• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:22
CEST 09:22
KST 16:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou14Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four0BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET6Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO85.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)80
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (March 17-23): Clem Bounces Back DreamHack Open 2013 revealed The New Patch Killed Mech!
Tourneys
$1,200 WardiTV October (Oct 21st-31st) SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 INu's Battles #13 - ByuN vs Zoun Tenacious Turtle Tussle Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers
Brood War
General
Is there anyway to get a private coach? BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Season 21 OGN to release AI-upscaled StarLeague from Feb 24
Tourneys
300$ 3D!Community Brood War Super Cup #4 [ASL20] Semifinal B Azhi's Colosseum - Anonymous Tournament [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Current Meta Roaring Currents ASL final [I] Funny Protoss Builds/Strategies BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Chess Thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Men's Fashion Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Certified Crazy
Hildegard
The Heroism of Pepe the Fro…
Peanutsc
Rocket League: Traits, Abili…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1194 users

Patch 1.4.3.2 - Page 25

Forum Index > SC2 General
2059 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 23 24 25 26 27 103 Next
YuMSc2
Profile Joined April 2010
Switzerland104 Posts
May 10 2012 06:23 GMT
#481
observer buff is actually pretty darn good since 1. Faster scouting 2. More robo units early game to defend early/mid game timing pushes. As a Protoss player, this is awesome news xD. As for queen buff........ T.T ovie speed is good though since z had a lot of trouble scouting early game and maps are huge
I think therefore I am
Sein
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1811 Posts
May 10 2012 06:25 GMT
#482
Reactions in here after reading a dozen pages:
Terran: This is ridiculous. Blizzard's balance team is clearly incompetent. RIP Hellions and Reapers.
Zerg: Thank Blizzard for getting rid of those cheesy Terran all-ins!
Protoss: HAHAHAHAHA. No bunker change. GET IT? GET IT?
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-10 06:27:08
May 10 2012 06:26 GMT
#483
Well yeah, Terran lategame is inferior to the Protoss lategame, therefore Terrans need to exploit their strong midgame to damage Protoss and get an advantage going into lategame.

PS. 15 hatch 16 pool'ing Zergs are weak to rushes so we're going to make overlords faster to make up for not drone-scouting. Also good Terrans were able to force spinecrawlers and lings with good hellion vs queen micro, so we increased Queen range to make this problem go away. Conveniently this also makes the reaper worse in the matchup, we're looking at removing the D8 charge building attack with HotS if the problem persists.
I think esports is pretty nice.
Doraki
Profile Joined February 2011
United States9 Posts
May 10 2012 06:26 GMT
#484
On May 10 2012 14:46 CoR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 14:44 KingOfAmerica wrote:
One more thing that got touched on earlier. So the reaper, a fun unit and a good concept... where does this patch leave it? It's most practical, non cheese application was harassing zerg while you fast expand. A solid, micro and multitasking intensive build that is 100% nullified by this change. 50 HP does not last long when Queens can hit from 5 range out. The TvP and TvT variants of this build are somewhat effective, but not truly practical. That pretty much leaves the tvt SCPride reaper all in or the medivac reaper gsl build.

1) This change nerfs two micro intensive strategies: Hellion presure with queen kiting and pokes up the ramp / reaper harass early game. Is LESS micro seriously the way this game wants to head? I thought they talked to pros about balance changes sometimes?

2) I said it before but I am not afraid to spam this: TvZ is AWESOME. In my opinion it is a brood war quality matchup at this point. Balanced (ask the pros.... Top Z's do not mind playing T), exciting, and lots of ways to play it. The only problem is, before you can branch out into these exciting paths, T needs to stick to the same basic parameters early game: Make the Zerg feel a little pressure while you try to get into a sustainable position for the long game.

And seriously, it isn't May 2011. No competent zerg (gold and above at this point) is losing many drones to reactor hellion pressure any more. As a terran I am only looking for that if the zerg has seriously overlooked its basic defensive preperations. I am pressuring, testing their multi tasking and their micro, and building back at home.

And as a previous poster said... if Blizzard is saying that Terrans strength is it's early game... then why is it's early game getting nerfed so hard? Do they want me to go back to 11/11 all the time?



as i understand, they stop asking pros so much cause guys like idra say t and p broken z huge buff plz etc etc so its useless ask them
so as i understand they more ask CASTERS and with that i really DONT get the queen buff Oo


LOL when does idra say tvz is broken idras tvz is spectacular now its pretty much going to be perfect. Also pvz right now is terrible for z in the gsl right now p win rate vs z is like 85%..... I know its just the currant meta game but pvz made me quit zerg. Anyways PLEASE don't ask casters about balance issues 90% of casters who cast shouldn't even be talking and say some stupid things in my op the best casters are people who use to be or are pro players. But i agree i don't like the protoss and zerg buffs they should have fixed the most broken thing....... lol jk.
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
May 10 2012 06:26 GMT
#485
On May 10 2012 15:17 Ghanburighan wrote:
I can see Blizz backtracking on these changes pretty quickly. The overlord speed will stay, ofc, but I cannot imagine terrans winning much at all when P and Z learns (in a month or two) to properly utilize these changes.


So terrans will stop winning against protoss entirely, because the observer is a few seconds faster.
... I dont even...
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-10 06:30:41
May 10 2012 06:27 GMT
#486
On May 10 2012 15:20 MostGroce wrote:
Queens cost a lot more than hellions and should be able to work better against them. Queens are still very slow compared to hellions and also do very little damage. Bring an scv to repair maybe, or a little micro maybe involved. I still fear for creep's life.

You're talking about a difference of 50 minerals. And queens are much more quickly available. And you don't need gas to get them. And hellions don't damage them very well. It already requires a fair bit of micro to get any longevity out of hellions when trying to deny creep early on. This change is moronic.
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3438 Posts
May 10 2012 06:28 GMT
#487
Time to win vs zerg the coming week, because everyone is going mass queens, but then after that week get totally owned cuz of the actual changes. 25% is so big, does anyone know if this affects the overseer aswell? or upgraded overlords, cuz i feel then overlord drops are far too insane.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
Zealot Lord
Profile Joined May 2010
Hong Kong747 Posts
May 10 2012 06:28 GMT
#488
I approve of the OL & observer speed buffs personally.

Queen one seems a bit drastic, will have to see the implications of it in some high level TvZ's first to determine whether it was the right move or not.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
May 10 2012 06:29 GMT
#489
On May 10 2012 15:26 TheAntZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 15:17 Ghanburighan wrote:
I can see Blizz backtracking on these changes pretty quickly. The overlord speed will stay, ofc, but I cannot imagine terrans winning much at all when P and Z learns (in a month or two) to properly utilize these changes.


So terrans will stop winning against protoss entirely, because the observer is a few seconds faster.
... I dont even...


Notice how your words and my words are different. You have enough posts on TL to know better.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
mophideus
Profile Joined September 2011
United States7 Posts
May 10 2012 06:30 GMT
#490
wow terrans are complaining a lot? Is it really that bad or just qq?
-KarakStarcraft-
Profile Joined September 2010
United States258 Posts
May 10 2012 06:31 GMT
#491
lol at all the terrans freaking out. Have you ever watched how long it takes a queen to kill a hellion, much less 4 hellions? Have you seen how fast hellions are?

These are very good changes, especially the OL speed change. OL speed change is about 1.5 years too late.
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
May 10 2012 06:33 GMT
#492
On May 10 2012 15:30 mophideus wrote:
wow terrans are complaining a lot? Is it really that bad or just qq?

The queen buff gives them equal range to hellions and marines and slightly better than a reaper. It makes reaper openings completely useless in terms of ability to deal damage and significantly nerfs reactor hellion openers as well as bunker rushes.

It's a big deal.
Dephy
Profile Joined January 2011
Lithuania163 Posts
May 10 2012 06:34 GMT
#493
On May 10 2012 15:20 MostGroce wrote:
Queens cost a lot more than hellions and should be able to work better against them. Queens are still very slow compared to hellions and also do very little damage. Bring an scv to repair maybe, or a little micro maybe involved. I still fear for creep's life.

what are smoking? Hellions cost 100mineral each and deal minimal damage to units that are not light, it takes ages for 4helions to kill a queen(400vs150) and if zerg doesnt have spine/lings ready, you better off just runby queen and roast some drones.
This change makes greedy zerg's opening more greedy, as zerg will be able walloff and put queen to block, since now queen and helions will be same range, you dont even need to worry about hellions tryed to kite her, and you now can build spine crawler even later, or dont build it at all.
LuckyMacro
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1482 Posts
May 10 2012 06:34 GMT
#494
ogs inca throwing his keyboard on the ground.
Chr15t
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark1103 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-10 06:44:23
May 10 2012 06:35 GMT
#495
As a terran player im really happy with these changes.

Now that early game harass/unexpected build options will be limited , due to better scouting from P and Z . I see blizzard HAVE to deal with Terran lategame, when T comes equal into lategame against Infestor BL , or Collossi Templar. ;D

Rough few months for sure . But if this Doesnt result in a lot of lategame losses for T i'll be surpriced . // which should make blizzard look into that aspect.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Integra
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden5626 Posts
May 10 2012 06:36 GMT
#496
On May 10 2012 15:34 Dephy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 15:20 MostGroce wrote:
Queens cost a lot more than hellions and should be able to work better against them. Queens are still very slow compared to hellions and also do very little damage. Bring an scv to repair maybe, or a little micro maybe involved. I still fear for creep's life.

what are smoking? Hellions cost 100mineral each and deal minimal damage to units that are not light, it takes ages for 4helions to kill a queen(400vs150) and if zerg doesnt have spine/lings ready, you better off just runby queen and roast some drones.
This change makes greedy zerg's opening more greedy, as zerg will be able walloff and put queen to block, since now queen and helions will be same range, you dont even need to worry about hellions tryed to kite her, and you now can build spine crawler even later, or dont build it at all.

Where you actually could create a block the range of the queen never was a problem since you used a sunken with the block thus protecting the queen.
"Dark Pleasure" | | I survived the Locust war of May 3, 2014
mophideus
Profile Joined September 2011
United States7 Posts
May 10 2012 06:37 GMT
#497
hellions will still kill queens… they will just be damaged in the process. I think these are good changes.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
May 10 2012 06:38 GMT
#498
On May 10 2012 15:30 mophideus wrote:
wow terrans are complaining a lot? Is it really that bad or just qq?


You will notice that there are currently four different threads where the same concerns are being voiced by terrans (Flash's comments, the tester map thread, Blizz's TvP comments and now this one). There have been a lot of comments also due to so many terrans losing in GSL, the overall lack of success of foreign terrans compared to other foreigners and also the last months TLPD balance swinging quite badly against terrans. To have blizzard then buff both Z and P is obviously going to seem outrageous to every terran that has posted in those threads.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
phame21
Profile Joined August 2011
Australia43 Posts
May 10 2012 06:38 GMT
#499
I wish there was some way to negate the forcefield in the early game. at least within the zerg's base. like drone explosion.
you sacrifice a drone to dispell one forcefield would be nice.
That logic is post hoc ergo proctor hoc
Serimek
Profile Joined August 2011
France2274 Posts
May 10 2012 06:38 GMT
#500
Reapers gonna be reaped.

Why just on EU and US ?
SC2 is the best game to watch and was the best to play before I grew old and slow...
Prev 1 23 24 25 26 27 103 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Monday
00:00
#54
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 2
StarCraft: Brood War
Aegong 64
ToSsGirL 45
Mong 1
Dota 2
canceldota48
XaKoH 45
XcaliburYe7
League of Legends
JimRising 727
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K760
Coldzera 285
Other Games
summit1g7144
WinterStarcraft421
ceh9291
Tasteless169
Hui .122
Mew2King76
Trikslyr14
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick845
Counter-Strike
PGL272
Other Games
BasetradeTV56
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 32
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 28
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV712
League of Legends
• Lourlo1326
• Jankos1006
• Stunt683
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 38m
OSC
8h 38m
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
15h 38m
The PondCast
1d 2h
OSC
1d 4h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Online Event
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Snow vs Soma
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.