On May 12 2012 06:55 Youtakenocandle wrote: I never followed sc1 and don't know much about Flash, but balance whining as a supposed sc1 legend is pretty lame.
Flash was sharing his current opnion (which could change in the future mind you). He understands RTS games like no one else, so I find your comment rather interesting. Should a pro never be allowed to voice balance issues they feel are relevant? Or is it that we all should agree that everything is always balanced? The bottom line is that pro gamers have the MOST right to complain about balance, and non pro gamers, well balance doesn't really affect our game all that much because our basics suck compared to pro gamers.
Do I agree with Flash? Mm I dunno really. But I do take his words more seriously than someone who plays ladder casually. Don't underestimate old legends
On May 12 2012 06:58 parduebob11 wrote: Flash just like Boxer and July will become a decent sc2 pro.He will not become bonjwa again that is for sure but I would not be surprised to see him in the upper stages of a GSL.Flash vs Nestea or Jaedong vs MVP are some nice phantasy games.
Why would a incredibly talented young player never be able to be better than an old player that is way past his maximum potential?
On May 12 2012 06:54 trinxified wrote: I don't think Flash is serious about that imbalance comment, and even if he is, he doesn't have enough experience to make that judgement yet.
Nonetheless, I agree with Protoss being imbalanced, but I could say the same thing with Terran and Zerg. Each race has their own imbalance and most people are quick to say that the race they aren't playing are always "imba" or "OP".
What makes you think he isn't serious about the imbalance comments? And you say he doesn't have enough experience to make that judgement which may be true (I definitely don't see it that way personally). He was just answering a question he was asked, giving his opinion on the matter like you just did. And I would bet he is in a more proper position to talk about balance than you.
Implying hes the only pro to say that protoss was a bit too strong. Demuslim talked about it on his stream for about 5-10 minutes or so and he had really good points with real evidence.
He said that Colossus tech is cheap compared to the Vikings you had to get.
He stated that for 2 Colossi you need about 8 Vikings and that eats too much into your Bio.
8 Vikings = 600 Gas. 2 Colossi = 800 Gas, yeah so cheap.... you obviously need the range upgrade, or you will not force Vikings.
After I heard him say that 2 Colossi cost less Gas then 6-8 Vikings I shut down the stream in anger.
So I could not care less about his opinion, that is like IdrA saying Vortex is imbalanced while he INTENTIONALLY moves his entire army into one only to prove his point instead of having spread his units in the first place.
collossi cost 300/200 though. sorry, but lol.
yes but you need robbotics bay and the range upgrade 200 gas each, I do not count the starport that you have anyway same as Robo itself sorry but think.
Wow, really terrible logic. Have you even considered that vikings need seperate upgrades? Can you even comprehend how much it will cost to get my vikings to 3-3 so they can go up against your 3-3 army? I can't, so I just have to do with 3-0 vikings to fight an army with 3 attack and 3 armor. Now how's that for fair? I think Protoss have the better end whatever a robotics bay and/or what thermal lance costs.
A collosi switch can only be benefitial since: 1. Vikings suck. Period. They don't share upgrades with your main army and they are no good in a stratight up fight except for dealing with collosi. 2. They take up your starport so you can't make medivacs. 3. It will kill you if you are not prepared or at the very least cripple you.
I can't see why a protoss would not go collosi but I can see several reason why Terran really wouldn't want to get vikings if it weren't for the fact that we are forced to make them in order to survive the ultimate 1-a unit.
This is just getting redicilous so I will leave.
But just so you know I can make statements like yours too.
Get 2 Ravens, get 4 Vikings, get a ton of Banshees. Snipe the Observers and win.
Honestly you do not think things through at all so I won't either.
Such a lame answer.
Fair enough.
Here is your statement: Vikings SUCK vs Protoss except vs Colossi.
A unit that can only attack 5 different units of one race sucks vs said race when they do not build any of those 5 units.
Since Void Rays, Phoenix, Carrier and Mothership are useless vs Terran. you can only get 1 of those 5 Units being Colossi
Implying hes the only pro to say that protoss was a bit too strong. Demuslim talked about it on his stream for about 5-10 minutes or so and he had really good points with real evidence.
He said that Colossus tech is cheap compared to the Vikings you had to get.
He stated that for 2 Colossi you need about 8 Vikings and that eats too much into your Bio.
8 Vikings = 600 Gas. 2 Colossi = 800 Gas, yeah so cheap.... you obviously need the range upgrade, or you will not force Vikings.
After I heard him say that 2 Colossi cost less Gas then 6-8 Vikings I shut down the stream in anger.
So I could not care less about his opinion, that is like IdrA saying Vortex is imbalanced while he INTENTIONALLY moves his entire army into one only to prove his point instead of having spread his units in the first place.
collossi cost 300/200 though. sorry, but lol.
yes but you need robbotics bay and the range upgrade 200 gas each, I do not count the starport that you have anyway same as Robo itself sorry but think.
Wow, really terrible logic. Have you even considered that vikings need seperate upgrades? Can you even comprehend how much it will cost to get my vikings to 3-3 so they can go up against your 3-3 army? I can't, so I just have to do with 3-0 vikings to fight an army with 3 attack and 3 armor. Now how's that for fair? I think Protoss have the better end whatever a robotics bay and/or what thermal lance costs.
A collosi switch can only be benefitial since: 1. Vikings suck. Period. They don't share upgrades with your main army and they are no good in a stratight up fight except for dealing with collosi. 2. They take up your starport so you can't make medivacs. 3. It will kill you if you are not prepared or at the very least cripple you.
I can't see why a protoss would not go collosi but I can see several reason why Terran really wouldn't want to get vikings if it weren't for the fact that we are forced to make them in order to survive the ultimate 1-a unit.
This is just getting redicilous so I will leave.
But just so you know I can make statements like yours too.
Get 2 Ravens, get 4 Vikings, get a ton of Banshees. Snipe the Observers and win.
Honestly you do not think things through at all so I won't either.
Such a lame answer.
Fair enough.
Here is your statement: Vikings SUCK vs Protoss except vs Colossi.
A unit that can only attack 5 different units of one race sucks vs said race when they do not build any of those 5 units.
Since Void Rays, Phoenix, Carrier and Mothership are useless vs Terran. you can only get 1 of those 5 Units being Colossi
Congratz for your enlightenment.
That didn't make any sense.
exactly.. Which is why I at first did not want to comment.
Also the statement in itself makes perfect sence, it is just useless.
On May 12 2012 05:56 rEalGuapo wrote: [quote] He said that Colossus tech is cheap compared to the Vikings you had to get. He stated that for 2 Colossi you need about 8 Vikings and that eats too much into your Bio. 8 Vikings = 600 Gas. 2 Colossi = 800 Gas, yeah so cheap.... you obviously need the range upgrade, or you will not force Vikings. After I heard him say that 2 Colossi cost less Gas then 6-8 Vikings I shut down the stream in anger. So I could not care less about his opinion, that is like IdrA saying Vortex is imbalanced while he INTENTIONALLY moves his entire army into one only to prove his point instead of having spread his units in the first place.
collossi cost 300/200 though. sorry, but lol.
He's factoring in the Thermal Lance upgrade.
it's 200 200, so 2 collossi with thermal lance still arent 800.
I love your ignorance you still need the robotics bay. Guess the Gas cost, Guess it. Or do you think every Protoss has it anyway because of the Obvserver upgrades? Well then Observers are pretty freaking expensive for the fact that every decent player can see them and kill them with one scan.
like i said. for vikings you need a second starport and additional upgrades. so please consider these costs too. 200 150 for the starport 525 525 for level3 attack upgrades.
Well then the colossus cost Colossus= 300 200 3/3/3 upgrades= 1575 1575 Extended Thermal Lance= 200 200 Robotics Bay= 200 200 Robotic Facility=200 100 In total: 2475 minerals 2275 gas
1 Broodlord 200 spawning pool 150 100 lair infestation pit 100 100 hive 200 150 spire 200 200 greater spire 100 150 Corruptor 150 100 Brood lord morph 150 150 3/3 air 3/3 land upgrades 525 525 675 675 450 450 675 675 3575 minerals 3175 gas
Spawning Pool is 250 minerals since you sacrifice a drone for it as well, and infestation pit and spire is also 150 and 250.
Actually you need to make at least 2 extractors to mine that much gas so that would be another 150 minerals.
Not to mention you needed overlords to make the drones (probably around 600 minerals), you had to buy another base to make getting mutalisks viable (350 minerals) and 2 more extractors (150 more).
On May 12 2012 06:55 Youtakenocandle wrote: I never followed sc1 and don't know much about Flash, but balance whining as a supposed sc1 legend is pretty lame.
Flash was sharing his current opnion (which could change in the future mind you). He understands RTS games like no one else, so I find your comment rather interesting.
Wrong. He understands SC:BW like no one else. I'd bet you everything I had that he knows jack-all about C&C, Age of Empires, or even WC3.
To say he understands BW, so he automatically knows more than Code S players is complete bull.
On May 12 2012 06:04 beg wrote: [quote] collossi cost 300/200 though. sorry, but lol.
He's factoring in the Thermal Lance upgrade.
it's 200 200, so 2 collossi with thermal lance still arent 800.
I love your ignorance you still need the robotics bay. Guess the Gas cost, Guess it. Or do you think every Protoss has it anyway because of the Obvserver upgrades? Well then Observers are pretty freaking expensive for the fact that every decent player can see them and kill them with one scan.
like i said. for vikings you need a second starport and additional upgrades. so please consider these costs too. 200 150 for the starport 525 525 for level3 attack upgrades.
Well then the colossus cost Colossus= 300 200 3/3/3 upgrades= 1575 1575 Extended Thermal Lance= 200 200 Robotics Bay= 200 200 Robotic Facility=200 100 In total: 2475 minerals 2275 gas
1 Broodlord 200 spawning pool 150 100 lair infestation pit 100 100 hive 200 150 spire 200 200 greater spire 100 150 Corruptor 150 100 Brood lord morph 150 150 3/3 air 3/3 land upgrades 525 525 675 675 450 450 675 675 3575 minerals 3175 gas
Spawning Pool is 250 minerals since you sacrifice a drone for it as well, and infestation pit and spire is also 150 and 250.
Actually you need to make at least 2 extractors to mine that much gas so that would be another 150 minerals.
Not to mention you needed overlords to make the drones (probably around 600 minerals), you had to buy another base to make getting mutalisks viable (350 minerals) and 2 more extractors (150 more).
ZERG too expensive!
Yeah and you did not even account for the Drones needed to mine the resources, PLUS you need queens to have decent Drone production or a ton of hatches!
Implying hes the only pro to say that protoss was a bit too strong. Demuslim talked about it on his stream for about 5-10 minutes or so and he had really good points with real evidence.
He said that Colossus tech is cheap compared to the Vikings you had to get.
He stated that for 2 Colossi you need about 8 Vikings and that eats too much into your Bio.
8 Vikings = 600 Gas. 2 Colossi = 800 Gas, yeah so cheap.... you obviously need the range upgrade, or you will not force Vikings.
After I heard him say that 2 Colossi cost less Gas then 6-8 Vikings I shut down the stream in anger.
So I could not care less about his opinion, that is like IdrA saying Vortex is imbalanced while he INTENTIONALLY moves his entire army into one only to prove his point instead of having spread his units in the first place.
collossi cost 300/200 though. sorry, but lol.
yes but you need robbotics bay and the range upgrade 200 gas each, I do not count the starport that you have anyway same as Robo itself sorry but think.
Wow, really terrible logic. Have you even considered that vikings need seperate upgrades? Can you even comprehend how much it will cost to get my vikings to 3-3 so they can go up against your 3-3 army? I can't, so I just have to do with 3-0 vikings to fight an army with 3 attack and 3 armor. Now how's that for fair? I think Protoss have the better end whatever a robotics bay and/or what thermal lance costs.
A collosi switch can only be benefitial since: 1. Vikings suck. Period. They don't share upgrades with your main army and they are no good in a stratight up fight except for dealing with collosi. 2. They take up your starport so you can't make medivacs. 3. It will kill you if you are not prepared or at the very least cripple you.
I can't see why a protoss would not go collosi but I can see several reason why Terran really wouldn't want to get vikings if it weren't for the fact that we are forced to make them in order to survive the ultimate 1-a unit.
This is just getting redicilous so I will leave.
But just so you know I can make statements like yours too.
Get 2 Ravens, get 4 Vikings, get a ton of Banshees. Snipe the Observers and win.
Honestly you do not think things through at all so I won't either.
Such a lame answer.
Fair enough.
Here is your statement: Vikings SUCK vs Protoss except vs Colossi.
A unit that can only attack 5 different units of one race sucks vs said race when they do not build any of those 5 units.
Since Void Rays, Phoenix, Carrier and Mothership are useless vs Terran. you can only get 1 of those 5 Units being Colossi
Congratz for your enlightenment.
That didn't make any sense.
exactly.. Which is why I at first did not want to comment.
Also the statement in itself makes perfect sence, it is just useless.
On May 12 2012 06:05 Bayyne wrote: [quote] He's factoring in the Thermal Lance upgrade.
it's 200 200, so 2 collossi with thermal lance still arent 800.
I love your ignorance you still need the robotics bay. Guess the Gas cost, Guess it. Or do you think every Protoss has it anyway because of the Obvserver upgrades? Well then Observers are pretty freaking expensive for the fact that every decent player can see them and kill them with one scan.
like i said. for vikings you need a second starport and additional upgrades. so please consider these costs too. 200 150 for the starport 525 525 for level3 attack upgrades.
Well then the colossus cost Colossus= 300 200 3/3/3 upgrades= 1575 1575 Extended Thermal Lance= 200 200 Robotics Bay= 200 200 Robotic Facility=200 100 In total: 2475 minerals 2275 gas
1 Broodlord 200 spawning pool 150 100 lair infestation pit 100 100 hive 200 150 spire 200 200 greater spire 100 150 Corruptor 150 100 Brood lord morph 150 150 3/3 air 3/3 land upgrades 525 525 675 675 450 450 675 675 3575 minerals 3175 gas
Spawning Pool is 250 minerals since you sacrifice a drone for it as well, and infestation pit and spire is also 150 and 250.
Actually you need to make at least 2 extractors to mine that much gas so that would be another 150 minerals.
Not to mention you needed overlords to make the drones (probably around 600 minerals), you had to buy another base to make getting mutalisks viable (350 minerals) and 2 more extractors (150 more).
ZERG too expensive!
Yeah and you did not even account for the Drones needed to mine the resources, PLUS you need queens to have decent Drone production or a ton of hatches!
Oh jesus. People need to realise that little maths arguments mean nothing.
On May 12 2012 06:55 Youtakenocandle wrote: I never followed sc1 and don't know much about Flash, but balance whining as a supposed sc1 legend is pretty lame.
Flash was sharing his current opnion (which could change in the future mind you). He understands RTS games like no one else, so I find your comment rather interesting. Should a pro never be allowed to voice balance issues they feel are relevant? Or is it that we all should agree that everything is always balanced? The bottom line is that pro gamers have the MOST right to complain about balance, and non pro gamers, well balance doesn't really affect our game all that much because our basics suck compared to pro gamers.
Do I agree with Flash? Mm I dunno really. But I do take his words more seriously than someone who plays ladder casually. Don't underestimate old legends
It's bad because he's having such a strong opinion without even playing the game that much.
On May 12 2012 06:07 beg wrote: [quote] it's 200 200, so 2 collossi with thermal lance still arent 800.
I love your ignorance you still need the robotics bay. Guess the Gas cost, Guess it. Or do you think every Protoss has it anyway because of the Obvserver upgrades? Well then Observers are pretty freaking expensive for the fact that every decent player can see them and kill them with one scan.
like i said. for vikings you need a second starport and additional upgrades. so please consider these costs too. 200 150 for the starport 525 525 for level3 attack upgrades.
Well then the colossus cost Colossus= 300 200 3/3/3 upgrades= 1575 1575 Extended Thermal Lance= 200 200 Robotics Bay= 200 200 Robotic Facility=200 100 In total: 2475 minerals 2275 gas
1 Broodlord 200 spawning pool 150 100 lair infestation pit 100 100 hive 200 150 spire 200 200 greater spire 100 150 Corruptor 150 100 Brood lord morph 150 150 3/3 air 3/3 land upgrades 525 525 675 675 450 450 675 675 3575 minerals 3175 gas
Spawning Pool is 250 minerals since you sacrifice a drone for it as well, and infestation pit and spire is also 150 and 250.
Actually you need to make at least 2 extractors to mine that much gas so that would be another 150 minerals.
Not to mention you needed overlords to make the drones (probably around 600 minerals), you had to buy another base to make getting mutalisks viable (350 minerals) and 2 more extractors (150 more).
ZERG too expensive!
Yeah and you did not even account for the Drones needed to mine the resources, PLUS you need queens to have decent Drone production or a ton of hatches!
Oh jesus. People need to realise that little maths arguments mean nothing.
Seems the running gag of the last few pages escaped you.
On May 12 2012 06:55 Youtakenocandle wrote: I never followed sc1 and don't know much about Flash, but balance whining as a supposed sc1 legend is pretty lame.
Flash was sharing his current opnion (which could change in the future mind you). He understands RTS games like no one else, so I find your comment rather interesting.
Wrong. He understands SC:BW like no one else. I'd bet you everything I had that he knows jack-all about C&C, Age of Empires, or even WC3.
To say he understands BW, so he automatically knows more than Code S players is complete bull.
Artosis has admitted on SotG that some code S players have no understanding of the game at all. And also I don't see any quote mentioning he thought Flash knew more than any code S player.
I'm glad flash has been saying what i've been saying all along. Now people have to listen right? It's flash. And it's refreshing to see such a good player just be blunt and honest instead of "oh yeah protoss 'very strong' " right now. You guys know what i'm talking about, those interviews where they interview Terrans right now, and the Terran wants to scream out "IT'S BS" but they just say "they very strong right now."
EPT
He'll learn in time/ Change races. Come to the dark side!
