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oMNY.SEA
Australia47 Posts
On May 10 2012 12:30 Danglars wrote: As much as I know why this is included, I still laugh at the thought that Blizzard has to explicitly state when a patch doesn't change how the bunker functions! Hahahahahaha! Seriously mate, 40 pages and i still couldnt not quote you. Edit: 78 Pages | ||
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stevarius
United States1394 Posts
On May 14 2012 06:21 VoO wrote: Random Master. You need higher APM to do utilize Zerg. Terran is by far the most cheese-resistant race. Terran is the worst ladder race. That said, B doesn't balance for ladder. Ladder will always be imba, just pick the strongest race. You don't have to be faster to play zerg. Your APM is higher because of the mindless unit production and larva mechanic nonsense that inflates it higher than doing anything productive other than unit production. My apm is definitely higher as a zerg, but in no way am I accomplishing more than I do as Terran, even with a slightly lower apm measurement. | ||
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MtlGuitarist97
United States1539 Posts
On May 14 2012 08:44 stevarius wrote: You don't have to be faster to play zerg. Your APM is higher because of the mindless unit production and larva mechanic nonsense that inflates it higher than doing anything productive other than unit production. My apm is definitely higher as a zerg, but in no way am I accomplishing more than I do as Terran, even with a slightly lower apm measurement. I'm a master Terran/mid diamond zerg player (other than ZvP lol), and I have to say the difference between Zerg and Terran is that with Zerg I feel like there's ALWAYS something more I can be doing. It's not that it's hard...but the amount of stuff to do is overwhelming. Spread creep, hotkey units, morph banelings, upgrade something, inject, make units, spread overlords, spread creep again, inject. It's not that it's "hard" or "mindless," it's just very time consuming and apm consuming. I definitely think that Zerg takes the most skill mechanically to get everything done (assuming you're left alone) just because of the amount of stupid shit that you have to do to stay at a middle level. I don't play at a low apm either, about 130 EAPM according to SCII gears (I have a ton of apm redundancy though). | ||
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ferencziffra
Bulgaria29 Posts
In response to stevarius, yes what you just said literally means that you have to be faster to play zerg. Having to press an additional key (S) every time you access your hatch before producing, actually requires you to press that key. So in order to produce 1 (one) unit as Zerg means you have to do twice the effort and spend twice the time as a Terran has. Don't get me started on larva injects, creep spread and mixing in all the stuff together. | ||
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
On May 14 2012 09:36 ferencziffra wrote:in order to produce 1 (one) unit as Zerg means you have to do twice the effort and spend twice the time as a Terran has. Don't get me started on larva injects, creep spread and mixing in all the stuff together. Thats not exactly true. In order to produce units, Zerg has 1 hot key to press. You can spend all larvae with a simple srrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr szzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz or w/e. With terran, units come out of multiple facilities bound to multiple hotkeys. Not only that, but you must constantly tap between facilities to check on units' progress. Zerg doesn't require much tapping other then checking inject status (if u bind hatches indivigually). Additionally, due to construction timings, terran production is staggered (hence the need for a lot of tapping) and zerg macro is more cyclical (with injects). The only thing Zerg has on Terran is creep spread which T has no rough equivalent to. | ||
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Diminisherqc
Canada220 Posts
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Greggle
United States1131 Posts
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Fuchsteufelswild
Australia2028 Posts
*Fingers crossed* | ||
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dreamsmasher
816 Posts
try zerg out! you'll become a better player. i dont think playing zerg is harder, it's actually easier to multitask i think because everything can be made with one hotkey and because of shared production, it's just easier to quickly f1 and grab a drone and hit R or whatever then it is to micro other types of units and build multiple barrack/gateways etc... esp since building placement is a bit more important for the other races. i also feel that losing ur units (like zerglings in the arly game, roaches mid game) is not as big of a deal as losing ur blink stalker army/marine/tank army etc.. my apm is on average about 30-40 higher with Z. | ||
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kain279
United States3 Posts
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3131 Posts
On May 14 2012 15:04 dreamsmasher wrote: i dont think playing zerg is harder, it's actually easier to multitask i think because everything can be made with one hotkey and because of shared production, it's just easier to quickly f1 and grab a drone and hit R or whatever then it is to micro other types of units and build multiple barrack/gateways etc... esp since building placement is a bit more important for the other races. i also feel that losing ur units (like zerglings in the arly game, roaches mid game) is not as big of a deal as losing ur blink stalker army/marine/tank army etc.. . dno what league you're in, but you're kind of off base across the board. 1) the demand for multitasking increases when you're the defender, and zerg often is. Simply, a terran can send a drop and not pay attention to it (qxc says he does this often, in multiple locations, to stress zergs to the limit) while he makes a more meaningful advance or expands. obviously both attacking and defending in high level play requires great multitasking, but zerg is by no means 'easier'; not to mention i think you're misusing the term. 2) zerg macro isn't 1 hotkey and 1 keyboard click. it's either individual hatcheries hotkeyed spearately, all hatcheries on 1 key and each queen hotkeyed separately, or the more rare queens in one group and hatcheries in another group. the latter isn't efficient unless you're doing backspace or minimap method, which is generally more rare and lends itself to more mistakes. 3) losing units is always a big deal for any race. the blow is only softened by being on an extremely good economy and, even then, zerg production can be more fragile given the loss of queens = the loss of production, or given larva itself is actually a resource for zerg, just as minerals or gas. Of course the fragility of larva is also its strength: inject is extremely powerful, having the access to so much production at once. -- in any case, this thread doesn't seem like it's about the patch anymore, but rather more race wars that won't find conclusion. it's starting to be proven, however, that 2/3 of the changes were buffs to scouting--likely always welcomed--while the last change was a defensive change with very little or no ability to be abused. unless there are glaring imbalances, this thread serves as a providing of the supply for a demand that shouldn't be there at this point. | ||
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VoO
Germany278 Posts
On May 14 2012 08:44 stevarius wrote: You don't have to be faster to play zerg. Your APM is higher because of the mindless unit production and larva mechanic nonsense that inflates it higher than doing anything productive other than unit production. My apm is definitely higher as a zerg, but in no way am I accomplishing more than I do as Terran, even with a slightly lower apm measurement. Sorry, that's exactly what I meant with "utilize", thanks for clarification! | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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vRadiatioNv
United States139 Posts
On May 14 2012 16:22 RogerChillingworth wrote: dno what league you're in, but you're kind of off base across the board. 1) the demand for multitasking increases when you're the defender, and zerg often is. Simply, a terran can send a drop and not pay attention to it (qxc says he does this often, in multiple locations, to stress zergs to the limit) while he makes a more meaningful advance or expands. obviously both attacking and defending in high level play requires great multitasking, but zerg is by no means 'easier'; not to mention i think you're misusing the term. 2) zerg macro isn't 1 hotkey and 1 keyboard click. it's either individual hatcheries hotkeyed spearately, all hatcheries on 1 key and each queen hotkeyed separately, or the more rare queens in one group and hatcheries in another group. the latter isn't efficient unless you're doing backspace or minimap method, which is generally more rare and lends itself to more mistakes. 3) losing units is always a big deal for any race. the blow is only softened by being on an extremely good economy and, even then, zerg production can be more fragile given the loss of queens = the loss of production, or given larva itself is actually a resource for zerg, just as minerals or gas. Of course the fragility of larva is also its strength: inject is extremely powerful, having the access to so much production at once. -- in any case, this thread doesn't seem like it's about the patch anymore, but rather more race wars that won't find conclusion. it's starting to be proven, however, that 2/3 of the changes were buffs to scouting--likely always welcomed--while the last change was a defensive change with very little or no ability to be abused. unless there are glaring imbalances, this thread serves as a providing of the supply for a demand that shouldn't be there at this point. You, sir, just won this thread. I would just like to further stress the statement you made about the defensive change. Basically, all that has changed is that Zerg players can be ever-so-slightly more aggressive with their Queens and their creep spread. That's all. Hellions still do their jobs. They can still get early map control fairly easy, they still can deny the 3rd base, they can still kill off creep tumors (while taking a hit or two from the Queen), and they can still run by the Queens/Spines and get drone kills. Not much changed at all. People need to chill out. | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
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kmh
Finland351 Posts
On May 15 2012 00:32 noD wrote: I don't understand blizzard's logic .... They want to improve scouting and zerg early game defense. They buff scouting tools and zerg early game defense. All in all, some very simple logic. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45387 Posts
On May 14 2012 16:10 kain279 wrote: The obs buff kinda sucks for me. I have developed a great DT rush where I can get three out at around 6:00 (perfect) to 6:30. A few times I have barely killed off the robo (hidden off main base as a last resort) in time to preventthe observer and secure the win. It seems that whenever I find a winning tactic a patch ruins it. Kiwikaki, is that you? | ||
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kain279
United States3 Posts
Wish I was that good. | ||
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Irre
United States646 Posts
I am now forced into a 1 rax expand unless i want to play risky and go for 2 rax and hope to do damage. Zerg sees this by either no gas scout or checking with lings. proceeds to 2 hatch baneling bust and I die over and over. If I try to put up walls and multiple bunkers and he doesnt do it- massively behind on tech/army/economy.. if he does do it and I don't have that I die. Even going hellion expand is really difficult to hold them. Anyone else having this experience? Is it even possible to hold a baneling all in going 1 rax expand? Basically the patch made it so creep can be all over the place very fast, zergs have a free ticket to the standard deathball comp of ling infestor blood/ultra, and you have to be a god in the late game and get some serious damage done with drops to have a prayer to win now. I actually hope to play Protoss over zerg lately, which is really saying something considering how hard it is to win in that matchup. | ||
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DelugeSC
United States96 Posts
On May 15 2012 01:36 Irre wrote: TvZ now in diamond- (this was my last 10 or so TvZs, not the best sample size but crazy how many times in a row it happened) I am now forced into a 1 rax expand unless i want to play risky and go for 2 rax and hope to do damage. Zerg sees this by either no gas scout or checking with lings. proceeds to 2 hatch baneling bust and I die over and over. If I try to put up walls and multiple bunkers and he doesnt do it- massively behind on tech/army/economy.. if he does do it and I don't have that I die. Even going hellion expand is really difficult to hold them. Anyone else having this experience? Is it even possible to hold a baneling all in going 1 rax expand? Basically the patch made it so creep can be all over the place very fast, zergs have a free ticket to the standard deathball comp of ling infestor blood/ultra, and you have to be a god in the late game and get some serious damage done with drops to have a prayer to win now. I actually hope to play Protoss over zerg lately, which is really saying something considering how hard it is to win in that matchup. Rush siege tech after your initial hellions and wall-off at your natural with your rax. You shouldn't have an issue if your tanks are on high ground and you split your units. | ||
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