EPTOn June 07 2012 12:20 artanis2 wrote:
Big events in the community generally get a Liquid response in the form of a post or article.
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 12:10 Firesilver wrote:
Why do you want an official statement from them? Not saying that would be a bad thing but the fact is that TL is a community and a message board, they will moderate what gets/doesn't get posted but other than that TL had nothing to do with the original posting of this thread and due to it being well structured and had effort put into it, plus pro insight they decided to leave it open. This does not mean that they automatically become the judge and decide where we go from this, we could expect them to let us know their stance on the situation, but that would just be their opinion on the matter.
People need to stop looking to TL to spoon feed them a verdict. They are just the community staff that just happen to own the message board that these allegations were posted on. If this thread appeared on Reddit would you look to the moderators to give you a innocent/guilty verdict?
On June 07 2012 12:04 Defacer wrote:
Fair enough.
I looking forward to your official statement. I also hope that behind-the-scenes, TL is considering how to handle situations like this.
On June 07 2012 11:56 intrigue wrote:
exactly this. please stop assuming the worst of us, this exact incident is a first in SC2 that nobody has policies in place to deal with. we did as best we could and we may or may not have handled it better. it's flattering that you think we can investigate everything ourselves but we simply can't. being sarcastic and accusatory won't help at all.
On June 07 2012 11:52 Dodgin wrote:
TL isn't the fucking internet police, and this isn't BW anymore. They have other shit to do than busting a low tier NA pro maphacking. I'm sure they will make an announcement once they have reached a verdict just wait for that.
On June 07 2012 11:51 Defacer wrote:
You're missing the point.
If TL thinks Spades is a hacker, than announce it and say it. Don't hide behind the community or the OP and let them do the dirty work.
On June 07 2012 11:48 paintfive wrote:
lol, if this thread had been about a TL player, they would have been kicked out days ago. There's more than enough evidence.
On June 07 2012 11:17 Defacer wrote:
If that's the case, then TL owes Spades and Western Wolves an apology.
I don't disagree with the idea that Spades is hacker. He probably is. The proof isn't definitive, but there's enough circumstantial evidence to, say, justify why Spades shouldn't be playing in showmatches, or invited to tournaments.
But there's a right way and a wrong way to handle an accusation or information like this.
The responsible way: investigate it on your own. Write an intelligent or thorough article. Even if your proof isn't conclusive, if it's well researched than it's justifiably newsworthy.
Another option: inform Western Wolves and Spades that there are claims that Spades is a hacker. Tell them that you're going to release a replay pack and open it to the TL forums. Western Wolves might not like it, but out of courtesy, you allow them to investigate the issue internally or at least prepare a response.
Let's get real: if the accusation were leveled at an EG, Fnatic, FXO or any other large foreign pro team, this is exactly what they would have done. If it were a claim against a TL player, it would never reach the General Forums. All you would see is a News item saying that some TL player was released.
The irresponsible way: do exactly what they've done. Allow an anonymous claim to go up on their site while privately pretending to be an 'impartial' third party. Let a player get destroyed on their site while pretending to have their hands tied.
Does anyone in their right mind think this is how hackers should be investigated or policed?
Does anyone think that EG Alex, FXOBoss, or Liquid Nazgul would stand for this shit if it happened to one of their players?
Exactly.
On June 07 2012 10:52 StarStrider wrote:
They are most definitely wisely following this thread very closely, and leaving it open was not an oversight: it was done with a very specific intent.
On June 07 2012 10:47 Dodgin wrote:
[quote]
TL is not going to post that he's not guilty because everyone behind the scenes already knows he's guilty and is looking for a way to prove it/waiting for the community to find a way to prove it. If no one finds anything this will just blow over and everyone will know he hacked without there ever being confirmation. OR they will post that he is guilty regardless based on what we have because that's how it happened with the BW hackers.
I know for sure the TL staff/admins have been talking about this and are probably preparing a thread to respond to the situation. ( note intrigue responding pretty fast after the thing with the minimap was posted )
There's a few persistent posters that are keeping this thread still moving but everyone important has already made their decision at this point.
[quote]
TL is not going to post that he's not guilty because everyone behind the scenes already knows he's guilty and is looking for a way to prove it/waiting for the community to find a way to prove it. If no one finds anything this will just blow over and everyone will know he hacked without there ever being confirmation. OR they will post that he is guilty regardless based on what we have because that's how it happened with the BW hackers.
I know for sure the TL staff/admins have been talking about this and are probably preparing a thread to respond to the situation. ( note intrigue responding pretty fast after the thing with the minimap was posted )
There's a few persistent posters that are keeping this thread still moving but everyone important has already made their decision at this point.
They are most definitely wisely following this thread very closely, and leaving it open was not an oversight: it was done with a very specific intent.
If that's the case, then TL owes Spades and Western Wolves an apology.
I don't disagree with the idea that Spades is hacker. He probably is. The proof isn't definitive, but there's enough circumstantial evidence to, say, justify why Spades shouldn't be playing in showmatches, or invited to tournaments.
But there's a right way and a wrong way to handle an accusation or information like this.
The responsible way: investigate it on your own. Write an intelligent or thorough article. Even if your proof isn't conclusive, if it's well researched than it's justifiably newsworthy.
Another option: inform Western Wolves and Spades that there are claims that Spades is a hacker. Tell them that you're going to release a replay pack and open it to the TL forums. Western Wolves might not like it, but out of courtesy, you allow them to investigate the issue internally or at least prepare a response.
Let's get real: if the accusation were leveled at an EG, Fnatic, FXO or any other large foreign pro team, this is exactly what they would have done. If it were a claim against a TL player, it would never reach the General Forums. All you would see is a News item saying that some TL player was released.
The irresponsible way: do exactly what they've done. Allow an anonymous claim to go up on their site while privately pretending to be an 'impartial' third party. Let a player get destroyed on their site while pretending to have their hands tied.
Does anyone in their right mind think this is how hackers should be investigated or policed?
Does anyone think that EG Alex, FXOBoss, or Liquid Nazgul would stand for this shit if it happened to one of their players?
Exactly.
lol, if this thread had been about a TL player, they would have been kicked out days ago. There's more than enough evidence.
You're missing the point.
If TL thinks Spades is a hacker, than announce it and say it. Don't hide behind the community or the OP and let them do the dirty work.
TL isn't the fucking internet police, and this isn't BW anymore. They have other shit to do than busting a low tier NA pro maphacking. I'm sure they will make an announcement once they have reached a verdict just wait for that.
exactly this. please stop assuming the worst of us, this exact incident is a first in SC2 that nobody has policies in place to deal with. we did as best we could and we may or may not have handled it better. it's flattering that you think we can investigate everything ourselves but we simply can't. being sarcastic and accusatory won't help at all.
Fair enough.
I looking forward to your official statement. I also hope that behind-the-scenes, TL is considering how to handle situations like this.
Why do you want an official statement from them? Not saying that would be a bad thing but the fact is that TL is a community and a message board, they will moderate what gets/doesn't get posted but other than that TL had nothing to do with the original posting of this thread and due to it being well structured and had effort put into it, plus pro insight they decided to leave it open. This does not mean that they automatically become the judge and decide where we go from this, we could expect them to let us know their stance on the situation, but that would just be their opinion on the matter.
People need to stop looking to TL to spoon feed them a verdict. They are just the community staff that just happen to own the message board that these allegations were posted on. If this thread appeared on Reddit would you look to the moderators to give you a innocent/guilty verdict?
Big events in the community generally get a Liquid response in the form of a post or article.
Yes, I am aware of that. I just feel like people need to stop putting liquid on the spot to be the judge in this situation.
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