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On May 10 2012 14:15 bokchoi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 14:14 KiNGxXx wrote:On May 10 2012 14:07 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 14:04 Rygasm wrote:
Remove energy on thor/ battle cruise plz If you do that, Strike cannon and Yamato on cooldowns? that would be a bit borked. unless the cooldown was quite large. Remove strike cannon and yamato, too. I think all terrans would be fine with it. Yamato has its uses and serves its purpose. Strike Cannon on the otherhand takes way too long and Thors are so clunky and clumsy you never see it used.
I thought they did remove thor energy in a patch and put strike cannon on cool down like a year and a half ago...? I haven't played since 2nd-3rd season of GSL but what happened?
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On May 10 2012 14:09 ZenithM wrote:Even animation-wise it doesn't make any sense. It's obvious the Queen attack is more of a melee type rather than range projectiles or something. That's like raising Ultralisk range from 1 to 3. + Show Spoiler +Now THAT would be scary right? xD
Oh god dont give blizzard ideas please.
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dont see how observers need to be build faster
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Excellent work Blizzard! Thanks for balancing the game even further 
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On May 10 2012 14:09 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 14:06 Dosey wrote:On May 10 2012 13:48 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 13:43 Inty wrote:On May 10 2012 13:35 sc14s wrote:On May 10 2012 13:32 doffe wrote:On May 10 2012 13:23 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 13:19 s3rp wrote:On May 10 2012 13:12 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 13:10 s3rp wrote:
[quote]
Its not . Siege Tanks deal have bigger Splash than Seeker Missiles . At best the first target gets hit for 100 , 1-2 targets get hit for 50 and 2-3 get hit for 25. Seeker Missile is good against Air Units since they stack up easily but against ground its just bad.
Why not add tanks then, Its very hard to engage a terran force backed up by seige tanks. Because Sieged tanks don't move .... . The late Terran army need to avoid the masses of AOE Protoss has with kiting. Sieged tanks kind of not move .... . I mean they barely have more HP then Marauders and can't be healed as easily. They dont need to move if you engage properly, you can put them behind your army and kite back to the safety of seige tanks. There has to be units other than MMMVG to use against protoss late game. Instead of rejecting every unit except those, try to work out a way to use units with insane splash damage late game. the problem is that chargelots make siegetanks costinefficient due to splash on own units. You can try to use them all you want but as long as chargelots autoconnect and siegetanks splash friendlies I doubt they will be implented other then in a few timing attacks or maybe to defend locations where your army is not. And the second issue is upgrades. While the toss army share upgrades across the board a few 0-0 siegetanks wont do much against 3-3 armies. And upgrading both mech and bio is not realistic when the mechuse is so limited. so so wrong <.< i've seen plenty of games from MKP and MVP in particular where they work wonders.. so i have to completely disagree with you considering those two are certainly some of the top Ts in the world. Seige tanks are good against protoss in the early to mid game before charge and templar colossi, and archons are present. It is also before protoss begins to get a lot of ground upgrades and everyone is at 0-0 maybe 1-1. After this it becomes unfeasible to upgrade air attack, bio, and mech upgrades while getting vikings and medivacs meaning your tanks will be severely out upgraded. Add to that the fact that chargelots auto hit your army causing your tanks to do more aoe to your army(dying easier to storm/colossi) you end up doing more harm than good with tanks. The supply/cost is better used on vikings and ghosts. These are the reasons why pro players( including mvp and mkp) only get tanks for certain 1-1-1 builds (including expo into 1-1-1) and then stop producing as they transition into 3 base economy. They have the same range as colossi yeah? if so couldn't your bio deal with zeals while tanks and vikings deal with colossi? seems like they both fit a similar role but siege tanks are more fragile if you loose the battle, cant run away very easily. there has to be a way use your gas, whether it be more upgrades for your existing units, or upgrades and higher tech units. I guess Terran will keep complaining until a Pro figures out a way to use units out of the standard composition(which is fair enough :D) That would require micro! How dare you suggest that a Terran should do anything but press "1" "T" "A" The NERVE! I want to see you dodge storms and kite while making sure tanks don't friendly fire. Its impossible to tell tanks to not fire they will allways shoot at something . Even 1-2 shots of FF against a Bioball can be devastating ( Marines have only 55 HP and Marauders get bonus damage ) . If tanks had a hold fire button ( like Ghosts have ) adding tanks in TvP actually could work. But they don't have that.
Not saying tanks are good in TvP, but if Terrans can target fire blings which are considerably smaller than Colo and split them while dodging fungals, then they should be able to target Colo and dodge storms.
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On May 10 2012 14:17 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 14:15 bokchoi wrote:On May 10 2012 14:14 KiNGxXx wrote:On May 10 2012 14:07 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 14:04 Rygasm wrote:
Remove energy on thor/ battle cruise plz If you do that, Strike cannon and Yamato on cooldowns? that would be a bit borked. unless the cooldown was quite large. Remove strike cannon and yamato, too. I think all terrans would be fine with it. Yamato has its uses and serves its purpose. Strike Cannon on the otherhand takes way too long and Thors are so clunky and clumsy you never see it used. I thought they did remove thor energy in a patch and put strike cannon on cool down like a year and a half ago...? I haven't played since 2nd-3rd season of GSL but what happened?
Thor energy was reinstated when Thorzain made it clear that mass thor was OP against Protoss. With the energy, Feedback provides a way for Protoss to counter it.
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Will be interesting to see how things play out. Blizzard has shown in the past that if one of their changes proves to be too much they have no problem reverting or altering the change, but it'll take information gathered from games to determine that.
Overlord change seems reasonable, queen change is a bit more up in the air (kinda wonder if that makes for new stuff in ZvZ...even though I'm not a zerg player it would at least be interesting to see more offensive queens in that matchup, though I understand this is largely aimed at ZvT).
Curious about the obs change. Obs will be out at about the same time if you used to chrono it, but now decide to use that elsewhere, which is an interesting decision, or can obviously be gotten out faster if you still chrono it. Will have to see how it plays out, but that 10 second timing is quite intriguing.
Edit: Oh, and like many others, got a bit of a kick out of the bunker note. Well played, OP.
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Very pleased about these patchnotes. Less abuse in the early game ty. (or atleast Terran will have to find new ways)
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Nerf the bunker ffs! And buff rax build, so they can be reverted in the next patch 
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On May 10 2012 14:26 Kaiyotic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 14:17 Dosey wrote:On May 10 2012 14:15 bokchoi wrote:On May 10 2012 14:14 KiNGxXx wrote:On May 10 2012 14:07 m!st wrote:On May 10 2012 14:04 Rygasm wrote:
Remove energy on thor/ battle cruise plz If you do that, Strike cannon and Yamato on cooldowns? that would be a bit borked. unless the cooldown was quite large. Remove strike cannon and yamato, too. I think all terrans would be fine with it. Yamato has its uses and serves its purpose. Strike Cannon on the otherhand takes way too long and Thors are so clunky and clumsy you never see it used. I thought they did remove thor energy in a patch and put strike cannon on cool down like a year and a half ago...? I haven't played since 2nd-3rd season of GSL but what happened? Thor energy was reinstated when Thorzain made it clear that mass thor was OP against Protoss. With the energy, Feedback provides a way for Protoss to counter it.
lol... that was the initial reason for removing it in the first place wasn't it? Feedback was just way too cost effective against the cumbersome thor.
Jesus I've missed a lot in the past year. I need to find some VODs
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On May 10 2012 14:19 AgentChaos wrote:
dont see how observers need to be build faster
When it comes to detection, Protoss is in a very bad state. I'm glad for it, maybe we'll now see whole maps vision covered by protoss ^^
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I thought they did remove thor energy in a patch and put strike cannon on cool down like a year and a half ago...? I haven't played since 2nd-3rd season of GSL but what happened?
What happened was Terrans just massed Thors and there was nothing Toss could do about it because the only units in the Protoss arsenal that do ok vs Thors are Carriers (lolfail) and Immortals, which the Strike cannons removed without any opportunity for the supposed counter to the Thors to even shoot.
IMO if Zerg really needs Hydralisks, Blizzard should just give Zerg Hydralisks rather than turn Queens into non-sucky Hydras.
Also, what harass was Zerg struggling with? Watching streams has been showing me Terrans epically failing with Hellions and Reapers, but crushing face with proxy 2rax. The OL change might help the 2rax, but the Queen range change really isn't going to do anything there; those games are decided before the Queen pops out.
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I'd rather they just make colossus slower, with a more powerful attack, so you didn't have to build them non-stop. If you want more observers, maybe you should have to commit to 2 robos or making tough decisions. Queen range seems good, though.
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this is real? the queen really got that range buff? so terran effectivity vs all races is now an even shorter time period. How can the competitive scene of this game last if they keep breaking what's already broken. this is ridiculous
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The Overlord and Obs changes are nice to reflect the fact that maps are now larger than they were when those numbers were originally balanced, so it's a nice extra little boost to get your scouting stuff across the map in time.
But I'm kind of shocked the queen buff made it. It's like when they realized the 50 energy thing was too much, they panicked and threw in a random queen buff just to have something...
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What's the justification behind queen range?
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but, baneling drop in pvz could be a huge problem now with faster overlords ...
or wait its just for the slow ones so its fine then ^^
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Queen range makes me so sad. End of reapers tvz T_T
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Blizzard mentioned specifically it wasn't a balance patch, but a simple update. I wonder what this means for the future of SC2 "patching" (less replay reloading?)
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On May 10 2012 14:31 Crow! wrote:Show nested quote +I thought they did remove thor energy in a patch and put strike cannon on cool down like a year and a half ago...? I haven't played since 2nd-3rd season of GSL but what happened? What happened was Terrans just massed Thors and there was nothing Toss could do about it because the only units in the Protoss arsenal that do ok vs Thors are Carriers (lolfail) and Immortals, which the Strike cannons removed without any opportunity for the supposed counter to the Thors to even shoot. IMO if Zerg really needs Hydralisks, Blizzard should just give Zerg Hydralisks rather than turn Queens into non-sucky Hydras. Also, what harass was Zerg struggling with? Watching streams has been showing me Terrans epically failing with Hellions and Reapers, but crushing face with proxy 2rax. The OL change might help the 2rax, but the Queen range change really isn't going to do anything there; those games are decided before the Queen pops out.
So they added energy back and rendered the unit completely useless in that matchup yet again?
Standard for Blizzard I guess...
I suppose now I can understand the terran tears after all these nerfs.
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EPT
