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On May 13 2012 18:22 Tyree wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 11:21 riff wrote:
Flash is the best RTS player of all time. I'd take his snap balance judgement over some mediocre pro's any day. It's laughable that people are saying he's just a noob and doesn't know what he's talking about. Ugh, people are just reciting what everyone else is saying, without watching other people who dominated the game before. That Flash is the undisputed best BW player of all time, give me a break. iloveoov in his prime was a far more impressive player that i would argue faced far bigger competition than Flash did. I am glad he is playing SC2, but the absolute cold water in your face when you realize he isent some god will be funny to witness
Count how many finals flash was in in (and won) a shorter period of time than oov.
If you wanna dismiss his dominance, then please show me how oov got a 2443 elo peak, thank you.
Maybe flash won't dominate sc2 half as hard, maybe not at all, who knows.
Fact is; he was the best in BW, just as JD wouldve been if not for Flash
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On May 13 2012 22:12 Euronyme wrote:
I'm kind of disappointed that Flash's so early to jump on the balance bandwagon..
Has whining in public ever been productive?
It's like a football player whining about his team being bad and how every other team is better than his team and how he hopes management gets his team mates better.
Just pathetic.
Edit. I recall day9, incontrol and nony talking about BW players discussing maps rather than race balance, and how that was something to lean in SC2. It seems like they were wrong and we're in for a whole new wave of imba cries.
Your thinking of it wrong. Since SC2 is still being patched its basically a meta-tactic. Say "X" is imbalanced, get community hyped up about it, and up your chance of winning once the patch to fix the issue comes in.
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On May 13 2012 22:25 zawk9 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 22:12 Euronyme wrote:
I'm kind of disappointed that Flash's so early to jump on the balance bandwagon..
Has whining in public ever been productive?
It's like a football player whining about his team being bad and how every other team is better than his team and how he hopes management gets his team mates better.
Just pathetic.
Edit. I recall day9, incontrol and nony talking about BW players discussing maps rather than race balance, and how that was something to lean in SC2. It seems like they were wrong and we're in for a whole new wave of imba cries. Your thinking of it wrong. Since SC2 is still being patched its basically a meta-tactic. Say "X" is imbalanced, get community hyped up about it, and up your chance of winning once the patch to fix the issue comes in.
Blizzard isn't that stupid. I mean, they make really stupid changes, even a lot of changes that benefit me have been stupid. But they don't balance the game around the word of a new player.
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On May 13 2012 22:18 Vildhjarta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 22:12 Euronyme wrote:
I'm kind of disappointed that Flash's so early to jump on the balance bandwagon..
Has whining in public ever been productive?
It's like a football player whining about his team being bad and how every other team is better than his team and how he hopes management gets his team mates better.
Just pathetic. OMG why is everyone so touchy? EVERYONE need to express their oh so vaulueable opinions. IT'S AN OUT RAGE!!! No it's not. he's new to the game and at first things might seem way off.. ESPECIALLY when you come from a PRO BW scene. But no you don't take 2 seconds to think about that before you spill your precious important insight on what an outrage this is. YOU personify exactly what I hate about TL and about this scene. YOU are killing esports for me. Stop it.
Just a side note. People seem to think that just because they caps every other word they seem more right. Stop it. It just makes you illiterate.
What I'm saying is that I dislike whining for whining's sake. It's pointless to complain - yet so many pros seem compelled to do so in public.
I never said that it was an outrage. I said that I dislike it and that it's unprofessional.
You seem to have a pretty fucked up view of what esports is if you think less whining would kill it.
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this shows what a fail protoss is gamedesign wise. too much to abuse and too many abilities that get extreamly powerful by taking a huge risk, so that games vP often get decided by just 1 action in favour or against toss. i just remember MVP vs naniwa or parting, both tosses going for extream risks and every game just ends after 1 conflict. the game mvp didnt decided to allin he just got rolled over. ofc u have to consider parting didnt play at his top and mvp most likely havnt practiced alot of lategame cuz of his hand injury, but still i feel like alot of the vP matchups ends like this, even pvp.
i know its no balance thread but i think its very bad that a 2years old game doesnt convince players thats its good balanced, maybe its stats wise, but i guess gamedesign wise its still lackin alot
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On May 13 2012 22:27 ChriseC wrote:
this shows what a fail protoss is gamedesign wise. too much to abuse and too many abilities that get extreamly powerful by taking a huge risk, so that games vP often get decided by just 1 action in favour or against toss. i just remember MVP vs naniwa or parting, both tosses going for extream risks and every game just ends after 1 conflict. the game mvp didnt decided to allin he just got rolled over. ofc u have to consider parting didnt play at his top and mvp most likely havnt practiced alot of lategame cuz of his hand injury, but still i feel like alot of the vP matchups ends like this, even pvp.
i know its no balance thread but i think its very bad that a 2years old game doesnt convince players thats its good balanced, maybe its stats wise, but i guess gamedesign wise its still lackin alot
An interview with a new player who still doesn't grasp the fundamentals of the game does not overturn the current metagame and balance trends. Please stop believing that Flash's word is the word. Time to wake up Dorothy, you're not in Brood War anymore.
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i think some people are too serious, to me at least it sounds as if he is half joking and still in the progress of adapting.
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On May 13 2012 22:27 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 22:25 zawk9 wrote:On May 13 2012 22:12 Euronyme wrote:
I'm kind of disappointed that Flash's so early to jump on the balance bandwagon..
Has whining in public ever been productive?
It's like a football player whining about his team being bad and how every other team is better than his team and how he hopes management gets his team mates better.
Just pathetic.
Edit. I recall day9, incontrol and nony talking about BW players discussing maps rather than race balance, and how that was something to lean in SC2. It seems like they were wrong and we're in for a whole new wave of imba cries. Your thinking of it wrong. Since SC2 is still being patched its basically a meta-tactic. Say "X" is imbalanced, get community hyped up about it, and up your chance of winning once the patch to fix the issue comes in. Blizzard isn't that stupid. I mean, they make really stupid changes, even a lot of changes that benefit me have been stupid. But they don't balance the game around the word of a new player.
Now your putting words in my mouth. I never said Blizzard would fall for it or that his word was specifically the thing that counted.
The (potential) strength is in that it helps (to some extent) get the community up in arms not in who said the words themselves. Its probably not a conscience strategy, I was actually mostly joking about the whole going meta aspect, but worst case scenario you create a mini-issue and add a lot of whining strength about the current state of TvP. Why not do it?
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On May 13 2012 22:34 zawk9 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 22:27 Chargelot wrote:On May 13 2012 22:25 zawk9 wrote:On May 13 2012 22:12 Euronyme wrote:
I'm kind of disappointed that Flash's so early to jump on the balance bandwagon..
Has whining in public ever been productive?
It's like a football player whining about his team being bad and how every other team is better than his team and how he hopes management gets his team mates better.
Just pathetic.
Edit. I recall day9, incontrol and nony talking about BW players discussing maps rather than race balance, and how that was something to lean in SC2. It seems like they were wrong and we're in for a whole new wave of imba cries. Your thinking of it wrong. Since SC2 is still being patched its basically a meta-tactic. Say "X" is imbalanced, get community hyped up about it, and up your chance of winning once the patch to fix the issue comes in. Blizzard isn't that stupid. I mean, they make really stupid changes, even a lot of changes that benefit me have been stupid. But they don't balance the game around the word of a new player. Now your putting words in my mouth. I never said Blizzard would fall for it or that his word was specifically the thing that counted. The (potential) strength is in that it helps (to some extent) get the community up in arms not in who said the words themselves. Its probably not a conscience strategy, I was actually mostly joking about the whole going meta aspect, but worst case scenario you create a mini-issue and add a lot of whining strength about the current state of TvP. Why not do it?
Haha if Blizzard listened to the community the mini-issue would indeed help shift the game. But it's never really worked for anyone else. I don't think it will work for Flash.
And don't take what I was saying too hard. I was being light-hearted about it.
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On May 13 2012 22:39 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 22:34 zawk9 wrote:On May 13 2012 22:27 Chargelot wrote:On May 13 2012 22:25 zawk9 wrote:On May 13 2012 22:12 Euronyme wrote:
I'm kind of disappointed that Flash's so early to jump on the balance bandwagon..
Has whining in public ever been productive?
It's like a football player whining about his team being bad and how every other team is better than his team and how he hopes management gets his team mates better.
Just pathetic.
Edit. I recall day9, incontrol and nony talking about BW players discussing maps rather than race balance, and how that was something to lean in SC2. It seems like they were wrong and we're in for a whole new wave of imba cries. Your thinking of it wrong. Since SC2 is still being patched its basically a meta-tactic. Say "X" is imbalanced, get community hyped up about it, and up your chance of winning once the patch to fix the issue comes in. Blizzard isn't that stupid. I mean, they make really stupid changes, even a lot of changes that benefit me have been stupid. But they don't balance the game around the word of a new player. Now your putting words in my mouth. I never said Blizzard would fall for it or that his word was specifically the thing that counted. The (potential) strength is in that it helps (to some extent) get the community up in arms not in who said the words themselves. Its probably not a conscience strategy, I was actually mostly joking about the whole going meta aspect, but worst case scenario you create a mini-issue and add a lot of whining strength about the current state of TvP. Why not do it? Haha if Blizzard listened to the community the mini-issue would indeed help shift the game. But it's never really worked for anyone else. I don't think it will work for Flash. And don't take what I was saying too hard. I was being light-hearted about it.
Same here. Sorry if I misunderstood anything or came off as unduly abrasive. Its very early here (pacific time) so it might be the lack of coffee.
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On May 13 2012 22:27 ChriseC wrote:
this shows what a fail protoss is gamedesign wise. too much to abuse and too many abilities that get extreamly powerful by taking a huge risk, so that games vP often get decided by just 1 action in favour or against toss. i just remember MVP vs naniwa or parting, both tosses going for extream risks and every game just ends after 1 conflict. the game mvp didnt decided to allin he just got rolled over. ofc u have to consider parting didnt play at his top and mvp most likely havnt practiced alot of lategame cuz of his hand injury, but still i feel like alot of the vP matchups ends like this, even pvp.
i know its no balance thread but i think its very bad that a 2years old game doesnt convince players thats its good balanced, maybe its stats wise, but i guess gamedesign wise its still lackin alot
The guy just started playing, of course he's gonna feel that FFs and warpgates are weird since there wasn't anything like that in BW. He just has to approach TvP in a different way than he did in BW, like everyone else.
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On May 12 2012 02:30 ch33psh33p wrote:
This makes me really sad.
Its just like MVP said, running two games in parallel, no matter how much you want to see Flash play SC2, is going to cause a deterioriation of skill in both games.
although that is true, I think kespa doesn't have a choice.
what they are trying is to bring SC2 closer to BW fans and in a way convert them over the course of the season.
considering that this would be what everyone is waiting for it might afterall be the right decision for kespa. although it means we will have to wait a good while longer until we will see BW pros catch up.
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On May 12 2012 02:23 WarrickHunt wrote:
Swap to zerg, for the love of god please
Have to agree; for the love of god we need more zerg heros... DAMN you HerO(P) <- hes so good.
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On May 13 2012 22:12 Euronyme wrote:
I'm kind of disappointed that Flash's so early to jump on the balance bandwagon..
Has whining in public ever been productive?
It's like a football player whining about his team being bad and how every other team is better than his team and how he hopes management gets his team mates better.
Just pathetic.
Edit. I recall day9, incontrol and nony talking about BW players discussing maps rather than race balance, and how that was something to lean in SC2. It seems like they were wrong and we're in for a whole new wave of imba cries.
Yes thats because BW is balanced and is probably THE most balanced competitive game ever made.
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On May 13 2012 22:23 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 18:22 Tyree wrote:On May 13 2012 11:21 riff wrote:
Flash is the best RTS player of all time. I'd take his snap balance judgement over some mediocre pro's any day. It's laughable that people are saying he's just a noob and doesn't know what he's talking about. Ugh, people are just reciting what everyone else is saying, without watching other people who dominated the game before. That Flash is the undisputed best BW player of all time, give me a break. iloveoov in his prime was a far more impressive player that i would argue faced far bigger competition than Flash did. I am glad he is playing SC2, but the absolute cold water in your face when you realize he isent some god will be funny to witness Count how many finals flash was in in (and won) a shorter period of time than oov. If you wanna dismiss his dominance, then please show me how oov got a 2443 elo peak, thank you. Maybe flash won't dominate sc2 half as hard, maybe not at all, who knows. Fact is; he was the best in BW, just as JD wouldve been if not for Flash
It's all relative. I don't know why guys still try to compare different eras either. So frigging different.
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On May 14 2012 00:59 For_The_Dream wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 22:12 Euronyme wrote:
I'm kind of disappointed that Flash's so early to jump on the balance bandwagon..
Has whining in public ever been productive?
It's like a football player whining about his team being bad and how every other team is better than his team and how he hopes management gets his team mates better.
Just pathetic.
Edit. I recall day9, incontrol and nony talking about BW players discussing maps rather than race balance, and how that was something to lean in SC2. It seems like they were wrong and we're in for a whole new wave of imba cries. Yes thats because BW is balanced and is probably THE most balanced competitive game ever made.
I wouldn't call that whine per say. The guy was asked for his early thoughts about a game he's barely played. Ask him a few months from now and I bet his views won't necessarily be the same.
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On May 13 2012 22:12 Euronyme wrote:
I'm kind of disappointed that Flash's so early to jump on the balance bandwagon..
Has whining in public ever been productive?
It's like a football player whining about his team being bad and how every other team is better than his team and how he hopes management gets his team mates better.
Just pathetic.
Edit. I recall day9, incontrol and nony talking about BW players discussing maps rather than race balance, and how that was something to lean in SC2. It seems like they were wrong and we're in for a whole new wave of imba cries.
Zerg and Toss cried their little eyes out during all of 2011 and see what it brought them: Ghosts-nerfs en masse + no buffs for T in the last 4 patches. Blizzard just shows that whining is encouraged.
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On May 14 2012 01:32 Greenei wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 22:12 Euronyme wrote:
I'm kind of disappointed that Flash's so early to jump on the balance bandwagon..
Has whining in public ever been productive?
It's like a football player whining about his team being bad and how every other team is better than his team and how he hopes management gets his team mates better.
Just pathetic.
Edit. I recall day9, incontrol and nony talking about BW players discussing maps rather than race balance, and how that was something to lean in SC2. It seems like they were wrong and we're in for a whole new wave of imba cries. Zerg and Toss cried their little eyes out during all of 2011 and see what it brought them: Ghosts-nerfs en masse + no buffs for T in the last 4 patches. Blizzard just shows that whining is encouraged.
Not even just no buffs for T in the last four patches, more like at least 1 nerf on average since release.
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Hey guys, consider this when Flash talks about balance:
He's been playing a game that hasn't seen a balance change in as long as he's been playing it professionally.
Now he can actually complain about balance- and to top it off someone, nay it seems EVERYONE, will both listen and agree with him.
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On May 14 2012 01:39 Durp wrote:
Hey guys, consider this when Flash talks about balance:
He's been playing a game that hasn't seen a balance change in as long as he's been playing it professionally.
Now he can actually complain about balance- and to top it off someone, nay it seems EVERYONE, will both listen and agree with him.
No. Not everyone agrees that everything not Terran is overpowered. The assorted BW player whose only experience with SC2 has been to bash it agrees with him. There is a major difference. "Forcefields are OP, gateways are OP" were things we heard back in beta. There isn't this sudden onslaught of professional players and game designers claiming these things are actually overpowered because Flash said so. Hell, he didn't even give a reason.
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EPT
