oZii
United States1198 Posts
On June 17 2012 04:10 snakeeyez wrote: Yeah I always found it odd in starcraft 2 they said lurker had no role when people complained it was missing so then in expansion they put in a dumber version of a lurker. Nothing they do makes any real sense and they even contradict themselves. Im glad I dont play this game competitively because the balance is a mess. From this thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=343635 Initial Thoughts: Wow. Just wow. Locusts are good. While playing Celebreth we found out that not only do they have minor range but they also can hit air. This is an insanely good unit at this stage in the game. Coupled with support of any kind the constant pressure that these Swarm Hosts can put on is impressive. This definitely opens up an aggressive playstyle for Zerg that did not exist before. I daresay it is actually a little too strong... So your lurkers hit air in BW? I call hax! | ||
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AsymptoticClimax
United Kingdom249 Posts
On June 17 2012 03:27 Poplicola wrote: Yes, the carrier taught them a valuable lesson indeed: give up instantly without even trying. I never played bw for the record and alas do not have a nostalgic attachment to the bw carrier. I thought someone might say something like that. Originally the carrier was going to be cut out but because so many people requested it to stay and blizzard kept it in WoL even though it's role doesn't fit directly in WoL. I'd rather see blizzard try something original and take what the fans want with a pinch of minerals because those who speak out are usually the minority although we're seeing the tempest which seems a little funky and I love it. im zerg so we will see how long that statement holds true XD but for now it's cool.. It's different. and what we're seeing is Blizzard going 50/50 on the units and compromising with the fans to blizzards needs like the viper/swarmhost/oracle etc which im okay with. as long as they are designed for sc2 thats fine. unlike the carrier you see. | ||
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HeroMystic
United States1217 Posts
He made a comparison from SC2 to BW with throwing a Ball to throwing a Frisbee. With throwing a ball, you can throw underhand, overhand, curveball, fastball, etc, but in the end it's always going to go in one direction. However, there's a lot more you can do with a Frisbee. SC2 as a whole feels like a game where it's more about a combination of units compared to BW, where it's about getting the most out of one or a small patch of units. The potential of the SC2 units are far less than the potential of the BW units. I'd say the only units that are exempt from this are the Marine, Stalker, and Infestor. Every other unit is "What you see, is what you get". This is why I harped on the counter system that SC2 has, because SC2 has to rely on that. The Marauder and Colossus are the biggest culprits of this, while the Roach is to a lesser extent. It's also why Terrans are extremely annoyed with the Warhound, because it's seemingly a very specific unit with little potential. | ||
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