|
On June 17 2012 09:16 AsymptoticClimax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 09:08 CanadianSCgamer wrote:
Now the Zerg commander must make a split second decision to either pull back or continue the assault. If he keeps attacking, he will be going in blind, not knowing what is behind the smoke until he reaches you. If he pulls back, he just gave away the element of surprise and allowed you to either retreat or time to gather additional reinforcements. I'm sorry but isn't this beneficial to the zerg since they're mostly composed of short ranged-melee units so they can get close to the longer range terran army (their strength) and just overrun them? when retreating outside the LOS with zerglings say, you'd save yourself a few tank shots since they cant see past the LOS or is it only a one way thing? isn't this basically blinding cloud? also this would be confusing as hell as a spectator sport trying to figure what's the happening.
I'm pretty sure it was meant as neither can see past the sight blocker. As an intended Terran spell, it isn't supposed to benefit the Zerg, as I understood it.
I don't think it will be confusing to the spectator at all. They know that neither can see past the smokescreen without a spotter in the air. Assume your audience is intelligent =]
|
On June 17 2012 09:32 CanadianSCgamer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 09:16 AsymptoticClimax wrote:On June 17 2012 09:08 CanadianSCgamer wrote:
Now the Zerg commander must make a split second decision to either pull back or continue the assault. If he keeps attacking, he will be going in blind, not knowing what is behind the smoke until he reaches you. If he pulls back, he just gave away the element of surprise and allowed you to either retreat or time to gather additional reinforcements. I'm sorry but isn't this beneficial to the zerg since they're mostly composed of short ranged-melee units so they can get close to the longer range terran army (their strength) and just overrun them? when retreating outside the LOS with zerglings say, you'd save yourself a few tank shots since they cant see past the LOS or is it only a one way thing? isn't this basically blinding cloud? also this would be confusing as hell as a spectator sport trying to figure what's the happening. It isn't exactly blinding cloud because this ability doesn't directly affect the units. It is more like a "cliff/high ground" generator. By denying vision, you are basically creating a sort of high ground advantage on even ground. This sort thing is dynamic rather than static, so the spell can indeed back fire if used incorrectly. That's what makes it fun. 
God this sounds like your describing a terran version of the forcefield lol. Idk as a zerg this just sounds like it would just become fustrating to me. also, I like the idea of the TvT aspect of LOS but it shouldn't be an ability that affects all matchups but rather a map feature IMO
|
This seems like a cool idea, and something that I hope Blizzard might look at for LotV. Not necessarily as an ability for the siege tank, but just as a potential ability for some unit, which could open up some interesting avenues in the metagame.
|
Ahh, cool idea! I've never considered a LOS blocker as an ability before. I think that could definitely be incorporated well into the game, but I don't know if I like the ability the way it is now exactly.
|
On June 17 2012 09:39 Holytornados wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 09:16 AsymptoticClimax wrote:On June 17 2012 09:08 CanadianSCgamer wrote:
Now the Zerg commander must make a split second decision to either pull back or continue the assault. If he keeps attacking, he will be going in blind, not knowing what is behind the smoke until he reaches you. If he pulls back, he just gave away the element of surprise and allowed you to either retreat or time to gather additional reinforcements. I'm sorry but isn't this beneficial to the zerg since they're mostly composed of short ranged-melee units so they can get close to the longer range terran army (their strength) and just overrun them? when retreating outside the LOS with zerglings say, you'd save yourself a few tank shots since they cant see past the LOS or is it only a one way thing? isn't this basically blinding cloud? also this would be confusing as hell as a spectator sport trying to figure what's the happening. I'm pretty sure it was meant as neither can see past the sight blocker. As an intended Terran spell, it isn't supposed to benefit the Zerg, as I understood it. I don't think it will be confusing to the spectator at all. They know that neither can see past the smokescreen without a spotter in the air. Assume your audience is intelligent =]
Right..try explaining blinding cloud and smoke screen to someone completely new to starcraft and get them to know the difference so they can appreciate the game like we do, also they achieve similar goals so I can't see this getting into the game tbh even if the devs acknowledge it. Have fun!
|
On June 17 2012 09:48 AsymptoticClimax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 09:39 Holytornados wrote:On June 17 2012 09:16 AsymptoticClimax wrote:On June 17 2012 09:08 CanadianSCgamer wrote:
Now the Zerg commander must make a split second decision to either pull back or continue the assault. If he keeps attacking, he will be going in blind, not knowing what is behind the smoke until he reaches you. If he pulls back, he just gave away the element of surprise and allowed you to either retreat or time to gather additional reinforcements. I'm sorry but isn't this beneficial to the zerg since they're mostly composed of short ranged-melee units so they can get close to the longer range terran army (their strength) and just overrun them? when retreating outside the LOS with zerglings say, you'd save yourself a few tank shots since they cant see past the LOS or is it only a one way thing? isn't this basically blinding cloud? also this would be confusing as hell as a spectator sport trying to figure what's the happening. I'm pretty sure it was meant as neither can see past the sight blocker. As an intended Terran spell, it isn't supposed to benefit the Zerg, as I understood it. I don't think it will be confusing to the spectator at all. They know that neither can see past the smokescreen without a spotter in the air. Assume your audience is intelligent =] Right..try explaining blinding cloud and smoke screen to someone completely new to starcraft and get them to know the difference so they can appreciate the game like we do, also they achieve similar goals so I can't see this getting into the game tbh even if the devs acknowledge it. Have fun!
Blinding cloud - The name is pretty self-explanatory. I could explain that even to a little kid. What does it do? Basically it is a cloud of something that blinds things. Done
Smoke Screen - As I've said before, smoke screens are not new to human technology at all. It's been in use since World War I. Gamers know what they are because most people have played FPSs, such as Counter Strike or COD, that have smoke grenades and they know how useful smoke grenades are for creating confusion and attacking a position. Once again, I can explain it to a little kid. What is a Smoke Screen? It is a heavy, thick wall of smoke that is impossible to see past.
However, you are right that these two spells achieve similar goals in that they are not spells that cause direct damage like fungal or storm. Instead, these spells force players to strive for better positioning, which makes for very interesting gameplay for players and spectators. Unlike blinding cloud or dark swarm, the Smoke Screen ability doesn't mess with unit attack range or damage. What it does is that it reduces the vision of the unit. Vision is a pretty fundamental mechanic in Starcraft in the form of fog of war, so it is not hard to understand at all. While units in BC and DS can be seen, units in SS cannot be seen, unless revealed through vision. Do you understand the difference now?
|
Thank god someone mentioned this. It's one of the few things that Blizzard hasn't quite played around with yet and has some of the most potential to produce interesting strategies.
|
On June 17 2012 10:27 CanadianSCgamer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 09:48 AsymptoticClimax wrote:On June 17 2012 09:39 Holytornados wrote:On June 17 2012 09:16 AsymptoticClimax wrote:On June 17 2012 09:08 CanadianSCgamer wrote:
Now the Zerg commander must make a split second decision to either pull back or continue the assault. If he keeps attacking, he will be going in blind, not knowing what is behind the smoke until he reaches you. If he pulls back, he just gave away the element of surprise and allowed you to either retreat or time to gather additional reinforcements. I'm sorry but isn't this beneficial to the zerg since they're mostly composed of short ranged-melee units so they can get close to the longer range terran army (their strength) and just overrun them? when retreating outside the LOS with zerglings say, you'd save yourself a few tank shots since they cant see past the LOS or is it only a one way thing? isn't this basically blinding cloud? also this would be confusing as hell as a spectator sport trying to figure what's the happening. I'm pretty sure it was meant as neither can see past the sight blocker. As an intended Terran spell, it isn't supposed to benefit the Zerg, as I understood it. I don't think it will be confusing to the spectator at all. They know that neither can see past the smokescreen without a spotter in the air. Assume your audience is intelligent =] Right..try explaining blinding cloud and smoke screen to someone completely new to starcraft and get them to know the difference so they can appreciate the game like we do, also they achieve similar goals so I can't see this getting into the game tbh even if the devs acknowledge it. Have fun! Blinding cloud - The name is pretty self-explanatory. I could explain that even to a little kid. What does it do? Basically it is a cloud of something that blinds things. Done Smoke Screen - As I've said before, smoke screens are not new to human technology at all. It's been in use since World War I. Gamers know what they are because most people have played FPSs, such as Counter Strike or COD, that have smoke grenades and they know how useful smoke grenades are for creating confusion and attacking a position. Once again, I can explain it to a little kid. What is a Smoke Screen? It is a heavy, thick wall of smoke that is impossible to see past. However, you are right that these two spells achieve similar goals in that they are not spells that cause direct damage like fungal or storm. Instead, these spells force players to strive for better positioning, which makes for very interesting gameplay for players and spectators. Unlike blinding cloud or dark swarm, the Smoke Screen ability doesn't mess with unit attack range or damage. What it does is that it reduces the vision of the unit. Vision is a pretty fundamental mechanic in Starcraft in the form of fog of war, so it is not hard to understand at all. While units in BC and DS can be seen, units in SS cannot be seen, unless revealed through vision. Do you understand the difference now?
you're making it a bigger deal than it needs to be. I was just pointing out that I think it's gimmicky and wouldn't achieve anything that terrans needs right now. Terran do not need smoke screen with their siege seige tanks and whatnot. cool concept? sure! but not needed. now you're going on about how important sight is in starcraft or something and tbh got bored and at that point it's a fucking waste of text. the truth is role of unit > 'coolness' factor in starcraft 2 we've seen this happen with the carrier so no matter how 'cool' a concept is it won't cut it unless it's needed. and the truth is. it's not. or am I missing something? pretty sure it's not needed.
But hey, if were coming up with abilities that are questionable on whether we actually need it fuck it even I could come up with something better.
|
On June 17 2012 10:54 AsymptoticClimax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 10:27 CanadianSCgamer wrote:On June 17 2012 09:48 AsymptoticClimax wrote:On June 17 2012 09:39 Holytornados wrote:On June 17 2012 09:16 AsymptoticClimax wrote:On June 17 2012 09:08 CanadianSCgamer wrote:
Now the Zerg commander must make a split second decision to either pull back or continue the assault. If he keeps attacking, he will be going in blind, not knowing what is behind the smoke until he reaches you. If he pulls back, he just gave away the element of surprise and allowed you to either retreat or time to gather additional reinforcements. I'm sorry but isn't this beneficial to the zerg since they're mostly composed of short ranged-melee units so they can get close to the longer range terran army (their strength) and just overrun them? when retreating outside the LOS with zerglings say, you'd save yourself a few tank shots since they cant see past the LOS or is it only a one way thing? isn't this basically blinding cloud? also this would be confusing as hell as a spectator sport trying to figure what's the happening. I'm pretty sure it was meant as neither can see past the sight blocker. As an intended Terran spell, it isn't supposed to benefit the Zerg, as I understood it. I don't think it will be confusing to the spectator at all. They know that neither can see past the smokescreen without a spotter in the air. Assume your audience is intelligent =] Right..try explaining blinding cloud and smoke screen to someone completely new to starcraft and get them to know the difference so they can appreciate the game like we do, also they achieve similar goals so I can't see this getting into the game tbh even if the devs acknowledge it. Have fun! Blinding cloud - The name is pretty self-explanatory. I could explain that even to a little kid. What does it do? Basically it is a cloud of something that blinds things. Done Smoke Screen - As I've said before, smoke screens are not new to human technology at all. It's been in use since World War I. Gamers know what they are because most people have played FPSs, such as Counter Strike or COD, that have smoke grenades and they know how useful smoke grenades are for creating confusion and attacking a position. Once again, I can explain it to a little kid. What is a Smoke Screen? It is a heavy, thick wall of smoke that is impossible to see past. However, you are right that these two spells achieve similar goals in that they are not spells that cause direct damage like fungal or storm. Instead, these spells force players to strive for better positioning, which makes for very interesting gameplay for players and spectators. Unlike blinding cloud or dark swarm, the Smoke Screen ability doesn't mess with unit attack range or damage. What it does is that it reduces the vision of the unit. Vision is a pretty fundamental mechanic in Starcraft in the form of fog of war, so it is not hard to understand at all. While units in BC and DS can be seen, units in SS cannot be seen, unless revealed through vision. Do you understand the difference now? you're making it a bigger deal than it needs to be. I was just pointing out that I think it's gimmicky and wouldn't achieve anything that terrans needs right now. Terran do not need smoke screen with their siege seige tanks and whatnot. cool concept? sure! but not needed. now you're going on about how important sight is in starcraft or something and tbh got bored and at that point it's a fucking waste of text. the truth is role of unit > 'coolness' factor in starcraft 2 we've seen this happen with the carrier so no matter how 'cool' a concept is it won't cut it unless it's needed. and the truth is. it's not. or am I missing something? pretty sure it's not needed. But hey, if were coming up with abilities that are questionable on whether we actually need it fuck it even I could come up with something better.
The main purpose of this spell is to break Siege Lines in TvT, which is something Blizzard is trying very hard to do. Their method is direct, giving the Warhound a anti-mechanical missile pack. Some people have negative feelings towards this kind of 1-A hard counter unit, so I'm suggesting a more indirect method, allowing armies to get close to a Siege Line without taking bad damage. I would say that it is a pretty big deal since that's what Blizzard is focusing on for the entire Terran race for HOTS.
All the other things such as defender's advantage and setting up traps, that in your opinion may be "gimmicky," but that's icing on the cake.
Since you get bored easily here's a TLDR:
- Purpose: Breaks TvT stalemates
But do please feel free to entertain the rest of us with your better ideas.
|
this would be brillant to punish infestor-ling only players, force them to get some air units or risk walking into something reaaall ugly
|
Feel like this gives Terran too much of an advantage seeing as they have Scan whereas other races would get their obs/ovs/whatever sniped by AA hiding behind the smoke screen...and also seems like giving a strong fighting unit an extra spell as opposed to Viper which is a spellcaster foremost is kinda weird...
|
Would be cool for Terran to have, but seems like it can easily be avoided. How useful would it really be against a bunch of melee units running at you? There are usually observers nearby that would negate this. So assuming it would be used against zerg, it still doesn't seem effective since the entire zerg army comes charging in and wouldn't lose any dps anyway.
Does feel terrany though.
|
Yeah, I really think they should change the warhound back to an anti air goliath and give him this smoke screen ability for tvt, to help with flanks... Imagine a smokescreen going down on the right side of a siege line and then a buch of marauder run in and next second boom boom boom they're killing the tanks, because the other terran didnt scan or have vision there.
Very fun and interesting mechanic, but I don't think the key is for tanks to be MORE vital in tvt.
|
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
I think this idea is worth a shot; hopefully someone tries it out in the editor.
|
Update!
Spell In Action! (With pictures!)
Thanks to a very talented Mr. Outcast01 at SC2Mapster Forums, the spell is now a Work in Progress!
+ Show Spoiler +DO NOT FEAR those Siege Lines any longer for you have a new ability in your command card. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CxCe3.jpg) Smoke OUT! (Note: Now in range of enemy tanks, but not getting shot  ) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Jdtxe.jpg) Smoke out again, leap frog to get even closer. Knock Knock Siege Line. (Note: Zero damage taken so far). ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xB6ac.jpg) Siege Line No More. *Note friendly Raven giving vision this whole time, stressing the importance of vision, whereas red didn't have any. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BqIaY.jpg)
|
Based on your pictures, this wouldn't change anything: that air dominance in TvT has the stronger siege line vision.
|
On June 18 2012 03:26 BraneSC2 wrote:
Based on your pictures, this wouldn't change anything: that air dominance in TvT has the stronger siege line vision.
That's where the new Warhound would come in. Instead of a anti-siege unit, it would return to it's AA role. Or one can just attack from a direction where air units are not present. I can't stress enough that this spell is about taking advantage of the element of surprise. In those pictures, even though red didn't have any air units, he could have easily just scanned to gain vision, but in a real game situation, if the green terran is fast enough, he would have destroyed half of red's units before red noticed anything.
Right now, this spell is in alpha. If it really turns out that it is not that good, then it will be buffed. Perhaps make it so even air units can't see through it, but I won't rush to that yet as it is very good so far.
|
I think the air dominance issue just becomes solved by the new Warhound assuming an AA role. I think that'd be PERFECT. AA ground instead of a siege breaker.
|
On June 15 2012 21:02 Imperium11 wrote:
This is the best theorycrafting thread I've seen in a long time.
isn't theorycrafting frowned upon here? That being said, the ability seems very Terran-y (and teh warhound is teh sux so i agree it should replace the thor and return to aa abilities)
|
On June 18 2012 05:38 ectonym wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 21:02 Imperium11 wrote:
This is the best theorycrafting thread I've seen in a long time.
isn't theorycrafting frowned upon here? That being said, the ability seems very Terran-y (and teh warhound is teh sux so i agree it should replace the thor and return to aa abilities)
It is not theorycrafting if you have a test map in the making to test out the ability. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
