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Interview with Flash about SC2 - Page 26

Forum Index > SC2 General
1275 CommentsPost a Reply
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roym899
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany426 Posts
May 11 2012 21:42 GMT
#501
I really can't take this part about imbalance serious. What is his problem? Does he wanna force Blizzard to buff his race that the race which is already doing by far best in pro play since the release of the game gets even better? This is really rediculous. The fact he says Protoss is the strongest, then Zerg and then Terran is just the complete opposite then the results in pro play show. Protoss is doing better right now but both Zerg and Protoss struggled since the release. Only Terran can win constantly it seems like. The fact that so many BW pros switch away from Zerg shows that it isn't Zerg which is OP...
algue
Profile Joined July 2011
France1436 Posts
May 11 2012 21:42 GMT
#502
I don't understand why people are arguing.
Everyone knows protoss is OP , Flash just confirmed it.
rly ?
Andre
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Slovenia3523 Posts
May 11 2012 21:43 GMT
#503
So protoss is imba because Flash says so. The amount of championships taken by the so called imba toss and the statistics support his claim.

...

Just because he's Flash doesn't mean he's right, it's SC2 after all not BW.
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
May 11 2012 21:44 GMT
#504
Protoss is overpowered so I hope they balance it out.
LOL xD terra has most wins and even this season will mvp win and again a p is to strong talk ...
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
May 11 2012 21:44 GMT
#505
If there's one single persons opinion I'd put over all others, despite having less experience with the game, it's fucking Lee Young Ho's.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
rEalGuapo
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany832 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-11 21:44:36
May 11 2012 21:44 GMT
#506
On May 12 2012 06:42 S_SienZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2012 06:39 testthewest wrote:
On May 12 2012 06:29 RazorHedge wrote:
On May 12 2012 06:21 rEalGuapo wrote:
On May 12 2012 06:18 Skaminator wrote:
On May 12 2012 06:09 rEalGuapo wrote:
On May 12 2012 06:07 beg wrote:
On May 12 2012 06:05 Bayyne wrote:
On May 12 2012 06:04 beg wrote:
On May 12 2012 05:56 rEalGuapo wrote:
[quote]


He said that Colossus tech is cheap compared to the Vikings you had to get.

He stated that for 2 Colossi you need about 8 Vikings and that eats too much into your Bio.


8 Vikings = 600 Gas.
2 Colossi = 800 Gas, yeah so cheap.... you obviously need the range upgrade, or you will not force Vikings.

After I heard him say that 2 Colossi cost less Gas then 6-8 Vikings I shut down the stream in anger.

So I could not care less about his opinion, that is like IdrA saying Vortex is imbalanced while he INTENTIONALLY moves his entire army into one only to prove his point instead of having spread his units in the first place.


collossi cost 300/200 though. sorry, but lol.


He's factoring in the Thermal Lance upgrade.

it's 200 200, so 2 collossi with thermal lance still arent 800.



I love your ignorance you still need the robotics bay. Guess the Gas cost, Guess it.

Or do you think every Protoss has it anyway because of the Obvserver upgrades?
Well then Observers are pretty freaking expensive for the fact that every decent player can see them and kill them with one scan.


1 Broodlord 850 gas yes?



completely out of context. He was talking about a very specific example, 2 Colossi vs Bio/Vikings which actually is a pretty common situation.



I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything here,just trying to understand, but unless you're 4-gating it's pretty safe to assume EVERY protoss gets at least 1 robo, so you can substract that to the equation.

Also, if the Viking/Colossus Ratio is 4 to 1. That requires 2 reactored starports te let's say.. have "equivalent" production. Not completely necessary though. But if you are constantly producing Colos, 2 SP comes by default. You are also forgetting +1 air attack, (At least, and it does count since you are considering thermal lance)

So, again, not trying to pick a fight, but I do think the argument to analyze here is a different one, since we can safely assume the costs for that tech are pretty much alike. Is how cost effective are the units for that cost?

My pick goes for the colos.

P.S: I'm just stating simple scenarios and using basic math, not implying OPness or w/e.


Why do you need 2 Starports? Isn't Viking build time 42s and colossus 75 sec? so one reactored starport is already enough to get to a ratio of 1:3,5.
2 Starports will get you to 1:7 ratio (collossus /viking).
+1 air attack is absolute unnessecary to fight 2 colossus, while thermal lance is absolute nessecary to even force viking. Otherwise the Marauders kill a colossus in 2 volleys (=stimmed marauders =2sec)

Because there's no large pop up saying "I'm making Colossi".

If T goes blind air and P goes HT T loses. Also, if you only have 1 Starport you won't be able to keep up Medivac production. And saying that T can't protect their Medivacs is a bit unfair considering after a certain point HTs one shot them.



Well if Terrran, that can always drop and scout this way or just Scan BLINDLY switches to Vikings I would not consider his opinion on Balance, Strategy or anything revolving around Starcraft 2 relevant.
ppshchik
Profile Joined September 2010
United States862 Posts
May 11 2012 21:44 GMT
#507
I just think Terrans don't have any end game advantage vs toss. Toss has kept its AoE from SC1 whilst Terran mech is nerfed (tanks do less damage / cost more food, and toss have blink to bulldog the tanks). Bio will always only be a timing strategy before tosses get their AoE.
Legends never die... they end up working in McDonalds.
dragonborn
Profile Joined January 2012
4781 Posts
May 11 2012 21:45 GMT
#508
the whine rate in this thread is too damn high.
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
May 11 2012 21:45 GMT
#509
how can terran win everything and call themself worst
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
lordofsoup
Profile Joined January 2012
United States159 Posts
May 11 2012 21:45 GMT
#510
I can understand Flash's issue with warpgate. The Instant units makes it unbelievable strong late game. If that is fixed, and toss is given an early game buff, everything would be fine.
NOHUNTERS
FidoDido
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1292 Posts
May 11 2012 21:45 GMT
#511
God said "protoss is overpowered"
Blizzard continues to Buff protoss.
LGIMSeed FantasyToss~~ Hipster Seed fan before he made Code A
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
May 11 2012 21:46 GMT
#512
Well, Protoss huh? They needed faster observers though.
ShaneFeit
Profile Joined August 2011
92 Posts
May 11 2012 21:46 GMT
#513
Every top terran has brought up the issue of Protoss being too strong in the late game. Why are people complaining that Flash brought it up? I hope someone can compile some statistics of win rates in late game TvP.

A game is not balanced when Terrans are sitting on a time bomb, which Blizzard apparently thinks is ok according to their latest statements and patches.
rEalGuapo
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany832 Posts
May 11 2012 21:47 GMT
#514
On May 12 2012 06:45 FidoDido wrote:
God said "protoss is overpowered"
Blizzard continues to Buff protoss.


Because a god of BW is not instantly fit for commenting on the Balance of Command and Conquer.
Or SC II
Or any other game except BW.
BrandFilt
Profile Joined April 2009
Sweden57 Posts
May 11 2012 21:47 GMT
#515
On May 12 2012 06:06 rEalGuapo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2012 06:04 beg wrote:
On May 12 2012 05:56 rEalGuapo wrote:
On May 12 2012 05:46 Tippecanoe wrote:
On May 12 2012 05:23 HolyArrow wrote:
There's one thing I have to say about people who are going, "Lol, Flash thinks Protoss is OP, it must be true".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias


Implying hes the only pro to say that protoss was a bit too strong. Demuslim talked about it on his stream for about 5-10 minutes or so and he had really good points with real evidence.



He said that Colossus tech is cheap compared to the Vikings you had to get.

He stated that for 2 Colossi you need about 8 Vikings and that eats too much into your Bio.


8 Vikings = 600 Gas.
2 Colossi = 800 Gas, yeah so cheap.... you obviously need the range upgrade, or you will not force Vikings.

After I heard him say that 2 Colossi cost less Gas then 6-8 Vikings I shut down the stream in anger.

So I could not care less about his opinion, that is like IdrA saying Vortex is imbalanced while he INTENTIONALLY moves his entire army into one only to prove his point instead of having spread his units in the first place.


collossi cost 300/200 though. sorry, but lol.


yes but you need robbotics bay and the range upgrade 200 gas each, I do not count the starport that you have anyway same as Robo itself
sorry but think.


Wow, really terrible logic. Have you even considered that vikings need seperate upgrades? Can you even comprehend how much it will cost to get my vikings to 3-3 so they can go up against your 3-3 army? I can't, so I just have to do with 3-0 vikings to fight an army with 3 attack and 3 armor. Now how's that for fair? I think Protoss have the better end whatever a robotics bay and/or what thermal lance costs.

A collosi switch can only be benefitial since: 1. Vikings suck. Period. They don't share upgrades with your main army and they are no good in a stratight up fight except for dealing with collosi. 2. They take up your starport so you can't make medivacs. 3. It will kill you if you are not prepared or at the very least cripple you.

I can't see why a protoss would not go collosi but I can see several reason why Terran really wouldn't want to get vikings if it weren't for the fact that we are forced to make them in order to survive the ultimate 1-a unit.
FidoDido
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1292 Posts
May 11 2012 21:47 GMT
#516
On May 12 2012 06:47 rEalGuapo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2012 06:45 FidoDido wrote:
God said "protoss is overpowered"
Blizzard continues to Buff protoss.


Because a god of BW is not instantly fit for commenting on the Balance of Command and Conquer.
Or SC II
Or any other game except BW.


Blasphemy!
at least Jinro can sleep easy now.
LGIMSeed FantasyToss~~ Hipster Seed fan before he made Code A
testthewest
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany274 Posts
May 11 2012 21:48 GMT
#517
On May 12 2012 06:38 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2012 06:30 testthewest wrote:
Somewhat funny:
He says: "I'm a noob!" (perhaps by progamer standarts)
But then whines about balance, it would make Idra pale...


Flash is VERY humble. 14-0 win streaks in tournament matches is him being "noob".

Additionally it's not "whine". It's an interview, and was he asked those questions.


I know he is a champion. But I used HIS WORDS. He feels like a noob in SC2. Just read his first answer (ffs)!!
The interviewer only asked about balance, as Flash used the first opportunity to whine (a very open question 3 "What are some difficulties for you?")

For somebody that hasn't watched any VoDs (stated in Interview, read before you hate on me for that), for somebody that doesn't even know what foreign tournament exist, that's quite a bold statement.
Sure he is honest, if he knew how much terran is dominating SC2 he would say such things.

Or just switch to toss, flash! We haven't had a toss champion for over a year in the GSL, we could use your help!
Show us your protoss imbalance!
War is not about who is right, but who is left.
Eee
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden2712 Posts
May 11 2012 21:49 GMT
#518
On May 12 2012 06:30 Skaminator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2012 06:20 Roxor9999 wrote:
On May 12 2012 06:15 beg wrote:
On May 12 2012 06:09 rEalGuapo wrote:
On May 12 2012 06:07 beg wrote:
On May 12 2012 06:05 Bayyne wrote:
On May 12 2012 06:04 beg wrote:
On May 12 2012 05:56 rEalGuapo wrote:
On May 12 2012 05:46 Tippecanoe wrote:
On May 12 2012 05:23 HolyArrow wrote:
There's one thing I have to say about people who are going, "Lol, Flash thinks Protoss is OP, it must be true".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias


Implying hes the only pro to say that protoss was a bit too strong. Demuslim talked about it on his stream for about 5-10 minutes or so and he had really good points with real evidence.



He said that Colossus tech is cheap compared to the Vikings you had to get.

He stated that for 2 Colossi you need about 8 Vikings and that eats too much into your Bio.


8 Vikings = 600 Gas.
2 Colossi = 800 Gas, yeah so cheap.... you obviously need the range upgrade, or you will not force Vikings.

After I heard him say that 2 Colossi cost less Gas then 6-8 Vikings I shut down the stream in anger.

So I could not care less about his opinion, that is like IdrA saying Vortex is imbalanced while he INTENTIONALLY moves his entire army into one only to prove his point instead of having spread his units in the first place.


collossi cost 300/200 though. sorry, but lol.


He's factoring in the Thermal Lance upgrade.

it's 200 200, so 2 collossi with thermal lance still arent 800.



I love your ignorance you still need the robotics bay. Guess the Gas cost, Guess it.

Or do you think every Protoss has it anyway because of the Obvserver upgrades?
Well then Observers are pretty freaking expensive for the fact that every decent player can see them and kill them with one scan.

like i said. for vikings you need a second starport and additional upgrades.



so please consider these costs too.


200 150 for the starport
525 525 for level3 attack upgrades.

Well then the colossus cost
Colossus= 300 200
3/3/3 upgrades= 1575 1575
Extended Thermal Lance= 200 200
Robotics Bay= 200 200
Robotic Facility=200 100

In total:
2475 minerals
2275 gas


1 Broodlord

200 spawning pool
150 100 lair
infestation pit 100 100
hive 200 150
spire 200 200
greater spire 100 150
Corruptor 150 100
Brood lord morph 150 150
3/3 air 3/3 land upgrades 525 525 675 675 450 450 675 675

3575 minerals 3175 gas

Spawning Pool is 250 minerals since you sacrifice a drone for it as well, and infestation pit and spire is also 150 and 250.
How2getMaster
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany124 Posts
May 11 2012 21:49 GMT
#519
Well I think he´s right with TvP. But I also think Zerg is way stronger than Protoss and Terran.
Hope Flashs words have impact

Greetings.
DiamondToss looking for a team :)
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
May 11 2012 21:51 GMT
#520
The amount of Protoss damage control in this topic is astounding. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, and, believe it or not, a lot of people want to know Flash's opinion on balance.
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