EPTOn June 15 2012 21:46 MavivaM wrote:
This internet tough guy may express his opinion in a better way, but he's right.
In TvT the scans are going to completely nullify the LOS effect, in TvZ all the zerg has to do is bringing some mutalisks, or if he's going with another army composition he can use speed overlords or oversees without being forced to change his build at all.
So, it's an ability that it's not going to change at all 2 of the 3 matchups.
About TvP instead it could break the meta: T rushes to tank, pushes on one base, scans to get upper ground vision and then uses LOS to negate vision for the forcefields.
I like the idea overall and I think it's cool... just not viable in this current way.
No idea about how to improve it altough.
This internet tough guy may express his opinion in a better way, but he's right.
In TvT the scans are going to completely nullify the LOS effect, in TvZ all the zerg has to do is bringing some mutalisks, or if he's going with another army composition he can use speed overlords or oversees without being forced to change his build at all.
So, it's an ability that it's not going to change at all 2 of the 3 matchups.
About TvP instead it could break the meta: T rushes to tank, pushes on one base, scans to get upper ground vision and then uses LOS to negate vision for the forcefields.
I like the idea overall and I think it's cool... just not viable in this current way.
No idea about how to improve it altough.
In TvT, I mostly agree what you said, just that ..scan nearly nullify it, instead of completely XD
In TvP though, I think obs will be early enough to nullify it too, especially you are going heavy on gas, and they will prepare for banshee.
My reasoning and suggestion are written in an earlier post :
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 15 2012 20:16 Roarer wrote:
I am not sure how much effect of such an ability will affect the match-ups. Let's see:
TvT : the ability can limit marine marauders sight range... but Terran can neutralize it with scans or a floating barrack. On the other hand medivac will be out @ around 10:00. Once medivac is out, the smake screen is more or less useless. Even if the tanking guy go for vikings, you need 3 vikings to 2 shot a medivac.... so ...the marauder Terran can push with 2 medivac @ 10:00 saving 1 scan. In short, the screen is useless in "main" engagement after 10:00.
If we only look at its usefulness before 10:00, assuming you go 1 rax expand... the earliest tank you can get is about 7:15. As a result, you can only have 1 to 3 tanks to hold off the marauder pushes before 10:00. The ability has to be effective for having only 3 tanks. The tanking better to be able to lay at least 2 layers of smoke screen before 10:00 or else the ability will be actually useless( to waste 1 scan, then the MM will not be able to push through the second layer).
TvP: Can be useful against stalkers, since they cannot blink into places with no vision, and also delay the charge on zealots. However, every standard protoss will have observer out @ 7:30 which can allow it to see through the screen. After 12:30, most protoss will have colossus out which can give vision. Then the effectiveness of the ability will come down to observer sniping which protoss will have the upper hand most of the time. In conclusion, the ability has very limited uses in straight up TvP engagement.
TvZ: It's useless on creeps and after mutalisks are out, so the window for it to be useful will be between 7:15 to 9:00 ( assuming 1 rax expo again). However, the smoke screen can help a ton in counter attacks. Zergs will hardly have spotters when they are doing counter attacks.. and they may be scared and retreat once they took 1 tank shot cuz they have no idea how many more is back there. In straight up defense, they can neutralize roaches, which tanks always do, but it forces the zerg to poke through the screen with either muta or overlord/overseers.I guess everyone knows that marine can kill these units quite easily, thus delaying the push. This can bring some new dynamic to the match up^ ^ . The ability can be really useful in TvZ then.
In conclusion, the ability is only useful for retreat in most match-ups. It is really interesting in TvZ. Terran can hardly benefit from it in any form agressions and the timing window for it to shine is very small. Thus, I would say that the ability should come free with tanks. Any upgrades delaying it to make an impact in the game might be too much. Moreover, if we want the ability to have an impact in the late games, it needs a buff. Maybe something like units in the smoke screen have increased chance to miss unless the targets were tracked by sensor towers.
I am not sure how much effect of such an ability will affect the match-ups. Let's see:
TvT : the ability can limit marine marauders sight range... but Terran can neutralize it with scans or a floating barrack. On the other hand medivac will be out @ around 10:00. Once medivac is out, the smake screen is more or less useless. Even if the tanking guy go for vikings, you need 3 vikings to 2 shot a medivac.... so ...the marauder Terran can push with 2 medivac @ 10:00 saving 1 scan. In short, the screen is useless in "main" engagement after 10:00.
If we only look at its usefulness before 10:00, assuming you go 1 rax expand... the earliest tank you can get is about 7:15. As a result, you can only have 1 to 3 tanks to hold off the marauder pushes before 10:00. The ability has to be effective for having only 3 tanks. The tanking better to be able to lay at least 2 layers of smoke screen before 10:00 or else the ability will be actually useless( to waste 1 scan, then the MM will not be able to push through the second layer).
TvP: Can be useful against stalkers, since they cannot blink into places with no vision, and also delay the charge on zealots. However, every standard protoss will have observer out @ 7:30 which can allow it to see through the screen. After 12:30, most protoss will have colossus out which can give vision. Then the effectiveness of the ability will come down to observer sniping which protoss will have the upper hand most of the time. In conclusion, the ability has very limited uses in straight up TvP engagement.
TvZ: It's useless on creeps and after mutalisks are out, so the window for it to be useful will be between 7:15 to 9:00 ( assuming 1 rax expo again). However, the smoke screen can help a ton in counter attacks. Zergs will hardly have spotters when they are doing counter attacks.. and they may be scared and retreat once they took 1 tank shot cuz they have no idea how many more is back there. In straight up defense, they can neutralize roaches, which tanks always do, but it forces the zerg to poke through the screen with either muta or overlord/overseers.I guess everyone knows that marine can kill these units quite easily, thus delaying the push. This can bring some new dynamic to the match up^ ^ . The ability can be really useful in TvZ then.
In conclusion, the ability is only useful for retreat in most match-ups. It is really interesting in TvZ. Terran can hardly benefit from it in any form agressions and the timing window for it to shine is very small. Thus, I would say that the ability should come free with tanks. Any upgrades delaying it to make an impact in the game might be too much. Moreover, if we want the ability to have an impact in the late games, it needs a buff. Maybe something like units in the smoke screen have increased chance to miss unless the targets were tracked by sensor towers.
