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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 07 2012 10:40 toiletCAT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:37 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 10:35 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 10:33 Dox wrote:On June 07 2012 10:11 CarpetmoOse wrote:
This witch hunt needs to stop. I have seen spades play and watched him and Future practice on streams and there is by no mean a hint of him map hacking. The guy knows what he is doing, he is extremely smart and knows the mechanics of this game greatly. You think if someone is smart and has good mechanics that they can't also maphack? Does the maphack suddenly invalidate any existing skill? This statement is ridiculous. By your logic, everyone are potential hackers. This statement is ridiculous, too. Everyone is a potential hacker. If you have a computer with Starcraft 2 installed and like to win, you are a potential hacker. If their games don't seem that fishy then they probably aren't. If their games seem fishy, and other games they played don't seem fishy at all, maybe they hacked in the fishy games? Or maybe they played completely unsuspiciously and hacked? The possibilities are endless, and the argument is silly.
It was more of a reflection on your statement that it isn't true that in fact anyone is a potential hacker, which is in fact a true statement.
If I call Idra a hacker *because he, like all humans, is a potential hacker*, I'd have to provide evidence of him doing fishy things in order for anyone to take it seriously. So far I have found nothing fishy in about 10 Idra game's I've looked at to try to see if I can contort random normal things to sound fishy. Yet I find multitudes of fishiness in Spades' games that stands in stark contrast to the lack of fishy items in the ladder games.
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On June 07 2012 10:37 mrtomjones wrote:
If the evidence is now too weak to call Spades a hacker will a mod consider making a post that he is not a hacker(Or at the very least that the only evidence that is possible to exist is circumstantial) and clear his name? I am sure it would be best to give it another day to make sure no one figures something out, but I sure hope that this is what happens if he is innocent.
It's still quite strong circumstantial evidence. It's just that the evidence brought forth that is not circumstantial in any way has so far either been completely wrong, or in the case of the camera lock hack, requires that he use a private hack, which is completely possible, although one has to wonder how far noncircumstantial evidence can get if there are no footprints that can be found of the hack.
In other words circumstantial evidence may be all that we can end up having, but it is quite strong the circumstantial evidence which exists.
I've also taken a cursory look at the number and distribution of scans used between his ladder tvt games and his games vs lucifron, and there seems to be a significant difference. Maybe someone with a stats background can look further into it.
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On June 07 2012 10:40 Dox wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:35 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 10:33 Dox wrote:On June 07 2012 10:11 CarpetmoOse wrote:
This witch hunt needs to stop. I have seen spades play and watched him and Future practice on streams and there is by no mean a hint of him map hacking. The guy knows what he is doing, he is extremely smart and knows the mechanics of this game greatly. You think if someone is smart and has good mechanics that they can't also maphack? Does the maphack suddenly invalidate any existing skill? This statement is ridiculous. By your logic, everyone are potential hackers. This statement is ridiculous, too. What? How on earth did you reach that conclusion? The post I quoted said, "Spades is a good player, therefore he can't possibly be a hacker." He's implying that ONLY bad players use hacks. I'm just highlighting that there are plenty of good players who also hack. Poor mechanics and low intelligence are not prerequisites to cheating.
Nor the opposite.
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On June 07 2012 10:40 toiletCAT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:37 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 10:35 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 10:33 Dox wrote:On June 07 2012 10:11 CarpetmoOse wrote:
This witch hunt needs to stop. I have seen spades play and watched him and Future practice on streams and there is by no mean a hint of him map hacking. The guy knows what he is doing, he is extremely smart and knows the mechanics of this game greatly. You think if someone is smart and has good mechanics that they can't also maphack? Does the maphack suddenly invalidate any existing skill? This statement is ridiculous. By your logic, everyone are potential hackers. This statement is ridiculous, too. Everyone is a potential hacker. If you have a computer with Starcraft 2 installed and like to win, you are a potential hacker. If their games don't seem that fishy then they probably aren't. If their games seem fishy, and other games they played don't seem fishy at all, maybe they hacked in the fishy games? Or maybe they played completely unsuspiciously and hacked? The possibilities are endless, and the argument is silly.
It's starting to look like you're arguing for the sake of siding with Spades. What are you even talking about?
Someone said he's a smart player, another guy said it is irrelevant to the discussion. How is that ridiculous?
Come on.
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On June 07 2012 10:41 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:40 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 10:37 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 10:35 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 10:33 Dox wrote:On June 07 2012 10:11 CarpetmoOse wrote:
This witch hunt needs to stop. I have seen spades play and watched him and Future practice on streams and there is by no mean a hint of him map hacking. The guy knows what he is doing, he is extremely smart and knows the mechanics of this game greatly. You think if someone is smart and has good mechanics that they can't also maphack? Does the maphack suddenly invalidate any existing skill? This statement is ridiculous. By your logic, everyone are potential hackers. This statement is ridiculous, too. Everyone is a potential hacker. If you have a computer with Starcraft 2 installed and like to win, you are a potential hacker. If their games don't seem that fishy then they probably aren't. If their games seem fishy, and other games they played don't seem fishy at all, maybe they hacked in the fishy games? Or maybe they played completely unsuspiciously and hacked? The possibilities are endless, and the argument is silly. It was more of a reflection on your statement that it isn't true that in fact anyone is a potential hacker, which is in fact a true statement.
I never said it wasn't true, I said it was a silly argument.
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On June 07 2012 09:51 JustTray wrote:
Just would like to say that the "the current public hack doesn't allow actions while in camera lock" was debunked by a hacker about 75 pages ago, around page 190-205, I don't remember exactly. In fact, in this thread, a hacker came out saying he was one of a few select Grandmasters who developed a private hack and have been circulating it, and that he was going to contact someone in TL with names.
I would really like to know what came of this.
This person specifically stated that the camera lock feature could easily be adjusted, and in some verison of the hack I believe was an option to turn it on or off.
But ultimately, if you are going to say that this MOUNTAIN of evidence proving he's a hacker isn't enough, you simply cannot then make the argument that because one hack does not allow this feature that is proof he isn't a hacker. That kind of double think is simply retarded.
There should be zero more posts about the hack in question. It's irrelevant. It's just white knights grasping at straws who know it is incredibly likely Spades is a hacker.
Well said. I can't remember what thread number it was but it's been proven 100+ pages ago that spades wasn't using camera lock with the most popular map hack.
I honestly have no idea why ethereal would risk his sc2 account over something that was already debunked many times(by things such as APM analysis of where spades only has 0 apm spikes once in 7 games so he couldn't have been using it)
At the end of the day, I don't think it changes very much at all. I don't believe anyone claimed that spades was using camera lock with that particular version of map hack; it was only claimed that he was hacking.
If you compare his games vs theognis and lucifron with his ladder games, there is a clear cut difference in the way spades is controlling the camera to the point where spades left clicks in the fow many times vs no times per game, which suggests to me that he is using some version of a camera lock vs luci and theognis.
This combined with Spades's past, dozens of anecdotes of his incredibly suspicious gameplay, and the fact that he was outed as a streamcheater by his ex-manager and also by an ex-teammate is more than enough to convince me of his guilt. Actually, the knowledge of streamcheating alone is enough to convince me that spades should get blacklisted, but I digress.
Back in brood war we were very rarely ever 100% certain that someone was map hacking(the penguin plug blowing up their units or the flag method being a few of the only times), and we often convicted players based on circumstanial evidence such as expert testimony. Actually back in WGTour, the members of the community would vote on suspicous replays to decide on whether or not someone was hacking, and it caught a large majority of the hackers when the votes were high enough. It was enough then to go on circumstanial evidence, and it should be enough now.
It's highly unlikely that you are going to find a smoking gun that proves 100% without a doubt that spades is map hacking unless you are a blizzard employee, or you have access to spades's computer, or you have access to spades's financial records.
I feel like I'm getting trolled by spades and his friends(Toiletcat joining TL today and posting 125+ times - almost all in spades's defense), so I'm done with this thread.
Good luck finding the smoking gun guys, but it's unlikely that you will ever find it.
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On June 07 2012 10:44 ABear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 09:51 JustTray wrote:
Just would like to say that the "the current public hack doesn't allow actions while in camera lock" was debunked by a hacker about 75 pages ago, around page 190-205, I don't remember exactly. In fact, in this thread, a hacker came out saying he was one of a few select Grandmasters who developed a private hack and have been circulating it, and that he was going to contact someone in TL with names.
I would really like to know what came of this.
This person specifically stated that the camera lock feature could easily be adjusted, and in some verison of the hack I believe was an option to turn it on or off.
But ultimately, if you are going to say that this MOUNTAIN of evidence proving he's a hacker isn't enough, you simply cannot then make the argument that because one hack does not allow this feature that is proof he isn't a hacker. That kind of double think is simply retarded.
There should be zero more posts about the hack in question. It's irrelevant. It's just white knights grasping at straws who know it is incredibly likely Spades is a hacker. Well said. I can't remember what thread number it was but it's been proven 100+ pages ago that spades wasn't using camera lock with the most popular map hack. I honestly have no idea why ethereal would risk his sc2 account over something that was already debunked many times(by things such as APM analysis of where spades only has 0 apm spikes once in 7 games so he couldn't have been using it) At the end of the day, I don't think it changes very much at all. I don't believe anyone claimed that spades was using camera lock with that particular version of map hack; it was only claimed that he was hacking. If you compare his games vs theognis and lucifron with his ladder games, there is a clear cut difference in the way spades is controlling the camera to the point where spades left clicks in the fow many times vs no times per game, which suggests to me that he is using some version of a camera lock vs luci and theognis. This combined with Spades's past, dozens of anecdotes of his incredibly suspicious gameplay, and the fact that he was outed as a streamcheater by his ex-manager and also by an ex-teammate is more than enough to convince me of his guilt. Actually, the knowledge of streamcheating alone is enough to convince me that spades should get blacklisted, but I digress. Back in brood war we were very rarely ever 100% certain that someone was map hacking(the penguin plug blowing up their units or the flag method being a few of the only times), and we often convicted players based on circumstanial evidence such as expert testimony. Actually back in WGTour, the members of the community would vote on suspicous replays to decide on whether or not someone was hacking, and it caught a large majority of the hackers when the votes were high enough. It was enough then to go on circumstanial evidence, and it should be enough now. It's highly unlikely that you are going to find a smoking gun that proves 100% without a doubt that spades is map hacking unless you are a blizzard employee, or you have access to spades's computer, or you have access to spades's financial records. I feel like I'm getting trolled by spades and his friends(Toiletcat joining TL today and posting 125+ times - almost all in spades's defense), so I'm done with this thread. Good luck finding the smoking gun guys, but it's unlikely that you will ever find it.
Tbh I think we've already seen the smoking gun in his play. But hey, you never know what may pop up.
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On June 07 2012 10:40 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:37 mrtomjones wrote:
If the evidence is now too weak to call Spades a hacker will a mod consider making a post that he is not a hacker(Or at the very least that the only evidence that is possible to exist is circumstantial) and clear his name? I am sure it would be best to give it another day to make sure no one figures something out, but I sure hope that this is what happens if he is innocent. We have gotten a lot of new evidences and theories of ways to determine if he is hacking or not by leaving this thread open. Something could still pan out that we haven't looked at yet, and a way to either clear him or indite him more certainly might come to light if we keep the forum of public opinion rolling. It's healthy, no further damage can be done that hasn't already.
Which is why I said it might be good to delay that for at least another day. However, if there are no changes and any evidence is only circumstantial then there SHOULD be a post by someone respectable that he is not guilty. I'm not saying for people to stop investigating 
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On June 07 2012 10:43 toiletCAT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:41 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 10:40 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 10:37 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 10:35 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 10:33 Dox wrote:On June 07 2012 10:11 CarpetmoOse wrote:
This witch hunt needs to stop. I have seen spades play and watched him and Future practice on streams and there is by no mean a hint of him map hacking. The guy knows what he is doing, he is extremely smart and knows the mechanics of this game greatly. You think if someone is smart and has good mechanics that they can't also maphack? Does the maphack suddenly invalidate any existing skill? This statement is ridiculous. By your logic, everyone are potential hackers. This statement is ridiculous, too. Everyone is a potential hacker. If you have a computer with Starcraft 2 installed and like to win, you are a potential hacker. If their games don't seem that fishy then they probably aren't. If their games seem fishy, and other games they played don't seem fishy at all, maybe they hacked in the fishy games? Or maybe they played completely unsuspiciously and hacked? The possibilities are endless, and the argument is silly. It was more of a reflection on your statement that it isn't true that in fact anyone is a potential hacker, which is in fact a true statement. I never said it wasn't true, I said it was a silly argument.
It's not a silly argument. It's how we determine if a game is clean or not. First we must be suspicious, then hold it up to the light of analysis, and if it passes, it's good to go. It's why there aren't a 1000 threads like this all the time about the Koreans making gosu plays all the time or having wicked game sense. When we analyze it, it passes the litmus test of normal. Spades' games didn't. Hence the thread.
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On June 07 2012 10:43 RezJ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:40 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 10:37 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 10:35 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 10:33 Dox wrote:On June 07 2012 10:11 CarpetmoOse wrote:
This witch hunt needs to stop. I have seen spades play and watched him and Future practice on streams and there is by no mean a hint of him map hacking. The guy knows what he is doing, he is extremely smart and knows the mechanics of this game greatly. You think if someone is smart and has good mechanics that they can't also maphack? Does the maphack suddenly invalidate any existing skill? This statement is ridiculous. By your logic, everyone are potential hackers. This statement is ridiculous, too. Everyone is a potential hacker. If you have a computer with Starcraft 2 installed and like to win, you are a potential hacker. If their games don't seem that fishy then they probably aren't. If their games seem fishy, and other games they played don't seem fishy at all, maybe they hacked in the fishy games? Or maybe they played completely unsuspiciously and hacked? The possibilities are endless, and the argument is silly. It's starting to look like you're arguing for the sake of siding with Spades. What are you even talking about? Someone said he's a smart player, another guy said it is irrelevant to the discussion. How is that ridiculous? Come on.
Please don't start this again.
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tired of this thread always on top. close? this is going nowhere. guy gonna retire after mlg anyways?
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On June 07 2012 10:46 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:40 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 10:37 mrtomjones wrote:
If the evidence is now too weak to call Spades a hacker will a mod consider making a post that he is not a hacker(Or at the very least that the only evidence that is possible to exist is circumstantial) and clear his name? I am sure it would be best to give it another day to make sure no one figures something out, but I sure hope that this is what happens if he is innocent. We have gotten a lot of new evidences and theories of ways to determine if he is hacking or not by leaving this thread open. Something could still pan out that we haven't looked at yet, and a way to either clear him or indite him more certainly might come to light if we keep the forum of public opinion rolling. It's healthy, no further damage can be done that hasn't already. Which is why I said it might be good to delay that for at least another day. However, if there are no changes and any evidence is only circumstantial then there SHOULD be a post by someone respectable that he is not guilty. I'm not saying for people to stop investigating
TL is not going to post that he's not guilty because everyone behind the scenes already knows he's guilty and is looking for a way to prove it/waiting for the community to find a way to prove it. If no one finds anything this will just blow over and everyone will know he hacked without there ever being confirmation. OR they will post that he is guilty regardless based on what we have because that's how it happened with the BW hackers.
I know for sure the TL staff/admins have been talking about this and are probably preparing a thread to respond to the situation. ( note intrigue responding pretty fast after the thing with the minimap was posted )
There's a few persistent posters that are keeping this thread still moving but everyone important has already made their decision at this point.
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On June 07 2012 10:43 toiletCAT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:40 Dox wrote:On June 07 2012 10:35 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 10:33 Dox wrote:On June 07 2012 10:11 CarpetmoOse wrote:
This witch hunt needs to stop. I have seen spades play and watched him and Future practice on streams and there is by no mean a hint of him map hacking. The guy knows what he is doing, he is extremely smart and knows the mechanics of this game greatly. You think if someone is smart and has good mechanics that they can't also maphack? Does the maphack suddenly invalidate any existing skill? This statement is ridiculous. By your logic, everyone are potential hackers. This statement is ridiculous, too. What? How on earth did you reach that conclusion? The post I quoted said, "Spades is a good player, therefore he can't possibly be a hacker." He's implying that ONLY bad players use hacks. I'm just highlighting that there are plenty of good players who also hack. Poor mechanics and low intelligence are not prerequisites to cheating. Nor the opposite.
Well, I guess that proves it. He's innocent folks!
Thanks Random-Guy-Who-Joined-Team-Liquid-Yesterday-And-Has-Submitted-125-Posts-Exclusively-About-Map-Hacking.
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On June 07 2012 10:25 Daniel C wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:11 caradoc wrote:On June 07 2012 10:08 Chessz wrote:
Ok, for any detractors -- please explain why he (almost) never looks at the FoW in the bo7 ? Yea I saw him do it when he needed to expand, and maybe one odd time during each match, but this is still suspiciously low in frequency. Look at his MLG replays or his stream vods and even on the same maps he's looking into the fog of war for rallies and scouting all the time, basically as frequent as one would expect.
I've viewed the replays myself and Catz analysis and been following this thread, and I'm pretty convinced. mid masters one season, #1 GM the next.. okay. The fog of war thing is open to a manual statistical analysis. If someone did the stats on minimap usage in the bo7, and was able to compare it with say 20-30 games that are confirmed hack-free, that would be pretty damn strong evidence. The thing is, this isn't amenable to scripting. bleh. who wants to go over that many replays manually? AFAIK people have already done the comparison earlier in the thread - tens to hundreds of times of looking in the FOW in the hack-free games compared to only a few times each game in the showmatch games. Even 10 vs. 1 is not difficult to prove statistically significant even with a sample size of 7, is that right? (not a stats expert)
if the maximum number of times per game in the bo7 is 1/10th the number of the minimum number of games in confirmed hack-free games, even with a sample size of say 20, probability of not significant is probably less than .1%
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On June 07 2012 10:46 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:40 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 10:37 mrtomjones wrote:
If the evidence is now too weak to call Spades a hacker will a mod consider making a post that he is not a hacker(Or at the very least that the only evidence that is possible to exist is circumstantial) and clear his name? I am sure it would be best to give it another day to make sure no one figures something out, but I sure hope that this is what happens if he is innocent. We have gotten a lot of new evidences and theories of ways to determine if he is hacking or not by leaving this thread open. Something could still pan out that we haven't looked at yet, and a way to either clear him or indite him more certainly might come to light if we keep the forum of public opinion rolling. It's healthy, no further damage can be done that hasn't already. Which is why I said it might be good to delay that for at least another day. However, if there are no changes and any evidence is only circumstantial then there SHOULD be a post by someone respectable that he is not guilty. I'm not saying for people to stop investigating
Just as we cannot say that we have concrete proof that he is hacking, we also have no proof that he isn't. No one can say either until we have either. Someone with authority can't just 'decide' that he is not guilty because it has been a few days and nothing definitive has happened.
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On June 07 2012 10:46 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:43 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 10:41 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 10:40 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 10:37 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 10:35 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 10:33 Dox wrote:On June 07 2012 10:11 CarpetmoOse wrote:
This witch hunt needs to stop. I have seen spades play and watched him and Future practice on streams and there is by no mean a hint of him map hacking. The guy knows what he is doing, he is extremely smart and knows the mechanics of this game greatly. You think if someone is smart and has good mechanics that they can't also maphack? Does the maphack suddenly invalidate any existing skill? This statement is ridiculous. By your logic, everyone are potential hackers. This statement is ridiculous, too. Everyone is a potential hacker. If you have a computer with Starcraft 2 installed and like to win, you are a potential hacker. If their games don't seem that fishy then they probably aren't. If their games seem fishy, and other games they played don't seem fishy at all, maybe they hacked in the fishy games? Or maybe they played completely unsuspiciously and hacked? The possibilities are endless, and the argument is silly. It was more of a reflection on your statement that it isn't true that in fact anyone is a potential hacker, which is in fact a true statement. I never said it wasn't true, I said it was a silly argument. It's not a silly argument. It's how we determine if a game is clean or not. First we must be suspicious, then hold it up to the light of analysis, and if it passes, it's good to go. It's why there aren't a 1000 threads like this all the time about the Koreans making gosu plays all the time or having wicked game sense. When we analyze it, it passes the litmus test of normal. Spades' games didn't. Hence the thread.
I think you missed my point. Assuming that with players who has a high intellect and good mechanics, comes the potential of maphacking, is a silly argument, because we cannot use that in our analysis.
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On June 07 2012 10:47 Diizzy wrote:
tired of this thread always on top. close? this is going nowhere. guy gonna retire after mlg anyways?
agreed, seriously, drop it drolets (starhomo)...you got a problem with hacks and hackers? tell blizzard to make it impossible to do so, otherwise, understand it's the korean standard & and your favorite pro has done it too
User was warned for this post
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Hi,I never post on bords, but i tryed to track down this Hack(which allow you to control units while still "cam locked"), and i found a lot of them, but not a singel one had that system.
The hacks i found where all public hacks.
The most used hack which has all the blink/camlock/maphack etc is listed as verson 1.3.4, but thats the public version, there is also a private version which is listed as 1.4.5 on a Private site, the patch notes for 1.4.5 only says "Lots of Hacks" and you need to pay to get it, pirce was $62.50 Australian dollar.
I tryed to get it just to find out what was in the "private version" but the paypal service is down.
it has been down since 24.04.2012.(a post on the private forum was asking for when it will be back at that date)
so ether the "Spades hack" dose not exsist or its the 1.4.5 private version, becouse that the only hack i was unabel to not read the patch notes for.
ofc i can be bad at google and missed it, but i feel i found the ones most used.
Now i just whant to say that i do not know if Spades hack, i dont play the game at all i just whatch the turnaments and are bronze lvl player at this game. just whanted to try and find the "hack"
and yes this is first post, but not a smurf, had it reg long time but never posts.
use same name on twitch and twitter and what not.
and sry for bad english its 4 in morning. and i am norwagian
stuipd question: can we find out how long time he used and how far he had to move his mouse on the minimap to give the move commands? when "camlock" then take that time and see how fast he have had to move his mouse to do the same commands in the fog of war? since there is a diffrence in how far you have to move the mouse maybe we can tell somthing from that? or maybe i am just overtierd..
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On June 07 2012 10:47 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:46 mrtomjones wrote:On June 07 2012 10:40 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 10:37 mrtomjones wrote:
If the evidence is now too weak to call Spades a hacker will a mod consider making a post that he is not a hacker(Or at the very least that the only evidence that is possible to exist is circumstantial) and clear his name? I am sure it would be best to give it another day to make sure no one figures something out, but I sure hope that this is what happens if he is innocent. We have gotten a lot of new evidences and theories of ways to determine if he is hacking or not by leaving this thread open. Something could still pan out that we haven't looked at yet, and a way to either clear him or indite him more certainly might come to light if we keep the forum of public opinion rolling. It's healthy, no further damage can be done that hasn't already. Which is why I said it might be good to delay that for at least another day. However, if there are no changes and any evidence is only circumstantial then there SHOULD be a post by someone respectable that he is not guilty. I'm not saying for people to stop investigating TL is not going to post that he's not guilty because everyone behind the scenes already knows he's guilty and is looking for a way to prove it/waiting for the community to find a way to prove it. If no one finds anything this will just blow over and everyone will know he hacked without there ever being confirmation. OR they will post that he is guilty regardless based on what we have because that's how it happened with the BW hackers. I know for sure the TL staff/admins have been talking about this and are probably preparing a thread to respond to the situation. ( note intrigue responding pretty fast after the thing with the minimap was posted ) There's a few persistent posters that are keeping this thread still moving but everyone important has already made their decision at this point.
They are most definitely wisely following this thread very closely, and leaving it open was not an oversight: it was done with a very specific intent.
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It feels like the discussion has reached a point where we're not talking about any specifics. Let's get back to some seriously suspicious stuff. I'll just load the replay again to be sure...
Map: MLG Daybreak
Nevermind the shady shadow-boxing prior to this, but at 16:00 Spades decides to send his army up the ramp instead of letting them continue towards the rocks in the middle (to the destroy them, most certainly). He knows Lucifron's army is in that area based on legit intel. He proceeds to not scan before letting his army march up to their potential doom at the hands of sieged tanks and instead goes back to his base to macro for a good 4 seconds (at 200/200 supply, not building barracks or doing anything of use) so that he doesn't even see his army walk up there. He doesn't look back until his army would've been well within potential siege range and possibly in the face of stimmed marines picking off the front row of tanks walking in front of the marine ball.
It is madness! If it wasn't for the fact that on the minimap a maphacker would see that a big blob of blue left that area recently, and only a handful of units are left (all the medivacs).
Explain!
And after this one, we can go on and see what's next.
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EPT
