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On May 27 2012 08:24 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 07:44 convention wrote:On May 27 2012 06:53 teamhozac wrote:On May 26 2012 05:31 Dalavita wrote:On May 26 2012 02:45 Durp wrote:
I can guarantee any terran player posting complaints here that you will not improve, nor will the balance of the game, by you typing your grievances here. However, play more and practice more, and your TvP will stabilize. Funny. This is exactly what terrans were telling zergs and protosses back in the day. You know what happened? Blizzard buffed them. They didn't learn to play at all. Based on Blizzards track record it's better to keep whining. Yeah but they only listen to zerg and protoss whine, not terran Yeah, they listened to the zerg and protoss, because when they were whining, the GSL was almost all terran. Every tournament was won by terran. The W/L ratios were massively in terran's favor. The reason they don't listen to terran whining right now is because W/L are about 50%, terrans win about 33% of the tournaments, and GSL has a very good racial distribution for the first time ever. In other words, the game is finally close to being statistically balanced... which I'm guessing is why you are whining now? Yeah because we can all play as well as MKP and MVP, obviously terran needs more nerfs since these guys can consistently win, terran must be OP
This is literally the worst argument ever that is constantly proposed by low level players.
"Only X players can play to the point that the game is balanced derp derp"
Dude, if you're a T in diamond, your Z opponent in diamond isn't doing anything that much better than you. His unit control is probably about the same as yours. His macro probably about the same. If you're losing to any a-move deathball a la BL/infestor, learn to split. Really. Learn how to transition into Thor/Viking/Tank late game. It's not that hard, considering that your opponent WILL make just as many mistakes as you do.
There's no imbalance at diamond level, or any level beyond high GM. There might be TvZ imbalance slightly in favor of Z late game, but I think it balances it with how strong Terran is before that. There most definitely is (imo) late game PvT/PvZ imbalance, but again, that doesn't affect anyone below a certain level. It's just disgusting to see TL flooded with perpetual balance whine when the whiners have so much room to still improve. We all have room to improve.
Let the pros do the balance talk.
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Blizzard should be focusing their efforts on Heart of the Swarm instead of pointless patches.
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On May 27 2012 08:50 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 07:30 Excludos wrote:On May 27 2012 06:53 teamhozac wrote:On May 26 2012 05:31 Dalavita wrote:On May 26 2012 02:45 Durp wrote:
I can guarantee any terran player posting complaints here that you will not improve, nor will the balance of the game, by you typing your grievances here. However, play more and practice more, and your TvP will stabilize. Funny. This is exactly what terrans were telling zergs and protosses back in the day. You know what happened? Blizzard buffed them. They didn't learn to play at all. Based on Blizzards track record it's better to keep whining. Yeah but they only listen to zerg and protoss whine, not terran Its hard to listen to terran whine backed up by terran winning everything out there.. That was then. Now for the first time they actually have something to whine about, which is everything TvZ and endgame TvP. With both of them being hard to balance due to terran not having any proper lategame units. Especially TvP where siege tanks aren't viable. These might be issues not solevable before hots, which luckily isn't as far away anymore. My 2 cents anyways. People might argue that terran is suppose to get an advantage into the lategame by having a better early and middlegame compared to the other two races, but what then happens, and is happening, is that every terran aims to finish in the middlegame where they are strongest, instead of aiming for a lategame. This is the same problem protosses have vs zerg atm. Its so much easier to finish the game in the middle before broods are out, that no protosses really wants to aim for the lategame where a single mistake can ruin their army in a second. Protoss has a mothership for all those broodlordies. 
I love the mothership. I really do. But "crushing one army completely" or "backfiring and crushing your own army completely" is a bad and inconsistent mechanic. That + the fact that if the zerg spreads his broodlords a bit and keeps his infestors out, it doesn't matter in the slightest. You can catch up to half of the broods, and still not have enough left to kill the rest.
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On May 27 2012 08:52 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 08:24 teamhozac wrote:On May 27 2012 07:44 convention wrote:On May 27 2012 06:53 teamhozac wrote:On May 26 2012 05:31 Dalavita wrote:On May 26 2012 02:45 Durp wrote:
I can guarantee any terran player posting complaints here that you will not improve, nor will the balance of the game, by you typing your grievances here. However, play more and practice more, and your TvP will stabilize. Funny. This is exactly what terrans were telling zergs and protosses back in the day. You know what happened? Blizzard buffed them. They didn't learn to play at all. Based on Blizzards track record it's better to keep whining. Yeah but they only listen to zerg and protoss whine, not terran Yeah, they listened to the zerg and protoss, because when they were whining, the GSL was almost all terran. Every tournament was won by terran. The W/L ratios were massively in terran's favor. The reason they don't listen to terran whining right now is because W/L are about 50%, terrans win about 33% of the tournaments, and GSL has a very good racial distribution for the first time ever. In other words, the game is finally close to being statistically balanced... which I'm guessing is why you are whining now? Yeah because we can all play as well as MKP and MVP, obviously terran needs more nerfs since these guys can consistently win, terran must be OP This is literally the worst argument ever that is constantly proposed by low level players. "Only X players can play to the point that the game is balanced derp derp" Dude, if you're a T in diamond, your Z opponent in diamond isn't doing anything that much better than you. His unit control is probably about the same as yours. His macro probably about the same. If you're losing to any a-move deathball a la BL/infestor, learn to split. Really. Learn how to transition into Thor/Viking/Tank late game. It's not that hard, considering that your opponent WILL make just as many mistakes as you do. There's no imbalance at diamond level, or any level beyond high GM. There might be TvZ imbalance slightly in favor of Z late game, but I think it balances it with how strong Terran is before that. There most definitely is (imo) late game PvT/PvZ imbalance, but again, that doesn't affect anyone below a certain level. It's just disgusting to see TL flooded with perpetual balance whine when the whiners have so much room to still improve. We all have room to improve. Let the pros do the balance talk.
I disagree. The game can't possibly be balanced at all levels in the game. But the truth right now is that protoss has the army that gains least with micro, and thus is the easiest to just a-move. This will result in protoss being easier to play in the lower levels. Likewise, if you right now as zerg simply take a quick third into whatever, I can promise you that you will propell right out of whatever league you're inn and straight into masters, regardless of how bad your micro and macro is.
That said, what do you balance the game around? Obviously you can't balance it around silver players who does a ton of mistakes. The answer must then be to balance it around the players who don't do mistakes. But only MVP can play terran like he does, should that mean that every other terran should have an impossible time vs protoss in the lategame just because he's doing ok? (which they, btw, are having right now) I don't know the answer either btw. Just throwing it out there, its not so easy you make it out to be.
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U understand that even if u spread your brood lords you go no mobility right ? U cannot put all in 1 control group and move forward aka protoss style, you need to be very cautious and if you go 1 step ahead and you souldnt, you lose. No matter how ahead you were. Mothership is just really too strong recall, vortex, cloak units under, while zerg have what ? Yeah broodlord ? Very mobile unit that if your caught off gard you cant really blink away..
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On May 27 2012 09:11 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 08:52 Flonomenalz wrote:On May 27 2012 08:24 teamhozac wrote:On May 27 2012 07:44 convention wrote:On May 27 2012 06:53 teamhozac wrote:On May 26 2012 05:31 Dalavita wrote:On May 26 2012 02:45 Durp wrote:
I can guarantee any terran player posting complaints here that you will not improve, nor will the balance of the game, by you typing your grievances here. However, play more and practice more, and your TvP will stabilize. Funny. This is exactly what terrans were telling zergs and protosses back in the day. You know what happened? Blizzard buffed them. They didn't learn to play at all. Based on Blizzards track record it's better to keep whining. Yeah but they only listen to zerg and protoss whine, not terran Yeah, they listened to the zerg and protoss, because when they were whining, the GSL was almost all terran. Every tournament was won by terran. The W/L ratios were massively in terran's favor. The reason they don't listen to terran whining right now is because W/L are about 50%, terrans win about 33% of the tournaments, and GSL has a very good racial distribution for the first time ever. In other words, the game is finally close to being statistically balanced... which I'm guessing is why you are whining now? Yeah because we can all play as well as MKP and MVP, obviously terran needs more nerfs since these guys can consistently win, terran must be OP This is literally the worst argument ever that is constantly proposed by low level players. "Only X players can play to the point that the game is balanced derp derp" Dude, if you're a T in diamond, your Z opponent in diamond isn't doing anything that much better than you. His unit control is probably about the same as yours. His macro probably about the same. If you're losing to any a-move deathball a la BL/infestor, learn to split. Really. Learn how to transition into Thor/Viking/Tank late game. It's not that hard, considering that your opponent WILL make just as many mistakes as you do. There's no imbalance at diamond level, or any level beyond high GM. There might be TvZ imbalance slightly in favor of Z late game, but I think it balances it with how strong Terran is before that. There most definitely is (imo) late game PvT/PvZ imbalance, but again, that doesn't affect anyone below a certain level. It's just disgusting to see TL flooded with perpetual balance whine when the whiners have so much room to still improve. We all have room to improve. Let the pros do the balance talk. I disagree. The game can't possibly be balanced at all levels in the game. But the truth right now is that protoss has the army that gains least with micro, and thus is the easiest to just a-move. This will result in protoss being easier to play in the lower levels. Likewise, if you right now as zerg simply take a quick third into whatever, I can promise you that you will propell right out of whatever league you're inn and straight into masters, regardless of how bad your micro and macro is. That said, what do you balance the game around? Obviously you can't balance it around silver players who does a ton of mistakes. The answer must then be to balance it around the players who don't do mistakes. But only MVP can play terran like he does, should that mean that every other terran should have an impossible time vs protoss in the lategame just because he's doing ok? (which they, btw, are having right now) I don't know the answer either btw. Just throwing it out there, its not so easy you make it out to be.
I don't think it has the least to gain by being microed, but instead it is the best when not microed. When I watch PartinG, HerO, and other top level protoss players, I see the true potential of how strong a protoss army can be when microed by very talented players.
I hate the argument that "we all can't play like MKP and MVP". Yes, you can't play like them, good thing you aren't playing against PartinG and Squirtle. If you did, then you do in fact have to play like MKP and MVP. There is a reason, afterall, that terrans do win games on the ladder. Most of them (>99.9% of them) are no where near the skill level of MKP and MVP but still somehow manage to get by.
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On May 27 2012 09:13 Bellazuk wrote:
U understand that even if u spread your brood lords you go no mobility right ? U cannot put all in 1 control group and move forward aka protoss style, you need to be very cautious and if you go 1 step ahead and you souldnt, you lose. No matter how ahead you were. Mothership is just really too strong recall, vortex, cloak units under, while zerg have what ? Yeah broodlord ? Very mobile unit that if your caught off gard you cant really blink away..
I'm so tempted to just say "please don't talk about things you don't understand". But let me try to explain it too you:
Broodlords are so strong, especially with infestor support, that you can not meet them head on. Agreed? So what you're proposing instead is to go for a basetrade and then recall, correct? Then what? You'll have the exact same army meeting the exact same army just with 100 energy less on the mothership. That coupled with the fact that basetrading with a zerg never works. Its simply too easy for the zerg to set up bases along the entire map and fill one or two with a million spines to dwindle down your army into nothing, while the broods will continue to tear apart what is probably going to be only 3 bases.
I agree that protosses have to abuse the immobility of broodlords. But the mothership is not the "all being ultimate lategame unit" for this purpose. The warp prism is much better at this. So you can run around and snipe zerg bases and tech while the rest of your army sits home and try to dwindle down the broodlords before they manage to tear through everything.
edit: Also, whining that splitting broodlords is hard is pointless. They can be split, and good players will do it. You have to balance around that, and not the fact that you're having trouble with it.
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On May 27 2012 09:21 convention wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 09:11 Excludos wrote:On May 27 2012 08:52 Flonomenalz wrote:On May 27 2012 08:24 teamhozac wrote:On May 27 2012 07:44 convention wrote:On May 27 2012 06:53 teamhozac wrote:On May 26 2012 05:31 Dalavita wrote:On May 26 2012 02:45 Durp wrote:
I can guarantee any terran player posting complaints here that you will not improve, nor will the balance of the game, by you typing your grievances here. However, play more and practice more, and your TvP will stabilize. Funny. This is exactly what terrans were telling zergs and protosses back in the day. You know what happened? Blizzard buffed them. They didn't learn to play at all. Based on Blizzards track record it's better to keep whining. Yeah but they only listen to zerg and protoss whine, not terran Yeah, they listened to the zerg and protoss, because when they were whining, the GSL was almost all terran. Every tournament was won by terran. The W/L ratios were massively in terran's favor. The reason they don't listen to terran whining right now is because W/L are about 50%, terrans win about 33% of the tournaments, and GSL has a very good racial distribution for the first time ever. In other words, the game is finally close to being statistically balanced... which I'm guessing is why you are whining now? Yeah because we can all play as well as MKP and MVP, obviously terran needs more nerfs since these guys can consistently win, terran must be OP This is literally the worst argument ever that is constantly proposed by low level players. "Only X players can play to the point that the game is balanced derp derp" Dude, if you're a T in diamond, your Z opponent in diamond isn't doing anything that much better than you. His unit control is probably about the same as yours. His macro probably about the same. If you're losing to any a-move deathball a la BL/infestor, learn to split. Really. Learn how to transition into Thor/Viking/Tank late game. It's not that hard, considering that your opponent WILL make just as many mistakes as you do. There's no imbalance at diamond level, or any level beyond high GM. There might be TvZ imbalance slightly in favor of Z late game, but I think it balances it with how strong Terran is before that. There most definitely is (imo) late game PvT/PvZ imbalance, but again, that doesn't affect anyone below a certain level. It's just disgusting to see TL flooded with perpetual balance whine when the whiners have so much room to still improve. We all have room to improve. Let the pros do the balance talk. I disagree. The game can't possibly be balanced at all levels in the game. But the truth right now is that protoss has the army that gains least with micro, and thus is the easiest to just a-move. This will result in protoss being easier to play in the lower levels. Likewise, if you right now as zerg simply take a quick third into whatever, I can promise you that you will propell right out of whatever league you're inn and straight into masters, regardless of how bad your micro and macro is. That said, what do you balance the game around? Obviously you can't balance it around silver players who does a ton of mistakes. The answer must then be to balance it around the players who don't do mistakes. But only MVP can play terran like he does, should that mean that every other terran should have an impossible time vs protoss in the lategame just because he's doing ok? (which they, btw, are having right now) I don't know the answer either btw. Just throwing it out there, its not so easy you make it out to be. I don't think it has the least to gain by being microed, but instead it is the best when not microed. When I watch PartinG, HerO, and other top level protoss players, I see the true potential of how strong a protoss army can be when microed by very talented players. I hate the argument that "we all can't play like MKP and MVP". Yes, you can't play like them, good thing you aren't playing against PartinG and Squirtle. If you did, then you do in fact have to play like MKP and MVP. There is a reason, afterall, that terrans do win games on the ladder. Most of them (>99.9% of them) are no where near the skill level of MKP and MVP but still somehow manage to get by.
We are obviously talking about when you play against people your own skill level. And the truth is that right now terrans all the way to top grandmaster fear going into a lategame with toss. And thats not how the game should be.
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On May 27 2012 09:21 convention wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 09:11 Excludos wrote:On May 27 2012 08:52 Flonomenalz wrote:On May 27 2012 08:24 teamhozac wrote:On May 27 2012 07:44 convention wrote:On May 27 2012 06:53 teamhozac wrote:On May 26 2012 05:31 Dalavita wrote:On May 26 2012 02:45 Durp wrote:
I can guarantee any terran player posting complaints here that you will not improve, nor will the balance of the game, by you typing your grievances here. However, play more and practice more, and your TvP will stabilize. Funny. This is exactly what terrans were telling zergs and protosses back in the day. You know what happened? Blizzard buffed them. They didn't learn to play at all. Based on Blizzards track record it's better to keep whining. Yeah but they only listen to zerg and protoss whine, not terran Yeah, they listened to the zerg and protoss, because when they were whining, the GSL was almost all terran. Every tournament was won by terran. The W/L ratios were massively in terran's favor. The reason they don't listen to terran whining right now is because W/L are about 50%, terrans win about 33% of the tournaments, and GSL has a very good racial distribution for the first time ever. In other words, the game is finally close to being statistically balanced... which I'm guessing is why you are whining now? Yeah because we can all play as well as MKP and MVP, obviously terran needs more nerfs since these guys can consistently win, terran must be OP This is literally the worst argument ever that is constantly proposed by low level players. "Only X players can play to the point that the game is balanced derp derp" Dude, if you're a T in diamond, your Z opponent in diamond isn't doing anything that much better than you. His unit control is probably about the same as yours. His macro probably about the same. If you're losing to any a-move deathball a la BL/infestor, learn to split. Really. Learn how to transition into Thor/Viking/Tank late game. It's not that hard, considering that your opponent WILL make just as many mistakes as you do. There's no imbalance at diamond level, or any level beyond high GM. There might be TvZ imbalance slightly in favor of Z late game, but I think it balances it with how strong Terran is before that. There most definitely is (imo) late game PvT/PvZ imbalance, but again, that doesn't affect anyone below a certain level. It's just disgusting to see TL flooded with perpetual balance whine when the whiners have so much room to still improve. We all have room to improve. Let the pros do the balance talk. I disagree. The game can't possibly be balanced at all levels in the game. But the truth right now is that protoss has the army that gains least with micro, and thus is the easiest to just a-move. This will result in protoss being easier to play in the lower levels. Likewise, if you right now as zerg simply take a quick third into whatever, I can promise you that you will propell right out of whatever league you're inn and straight into masters, regardless of how bad your micro and macro is. That said, what do you balance the game around? Obviously you can't balance it around silver players who does a ton of mistakes. The answer must then be to balance it around the players who don't do mistakes. But only MVP can play terran like he does, should that mean that every other terran should have an impossible time vs protoss in the lategame just because he's doing ok? (which they, btw, are having right now) I don't know the answer either btw. Just throwing it out there, its not so easy you make it out to be. I don't think it has the least to gain by being microed, but instead it is the best when not microed. When I watch PartinG, HerO, and other top level protoss players, I see the true potential of how strong a protoss army can be when microed by very talented players. I hate the argument that "we all can't play like MKP and MVP". Yes, you can't play like them, good thing you aren't playing against PartinG and Squirtle. If you did, then you do in fact have to play like MKP and MVP. There is a reason, afterall, that terrans do win games on the ladder. Most of them (>99.9% of them) are no where near the skill level of MKP and MVP but still somehow manage to get by.
Protoss units are more effective then Terran Units with less micro though. Colossi , Archons , Zealots basically for example are pure A-move units there's not even really any micro possible with those units to make them more effective.
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On May 27 2012 08:52 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 08:24 teamhozac wrote:On May 27 2012 07:44 convention wrote:On May 27 2012 06:53 teamhozac wrote:On May 26 2012 05:31 Dalavita wrote:On May 26 2012 02:45 Durp wrote:
I can guarantee any terran player posting complaints here that you will not improve, nor will the balance of the game, by you typing your grievances here. However, play more and practice more, and your TvP will stabilize. Funny. This is exactly what terrans were telling zergs and protosses back in the day. You know what happened? Blizzard buffed them. They didn't learn to play at all. Based on Blizzards track record it's better to keep whining. Yeah but they only listen to zerg and protoss whine, not terran Yeah, they listened to the zerg and protoss, because when they were whining, the GSL was almost all terran. Every tournament was won by terran. The W/L ratios were massively in terran's favor. The reason they don't listen to terran whining right now is because W/L are about 50%, terrans win about 33% of the tournaments, and GSL has a very good racial distribution for the first time ever. In other words, the game is finally close to being statistically balanced... which I'm guessing is why you are whining now? Yeah because we can all play as well as MKP and MVP, obviously terran needs more nerfs since these guys can consistently win, terran must be OP This is literally the worst argument ever that is constantly proposed by low level players. "Only X players can play to the point that the game is balanced derp derp" Dude, if you're a T in diamond, your Z opponent in diamond isn't doing anything that much better than you. His unit control is probably about the same as yours. His macro probably about the same. If you're losing to any a-move deathball a la BL/infestor, learn to split. Really. Learn how to transition into Thor/Viking/Tank late game. It's not that hard, considering that your opponent WILL make just as many mistakes as you do. There's no imbalance at diamond level, or any level beyond high GM. There might be TvZ imbalance slightly in favor of Z late game, but I think it balances it with how strong Terran is before that. There most definitely is (imo) late game PvT/PvZ imbalance, but again, that doesn't affect anyone below a certain level. It's just disgusting to see TL flooded with perpetual balance whine when the whiners have so much room to still improve. We all have room to improve. Let the pros do the balance talk.
Saying there is no imbalance at anything below GM is just silly, two diamond players playing two different races at the exact same level, and one race always wins, yeah thats not imabalance, you just should have played better, makes a ton of sense when you look at it more clearly now doesnt it? Theres a reason why Terran is the least represented race in gold through masters in every region across the world, its because it is harder to play than the other two races.
And btw I go mech every TvZ, broodlord/corruptor pwns mech. Corruptors waste your vikings, and broodlords crap all over the rest of your army. Again, it comes down to timing, you have to kill zerg before theyre on 4-5 bases and get a bank going or you basically lost due to insta remax and tech switches, its just the way the game is, and it sucks sometimes... very similar to late game tvp
and what exactly does splitting against BL/infestor do? make your marines die slower?
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On May 27 2012 09:46 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 09:21 convention wrote:On May 27 2012 09:11 Excludos wrote:On May 27 2012 08:52 Flonomenalz wrote:On May 27 2012 08:24 teamhozac wrote:On May 27 2012 07:44 convention wrote:On May 27 2012 06:53 teamhozac wrote:On May 26 2012 05:31 Dalavita wrote:On May 26 2012 02:45 Durp wrote:
I can guarantee any terran player posting complaints here that you will not improve, nor will the balance of the game, by you typing your grievances here. However, play more and practice more, and your TvP will stabilize. Funny. This is exactly what terrans were telling zergs and protosses back in the day. You know what happened? Blizzard buffed them. They didn't learn to play at all. Based on Blizzards track record it's better to keep whining. Yeah but they only listen to zerg and protoss whine, not terran Yeah, they listened to the zerg and protoss, because when they were whining, the GSL was almost all terran. Every tournament was won by terran. The W/L ratios were massively in terran's favor. The reason they don't listen to terran whining right now is because W/L are about 50%, terrans win about 33% of the tournaments, and GSL has a very good racial distribution for the first time ever. In other words, the game is finally close to being statistically balanced... which I'm guessing is why you are whining now? Yeah because we can all play as well as MKP and MVP, obviously terran needs more nerfs since these guys can consistently win, terran must be OP This is literally the worst argument ever that is constantly proposed by low level players. "Only X players can play to the point that the game is balanced derp derp" Dude, if you're a T in diamond, your Z opponent in diamond isn't doing anything that much better than you. His unit control is probably about the same as yours. His macro probably about the same. If you're losing to any a-move deathball a la BL/infestor, learn to split. Really. Learn how to transition into Thor/Viking/Tank late game. It's not that hard, considering that your opponent WILL make just as many mistakes as you do. There's no imbalance at diamond level, or any level beyond high GM. There might be TvZ imbalance slightly in favor of Z late game, but I think it balances it with how strong Terran is before that. There most definitely is (imo) late game PvT/PvZ imbalance, but again, that doesn't affect anyone below a certain level. It's just disgusting to see TL flooded with perpetual balance whine when the whiners have so much room to still improve. We all have room to improve. Let the pros do the balance talk. I disagree. The game can't possibly be balanced at all levels in the game. But the truth right now is that protoss has the army that gains least with micro, and thus is the easiest to just a-move. This will result in protoss being easier to play in the lower levels. Likewise, if you right now as zerg simply take a quick third into whatever, I can promise you that you will propell right out of whatever league you're inn and straight into masters, regardless of how bad your micro and macro is. That said, what do you balance the game around? Obviously you can't balance it around silver players who does a ton of mistakes. The answer must then be to balance it around the players who don't do mistakes. But only MVP can play terran like he does, should that mean that every other terran should have an impossible time vs protoss in the lategame just because he's doing ok? (which they, btw, are having right now) I don't know the answer either btw. Just throwing it out there, its not so easy you make it out to be. I don't think it has the least to gain by being microed, but instead it is the best when not microed. When I watch PartinG, HerO, and other top level protoss players, I see the true potential of how strong a protoss army can be when microed by very talented players. I hate the argument that "we all can't play like MKP and MVP". Yes, you can't play like them, good thing you aren't playing against PartinG and Squirtle. If you did, then you do in fact have to play like MKP and MVP. There is a reason, afterall, that terrans do win games on the ladder. Most of them (>99.9% of them) are no where near the skill level of MKP and MVP but still somehow manage to get by. Protoss units are more effective then Terran Units with less micro though. Colossi , Archons , Zealots basically for example are pure A-move units there's not even really any micro possible with those units to make them more effective.
To underline your and Excludos point, protoss doesn't loose the same potential when skill decreases.
This is tbh the reason why terran has been getting nerfed all through WoL. People like to believe terran has always been OP and it was just so clearly OP at start of WoL. I would disagree with that(atleast to the extend that their OPness would have to be, after all those nerfs) and say rather that as the skill increased, terran players always got rewarded more than P&Z due to more micro potential of the race and therefore Blizzard has had to keep toning down terran.
For balance, if you don't offer all the races similar micro potential, and don't require similar amount of micro potential to play at your level, you will always need to be fiddling with the numbers as skill increases(until skill ceiling is reached).
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On May 27 2012 09:59 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 09:46 s3rp wrote:On May 27 2012 09:21 convention wrote:On May 27 2012 09:11 Excludos wrote:On May 27 2012 08:52 Flonomenalz wrote:On May 27 2012 08:24 teamhozac wrote:On May 27 2012 07:44 convention wrote:On May 27 2012 06:53 teamhozac wrote:On May 26 2012 05:31 Dalavita wrote:On May 26 2012 02:45 Durp wrote:
I can guarantee any terran player posting complaints here that you will not improve, nor will the balance of the game, by you typing your grievances here. However, play more and practice more, and your TvP will stabilize. Funny. This is exactly what terrans were telling zergs and protosses back in the day. You know what happened? Blizzard buffed them. They didn't learn to play at all. Based on Blizzards track record it's better to keep whining. Yeah but they only listen to zerg and protoss whine, not terran Yeah, they listened to the zerg and protoss, because when they were whining, the GSL was almost all terran. Every tournament was won by terran. The W/L ratios were massively in terran's favor. The reason they don't listen to terran whining right now is because W/L are about 50%, terrans win about 33% of the tournaments, and GSL has a very good racial distribution for the first time ever. In other words, the game is finally close to being statistically balanced... which I'm guessing is why you are whining now? Yeah because we can all play as well as MKP and MVP, obviously terran needs more nerfs since these guys can consistently win, terran must be OP This is literally the worst argument ever that is constantly proposed by low level players. "Only X players can play to the point that the game is balanced derp derp" Dude, if you're a T in diamond, your Z opponent in diamond isn't doing anything that much better than you. His unit control is probably about the same as yours. His macro probably about the same. If you're losing to any a-move deathball a la BL/infestor, learn to split. Really. Learn how to transition into Thor/Viking/Tank late game. It's not that hard, considering that your opponent WILL make just as many mistakes as you do. There's no imbalance at diamond level, or any level beyond high GM. There might be TvZ imbalance slightly in favor of Z late game, but I think it balances it with how strong Terran is before that. There most definitely is (imo) late game PvT/PvZ imbalance, but again, that doesn't affect anyone below a certain level. It's just disgusting to see TL flooded with perpetual balance whine when the whiners have so much room to still improve. We all have room to improve. Let the pros do the balance talk. I disagree. The game can't possibly be balanced at all levels in the game. But the truth right now is that protoss has the army that gains least with micro, and thus is the easiest to just a-move. This will result in protoss being easier to play in the lower levels. Likewise, if you right now as zerg simply take a quick third into whatever, I can promise you that you will propell right out of whatever league you're inn and straight into masters, regardless of how bad your micro and macro is. That said, what do you balance the game around? Obviously you can't balance it around silver players who does a ton of mistakes. The answer must then be to balance it around the players who don't do mistakes. But only MVP can play terran like he does, should that mean that every other terran should have an impossible time vs protoss in the lategame just because he's doing ok? (which they, btw, are having right now) I don't know the answer either btw. Just throwing it out there, its not so easy you make it out to be. I don't think it has the least to gain by being microed, but instead it is the best when not microed. When I watch PartinG, HerO, and other top level protoss players, I see the true potential of how strong a protoss army can be when microed by very talented players. I hate the argument that "we all can't play like MKP and MVP". Yes, you can't play like them, good thing you aren't playing against PartinG and Squirtle. If you did, then you do in fact have to play like MKP and MVP. There is a reason, afterall, that terrans do win games on the ladder. Most of them (>99.9% of them) are no where near the skill level of MKP and MVP but still somehow manage to get by. Protoss units are more effective then Terran Units with less micro though. Colossi , Archons , Zealots basically for example are pure A-move units there's not even really any micro possible with those units to make them more effective. To underline your and Excludos point, protoss doesn't loose the same potential when skill decreases. This is tbh the reason why terran has been getting nerfed all through WoL. People like to believe terran has always been OP and it was just so clearly OP at start of WoL. I would disagree with that(atleast to the extend that their OPness would have to be, after all those nerfs) and say rather that as the skill increased, terran players always got rewarded more than P&Z due to more micro potential of the race and therefore Blizzard has had to keep toning down terran. For balance, if you don't offer all the races similar micro potential, and don't require similar amount of micro potential to play at your level, you will always need to be fiddling with the numbers as skill increases(until skill ceiling is reached).
Agreed. While it's true that the game should absolutely be balanced at the top levels, it's also a good idea to establish similar skill ceilings so that the game is reasonably balanced at lower levels too.
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On May 27 2012 09:59 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 09:46 s3rp wrote:On May 27 2012 09:21 convention wrote:On May 27 2012 09:11 Excludos wrote:On May 27 2012 08:52 Flonomenalz wrote:On May 27 2012 08:24 teamhozac wrote:On May 27 2012 07:44 convention wrote:On May 27 2012 06:53 teamhozac wrote:On May 26 2012 05:31 Dalavita wrote:On May 26 2012 02:45 Durp wrote:
I can guarantee any terran player posting complaints here that you will not improve, nor will the balance of the game, by you typing your grievances here. However, play more and practice more, and your TvP will stabilize. Funny. This is exactly what terrans were telling zergs and protosses back in the day. You know what happened? Blizzard buffed them. They didn't learn to play at all. Based on Blizzards track record it's better to keep whining. Yeah but they only listen to zerg and protoss whine, not terran Yeah, they listened to the zerg and protoss, because when they were whining, the GSL was almost all terran. Every tournament was won by terran. The W/L ratios were massively in terran's favor. The reason they don't listen to terran whining right now is because W/L are about 50%, terrans win about 33% of the tournaments, and GSL has a very good racial distribution for the first time ever. In other words, the game is finally close to being statistically balanced... which I'm guessing is why you are whining now? Yeah because we can all play as well as MKP and MVP, obviously terran needs more nerfs since these guys can consistently win, terran must be OP This is literally the worst argument ever that is constantly proposed by low level players. "Only X players can play to the point that the game is balanced derp derp" Dude, if you're a T in diamond, your Z opponent in diamond isn't doing anything that much better than you. His unit control is probably about the same as yours. His macro probably about the same. If you're losing to any a-move deathball a la BL/infestor, learn to split. Really. Learn how to transition into Thor/Viking/Tank late game. It's not that hard, considering that your opponent WILL make just as many mistakes as you do. There's no imbalance at diamond level, or any level beyond high GM. There might be TvZ imbalance slightly in favor of Z late game, but I think it balances it with how strong Terran is before that. There most definitely is (imo) late game PvT/PvZ imbalance, but again, that doesn't affect anyone below a certain level. It's just disgusting to see TL flooded with perpetual balance whine when the whiners have so much room to still improve. We all have room to improve. Let the pros do the balance talk. I disagree. The game can't possibly be balanced at all levels in the game. But the truth right now is that protoss has the army that gains least with micro, and thus is the easiest to just a-move. This will result in protoss being easier to play in the lower levels. Likewise, if you right now as zerg simply take a quick third into whatever, I can promise you that you will propell right out of whatever league you're inn and straight into masters, regardless of how bad your micro and macro is. That said, what do you balance the game around? Obviously you can't balance it around silver players who does a ton of mistakes. The answer must then be to balance it around the players who don't do mistakes. But only MVP can play terran like he does, should that mean that every other terran should have an impossible time vs protoss in the lategame just because he's doing ok? (which they, btw, are having right now) I don't know the answer either btw. Just throwing it out there, its not so easy you make it out to be. I don't think it has the least to gain by being microed, but instead it is the best when not microed. When I watch PartinG, HerO, and other top level protoss players, I see the true potential of how strong a protoss army can be when microed by very talented players. I hate the argument that "we all can't play like MKP and MVP". Yes, you can't play like them, good thing you aren't playing against PartinG and Squirtle. If you did, then you do in fact have to play like MKP and MVP. There is a reason, afterall, that terrans do win games on the ladder. Most of them (>99.9% of them) are no where near the skill level of MKP and MVP but still somehow manage to get by. Protoss units are more effective then Terran Units with less micro though. Colossi , Archons , Zealots basically for example are pure A-move units there's not even really any micro possible with those units to make them more effective. To underline your and Excludos point, protoss doesn't loose the same potential when skill decreases. This is tbh the reason why terran has been getting nerfed all through WoL. People like to believe terran has always been OP and it was just so clearly OP at start of WoL. I would disagree with that(atleast to the extend that their OPness would have to be, after all those nerfs) and say rather that as the skill increased, terran players always got rewarded more than P&Z due to more micro potential of the race and therefore Blizzard has had to keep toning down terran. For balance, if you don't offer all the races similar micro potential, and don't require similar amount of micro potential to play at your level, you will always need to be fiddling with the numbers as skill increases(until skill ceiling is reached).
This x1000
This is the point so many people are missing, including Blizzard. You can quote tournament statistics all you want, and claim Terran is the best race, and I wouldn't disagree with you. Unfortunately, many and more players do not have the ability to take advantage of the highly rewarding micro capability of the Terran race, leaving them stumped when it comes to ridiculous late game TvZ and TvP engagements, which require insane micro normally. While I agree the game should be balanced at the highest level, leaving 99% of the community, or at least 99% of Terran behind is just plain wrong. As someone stated earlier, the skill ceiling should be the same level throughout all leagues, unfortunately it is not.
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On May 27 2012 19:49 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 09:59 Zarahtra wrote:On May 27 2012 09:46 s3rp wrote:On May 27 2012 09:21 convention wrote:On May 27 2012 09:11 Excludos wrote:On May 27 2012 08:52 Flonomenalz wrote:On May 27 2012 08:24 teamhozac wrote:On May 27 2012 07:44 convention wrote:On May 27 2012 06:53 teamhozac wrote:On May 26 2012 05:31 Dalavita wrote:
[quote]
Funny. This is exactly what terrans were telling zergs and protosses back in the day. You know what happened? Blizzard buffed them. They didn't learn to play at all.
Based on Blizzards track record it's better to keep whining. Yeah but they only listen to zerg and protoss whine, not terran Yeah, they listened to the zerg and protoss, because when they were whining, the GSL was almost all terran. Every tournament was won by terran. The W/L ratios were massively in terran's favor. The reason they don't listen to terran whining right now is because W/L are about 50%, terrans win about 33% of the tournaments, and GSL has a very good racial distribution for the first time ever. In other words, the game is finally close to being statistically balanced... which I'm guessing is why you are whining now? Yeah because we can all play as well as MKP and MVP, obviously terran needs more nerfs since these guys can consistently win, terran must be OP This is literally the worst argument ever that is constantly proposed by low level players. "Only X players can play to the point that the game is balanced derp derp" Dude, if you're a T in diamond, your Z opponent in diamond isn't doing anything that much better than you. His unit control is probably about the same as yours. His macro probably about the same. If you're losing to any a-move deathball a la BL/infestor, learn to split. Really. Learn how to transition into Thor/Viking/Tank late game. It's not that hard, considering that your opponent WILL make just as many mistakes as you do. There's no imbalance at diamond level, or any level beyond high GM. There might be TvZ imbalance slightly in favor of Z late game, but I think it balances it with how strong Terran is before that. There most definitely is (imo) late game PvT/PvZ imbalance, but again, that doesn't affect anyone below a certain level. It's just disgusting to see TL flooded with perpetual balance whine when the whiners have so much room to still improve. We all have room to improve. Let the pros do the balance talk. I disagree. The game can't possibly be balanced at all levels in the game. But the truth right now is that protoss has the army that gains least with micro, and thus is the easiest to just a-move. This will result in protoss being easier to play in the lower levels. Likewise, if you right now as zerg simply take a quick third into whatever, I can promise you that you will propell right out of whatever league you're inn and straight into masters, regardless of how bad your micro and macro is. That said, what do you balance the game around? Obviously you can't balance it around silver players who does a ton of mistakes. The answer must then be to balance it around the players who don't do mistakes. But only MVP can play terran like he does, should that mean that every other terran should have an impossible time vs protoss in the lategame just because he's doing ok? (which they, btw, are having right now) I don't know the answer either btw. Just throwing it out there, its not so easy you make it out to be. I don't think it has the least to gain by being microed, but instead it is the best when not microed. When I watch PartinG, HerO, and other top level protoss players, I see the true potential of how strong a protoss army can be when microed by very talented players. I hate the argument that "we all can't play like MKP and MVP". Yes, you can't play like them, good thing you aren't playing against PartinG and Squirtle. If you did, then you do in fact have to play like MKP and MVP. There is a reason, afterall, that terrans do win games on the ladder. Most of them (>99.9% of them) are no where near the skill level of MKP and MVP but still somehow manage to get by. Protoss units are more effective then Terran Units with less micro though. Colossi , Archons , Zealots basically for example are pure A-move units there's not even really any micro possible with those units to make them more effective. To underline your and Excludos point, protoss doesn't loose the same potential when skill decreases. This is tbh the reason why terran has been getting nerfed all through WoL. People like to believe terran has always been OP and it was just so clearly OP at start of WoL. I would disagree with that(atleast to the extend that their OPness would have to be, after all those nerfs) and say rather that as the skill increased, terran players always got rewarded more than P&Z due to more micro potential of the race and therefore Blizzard has had to keep toning down terran. For balance, if you don't offer all the races similar micro potential, and don't require similar amount of micro potential to play at your level, you will always need to be fiddling with the numbers as skill increases(until skill ceiling is reached). This x1000 This is the point so many people are missing, including Blizzard. You can quote tournament statistics all you want, and claim Terran is the best race, and I wouldn't disagree with you. Unfortunately, many and more players do not have the ability to take advantage of the highly rewarding micro capability of the Terran race, leaving them stumped when it comes to ridiculous late game TvZ and TvP engagements, which require insane micro normally. While I agree the game should be balanced at the highest level, leaving 99% of the community, or at least 99% of Terran behind is just plain wrong. As someone stated earlier, the skill ceiling should be the same level throughout all leagues, unfortunately it is not.
Dude, u can't balance a game like this. U can't make a game where skill ceiling is at the same level through ALL leagues... that's simply impossible!
It's a thing that is not just like this in computergames, it's a thing that is in sports, in economies... everywhere like this. It's totally nonsense what u say. As long as u as a player are the weakest part of your race they dont need to improve the race, u are the one that needs to improve. An engine is always just as good as his slowest and weakest part. And the fact that terran race has amazing rewards if you are halfway decent (i'm not talking about really good!) u can get into masters or GM easily... u dont have to have amazingly high APM (watch at players like GoODy). Terran race got enough advantages other races whine for, stuff like MULEs, Dropships that heal units, Stim... ecetera.
But this isn't a whine post, what i try to tell u is that u should work on yourself and not call for stronger terran race. Its already the strongest race, not only on tournaments. If u look at Win-Ratio charts from the very beginning until now (roughly 1 1/2 years now), u will notice that terran is the race that never really struggled and like 90 % of the time had the biggest win ratio in all matchups.. and i'm not only talking about tournaments, but ladder too.
Zerg had their biggest down at the beginning of SC2, they just weren't able to handle deathballs for example. But it wasnt because of balance, they just played really bad and hadnt figured out how to handle it. Then Terrans came with Hellion Openers and Zerg struggled again... now Zerg is on a rise for i think the first time yet. There were times where a Nestea won something but honestly he was the only zerg in that time that hadn't had problems. It was more because of his good reads and preparations for the matchups than because of zerg race. And then there come the protoss, they had like Zerg maaaany ups and downs and never really established a place as the strongest race. You can say MC made it look like it for a while but all he did there was doing timing pushes and all-ins. If a race is forced to all-in to win, something is broken, and it didnt took long until players figured out how to hold his pushes. last months he came back and didnt play too shaby because he created some new 2 base pushes/all-ins.
If you look at ZvP right now its pretty sad for protoss at the moment. pvT is kinda even if a good terran and protoss plays against each other...
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I already forgot what i really wanted to say but all in all u shouldnt ask blizzard to make the game easier for you. Its nonsense... because if they do it u just create a league shift (everybody climbs up one league) for nothing but you personel feeling that u are one league higher now (like everybody is then - so u virtually are at the same lvl u was before).
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They shouldn't make the game easier for low level terrans, they should make it harder for protoss.
And yes, you need low level balance, otherwise people won't play and if no one plays no one watches.
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LGIMMVP "toss op TT" , that settles it guys, flash has said it and now mvp has said it too, end of discussion, moving on. =O
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On May 27 2012 20:14 ULuMuGuLu wrote:
I already forgot what i really wanted to say but all in all u shouldnt ask blizzard to make the game easier for you. Its nonsense... because if they do it u just create a league shift (everybody climbs up one league) for nothing but you personel feeling that u are one league higher now (like everybody is then - so u virtually are at the same lvl u was before).
Not once did I say I wanted Blizzard to make the game easier for me, but perhaps making it more difficult for P or Z (STOP NERFING TERRAN/BUFFING UNNECESSARY CRAP FOR P AND Z), raise their skill ceiling ffs, remove auto cast on chargelots, something. As it stands now there is a pretty large discrepancy between requirements on unit control and micro potential.
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On May 27 2012 20:12 ULuMuGuLu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 19:49 teamhozac wrote:On May 27 2012 09:59 Zarahtra wrote:On May 27 2012 09:46 s3rp wrote:On May 27 2012 09:21 convention wrote:On May 27 2012 09:11 Excludos wrote:On May 27 2012 08:52 Flonomenalz wrote:On May 27 2012 08:24 teamhozac wrote:On May 27 2012 07:44 convention wrote:On May 27 2012 06:53 teamhozac wrote:
[quote]
Yeah but they only listen to zerg and protoss whine, not terran Yeah, they listened to the zerg and protoss, because when they were whining, the GSL was almost all terran. Every tournament was won by terran. The W/L ratios were massively in terran's favor. The reason they don't listen to terran whining right now is because W/L are about 50%, terrans win about 33% of the tournaments, and GSL has a very good racial distribution for the first time ever. In other words, the game is finally close to being statistically balanced... which I'm guessing is why you are whining now? Yeah because we can all play as well as MKP and MVP, obviously terran needs more nerfs since these guys can consistently win, terran must be OP This is literally the worst argument ever that is constantly proposed by low level players. "Only X players can play to the point that the game is balanced derp derp" Dude, if you're a T in diamond, your Z opponent in diamond isn't doing anything that much better than you. His unit control is probably about the same as yours. His macro probably about the same. If you're losing to any a-move deathball a la BL/infestor, learn to split. Really. Learn how to transition into Thor/Viking/Tank late game. It's not that hard, considering that your opponent WILL make just as many mistakes as you do. There's no imbalance at diamond level, or any level beyond high GM. There might be TvZ imbalance slightly in favor of Z late game, but I think it balances it with how strong Terran is before that. There most definitely is (imo) late game PvT/PvZ imbalance, but again, that doesn't affect anyone below a certain level. It's just disgusting to see TL flooded with perpetual balance whine when the whiners have so much room to still improve. We all have room to improve. Let the pros do the balance talk. I disagree. The game can't possibly be balanced at all levels in the game. But the truth right now is that protoss has the army that gains least with micro, and thus is the easiest to just a-move. This will result in protoss being easier to play in the lower levels. Likewise, if you right now as zerg simply take a quick third into whatever, I can promise you that you will propell right out of whatever league you're inn and straight into masters, regardless of how bad your micro and macro is. That said, what do you balance the game around? Obviously you can't balance it around silver players who does a ton of mistakes. The answer must then be to balance it around the players who don't do mistakes. But only MVP can play terran like he does, should that mean that every other terran should have an impossible time vs protoss in the lategame just because he's doing ok? (which they, btw, are having right now) I don't know the answer either btw. Just throwing it out there, its not so easy you make it out to be. I don't think it has the least to gain by being microed, but instead it is the best when not microed. When I watch PartinG, HerO, and other top level protoss players, I see the true potential of how strong a protoss army can be when microed by very talented players. I hate the argument that "we all can't play like MKP and MVP". Yes, you can't play like them, good thing you aren't playing against PartinG and Squirtle. If you did, then you do in fact have to play like MKP and MVP. There is a reason, afterall, that terrans do win games on the ladder. Most of them (>99.9% of them) are no where near the skill level of MKP and MVP but still somehow manage to get by. Protoss units are more effective then Terran Units with less micro though. Colossi , Archons , Zealots basically for example are pure A-move units there's not even really any micro possible with those units to make them more effective. To underline your and Excludos point, protoss doesn't loose the same potential when skill decreases. This is tbh the reason why terran has been getting nerfed all through WoL. People like to believe terran has always been OP and it was just so clearly OP at start of WoL. I would disagree with that(atleast to the extend that their OPness would have to be, after all those nerfs) and say rather that as the skill increased, terran players always got rewarded more than P&Z due to more micro potential of the race and therefore Blizzard has had to keep toning down terran. For balance, if you don't offer all the races similar micro potential, and don't require similar amount of micro potential to play at your level, you will always need to be fiddling with the numbers as skill increases(until skill ceiling is reached). This x1000 This is the point so many people are missing, including Blizzard. You can quote tournament statistics all you want, and claim Terran is the best race, and I wouldn't disagree with you. Unfortunately, many and more players do not have the ability to take advantage of the highly rewarding micro capability of the Terran race, leaving them stumped when it comes to ridiculous late game TvZ and TvP engagements, which require insane micro normally. While I agree the game should be balanced at the highest level, leaving 99% of the community, or at least 99% of Terran behind is just plain wrong. As someone stated earlier, the skill ceiling should be the same level throughout all leagues, unfortunately it is not. Dude, u can't balance a game like this. U can't make a game where skill ceiling is at the same level through ALL leagues... that's simply impossible! It's a thing that is not just like this in computergames, it's a thing that is in sports, in economies... everywhere like this. It's totally nonsense what u say. As long as u as a player are the weakest part of your race they dont need to improve the race, u are the one that needs to improve. An engine is always just as good as his slowest and weakest part. And the fact that terran race has amazing rewards if you are halfway decent (i'm not talking about really good!) u can get into masters or GM easily... u dont have to have amazingly high APM (watch at players like GoODy). Terran race got enough advantages other races whine for, stuff like MULEs, Dropships that heal units, Stim... ecetera. But this isn't a whine post, what i try to tell u is that u should work on yourself and not call for stronger terran race. Its already the strongest race, not only on tournaments. If u look at Win-Ratio charts from the very beginning until now (roughly 1 1/2 years now), u will notice that terran is the race that never really struggled and like 90 % of the time had the biggest win ratio in all matchups.. and i'm not only talking about tournaments, but ladder too. Zerg had their biggest down at the beginning of SC2, they just weren't able to handle deathballs for example. But it wasnt because of balance, they just played really bad and hadnt figured out how to handle it. Then Terrans came with Hellion Openers and Zerg struggled again... now Zerg is on a rise for i think the first time yet. There were times where a Nestea won something but honestly he was the only zerg in that time that hadn't had problems. It was more because of his good reads and preparations for the matchups than because of zerg race. And then there come the protoss, they had like Zerg maaaany ups and downs and never really established a place as the strongest race. You can say MC made it look like it for a while but all he did there was doing timing pushes and all-ins. If a race is forced to all-in to win, something is broken, and it didnt took long until players figured out how to hold his pushes. last months he came back and didnt play too shaby because he created some new 2 base pushes/all-ins. If you look at ZvP right now its pretty sad for protoss at the moment. pvT is kinda even if a good terran and protoss plays against each other...
Lol, poor Zerg. Oh no blue flame hellions! Nerf. Oh no hellions denying creep! Queen Buff. Oh no we dont know whats coming out of Terran base! Overlord speed buff! Oh no we cant handle 11/11 rushes! Rax build time increased, bunker salvage nerf, bunker build time increased. Oh no ghosts are pretty good against Z late game units! Ghost snipe cut in half... The list goes on, but simply saying "Zerg struggled and learned how to play" is quite ridiculous. Must be nice to have a silver platter...
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As a protoss player, I agree with some of the terrans here. I'd love it if blizzard nerfed some protoss units and gave me a tier 1/1.5 unit that beneftis greatly from micro. Protoss armies being too "a-movey" has its downsides, too. If you're behind, you just don't have the potential terran has to come back with good micro. The only possibilites are by engaging at a better angle. However, that only works if your terran opponent is willing to engage at a bad location.
Hopefully HotS will introduce such a unit.
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EPT
