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On June 11 2012 04:25 BearG wrote:
Blizzard really needs to bring back the Science Vessel. I think the science vessel would be so much better for HotS. Can you imagine the uses of defense matrix? Put a matrix on a marine to absorb banelings. Put a matrix on a tank pulled by a viper. Put a matrix on a unit to absorb a widow mine. Since Zerg is going to have fungal growth AND dark swarm, then we should get irradiate back.
Ravens PDD might make a comeback since Hydras are making a comeback. The science vessel would be so much more viable though. Defense turrets are so gimmicky. Hunter Seeker Missle? I think the widow mine just took its spot.
They can just give raven the defense matrix. But they thought Terran already has too many options so they want to add many in HOTS. Their perception of terran is no along true, since Zerg and Protoss players are diversifying their strategies and terran has not new strategies recently.
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Hyrule19058 Posts
It's base 10 range, with a +12 upgrade, an upgrade that gives 26 vision (I think) and the Oracle has a spell which grants vision sort of like BW parasite but more obvious. Also yes getting shot at from 3 screens away is a pain in the ass, and you can't counter them with Widows like you can with Oracles. Viper+AA is pretty good against them. They also have a fairly slow attack and cost 300/300, and each upgrade is also 300/300 iirc. I also feel like they should be more like a sky Reaver and require 15 minerals per shot. Toss doesn't quite feel right with no pay-per-damage units. If they don't do Sky Reaver I hope for the Carrier to remain uncut.
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It's a bit sad to see that Protoss and Zerg are getting units which will be really powerful late game, while Terran isn't. Considering Terran's problems in the lategame in WOL, it's not looking too good for us :/
I really hope they listen to feedback during the beta, and I hope that the players will be sensible enough to complain about Entomb and Abduct. Those two spells really add to the list of retarded spells lol
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On June 11 2012 00:20 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 19:50 DaveVAH wrote:
What's the battle hellions armor type? are they still light-mechanical or just mechanical?
that info is not ANYWHERE. From what I've thought about this, there's no way it's llight-mechanical. It would be just mechanical.
ye if they are still light their use will be very limited in TvZ.. and further what do terran's get to combat all these new zerg stuff? Mines?
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On June 11 2012 07:33 FeyFey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 06:01 SarcasmMonster wrote:On June 11 2012 05:11 Zorgaz wrote:
Is there going to be any HOTS Battle report with TvP !?
Want it If there isn't one, then that's the most dissappointing thing about this MLG  probably they feel the matchup isn't ready in its current form, and they still tweak around. I mean they have to showcase Mech against a protoss and it has to look atleast a bit not scripted. Guess the overall units make a few problems. Oracle in its full glory probably, Tempest range and if the shot is blockable by pdd or not, with this attack speed a pdd would negate alot of tempest shots. 200 widow mines can kill a toss army cost effective and you still have atleast 100 left. (observers excluded) They leap pretty far, so only a few units could reach them without a suicide. And i guess storm still does pretty well against the slightly improved mech especially if one ht has 8 storms with core support. So a few reasons why we won't see a pvt report, but i could be wrong and they showcase it as the cherry on top heh.
They were probably like "Holy shit late game TvP is even WORSE now... we better not show them this or there will be a shitstorm of complaints and no Terran would even consider buying HotS, keep this on the down low team"
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The warhound model is so, so bad. I really hope they change it.
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On June 11 2012 08:37 Fission wrote:
The warhound model is so, so bad. I really hope they change it.
Like I said I am hoping Warhound gets a zoid remake and look like a real.... War hound
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PgaYs.jpg)
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zerg seems super op in my opinion viper being able to pull enemy and friendly units. and the ultralisk charge but it's the zerg sc2 game so ofc there gonna be op. Hopefully the game will become as balanced as wings of liberty has became
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 11 2012 09:19 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 08:37 Fission wrote:
The warhound model is so, so bad. I really hope they change it. Like I said I am hoping Warhound gets a zoid remake and look like a real.... War hound
Like a super Predator from campaign? :D
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I'm really curious how XvZ matchups are going to work now. I guess it depends on the Viper pull cooldown/energycost/whatever, but that ability alone is going to be so strong. From what I saw of it, the range is quite decent, so it's not like you could just move your Colossus back a bit and be fine - if they're in firing range, they're probably in pull range as well. For two races that so heavily depend on positioning against Z, that ability might just be very, very hard to play against.
Considering that'll work on air units, Colossus, Archons, etc, that only really leaves the HT as an AoE unit that's relatively safe against the Viper, and that's only really because you could get some storms off before they get pulled out of position. All the others can get yanked too easily and stop firing once they are. Now add that it's possible to get infinite 'free' units out of the swarm host and Hydra got a lot better, and you'll be sorely needing that AoE power. Narrowing all that down to the templar + energy remax seems a bit iffy, but I guess it remains to be seen if that is actually the case.
The mines look pretty interesting, but I'm curious about the range on those as well. From the video it looked like ~5 range, which is a bit much IMO. That basically means you need Colossus to move out at all, because your other units can't stay out of range of the mines properly. If that was a 3/4 range activation instead, it'd seem pretty okay to me. Still forces careful movement and detection and can be used in conjunction with kiting very well, but doesn't instakill any unit that comes near it.
Just my current thoughts after seeing the two battle reports. We'll see during/after beta.
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Can't wait for beta, its impossible to predict how things will evolve just by theorycrafting.
Also don't forget things can change before beta, during beta and after release. WoL beta had a lot of stupid mechanics 
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On June 11 2012 08:11 tofucake wrote:
It's base 10 range, with a +12 upgrade, an upgrade that gives 26 vision (I think) and the Oracle has a spell which grants vision sort of like BW parasite but more obvious. Also yes getting shot at from 3 screens away is a pain in the ass, and you can't counter them with Widows like you can with Oracles. Viper+AA is pretty good against them. They also have a fairly slow attack and cost 300/300, and each upgrade is also 300/300 iirc. I also feel like they should be more like a sky Reaver and require 15 minerals per shot. Toss doesn't quite feel right with no pay-per-damage units. If they don't do Sky Reaver I hope for the Carrier to remain uncut.
26 vision? can't be... in the fight at protoss's third, day9 mentions the tempests' upgraded range
There was an observer sitting over the swarm hosts. It looks like it was giving him vision. Same thing when the tempest was harassing one of zerg's bases. He had preordained the hatch with the oracle for vision.
Edit: Oh, you mean a separate upgrade. Hm, 2 upgrades? Damn the 26 vision upgrade sounds imba. It's like a flying watch tower lol.
Hey good idea about paying for shots! Maybe you should suggest it on bnet. Of course it would have to hit heavier though... but it probably would only work if it has splash. But idk if blizzard wants to give a unit with that much range splash ;O
If it did like 100 or 150 damage for X minerals, it wouldn't be so effective for units like zerglings. Ok no problem, colossi. So I guess you could use tempest to kill vipers and what not. But I think that would be too annoying as the other player, to get your stuff blasted away like that (even if the protoss has to pay minerals)
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On June 11 2012 03:43 SmileZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 03:34 MaK UK wrote:On June 11 2012 03:22 Natespank wrote:
widow mine = super expensive spider mine?? Widow mine which costs the same as a roach yet can take down a swarm host in one? even if it killed a roach, its still cost effective due to it being lower supply. Not to mention they can hit air, unburrow and redeploy, be dropped from medivacs, don't require any research...
And worst of all they can pierce cloak. WTF man, burrowed roach/infestor attacks are fucked.
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I wonder how effectively you can contain a protoss with widow mines.. from the sound of things, they can''t really deal with them until they have ranged colossi out. There's probably going to be some cool reactored factory contain/expo into mech builds. That's if mech turns out to be viable vs protoss, and I still have my doubts that it will be...
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Pretty sure the mine leaps at range 4/5. Stalkers and all other range 6+ units should be able to kill them without danger as long as detection is already up.
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How do you contain protoss when they can just warp somewhere else near your base?
If you try to push in, they have mothership core which gives:
Recall or PF or Energy remax. They can even sneak a nexus somewhere (on larger maps) and recall outside lol.
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On June 11 2012 10:26 Immutant wrote:
How do you contain protoss when they can just warp somewhere else near your base?
If you try to push in, they have mothership core which gives:
Recall or PF or Energy remax. They can even sneak a nexus somewhere (on larger maps) and recall outside lol.
I actually don't mind seeing a Proxy nexus come into fruition in a game, that would be quite the sight.
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On June 11 2012 05:11 Zorgaz wrote:
Is there going to be any HOTS Battle report with TvP !?
Want it
My personal opinion why there isn't is because all the Terran and Protoss stuff is so underwhelming that a battle reports with those two races alone wouldn't be any good. So they rather show them against Zerg that got all the exciting units.
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Worst thing about recall, is the forgiving part of just attacking a base, and destroying everything then just recall home once you are threatened, to maybe save your base in a base-trade etc.. But I guess that was possible in WoL aswell, if you had a mothership at home. Still mothership core is gonna be used everygame no matter what, so it's more a viable strat now, since you can just kill an expo, and be safe no matter what.
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On June 11 2012 10:25 DeCoup wrote:
Pretty sure the mine leaps at range 4/5. Stalkers and all other range 6+ units should be able to kill them without danger as long as detection is already up.
according to the unit stats thread, it's approx 5/6.. and it really needs to be a range of 6 for it to be effective, otherwise it gets to be too easy to pick off. And there's a range gap between range 6 units and the next step up, which would be upgraded colossi and the new cap ship. The effectiveness of mines is probably drastically reduced once colossi are out anyway, especially if it has an attach range of less than 6. Or maybe a range of 5.5 would be ok, I don't know...
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EPT
