EPTI agree that this MIGHT change the early game quite a bit and MIGHT make it a lot harder for really good players but everyone under Grandmaster is so far away from playing anywhere near perfect that it's just ridiculous to rage about something like that....
Patch 1.4.3.2 - Page 78
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
lullaby
27 Posts
I agree that this MIGHT change the early game quite a bit and MIGHT make it a lot harder for really good players but everyone under Grandmaster is so far away from playing anywhere near perfect that it's just ridiculous to rage about something like that.... | ||
|
s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On May 14 2012 01:46 Affluenza wrote: Terran are the most well designed and well rounded race in the game. They have oustanding versatility. Now not even Blizzard can figure out what new Terran units to introduce as if they try it steps on another units toes. That's how much depth and versatility Terran has. Protoss and Zerg suffered during SC2 development and post release Blizzard have had to make balance changes to compensate to allow the two races to catch up. You can see this with the HotS unit introduction and what's been cut. Play Protoss and Zerg and you will realise pretty soon they lack certain things in particular situations. You cannot fault Blizzard for trying to fix their game up. Zergs were told exactly that actually during and after WoL was released. I.e we're playing Zerg wrong etc etc and we need to adapt which actually meant "react" not act. Through this we soon learned we can't be aggressive. If we could be aggressive July would be a GSL winner by now...the best Zergs are the ones who react and are on the ball when opponents make mistakes so they can punish those mistakes. The queen and overlord buffs are not the end of early game TvZ pressure for Terran. It's the start of where Terrans learn better unit control and rid themselves of sloppy play. 1 marine to snipe an OL? Try 2 marines. Better marine placement too. Wanna snipe a tumour/drones/lings start practicing that micro. I watched a few Korean streams yesterday and the changes I don't think have had an adverse effect on games. Considering Terran has basically 3-4 very very limited units 2 of them basically completely useless and several completely useless upgrades and abilities that have no real benefit whatsoever. If Terran is the most well-rounded race Blizzard created a bad game. Right now after patching i'd say Zerg is the most well rounded race ( i didn't say strongest ) . After your expand you have a plentora of build in every matchup you can use. Every unit has a purpose with some exeptions in specific matchups and you don't have completely obsolete upgrades without any benefit or abilities nobody uses. Yeah Terran might have more overall but if a third of that is useless not sure if that counts. There's one matchup where you can use more than 2/3's ( TvZ ) or half (TvP ) of your units as Terran and that ironically is the mirror... | ||
|
VPCursed
1044 Posts
| ||
|
teamhozac
404 Posts
On May 14 2012 02:14 lullaby wrote: haha teamliquid never fails to amuse me :D As if this change even affects the game for 90% of the posters :D If you aren't at least low grandmaster, there are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many mistakes during each game of yours that something like this doesn't matter that much... it won't make you lose more games than you already did..... I agree that this MIGHT change the early game quite a bit and MIGHT make it a lot harder for really good players but everyone under Grandmaster is so far away from playing anywhere near perfect that it's just ridiculous to rage about something like that.... This argument never fails to amuse me, it is so tired and stupid it baffles my mind that people still spew it. "Youre not in GM, youre not affected by balance changes" Yeah buddy, we are. Everyone is actually. If something in race X is buffed it makes things for race Y harder. Done deal, thats it thanks for playing. No matter what level you are on a Queen buff makes hellions harder to use, does not matter if youre in GM or Diamond in NA or KR /rant | ||
|
Theovide
Sweden914 Posts
On May 14 2012 01:34 Blizzaze wrote: Again, please tell me how an additional 2 range ruins engagements for the units you mentioned because we now have a "Super-Queen" (lol)... Banshee's: Aren't even effected since the buff was only to ground attack. Repears: Nobody used them before the buff anyways. Bioball: A typical bio engagement takes place in numbers where 1 or 2 queens have close to zero influence, regardless of range 3 or 5. Hellions: Defending Hellions now has gotten easier. I admit that. But other than that, how did the Hellion-Queen "matchup" change at all? It's not like Queens can suddely kite hellions or something. People using the argument that the queen buff doesn't affect air is getting quite tiring. I'm not even advocating that the queen buff is overpowered but it is obvious that it affects even the use of air units against zerg, even if it doesn't do so directly. Making the queen a stronger unit means there will be more queens on the field and thus zerg will be able to deal with air easier without scouting it. If they scout it though, this buff wont affect the zergs air defense very much because they'd be producing more queens then eitherway (ie before or after patch). This means, that the patch had a direct result to reduce the amount of scouting zergs need to do to be able to deal with air pushes, be that a good or bad thing. | ||
|
Blizzaze
9 Posts
On May 14 2012 02:38 Theovide wrote: People using the argument that the queen buff doesn't affect air is getting quite tiring. I'm not even advocating that the queen buff is overpowered but it is obvious that it affects even the use of air units against zerg, even if it doesn't do so directly. Making the queen a stronger unit means there will be more queens on the field and thus zerg will be able to deal with air easier without scouting it. If they scout it though, this buff wont affect the zergs air defense very much because they'd be producing more queens then eitherway (ie before or after patch). This means, that the patch had a direct result to reduce the amount of scouting zergs need to do to be able to deal with air pushes, be that a good or bad thing. People won't be suddenly getting more than 2 queens per hatch just because it's stronger. It doesn't make much sense to build additional queens for battle/defense since it's a waste of minerals and supply when you have stronger units for the same cost. | ||
|
cOoLiD
Canada168 Posts
On May 14 2012 03:10 Blizzaze wrote: People won't be suddenly getting more than 2 queens per hatch just because it's stronger. It doesn't make much sense to build additional queens for battle/defense since it's a waste of minerals and supply when you have stronger units for the same cost. Actually, they probably will considering that the queen doesn't cost any larva meaning Zergs can just drone, drone, drone safely. Also what zerg unit costs 150 minerals and no gas that is better than the queen? | ||
|
sirachman
United States270 Posts
| ||
|
IMoperator
4476 Posts
On May 14 2012 03:10 Blizzaze wrote: People won't be suddenly getting more than 2 queens per hatch just because it's stronger. It doesn't make much sense to build additional queens for battle/defense since it's a waste of minerals and supply when you have stronger units for the same cost. Actually you're wrong, I've been playing vs. gasless 4 queen style (a la spanishiwa) almost every game since the patch. It allows them to defend hellions and drone up quite easily while giving a ton of creep spread. | ||
|
IMoperator
4476 Posts
| ||
|
Garmer
1286 Posts
| ||
|
xUnSeEnx
United States183 Posts
On May 14 2012 04:33 IMoperator wrote: I'm losing almost every fucking game right now against zerg. This buff was really unnecessary, I have no idea what blizzard was thinking. You can't deny creep very well, and it just makes it easier to go lategame. really sad. Brosef, Switch to protoss and get free wins. Do not play terran until HoTs | ||
|
Sc2Null
United States3754 Posts
On May 14 2012 04:49 xUnSeEnx wrote: Brosef, Switch to protoss and get free wins. Do not play terran until HoTs I'm pretty sure you were already losing to every zerg..I'm also positive the +2 range of the queen had an affect on your losses. If you are going to make arguments like these, post replays. | ||
|
Narw
Poland884 Posts
| ||
|
quarkle
United Kingdom92 Posts
I've been playing Terran since sc2's release and thought I'd never switch but since switching to Zerg my win rate is around 85% (playing at low level) I think Terran takes a lot more skill to play which probably suits those with very high apm ...sadly my apm sucks but playing Zerg with low apm seems ok to me. It feels like slow motion compaired to the hectic Terran macro madness. I also love just how many early (cheese) game options Zerg have. Its so quick to rack up a load of very fast easy wins, I can almost feel the Terran pain having been one myself for so long when i march into their base with a load of roaches or go for a quick bane bust and totally wipe them out. lol One thing I noticed is Terrans are far less chilled out when being cheezed. Most either quit without a gg or start whining that playing cheese will never improve my gameplay. Strange that since my ladder ranking is climbing very fast.  I certainly don't play sc2 to lose games even if i am somehow percieved as a better player as a Terran. Winning is fun and the new zerg buff is going to make things even easier. | ||
|
s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
Will only work if the Zerg doesn't go early roaches though. | ||
|
Blizzaze
9 Posts
On May 14 2012 05:12 quarkle wrote: My best advice for weaker Terrans is to switch race to Zerg now.! I've been playing Terran since sc2's release and thought I'd never switch but since switching to Zerg my win rate is around 85% (playing at low level) I think Terran takes a lot more skill to play which probably suits those with very high apm ...sadly my apm sucks but playing Zerg with low apm seems ok to me. It feels like slow motion compaired to the hectic Terran macro madness. I also love just how many early (cheese) game options Zerg have. Its so quick to rack up a load of very fast easy wins, I can almost feel the Terran pain having been one myself for so long when i march into their base with a load of roaches or go for a quick bane bust and totally wipe them out. lol One thing I noticed is Terrans are far less chilled out when being cheezed. Most either quit without a gg or start whining that playing cheese will never improve my gameplay. Strange that since my ladder ranking is climbing very fast. I certainly don't play sc2 to lose games even if i am somehow percieved as a better player as a Terran. Winning is fun and the new zerg buff is going to make things even easier. You're one of those people that 7rr every game right? I was one of them, until I realized never playing macro games won't get me anywhere past gold league. Because that's where people start to be able to defend such cheese regularly and then you're done. | ||
|
VoO
Germany278 Posts
On May 14 2012 05:12 quarkle wrote: My best advice for weaker Terrans is to switch race to Zerg now.! I've been playing Terran since sc2's release and thought I'd never switch but since switching to Zerg my win rate is around 85% (playing at low level) I think Terran takes a lot more skill to play which probably suits those with very high apm ...sadly my apm sucks but playing Zerg with low apm seems ok to me. It feels like slow motion compaired to the hectic Terran macro madness. I also love just how many early (cheese) game options Zerg have. Its so quick to rack up a load of very fast easy wins, I can almost feel the Terran pain having been one myself for so long when i march into their base with a load of roaches or go for a quick bane bust and totally wipe them out. lol One thing I noticed is Terrans are far less chilled out when being cheezed. Most either quit without a gg or start whining that playing cheese will never improve my gameplay. Strange that since my ladder ranking is climbing very fast. I certainly don't play sc2 to lose games even if i am somehow percieved as a better player as a Terran. Winning is fun and the new zerg buff is going to make things even easier. Random Master. You need higher APM to do utilize Zerg. Terran is by far the most cheese-resistant race. Terran is the worst ladder race. That said, B doesn't balance for ladder. Ladder will always be imba, just pick the strongest race. | ||
|
][Primarch][
Sweden302 Posts
On May 14 2012 02:36 VPCursed wrote: problem with terran is, it takes a Professional player.. not a grandmaster to win in the late game.. you don't just copy a pro's unit composition and expect to do even half decent with it. This^ So very true, The skill-gap between the races is pretty big atm. If you want to play Terran on a decent level you have to be ready to outplay your opponent. "Terran Macro" will never reward you with getting that A-Move army. | ||
|
quarkle
United Kingdom92 Posts
On May 14 2012 05:52 Blizzaze wrote: You're one of those people that 7rr every game right? I was one of them, until I realized never playing macro games won't get me anywhere past gold league. Because that's where people start to be able to defend such cheese regularly and then you're done. I hate to admit it but yeah I've been dabbling with roach rushes, six pools and started bane busting and although I agree with you 100% that i'll never make the grade much beyond gold to be honest i am perfectly fine with that. After a few beers/smokes i don't need complications and actually enjoy the reaction i get when i cheese and have no real hunger to mix it up with high macro/micro based players. I just play for fun. Having said that even the pros fuck up against cheese so there's scope to take out any player at any level especially if they get greedy and don't scout and trust me there's a lot of greedy players out there. VoO, At the level I play Terran isn't really cheese resistant. yeah they can hold stuff off but for some reason unbeknown to me i just play better with zerg. even if i screw up my cheese in most games i can recover pretty well with zerg. recovery seems easier with zerg than terran. most of the terrans i am playing seem to totally overeact to any pressure and well it feels sweet. right now its my opinion at lower levels zerg is easier to win with and even if i lose at least it all happens rather quick. sadly my terran games most often took about 45 mins or more. especially tvt. now playing as a zerg games seem to end quick which enables me to pack more games in. as i said i play for fun i am not looking to really improve. | ||
| ||
