EPT[Concept] Line of Sight Blocking Ability - Page 4
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MagmaPunch
Bulgaria536 Posts
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Grovbolle
Denmark3805 Posts
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CanadianSCgamer
Canada64 Posts
On June 15 2012 19:59 ZenithM wrote: Yes, exactly. Really not that useful at all... Yes, and that's exactly why this is a good ability. It takes skill to use and it is dynamic. It might be terrible if not used correctly, but extremely powerful if it is. Be creative guys! Mutas/Colossus/Viking can all be shot by Terran Anti-Air. Destroy enemy vision and you will gain a huge advantage. If not, then the battle will be the same as it is without this ability, nothing will be different from any regular fight anyways. Also, try and catch your enemy off guard. It is impossible to pay attention all the time and keep the max vision. If this isn't true, then Terrans currently would never be able to sneak tanks slightly into Siege range, but not vision range, to destroy unknowing enemy tanks. | ||
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bhfberserk
Canada390 Posts
But then again, this overlaps with the Viper's blinding cloud (if it is still in the game). The concept is like cloak, Dark swarm. Vision thing can be counter by a scan or flying units. So this is definitely a viable and balance ablity. In the pictures you have showed, it is confusing because you use the smoke wall mechanic. I was confused at first seeing each players POV. But it could just be changed into a cloud thing. | ||
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Roarer
Hong Kong124 Posts
TvT : the ability can limit marine marauders sight range... but Terran can neutralize it with scans or a floating barrack. On the other hand medivac will be out @ around 10:00. Once medivac is out, the smake screen is more or less useless. Even if the tanking guy go for vikings, you need 3 vikings to 2 shot a medivac.... so ...the marauder Terran can push with 2 medivac @ 10:00 saving 1 scan. In short, the screen is useless in "main" engagement after 10:00. If we only look at its usefulness before 10:00, assuming you go 1 rax expand... the earliest tank you can get is about 7:15. As a result, you can only have 1 to 3 tanks to hold off the marauder pushes before 10:00. The ability has to be effective for having only 3 tanks. The tanking better to be able to lay at least 2 layers of smoke screen before 10:00 or else the ability will be actually useless( to waste 1 scan, then the MM will not be able to push through the second layer). TvP: Can be useful against stalkers, since they cannot blink into places with no vision, and also delay the charge on zealots. However, every standard protoss will have observer out @ 7:30 which can allow it to see through the screen. After 12:30, most protoss will have colossus out which can give vision. Then the effectiveness of the ability will come down to observer sniping which protoss will have the upper hand most of the time. In conclusion, the ability has very limited uses in straight up TvP engagement. TvZ: It's useless on creeps and after mutalisks are out, so the window for it to be useful will be between 7:15 to 9:00 ( assuming 1 rax expo again). However, the smoke screen can help a ton in counter attacks. Zergs will hardly have spotters when they are doing counter attacks.. and they may be scared and retreat once they took 1 tank shot cuz they have no idea how many more is back there. In straight up defense, they can neutralize roaches, which tanks always do, but it forces the zerg to poke through the screen with either muta or overlord/overseers.I guess everyone knows that marine can kill these units quite easily, thus delaying the push. This can bring some new dynamic to the match up^ ^ . The ability can be really useful in TvZ then. In conclusion, the ability is only useful for retreat in most match-ups. It is really interesting in TvZ. Terran can hardly benefit from it in any form agressions and the timing window for it to shine is very small. Thus, I would say that the ability should come free with tanks. Any upgrades delaying it to make an impact in the game might be too much. Moreover, if we want the ability to have an impact in the late games, it needs a buff. Maybe something like units in the smoke screen have increased chance to miss unless the targets were tracked by sensor towers. | ||
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
Think TvP, terran have always air control, always. You can't bring observer there coz there is always raven. As protoss you would never get vision to terran army. HUGE NO. I don't want more imbalanced thing to hots than there at the moment is. | ||
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Rocno
Australia25 Posts
Just a idea: What about if the smoke screen was fired off by marauders rather than tanks? This would be great for people doing bio in tvt against mech or marine tank, especially at lower leagues (like myself) where I dont really have the multitasking skill to do a huge amount of harassment or micro with bio but I also hate using tanks in tvt, the smoke screen could allow a bio ball to get closer to tank lines unseen potentially avoiding one or two tank volley's in the process. Potentially making direct head to head bio pushes more viable. I would love to see more pro's go bio in tvt matches and this might make it more viable | ||
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Roarer
Hong Kong124 Posts
On June 15 2012 20:28 Rocno wrote: A smoke screen actually sounds like a great idea, if blizzard tried this I think the tvt match up would be a whole lot more interesting Just a idea: What about if the smoke screen was fired off by marauders rather than tanks? This would be great for people doing bio in tvt against mech or marine tank, especially at lower leagues (like myself) where I dont really have the multitasking skill to do a huge amount of harassment or micro with bio but I also hate using tanks in tvt, the smoke screen could allow a bio ball to get closer to tank lines unseen potentially avoiding one or two tank volley's in the process. Potentially making direct head to head bio pushes more viable. I would love to see more pro's go bio in tvt matches and this might make it more viable The OP idea is to promote more positional play, which suits better for tanks. If it is given to the marauders, it actually does the opposite of the OP's intention. It make countering tanks easier, i.e. breaking positions. | ||
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Jinsho
United Kingdom3101 Posts
It has to mean nothing in TvT as scans have to see through, otherwise whoever fires the first smoke shells wins, and it would greatly mess up TvZ and TvP. | ||
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On June 15 2012 20:50 Jinsho wrote: This idea is, of course, absolute rubbish. It has to mean nothing in TvT as scans have to see through, otherwise whoever fires the first smoke shells wins, and it would greatly mess up TvZ and TvP. I have to agree with this. The intention is great, but the execution was just poor. TvT would just be a LoS battle, while this would IMO make Tank/Marine much harder to deal with as Zerg. Doesn't affect TvP AS much if it is a researched ability, but if not, the 1-1-1 just got a hell of a lot stronger again. | ||
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Imperium11
United States279 Posts
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CanadianSCgamer
Canada64 Posts
On June 15 2012 20:56 FairForever wrote: I have to agree with this. The intention is great, but the execution was just poor. TvT would just be a LoS battle, while this would IMO make Tank/Marine much harder to deal with as Zerg. Doesn't affect TvP AS much if it is a researched ability, but if not, the 1-1-1 just got a hell of a lot stronger again. To all quoted posters: TvT is already a LOS battle XD. This ability is meant to change that up a little bit to give it a more back and forth dynamic. Since Siege Lines are quite static, smoke allows players to attack into a entrenched position. Think WW1 and trench warfare. Of course scans can see through. Any ability that has no counter is sort of broken, even fungals can be countered by splits, and forcefields indirectly by EMP. | ||
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TibblesEvilCat
United Kingdom766 Posts
Protoss will have cloaking field from the oracle Terran will have a move mini thors. but in my personal opinions the siege tank is too one dimensional, other units such as hellion do better w/micro vs. light and maurders more cost efficient, you need a critical mass of the tanks for them to work, and even then there mobility can be abused by higher level players. i would actually say tanks need more dmg per shot to see any real use in Hots past 6 months. Sorry for bad spelling and grammar x | ||
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Special Endrey
Germany1929 Posts
i think there are enough possibilties to deal with em | ||
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BlueKatz
68 Posts
Also Warhound meant to make Mech viable in TvP as the Auto Anti Mech bypass Immortal Shield I think the smoke idea is pretty cool, very Terran-ish. But unless they decide to remove Blinding Cloud (which is a terrible skill imo) then a Sight Block or Dark Swarm ability type would work. Or maybe an AoE ability that consume AoE effect | ||
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redDuke
Australia207 Posts
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mostevil
United Kingdom611 Posts
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
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MavivaM
1535 Posts
On June 15 2012 20:50 Jinsho wrote: This idea is, of course, absolute rubbish. It has to mean nothing in TvT as scans have to see through, otherwise whoever fires the first smoke shells wins, and it would greatly mess up TvZ and TvP. This internet tough guy may express his opinion in a better way, but he's right. In TvT the scans are going to completely nullify the LOS effect, in TvZ all the zerg has to do is bringing some mutalisks, or if he's going with another army composition he can use speed overlords or oversees without being forced to change his build at all. So, it's an ability that it's not going to change at all 2 of the 3 matchups. About TvP instead it could break the meta: T rushes to tank, pushes on one base, scans to get upper ground vision and then uses LOS to negate vision for the forcefields. I like the idea overall and I think it's cool... just not viable in this current way. No idea about how to improve it altough. | ||
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Knee_of_Justice
United States388 Posts
Ive always assumed that blizzard would try to experiment more with this mechanic. I was hoping, for example, that it would be able to block xelnaga watch towers so that the mapmakers could control how the tower gives vision (for example, vision on one side but not the other, which is interesting because it increases the ways that watchtowers can be positioned (not giving a full 360 degree view can add a lot of flexibility and strategy for mapmakers who want one attack path to be easily scouted while another is less easy to keep an eye on). Anyway, Ive also always hoped that they give a mechanic like this to a race, specifically Zerg. Blinding cloud is a step in the right direction but not really what I had in mind. I imagined an early/mid-game ability (maybe on the queen or overlord or creep tumor?) that allows you to set up line of sight blockers, which would be permanent on creep. I think this fits really well with the Zerg race because: 1) the importance of flanking, positioning, etc for the Zerg 2) the numerous short-ranged units that Zerg has (LoS blockers even the playing field for short ranged units) 3) the abundance of overlords which has great synergy with such an ability allowing the Zerg to see over the obstacle but the enemy to be blind. As an early terran or protoss army pushes on to creep, they will be slowed by each line of LoS blockers, fearing banelings, zergling/roach flanks, buried unit ambushes etc on the home turf of the Zerg. Creep and Overlord sight will give the Zerg a solid idea of the progress of the invading army, however. I hadnt thought about it as a Terran ability because as people have said, I think it becomes more limited as the game goes on and air units and scans become more abundant. This ability would be best in the early game as a type of soft defensive mechanic which is why I think it would work best for Zerg. | ||
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