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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 07 2012 10:12 insanet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:11 CarpetmoOse wrote:
This witch hunt needs to stop. I have seen spades play and watched him and Future practice on streams and there is by no mean a hint of him map hacking. The guy knows what he is doing, he is extremely smart and knows the mechanics of this game greatly.
Also why do I feel like normal timings not being mentioned in this threat something interesting? I watch 90% of the tournys out there and notice one thing, people react to timings. Like Stephano will blindly put roaches in a drop area when a drop was on the way and no overloard picked up on it. Even casters where like "ok I don't know how he knew that was coming besides he is that good and probably knows when to expect a protoss drop play to come and the time it comes." Hell even I myself at my lower ranking levels will do the same cause I can get an odd feeling "ok, he hasn't done anything with what he has out and what he knows I have, a drop must be coming or dual pronged attack." and blindly try to be safe with it. If a drop didn't come, well that sucks but if so, great to catch it. Or as someone said before, his "100% counters" are interesting if a 3 CC expand is countered by a... 3CC as well. Or the 5th game vs Lucifron, when Spades just got udderly destroyed.
Also, why do I keep hearing this "once a hacker, he needs to leave forever." Well if that is the case, one player comes to mind. TT1. WHY the hell is there so much love for him then? TT1 is a fav. of mine too, but the hypocrisy I have heared through this situation and his situation is just sad to see. I don't want this amazing eSports community we have .had. turn to a baseball effect where anyone does good "is on roids or corked bat."
I always had in my mind that the StarCraft community was a friendly, helpful community. This is just sad to see how much hatred really seems to linger. These kind of accusations needs to be closely watched, it doesn't matter if someone truely hacks or not, but in a huge community, that is all that is needed to ruins someone's reputation and all the things they have achieves through hard work and determination. If you catch the person guilty, great! You succeeded in clearing that up to not run into again with that person. If you call them on false claims, doesn't matter, you ruined what he worked so hard to obtain. And for what did anyone gain out of that situation? so you think he is stupid enough to hack on stream? lol. thats way more insulting than saying he maphacks.
Look at Impa, he used them and even stream hacked AND answered inControl's talking live via his stream, so yes. A hacker will not care, what does he have to lose? He didn't care/respect about the game in the first place if he hacks.
Also, I am extremely curious on this. This has almost reached the 300 page mark. The OP has 1 post total, his thread he started. If he wanted to go through such great lengths to get rid of a "true hackers," don't you think he would have at least chimmed in ONCE throughout this whole thing? I bet you if MKP put up a build order that he prefers to use in big tournys, it wouldn't recieve as much attention as fast as this thing has... from an unknown source at that!
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On June 07 2012 10:10 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 08:04 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 08:00 revel8 wrote:On June 07 2012 07:49 mcleod wrote:
Did anyone else notice from Spades stream session yesterday that he has HRGzack on his real friends list? Another known hacker
had to lol at this Really? Where and when is this visible? http://www.twitch.tv/kingspades/b/32050138018:45 Zack Allen (HRGzack) Hmm, real ID friends with a proven hacker. by this logic about 99% of the people on this forum are some kind of criminal because all of us know atleast one shop lifter, drug dealer etc. Who cares who his friends are? I'm friends with a builder, doesn't make me one....
Well when it comes to cheating in competitive online games, the cheats do often stick together and it is always a telling sign if someone is friends with a recognised cheater. The fact they don't have the morals to cease their association with a blatant cheater that has likely ruined the game for hundreds of people shows that they're far more likely to end up being cheaters themselves. The longer they are associated with a cheater, the more likely it is they've had conversations about it and it's been 'accepted', this can swiftly turn into "try it, no one caught me yet" type conversations where the cheat is shared and then used.
All of the evidence taken separately isn't enough to convict him, but if you put it all together you've got yourself a guilty person. Not everyone confesses and almost nobody is blatantly caught in the act (particularly good players trying to hide their use of a cheat).
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On June 07 2012 10:18 Comogury wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:16 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 10:10 emythrel wrote:On June 07 2012 08:04 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 08:00 revel8 wrote:On June 07 2012 07:49 mcleod wrote:
Did anyone else notice from Spades stream session yesterday that he has HRGzack on his real friends list? Another known hacker
had to lol at this Really? Where and when is this visible? http://www.twitch.tv/kingspades/b/32050138018:45 Zack Allen (HRGzack) Hmm, real ID friends with a proven hacker. by this logic about 99% of the people on this forum are some kind of criminal because all of us know atleast one shop lifter, drug dealer etc. Who cares who his friends are? I'm friends with a builder, doesn't make me one.... I simply stated the facts and said hmmm. You implied the logic. Wow this is most stupid thing I have ever read in my life. If you are going to be snide about this kind of thing, people should really just flat out ignore you.
Trust me, we are.
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On June 07 2012 10:19 avc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:10 emythrel wrote:On June 07 2012 08:04 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 08:00 revel8 wrote:On June 07 2012 07:49 mcleod wrote:
Did anyone else notice from Spades stream session yesterday that he has HRGzack on his real friends list? Another known hacker
had to lol at this Really? Where and when is this visible? http://www.twitch.tv/kingspades/b/32050138018:45 Zack Allen (HRGzack) Hmm, real ID friends with a proven hacker. by this logic about 99% of the people on this forum are some kind of criminal because all of us know atleast one shop lifter, drug dealer etc. Who cares who his friends are? I'm friends with a builder, doesn't make me one.... Well when it comes to cheating in competitive online games, the cheats do often stick together and it is always a telling sign if someone is friends with a recognised cheater. The fact they don't have the morals to cease their association with a blatant cheater that has likely ruined the game for hundreds of people shows that they're far more likely to end up being cheaters themselves. The longer they are associated with a cheater, the more likely it is they've had conversations about it and it's been 'accepted', this can swiftly turn into "try it, no one caught me yet" type conversations where the cheat is shared and then used. All of the evidence taken separately isn't enough to convict him, but if you put it all together you've got yourself a guilty person. Not everyone confesses and almost nobody is blatantly caught in the act (particularly good players trying to hide their use of a cheat).
People have been saying that the hack used by Zack is not the same as Spades' so if anything his "friendship" with Zack clears him of that suspicion
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On June 07 2012 10:18 Santiago4ever wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:05 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 10:01 JustTray wrote:On June 07 2012 09:57 Shiori wrote:On June 07 2012 09:55 EtherealDeath wrote:On June 07 2012 09:54 Shiori wrote:On June 07 2012 09:52 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 09:42 jacksonlee wrote:On June 07 2012 09:40 RezJ wrote:On June 07 2012 09:30 toiletCAT wrote:
[quote]
Maybe this, maybe that, maybe the Flux Capacitor. Nice try, what you're saying is "if he's hacking he must be using [known-maphack], and [known-maphack] doesn't work that way, therefore it doesn't make sense!", and I'm saying "X occurs, therefore a hack which causes X is likely involved". On June 07 2012 09:29 jacksonlee wrote:
[quote]
Then how is FOW an evidence that he's hacking, if, as you propose, the so-called hack can cover all grounds in regards to FOW. Not sure I understand what you're asking, but the fact that the fog never comes into his vision could very well be used as evidence for cheating (correct me if I'm wrong). Is there an inconsistency here? o.o But my whole argument was that he DOES in fact look at FOW, whether his units are selected or not He looks at the FOW verrrry infrequently and not in normal ways as defined by the control group of his ladder games (and 95% of other pro's ways of looking at FOW). For instance, in his ladder games, and in any other foreign or korean pro game, the screen is scrolled into FOW to look at enemy base frequently. The screen is scrolled around just outside your army location, followed by scan drops. The lack of scouting in these games, the lack of normal screen movements, the fact that a scan drops THEN he looks at it, the fact that he blindly moves his army time and again into watchtowers and risky positions that just happened to not contain a siege line seven games in a row.....it just doesn't add up. For each fishy incident you can come back and say 'well since we can't definitively prove this isn't just a coincidence in normal play we can chock that up to luck or gosu senses'. HOW MANY TIMES CAN YOU SAY THIS before you must start to question whether these things can happen back to back over and over in several different series? How many inconsistencies can you see in these items as compared to the normalities of his ladder pack mechanics before you start to say it can't be mere coincidences that many times in a row? Where is the line people? How many more fishy incidents do you need? We have 7 games with fishy incidents here, and 3 games of incidents there, then a few random 1v1's where similar weird things happened. What is the number? 20? 30? How many games with unexplainable coincidences and uncharacteristic mechanics does it take before you stop giving him the benefit of the doubt? Or is there just never ever enough suspicious activity that will make up your mind, until you see it with your own eyes or are giving the positive results of a nonexistent hack scanner finding it to be true? Short of him confessing which it's obvious he has no intention of doing, you must rely on the circumstantial evidence that has been provided And then again my question becomes: where is that line? How much more shady shit do you need to see before you decide? How many more games? Say a number. I'd say if I see another series in the future with the same inexplicable behaviour which simultaneously contrasts with his performance at MLG/playstyle there, I'd be more inclined to call him a hacker. As it is, though...it's not really conclusive at all. It's not even close to it, honestly. He doesn't look NEARLY as shady as that Zack guy, even forgoing the obvious Blink hacks. Actually his play is really fucking shady lol, all technical-related "evidence" aside. Some parts are shady, some parts are really not. Initially when I read the OP's post I was convinced that it was all shady, but pretty much all of it has plausible explanations. Even Illusion's analysis rested rather heavily on some particular siege moments which have been shown to have plausible motives. I don't want you to take offense to this, but what league are you? I mean, what is the highest league in starcraft 2 that you have EVER been? You make a lot of posts declaring this evidence isn't damning, when myself, someone who has played maybe 5k games of master level of every race, including numerous games versus hackers, conclusive. I would just like to know what basis of experience you are basing your opinion. My guess is very little to none other than your very opinionated beliefs. I would also be interested in this. Would everyone simply state their race and league and games played on their home realm real quick? Just so we can get an idea of the level of understanding we have of the game? Terran Rank44 Masters NA 3200+ games played. 1900+ Ork, 1900+ Chaos, 1800+ random, top inf/switcher. Wait which game are we talking about now again? I'm chobo at SC2, was top 200/top 100 EU (random, always said my race) a couple of times in beta, snoozed my way into master a couple of times since then but didn't have the time to go pro so don't see any point in playing that much. If I had 3200+ games I'd probably be pro though  Massing games doesn't necessarily mean understanding of the game. Rank doesn't mean understanding of the game has been achieved. I watch a lot of sc2 when I've got time and I've got excellent game-sense. I've also seen plenty of hacker witch-hunts throughout several different games, helped debunk a lot of them as well. I started out pretty much convinced Spades was guilty again, but the evidence isn't there. Basically all that's left right now is "I wouldn't have done that" and a bunch of lucky moves (which were mixed in with at least as many unlucky/poor moves which lost him the series).
While rank and games played certainly doesn't mean close to everything, it is certainly likely to force you to learn the game in depth through repetition and challenge.
Your credentials in RTS more than make up for your lack of them in SC2.
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On June 07 2012 10:19 CarpetmoOse wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:12 insanet wrote:On June 07 2012 10:11 CarpetmoOse wrote:
This witch hunt needs to stop. I have seen spades play and watched him and Future practice on streams and there is by no mean a hint of him map hacking. The guy knows what he is doing, he is extremely smart and knows the mechanics of this game greatly.
Also why do I feel like normal timings not being mentioned in this threat something interesting? I watch 90% of the tournys out there and notice one thing, people react to timings. Like Stephano will blindly put roaches in a drop area when a drop was on the way and no overloard picked up on it. Even casters where like "ok I don't know how he knew that was coming besides he is that good and probably knows when to expect a protoss drop play to come and the time it comes." Hell even I myself at my lower ranking levels will do the same cause I can get an odd feeling "ok, he hasn't done anything with what he has out and what he knows I have, a drop must be coming or dual pronged attack." and blindly try to be safe with it. If a drop didn't come, well that sucks but if so, great to catch it. Or as someone said before, his "100% counters" are interesting if a 3 CC expand is countered by a... 3CC as well. Or the 5th game vs Lucifron, when Spades just got udderly destroyed.
Also, why do I keep hearing this "once a hacker, he needs to leave forever." Well if that is the case, one player comes to mind. TT1. WHY the hell is there so much love for him then? TT1 is a fav. of mine too, but the hypocrisy I have heared through this situation and his situation is just sad to see. I don't want this amazing eSports community we have .had. turn to a baseball effect where anyone does good "is on roids or corked bat."
I always had in my mind that the StarCraft community was a friendly, helpful community. This is just sad to see how much hatred really seems to linger. These kind of accusations needs to be closely watched, it doesn't matter if someone truely hacks or not, but in a huge community, that is all that is needed to ruins someone's reputation and all the things they have achieves through hard work and determination. If you catch the person guilty, great! You succeeded in clearing that up to not run into again with that person. If you call them on false claims, doesn't matter, you ruined what he worked so hard to obtain. And for what did anyone gain out of that situation? so you think he is stupid enough to hack on stream? lol. thats way more insulting than saying he maphacks. Look at Impa, he used them and even stream hacked AND answered inControl's talking live via his stream, so yes. A hacker will not care, what does he have to lose? He didn't care/respect about the game in the first place if he hacks. Also, I am extremely curious on this. This has almost reached the 300 page mark. The OP has 1 post total, his thread he started. If he wanted to go through such great lengths to get rid of a "true hackers," don't you think he would have at least chimmed in ONCE throughout this whole thing? I bet you if MKP put up a build order that he prefers to use in big tournys, it wouldn't recieve as much attention as fast as this thing has... from an unknown source at that!
he's a " professional " who goes to big tournaments like MLG, if he's a hacker he will be banned from all competition.
what's hard to understand about that?
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Then why isn't TT1? He admited it and even has it said so on his blog on TL. Mind explaing your reasoning why to do so to Spades and not TT1?
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On June 07 2012 10:20 jacksonlee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:19 avc wrote:On June 07 2012 10:10 emythrel wrote:On June 07 2012 08:04 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 08:00 revel8 wrote:On June 07 2012 07:49 mcleod wrote:
Did anyone else notice from Spades stream session yesterday that he has HRGzack on his real friends list? Another known hacker
had to lol at this Really? Where and when is this visible? http://www.twitch.tv/kingspades/b/32050138018:45 Zack Allen (HRGzack) Hmm, real ID friends with a proven hacker. by this logic about 99% of the people on this forum are some kind of criminal because all of us know atleast one shop lifter, drug dealer etc. Who cares who his friends are? I'm friends with a builder, doesn't make me one.... Well when it comes to cheating in competitive online games, the cheats do often stick together and it is always a telling sign if someone is friends with a recognised cheater. The fact they don't have the morals to cease their association with a blatant cheater that has likely ruined the game for hundreds of people shows that they're far more likely to end up being cheaters themselves. The longer they are associated with a cheater, the more likely it is they've had conversations about it and it's been 'accepted', this can swiftly turn into "try it, no one caught me yet" type conversations where the cheat is shared and then used. All of the evidence taken separately isn't enough to convict him, but if you put it all together you've got yourself a guilty person. Not everyone confesses and almost nobody is blatantly caught in the act (particularly good players trying to hide their use of a cheat). People have been saying that the hack used by Zack is not the same as Spades' so if anything his "friendship" with Zack clears him of that suspicion
If by people you mean me since I appear to be the only one in this thread who's been comparing the two through actually watching of the games. But as I said, it's just "within parameters" that Zack is using the hack I am testing, which happens to be THE popular public hack.
I can only say that Zack may be using it, but Spades for sure is not using it (would have to be a private hack he's using).
edit - Spades for sure not using the camera lock feature on it anyways, could be using the observer tab, minimap hack, maphack and I wouldn't be able to tell except through his play, which people have mentioned is shady as hell.
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On June 07 2012 10:18 Comogury wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:16 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 10:10 emythrel wrote:On June 07 2012 08:04 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 08:00 revel8 wrote:On June 07 2012 07:49 mcleod wrote:
Did anyone else notice from Spades stream session yesterday that he has HRGzack on his real friends list? Another known hacker
had to lol at this Really? Where and when is this visible? http://www.twitch.tv/kingspades/b/32050138018:45 Zack Allen (HRGzack) Hmm, real ID friends with a proven hacker. by this logic about 99% of the people on this forum are some kind of criminal because all of us know atleast one shop lifter, drug dealer etc. Who cares who his friends are? I'm friends with a builder, doesn't make me one.... I simply stated the facts and said hmmm. You implied the logic. Wow this is most stupid thing I have ever read in my life. If you are going to be snide about this kind of thing, people should really just flat out ignore you.
I'm snide when people imply I'm really that stupid enough to really believe he's guilty by association.
I wasn't talking to you anyway, he's a big boy, he can handle his own conversation.
All I was doing was showing someone where in a timeline of a VOD that you can see his REALID friends, and informing them that one of his real ID friends is a known hacker. I'll let people make their own assumptions.
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On June 07 2012 10:11 caradoc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:08 Chessz wrote:
Ok, for any detractors -- please explain why he (almost) never looks at the FoW in the bo7 ? Yea I saw him do it when he needed to expand, and maybe one odd time during each match, but this is still suspiciously low in frequency. Look at his MLG replays or his stream vods and even on the same maps he's looking into the fog of war for rallies and scouting all the time, basically as frequent as one would expect.
I've viewed the replays myself and Catz analysis and been following this thread, and I'm pretty convinced. mid masters one season, #1 GM the next.. okay. The fog of war thing is open to a manual statistical analysis. If someone did the stats on minimap usage in the bo7, and was able to compare it with say 20-30 games that are confirmed hack-free, that would be pretty damn strong evidence. The thing is, this isn't amenable to scripting. bleh. who wants to go over that many replays manually?
AFAIK people have already done the comparison earlier in the thread - tens to hundreds of times of looking in the FOW in the hack-free games compared to only a few times each game in the showmatch games. Even 10 vs. 1 is not difficult to prove statistically significant even with a sample size of 7, is that right? (not a stats expert)
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On June 07 2012 10:25 EtherealDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:20 jacksonlee wrote:On June 07 2012 10:19 avc wrote:On June 07 2012 10:10 emythrel wrote:On June 07 2012 08:04 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 08:00 revel8 wrote:On June 07 2012 07:49 mcleod wrote:
Did anyone else notice from Spades stream session yesterday that he has HRGzack on his real friends list? Another known hacker
had to lol at this Really? Where and when is this visible? http://www.twitch.tv/kingspades/b/32050138018:45 Zack Allen (HRGzack) Hmm, real ID friends with a proven hacker. by this logic about 99% of the people on this forum are some kind of criminal because all of us know atleast one shop lifter, drug dealer etc. Who cares who his friends are? I'm friends with a builder, doesn't make me one.... Well when it comes to cheating in competitive online games, the cheats do often stick together and it is always a telling sign if someone is friends with a recognised cheater. The fact they don't have the morals to cease their association with a blatant cheater that has likely ruined the game for hundreds of people shows that they're far more likely to end up being cheaters themselves. The longer they are associated with a cheater, the more likely it is they've had conversations about it and it's been 'accepted', this can swiftly turn into "try it, no one caught me yet" type conversations where the cheat is shared and then used. All of the evidence taken separately isn't enough to convict him, but if you put it all together you've got yourself a guilty person. Not everyone confesses and almost nobody is blatantly caught in the act (particularly good players trying to hide their use of a cheat). People have been saying that the hack used by Zack is not the same as Spades' so if anything his "friendship" with Zack clears him of that suspicion If by people you mean me since I appear to be the only one in this thread who's been comparing the two through actually watching of the games. But as I said, it's just "within parameters" that Zack is using the hack I am testing, which happens to be THE popular public hack. I can only say that Zack may be using it, but Spades for sure is not using it (would have to be a private hack he's using).
I have too... Sigh.
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On June 07 2012 10:11 CarpetmoOse wrote:
This witch hunt needs to stop. I have seen spades play and watched him and Future practice on streams and there is by no mean a hint of him map hacking. The guy knows what he is doing, he is extremely smart and knows the mechanics of this game greatly.
You think if someone is smart and has good mechanics that they can't also maphack? Does the maphack suddenly invalidate any existing skill? This statement is ridiculous.
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On June 07 2012 10:33 Dox wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:11 CarpetmoOse wrote:
This witch hunt needs to stop. I have seen spades play and watched him and Future practice on streams and there is by no mean a hint of him map hacking. The guy knows what he is doing, he is extremely smart and knows the mechanics of this game greatly. You think if someone is smart and has good mechanics that they can't also maphack? Does the maphack suddenly invalidate any existing skill? This statement is ridiculous.
By your logic, everyone are potential hackers. This statement is ridiculous, too.
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If the evidence is now too weak to call Spades a hacker will a mod consider making a post that he is not a hacker(Or at the very least that the only evidence that is possible to exist is circumstantial) and clear his name? I am sure it would be best to give it another day to make sure no one figures something out, but I sure hope that this is what happens if he is innocent.
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On June 07 2012 10:35 toiletCAT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:33 Dox wrote:On June 07 2012 10:11 CarpetmoOse wrote:
This witch hunt needs to stop. I have seen spades play and watched him and Future practice on streams and there is by no mean a hint of him map hacking. The guy knows what he is doing, he is extremely smart and knows the mechanics of this game greatly. You think if someone is smart and has good mechanics that they can't also maphack? Does the maphack suddenly invalidate any existing skill? This statement is ridiculous. By your logic, everyone are potential hackers. This statement is ridiculous, too.
Everyone is a potential hacker. If you have a computer with Starcraft 2 installed and like to win, you are a potential hacker.
If their games don't seem that fishy then they probably aren't. If their games seem fishy, and other games they played don't seem fishy at all, maybe they hacked in the fishy games?
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On June 07 2012 10:19 CarpetmoOse wrote:
Also, I am extremely curious on this. This has almost reached the 300 page mark. The OP has 1 post total, his thread he started. If he wanted to go through such great lengths to get rid of a "true hackers," don't you think he would have at least chimmed in ONCE throughout this whole thing?
What makes you think he hasn't been posting on his normal account throughout the duration of this thread?
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On June 07 2012 10:37 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:35 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 10:33 Dox wrote:On June 07 2012 10:11 CarpetmoOse wrote:
This witch hunt needs to stop. I have seen spades play and watched him and Future practice on streams and there is by no mean a hint of him map hacking. The guy knows what he is doing, he is extremely smart and knows the mechanics of this game greatly. You think if someone is smart and has good mechanics that they can't also maphack? Does the maphack suddenly invalidate any existing skill? This statement is ridiculous. By your logic, everyone are potential hackers. This statement is ridiculous, too. Everyone is a potential hacker. If you have a computer with Starcraft 2 installed and like to win, you are a potential hacker. If their games don't seem that fishy then they probably aren't. If their games seem fishy, and other games they played don't seem fishy at all, maybe they hacked in the fishy games?
Or maybe they played completely unsuspiciously and hacked? The possibilities are endless, and the argument is silly.
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On June 07 2012 07:09 Xyik wrote:
Not sure why people keep saying the 'burden of proof' is on the accusers .. there has been enough suspicious evidence that half the people here thinks he hacks. The burden of proof is now on Spades to perform well at Anaheim, otherwise its over for him.
Burden of proof is ALWAYS on the person making the claim.
For example, it's not my job to prove to someone that believes in Bigfoot that Bigfoot does NOT exist. That is impossible.
It's very easy to speculate, and not matter how much evidence there is to disprove a theory, people can remain skeptical.
A good example are Birther's and Obama. There is overwhelming evidence that Obama IS an American citizen (passports, birth certificate, IRS records, getting past CIA background checks and the 2004 Democratic Primary), but there will never be enough evidence to disprove a conspiracy theorist.
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On June 07 2012 10:37 mrtomjones wrote:
If the evidence is now too weak to call Spades a hacker will a mod consider making a post that he is not a hacker(Or at the very least that the only evidence that is possible to exist is circumstantial) and clear his name? I am sure it would be best to give it another day to make sure no one figures something out, but I sure hope that this is what happens if he is innocent.
We have gotten a lot of new evidences and theories of ways to determine if he is hacking or not by leaving this thread open. Something could still pan out that we haven't looked at yet, and a way to either clear him or indite him more certainly might come to light if we keep the forum of public opinion rolling. It's healthy, no further damage can be done that hasn't already.
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On June 07 2012 10:35 toiletCAT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 10:33 Dox wrote:On June 07 2012 10:11 CarpetmoOse wrote:
This witch hunt needs to stop. I have seen spades play and watched him and Future practice on streams and there is by no mean a hint of him map hacking. The guy knows what he is doing, he is extremely smart and knows the mechanics of this game greatly. You think if someone is smart and has good mechanics that they can't also maphack? Does the maphack suddenly invalidate any existing skill? This statement is ridiculous. By your logic, everyone are potential hackers. This statement is ridiculous, too.
What? How on earth did you reach that conclusion?
The post I quoted said, "Spades is a good player, therefore he can't possibly be a hacker." He's implying that ONLY bad players use hacks. I'm just highlighting that there are plenty of good players who also hack. Poor mechanics and low intelligence are not prerequisites to cheating.
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EPT
