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Patch 1.4.3.2 - Page 79

Forum Index > SC2 General
2059 CommentsPost a Reply
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oMNY.SEA
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia47 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-13 23:38:18
May 13 2012 23:37 GMT
#1561
On May 10 2012 12:30 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
Bunker is not changed

As much as I know why this is included, I still laugh at the thought that Blizzard has to explicitly state when a patch doesn't change how the bunker functions!




Hahahahahaha! Seriously mate, 40 pages and i still couldnt not quote you.

Edit: 78 Pages
stevarius
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1394 Posts
May 13 2012 23:44 GMT
#1562
On May 14 2012 06:21 VoO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2012 05:12 quarkle wrote:
My best advice for weaker Terrans is to switch race to Zerg now.!
I've been playing Terran since sc2's release and thought I'd never switch but since switching to Zerg my win rate is around 85% (playing at low level)

I think Terran takes a lot more skill to play which probably suits those with very high apm ...sadly my apm sucks but playing Zerg with low apm seems ok to me. It feels like slow motion compaired to the hectic Terran macro madness.
I also love just how many early (cheese) game options Zerg have.
Its so quick to rack up a load of very fast easy wins, I can almost feel the Terran pain having been one myself for so long when i march into their base with a load of roaches or go for a quick bane bust and totally wipe them out. lol

One thing I noticed is Terrans are far less chilled out when being cheezed. Most either quit without a gg or start whining that playing cheese will never improve my gameplay.
Strange that since my ladder ranking is climbing very fast.
I certainly don't play sc2 to lose games even if i am somehow percieved as a better player as a Terran.
Winning is fun and the new zerg buff is going to make things even easier.




Random Master. You need higher APM to do utilize Zerg. Terran is by far the most cheese-resistant race. Terran is the worst ladder race. That said, B doesn't balance for ladder. Ladder will always be imba, just pick the strongest race.


You don't have to be faster to play zerg. Your APM is higher because of the mindless unit production and larva mechanic nonsense that inflates it higher than doing anything productive other than unit production. My apm is definitely higher as a zerg, but in no way am I accomplishing more than I do as Terran, even with a slightly lower apm measurement.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
MtlGuitarist97
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States1539 Posts
May 14 2012 00:27 GMT
#1563
On May 14 2012 08:44 stevarius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2012 06:21 VoO wrote:
On May 14 2012 05:12 quarkle wrote:
My best advice for weaker Terrans is to switch race to Zerg now.!
I've been playing Terran since sc2's release and thought I'd never switch but since switching to Zerg my win rate is around 85% (playing at low level)

I think Terran takes a lot more skill to play which probably suits those with very high apm ...sadly my apm sucks but playing Zerg with low apm seems ok to me. It feels like slow motion compaired to the hectic Terran macro madness.
I also love just how many early (cheese) game options Zerg have.
Its so quick to rack up a load of very fast easy wins, I can almost feel the Terran pain having been one myself for so long when i march into their base with a load of roaches or go for a quick bane bust and totally wipe them out. lol

One thing I noticed is Terrans are far less chilled out when being cheezed. Most either quit without a gg or start whining that playing cheese will never improve my gameplay.
Strange that since my ladder ranking is climbing very fast.
I certainly don't play sc2 to lose games even if i am somehow percieved as a better player as a Terran.
Winning is fun and the new zerg buff is going to make things even easier.




Random Master. You need higher APM to do utilize Zerg. Terran is by far the most cheese-resistant race. Terran is the worst ladder race. That said, B doesn't balance for ladder. Ladder will always be imba, just pick the strongest race.


You don't have to be faster to play zerg. Your APM is higher because of the mindless unit production and larva mechanic nonsense that inflates it higher than doing anything productive other than unit production. My apm is definitely higher as a zerg, but in no way am I accomplishing more than I do as Terran, even with a slightly lower apm measurement.


I'm a master Terran/mid diamond zerg player (other than ZvP lol), and I have to say the difference between Zerg and Terran is that with Zerg I feel like there's ALWAYS something more I can be doing. It's not that it's hard...but the amount of stuff to do is overwhelming. Spread creep, hotkey units, morph banelings, upgrade something, inject, make units, spread overlords, spread creep again, inject.

It's not that it's "hard" or "mindless," it's just very time consuming and apm consuming. I definitely think that Zerg takes the most skill mechanically to get everything done (assuming you're left alone) just because of the amount of stupid shit that you have to do to stay at a middle level. I don't play at a low apm either, about 130 EAPM according to SCII gears (I have a ton of apm redundancy though).
ferencziffra
Profile Joined September 2011
Bulgaria29 Posts
May 14 2012 00:36 GMT
#1564
Like the guy before said, with zerg you have a shitload of stuff available for doing, whether they are critical, beneficial, or irrelevant.Obviously high effective apm means you are coping with a larger number of those, but it's not about how fast you do stuff per se, it's about doing the correct stuff fast enough. The faster the better obviously but the point is to do the right things.

In response to stevarius, yes what you just said literally means that you have to be faster to play zerg. Having to press an additional key (S) every time you access your hatch before producing, actually requires you to press that key. So in order to produce 1 (one) unit as Zerg means you have to do twice the effort and spend twice the time as a Terran has. Don't get me started on larva injects, creep spread and mixing in all the stuff together.
Sajaki
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada1135 Posts
May 14 2012 00:46 GMT
#1565
On May 14 2012 09:36 ferencziffra wrote:in order to produce 1 (one) unit as Zerg means you have to do twice the effort and spend twice the time as a Terran has. Don't get me started on larva injects, creep spread and mixing in all the stuff together.


Thats not exactly true. In order to produce units, Zerg has 1 hot key to press. You can spend all larvae with a simple srrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr szzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz or w/e. With terran, units come out of multiple facilities bound to multiple hotkeys. Not only that, but you must constantly tap between facilities to check on units' progress. Zerg doesn't require much tapping other then checking inject status (if u bind hatches indivigually). Additionally, due to construction timings, terran production is staggered (hence the need for a lot of tapping) and zerg macro is more cyclical (with injects). The only thing Zerg has on Terran is creep spread which T has no rough equivalent to.
Inno pls...
Diminisherqc
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada220 Posts
May 14 2012 01:00 GMT
#1566
well as a platinum terran late game vs toss is impossible and pvz is so hard even before patch woner what i'tll be when you cant pressure zerg at all in early and mid .So glad diablo 3 is out in 2 days haha
Greggle
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1131 Posts
May 14 2012 01:08 GMT
#1567
Why not also specify that zealot build time hasn't changed? :p
Life is too short to take it seriously.
Fuchsteufelswild
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2028 Posts
May 14 2012 05:32 GMT
#1568
I wish they would change the attack animation back for the queen's ground attack though, it's not the same with it looking the same as the anti-air attack animation. Obviously, the range of the animation is too short for 5 ground range, but I hope they're working on a longer version of the previous ground animation. I heard earlier they were working on a new animation, but that may have just been "working on" changing the animation to the same as the air one (only with two hits).
*Fingers crossed*
ZerO - FantaSy - Calm - Nal_rA - Jaedong - NaDa - EffOrt - Bisu - by.hero - StarDust - Welmu - Nerchio - Supernova - Solar - Squirtle - LosirA - Grubby - IntoTheRainbow - Golden... ~~~ Incredible Miracle and Woongjin Stars 화이팅!
dreamsmasher
Profile Joined November 2010
816 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-14 06:07:43
May 14 2012 06:04 GMT
#1569
playing zerg helped me with a lot of things, mostly recognizing the HUGE importance of good scouting with the other races, game sense, and using map hotkeys. these are all things that are important with the other races too, but because they aren't as vital to success, you don't practice them as much.

try zerg out! you'll become a better player.

i dont think playing zerg is harder, it's actually easier to multitask i think because everything can be made with one hotkey and because of shared production, it's just easier to quickly f1 and grab a drone and hit R or whatever then it is to micro other types of units and build multiple barrack/gateways etc... esp since building placement is a bit more important for the other races. i also feel that losing ur units (like zerglings in the arly game, roaches mid game) is not as big of a deal as losing ur blink stalker army/marine/tank army etc..

my apm is on average about 30-40 higher with Z.
kain279
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3 Posts
May 14 2012 07:10 GMT
#1570
The obs buff kinda sucks for me. I have developed a great DT rush where I can get three out at around 6:00 (perfect) to 6:30. A few times I have barely killed off the robo (hidden off main base as a last resort) in time to preventthe observer and secure the win. It seems that whenever I find a winning tactic a patch ruins it.
RogerChillingworth
Profile Joined March 2010
3055 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-14 07:28:04
May 14 2012 07:22 GMT
#1571
On May 14 2012 15:04 dreamsmasher wrote:

i dont think playing zerg is harder, it's actually easier to multitask i think because everything can be made with one hotkey and because of shared production, it's just easier to quickly f1 and grab a drone and hit R or whatever then it is to micro other types of units and build multiple barrack/gateways etc... esp since building placement is a bit more important for the other races. i also feel that losing ur units (like zerglings in the arly game, roaches mid game) is not as big of a deal as losing ur blink stalker army/marine/tank army etc..
.



dno what league you're in, but you're kind of off base across the board.

1) the demand for multitasking increases when you're the defender, and zerg often is. Simply, a terran can send a drop and not pay attention to it (qxc says he does this often, in multiple locations, to stress zergs to the limit) while he makes a more meaningful advance or expands. obviously both attacking and defending in high level play requires great multitasking, but zerg is by no means 'easier'; not to mention i think you're misusing the term.

2) zerg macro isn't 1 hotkey and 1 keyboard click. it's either individual hatcheries hotkeyed spearately, all hatcheries on 1 key and each queen hotkeyed separately, or the more rare queens in one group and hatcheries in another group. the latter isn't efficient unless you're doing backspace or minimap method, which is generally more rare and lends itself to more mistakes.

3) losing units is always a big deal for any race. the blow is only softened by being on an extremely good economy and, even then, zerg production can be more fragile given the loss of queens = the loss of production, or given larva itself is actually a resource for zerg, just as minerals or gas. Of course the fragility of larva is also its strength: inject is extremely powerful, having the access to so much production at once.

--

in any case, this thread doesn't seem like it's about the patch anymore, but rather more race wars that won't find conclusion.

it's starting to be proven, however, that 2/3 of the changes were buffs to scouting--likely always welcomed--while the last change was a defensive change with very little or no ability to be abused. unless there are glaring imbalances, this thread serves as a providing of the supply for a demand that shouldn't be there at this point.
VoO
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany278 Posts
May 14 2012 07:22 GMT
#1572
On May 14 2012 08:44 stevarius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2012 06:21 VoO wrote:
On May 14 2012 05:12 quarkle wrote:
My best advice for weaker Terrans is to switch race to Zerg now.!
I've been playing Terran since sc2's release and thought I'd never switch but since switching to Zerg my win rate is around 85% (playing at low level)

I think Terran takes a lot more skill to play which probably suits those with very high apm ...sadly my apm sucks but playing Zerg with low apm seems ok to me. It feels like slow motion compaired to the hectic Terran macro madness.
I also love just how many early (cheese) game options Zerg have.
Its so quick to rack up a load of very fast easy wins, I can almost feel the Terran pain having been one myself for so long when i march into their base with a load of roaches or go for a quick bane bust and totally wipe them out. lol

One thing I noticed is Terrans are far less chilled out when being cheezed. Most either quit without a gg or start whining that playing cheese will never improve my gameplay.
Strange that since my ladder ranking is climbing very fast.
I certainly don't play sc2 to lose games even if i am somehow percieved as a better player as a Terran.
Winning is fun and the new zerg buff is going to make things even easier.




Random Master. You need higher APM to do utilize Zerg. Terran is by far the most cheese-resistant race. Terran is the worst ladder race. That said, B doesn't balance for ladder. Ladder will always be imba, just pick the strongest race.


You don't have to be faster to play zerg. Your APM is higher because of the mindless unit production and larva mechanic nonsense that inflates it higher than doing anything productive other than unit production. My apm is definitely higher as a zerg, but in no way am I accomplishing more than I do as Terran, even with a slightly lower apm measurement.


Sorry, that's exactly what I meant with "utilize", thanks for clarification!
♥ 김택용 ♥Casual Dwarf Fortress Progamer
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15845 Posts
May 14 2012 07:38 GMT
#1573
Am I the only one not playing zerg who find this patch has no effect on my game? Come on, I'm not the only notmaster player on TL. I'm happy to force 2 spines & 1 extra queen with 2 hellions + deny 3rd for a bit of time.
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
vRadiatioNv
Profile Joined August 2010
United States139 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-14 12:53:00
May 14 2012 12:45 GMT
#1574
On May 14 2012 16:22 RogerChillingworth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2012 15:04 dreamsmasher wrote:

i dont think playing zerg is harder, it's actually easier to multitask i think because everything can be made with one hotkey and because of shared production, it's just easier to quickly f1 and grab a drone and hit R or whatever then it is to micro other types of units and build multiple barrack/gateways etc... esp since building placement is a bit more important for the other races. i also feel that losing ur units (like zerglings in the arly game, roaches mid game) is not as big of a deal as losing ur blink stalker army/marine/tank army etc..
.



dno what league you're in, but you're kind of off base across the board.

1) the demand for multitasking increases when you're the defender, and zerg often is. Simply, a terran can send a drop and not pay attention to it (qxc says he does this often, in multiple locations, to stress zergs to the limit) while he makes a more meaningful advance or expands. obviously both attacking and defending in high level play requires great multitasking, but zerg is by no means 'easier'; not to mention i think you're misusing the term.

2) zerg macro isn't 1 hotkey and 1 keyboard click. it's either individual hatcheries hotkeyed spearately, all hatcheries on 1 key and each queen hotkeyed separately, or the more rare queens in one group and hatcheries in another group. the latter isn't efficient unless you're doing backspace or minimap method, which is generally more rare and lends itself to more mistakes.

3) losing units is always a big deal for any race. the blow is only softened by being on an extremely good economy and, even then, zerg production can be more fragile given the loss of queens = the loss of production, or given larva itself is actually a resource for zerg, just as minerals or gas. Of course the fragility of larva is also its strength: inject is extremely powerful, having the access to so much production at once.

--

in any case, this thread doesn't seem like it's about the patch anymore, but rather more race wars that won't find conclusion.

it's starting to be proven, however, that 2/3 of the changes were buffs to scouting--likely always welcomed--while the last change was a defensive change with very little or no ability to be abused. unless there are glaring imbalances, this thread serves as a providing of the supply for a demand that shouldn't be there at this point.

You, sir, just won this thread.

I would just like to further stress the statement you made about the defensive change. Basically, all that has changed is that Zerg players can be ever-so-slightly more aggressive with their Queens and their creep spread. That's all. Hellions still do their jobs. They can still get early map control fairly easy, they still can deny the 3rd base, they can still kill off creep tumors (while taking a hit or two from the Queen), and they can still run by the Queens/Spines and get drone kills. Not much changed at all. People need to chill out.
noD
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
May 14 2012 15:32 GMT
#1575
I don't understand blizzard's logic ....
kmh
Profile Joined November 2010
Finland351 Posts
May 14 2012 16:14 GMT
#1576
On May 15 2012 00:32 noD wrote:
I don't understand blizzard's logic ....


They want to improve scouting and zerg early game defense. They buff scouting tools and zerg early game defense. All in all, some very simple logic.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44915 Posts
May 14 2012 16:19 GMT
#1577
On May 14 2012 16:10 kain279 wrote:
The obs buff kinda sucks for me. I have developed a great DT rush where I can get three out at around 6:00 (perfect) to 6:30. A few times I have barely killed off the robo (hidden off main base as a last resort) in time to preventthe observer and secure the win. It seems that whenever I find a winning tactic a patch ruins it.


Kiwikaki, is that you?
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
kain279
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3 Posts
May 14 2012 16:31 GMT
#1578
On May 15 2012 01:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2012 16:10 kain279 wrote:
The obs buff kinda sucks for me. I have developed a great DT rush where I can get three out at around 6:00 (perfect) to 6:30. A few times I have barely killed off the robo (hidden off main base as a last resort) in time to preventthe observer and secure the win. It seems that whenever I find a winning tactic a patch ruins it.


Kiwikaki, is that you?



Wish I was that good.
Irre
Profile Joined August 2010
United States646 Posts
May 14 2012 16:36 GMT
#1579
TvZ now in diamond- (this was my last 10 or so TvZs, not the best sample size but crazy how many times in a row it happened)

I am now forced into a 1 rax expand unless i want to play risky and go for 2 rax and hope to do damage. Zerg sees this by either no gas scout or checking with lings. proceeds to 2 hatch baneling bust and I die over and over.

If I try to put up walls and multiple bunkers and he doesnt do it- massively behind on tech/army/economy.. if he does do it and I don't have that I die. Even going hellion expand is really difficult to hold them. Anyone else having this experience? Is it even possible to hold a baneling all in going 1 rax expand?

Basically the patch made it so creep can be all over the place very fast, zergs have a free ticket to the standard deathball comp of ling infestor blood/ultra, and you have to be a god in the late game and get some serious damage done with drops to have a prayer to win now. I actually hope to play Protoss over zerg lately, which is really saying something considering how hard it is to win in that matchup.
DelugeSC
Profile Joined December 2011
United States96 Posts
May 14 2012 16:58 GMT
#1580
On May 15 2012 01:36 Irre wrote:
TvZ now in diamond- (this was my last 10 or so TvZs, not the best sample size but crazy how many times in a row it happened)

I am now forced into a 1 rax expand unless i want to play risky and go for 2 rax and hope to do damage. Zerg sees this by either no gas scout or checking with lings. proceeds to 2 hatch baneling bust and I die over and over.

If I try to put up walls and multiple bunkers and he doesnt do it- massively behind on tech/army/economy.. if he does do it and I don't have that I die. Even going hellion expand is really difficult to hold them. Anyone else having this experience? Is it even possible to hold a baneling all in going 1 rax expand?

Basically the patch made it so creep can be all over the place very fast, zergs have a free ticket to the standard deathball comp of ling infestor blood/ultra, and you have to be a god in the late game and get some serious damage done with drops to have a prayer to win now. I actually hope to play Protoss over zerg lately, which is really saying something considering how hard it is to win in that matchup.


Rush siege tech after your initial hellions and wall-off at your natural with your rax. You shouldn't have an issue if your tanks are on high ground and you split your units.
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