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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 05 2012 23:44 LaM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 23:42 Josh111 wrote:On June 05 2012 23:28 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:28 LaM wrote:On June 05 2012 23:25 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:22 phiinix wrote:On June 05 2012 23:12 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:10 Ballack wrote:
Has anyone come up with any explanation to the magic scan on antiga against Lucifron? The one where he is scrolling up, stopping, scanning, etc.. It looks really fishy, and I just cannot believe Spades is innocent anymore, it is just too much of a coincidence. You can't tell on a replay if he's scrolling up, because the replay will only follow his actions, not his camera view. If he scans up top, then the replay will move to that area, because he scanned there, not because his camera was. So the whole "magic scan" argument is 100% irrelevant, because that's not how the replay works. Excuse me? I was under the impression that when you click "player cam" It follows that players camera. Is that seriously not how it works? Please elaborate. No it doesn't, it never does. When you click "player camera" it follows your actions. I.e, if you scan somewhere on the map, the camera will only move to that particular place after you've landed the scan. The camera won't follow the players camera view to the place before he lands the scan. That's how the camera function works. Same goes for unit selection; if you select a unit the camera won't move the selected units (depending on your APM, this has something to do with how many actions are being made in that time interval, so that the camera function knows when to jump and when to not) That's wrong. As posted 4 times already, no. -- > http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=139#2768Axeltoss proving my point. That youtube video does NOT prove your point. Honestly i have watched the video a few times and read your post a few times to try and understand and i still cant figure out. The youtube video does not prove that the replay function doesn't show movement and from what i understand (might be wrong) the replay function DOES show movement not just actions. Exactly lol. This guys whole argument is completely invalid and his only "evidence" is a youtube video that doesn't back him up at all (shows movement, NOT action - exactly what he says the camera doesn't do). I kinda have given up talking to him though, seems very condescending and incredibly misinformed about basic functionality of replays.
Movement =/= action. That's exactly what I say it does. You're deliberating my posts.
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On June 05 2012 23:42 Shiori wrote:
I have no idea why standard people are using to judge hacks here. It's like no matter what action Spades takes, it's being used as an argument for him hacking. Oh, he took too much damage? It was intentionally throwing. Oh, he didn't take any damage? Hacking. Like wtf. There's nothing scientific about this. In order for any analysis (Catz's, or anyone's) to be considered valid, there needs to be an established set of actions that are innocent and an established set that are basically guilty. In Catz's stream, there were numerous instances of blatant hypocrisy, misunderstanding of the camera function, and so on, that make it impossible to view the stream as anything more than someone's uninformed opinion i.e. not a scientific demonstration.
There is always room for error, even when you're using a hack. Therefore, I think the way CatZ/Illu/TT1/Drewbie went about it was fine. You look for the instances where he performs something extraordinarily odd or seemingly impossible, that's where you can pinpoint the use of a hack. Of course Spades is going to make errors, he lost vs Luci using hacks, obviously one player is much more skilled.
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On June 05 2012 23:45 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 23:41 ZenithM wrote:On June 05 2012 23:25 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:23 ZenithM wrote:On June 05 2012 23:12 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:10 Ballack wrote:
Has anyone come up with any explanation to the magic scan on antiga against Lucifron? The one where he is scrolling up, stopping, scanning, etc.. It looks really fishy, and I just cannot believe Spades is innocent anymore, it is just too much of a coincidence. You can't tell on a replay if he's scrolling up, because the replay will only follow his actions, not his camera view. If he scans up top, then the replay will move to that area, because he scanned there, not because his camera was. So the whole "magic scan" argument is 100% irrelevant, because that's not how the replay works. Replays do record camera movement. Your counter-argument is 100% irrelevant. No it doesn't, go check for yourself and come back apologizing. This isn't news. Edit: decided to counter that uneducated "argument" of yours by posting a video of Axeltoss proving my point. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=139#2768 I won't come back apologizing because I obviously checked myself before posting. What you could maybe have said is that it's not 100% perfect recording, but you were acting like the camera info is lost forever in the replay, which it's not. It even records zooming bro. SC2gears displays these "Move screen x=X, y=Y" as "Inactions" Btw, I don't believe either the magic scan argument. Everybody knows that with Blizzard's annoying smoothening of camera view, you can't reliably tell that a player was really looking at what is apparently displaying on the replay. Just wanted to "educate" you (what a ridiculous thing to say btw when you don't even know what replays really contain) a bit. I won't ask you to apologize either, how kind of me. So are you going to keep saying I'm wrong or are you going to present factual proof that can back up your claims? Player camera does not record the camera view from the game, it records the players actions and fog of war. If I move units to x spot, the player camera will look at the selected units and then the destination. In reality, I could be looking at my base, selecting a hotkey and then use the minimap to move my units -- eitherway, the player camera won't show that.
Nope, it records your camera position also. Go test it.......
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Why are you guys arguing who's right or wrong about camera movements, fuck that.
Re-watch the video of Axeltoss, if what Axeltoss says is true then the camera movement is bugged in replays. His second scan was centered off screen while his perspective was to the right of it. Again, if he didn't just scan on the edge of his screen(or through minimap) while facing to the right of the 2nd scan then the camera function is somewhat bugged.
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On June 05 2012 23:45 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 23:41 ZenithM wrote:On June 05 2012 23:25 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:23 ZenithM wrote:On June 05 2012 23:12 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:10 Ballack wrote:
Has anyone come up with any explanation to the magic scan on antiga against Lucifron? The one where he is scrolling up, stopping, scanning, etc.. It looks really fishy, and I just cannot believe Spades is innocent anymore, it is just too much of a coincidence. You can't tell on a replay if he's scrolling up, because the replay will only follow his actions, not his camera view. If he scans up top, then the replay will move to that area, because he scanned there, not because his camera was. So the whole "magic scan" argument is 100% irrelevant, because that's not how the replay works. Replays do record camera movement. Your counter-argument is 100% irrelevant. No it doesn't, go check for yourself and come back apologizing. This isn't news. Edit: decided to counter that uneducated "argument" of yours by posting a video of Axeltoss proving my point. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=139#2768 I won't come back apologizing because I obviously checked myself before posting. What you could maybe have said is that it's not 100% perfect recording, but you were acting like the camera info is lost forever in the replay, which it's not. It even records zooming bro. SC2gears displays these "Move screen x=X, y=Y" as "Inactions" Btw, I don't believe either the magic scan argument. Everybody knows that with Blizzard's annoying smoothening of camera view, you can't reliably tell that a player was really looking at what is apparently displaying on the replay. Just wanted to "educate" you (what a ridiculous thing to say btw when you don't even know what replays really contain) a bit. I won't ask you to apologize either, how kind of me. So are you going to keep saying I'm wrong or are you going to present factual proof that can back up your claims? Player camera does not record the camera view from the game, it records the players actions and fog of war. If I move units to x spot, the player camera will look at the selected units and then the destination. In reality, I could be looking at my base, selecting a hotkey and then use the minimap to move my units -- eitherway, the player camera won't show that.
But this is 100% wrong. It couldn't get wronger. Literally the wrongest thing I've ever read
On June 05 2012 23:48 Andr3 wrote:
Why are you guys arguing who's right or wrong about camera movements, fuck that.
Re-watch the video of Axeltoss, if what Axeltoss says is true then the camera movement is bugged in replays. His second scan was centered off screen while his perspective was to the right of it. Again, if he didn't just scan on the edge of his screen while facing to the right of the 2nd scan then the camera function is somewhat bugged.
He could have scanned via the minimap, it's not definitive proof unless there's a vod of that game (is there?) that shows him scanning via click on the ground
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On June 05 2012 23:47 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 23:42 Shiori wrote:
I have no idea why standard people are using to judge hacks here. It's like no matter what action Spades takes, it's being used as an argument for him hacking. Oh, he took too much damage? It was intentionally throwing. Oh, he didn't take any damage? Hacking. Like wtf. There's nothing scientific about this. In order for any analysis (Catz's, or anyone's) to be considered valid, there needs to be an established set of actions that are innocent and an established set that are basically guilty. In Catz's stream, there were numerous instances of blatant hypocrisy, misunderstanding of the camera function, and so on, that make it impossible to view the stream as anything more than someone's uninformed opinion i.e. not a scientific demonstration. There is always room for error, even when you're using a hack. Therefore, I think the way CatZ/Illu/TT1/Drewbie went about it was fine. You look for the instances where he performs something extraordinarily odd or seemingly impossible, that's where you can pinpoint the use of a hack. Of course Spades is going to make errors, he lost vs Luci using hacks, obviously one player is much more skilled.
You just assumed the conclusion to make your argument....
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I'm yet to see someone explain the scan on shakuras, when he hasn't scouted anywhere.
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This guy is an epic troll :D roflol...
User was warned for this post
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On June 05 2012 23:45 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 23:41 ZenithM wrote:On June 05 2012 23:25 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:23 ZenithM wrote:On June 05 2012 23:12 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:10 Ballack wrote:
Has anyone come up with any explanation to the magic scan on antiga against Lucifron? The one where he is scrolling up, stopping, scanning, etc.. It looks really fishy, and I just cannot believe Spades is innocent anymore, it is just too much of a coincidence. You can't tell on a replay if he's scrolling up, because the replay will only follow his actions, not his camera view. If he scans up top, then the replay will move to that area, because he scanned there, not because his camera was. So the whole "magic scan" argument is 100% irrelevant, because that's not how the replay works. Replays do record camera movement. Your counter-argument is 100% irrelevant. No it doesn't, go check for yourself and come back apologizing. This isn't news. Edit: decided to counter that uneducated "argument" of yours by posting a video of Axeltoss proving my point. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=139#2768 I won't come back apologizing because I obviously checked myself before posting. What you could maybe have said is that it's not 100% perfect recording, but you were acting like the camera info is lost forever in the replay, which it's not. It even records zooming bro. SC2gears displays these "Move screen x=X, y=Y" as "Inactions" Btw, I don't believe either the magic scan argument. Everybody knows that with Blizzard's annoying smoothening of camera view, you can't reliably tell that a player was really looking at what is apparently displaying on the replay. Just wanted to "educate" you (what a ridiculous thing to say btw when you don't even know what replays really contain) a bit. I won't ask you to apologize either, how kind of me. So are you going to keep saying I'm wrong or are you going to present factual proof that can back up your claims? Player camera does not record the camera view from the game, it records the players actions and fog of war. If I move units to x spot, the player camera will look at the selected units and then the destination. In reality, I could be looking at my base, selecting a hotkey and then use the minimap to move my units -- eitherway, the player camera won't show that.
This just is flat out wrong. Again. Stop asking multiple people for proof when you are completely, totally, and without fail wrong on everything you say about the camera function in replays.
You need to go make a game and move around the map. Try all the things you are saying. Then watch the replay. Seriously, stop asking people for proof when your proof is you making things up about hypothetical situations that you are wrong about.
The world isn't out to get you. The ten people repeating that you are wrong aren't part of a conspiracy. You are just wrong.
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On June 05 2012 23:36 desuduesdeus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 23:28 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:28 LaM wrote:On June 05 2012 23:25 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:22 phiinix wrote:On June 05 2012 23:12 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:10 Ballack wrote:
Has anyone come up with any explanation to the magic scan on antiga against Lucifron? The one where he is scrolling up, stopping, scanning, etc.. It looks really fishy, and I just cannot believe Spades is innocent anymore, it is just too much of a coincidence. You can't tell on a replay if he's scrolling up, because the replay will only follow his actions, not his camera view. If he scans up top, then the replay will move to that area, because he scanned there, not because his camera was. So the whole "magic scan" argument is 100% irrelevant, because that's not how the replay works. Excuse me? I was under the impression that when you click "player cam" It follows that players camera. Is that seriously not how it works? Please elaborate. No it doesn't, it never does. When you click "player camera" it follows your actions. I.e, if you scan somewhere on the map, the camera will only move to that particular place after you've landed the scan. The camera won't follow the players camera view to the place before he lands the scan. That's how the camera function works. Same goes for unit selection; if you select a unit the camera won't move the selected units (depending on your APM, this has something to do with how many actions are being made in that time interval, so that the camera function knows when to jump and when to not) That's wrong. As posted 4 times already, no. -- > http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=139#2768Axeltoss proving my point. what are you talking about? Axel's video clearly shows his *camera movement* to the left where he places the scan and back to his army after that. including a full screen view of fog of war. both is missing in the magic scan-occurrences in Spades' replays.
you can scan using the minimap you know...
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On June 05 2012 23:48 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 23:45 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:41 ZenithM wrote:On June 05 2012 23:25 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:23 ZenithM wrote:On June 05 2012 23:12 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:10 Ballack wrote:
Has anyone come up with any explanation to the magic scan on antiga against Lucifron? The one where he is scrolling up, stopping, scanning, etc.. It looks really fishy, and I just cannot believe Spades is innocent anymore, it is just too much of a coincidence. You can't tell on a replay if he's scrolling up, because the replay will only follow his actions, not his camera view. If he scans up top, then the replay will move to that area, because he scanned there, not because his camera was. So the whole "magic scan" argument is 100% irrelevant, because that's not how the replay works. Replays do record camera movement. Your counter-argument is 100% irrelevant. No it doesn't, go check for yourself and come back apologizing. This isn't news. Edit: decided to counter that uneducated "argument" of yours by posting a video of Axeltoss proving my point. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=139#2768 I won't come back apologizing because I obviously checked myself before posting. What you could maybe have said is that it's not 100% perfect recording, but you were acting like the camera info is lost forever in the replay, which it's not. It even records zooming bro. SC2gears displays these "Move screen x=X, y=Y" as "Inactions" Btw, I don't believe either the magic scan argument. Everybody knows that with Blizzard's annoying smoothening of camera view, you can't reliably tell that a player was really looking at what is apparently displaying on the replay. Just wanted to "educate" you (what a ridiculous thing to say btw when you don't even know what replays really contain) a bit. I won't ask you to apologize either, how kind of me. So are you going to keep saying I'm wrong or are you going to present factual proof that can back up your claims? Player camera does not record the camera view from the game, it records the players actions and fog of war. If I move units to x spot, the player camera will look at the selected units and then the destination. In reality, I could be looking at my base, selecting a hotkey and then use the minimap to move my units -- eitherway, the player camera won't show that. But this is 100% wrong. It couldn't get wronger
I take it you're trolling. I just gave you a literal example on how the player camera works, as presented and explained by Axeltoss. He even makes my example very, very clear to everyone.
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If it was just a random GM we'd all already be saying he's blatant... I know this is different but Catz VOD is more than a good proof to me
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On June 05 2012 23:45 papaz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 23:37 Mobsy wrote:On June 05 2012 23:35 i)awn wrote:
I'm not an expert but the logical thing to do is to compare these replays to some other replays where you're certain he's not hacking. Also compare it to a pool of other players' replays and check if you see the same suspicious behavior else where. This has to be done by an unintersted team. What CatZ and Co. Did was fine.. they compared his hacking games to a few of his non-hacking games and told us what made them think he hacks.. afterwards they all were in agreement that he was, in fact, hacking in the showmatch. Does that make it absolute? No. Does it mean he probably was yes? If you can't trust the pros opinions on a subject like this I don't know who we can trust. I'm so glad the justice system doesn't rely on trust. This thread has made me appreciate "innocent until proven guilty" even more.
what do you mean it doesn't rely on trust? @@
police provide a report, the justice system has to trust that the report is accurate
witness gives a testimony, the justice system has to trust on that unless there are strong presence of evidence that the witness might be brided or lying
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On June 05 2012 23:45 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 23:41 ZenithM wrote:On June 05 2012 23:25 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:23 ZenithM wrote:On June 05 2012 23:12 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:10 Ballack wrote:
Has anyone come up with any explanation to the magic scan on antiga against Lucifron? The one where he is scrolling up, stopping, scanning, etc.. It looks really fishy, and I just cannot believe Spades is innocent anymore, it is just too much of a coincidence. You can't tell on a replay if he's scrolling up, because the replay will only follow his actions, not his camera view. If he scans up top, then the replay will move to that area, because he scanned there, not because his camera was. So the whole "magic scan" argument is 100% irrelevant, because that's not how the replay works. Replays do record camera movement. Your counter-argument is 100% irrelevant. No it doesn't, go check for yourself and come back apologizing. This isn't news. Edit: decided to counter that uneducated "argument" of yours by posting a video of Axeltoss proving my point. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=139#2768 I won't come back apologizing because I obviously checked myself before posting. What you could maybe have said is that it's not 100% perfect recording, but you were acting like the camera info is lost forever in the replay, which it's not. It even records zooming bro. SC2gears displays these "Move screen x=X, y=Y" as "Inactions" Btw, I don't believe either the magic scan argument. Everybody knows that with Blizzard's annoying smoothening of camera view, you can't reliably tell that a player was really looking at what is apparently displaying on the replay. Just wanted to "educate" you (what a ridiculous thing to say btw when you don't even know what replays really contain) a bit. I won't ask you to apologize either, how kind of me. So are you going to keep saying I'm wrong or are you going to present factual proof that can back up your claims? Player camera does not record the camera view from the game, it records the players actions and fog of war. If I move units to x spot, the player camera will look at the selected units and then the destination. In reality, I could be looking at my base, selecting a hotkey and then use the minimap to move my units -- eitherway, the player camera won't show that.
What the fuck dude? How could you get something like this wrong? Just open up a freaking replay it's so obvious.. I don't even..
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On June 05 2012 23:42 Shiori wrote:
I have no idea why standard people are using to judge hacks here. It's like no matter what action Spades takes, it's being used as an argument for him hacking. Oh, he took too much damage? It was intentionally throwing. Oh, he didn't take any damage? Hacking. Like wtf. There's nothing scientific about this. In order for any analysis (Catz's, or anyone's) to be considered valid, there needs to be an established set of actions that are innocent and an established set that are basically guilty. In Catz's stream, there were numerous instances of blatant hypocrisy, misunderstanding of the camera function, and so on, that make it impossible to view the stream as anything more than someone's uninformed opinion i.e. not a scientific demonstration.
Yeah, I agree. It is somewhat annoying when correct points and then blatant wrongness are combined in 1 "show".
This entire thread is a show with more wrong than just.
But you got to look at the points where CatZ&Co have a point. And in this thread the decent posts. And check the replays yourself.
Spades hacked these games. Simply true.
Don't invite the guy into any online tournaments. Keep inviting the guy in offline tournaments. When he wins the offline tournaments --> Invite him back into online tournaments and keep an eye on him.
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Someone just post a new YouTube of a replay following the player camera.
Because watching you guys go back and forth literally saying "I'm right because you're wrong." is getting godamned annoying.
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A silly question, but do monitors/aspect ratio have effects on how much you see on your screen? I know for certain that the unit selection always shows 8 per line(24 per page), but do you actually see a bit more to the sides with a wide screen?
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On June 05 2012 23:45 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 23:41 ZenithM wrote:On June 05 2012 23:25 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:23 ZenithM wrote:On June 05 2012 23:12 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:10 Ballack wrote:
Has anyone come up with any explanation to the magic scan on antiga against Lucifron? The one where he is scrolling up, stopping, scanning, etc.. It looks really fishy, and I just cannot believe Spades is innocent anymore, it is just too much of a coincidence. You can't tell on a replay if he's scrolling up, because the replay will only follow his actions, not his camera view. If he scans up top, then the replay will move to that area, because he scanned there, not because his camera was. So the whole "magic scan" argument is 100% irrelevant, because that's not how the replay works. Replays do record camera movement. Your counter-argument is 100% irrelevant. No it doesn't, go check for yourself and come back apologizing. This isn't news. Edit: decided to counter that uneducated "argument" of yours by posting a video of Axeltoss proving my point. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=139#2768 I won't come back apologizing because I obviously checked myself before posting. What you could maybe have said is that it's not 100% perfect recording, but you were acting like the camera info is lost forever in the replay, which it's not. It even records zooming bro. SC2gears displays these "Move screen x=X, y=Y" as "Inactions" Btw, I don't believe either the magic scan argument. Everybody knows that with Blizzard's annoying smoothening of camera view, you can't reliably tell that a player was really looking at what is apparently displaying on the replay. Just wanted to "educate" you (what a ridiculous thing to say btw when you don't even know what replays really contain) a bit. I won't ask you to apologize either, how kind of me. So are you going to keep saying I'm wrong or are you going to present factual proof that can back up your claims? Player camera does not record the camera view from the game, it records the players actions and fog of war. If I move units to x spot, the player camera will look at the selected units and then the destination. In reality, I could be looking at my base, selecting a hotkey and then use the minimap to move my units -- eitherway, the player camera won't show that.
Oh man, again and again, you're wrong. It doesn't work even remotely like that...
Think a bit, you can move your units with your minimap while still watching your base, the replay will show exactly just that: you looking at your base and nothing more. The only way you can tell a player moved his units that way is with his selections (and obviously movements of his units). The camera will NOT follow the units. You must have played too many 1v1 Obs with Auto-cam or something...
Edit: Good job trolling us all btw...
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On June 05 2012 23:49 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 23:48 floor exercise wrote:On June 05 2012 23:45 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:41 ZenithM wrote:On June 05 2012 23:25 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:23 ZenithM wrote:On June 05 2012 23:12 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:10 Ballack wrote:
Has anyone come up with any explanation to the magic scan on antiga against Lucifron? The one where he is scrolling up, stopping, scanning, etc.. It looks really fishy, and I just cannot believe Spades is innocent anymore, it is just too much of a coincidence. You can't tell on a replay if he's scrolling up, because the replay will only follow his actions, not his camera view. If he scans up top, then the replay will move to that area, because he scanned there, not because his camera was. So the whole "magic scan" argument is 100% irrelevant, because that's not how the replay works. Replays do record camera movement. Your counter-argument is 100% irrelevant. No it doesn't, go check for yourself and come back apologizing. This isn't news. Edit: decided to counter that uneducated "argument" of yours by posting a video of Axeltoss proving my point. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=139#2768 I won't come back apologizing because I obviously checked myself before posting. What you could maybe have said is that it's not 100% perfect recording, but you were acting like the camera info is lost forever in the replay, which it's not. It even records zooming bro. SC2gears displays these "Move screen x=X, y=Y" as "Inactions" Btw, I don't believe either the magic scan argument. Everybody knows that with Blizzard's annoying smoothening of camera view, you can't reliably tell that a player was really looking at what is apparently displaying on the replay. Just wanted to "educate" you (what a ridiculous thing to say btw when you don't even know what replays really contain) a bit. I won't ask you to apologize either, how kind of me. So are you going to keep saying I'm wrong or are you going to present factual proof that can back up your claims? Player camera does not record the camera view from the game, it records the players actions and fog of war. If I move units to x spot, the player camera will look at the selected units and then the destination. In reality, I could be looking at my base, selecting a hotkey and then use the minimap to move my units -- eitherway, the player camera won't show that. But this is 100% wrong. It couldn't get wronger I take it you're trolling. I just gave you a literal example on how the player camera works, as presented and explained by Axeltoss. He even makes my example very, very clear to everyone.
You've demonstrated you have zero understanding of how SC2 replays work, why are you still in this thread? This is an obscene level of ignorance
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On June 05 2012 23:40 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 23:38 IshinShishi wrote:On June 05 2012 23:34 floor exercise wrote:On June 05 2012 23:30 IshinShishi wrote:On June 05 2012 23:21 floor exercise wrote:On June 05 2012 23:20 Pantythief wrote:On June 05 2012 23:19 floor exercise wrote:On June 05 2012 23:16 IshinShishi wrote:On June 05 2012 23:14 floor exercise wrote:On June 05 2012 23:10 Pantythief wrote:
[quote]
Sadly the generic explanation to that is "well, herp derp, he's just making it look like he's not hacking!!" No, it would be something along the line of "using a maphack doesn't imply you will make consistently correct decisions" Spades among many others have been caught map hacking before, and they never played perfect games despite having the significant information advantage afforded to them by hacks. It's as absurd a defense as "look how bad he performs in lan" is as evidence to the contrary Not really, this has nothing to do with decision making, a huge blob going through your minimap to ravage your third would take a guy with 30 apm and I.Q 44 to not notice it. So he would be absolutely stupid to not notice it with a hack, what would that make him if he responded to it? What IQ would be required to realize in that moment how fishy it would look? 46? 47? You really shouldn't be talking about IQ levels, when your main argument is "well, it's fishy" Isn't that your argument? "He's not hacking because he didn't perform an incredibly clearly fishy action in this particular circumstance" is that not the basis of this argument about that one attack in the game? Who shouldn't be talking about IQ again? On June 05 2012 23:21 IshinShishi wrote:On June 05 2012 23:19 floor exercise wrote:On June 05 2012 23:16 IshinShishi wrote:On June 05 2012 23:14 floor exercise wrote:On June 05 2012 23:10 Pantythief wrote:
[quote]
Sadly the generic explanation to that is "well, herp derp, he's just making it look like he's not hacking!!" No, it would be something along the line of "using a maphack doesn't imply you will make consistently correct decisions" Spades among many others have been caught map hacking before, and they never played perfect games despite having the significant information advantage afforded to them by hacks. It's as absurd a defense as "look how bad he performs in lan" is as evidence to the contrary Not really, this has nothing to do with decision making, a huge blob going through your minimap to ravage your third would take a guy with 30 apm and I.Q 44 to not notice it. So he would be absolutely stupid to not notice it with a hack, what would that make him if he responded to it? What IQ would be required to realize in that moment how fishy it would look? 46? 47? Wouldn't look fishy at all, at that point pretty much all his income came from his third, everyone should expect an attack there. So he wouldn't need a hack to blindly counter that attack, but he doesn't hack because he didn't blindly counter that attack This defense is getting less and less logical as time progresses ?Seems pretty logically flawless.The fact that he didn't defend his third should be attributed to simply bad play, point being, anyone with a hack would've seen a huge blob and defended it properly (and no one should call it fishy because defending your only source of income should be an obvious move), essentially, not doing it means not hacking, doing it doesn't mean anything in that particular instance. Apparently it's a really obvious attack so he could justifiably defend it without being called a hacker but you are using it as proof that he isn't hacking. That makes absolutely no sense at all. So in an alternate reality where he did defend it, you would be here saying that he just did the obvious thing and that it's not proof. How can you turn around and claim that it's evidence that he doesn't hack. Are you trying to make my brain explode with your self contradictions because we're seriously getting there. This whole line of reasoning makes no sense, especially when you consider that no one is using that attack as proof of him hacking. Meanwhile you're simultaneously showing how it is proof of both hacks and the absence of hacks. This is some Wookies on Endor type shit. Not the proof of hacks, but the absence of it, I'm sure you are pretty much the only one failing to grasp the logic behind it really. You have literally illustrated a scenario where someone could both defend and ignore that attack while either hacking or not hacking You've proven that that attack means nothing in the ultimate determination of whether Spades cheats. That is a complete and utter contradiction when you are using it as proof that he does not cheat in any games.
You should read the whole post again, I'm tired of saying the same stuff over and over. Defending that attack doesn't mean anything, not doing it means that he didn't see a huge blob through his minimap, and that would take a total retard, especially considering the probability of an attack coming through to his third, at that point he wasn't maphacking, at all. Whether he did it or not in other parts of the showmatch is debatable and I did not take this into account when I made my first post, he most surely could use his hack only through certain periods of time, just in some games or in some other way, he is doing this for a living after all.
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