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"Lol, poor Zerg. Oh no blue flame hellions! Nerf. Oh no hellions denying creep! Queen Buff. Oh no we dont know whats coming out of Terran base! Overlord speed buff! Oh no we cant handle 11/11 rushes! Rax build time increased, bunker salvage nerf, bunker build time increased. Oh no ghosts are pretty good against Z late game units! Ghost snipe cut in half... The list goes on, but simply saying "Zerg struggled and learned how to play" is quite ridiculous. Must be nice to have a silver platter..."
It goes both ways though
Oh no ! Zerg is making zerglings. what should i make? marines. roaches? marines. mutas? marines.. etc.
I agree that terran is the hardest to play, but they do have the strongest mid game simply because they have so many options. They have a weak late game becasue they don't have any options (assuming - battlecruisers/thors not viable). If you buffed the terran late game you would see terrans spike to 80/90% win rates because they would be strong all game and their options would be rediculous.
The difference between Terran and the other two races is that toss/zerg Build towards these deathballs using the 'cannon fodder' (zergling/zealot etc) , where as terran builds towards a Support Ball the helps out their cannon fodder. I imagine it is very hard to buff the support ball to a level that balances against the death ball without making them overpowered with other things.
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On May 27 2012 21:25 Bearwidme wrote:
"Lol, poor Zerg. Oh no blue flame hellions! Nerf. Oh no hellions denying creep! Queen Buff. Oh no we dont know whats coming out of Terran base! Overlord speed buff! Oh no we cant handle 11/11 rushes! Rax build time increased, bunker salvage nerf, bunker build time increased. Oh no ghosts are pretty good against Z late game units! Ghost snipe cut in half... The list goes on, but simply saying "Zerg struggled and learned how to play" is quite ridiculous. Must be nice to have a silver platter..."
It goes both ways though
Oh no ! Zerg is making zerglings. what should i make? marines. roaches? marines. mutas? marines.. etc.
I agree that terran is the hardest to play, but they do have the strongest mid game simply because they have so many options. They have a weak late game becasue they don't have any options (assuming - battlecruisers/thors not viable). If you buffed the terran late game you would see terrans spike to 80/90% win rates because they would be strong all game and their options would be rediculous.
The difference between Terran and the other two races is that toss/zerg Build towards these deathballs using the 'cannon fodder' (zergling/zealot etc) , where as terran builds towards a Support Ball the helps out their cannon fodder. I imagine it is very hard to buff the support ball to a level that balances against the death ball without making them overpowered with other things.
Terran makes marines because they HAVE TO. We don't have any other cost efficient unit like that. On the ground: Nothing is really as cost efficient as the marine, possibly the tank but that's not a "massable" unit like that marine. For AA: We have thors (lol), vikings, ghosts, BCs, and Ravens. Tell me what we're supposed to make OTHER THAN marines to deal with anti air? Vikings? Hard countered by mutas because you need to have equal numbers of vikings to mutas and they don't shoot down (unless in ground mode) and if you have that many vikings he can switch to all lings/roaches. Thors are only good vs mutas, clumped up Broodlords/corruptors, but need marines and other support units. They also have a very long build time and are expensive.Ghosts...pretty self explanatory why we don't mass them anymore, and BCs and Ravens...you can figure out why they aren't massable units early.
Yes, the core of our army is marines, but that's because we just don't have good late game units. Mvp literally had to make 25 BCs vs. Squirtle to get a point where he was comfortable engaging. I've seen more times than not where BCs have failed tbh.
Is Terran underpowered? Clearly not, but it seems like at the moment Blizzard went overboard with nerfs to Terran and buffs to Protoss/Zerg. We still have viable units and all that, but lots of my favorite openers were substantially weakened. I used to do an MMA reaper double expand build (it's old school and is a little worse than the bomber one but it is much safer), and now it's not viable because I just can't do anything with the reaper. Queens just have too much range and can really just deny my reaper all day. Hellions are much worse too now, but they're still good I guess. Day9 even made a comment on one of his dailies about Zerg at MLG, how they only really lost to Polt, Dream, and Inori.
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On May 27 2012 20:55 Mandalor wrote:
As a protoss player, I agree with some of the terrans here. I'd love it if blizzard nerfed some protoss units and gave me a tier 1/1.5 unit that beneftis greatly from micro. Protoss armies being too "a-movey" has its downsides, too. If you're behind, you just don't have the potential terran has to come back with good micro. The only possibilites are by engaging at a better angle. However, that only works if your terran opponent is willing to engage at a bad location.
Hopefully HotS will introduce such a unit.
What we get instead is a lategame flying unit thats certainly going to get nerfed into the ground so it can -only- be useful vs mass numbers of mutalisks(and is a 1-move unit btw), and a harass unit that costs a lot and can not possibly "end the game" like the other two race's harass units can (mutalisks, hellions, zerglings, medivac drops, banshees etc). For this they took away carriers (which, remember, used to benefit greatly from micro in bw), and the mothership (which personally is my favorite unit, altough the use it has right now borderlines on stupidity).
I haven't tried hots thought, so I probably shouldn't comment too much on it. But on paper it doesn't look like its going in the right direction.
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the problem with terran is the marine , these guys overshadows all the other units, is too efficient or perhaps the others units are less
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Terrans just can't react to tech swap fast enough so they rely on bioball which are good but not best against everything else.
Protoss at least can swap between their gateway units pretty fast through Warpgates (the least this can do is countering air/ground ratio of stalkers and zealots), and we don't really need to talk about Zerg tech swapping.
As much as I dislike balance whines, I see this as a legitimate concern, and is also the main reason that most terran pros end the game as early as they can after one attack to prevent tech swap.
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On May 27 2012 21:42 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 21:25 Bearwidme wrote:
"Lol, poor Zerg. Oh no blue flame hellions! Nerf. Oh no hellions denying creep! Queen Buff. Oh no we dont know whats coming out of Terran base! Overlord speed buff! Oh no we cant handle 11/11 rushes! Rax build time increased, bunker salvage nerf, bunker build time increased. Oh no ghosts are pretty good against Z late game units! Ghost snipe cut in half... The list goes on, but simply saying "Zerg struggled and learned how to play" is quite ridiculous. Must be nice to have a silver platter..."
It goes both ways though
Oh no ! Zerg is making zerglings. what should i make? marines. roaches? marines. mutas? marines.. etc.
I agree that terran is the hardest to play, but they do have the strongest mid game simply because they have so many options. They have a weak late game becasue they don't have any options (assuming - battlecruisers/thors not viable). If you buffed the terran late game you would see terrans spike to 80/90% win rates because they would be strong all game and their options would be rediculous.
The difference between Terran and the other two races is that toss/zerg Build towards these deathballs using the 'cannon fodder' (zergling/zealot etc) , where as terran builds towards a Support Ball the helps out their cannon fodder. I imagine it is very hard to buff the support ball to a level that balances against the death ball without making them overpowered with other things. Terran makes marines because they HAVE TO. We don't have any other cost efficient unit like that. On the ground: Nothing is really as cost efficient as the marine, possibly the tank but that's not a "massable" unit like that marine. For AA: We have thors (lol), vikings, ghosts, BCs, and Ravens. Tell me what we're supposed to make OTHER THAN marines to deal with anti air? Vikings? Hard countered by mutas because you need to have equal numbers of vikings to mutas and they don't shoot down (unless in ground mode) and if you have that many vikings he can switch to all lings/roaches. Thors are only good vs mutas, clumped up Broodlords/corruptors, but need marines and other support units. They also have a very long build time and are expensive.Ghosts...pretty self explanatory why we don't mass them anymore, and BCs and Ravens...you can figure out why they aren't massable units early. Yes, the core of our army is marines, but that's because we just don't have good late game units. Mvp literally had to make 25 BCs vs. Squirtle to get a point where he was comfortable engaging. I've seen more times than not where BCs have failed tbh. Is Terran underpowered? Clearly not, but it seems like at the moment Blizzard went overboard with nerfs to Terran and buffs to Protoss/Zerg. We still have viable units and all that, but lots of my favorite openers were substantially weakened. I used to do an MMA reaper double expand build (it's old school and is a little worse than the bomber one but it is much safer), and now it's not viable because I just can't do anything with the reaper. Queens just have too much range and can really just deny my reaper all day. Hellions are much worse too now, but they're still good I guess. Day9 even made a comment on one of his dailies about Zerg at MLG, how they only really lost to Polt, Dream, and Inori.
The simple fact that players like MKP have pure marine strategies in all 3 MU invalidates your argument.
Good day sir.
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On May 27 2012 22:49 Jermstuddog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 21:42 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:On May 27 2012 21:25 Bearwidme wrote:
"Lol, poor Zerg. Oh no blue flame hellions! Nerf. Oh no hellions denying creep! Queen Buff. Oh no we dont know whats coming out of Terran base! Overlord speed buff! Oh no we cant handle 11/11 rushes! Rax build time increased, bunker salvage nerf, bunker build time increased. Oh no ghosts are pretty good against Z late game units! Ghost snipe cut in half... The list goes on, but simply saying "Zerg struggled and learned how to play" is quite ridiculous. Must be nice to have a silver platter..."
It goes both ways though
Oh no ! Zerg is making zerglings. what should i make? marines. roaches? marines. mutas? marines.. etc.
I agree that terran is the hardest to play, but they do have the strongest mid game simply because they have so many options. They have a weak late game becasue they don't have any options (assuming - battlecruisers/thors not viable). If you buffed the terran late game you would see terrans spike to 80/90% win rates because they would be strong all game and their options would be rediculous.
The difference between Terran and the other two races is that toss/zerg Build towards these deathballs using the 'cannon fodder' (zergling/zealot etc) , where as terran builds towards a Support Ball the helps out their cannon fodder. I imagine it is very hard to buff the support ball to a level that balances against the death ball without making them overpowered with other things. Terran makes marines because they HAVE TO. We don't have any other cost efficient unit like that. On the ground: Nothing is really as cost efficient as the marine, possibly the tank but that's not a "massable" unit like that marine. For AA: We have thors (lol), vikings, ghosts, BCs, and Ravens. Tell me what we're supposed to make OTHER THAN marines to deal with anti air? Vikings? Hard countered by mutas because you need to have equal numbers of vikings to mutas and they don't shoot down (unless in ground mode) and if you have that many vikings he can switch to all lings/roaches. Thors are only good vs mutas, clumped up Broodlords/corruptors, but need marines and other support units. They also have a very long build time and are expensive.Ghosts...pretty self explanatory why we don't mass them anymore, and BCs and Ravens...you can figure out why they aren't massable units early. Yes, the core of our army is marines, but that's because we just don't have good late game units. Mvp literally had to make 25 BCs vs. Squirtle to get a point where he was comfortable engaging. I've seen more times than not where BCs have failed tbh. Is Terran underpowered? Clearly not, but it seems like at the moment Blizzard went overboard with nerfs to Terran and buffs to Protoss/Zerg. We still have viable units and all that, but lots of my favorite openers were substantially weakened. I used to do an MMA reaper double expand build (it's old school and is a little worse than the bomber one but it is much safer), and now it's not viable because I just can't do anything with the reaper. Queens just have too much range and can really just deny my reaper all day. Hellions are much worse too now, but they're still good I guess. Day9 even made a comment on one of his dailies about Zerg at MLG, how they only really lost to Polt, Dream, and Inori. The simple fact that players like MKP have pure marine strategies in all 3 MU invalidates your argument. Good day sir.
If anything, that proves his argument.
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On May 27 2012 22:49 Jermstuddog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 21:42 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:On May 27 2012 21:25 Bearwidme wrote:
"Lol, poor Zerg. Oh no blue flame hellions! Nerf. Oh no hellions denying creep! Queen Buff. Oh no we dont know whats coming out of Terran base! Overlord speed buff! Oh no we cant handle 11/11 rushes! Rax build time increased, bunker salvage nerf, bunker build time increased. Oh no ghosts are pretty good against Z late game units! Ghost snipe cut in half... The list goes on, but simply saying "Zerg struggled and learned how to play" is quite ridiculous. Must be nice to have a silver platter..."
It goes both ways though
Oh no ! Zerg is making zerglings. what should i make? marines. roaches? marines. mutas? marines.. etc.
I agree that terran is the hardest to play, but they do have the strongest mid game simply because they have so many options. They have a weak late game becasue they don't have any options (assuming - battlecruisers/thors not viable). If you buffed the terran late game you would see terrans spike to 80/90% win rates because they would be strong all game and their options would be rediculous.
The difference between Terran and the other two races is that toss/zerg Build towards these deathballs using the 'cannon fodder' (zergling/zealot etc) , where as terran builds towards a Support Ball the helps out their cannon fodder. I imagine it is very hard to buff the support ball to a level that balances against the death ball without making them overpowered with other things. Terran makes marines because they HAVE TO. We don't have any other cost efficient unit like that. On the ground: Nothing is really as cost efficient as the marine, possibly the tank but that's not a "massable" unit like that marine. For AA: We have thors (lol), vikings, ghosts, BCs, and Ravens. Tell me what we're supposed to make OTHER THAN marines to deal with anti air? Vikings? Hard countered by mutas because you need to have equal numbers of vikings to mutas and they don't shoot down (unless in ground mode) and if you have that many vikings he can switch to all lings/roaches. Thors are only good vs mutas, clumped up Broodlords/corruptors, but need marines and other support units. They also have a very long build time and are expensive.Ghosts...pretty self explanatory why we don't mass them anymore, and BCs and Ravens...you can figure out why they aren't massable units early. Yes, the core of our army is marines, but that's because we just don't have good late game units. Mvp literally had to make 25 BCs vs. Squirtle to get a point where he was comfortable engaging. I've seen more times than not where BCs have failed tbh. Is Terran underpowered? Clearly not, but it seems like at the moment Blizzard went overboard with nerfs to Terran and buffs to Protoss/Zerg. We still have viable units and all that, but lots of my favorite openers were substantially weakened. I used to do an MMA reaper double expand build (it's old school and is a little worse than the bomber one but it is much safer), and now it's not viable because I just can't do anything with the reaper. Queens just have too much range and can really just deny my reaper all day. Hellions are much worse too now, but they're still good I guess. Day9 even made a comment on one of his dailies about Zerg at MLG, how they only really lost to Polt, Dream, and Inori. The simple fact that players like MKP have pure marine strategies in all 3 MU invalidates your argument. Good day sir.
How so ? Marines are the only all-around unit Terran has everything else has big downsides that even with the best micro can't be overcome which is why the best players rarely use strategies not involving them.
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On May 27 2012 21:46 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 20:55 Mandalor wrote:
As a protoss player, I agree with some of the terrans here. I'd love it if blizzard nerfed some protoss units and gave me a tier 1/1.5 unit that beneftis greatly from micro. Protoss armies being too "a-movey" has its downsides, too. If you're behind, you just don't have the potential terran has to come back with good micro. The only possibilites are by engaging at a better angle. However, that only works if your terran opponent is willing to engage at a bad location.
Hopefully HotS will introduce such a unit. What we get instead is a lategame flying unit thats certainly going to get nerfed into the ground so it can -only- be useful vs mass numbers of mutalisks(and is a 1-move unit btw), and a harass unit that costs a lot and can not possibly "end the game" like the other two race's harass units can (mutalisks, hellions, zerglings, medivac drops, banshees etc). For this they took away carriers (which, remember, used to benefit greatly from micro in bw), and the mothership (which personally is my favorite unit, altough the use it has right now borderlines on stupidity). I haven't tried hots thought, so I probably shouldn't comment too much on it. But on paper it doesn't look like its going in the right direction.
If you're talking about that new air unit, it has been taken out. There's no info on the replacement yet (afaik). The replicator was cancelled as well.
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On May 27 2012 23:00 upperbound wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 22:49 Jermstuddog wrote:On May 27 2012 21:42 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:On May 27 2012 21:25 Bearwidme wrote:
"Lol, poor Zerg. Oh no blue flame hellions! Nerf. Oh no hellions denying creep! Queen Buff. Oh no we dont know whats coming out of Terran base! Overlord speed buff! Oh no we cant handle 11/11 rushes! Rax build time increased, bunker salvage nerf, bunker build time increased. Oh no ghosts are pretty good against Z late game units! Ghost snipe cut in half... The list goes on, but simply saying "Zerg struggled and learned how to play" is quite ridiculous. Must be nice to have a silver platter..."
It goes both ways though
Oh no ! Zerg is making zerglings. what should i make? marines. roaches? marines. mutas? marines.. etc.
I agree that terran is the hardest to play, but they do have the strongest mid game simply because they have so many options. They have a weak late game becasue they don't have any options (assuming - battlecruisers/thors not viable). If you buffed the terran late game you would see terrans spike to 80/90% win rates because they would be strong all game and their options would be rediculous.
The difference between Terran and the other two races is that toss/zerg Build towards these deathballs using the 'cannon fodder' (zergling/zealot etc) , where as terran builds towards a Support Ball the helps out their cannon fodder. I imagine it is very hard to buff the support ball to a level that balances against the death ball without making them overpowered with other things. Terran makes marines because they HAVE TO. We don't have any other cost efficient unit like that. On the ground: Nothing is really as cost efficient as the marine, possibly the tank but that's not a "massable" unit like that marine. For AA: We have thors (lol), vikings, ghosts, BCs, and Ravens. Tell me what we're supposed to make OTHER THAN marines to deal with anti air? Vikings? Hard countered by mutas because you need to have equal numbers of vikings to mutas and they don't shoot down (unless in ground mode) and if you have that many vikings he can switch to all lings/roaches. Thors are only good vs mutas, clumped up Broodlords/corruptors, but need marines and other support units. They also have a very long build time and are expensive.Ghosts...pretty self explanatory why we don't mass them anymore, and BCs and Ravens...you can figure out why they aren't massable units early. Yes, the core of our army is marines, but that's because we just don't have good late game units. Mvp literally had to make 25 BCs vs. Squirtle to get a point where he was comfortable engaging. I've seen more times than not where BCs have failed tbh. Is Terran underpowered? Clearly not, but it seems like at the moment Blizzard went overboard with nerfs to Terran and buffs to Protoss/Zerg. We still have viable units and all that, but lots of my favorite openers were substantially weakened. I used to do an MMA reaper double expand build (it's old school and is a little worse than the bomber one but it is much safer), and now it's not viable because I just can't do anything with the reaper. Queens just have too much range and can really just deny my reaper all day. Hellions are much worse too now, but they're still good I guess. Day9 even made a comment on one of his dailies about Zerg at MLG, how they only really lost to Polt, Dream, and Inori. The simple fact that players like MKP have pure marine strategies in all 3 MU invalidates your argument. Good day sir. If anything, that proves his argument.
lol
Ok, lets go through the argument.
Terran doesn't WANT to build Marines, they HAVE to.
MKP has entire armies consisting of 100% Marines and nothing else... sounds like he WANTS to build Marines there...
Now that the whole basis of his argument is shot, lets look at the finer points.
He talks about no other unit being cost-effective like the marine, then proceeds to give specific examples where units are cost-effective like the marine.
Then he tries to act like Marines are somehow not good late-game units, when 3/3 Marines are among the scariest units in the game and pros use them long past the midgame without complaint because... well... they're so damn good.
I'm not here to raise my complaints about balance... see my year old quote from Jinro and that's all you really need to know how I feel about the game.
Just pointing out how the entire argument is based on the fallacy that marines are not a desirable unit where multiple entire game plans are built around this one unit and only this one unit in all 3 MU. No other unit in the game can claim that. Momentary stalker or roach attacks, sure. But those always transition into something else.
Marines on the other hand... 5 rax marine... 7 rax marine... I remember that game of Bomber vs Idra where Bomber literally made nothing but marines for like 20 minutes and barely lost. Countless MKP games.
QQ over how shitty the marine is all you want, but the facts just don't support the claim bro.
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![[image loading]](http://h-3.abload.de/img/g5d3vfi2l.jpg)
User was warned for this post
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On May 27 2012 23:09 Mandalor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 21:46 Excludos wrote:On May 27 2012 20:55 Mandalor wrote:
As a protoss player, I agree with some of the terrans here. I'd love it if blizzard nerfed some protoss units and gave me a tier 1/1.5 unit that beneftis greatly from micro. Protoss armies being too "a-movey" has its downsides, too. If you're behind, you just don't have the potential terran has to come back with good micro. The only possibilites are by engaging at a better angle. However, that only works if your terran opponent is willing to engage at a bad location.
Hopefully HotS will introduce such a unit. What we get instead is a lategame flying unit thats certainly going to get nerfed into the ground so it can -only- be useful vs mass numbers of mutalisks(and is a 1-move unit btw), and a harass unit that costs a lot and can not possibly "end the game" like the other two race's harass units can (mutalisks, hellions, zerglings, medivac drops, banshees etc). For this they took away carriers (which, remember, used to benefit greatly from micro in bw), and the mothership (which personally is my favorite unit, altough the use it has right now borderlines on stupidity). I haven't tried hots thought, so I probably shouldn't comment too much on it. But on paper it doesn't look like its going in the right direction. If you're talking about that new air unit, it has been taken out. There's no info on the replacement yet (afaik). The replicator was cancelled as well.
Source?
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i think the problem is the medivac. If you think about it the medivac coupled with bio and stim is what makes terran so strong in midgame and early game. This is why blizzard made t3 weak for terran.They designed t v x for terran to be aggressive and for x to turtle until late game. The problem is that now people are so good at turtling that midgame terran isn't so scary any more and people can just win once they get 3 bases up.
I rather see a game where no race has a clear advantage at any point. It would be nice to see other races play aggressive cuz theyre afraid of t late game for once.
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Terran has a strong early to middle game...
Zerg is mid-to-late as is Toss...though they have their advantages and disadvantages...
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On May 27 2012 20:55 Mandalor wrote:
As a protoss player, I agree with some of the terrans here. I'd love it if blizzard nerfed some protoss units and gave me a tier 1/1.5 unit that beneftis greatly from micro. Protoss armies being too "a-movey" has its downsides, too. If you're behind, you just don't have the potential terran has to come back with good micro. The only possibilites are by engaging at a better angle. However, that only works if your terran opponent is willing to engage at a bad location.
Hopefully HotS will introduce such a unit.
This. As much as I love a-moving my 200/200 3-3-3 deathball to victory, I do like micro. Phoenixes are my strong suit, but I'd be fine with a unit like the reaver that you can just pop in and out of a warp prism. But earlier tier. Like cyber core or twilight council and comes from gateway.
Actually, just make the sentry more micro-intensive. Boom.
Anyways, I love this patch. My PvZ is hugely air-based which means queen range I couldn't care less about, ovins still move slow enough for me to shoot, and observer build time means I can finally kill that DT who keeps catching me with my pants down.
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On May 27 2012 23:25 RedMosquito wrote:
i think the problem is the medivac. If you think about it the medivac coupled with bio and stim is what makes terran so strong in midgame and early game. This is why blizzard made t3 weak for terran.They designed t v x for terran to be aggressive and for x to turtle until late game. The problem is that now people are so good at turtling that midgame terran isn't so scary any more and people can just win once they get 3 bases up.
I rather see a game where no race has a clear advantage at any point. It would be nice to see other races play aggressive cuz theyre afraid of t late game for once.
You can think that, but that doesn't account for the PURE MARINE builds that also work.
The problem is, has, and according to blizzard, always will be the Marine.
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Wow, only 2 Terran in the korean GM top 20 and overall so few Terran, who would have guessed that after what happend in the past.
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On May 27 2012 23:09 Mandalor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 21:46 Excludos wrote:On May 27 2012 20:55 Mandalor wrote:
As a protoss player, I agree with some of the terrans here. I'd love it if blizzard nerfed some protoss units and gave me a tier 1/1.5 unit that beneftis greatly from micro. Protoss armies being too "a-movey" has its downsides, too. If you're behind, you just don't have the potential terran has to come back with good micro. The only possibilites are by engaging at a better angle. However, that only works if your terran opponent is willing to engage at a bad location.
Hopefully HotS will introduce such a unit. What we get instead is a lategame flying unit thats certainly going to get nerfed into the ground so it can -only- be useful vs mass numbers of mutalisks(and is a 1-move unit btw), and a harass unit that costs a lot and can not possibly "end the game" like the other two race's harass units can (mutalisks, hellions, zerglings, medivac drops, banshees etc). For this they took away carriers (which, remember, used to benefit greatly from micro in bw), and the mothership (which personally is my favorite unit, altough the use it has right now borderlines on stupidity). I haven't tried hots thought, so I probably shouldn't comment too much on it. But on paper it doesn't look like its going in the right direction. If you're talking about that new air unit, it has been taken out. There's no info on the replacement yet (afaik). The replicator was cancelled as well.
Was it? I must have missed that. I knew about the replicator thought. Well that certainly is good news  But with the beta being right around the corner, its weird they haven't mentioned anything about the replacement yet.
I'm still mad they've taken out the carrier thought. It would be like taking the siegetank out of terran, or hydralisk from zerg. They're iconic units.
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On May 27 2012 23:34 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 23:09 Mandalor wrote:On May 27 2012 21:46 Excludos wrote:On May 27 2012 20:55 Mandalor wrote:
As a protoss player, I agree with some of the terrans here. I'd love it if blizzard nerfed some protoss units and gave me a tier 1/1.5 unit that beneftis greatly from micro. Protoss armies being too "a-movey" has its downsides, too. If you're behind, you just don't have the potential terran has to come back with good micro. The only possibilites are by engaging at a better angle. However, that only works if your terran opponent is willing to engage at a bad location.
Hopefully HotS will introduce such a unit. What we get instead is a lategame flying unit thats certainly going to get nerfed into the ground so it can -only- be useful vs mass numbers of mutalisks(and is a 1-move unit btw), and a harass unit that costs a lot and can not possibly "end the game" like the other two race's harass units can (mutalisks, hellions, zerglings, medivac drops, banshees etc). For this they took away carriers (which, remember, used to benefit greatly from micro in bw), and the mothership (which personally is my favorite unit, altough the use it has right now borderlines on stupidity). I haven't tried hots thought, so I probably shouldn't comment too much on it. But on paper it doesn't look like its going in the right direction. If you're talking about that new air unit, it has been taken out. There's no info on the replacement yet (afaik). The replicator was cancelled as well. Was it? I must have missed that. I knew about the replicator thought. Well that certainly is good news But with the beta being right around the corner, its weird they haven't mentioned anything about the replacement yet. I'm still mad they've taken out the carrier thought. It would be like taking the siegetank out of terran, or hydralisk from zerg. They're iconic units.
They basically DID take the hydra out @@
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On May 27 2012 23:31 Jermstuddog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 23:25 RedMosquito wrote:
i think the problem is the medivac. If you think about it the medivac coupled with bio and stim is what makes terran so strong in midgame and early game. This is why blizzard made t3 weak for terran.They designed t v x for terran to be aggressive and for x to turtle until late game. The problem is that now people are so good at turtling that midgame terran isn't so scary any more and people can just win once they get 3 bases up.
I rather see a game where no race has a clear advantage at any point. It would be nice to see other races play aggressive cuz theyre afraid of t late game for once. You can think that, but that doesn't account for the PURE MARINE builds that also work. The problem is, has, and according to blizzard, always will be the Marine.
And Stephano has a couple of pure Zergling builds he wins with because he's just better than most of his opponents . The existence of pure marine builds prove nothing .
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EPT
