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On May 17 2012 04:07 TheSubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 02:29 teamhozac wrote:On May 15 2012 06:09 mrjpark wrote:On May 13 2012 06:52 s3rp wrote:On May 13 2012 06:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 13 2012 00:41 s3rp wrote:On May 13 2012 00:29 Ballistixz wrote:On May 12 2012 23:35 BrandFilt wrote:
I hate how zerg think they have a right to over drone and maybe even get a third without making units. And Blizzard balancing "team" seem to think so as well. Where's my free 14CC without getting baneling, roach all-in:ed and die? Well, not that I would care for it that much anyway seeing as the instant reaction from my opponent would be to drone even harder and getting more bases. ....... make a wall and tanks and ur safe to do w/e the hell u want. early- early mid game the zerg cant do anything to terran without it being a stupidly bad all in. and mid-mid game the best thing u can do against terran is harass with mutas. terran is a insanely turtle heavy race that can do pretty much anything they want while turtling up. A wall and tanks is different than not making any unit other than a few Queens and just pumping workers . A) Zerg gets three bases and masses Queens and Drones. or B) Zerg takes gas to build Roaches and Banelings. Pick one, not both. For what would you need Banelings before the Terran has Stim you can't pressure with Stimless Bio against speedlings . Roaches are also only needed if the Terran really invests in Helions. ( 10+ at least ) . With the recent patch the Zerg is almost free to saturate 2 Bases before needing to build any army. And since there's no real reliable way to stop creepspread anymore its also harder to delay the third. And what the guy meant was if as a Terran you 14 CC very easy to Zerg All-Ins since you slow down your tech sooooo much. While the Zerg now gets it for free and can build enough Drones for 3 Bases if they chose to without any real risk unless they play without any defense. And there was the problem. There was no way for Zerg to tell how many hellions the Terran had hidden in his base if the Terran wanted to deny that information. The only time Zerg ovie scouts actually get that useful information is when the Terran is careless/lazy about his scout denial. New overlord speed helps with this, but 2 marines still kill that ovie real quick. Blizzard realized Zerg needed a little padding, considering how volatile the early game can be, and this queen buff was their answer. For instance, NesTea would not have auto-lost the first game against Keen in Code A just because Keen placed his factory correctly. Theres this unit called a mutalisk, and Terran has no way of knowing how many might be hatched at any moment, that unit can fly and is one of the fastest units in the game, but you dont seeing Terran complaining about them You have scans and standard mutalisk timing is ~10 minutes, and if you know what you're doing you have Zerg gas timings as a bench mark too. Plus its not an auto win. Hardly the same as seeing a bunker, 2 supply depots, and a marine and having to determine whether or not you're facing multiple rax, banshees, 2 fact hellion, or a normal hellion expand. Or try playing vs a hellion exand and determine if you're facing a quick 3rd CC, 2 base marine tank timing or marauder hellion all in. Also Terrans did complain about mutas... for the longest time ...so your post is irrelevant on all counts.
How is any of what you said relevant? He was complaining about hellions running into his base and not being able to scout it, I was comparing them to mutalisks showing up in your mineral line and not being able to scout it. Scans you say? Yeah thats 270 minerals down the toilet, and if youre a smart zergy player you will put your spire in a position where it wont get scanned. Not to mention, zerg players can throw up a spire and not even make a single mutalisk and have it be worth the cost due to Terran throwing up a bunch of missile turrets. And again, mutalisks fly so its not like we can just wall off against them like zerg can against hellions
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On May 17 2012 05:12 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 05:02 BeeNu wrote:On May 17 2012 02:27 teamhozac wrote:On May 15 2012 06:09 mrjpark wrote:On May 13 2012 06:52 s3rp wrote:On May 13 2012 06:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 13 2012 00:41 s3rp wrote:On May 13 2012 00:29 Ballistixz wrote:On May 12 2012 23:35 BrandFilt wrote:
I hate how zerg think they have a right to over drone and maybe even get a third without making units. And Blizzard balancing "team" seem to think so as well. Where's my free 14CC without getting baneling, roach all-in:ed and die? Well, not that I would care for it that much anyway seeing as the instant reaction from my opponent would be to drone even harder and getting more bases. ....... make a wall and tanks and ur safe to do w/e the hell u want. early- early mid game the zerg cant do anything to terran without it being a stupidly bad all in. and mid-mid game the best thing u can do against terran is harass with mutas. terran is a insanely turtle heavy race that can do pretty much anything they want while turtling up. A wall and tanks is different than not making any unit other than a few Queens and just pumping workers . A) Zerg gets three bases and masses Queens and Drones. or B) Zerg takes gas to build Roaches and Banelings. Pick one, not both. For what would you need Banelings before the Terran has Stim you can't pressure with Stimless Bio against speedlings . Roaches are also only needed if the Terran really invests in Helions. ( 10+ at least ) . With the recent patch the Zerg is almost free to saturate 2 Bases before needing to build any army. And since there's no real reliable way to stop creepspread anymore its also harder to delay the third. And what the guy meant was if as a Terran you 14 CC very easy to Zerg All-Ins since you slow down your tech sooooo much. While the Zerg now gets it for free and can build enough Drones for 3 Bases if they chose to without any real risk unless they play without any defense. And there was the problem. There was no way for Zerg to tell how many hellions the Terran had hidden in his base if the Terran wanted to deny that information. The only time Zerg ovie scouts actually get that useful information is when the Terran is careless/lazy about his scout denial. New overlord speed helps with this, but 2 marines still kill that ovie real quick. Blizzard realized Zerg needed a little padding, considering how volatile the early game can be, and this queen buff was their answer. For instance, NesTea would not have auto-lost the first game against Keen in Code A just because Keen placed his factory correctly. So you want better scouting AND better defense? Really? How about a win button that you can push anytime you decide you want to win? The funny part is that better scouting and defense doesnt equate to a "i win button", it's more like a "now I don't auto-lose for reasons beyond my control button". If you don't rely on gimmicks to win this patch shouldn't give you too much trouble. The point isn't that gimmicks should be standard, but that they should be possible. I know players on the ladder hate losing to "stupid shit" but the fact is that having an all-in is crucial to winning BoXs. The fact that it's next to impossible to hide tech against Zerg now means that all-ins become significantly harder to pull off, which in turn means that Zerg players can play greedier, stagnating the matchup. All-ins are good for this game, so long as they're in moderation.
It's still not very hard to hide tech from a zerg, it just requires a bit more effort on your part. Just find out where the zerg is positioning his overlords and set up a couple marines to snipe it down when it tries to scout, honestly it's not that hard.
Have you ever tried all-inning against a Terran as a Zerg? It takes effort, whatever all-in you do you have to hope the terran doesn't scan your tech and you also have to get an overlord scout off in their base to know if the all-in you're planning is actually going to work if if they will be able to counter it, unless you're just a bad player who blindly all-ins and flips a coin.
Fortunately for us Zergs, Terran player are still delusional and think scans cost minerals and most of em refuse to ever use them for anything but clearing creep.
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On May 17 2012 05:13 IPA wrote:
Pretty much WILD overreacting from everyone outside GM. These changes might make things difficult if you're doing everything else at a top level. If you're below extreme high masters, you have much, much, much bigger things to worry about that are causing your losses -- it ain't the OMG SUPERPOWER queen or the ovie speed.
Thats great that you feel that way, must be convenient to live on another planet. Every single balance change affects every single person playing starcraft. Quens having longer range affects every game of starcraft, not just in GM. The really baffling thing is that these changes were not needed at all. Most likely blizzard is trying to boost zerg win ratio to get more money for HotS, only thing is, theyre totally alienating the terran fan base. Hope you guys enjoy your ZvZ and PvZ because Terran will probably make up less than 10% of the ladder soon
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On May 17 2012 05:18 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 05:12 Shiori wrote:On May 17 2012 05:02 BeeNu wrote:On May 17 2012 02:27 teamhozac wrote:On May 15 2012 06:09 mrjpark wrote:On May 13 2012 06:52 s3rp wrote:On May 13 2012 06:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 13 2012 00:41 s3rp wrote:On May 13 2012 00:29 Ballistixz wrote:On May 12 2012 23:35 BrandFilt wrote:
I hate how zerg think they have a right to over drone and maybe even get a third without making units. And Blizzard balancing "team" seem to think so as well. Where's my free 14CC without getting baneling, roach all-in:ed and die? Well, not that I would care for it that much anyway seeing as the instant reaction from my opponent would be to drone even harder and getting more bases. ....... make a wall and tanks and ur safe to do w/e the hell u want. early- early mid game the zerg cant do anything to terran without it being a stupidly bad all in. and mid-mid game the best thing u can do against terran is harass with mutas. terran is a insanely turtle heavy race that can do pretty much anything they want while turtling up. A wall and tanks is different than not making any unit other than a few Queens and just pumping workers . A) Zerg gets three bases and masses Queens and Drones. or B) Zerg takes gas to build Roaches and Banelings. Pick one, not both. For what would you need Banelings before the Terran has Stim you can't pressure with Stimless Bio against speedlings . Roaches are also only needed if the Terran really invests in Helions. ( 10+ at least ) . With the recent patch the Zerg is almost free to saturate 2 Bases before needing to build any army. And since there's no real reliable way to stop creepspread anymore its also harder to delay the third. And what the guy meant was if as a Terran you 14 CC very easy to Zerg All-Ins since you slow down your tech sooooo much. While the Zerg now gets it for free and can build enough Drones for 3 Bases if they chose to without any real risk unless they play without any defense. And there was the problem. There was no way for Zerg to tell how many hellions the Terran had hidden in his base if the Terran wanted to deny that information. The only time Zerg ovie scouts actually get that useful information is when the Terran is careless/lazy about his scout denial. New overlord speed helps with this, but 2 marines still kill that ovie real quick. Blizzard realized Zerg needed a little padding, considering how volatile the early game can be, and this queen buff was their answer. For instance, NesTea would not have auto-lost the first game against Keen in Code A just because Keen placed his factory correctly. So you want better scouting AND better defense? Really? How about a win button that you can push anytime you decide you want to win? The funny part is that better scouting and defense doesnt equate to a "i win button", it's more like a "now I don't auto-lose for reasons beyond my control button". If you don't rely on gimmicks to win this patch shouldn't give you too much trouble. The point isn't that gimmicks should be standard, but that they should be possible. I know players on the ladder hate losing to "stupid shit" but the fact is that having an all-in is crucial to winning BoXs. The fact that it's next to impossible to hide tech against Zerg now means that all-ins become significantly harder to pull off, which in turn means that Zerg players can play greedier, stagnating the matchup. All-ins are good for this game, so long as they're in moderation. It's still not very hard to hide tech from a zerg, it just requires a bit more effort on your part. Just find out where the zerg is positioning his overlords and set up a couple marines to snipe it down when it tries to scout, honestly it's not that hard. Have you ever tried all-inning against a Terran as a Zerg? It takes effort, whatever all-in you do you have to hope the terran doesn't scan your tech and you also have to get an overlord scout off in their base to know if the all-in you're planning is actually going to work if if they will be able to counter it, unless you're just a bad player who blindly all-ins and flips a coin. Fortunately for us Zergs, Terran player are still delusional and think scans cost minerals and most of em refuse to ever use them for anything but clearing creep.
How on earth do you find out where his overlord positioning is? Aside from getting vikings/medevacs its basically impossible. And at what game time does a starport even finish? Basically any early game rush is nullified by this patch, dumb da dumb da dumb
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On May 17 2012 05:18 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 05:12 Shiori wrote:On May 17 2012 05:02 BeeNu wrote:On May 17 2012 02:27 teamhozac wrote:On May 15 2012 06:09 mrjpark wrote:On May 13 2012 06:52 s3rp wrote:On May 13 2012 06:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 13 2012 00:41 s3rp wrote:On May 13 2012 00:29 Ballistixz wrote:On May 12 2012 23:35 BrandFilt wrote:
I hate how zerg think they have a right to over drone and maybe even get a third without making units. And Blizzard balancing "team" seem to think so as well. Where's my free 14CC without getting baneling, roach all-in:ed and die? Well, not that I would care for it that much anyway seeing as the instant reaction from my opponent would be to drone even harder and getting more bases. ....... make a wall and tanks and ur safe to do w/e the hell u want. early- early mid game the zerg cant do anything to terran without it being a stupidly bad all in. and mid-mid game the best thing u can do against terran is harass with mutas. terran is a insanely turtle heavy race that can do pretty much anything they want while turtling up. A wall and tanks is different than not making any unit other than a few Queens and just pumping workers . A) Zerg gets three bases and masses Queens and Drones. or B) Zerg takes gas to build Roaches and Banelings. Pick one, not both. For what would you need Banelings before the Terran has Stim you can't pressure with Stimless Bio against speedlings . Roaches are also only needed if the Terran really invests in Helions. ( 10+ at least ) . With the recent patch the Zerg is almost free to saturate 2 Bases before needing to build any army. And since there's no real reliable way to stop creepspread anymore its also harder to delay the third. And what the guy meant was if as a Terran you 14 CC very easy to Zerg All-Ins since you slow down your tech sooooo much. While the Zerg now gets it for free and can build enough Drones for 3 Bases if they chose to without any real risk unless they play without any defense. And there was the problem. There was no way for Zerg to tell how many hellions the Terran had hidden in his base if the Terran wanted to deny that information. The only time Zerg ovie scouts actually get that useful information is when the Terran is careless/lazy about his scout denial. New overlord speed helps with this, but 2 marines still kill that ovie real quick. Blizzard realized Zerg needed a little padding, considering how volatile the early game can be, and this queen buff was their answer. For instance, NesTea would not have auto-lost the first game against Keen in Code A just because Keen placed his factory correctly. So you want better scouting AND better defense? Really? How about a win button that you can push anytime you decide you want to win? The funny part is that better scouting and defense doesnt equate to a "i win button", it's more like a "now I don't auto-lose for reasons beyond my control button". If you don't rely on gimmicks to win this patch shouldn't give you too much trouble. The point isn't that gimmicks should be standard, but that they should be possible. I know players on the ladder hate losing to "stupid shit" but the fact is that having an all-in is crucial to winning BoXs. The fact that it's next to impossible to hide tech against Zerg now means that all-ins become significantly harder to pull off, which in turn means that Zerg players can play greedier, stagnating the matchup. All-ins are good for this game, so long as they're in moderation. It's still not very hard to hide tech from a zerg, it just requires a bit more effort on your part. Just find out where the zerg is positioning his overlords and set up a couple marines to snipe it down when it tries to scout, honestly it's not that hard. Have you ever tried all-inning against a Terran as a Zerg? It takes effort, whatever all-in you do you have to hope the terran doesn't scan your tech and you also have to get an overlord scout off in their base to know if the all-in you're planning is actually going to work if if they will be able to counter it, unless you're just a bad player who blindly all-ins and flips a coin. Fortunately for us Zergs, Terran player are still delusional and think scans cost minerals and most of em refuse to ever use them for anything but clearing creep.
Have you ever tried all-inning against Zerg as Protoss off a FFE? Already you had to Chrono out 2 Stalkers and position them to catch Overlords, but now even that isn't enough.
Even DRG seems to be dissatisfied with the change, because he said it does nothing for high level play and only helps out weaker players.
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On May 17 2012 05:24 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 05:13 IPA wrote:
Pretty much WILD overreacting from everyone outside GM. These changes might make things difficult if you're doing everything else at a top level. If you're below extreme high masters, you have much, much, much bigger things to worry about that are causing your losses -- it ain't the OMG SUPERPOWER queen or the ovie speed.
Thats great that you feel that way, must be convenient to live on another planet. Every single balance change affects every single person playing starcraft. Quens having longer range affects every game of starcraft, not just in GM. The really baffling thing is that these changes were not needed at all. Most likely blizzard is trying to boost zerg win ratio to get more money for HotS, only thing is, theyre totally alienating the terran fan base. Hope you guys enjoy your ZvZ and PvZ because Terran will probably make up less than 10% of the ladder soon
Totally bro -- the queen's additional range is what is holding you and the multitudes of diamond-to-mud leaguers from achieving your ranked goals.
Upload a replay and allow me to pick it apart. I'll do it without mentioning the queen once. Cheers.
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On May 17 2012 05:27 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 05:18 BeeNu wrote:On May 17 2012 05:12 Shiori wrote:On May 17 2012 05:02 BeeNu wrote:On May 17 2012 02:27 teamhozac wrote:On May 15 2012 06:09 mrjpark wrote:On May 13 2012 06:52 s3rp wrote:On May 13 2012 06:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 13 2012 00:41 s3rp wrote:On May 13 2012 00:29 Ballistixz wrote:
[quote]
.......
make a wall and tanks and ur safe to do w/e the hell u want. early- early mid game the zerg cant do anything to terran without it being a stupidly bad all in. and mid-mid game the best thing u can do against terran is harass with mutas. terran is a insanely turtle heavy race that can do pretty much anything they want while turtling up. A wall and tanks is different than not making any unit other than a few Queens and just pumping workers . A) Zerg gets three bases and masses Queens and Drones. or B) Zerg takes gas to build Roaches and Banelings. Pick one, not both. For what would you need Banelings before the Terran has Stim you can't pressure with Stimless Bio against speedlings . Roaches are also only needed if the Terran really invests in Helions. ( 10+ at least ) . With the recent patch the Zerg is almost free to saturate 2 Bases before needing to build any army. And since there's no real reliable way to stop creepspread anymore its also harder to delay the third. And what the guy meant was if as a Terran you 14 CC very easy to Zerg All-Ins since you slow down your tech sooooo much. While the Zerg now gets it for free and can build enough Drones for 3 Bases if they chose to without any real risk unless they play without any defense. And there was the problem. There was no way for Zerg to tell how many hellions the Terran had hidden in his base if the Terran wanted to deny that information. The only time Zerg ovie scouts actually get that useful information is when the Terran is careless/lazy about his scout denial. New overlord speed helps with this, but 2 marines still kill that ovie real quick. Blizzard realized Zerg needed a little padding, considering how volatile the early game can be, and this queen buff was their answer. For instance, NesTea would not have auto-lost the first game against Keen in Code A just because Keen placed his factory correctly. So you want better scouting AND better defense? Really? How about a win button that you can push anytime you decide you want to win? The funny part is that better scouting and defense doesnt equate to a "i win button", it's more like a "now I don't auto-lose for reasons beyond my control button". If you don't rely on gimmicks to win this patch shouldn't give you too much trouble. The point isn't that gimmicks should be standard, but that they should be possible. I know players on the ladder hate losing to "stupid shit" but the fact is that having an all-in is crucial to winning BoXs. The fact that it's next to impossible to hide tech against Zerg now means that all-ins become significantly harder to pull off, which in turn means that Zerg players can play greedier, stagnating the matchup. All-ins are good for this game, so long as they're in moderation. It's still not very hard to hide tech from a zerg, it just requires a bit more effort on your part. Just find out where the zerg is positioning his overlords and set up a couple marines to snipe it down when it tries to scout, honestly it's not that hard. Have you ever tried all-inning against a Terran as a Zerg? It takes effort, whatever all-in you do you have to hope the terran doesn't scan your tech and you also have to get an overlord scout off in their base to know if the all-in you're planning is actually going to work if if they will be able to counter it, unless you're just a bad player who blindly all-ins and flips a coin. Fortunately for us Zergs, Terran player are still delusional and think scans cost minerals and most of em refuse to ever use them for anything but clearing creep. How on earth do you find out where his overlord positioning is? Aside from getting vikings/medevacs its basically impossible. And at what game time does a starport even finish? Basically any early game rush is nullified by this patch, dumb da dumb da dumb
Ok let me give you a couple pointers. If you are going to all-in odds are you should have a plan of what type of all-in you want to do before the game even starts meaning from the very start of the game your entire gameplay should revolve around making your all-in work and be as effective as possible. Knowing this, you should actively work to deny scouting as if the game depends upon it. Learn to get a feel for aproximately how fast an overlord moves and generally be aware of what part of the map it will be capable of reaching, you can pull an extra SCV in the early game to scout around and try to find the first overlord and figure out where it is going. I can't speak for all Zergs but typically my first overlord will be positioned somewhere just outside the Main in a gap of space, or possibly outside the natural over a cliff or something, but almost always outside the main. But basically, if you are going to all-in do everything in your power to deny scouting even if that means pulling out a fast scouting scv to just grab watchtowers and roam the map trying to spot the first overlord so you generally know which direction it comes from. Obviously you aren't going to be getting vikings to try and hunt down the first overlord, that's just pointless.
Of course none of this will guarentee your all-in will work but there is a lot of can do to increase your odds. Also, you should be aware that some zergs will recognize that you are trying very hard to deny scouting and this can tip them off that you are likely to all-in them. If at any point you feel like your original plan is not going to work you should also have backup plans and ways to transition out before it is too late.
But really it's not too bad, like I said before as a Zerg when you try to all-in vs Terran a big part of it is simply hoping your opponent doesn't scan in the right spot or scan at all, there isn't really much you can do about it. At least as Terran there are ways to increase your chances other than hoping your opponent doesn't try very hard to scout you out.
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On May 17 2012 05:24 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 05:13 IPA wrote:
Pretty much WILD overreacting from everyone outside GM. These changes might make things difficult if you're doing everything else at a top level. If you're below extreme high masters, you have much, much, much bigger things to worry about that are causing your losses -- it ain't the OMG SUPERPOWER queen or the ovie speed.
Thats great that you feel that way, must be convenient to live on another planet. Every single balance change affects every single person playing starcraft. Quens having longer range affects every game of starcraft, not just in GM. The really baffling thing is that these changes were not needed at all. Most likely blizzard is trying to boost zerg win ratio to get more money for HotS, only thing is, theyre totally alienating the terran fan base. Hope you guys enjoy your ZvZ and PvZ because Terran will probably make up less than 10% of the ladder soon
i think Blizzard looked at TvZ and saw that zerg has a huge chance to die early/get crippled by a terran attack, of which the risk of the attack failing did not imply the drastic drawback which the huge reward in case of success would demand to appear balanced. In other words: Terran does early stuff, either zerg dies, or zerg is slightly ahead and the terran still has a fair fighting chance, so too low risk from terran for too high of a reward, therefore try to give zerg a slight buff to make it less probable of the terran attack succeeding. Sure, applying pressure and stuff is good (and semi-necessary, as in if you deny the third and get your natural decently fast you still are in good/better shape than the zerg due to double orbital, even if he was free to drone), but there has to be a fair trade-off, and Blizzard felt like this was not given.
On the other side of the coin, pretty much all zerg aggression is based upon the terran being greedy (not walling off, not scouting for natural/third, not scanning if in doubtful situations, not checking for banelings morphing outside the base, getting siege tanks way too late, not getting enough bunkers, not getting enough units in general because of teching/expanding etc).
Plus the kinda free map control + creep spread denial with 2 hellions was too good to be true
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Terran is now without a doubt the worse race in the game gg blizz keep nerfing terran.
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On May 17 2012 05:46 IPA wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 05:24 teamhozac wrote:On May 17 2012 05:13 IPA wrote:
Pretty much WILD overreacting from everyone outside GM. These changes might make things difficult if you're doing everything else at a top level. If you're below extreme high masters, you have much, much, much bigger things to worry about that are causing your losses -- it ain't the OMG SUPERPOWER queen or the ovie speed.
Thats great that you feel that way, must be convenient to live on another planet. Every single balance change affects every single person playing starcraft. Quens having longer range affects every game of starcraft, not just in GM. The really baffling thing is that these changes were not needed at all. Most likely blizzard is trying to boost zerg win ratio to get more money for HotS, only thing is, theyre totally alienating the terran fan base. Hope you guys enjoy your ZvZ and PvZ because Terran will probably make up less than 10% of the ladder soon Totally bro -- the queen's additional range is what is holding you and the multitudes of diamond-to-mud leaguers from achieving your ranked goals. Upload a replay and allow me to pick it apart. I'll do it without mentioning the queen once. Cheers.
No kidding you wouldnt mention it, because it doesnt fit your agenda of validating these balance changes. I imagine something along the lines of "Oh you got supply blocked there, you coulda split your marines better, etc" Pretty funny how posting replays works, because theres always something more you "should have" done
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On May 17 2012 05:52 Cirqueenflex wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 05:24 teamhozac wrote:On May 17 2012 05:13 IPA wrote:
Pretty much WILD overreacting from everyone outside GM. These changes might make things difficult if you're doing everything else at a top level. If you're below extreme high masters, you have much, much, much bigger things to worry about that are causing your losses -- it ain't the OMG SUPERPOWER queen or the ovie speed.
Thats great that you feel that way, must be convenient to live on another planet. Every single balance change affects every single person playing starcraft. Quens having longer range affects every game of starcraft, not just in GM. The really baffling thing is that these changes were not needed at all. Most likely blizzard is trying to boost zerg win ratio to get more money for HotS, only thing is, theyre totally alienating the terran fan base. Hope you guys enjoy your ZvZ and PvZ because Terran will probably make up less than 10% of the ladder soon i think Blizzard looked at TvZ and saw that zerg has a huge chance to die early/get crippled by a terran attack, of which the risk of the attack failing did not imply the drastic drawback which the huge reward in case of success would demand to appear balanced. In other words: Terran does early stuff, either zerg dies, or zerg is slightly ahead and the terran still has a fair fighting chance, so too low risk from terran for too high of a reward, therefore try to give zerg a slight buff to make it less probable of the terran attack succeeding. Sure, applying pressure and stuff is good (and semi-necessary, as in if you deny the third and get your natural decently fast you still are in good/better shape than the zerg due to double orbital, even if he was free to drone), but there has to be a fair trade-off, and Blizzard felt like this was not given. On the other side of the coin, pretty much all zerg aggression is based upon the terran being greedy (not walling off, not scouting for natural/third, not scanning if in doubtful situations, not checking for banelings morphing outside the base, getting siege tanks way too late, not getting enough bunkers, not getting enough units in general because of teching/expanding etc). Plus the kinda free map control + creep spread denial with 2 hellions was too good to be true
My question is, who asked for these changes? When have hellions EVER been a problem? Zergs learned to scout like 18 months ago, I havent heard anyone complain about either of these things in like a year. Now that Blizzard came out with the changes every zerg player is trying to validate them...
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On May 17 2012 05:58 Killcani wrote:
Terran is now without a doubt the worse race in the game gg blizz keep nerfing terran.
maybe they are nerfing them , cuz they are op in HOTS?
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oh man you whiny ass terrans. the buff on the queen isnt as big of a deal as you seem to make it out to be ... if you're looking for a good enjoyable macro game.
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Sorry guys, I want to say, after playing numerous games TvZ this patch. I pretty much lost 11 of 15 TvZs played. Most people around my MMR mass queen and go straight for hive units and infestors. It seems impossible to defeat zerg. Also, I just watched VTAvilo vs Fitzyhere 2 hour game where Avilo was not able to engage fitzgzys queen infestor broodlord army.
I don't know guys, I am out of ideas of the recent queen buff that they fight Terran infantry units head on and not lose any units because of transfusion (mass) and do not take additional damage from tanks.
Any tips/comments?
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I think the majority concern here that, now, queens fight 15x better than roaches on creep but also has 3 spells to cast, do not take armor damage, same range to most terran units. transfusion makes all early terran pressure really useless, do not cost gas, shoots both air and ground with incredible range.
Not only that, it generates massive amount of creep.
Some people say to use scans to deny creep, but its really hurting the Terran economy because Terran needs mules to balance out the 20 drones in 1 batch scenario.
Also note that almost all of the ladder maps are ginormous it's impossible to have any timing other than to just take a fast 3rd and how to stop the nonstop creep that will reach my bases before 11 minute mark.
If any Terran is out there or blizzard staff, especially david Kim, please give me some tips or ideas on how to combat this. Thank you very much.
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On May 17 2012 06:08 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 05:46 IPA wrote:On May 17 2012 05:24 teamhozac wrote:On May 17 2012 05:13 IPA wrote:
Pretty much WILD overreacting from everyone outside GM. These changes might make things difficult if you're doing everything else at a top level. If you're below extreme high masters, you have much, much, much bigger things to worry about that are causing your losses -- it ain't the OMG SUPERPOWER queen or the ovie speed.
Thats great that you feel that way, must be convenient to live on another planet. Every single balance change affects every single person playing starcraft. Quens having longer range affects every game of starcraft, not just in GM. The really baffling thing is that these changes were not needed at all. Most likely blizzard is trying to boost zerg win ratio to get more money for HotS, only thing is, theyre totally alienating the terran fan base. Hope you guys enjoy your ZvZ and PvZ because Terran will probably make up less than 10% of the ladder soon Totally bro -- the queen's additional range is what is holding you and the multitudes of diamond-to-mud leaguers from achieving your ranked goals. Upload a replay and allow me to pick it apart. I'll do it without mentioning the queen once. Cheers. No kidding you wouldnt mention it, because it doesnt fit your agenda of validating these balance changes. I imagine something along the lines of "Oh you got supply blocked there, you coulda split your marines better, etc" Pretty funny how posting replays works, because theres always something more you "should have" done
Yeah that's kinda the point he's getting at. If there's still a plethora if things you should do better then you should focus on doing those things better instead of focusing on one single balance change and blaming it for all your losses.
In other words, stop complaining and worry about fixing your own play before you start to think the whole game should be changed to accomodate you.
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On May 17 2012 07:26 VPFaith wrote:
Sorry guys, I want to say, after playing numerous games TvZ this patch. I pretty much lost 11 of 15 TvZs played. Most people around my MMR mass queen and go straight for hive units and infestors. It seems impossible to defeat zerg. Also, I just watched VTAvilo vs Fitzyhere 2 hour game where Avilo was not able to engage fitzgzys queen infestor broodlord army.
I don't know guys, I am out of ideas of the recent queen buff that they fight Terran infantry units head on and not lose any units because of transfusion (mass) and do not take additional damage from tanks.
Any tips/comments?
No tips, but can you post a replay of a Z going this style? I want to try it, but have a hard time believing it's viable.
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Just watch Fitzyhere's stream http://www.twitch.tv/fitzyhere
His TvZ involves 20-30 queens infestors broodlords.
If anyone found a counter composition to this, please share it. Thanks.
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Sounds like drops. That blob isn't moving anywhere anytime soon.
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On May 17 2012 06:08 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 05:46 IPA wrote:On May 17 2012 05:24 teamhozac wrote:On May 17 2012 05:13 IPA wrote:
Pretty much WILD overreacting from everyone outside GM. These changes might make things difficult if you're doing everything else at a top level. If you're below extreme high masters, you have much, much, much bigger things to worry about that are causing your losses -- it ain't the OMG SUPERPOWER queen or the ovie speed.
Thats great that you feel that way, must be convenient to live on another planet. Every single balance change affects every single person playing starcraft. Quens having longer range affects every game of starcraft, not just in GM. The really baffling thing is that these changes were not needed at all. Most likely blizzard is trying to boost zerg win ratio to get more money for HotS, only thing is, theyre totally alienating the terran fan base. Hope you guys enjoy your ZvZ and PvZ because Terran will probably make up less than 10% of the ladder soon Totally bro -- the queen's additional range is what is holding you and the multitudes of diamond-to-mud leaguers from achieving your ranked goals. Upload a replay and allow me to pick it apart. I'll do it without mentioning the queen once. Cheers. No kidding you wouldnt mention it, because it doesnt fit your agenda of validating these balance changes. I imagine something along the lines of "Oh you got supply blocked there, you coulda split your marines better, etc" Pretty funny how posting replays works, because theres always something more you "should have" done
Thank you for proving my point.  Carry on whining about queens while you supply block yourself, execute unrefined timings, and showcase poor micro. But seriously, it's the new queen range. That's why you lost.
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EPT
