|
07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
Train is still rolling, TL is still not ending this thread... Apparently the IP matches existing users, but they won't release the name...
I was always curious, in ancient times, or medieval when the church/ruling party declared a witch with no proof other than (if we drop you off a cliff, or burn you, you should survive if you're a witch and die if not) what it would look like. You, the idiotic pitchfork carrying majority posting in this thread, are very interesting to observe... It's a shame that Spades has to be the witch who is forced to deny hacking against a poster who TL is hiding (apparently)... Last time I checked, if you accuse something, you don't call that conclusive evidence, especially an anonymous tip.
But hey, we're humans and apparently we are naturally acustomed to believe anything we hear. I have to go, my house hippo requires feeding.
|
On June 06 2012 04:20 JustTray wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:16 Acritter wrote:On June 06 2012 04:09 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 04:03 Acritter wrote:On June 06 2012 03:59 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:56 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:55 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:52 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:50 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 06 2012 03:42 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
Lol. No matter what he says someone is going to take issue with it and use it as evidence (because everyone here suddenly morphs into a psychologist every time there's controversy) of whatever conclusion they want.
Yep, ex-teamates and former managers calling him a stream cheater while living with him, numerous pro players and community figures analyzing his games agreeing that he's hacker and cheater, Spades putting up a half ass effort defending himself trying to play the victim,ohhh and he's ALREADY A PROVEN HACKER, people are just drawing whatever conclusion they want right? People are doing exactly that. Axeltoss has made some very convincing analyses that basically make a lot of what Catz said irrelevant. Gix/Artist/Mihai's comments concern something completely different than maphacking. Lots of people streamcheat who don't maphack. Streamcheating is not sufficient to establish maphacking. He was a proven hacker in a different game. He did not hack in Sc2 for a long time (at the very least). That needs to count for something. It doesn't count for anything. If it did, it would only count that its more likely he's a hacker. Once a hacker, always a hacker. You're probably defending him because you are him, are friends with him, or are a hacker yourself. Yeah, clearly I'm Spades. Hope you're being sarcastic. I'm not sure how that refutes my point. Are you one of the teenage children who thinks a legal standard of proof is required for the public to out a video game hacker? Because those people are literally the dumbest ones in this thread. The evidence is there. It's VERY damning. You don't get to dismiss things just because they don't mesh with your preconceived notions. The same goes to you. What about the posts from actual hackers that outline the fact that Spades COULD NOT have been using camera lock? Are you just dismissing those? How about the post from that D3 or whatever website that called the people on TeamLiquid idiots and said that Spades wasn't hacking? You're throwing aside input from experts to follow along with your own "preconceived notions". Before anyone can accuse Spades of maphacking, they need to find a hack that he realistically could have been using. As of right now, none have surfaced. If someone can find one, then I will accept that he was most likely maphacking. If nobody can find one, then it is absolutely impossible that he was maphacking. You mean, the notion that admitted Hackers are asserting that there is only one hack, that doesn't allow you to make actions, therefore Spades could not have cheated? Yes, I'm entirely discounting that, because I'm a rational, logical person, not a moron. There ARE more than 1 version of hacks, and any skilled hacker wouldn't bother to use a packaged one, they would customize it. Not saying that's the case, I'm just saying that to believe hackers defending other hackers and for that reason, is literally the dumbest thing you could do. So no, we don't need to find the hack he used. Not at all. That's an unreasonable, and unnecessary level of proof that only a hacker, or the person being accused would ever think is reasonable. Due to this post the entirely of your opinions can be routinely ignored as entirely without merit, logic, or reason. If anything, you only solidify the case that he is 100% a hacker. You do yourself a favor and him if you don't post your fallacies any longer. If it is impossible to replicate the tool used to commit the crime, then there was no crime committed. If, to prove that someone committed a murder, you need a bullet that can pass through a brick wall without leaving a trace, then you can't prove that that person committed the murder. This is really, really simple. If the crime is impossible to recreate, it is scientifically impossible that it happened. Miracles and magic are not acceptable evidence in a court of law. This is not a court of law. "If it is impossible to replicate the tool used to commit the crime, then there was no crime committed." This is an absolute falsehood. People go to jail on circumstantial evidence every day. Again, your posts are without merit, logic, or reason. You are now being ignored, and everyone else should do so as well.
Nobody has ever gone to jail for using an impossible weapon. All you have used is rhetoric to back up your empty points. If there is no hack he could have been using, then he could not have been hacking. That is all that can be said on the issue.
|
On June 06 2012 03:19 Spades wrote:
Well after sleeping on it, I still don't really know what to say. But I can say this.
Some pro's have come to me with support, or defended me in this thread. Other pro's have found it necessary to stream to 6k+ people that they have concrete technical evidence I hacked. Which shortly afterward had been proven wrong or inaccurate in this thread. I have done my best with limited knowledge to explain the situations of "suspicious activity". By "done my best" I imply that it is very difficult to accurately depict your exact thought process at these instances in the game, without actually being in that exact given moment playing the game. I made lucky judgement calls based on a lot of prior research. I also made countless terrible calls, resulting in losing some of the games. I think I played very poorly, and was actually quite lucky to have finished 3-4 vs LucifroN. I don't think it was an accurate depiction of how I normally play, but mirror matchups tend to be have a lot of random chance factor in.
I won't be posting here again unless I find it imperative to do so. I have to try and focus on Anaheim, in which I will be participating in WCS and MLG. I have been practicing very hard for these events, and I hope to show how I can really play.
Thanks for all who support me.
Spades, you still seem to ignore this question, so i will ask you once more.
Why did you not look once into the fog of war in bo7
but seem to look into it all the time on your stream? and games you had sent us
|
On June 06 2012 04:16 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:09 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 04:03 Acritter wrote:On June 06 2012 03:59 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:56 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:55 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:52 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:50 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 06 2012 03:42 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:40 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:
[quote]
You don't know what to say? If you weren't hacking, you either don't address the issue at all because there is nothing to address or you do the other extreme and type in all caps THAT YOU ARE INNOCENT AND YOU DIDN'T HACK. Remember. Truth is the ultimate defense. No, instead you try to play the victim and blame the mob mentality. Your defense is laughable in all honesty. You need to either confess or just retire because you are embarrassing yourself. You are a disgrace to this community sorry. Lol. No matter what he says someone is going to take issue with it and use it as evidence (because everyone here suddenly morphs into a psychologist every time there's controversy) of whatever conclusion they want. Yep, ex-teamates and former managers calling him a stream cheater while living with him, numerous pro players and community figures analyzing his games agreeing that he's hacker and cheater, Spades putting up a half ass effort defending himself trying to play the victim,ohhh and he's ALREADY A PROVEN HACKER, people are just drawing whatever conclusion they want right? People are doing exactly that. Axeltoss has made some very convincing analyses that basically make a lot of what Catz said irrelevant. Gix/Artist/Mihai's comments concern something completely different than maphacking. Lots of people streamcheat who don't maphack. Streamcheating is not sufficient to establish maphacking. He was a proven hacker in a different game. He did not hack in Sc2 for a long time (at the very least). That needs to count for something. It doesn't count for anything. If it did, it would only count that its more likely he's a hacker. Once a hacker, always a hacker. You're probably defending him because you are him, are friends with him, or are a hacker yourself. Yeah, clearly I'm Spades. Hope you're being sarcastic. I'm not sure how that refutes my point. Are you one of the teenage children who thinks a legal standard of proof is required for the public to out a video game hacker? Because those people are literally the dumbest ones in this thread. The evidence is there. It's VERY damning. You don't get to dismiss things just because they don't mesh with your preconceived notions. The same goes to you. What about the posts from actual hackers that outline the fact that Spades COULD NOT have been using camera lock? Are you just dismissing those? How about the post from that D3 or whatever website that called the people on TeamLiquid idiots and said that Spades wasn't hacking? You're throwing aside input from experts to follow along with your own "preconceived notions". Before anyone can accuse Spades of maphacking, they need to find a hack that he realistically could have been using. As of right now, none have surfaced. If someone can find one, then I will accept that he was most likely maphacking. If nobody can find one, then it is absolutely impossible that he was maphacking. You mean, the notion that admitted Hackers are asserting that there is only one hack, that doesn't allow you to make actions, therefore Spades could not have cheated? Yes, I'm entirely discounting that, because I'm a rational, logical person, not a moron. There ARE more than 1 version of hacks, and any skilled hacker wouldn't bother to use a packaged one, they would customize it. Not saying that's the case, I'm just saying that to believe hackers defending other hackers and for that reason, is literally the dumbest thing you could do. So no, we don't need to find the hack he used. Not at all. That's an unreasonable, and unnecessary level of proof that only a hacker, or the person being accused would ever think is reasonable. Due to this post the entirely of your opinions can be routinely ignored as entirely without merit, logic, or reason. If anything, you only solidify the case that he is 100% a hacker. You do yourself a favor and him if you don't post your fallacies any longer. If it is impossible to replicate the tool used to commit the crime, then there was no crime committed. If, to prove that someone committed a murder, you need a bullet that can pass through a brick wall without leaving a trace, then you can't prove that that person committed the murder. This is really, really simple. If the crime is impossible to recreate, it is scientifically impossible that it happened. Miracles and magic are not acceptable evidence in a court of law.
This is trivial to replicate though. The things that you are saying do not exist could have easily been added to the publicly available hack. The fact that he was selecting his hotkeyed units while the camera lock was on does not mean that he was not using a camera lock. The no-selection-while-locked is protection feature so hackers dont accidentally give themselves away, not a requirement of the lock. Disabling that protection means he can lock camera and spam hotkeys while he's looking around the map.
|
I would definitely like to know if anyone has found any instances of Spades looking into the fog, and if Spades himself has an explanation for this. This is probably the only thing that hasn't been answered so far.
|
Hi my name is Durzo and I am a relatively bad player although I did manage to reach the top 200 NA ladder scene peaking somewhere around rank 150 during Season 2-3. With that being said I personally played many games in a lan setting with Spades including show matches and even one in which he 2-0'd Huk as we both live in Florida. I just wanted to say while far from conclusive I have never seen him stream cheat or hack and saw absolutely nothing that led me to believe he did such practices.
|
idk whats worst,
hacking on sc2
or giving death threats because someone was accused of hacking.
freaking people...
|
On June 06 2012 03:47 chebhe wrote:
Yay, Axeltoss thinks critically and rootCatz is spreading slander.
Why would CatZ do anything he doesn't know Spades really well and he has nothing to gain. He just went through the replays and decided just like everyone else did. Just because Axel proved it can be done doesn't mean that Spades wasn't hacking it just means it can be done without hacking. It is of course a really weird thing to be honest and I get what Axel is saying with the video but you would 100% of the time scan and want to see exactly you are seeing so why would you flick back?
To be honest if you completely disregard the evidence of the magic scans since it is possible (even though completely stupid) there is still really valid points that they made other than that. Like for instance the fact that he never has a full screen of fog in any of the games people are accusing him of hacking. The reason why that is a problem is that in regular play you should always look at the fog a few times to move units to accurately move around the map and as a terran to place scans.
The points CatZ made still have never been addressed by Spades and I actually think by his reactions he did hack. He was watching the rundown of why and he never actually explained the reasoning behind the differences in his play between streamed ladder games and the alleged hacking games for instance and that is extremely damming at least in my book.
Personally I think he did it, I cant prove it other than how fishy it is. He has a reputation of hacking in the past. His credibility has been invalidated by his team mate GiX and his former team manager who apparently seen him stream cheating. In my opinion how can you trust him at this point. He doesn't defend himself against the valid concerns of other players who rationally and without any prejudice looked a the replays with an open mind and found it to be incriminating. There is no impa obvious peeking at fog without camera lock but there is other behavior that gives solid proof that he knew stuff that he wasn't supposed to or could not know by unit positioning and clearly blind countering the opponents opening each game.
Then if you take into account the sudden and dramatic jump to number 1 GM after he left the ReIGN house then you start to get the reasoning why its pretty clear in my mind.
Of course I know how huge accusing someone of cheating is and maybe my opinion doesn't mean much in the whole order of things but I think he did it and its only supported by the fact that he was a known map hacker in BW.
|
On June 06 2012 04:22 fraktoasters wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:16 Acritter wrote:On June 06 2012 04:09 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 04:03 Acritter wrote:On June 06 2012 03:59 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:56 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:55 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:52 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:50 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 06 2012 03:42 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
Lol. No matter what he says someone is going to take issue with it and use it as evidence (because everyone here suddenly morphs into a psychologist every time there's controversy) of whatever conclusion they want.
Yep, ex-teamates and former managers calling him a stream cheater while living with him, numerous pro players and community figures analyzing his games agreeing that he's hacker and cheater, Spades putting up a half ass effort defending himself trying to play the victim,ohhh and he's ALREADY A PROVEN HACKER, people are just drawing whatever conclusion they want right? People are doing exactly that. Axeltoss has made some very convincing analyses that basically make a lot of what Catz said irrelevant. Gix/Artist/Mihai's comments concern something completely different than maphacking. Lots of people streamcheat who don't maphack. Streamcheating is not sufficient to establish maphacking. He was a proven hacker in a different game. He did not hack in Sc2 for a long time (at the very least). That needs to count for something. It doesn't count for anything. If it did, it would only count that its more likely he's a hacker. Once a hacker, always a hacker. You're probably defending him because you are him, are friends with him, or are a hacker yourself. Yeah, clearly I'm Spades. Hope you're being sarcastic. I'm not sure how that refutes my point. Are you one of the teenage children who thinks a legal standard of proof is required for the public to out a video game hacker? Because those people are literally the dumbest ones in this thread. The evidence is there. It's VERY damning. You don't get to dismiss things just because they don't mesh with your preconceived notions. The same goes to you. What about the posts from actual hackers that outline the fact that Spades COULD NOT have been using camera lock? Are you just dismissing those? How about the post from that D3 or whatever website that called the people on TeamLiquid idiots and said that Spades wasn't hacking? You're throwing aside input from experts to follow along with your own "preconceived notions". Before anyone can accuse Spades of maphacking, they need to find a hack that he realistically could have been using. As of right now, none have surfaced. If someone can find one, then I will accept that he was most likely maphacking. If nobody can find one, then it is absolutely impossible that he was maphacking. You mean, the notion that admitted Hackers are asserting that there is only one hack, that doesn't allow you to make actions, therefore Spades could not have cheated? Yes, I'm entirely discounting that, because I'm a rational, logical person, not a moron. There ARE more than 1 version of hacks, and any skilled hacker wouldn't bother to use a packaged one, they would customize it. Not saying that's the case, I'm just saying that to believe hackers defending other hackers and for that reason, is literally the dumbest thing you could do. So no, we don't need to find the hack he used. Not at all. That's an unreasonable, and unnecessary level of proof that only a hacker, or the person being accused would ever think is reasonable. Due to this post the entirely of your opinions can be routinely ignored as entirely without merit, logic, or reason. If anything, you only solidify the case that he is 100% a hacker. You do yourself a favor and him if you don't post your fallacies any longer. If it is impossible to replicate the tool used to commit the crime, then there was no crime committed. If, to prove that someone committed a murder, you need a bullet that can pass through a brick wall without leaving a trace, then you can't prove that that person committed the murder. This is really, really simple. If the crime is impossible to recreate, it is scientifically impossible that it happened. Miracles and magic are not acceptable evidence in a court of law. Programming is not Miracles or Magic.
Are you suggesting Spades produced his own maphack by himself? Please indicate what programming experience he has.
|
On June 06 2012 04:21 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:14 Dodgin wrote:On June 06 2012 04:11 Acritter wrote:On June 06 2012 04:06 Nyast wrote:On June 06 2012 04:03 CptGrackSparrow wrote:
I'm willing to overlook all the "luck" spades had in position or build orders, the amazing scans, and when he stares at his base for 5-10 seconds. The one thing I'm not willing to overlook is the fact that he never once looks into the fog of war during his games vs. lucifron but commonly does in other games. But he does. Many times ! And people in this thread keep taking the OP's word for granted. It baffles me... Right now I'm unconvinced of either case, but the OP is full of wrong facts, and anybody who seriously tries to analyze the OP's arguments by looking at the replays himself can see that 80% of them do not hold true. If it's true that he does look at fog of war, then the argument that he is maphacking falls flat. We already have hacker testimony that he is not hacking, and it is disgusting how it's being shunted aside in favor of the "evidence" presented by people who are not familiar with the field at all. It's like trusting a plumber over a doctor to diagnose an illness. I'm getting more and more convinced that Spades is NOT cheating. You're going to believe a random person saying he's not hacking because they are hackers. Gotcha. You know who the software companies listen to in regards to computer security? The hackers. Yes, I'll listen to hackers, because they actually know what they're talking about. You know who I won't listen to? Some random person who knows nothing about hacking but thinks they're qualified to make judgment. Someone like... I dunno, CatZ. Go find a hack that can account for Spades' play, and I'll listen to you. Until then, it is IMPOSSIBLE that Spades was hacking. Not improbable. Impossible. In the words of Arthur Conan Doyle (voice Sherlock Holmes), "How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
Your critical thinking needs some serious work. Simply because you do not currently know of a hack that exactly explains the observed actions, it does not make hacking "IMPOSSIBRU". Saying that it's "impossible" because you can't conclusively prove he was hacking is equally flawed logic as saying he was certainly hacking without conclusive proof.
|
Regardless of whether or not Spades was hacking in that particular showmatch, we can pretty sure he's hacked in SC2 prior to now, given what his former coach and a teammate have said. So he's a hacker. Case closed. The big question is, how many pro SC2 players know about other pros hacking, and are covering for them with silence? It'd be nice if they'd all come forward, rather than contributing to the problem with silence.
|
So how should these situations be dealt with?
|
On June 06 2012 04:21 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:19 OneOther wrote:On June 06 2012 04:02 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:59 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:56 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:55 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:52 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:50 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 06 2012 03:42 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:40 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:
[quote]
You don't know what to say? If you weren't hacking, you either don't address the issue at all because there is nothing to address or you do the other extreme and type in all caps THAT YOU ARE INNOCENT AND YOU DIDN'T HACK. Remember. Truth is the ultimate defense. No, instead you try to play the victim and blame the mob mentality. Your defense is laughable in all honesty. You need to either confess or just retire because you are embarrassing yourself. You are a disgrace to this community sorry. Lol. No matter what he says someone is going to take issue with it and use it as evidence (because everyone here suddenly morphs into a psychologist every time there's controversy) of whatever conclusion they want. Yep, ex-teamates and former managers calling him a stream cheater while living with him, numerous pro players and community figures analyzing his games agreeing that he's hacker and cheater, Spades putting up a half ass effort defending himself trying to play the victim,ohhh and he's ALREADY A PROVEN HACKER, people are just drawing whatever conclusion they want right? People are doing exactly that. Axeltoss has made some very convincing analyses that basically make a lot of what Catz said irrelevant. Gix/Artist/Mihai's comments concern something completely different than maphacking. Lots of people streamcheat who don't maphack. Streamcheating is not sufficient to establish maphacking. He was a proven hacker in a different game. He did not hack in Sc2 for a long time (at the very least). That needs to count for something. It doesn't count for anything. If it did, it would only count that its more likely he's a hacker. Once a hacker, always a hacker. You're probably defending him because you are him, are friends with him, or are a hacker yourself. Yeah, clearly I'm Spades. Hope you're being sarcastic. I'm not sure how that refutes my point. Are you one of the teenage children who thinks a legal standard of proof is required for the public to out a video game hacker? Because those people are literally the dumbest ones in this thread. The evidence is there. It's VERY damning. You don't get to dismiss things just because they don't mesh with your preconceived notions. I'm one of the people who thinks you're a moron for implying that I'm affiliated with Spades (or myself a hacker) simply because I don't think there's sufficient evidence, and because you said that "once a hacker, always a hacker." What's your rationale behind spending hours and hours defending him against people's own opinions and judgements? Look, there's not going to be some damning irrefutable evidence. This is not 2006, where people would leave blatant trails of hacking and allow people to find out next week. People downloaded his replays and compared them to suspicious games, and formed their opinion based on those. Taken individually, each might have a reasonable explanation but the aggregate is convincing enough for different people. Progamers have voiced their opinions. Whatever it might be. You are not doing him any good by continuing to argue that there is no hard evidence, because people have different criteria of evaluating evidence, and some folks find the current evidence sufficient. I guess instead of self-victimizig, Spades should rather spend his time explaining the Fog of War discrepancies in his ladder games and the suspicious games. Because that's enough evidence for some people. Your efforts seem futile and pointless to me. No, I don't think you are Spades. I know you are going to reply something along the lines of trying to defend someone until proven guilty, but just realize that he's guilty enough for some, if not most, people given the evidence, his past and etc. If anything, you are making the situation worse by pissing people off who have firmly formed their opinions and who will not be pursuaded by your weak arguments. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here. I think the jury's out on whether Spades hacked. I don't know if he did, and I don't know if he didn't. I just think there are far too many holes that keep cropping up in the case against them for me to conclude that he's hacking. Apparently this really offends some people like JustTray, to the point where they'd actually attack me personally.
For the record, you started the personal attacks. I simply showed how you argued without logic and it made you mad. Others are now telling you the same, and you still refuse to admit it. Everyone is telling you you are doing nothing but harm to the person you are attempting to defend, and you still continue.
You don't refute any of the points made, and you started the cherry picking of my post as one of three options by focusing on me saying you could be spades. Your continued defense does nothing but weaken your already illogical position.
You should stop. You don't have to, but if you were at all intelligent, you would have.
|
On June 06 2012 04:23 SCII-ALI wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 03:19 Spades wrote:
Well after sleeping on it, I still don't really know what to say. But I can say this.
Some pro's have come to me with support, or defended me in this thread. Other pro's have found it necessary to stream to 6k+ people that they have concrete technical evidence I hacked. Which shortly afterward had been proven wrong or inaccurate in this thread. I have done my best with limited knowledge to explain the situations of "suspicious activity". By "done my best" I imply that it is very difficult to accurately depict your exact thought process at these instances in the game, without actually being in that exact given moment playing the game. I made lucky judgement calls based on a lot of prior research. I also made countless terrible calls, resulting in losing some of the games. I think I played very poorly, and was actually quite lucky to have finished 3-4 vs LucifroN. I don't think it was an accurate depiction of how I normally play, but mirror matchups tend to be have a lot of random chance factor in.
I won't be posting here again unless I find it imperative to do so. I have to try and focus on Anaheim, in which I will be participating in WCS and MLG. I have been practicing very hard for these events, and I hope to show how I can really play.
Thanks for all who support me. Spades, you still seem to ignore this question, so i will ask you once more. Why did you not look once into the fog of war in bo7 but seem to look into it all the time on your stream? and games you had sent us
Better yet, why did you say you had already scouted bottom left on Shakuras before scanning top left when the replay shows you clearly hadn't?
Come clean.
This guy is pulling an Orb. He's in denial and making up stories.
|
On June 06 2012 04:23 SCII-ALI wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 03:19 Spades wrote:
Well after sleeping on it, I still don't really know what to say. But I can say this.
Some pro's have come to me with support, or defended me in this thread. Other pro's have found it necessary to stream to 6k+ people that they have concrete technical evidence I hacked. Which shortly afterward had been proven wrong or inaccurate in this thread. I have done my best with limited knowledge to explain the situations of "suspicious activity". By "done my best" I imply that it is very difficult to accurately depict your exact thought process at these instances in the game, without actually being in that exact given moment playing the game. I made lucky judgement calls based on a lot of prior research. I also made countless terrible calls, resulting in losing some of the games. I think I played very poorly, and was actually quite lucky to have finished 3-4 vs LucifroN. I don't think it was an accurate depiction of how I normally play, but mirror matchups tend to be have a lot of random chance factor in.
I won't be posting here again unless I find it imperative to do so. I have to try and focus on Anaheim, in which I will be participating in WCS and MLG. I have been practicing very hard for these events, and I hope to show how I can really play.
Thanks for all who support me. Spades, you still seem to ignore this question, so i will ask you once more. Why did you not look once into the fog of war in bo7 but seem to look into it all the time on your stream? and games you had sent us
This is the question I really want him to address as well.
|
United States10774 Posts
On June 06 2012 04:21 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:19 OneOther wrote:On June 06 2012 04:02 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:59 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:56 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:55 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:52 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:50 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 06 2012 03:42 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:40 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:
[quote]
You don't know what to say? If you weren't hacking, you either don't address the issue at all because there is nothing to address or you do the other extreme and type in all caps THAT YOU ARE INNOCENT AND YOU DIDN'T HACK. Remember. Truth is the ultimate defense. No, instead you try to play the victim and blame the mob mentality. Your defense is laughable in all honesty. You need to either confess or just retire because you are embarrassing yourself. You are a disgrace to this community sorry. Lol. No matter what he says someone is going to take issue with it and use it as evidence (because everyone here suddenly morphs into a psychologist every time there's controversy) of whatever conclusion they want. Yep, ex-teamates and former managers calling him a stream cheater while living with him, numerous pro players and community figures analyzing his games agreeing that he's hacker and cheater, Spades putting up a half ass effort defending himself trying to play the victim,ohhh and he's ALREADY A PROVEN HACKER, people are just drawing whatever conclusion they want right? People are doing exactly that. Axeltoss has made some very convincing analyses that basically make a lot of what Catz said irrelevant. Gix/Artist/Mihai's comments concern something completely different than maphacking. Lots of people streamcheat who don't maphack. Streamcheating is not sufficient to establish maphacking. He was a proven hacker in a different game. He did not hack in Sc2 for a long time (at the very least). That needs to count for something. It doesn't count for anything. If it did, it would only count that its more likely he's a hacker. Once a hacker, always a hacker. You're probably defending him because you are him, are friends with him, or are a hacker yourself. Yeah, clearly I'm Spades. Hope you're being sarcastic. I'm not sure how that refutes my point. Are you one of the teenage children who thinks a legal standard of proof is required for the public to out a video game hacker? Because those people are literally the dumbest ones in this thread. The evidence is there. It's VERY damning. You don't get to dismiss things just because they don't mesh with your preconceived notions. I'm one of the people who thinks you're a moron for implying that I'm affiliated with Spades (or myself a hacker) simply because I don't think there's sufficient evidence, and because you said that "once a hacker, always a hacker." What's your rationale behind spending hours and hours defending him against people's own opinions and judgements? Look, there's not going to be some damning irrefutable evidence. This is not 2006, where people would leave blatant trails of hacking and allow people to find out next week. People downloaded his replays and compared them to suspicious games, and formed their opinion based on those. Taken individually, each might have a reasonable explanation but the aggregate is convincing enough for different people. Progamers have voiced their opinions. Whatever it might be. You are not doing him any good by continuing to argue that there is no hard evidence, because people have different criteria of evaluating evidence, and some folks find the current evidence sufficient. I guess instead of self-victimizig, Spades should rather spend his time explaining the Fog of War discrepancies in his ladder games and the suspicious games. Because that's enough evidence for some people. Your efforts seem futile and pointless to me. No, I don't think you are Spades. I know you are going to reply something along the lines of trying to defend someone until proven guilty, but just realize that he's guilty enough for some, if not most, people given the evidence, his past and etc. If anything, you are making the situation worse by pissing people off who have firmly formed their opinions and who will not be pursuaded by your weak arguments. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here. I think the jury's out on whether Spades hacked. I don't know if he did, and I don't know if he didn't. I just think there are far too many holes that keep cropping up in the case against them for me to conclude that he's hacking. Apparently this really offends some people like JustTray, to the point where they'd actually attack me personally.
I am saying you should stop arguing against people who think the evidence is sufficient, because like I said, they have different standards and evidence of criteria. That evidence will be enough for them until Spades explains the discrepancies. You are asking to be insulted when you keep attempting to tell people they are wrong for thinking that the evidence is sufficient. It's not helping the situation.
|
The analysis from Catz and Co wasn't an analysis; it completely lacked objectivity. They came in there knowing what they wanted to say, and just said it. All we got was another 1-sided opinion, but this time it came from "professionals" so all the forum drones took it as the word of god and it just further fueled this sad excuse for a thread.
|
On June 06 2012 04:24 artanis2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:16 Acritter wrote:On June 06 2012 04:09 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 04:03 Acritter wrote:On June 06 2012 03:59 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:56 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:55 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:52 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:50 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 06 2012 03:42 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
Lol. No matter what he says someone is going to take issue with it and use it as evidence (because everyone here suddenly morphs into a psychologist every time there's controversy) of whatever conclusion they want.
Yep, ex-teamates and former managers calling him a stream cheater while living with him, numerous pro players and community figures analyzing his games agreeing that he's hacker and cheater, Spades putting up a half ass effort defending himself trying to play the victim,ohhh and he's ALREADY A PROVEN HACKER, people are just drawing whatever conclusion they want right? People are doing exactly that. Axeltoss has made some very convincing analyses that basically make a lot of what Catz said irrelevant. Gix/Artist/Mihai's comments concern something completely different than maphacking. Lots of people streamcheat who don't maphack. Streamcheating is not sufficient to establish maphacking. He was a proven hacker in a different game. He did not hack in Sc2 for a long time (at the very least). That needs to count for something. It doesn't count for anything. If it did, it would only count that its more likely he's a hacker. Once a hacker, always a hacker. You're probably defending him because you are him, are friends with him, or are a hacker yourself. Yeah, clearly I'm Spades. Hope you're being sarcastic. I'm not sure how that refutes my point. Are you one of the teenage children who thinks a legal standard of proof is required for the public to out a video game hacker? Because those people are literally the dumbest ones in this thread. The evidence is there. It's VERY damning. You don't get to dismiss things just because they don't mesh with your preconceived notions. The same goes to you. What about the posts from actual hackers that outline the fact that Spades COULD NOT have been using camera lock? Are you just dismissing those? How about the post from that D3 or whatever website that called the people on TeamLiquid idiots and said that Spades wasn't hacking? You're throwing aside input from experts to follow along with your own "preconceived notions". Before anyone can accuse Spades of maphacking, they need to find a hack that he realistically could have been using. As of right now, none have surfaced. If someone can find one, then I will accept that he was most likely maphacking. If nobody can find one, then it is absolutely impossible that he was maphacking. You mean, the notion that admitted Hackers are asserting that there is only one hack, that doesn't allow you to make actions, therefore Spades could not have cheated? Yes, I'm entirely discounting that, because I'm a rational, logical person, not a moron. There ARE more than 1 version of hacks, and any skilled hacker wouldn't bother to use a packaged one, they would customize it. Not saying that's the case, I'm just saying that to believe hackers defending other hackers and for that reason, is literally the dumbest thing you could do. So no, we don't need to find the hack he used. Not at all. That's an unreasonable, and unnecessary level of proof that only a hacker, or the person being accused would ever think is reasonable. Due to this post the entirely of your opinions can be routinely ignored as entirely without merit, logic, or reason. If anything, you only solidify the case that he is 100% a hacker. You do yourself a favor and him if you don't post your fallacies any longer. If it is impossible to replicate the tool used to commit the crime, then there was no crime committed. If, to prove that someone committed a murder, you need a bullet that can pass through a brick wall without leaving a trace, then you can't prove that that person committed the murder. This is really, really simple. If the crime is impossible to recreate, it is scientifically impossible that it happened. Miracles and magic are not acceptable evidence in a court of law. This is trivial to replicate though. The things that you are saying do not exist could have easily been added to the publicly available hack. The fact that he was selecting his hotkeyed units while the camera lock was on does not mean that he was not using a camera lock. The no-selection-while-locked is protection feature so hackers dont accidentally give themselves away, not a requirement of the lock. Disabling that protection means he can lock camera and spam hotkeys while he's looking around the map.
Does he have any experience in programming that could account for him modifying the hack like that?
|
On June 06 2012 04:16 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:09 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 04:03 Acritter wrote:On June 06 2012 03:59 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:56 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:55 JustTray wrote:On June 06 2012 03:52 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:50 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 06 2012 03:42 Shiori wrote:On June 06 2012 03:40 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:
[quote]
You don't know what to say? If you weren't hacking, you either don't address the issue at all because there is nothing to address or you do the other extreme and type in all caps THAT YOU ARE INNOCENT AND YOU DIDN'T HACK. Remember. Truth is the ultimate defense. No, instead you try to play the victim and blame the mob mentality. Your defense is laughable in all honesty. You need to either confess or just retire because you are embarrassing yourself. You are a disgrace to this community sorry. Lol. No matter what he says someone is going to take issue with it and use it as evidence (because everyone here suddenly morphs into a psychologist every time there's controversy) of whatever conclusion they want. Yep, ex-teamates and former managers calling him a stream cheater while living with him, numerous pro players and community figures analyzing his games agreeing that he's hacker and cheater, Spades putting up a half ass effort defending himself trying to play the victim,ohhh and he's ALREADY A PROVEN HACKER, people are just drawing whatever conclusion they want right? People are doing exactly that. Axeltoss has made some very convincing analyses that basically make a lot of what Catz said irrelevant. Gix/Artist/Mihai's comments concern something completely different than maphacking. Lots of people streamcheat who don't maphack. Streamcheating is not sufficient to establish maphacking. He was a proven hacker in a different game. He did not hack in Sc2 for a long time (at the very least). That needs to count for something. It doesn't count for anything. If it did, it would only count that its more likely he's a hacker. Once a hacker, always a hacker. You're probably defending him because you are him, are friends with him, or are a hacker yourself. Yeah, clearly I'm Spades. Hope you're being sarcastic. I'm not sure how that refutes my point. Are you one of the teenage children who thinks a legal standard of proof is required for the public to out a video game hacker? Because those people are literally the dumbest ones in this thread. The evidence is there. It's VERY damning. You don't get to dismiss things just because they don't mesh with your preconceived notions. The same goes to you. What about the posts from actual hackers that outline the fact that Spades COULD NOT have been using camera lock? Are you just dismissing those? How about the post from that D3 or whatever website that called the people on TeamLiquid idiots and said that Spades wasn't hacking? You're throwing aside input from experts to follow along with your own "preconceived notions". Before anyone can accuse Spades of maphacking, they need to find a hack that he realistically could have been using. As of right now, none have surfaced. If someone can find one, then I will accept that he was most likely maphacking. If nobody can find one, then it is absolutely impossible that he was maphacking. You mean, the notion that admitted Hackers are asserting that there is only one hack, that doesn't allow you to make actions, therefore Spades could not have cheated? Yes, I'm entirely discounting that, because I'm a rational, logical person, not a moron. There ARE more than 1 version of hacks, and any skilled hacker wouldn't bother to use a packaged one, they would customize it. Not saying that's the case, I'm just saying that to believe hackers defending other hackers and for that reason, is literally the dumbest thing you could do. So no, we don't need to find the hack he used. Not at all. That's an unreasonable, and unnecessary level of proof that only a hacker, or the person being accused would ever think is reasonable. Due to this post the entirely of your opinions can be routinely ignored as entirely without merit, logic, or reason. If anything, you only solidify the case that he is 100% a hacker. You do yourself a favor and him if you don't post your fallacies any longer. If it is impossible to replicate the tool used to commit the crime, then there was no crime committed. If, to prove that someone committed a murder, you need a bullet that can pass through a brick wall without leaving a trace, then you can't prove that that person committed the murder. This is really, really simple. If the crime is impossible to recreate, it is scientifically impossible that it happened. Miracles and magic are not acceptable evidence in a court of law.
That is not correct. Scott Peterson was convicted largely through circumstantial evidence. There was no murder weapon, witness to the crime or hard evidence that he committed the murder. However, there was overwhelming evidence that he had committed some sort of crime and was acting as if he was attempting to hide a body. The case came down to the argument that there was no other reasonable argument for what he was doing except attempting to hide his wife’s body.
|
some moves that ppl pointed that spades made were very undertandable to me.
some moves were very suspicious too.
i think innocent until proven should stand here like what it says above.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
