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One more thing that got touched on earlier. So the reaper, a fun unit and a good concept... where does this patch leave it? It's most practical, non cheese application was harassing zerg while you fast expand. A solid, micro and multitasking intensive build that is 100% nullified by this change. 50 HP does not last long when Queens can hit from 5 range out. The TvP and TvT variants of this build are somewhat effective, but not truly practical. That pretty much leaves the tvt SCPride reaper all in or the medivac reaper gsl build.
1) This change nerfs two micro intensive strategies: Hellion presure with queen kiting and pokes up the ramp / reaper harass early game. Is LESS micro seriously the way this game wants to head? I thought they talked to pros about balance changes sometimes?
2) I said it before but I am not afraid to spam this: TvZ is AWESOME. In my opinion it is a brood war quality matchup at this point. Balanced (ask the pros.... Top Z's do not mind playing T), exciting, and lots of ways to play it. The only problem is, before you can branch out into these exciting paths, T needs to stick to the same basic parameters early game: Make the Zerg feel a little pressure while you try to get into a sustainable position for the long game.
And seriously, it isn't May 2011. No competent zerg (gold and above at this point) is losing many drones to reactor hellion pressure any more. As a terran I am only looking for that if the zerg has seriously overlooked its basic defensive preperations. I am pressuring, testing their multi tasking and their micro, and building back at home.
And as a previous poster said... if Blizzard is saying that Terrans strength is it's early game... then why is it's early game getting nerfed so hard? Do they want me to go back to 11/11 all the time?
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On May 10 2012 14:18 Sajaki wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 14:09 ZenithM wrote:Even animation-wise it doesn't make any sense. It's obvious the Queen attack is more of a melee type rather than range projectiles or something. That's like raising Ultralisk range from 1 to 3. + Show Spoiler +Now THAT would be scary right? xD Oh god dont give blizzard ideas please.
Well they used to be able to attack ever unit around a pfort at teh same time so.
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On May 10 2012 14:44 KingOfAmerica wrote:
One more thing that got touched on earlier. So the reaper, a fun unit and a good concept... where does this patch leave it? It's most practical, non cheese application was harassing zerg while you fast expand. A solid, micro and multitasking intensive build that is 100% nullified by this change. 50 HP does not last long when Queens can hit from 5 range out. The TvP and TvT variants of this build are somewhat effective, but not truly practical. That pretty much leaves the tvt SCPride reaper all in or the medivac reaper gsl build.
1) This change nerfs two micro intensive strategies: Hellion presure with queen kiting and pokes up the ramp / reaper harass early game. Is LESS micro seriously the way this game wants to head? I thought they talked to pros about balance changes sometimes?
2) I said it before but I am not afraid to spam this: TvZ is AWESOME. In my opinion it is a brood war quality matchup at this point. Balanced (ask the pros.... Top Z's do not mind playing T), exciting, and lots of ways to play it. The only problem is, before you can branch out into these exciting paths, T needs to stick to the same basic parameters early game: Make the Zerg feel a little pressure while you try to get into a sustainable position for the long game.
And seriously, it isn't May 2011. No competent zerg (gold and above at this point) is losing many drones to reactor hellion pressure any more. As a terran I am only looking for that if the zerg has seriously overlooked its basic defensive preperations. I am pressuring, testing their multi tasking and their micro, and building back at home.
And as a previous poster said... if Blizzard is saying that Terrans strength is it's early game... then why is it's early game getting nerfed so hard? Do they want me to go back to 11/11 all the time?
as i understand, they stop asking pros so much cause guys like idra say t and p broken z huge buff plz etc etc so its useless ask them
so as i understand they more ask CASTERS and with that i really DONT get the queen buff Oo
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On May 10 2012 14:44 KingOfAmerica wrote:
One more thing that got touched on earlier. So the reaper, a fun unit and a good concept... where does this patch leave it? It's most practical, non cheese application was harassing zerg while you fast expand. A solid, micro and multitasking intensive build that is 100% nullified by this change. 50 HP does not last long when Queens can hit from 5 range out. The TvP and TvT variants of this build are somewhat effective, but not truly practical. That pretty much leaves the tvt SCPride reaper all in or the medivac reaper gsl build.
1) This change nerfs two micro intensive strategies: Hellion presure with queen kiting and pokes up the ramp / reaper harass early game. Is LESS micro seriously the way this game wants to head? I thought they talked to pros about balance changes sometimes?
2) I said it before but I am not afraid to spam this: TvZ is AWESOME. In my opinion it is a brood war quality matchup at this point. Balanced (ask the pros.... Top Z's do not mind playing T), exciting, and lots of ways to play it. The only problem is, before you can branch out into these exciting paths, T needs to stick to the same basic parameters early game: Make the Zerg feel a little pressure while you try to get into a sustainable position for the long game.
And seriously, it isn't May 2011. No competent zerg (gold and above at this point) is losing many drones to reactor hellion pressure any more. As a terran I am only looking for that if the zerg has seriously overlooked its basic defensive preperations. I am pressuring, testing their multi tasking and their micro, and building back at home.
And as a previous poster said... if Blizzard is saying that Terrans strength is it's early game... then why is it's early game getting nerfed so hard? Do they want me to go back to 11/11 all the time?
Reapers and hellions should get speed upgrades back and moving shot. Just allow them to be infinitely micro-able and you're good.
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On May 10 2012 14:46 CoR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 14:44 KingOfAmerica wrote:
One more thing that got touched on earlier. So the reaper, a fun unit and a good concept... where does this patch leave it? It's most practical, non cheese application was harassing zerg while you fast expand. A solid, micro and multitasking intensive build that is 100% nullified by this change. 50 HP does not last long when Queens can hit from 5 range out. The TvP and TvT variants of this build are somewhat effective, but not truly practical. That pretty much leaves the tvt SCPride reaper all in or the medivac reaper gsl build.
1) This change nerfs two micro intensive strategies: Hellion presure with queen kiting and pokes up the ramp / reaper harass early game. Is LESS micro seriously the way this game wants to head? I thought they talked to pros about balance changes sometimes?
2) I said it before but I am not afraid to spam this: TvZ is AWESOME. In my opinion it is a brood war quality matchup at this point. Balanced (ask the pros.... Top Z's do not mind playing T), exciting, and lots of ways to play it. The only problem is, before you can branch out into these exciting paths, T needs to stick to the same basic parameters early game: Make the Zerg feel a little pressure while you try to get into a sustainable position for the long game.
And seriously, it isn't May 2011. No competent zerg (gold and above at this point) is losing many drones to reactor hellion pressure any more. As a terran I am only looking for that if the zerg has seriously overlooked its basic defensive preperations. I am pressuring, testing their multi tasking and their micro, and building back at home.
And as a previous poster said... if Blizzard is saying that Terrans strength is it's early game... then why is it's early game getting nerfed so hard? Do they want me to go back to 11/11 all the time?
as i understand, they stop asking pros so much cause guys like idra say t and p broken z huge buff plz etc etc so its useless ask them so as i understand they more ask CASTERS and with that i really DONT get the queen buff Oo
Force a change in the animation so casters can no longer comment on the queen "Head Tickle"?
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I just realized this is also the last time goody builds any bio vs z. His patented reaper-bunker opening 
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On May 10 2012 14:43 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 14:31 Crow! wrote:I thought they did remove thor energy in a patch and put strike cannon on cool down like a year and a half ago...? I haven't played since 2nd-3rd season of GSL but what happened? What happened was Terrans just massed Thors and there was nothing Toss could do about it because the only units in the Protoss arsenal that do ok vs Thors are Carriers (lolfail) and Immortals, which the Strike cannons removed without any opportunity for the supposed counter to the Thors to even shoot. IMO if Zerg really needs Hydralisks, Blizzard should just give Zerg Hydralisks rather than turn Queens into non-sucky Hydras. Also, what harass was Zerg struggling with? Watching streams has been showing me Terrans epically failing with Hellions and Reapers, but crushing face with proxy 2rax. The OL change might help the 2rax, but the Queen range change really isn't going to do anything there; those games are decided before the Queen pops out. So they added energy back and rendered the unit completely useless in that matchup yet again? Standard for Blizzard I guess... I suppose now I can understand the terran tears after all these nerfs.
Mass Thor was never considered OP, Blizzard cited a disliking for the aesthetics of mass Thor as the reason to revert the cooldown Strike Cannon change.
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^^^ at post above, yeah i could see a reaper move shot being employed and actually make the unit used more, but hellions are FINE as is.
i love the obs change, but the queen stuff is going to make harassing zerg even harder, and since zerg is just drone drone drone, now timing attacks and going to be more popular and i would like harass to be but this will null that.
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Canada16217 Posts
About the reaper no longer being effective the reaper is meant to control the map and do harass to the zerg now the harass on the zerg is significantly lowered and is more for map control vs zerg due to the fact that most zerg don't go speed first before there first expansion so slow lings can't beat reapers. Still has some use.. but probably will not be seen much if at all due to the queen ground attack range increase.
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A TERRAN BUFF! FINALLY! Huehuehue.
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Matchup seems balanced - time to buff zerg.
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Agree:
Terran
* Bunker is not changed
was the best laugh I had today! :D And I'm a happy person that laugh alot! 
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Well this might as well be a buff for Terran considering the sheer amount of nerfs we went through.
Sigh. Might as well switch to Toss.
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This is a joke..... queen range increase will completely make reapers useless in early game TvZ, simply useless. Reaper bunker rushes will be impossible to pull off as well, and you'll be extremely lucky to ever get a scout off with them or kill a single drone. Not to mention how impossible it will be to keep map control and harass with Helions with 5 range queens... no more kiting, just a joke.
Don't know why Blizzard says how they want to make the reaper more viable and they aren't seeing it much in competitive play then they make it completely obsolete with this stupid Queen buff, not to mention Helions power in TvZ will be extremely reduced... we will likely not see any 2 Factory reactor helion all in or 2 fact blue flame helion anymore, runbys will be neigh impossible, probably will hardly ever see 13 gas anymore as well, as they'res simply no reason to rush out helions when queens with 5 range are out.. just can't do damage so whats the point.
Oh, not to mention the viability of bunker rushes/marine pokes will be extremely limited now.. going to be impossible to get the marines to do any damage or get a single bunker up when Queens are up.
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Completely kill the reaper ,i wonder why blizzard still hire this balance team .
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On May 10 2012 14:51 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 14:43 Dosey wrote:On May 10 2012 14:31 Crow! wrote:I thought they did remove thor energy in a patch and put strike cannon on cool down like a year and a half ago...? I haven't played since 2nd-3rd season of GSL but what happened? What happened was Terrans just massed Thors and there was nothing Toss could do about it because the only units in the Protoss arsenal that do ok vs Thors are Carriers (lolfail) and Immortals, which the Strike cannons removed without any opportunity for the supposed counter to the Thors to even shoot. IMO if Zerg really needs Hydralisks, Blizzard should just give Zerg Hydralisks rather than turn Queens into non-sucky Hydras. Also, what harass was Zerg struggling with? Watching streams has been showing me Terrans epically failing with Hellions and Reapers, but crushing face with proxy 2rax. The OL change might help the 2rax, but the Queen range change really isn't going to do anything there; those games are decided before the Queen pops out. So they added energy back and rendered the unit completely useless in that matchup yet again? Standard for Blizzard I guess... I suppose now I can understand the terran tears after all these nerfs. Mass Thor was never considered OP, Blizzard cited a disliking for the aesthetics of mass Thor as the reason to revert the cooldown Strike Cannon change.
Yes, because massing marines and marauders is so much fun to watch over and over again. It was pretty funny how that build got used like once or twice and then it was immediately nerfed.
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As Protoss player I'm happy with the change although buffing zerg always makes me worried 
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Wait a min they had thought to change something of the bunker at some point? I thought there was not even a mention of terran in this mini patch?
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On May 10 2012 15:03 fallenknight wrote:
Wait a min they had thought to change something of the bunker at some point? I thought there was not even a mention of terran in this mini patch?
I believe the OP is joking. Obviously, the bunker is unchanged, but he is highlighting that fact by specifically mentioning it (whereas the blizzard post does not).
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wow queen is now banshee, hellion, reaper and bunker save. Well she was before but now you basically have no chance to avoid damage when 2 or more queens are out. I really liked terran early aggression with bunkers or reapers, it was fun to play and fun to watch, so i am curious why Blizzard decided to stab it, as i never saw a problem there, from the zerg side.
Guess marauder openings will become standard now, as there is no other way to make a zerg feel unsafe x3.
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EPT
