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The overlord speed and observer change seem alright--that is, they seem reasonable changes to test--but the Queen starting energy idea seems absurd. I cannot fathom that working in a balanced or fair manner.
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On May 04 2012 02:18 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:15 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:09 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 01:59 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 01:24 one-one-one wrote:On May 04 2012 00:59 aintthatfunny wrote:On May 04 2012 00:28 one-one-one wrote:On May 03 2012 23:51 kcdc wrote:
Really Blizzard? Zerg is the one with weak early game scouting? You know there's a race with no early flying, cliff-walking or even fast units, right? You troll. Protoss has the stalker, which is a fast unit. In PvT you can pretty much always find out if the terran is taking an expansion by poking the front. If you don't feel safe, put down a robo and chronoboost your observer. No one forces you to play super greedy builds that skips out early observers. No you can't. He can make a bunker on top of his ramp with inbase CC, forcing you to make a fast robo, skip sentries in favor of stalker incase of hellion rine pushes etc. cut probes AND make 4/5 gateways. No, how come people just spit out things that are wrong. If he has inbase CC he will soon lift it out. If you scout a bunker you will have enough map control to be able to poke his natural a bit later. If he is 1 baseing you can usually find out what he is up to with a fast robo. There are some quick hellion drops and stuff, but keep in mind that he might as well proxy stuff. Starcraft is a game of incomplete information. You are not going to see exactly what your opponent is doing every game, you will have to rely on game sense which is gained by playing a lot of games where you don't have the mindset: "if my opponent does x I HAVE to do x and y and z", because it is most likely not true. As a constructive tip I recomend you to go watch some BW vods with english commentary and you will sometimes see players with insanely good game sense managing to figure out and counter proxy- and cheese-builds. There are also some Day[9] dailies I would recommend. The first one is about "pinning your opponent on a build" http://blip.tv/file/5219824The second one is about eliminating assumptions http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-400-p1-special-episode-eliminating-assumptions-5888689 I'll just state the most obvious flaw in your statement. Protoss can't figure out if the Terran went CC until he moves it out, by which time they will be really ahead because we will have to put down our Nexus while theirs is alreacy completed. And we can't go Nexus first because Terran could be doing some cheese or aggressive build. You're not looking hard enough at Terran builds if you really think that's true. You can tell a lot about gas timing and expansion timing with an initial scout probe and stalker, as long as you know what to look for. After that point, you can tailor your build to their expected strat, while taking precautions to cover any wonky inefficient strats. What world do you live on? That may be true at GM level, but below that timings mean nothing. You can't expect every Terran to play perfectly, and hit all the timings. And because they don't hit these timings it messes up what we think they are doing. Essentially timings of gas and buildings mean nothing at the lower level because they don't play nearly as perfect as the Pro players. If it's at the level where timings don't matter, scouting doesn't matter much either. A tightly executed build will simply win outright.
No, scouting does matter because you can see what he his making. If you only look at timings you can only ASSUME what he is doing. Scouting gives you basically 100% guarantee what he is doing, timings only suggest it.
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Despite the changes, its good to see Blizzard getting involved with the community more.
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On May 04 2012 02:16 Letall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:12 MilesTeg wrote:
I'm a Zerg player and I don't like any of the changes. I think the game is pretty balanced. The scouting problem are going to be fixed once people learn to be a bit more aggressive. The queen energy buff is simply ludicrous, way overpowered. What does that mean? If ur gonna all-in then you dont really need to scout but if you are planning on playing a macro game you have to scout, right? In my opinion all the changes look really good, maybe now terran wont be able to delay a thrid for ages with just four helions,
In ZvT going for little pokes with roach lings, which a lot of pros are doing, gives you the best scouting information, and can do some damage if they go for heavy tech or eco builds. In ZvP you don't really need to scout. It can help in ZvZ though I guess.
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On May 04 2012 02:16 _vk_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:13 Jakkerr wrote:On May 04 2012 02:11 PanN wrote:On May 04 2012 02:10 Jakkerr wrote:
Don't like any of the changes.
Overlord speed probably has some use for early game scouting, but a good zerg allready has overlords all over the map so it's impossible to properly drop them without them knowing it 30 seconds in advance.
Queen energy just doesn't feel needed, off course zerg players will like it but I don't see the need of it.
Observer change won't change anything, 10 seconds off no1 cares.
Those changes seem to be made to give protoss and zerg more early game scouting vs Terran but I don't think this is the right way for it. 10 seconds earlier observer won't change a thing and even with increased overlord speed a Terran will have a bunch of marines ready to instantly snipe the overlord. Overlord speed will change absolutely nothing involving drops. You are aware the overlord speed change is for SCOUTING TECH right? Overlord placement for drops is extremely simple and speed has never been a factor. I meant that with overlord spread it's pretty easy to spot banshee openers from miles away, in that time u can easily build a spore crawler. All other terran openers can be scouted by sending 2 zerglings to the terran base and check if he's doing factory based or rax based stuff. Please elaborate on the bolded part. How do you check to see if he's doing a marauder-hellion all-in, for example?
There is still something in Starcraft called assumption.
The game would be pretty fkin easy if u knew EXACTLY what ur opponent was doing every game don't you think?
When you don't scout a gas vs a terran as protoss u assume a 15CC and FE urself, but how do you know for sure that there isn't a 2nd rax somewhere on the map and ur getting marine scv allined.
That's how cheese works  ur not supposed to scout it or it sucks.
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On May 04 2012 02:19 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:15 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:09 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 01:59 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 01:24 one-one-one wrote:On May 04 2012 00:59 aintthatfunny wrote:On May 04 2012 00:28 one-one-one wrote:On May 03 2012 23:51 kcdc wrote:
Really Blizzard? Zerg is the one with weak early game scouting? You know there's a race with no early flying, cliff-walking or even fast units, right? You troll. Protoss has the stalker, which is a fast unit. In PvT you can pretty much always find out if the terran is taking an expansion by poking the front. If you don't feel safe, put down a robo and chronoboost your observer. No one forces you to play super greedy builds that skips out early observers. No you can't. He can make a bunker on top of his ramp with inbase CC, forcing you to make a fast robo, skip sentries in favor of stalker incase of hellion rine pushes etc. cut probes AND make 4/5 gateways. No, how come people just spit out things that are wrong. If he has inbase CC he will soon lift it out. If you scout a bunker you will have enough map control to be able to poke his natural a bit later. If he is 1 baseing you can usually find out what he is up to with a fast robo. There are some quick hellion drops and stuff, but keep in mind that he might as well proxy stuff. Starcraft is a game of incomplete information. You are not going to see exactly what your opponent is doing every game, you will have to rely on game sense which is gained by playing a lot of games where you don't have the mindset: "if my opponent does x I HAVE to do x and y and z", because it is most likely not true. As a constructive tip I recomend you to go watch some BW vods with english commentary and you will sometimes see players with insanely good game sense managing to figure out and counter proxy- and cheese-builds. There are also some Day[9] dailies I would recommend. The first one is about "pinning your opponent on a build" http://blip.tv/file/5219824The second one is about eliminating assumptions http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-400-p1-special-episode-eliminating-assumptions-5888689 I'll just state the most obvious flaw in your statement. Protoss can't figure out if the Terran went CC until he moves it out, by which time they will be really ahead because we will have to put down our Nexus while theirs is alreacy completed. And we can't go Nexus first because Terran could be doing some cheese or aggressive build. You're not looking hard enough at Terran builds if you really think that's true. You can tell a lot about gas timing and expansion timing with an initial scout probe and stalker, as long as you know what to look for. After that point, you can tailor your build to their expected strat, while taking precautions to cover any wonky inefficient strats. What world do you live on? That may be true at GM level, but below that timings mean nothing. You can't expect every Terran to play perfectly, and hit all the timings. And because they don't hit these timings it messes up what we think they are doing. Essentially timings of gas and buildings mean nothing at the lower level because they don't play nearly as perfect as the Pro players. That's so wrong, if a lower level player does a build but does not hit the right timing with it, then you are automatically better off, if you played right, than when he didn't do it. People in lower leagues do weird stuff, completly agree, but it's up to you to figure out why this stuff is not highlevel material. Stop looking at the timer in the corner, and start playing based upon what you see, then you can't get "tricked" by wrongly played builds
No.... If the Terran doesn't hit the timing and then makes you think he is going something else but in reality he just poorly executed the build and is coming 1minute later with more units than you will lose regardless if you played correctly.
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On May 04 2012 02:24 KiLLJoy216 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:18 S_SienZ wrote:On May 04 2012 02:15 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:09 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 01:59 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 01:24 one-one-one wrote:On May 04 2012 00:59 aintthatfunny wrote:On May 04 2012 00:28 one-one-one wrote:On May 03 2012 23:51 kcdc wrote:
Really Blizzard? Zerg is the one with weak early game scouting? You know there's a race with no early flying, cliff-walking or even fast units, right? You troll. Protoss has the stalker, which is a fast unit. In PvT you can pretty much always find out if the terran is taking an expansion by poking the front. If you don't feel safe, put down a robo and chronoboost your observer. No one forces you to play super greedy builds that skips out early observers. No you can't. He can make a bunker on top of his ramp with inbase CC, forcing you to make a fast robo, skip sentries in favor of stalker incase of hellion rine pushes etc. cut probes AND make 4/5 gateways. No, how come people just spit out things that are wrong. If he has inbase CC he will soon lift it out. If you scout a bunker you will have enough map control to be able to poke his natural a bit later. If he is 1 baseing you can usually find out what he is up to with a fast robo. There are some quick hellion drops and stuff, but keep in mind that he might as well proxy stuff. Starcraft is a game of incomplete information. You are not going to see exactly what your opponent is doing every game, you will have to rely on game sense which is gained by playing a lot of games where you don't have the mindset: "if my opponent does x I HAVE to do x and y and z", because it is most likely not true. As a constructive tip I recomend you to go watch some BW vods with english commentary and you will sometimes see players with insanely good game sense managing to figure out and counter proxy- and cheese-builds. There are also some Day[9] dailies I would recommend. The first one is about "pinning your opponent on a build" http://blip.tv/file/5219824The second one is about eliminating assumptions http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-400-p1-special-episode-eliminating-assumptions-5888689 I'll just state the most obvious flaw in your statement. Protoss can't figure out if the Terran went CC until he moves it out, by which time they will be really ahead because we will have to put down our Nexus while theirs is alreacy completed. And we can't go Nexus first because Terran could be doing some cheese or aggressive build. You're not looking hard enough at Terran builds if you really think that's true. You can tell a lot about gas timing and expansion timing with an initial scout probe and stalker, as long as you know what to look for. After that point, you can tailor your build to their expected strat, while taking precautions to cover any wonky inefficient strats. What world do you live on? That may be true at GM level, but below that timings mean nothing. You can't expect every Terran to play perfectly, and hit all the timings. And because they don't hit these timings it messes up what we think they are doing. Essentially timings of gas and buildings mean nothing at the lower level because they don't play nearly as perfect as the Pro players. If it's at the level where timings don't matter, scouting doesn't matter much either. A tightly executed build will simply win outright. No, scouting does matter because you can see what he his making. If you only look at timings you can only ASSUME what he is doing. Scouting gives you basically 100% guarantee what he is doing, timings only suggest it.
Then download a maphack. This game is built around doing things your opponent doesn't know (and can't know) 100%. If you know that your opponent is doing X timing attack, then you can prepare for it 100%. What you're asking for is the ability to defend every attack or aggressive move and get to the endgame for your money army comp to roll over your opponent's army.
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On May 04 2012 02:27 KiLLJoy216 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:19 Big J wrote:On May 04 2012 02:15 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:09 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 01:59 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 01:24 one-one-one wrote:On May 04 2012 00:59 aintthatfunny wrote:On May 04 2012 00:28 one-one-one wrote:On May 03 2012 23:51 kcdc wrote:
Really Blizzard? Zerg is the one with weak early game scouting? You know there's a race with no early flying, cliff-walking or even fast units, right? You troll. Protoss has the stalker, which is a fast unit. In PvT you can pretty much always find out if the terran is taking an expansion by poking the front. If you don't feel safe, put down a robo and chronoboost your observer. No one forces you to play super greedy builds that skips out early observers. No you can't. He can make a bunker on top of his ramp with inbase CC, forcing you to make a fast robo, skip sentries in favor of stalker incase of hellion rine pushes etc. cut probes AND make 4/5 gateways. No, how come people just spit out things that are wrong. If he has inbase CC he will soon lift it out. If you scout a bunker you will have enough map control to be able to poke his natural a bit later. If he is 1 baseing you can usually find out what he is up to with a fast robo. There are some quick hellion drops and stuff, but keep in mind that he might as well proxy stuff. Starcraft is a game of incomplete information. You are not going to see exactly what your opponent is doing every game, you will have to rely on game sense which is gained by playing a lot of games where you don't have the mindset: "if my opponent does x I HAVE to do x and y and z", because it is most likely not true. As a constructive tip I recomend you to go watch some BW vods with english commentary and you will sometimes see players with insanely good game sense managing to figure out and counter proxy- and cheese-builds. There are also some Day[9] dailies I would recommend. The first one is about "pinning your opponent on a build" http://blip.tv/file/5219824The second one is about eliminating assumptions http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-400-p1-special-episode-eliminating-assumptions-5888689 I'll just state the most obvious flaw in your statement. Protoss can't figure out if the Terran went CC until he moves it out, by which time they will be really ahead because we will have to put down our Nexus while theirs is alreacy completed. And we can't go Nexus first because Terran could be doing some cheese or aggressive build. You're not looking hard enough at Terran builds if you really think that's true. You can tell a lot about gas timing and expansion timing with an initial scout probe and stalker, as long as you know what to look for. After that point, you can tailor your build to their expected strat, while taking precautions to cover any wonky inefficient strats. What world do you live on? That may be true at GM level, but below that timings mean nothing. You can't expect every Terran to play perfectly, and hit all the timings. And because they don't hit these timings it messes up what we think they are doing. Essentially timings of gas and buildings mean nothing at the lower level because they don't play nearly as perfect as the Pro players. That's so wrong, if a lower level player does a build but does not hit the right timing with it, then you are automatically better off, if you played right, than when he didn't do it. People in lower leagues do weird stuff, completly agree, but it's up to you to figure out why this stuff is not highlevel material. Stop looking at the timer in the corner, and start playing based upon what you see, then you can't get "tricked" by wrongly played builds No.... If the Terran doesn't hit the timing and then makes you think he is going something else but in reality he just poorly executed the build and is coming 1minute later with more units than you will lose regardless if you played correctly.
Then maybe you should take into account how bad players around you are and don't play so greedy?
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The Observer speed change seemed so insignificant when I saw the numbers. In practice though after some games on that map, I think the difference is enormous. I like it, but I don't think Zerg needs any more buffs in addition to it. It's a pretty major change.
I really don't like the Queen energy change. It basically make an underused tech line almost completely useless. When will we see Phoenix and Void Rays if that change goes makes it to the live game? I wish they'd work more on making underused units and tech more viable instead of something like this. Might as well pretend that Protoss air didn't even exist after it.
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On May 04 2012 02:31 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:27 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:19 Big J wrote:On May 04 2012 02:15 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:09 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 01:59 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 01:24 one-one-one wrote:On May 04 2012 00:59 aintthatfunny wrote:On May 04 2012 00:28 one-one-one wrote:On May 03 2012 23:51 kcdc wrote:
Really Blizzard? Zerg is the one with weak early game scouting? You know there's a race with no early flying, cliff-walking or even fast units, right? You troll. Protoss has the stalker, which is a fast unit. In PvT you can pretty much always find out if the terran is taking an expansion by poking the front. If you don't feel safe, put down a robo and chronoboost your observer. No one forces you to play super greedy builds that skips out early observers. No you can't. He can make a bunker on top of his ramp with inbase CC, forcing you to make a fast robo, skip sentries in favor of stalker incase of hellion rine pushes etc. cut probes AND make 4/5 gateways. No, how come people just spit out things that are wrong. If he has inbase CC he will soon lift it out. If you scout a bunker you will have enough map control to be able to poke his natural a bit later. If he is 1 baseing you can usually find out what he is up to with a fast robo. There are some quick hellion drops and stuff, but keep in mind that he might as well proxy stuff. Starcraft is a game of incomplete information. You are not going to see exactly what your opponent is doing every game, you will have to rely on game sense which is gained by playing a lot of games where you don't have the mindset: "if my opponent does x I HAVE to do x and y and z", because it is most likely not true. As a constructive tip I recomend you to go watch some BW vods with english commentary and you will sometimes see players with insanely good game sense managing to figure out and counter proxy- and cheese-builds. There are also some Day[9] dailies I would recommend. The first one is about "pinning your opponent on a build" http://blip.tv/file/5219824The second one is about eliminating assumptions http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-400-p1-special-episode-eliminating-assumptions-5888689 I'll just state the most obvious flaw in your statement. Protoss can't figure out if the Terran went CC until he moves it out, by which time they will be really ahead because we will have to put down our Nexus while theirs is alreacy completed. And we can't go Nexus first because Terran could be doing some cheese or aggressive build. You're not looking hard enough at Terran builds if you really think that's true. You can tell a lot about gas timing and expansion timing with an initial scout probe and stalker, as long as you know what to look for. After that point, you can tailor your build to their expected strat, while taking precautions to cover any wonky inefficient strats. What world do you live on? That may be true at GM level, but below that timings mean nothing. You can't expect every Terran to play perfectly, and hit all the timings. And because they don't hit these timings it messes up what we think they are doing. Essentially timings of gas and buildings mean nothing at the lower level because they don't play nearly as perfect as the Pro players. That's so wrong, if a lower level player does a build but does not hit the right timing with it, then you are automatically better off, if you played right, than when he didn't do it. People in lower leagues do weird stuff, completly agree, but it's up to you to figure out why this stuff is not highlevel material. Stop looking at the timer in the corner, and start playing based upon what you see, then you can't get "tricked" by wrongly played builds No.... If the Terran doesn't hit the timing and then makes you think he is going something else but in reality he just poorly executed the build and is coming 1minute later with more units than you will lose regardless if you played correctly. Then maybe you should take into account how bad players around you are and don't play so greedy?
It is not that I am being greedy, I am going off these timings of gas and buildings and at diamond/master level it can be off a little bit which throws me off.
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On May 04 2012 02:31 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:24 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:18 S_SienZ wrote:On May 04 2012 02:15 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:09 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 01:59 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 01:24 one-one-one wrote:On May 04 2012 00:59 aintthatfunny wrote:On May 04 2012 00:28 one-one-one wrote:On May 03 2012 23:51 kcdc wrote:
Really Blizzard? Zerg is the one with weak early game scouting? You know there's a race with no early flying, cliff-walking or even fast units, right? You troll. Protoss has the stalker, which is a fast unit. In PvT you can pretty much always find out if the terran is taking an expansion by poking the front. If you don't feel safe, put down a robo and chronoboost your observer. No one forces you to play super greedy builds that skips out early observers. No you can't. He can make a bunker on top of his ramp with inbase CC, forcing you to make a fast robo, skip sentries in favor of stalker incase of hellion rine pushes etc. cut probes AND make 4/5 gateways. No, how come people just spit out things that are wrong. If he has inbase CC he will soon lift it out. If you scout a bunker you will have enough map control to be able to poke his natural a bit later. If he is 1 baseing you can usually find out what he is up to with a fast robo. There are some quick hellion drops and stuff, but keep in mind that he might as well proxy stuff. Starcraft is a game of incomplete information. You are not going to see exactly what your opponent is doing every game, you will have to rely on game sense which is gained by playing a lot of games where you don't have the mindset: "if my opponent does x I HAVE to do x and y and z", because it is most likely not true. As a constructive tip I recomend you to go watch some BW vods with english commentary and you will sometimes see players with insanely good game sense managing to figure out and counter proxy- and cheese-builds. There are also some Day[9] dailies I would recommend. The first one is about "pinning your opponent on a build" http://blip.tv/file/5219824The second one is about eliminating assumptions http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-400-p1-special-episode-eliminating-assumptions-5888689 I'll just state the most obvious flaw in your statement. Protoss can't figure out if the Terran went CC until he moves it out, by which time they will be really ahead because we will have to put down our Nexus while theirs is alreacy completed. And we can't go Nexus first because Terran could be doing some cheese or aggressive build. You're not looking hard enough at Terran builds if you really think that's true. You can tell a lot about gas timing and expansion timing with an initial scout probe and stalker, as long as you know what to look for. After that point, you can tailor your build to their expected strat, while taking precautions to cover any wonky inefficient strats. What world do you live on? That may be true at GM level, but below that timings mean nothing. You can't expect every Terran to play perfectly, and hit all the timings. And because they don't hit these timings it messes up what we think they are doing. Essentially timings of gas and buildings mean nothing at the lower level because they don't play nearly as perfect as the Pro players. If it's at the level where timings don't matter, scouting doesn't matter much either. A tightly executed build will simply win outright. No, scouting does matter because you can see what he his making. If you only look at timings you can only ASSUME what he is doing. Scouting gives you basically 100% guarantee what he is doing, timings only suggest it. Then download a maphack. This game is built around doing things your opponent doesn't know (and can't know) 100%. If you know that your opponent is doing X timing attack, then you can prepare for it 100%. What you're asking for is the ability to defend every attack or aggressive move and get to the endgame for your money army comp to roll over your opponent's army.
You mean like Terran scan ability? lol. I just need something to help me scout early game to see if they are going 1 rax CC or 1-1-1 or whatever the build may be. If I play defensive every game and he happens to do 1 rax CC I will be completely behind.
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I hope that the Queen change will go live in a future patch. Being able to plant a tumor right after the first inject is a good thing.
The change is not as drastic as some imply. It gets you an additional inject before the extra creep queen is out and spreads creep a bit faster since the creep queen begins with planting two tumors instead of one.
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On May 04 2012 02:36 KiLLJoy216 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:31 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 02:24 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:18 S_SienZ wrote:On May 04 2012 02:15 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:09 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 01:59 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 01:24 one-one-one wrote:On May 04 2012 00:59 aintthatfunny wrote:On May 04 2012 00:28 one-one-one wrote:
[quote]
You troll.
Protoss has the stalker, which is a fast unit.
In PvT you can pretty much always find out if the terran is taking an expansion by poking the front.
If you don't feel safe, put down a robo and chronoboost your observer.
No one forces you to play super greedy builds that skips out early observers.
No you can't. He can make a bunker on top of his ramp with inbase CC, forcing you to make a fast robo, skip sentries in favor of stalker incase of hellion rine pushes etc. cut probes AND make 4/5 gateways. No, how come people just spit out things that are wrong. If he has inbase CC he will soon lift it out. If you scout a bunker you will have enough map control to be able to poke his natural a bit later. If he is 1 baseing you can usually find out what he is up to with a fast robo. There are some quick hellion drops and stuff, but keep in mind that he might as well proxy stuff. Starcraft is a game of incomplete information. You are not going to see exactly what your opponent is doing every game, you will have to rely on game sense which is gained by playing a lot of games where you don't have the mindset: "if my opponent does x I HAVE to do x and y and z", because it is most likely not true. As a constructive tip I recomend you to go watch some BW vods with english commentary and you will sometimes see players with insanely good game sense managing to figure out and counter proxy- and cheese-builds. There are also some Day[9] dailies I would recommend. The first one is about "pinning your opponent on a build" http://blip.tv/file/5219824The second one is about eliminating assumptions http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-400-p1-special-episode-eliminating-assumptions-5888689 I'll just state the most obvious flaw in your statement. Protoss can't figure out if the Terran went CC until he moves it out, by which time they will be really ahead because we will have to put down our Nexus while theirs is alreacy completed. And we can't go Nexus first because Terran could be doing some cheese or aggressive build. You're not looking hard enough at Terran builds if you really think that's true. You can tell a lot about gas timing and expansion timing with an initial scout probe and stalker, as long as you know what to look for. After that point, you can tailor your build to their expected strat, while taking precautions to cover any wonky inefficient strats. What world do you live on? That may be true at GM level, but below that timings mean nothing. You can't expect every Terran to play perfectly, and hit all the timings. And because they don't hit these timings it messes up what we think they are doing. Essentially timings of gas and buildings mean nothing at the lower level because they don't play nearly as perfect as the Pro players. If it's at the level where timings don't matter, scouting doesn't matter much either. A tightly executed build will simply win outright. No, scouting does matter because you can see what he his making. If you only look at timings you can only ASSUME what he is doing. Scouting gives you basically 100% guarantee what he is doing, timings only suggest it. Then download a maphack. This game is built around doing things your opponent doesn't know (and can't know) 100%. If you know that your opponent is doing X timing attack, then you can prepare for it 100%. What you're asking for is the ability to defend every attack or aggressive move and get to the endgame for your money army comp to roll over your opponent's army. You mean like Terran scan ability? lol. I just need something to help me scout early game to see if they are going 1 rax CC or 1-1-1 or whatever the build may be. If I play defensive every game and he happens to do 1 rax CC I will be completely behind.
Terran scan is much more hit / miss. And it comes at a cost.
You make overlords anyway. And with the speed buff there's a decent chance it will get out.
There's absolutely no need for a creep buff ALONG with the ovie buff.
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On May 04 2012 02:37 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:36 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:31 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 02:24 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:18 S_SienZ wrote:On May 04 2012 02:15 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:09 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 01:59 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 01:24 one-one-one wrote:On May 04 2012 00:59 aintthatfunny wrote:
[quote]
No you can't. He can make a bunker on top of his ramp with inbase CC, forcing you to make a fast robo, skip sentries in favor of stalker incase of hellion rine pushes etc. cut probes AND make 4/5 gateways. No, how come people just spit out things that are wrong. If he has inbase CC he will soon lift it out. If you scout a bunker you will have enough map control to be able to poke his natural a bit later. If he is 1 baseing you can usually find out what he is up to with a fast robo. There are some quick hellion drops and stuff, but keep in mind that he might as well proxy stuff. Starcraft is a game of incomplete information. You are not going to see exactly what your opponent is doing every game, you will have to rely on game sense which is gained by playing a lot of games where you don't have the mindset: "if my opponent does x I HAVE to do x and y and z", because it is most likely not true. As a constructive tip I recomend you to go watch some BW vods with english commentary and you will sometimes see players with insanely good game sense managing to figure out and counter proxy- and cheese-builds. There are also some Day[9] dailies I would recommend. The first one is about "pinning your opponent on a build" http://blip.tv/file/5219824The second one is about eliminating assumptions http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-400-p1-special-episode-eliminating-assumptions-5888689 I'll just state the most obvious flaw in your statement. Protoss can't figure out if the Terran went CC until he moves it out, by which time they will be really ahead because we will have to put down our Nexus while theirs is alreacy completed. And we can't go Nexus first because Terran could be doing some cheese or aggressive build. You're not looking hard enough at Terran builds if you really think that's true. You can tell a lot about gas timing and expansion timing with an initial scout probe and stalker, as long as you know what to look for. After that point, you can tailor your build to their expected strat, while taking precautions to cover any wonky inefficient strats. What world do you live on? That may be true at GM level, but below that timings mean nothing. You can't expect every Terran to play perfectly, and hit all the timings. And because they don't hit these timings it messes up what we think they are doing. Essentially timings of gas and buildings mean nothing at the lower level because they don't play nearly as perfect as the Pro players. If it's at the level where timings don't matter, scouting doesn't matter much either. A tightly executed build will simply win outright. No, scouting does matter because you can see what he his making. If you only look at timings you can only ASSUME what he is doing. Scouting gives you basically 100% guarantee what he is doing, timings only suggest it. Then download a maphack. This game is built around doing things your opponent doesn't know (and can't know) 100%. If you know that your opponent is doing X timing attack, then you can prepare for it 100%. What you're asking for is the ability to defend every attack or aggressive move and get to the endgame for your money army comp to roll over your opponent's army. You mean like Terran scan ability? lol. I just need something to help me scout early game to see if they are going 1 rax CC or 1-1-1 or whatever the build may be. If I play defensive every game and he happens to do 1 rax CC I will be completely behind. Terran scan is much more hit / miss. And it comes at a cost. You make overlords anyway. And with the speed buff there's a decent chance it will get out. There's absolutely no need for a creep buff ALONG with the ovie buff.
I was talking from a Protoss POV not Zerg... 
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On May 04 2012 02:27 KiLLJoy216 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:19 Big J wrote:On May 04 2012 02:15 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:09 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 01:59 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 01:24 one-one-one wrote:On May 04 2012 00:59 aintthatfunny wrote:On May 04 2012 00:28 one-one-one wrote:On May 03 2012 23:51 kcdc wrote:
Really Blizzard? Zerg is the one with weak early game scouting? You know there's a race with no early flying, cliff-walking or even fast units, right? You troll. Protoss has the stalker, which is a fast unit. In PvT you can pretty much always find out if the terran is taking an expansion by poking the front. If you don't feel safe, put down a robo and chronoboost your observer. No one forces you to play super greedy builds that skips out early observers. No you can't. He can make a bunker on top of his ramp with inbase CC, forcing you to make a fast robo, skip sentries in favor of stalker incase of hellion rine pushes etc. cut probes AND make 4/5 gateways. No, how come people just spit out things that are wrong. If he has inbase CC he will soon lift it out. If you scout a bunker you will have enough map control to be able to poke his natural a bit later. If he is 1 baseing you can usually find out what he is up to with a fast robo. There are some quick hellion drops and stuff, but keep in mind that he might as well proxy stuff. Starcraft is a game of incomplete information. You are not going to see exactly what your opponent is doing every game, you will have to rely on game sense which is gained by playing a lot of games where you don't have the mindset: "if my opponent does x I HAVE to do x and y and z", because it is most likely not true. As a constructive tip I recomend you to go watch some BW vods with english commentary and you will sometimes see players with insanely good game sense managing to figure out and counter proxy- and cheese-builds. There are also some Day[9] dailies I would recommend. The first one is about "pinning your opponent on a build" http://blip.tv/file/5219824The second one is about eliminating assumptions http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-400-p1-special-episode-eliminating-assumptions-5888689 I'll just state the most obvious flaw in your statement. Protoss can't figure out if the Terran went CC until he moves it out, by which time they will be really ahead because we will have to put down our Nexus while theirs is alreacy completed. And we can't go Nexus first because Terran could be doing some cheese or aggressive build. You're not looking hard enough at Terran builds if you really think that's true. You can tell a lot about gas timing and expansion timing with an initial scout probe and stalker, as long as you know what to look for. After that point, you can tailor your build to their expected strat, while taking precautions to cover any wonky inefficient strats. What world do you live on? That may be true at GM level, but below that timings mean nothing. You can't expect every Terran to play perfectly, and hit all the timings. And because they don't hit these timings it messes up what we think they are doing. Essentially timings of gas and buildings mean nothing at the lower level because they don't play nearly as perfect as the Pro players. That's so wrong, if a lower level player does a build but does not hit the right timing with it, then you are automatically better off, if you played right, than when he didn't do it. People in lower leagues do weird stuff, completly agree, but it's up to you to figure out why this stuff is not highlevel material. Stop looking at the timer in the corner, and start playing based upon what you see, then you can't get "tricked" by wrongly played builds No.... If the Terran doesn't hit the timing and then makes you think he is going something else but in reality he just poorly executed the build and is coming 1minute later with more units than you will lose regardless if you played correctly.
What you talk about is, not knowing what he is doing, blindly assuming he is doing a build, when in fact it still could be a variety of builds and you just arbitrarily choose one (usually one that is popular right now) and prepared for it, but out came a different one.
If on the other hand, you really KNOW which push is coming, a delayed one with more units simply sucks harder, because his economy will not provide a better push, but yours provides a better defense against it. You simply can't get greedy meanwhile. F.e. if you know a 3tank push is coming, but then he is not moving out, you absolutly will crush a 5tank push, if you just keep on adding the right units. Ofc, if you don't know it is coming and you get nervous at 11' because he didn't push and you assume a different build and you add drones and then die to a 5tank push, then you simply didn't scout properly, else you would have known that he really does not play a different build and you really have to keep on adding units.
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On May 04 2012 02:37 [F_]aths wrote:
I hope that the Queen change will go live in a future patch. Being able to plant a tumor right after the first inject is a good thing.
The change is not as drastic as some imply. It gets you an additional inject before the extra creep queen is out and spreads creep a bit faster since the creep queen begins with planting two tumors instead of one.
I think Transfusion is the bigger issue honestly.
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On May 04 2012 02:36 KiLLJoy216 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:31 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 02:24 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:18 S_SienZ wrote:On May 04 2012 02:15 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:09 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 01:59 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 01:24 one-one-one wrote:On May 04 2012 00:59 aintthatfunny wrote:On May 04 2012 00:28 one-one-one wrote:
[quote]
You troll.
Protoss has the stalker, which is a fast unit.
In PvT you can pretty much always find out if the terran is taking an expansion by poking the front.
If you don't feel safe, put down a robo and chronoboost your observer.
No one forces you to play super greedy builds that skips out early observers.
No you can't. He can make a bunker on top of his ramp with inbase CC, forcing you to make a fast robo, skip sentries in favor of stalker incase of hellion rine pushes etc. cut probes AND make 4/5 gateways. No, how come people just spit out things that are wrong. If he has inbase CC he will soon lift it out. If you scout a bunker you will have enough map control to be able to poke his natural a bit later. If he is 1 baseing you can usually find out what he is up to with a fast robo. There are some quick hellion drops and stuff, but keep in mind that he might as well proxy stuff. Starcraft is a game of incomplete information. You are not going to see exactly what your opponent is doing every game, you will have to rely on game sense which is gained by playing a lot of games where you don't have the mindset: "if my opponent does x I HAVE to do x and y and z", because it is most likely not true. As a constructive tip I recomend you to go watch some BW vods with english commentary and you will sometimes see players with insanely good game sense managing to figure out and counter proxy- and cheese-builds. There are also some Day[9] dailies I would recommend. The first one is about "pinning your opponent on a build" http://blip.tv/file/5219824The second one is about eliminating assumptions http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-400-p1-special-episode-eliminating-assumptions-5888689 I'll just state the most obvious flaw in your statement. Protoss can't figure out if the Terran went CC until he moves it out, by which time they will be really ahead because we will have to put down our Nexus while theirs is alreacy completed. And we can't go Nexus first because Terran could be doing some cheese or aggressive build. You're not looking hard enough at Terran builds if you really think that's true. You can tell a lot about gas timing and expansion timing with an initial scout probe and stalker, as long as you know what to look for. After that point, you can tailor your build to their expected strat, while taking precautions to cover any wonky inefficient strats. What world do you live on? That may be true at GM level, but below that timings mean nothing. You can't expect every Terran to play perfectly, and hit all the timings. And because they don't hit these timings it messes up what we think they are doing. Essentially timings of gas and buildings mean nothing at the lower level because they don't play nearly as perfect as the Pro players. If it's at the level where timings don't matter, scouting doesn't matter much either. A tightly executed build will simply win outright. No, scouting does matter because you can see what he his making. If you only look at timings you can only ASSUME what he is doing. Scouting gives you basically 100% guarantee what he is doing, timings only suggest it. Then download a maphack. This game is built around doing things your opponent doesn't know (and can't know) 100%. If you know that your opponent is doing X timing attack, then you can prepare for it 100%. What you're asking for is the ability to defend every attack or aggressive move and get to the endgame for your money army comp to roll over your opponent's army. You mean like Terran scan ability? lol. I just need something to help me scout early game to see if they are going 1 rax CC or 1-1-1 or whatever the build may be. If I play defensive every game and he happens to do 1 rax CC I will be completely behind.
This really isn't a coaching thread, but if they do 1 rax CC, you should know by the timings of gas and 2nd depot, which you can see with your scout probe. If they don't do that but show the signs of it, you should be able to hold off any aggression with a 1 gate expand because of how crappy the aggression will be.
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On May 04 2012 02:41 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:36 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:31 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 02:24 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:18 S_SienZ wrote:On May 04 2012 02:15 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:09 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 01:59 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 01:24 one-one-one wrote:On May 04 2012 00:59 aintthatfunny wrote:
[quote]
No you can't. He can make a bunker on top of his ramp with inbase CC, forcing you to make a fast robo, skip sentries in favor of stalker incase of hellion rine pushes etc. cut probes AND make 4/5 gateways. No, how come people just spit out things that are wrong. If he has inbase CC he will soon lift it out. If you scout a bunker you will have enough map control to be able to poke his natural a bit later. If he is 1 baseing you can usually find out what he is up to with a fast robo. There are some quick hellion drops and stuff, but keep in mind that he might as well proxy stuff. Starcraft is a game of incomplete information. You are not going to see exactly what your opponent is doing every game, you will have to rely on game sense which is gained by playing a lot of games where you don't have the mindset: "if my opponent does x I HAVE to do x and y and z", because it is most likely not true. As a constructive tip I recomend you to go watch some BW vods with english commentary and you will sometimes see players with insanely good game sense managing to figure out and counter proxy- and cheese-builds. There are also some Day[9] dailies I would recommend. The first one is about "pinning your opponent on a build" http://blip.tv/file/5219824The second one is about eliminating assumptions http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-400-p1-special-episode-eliminating-assumptions-5888689 I'll just state the most obvious flaw in your statement. Protoss can't figure out if the Terran went CC until he moves it out, by which time they will be really ahead because we will have to put down our Nexus while theirs is alreacy completed. And we can't go Nexus first because Terran could be doing some cheese or aggressive build. You're not looking hard enough at Terran builds if you really think that's true. You can tell a lot about gas timing and expansion timing with an initial scout probe and stalker, as long as you know what to look for. After that point, you can tailor your build to their expected strat, while taking precautions to cover any wonky inefficient strats. What world do you live on? That may be true at GM level, but below that timings mean nothing. You can't expect every Terran to play perfectly, and hit all the timings. And because they don't hit these timings it messes up what we think they are doing. Essentially timings of gas and buildings mean nothing at the lower level because they don't play nearly as perfect as the Pro players. If it's at the level where timings don't matter, scouting doesn't matter much either. A tightly executed build will simply win outright. No, scouting does matter because you can see what he his making. If you only look at timings you can only ASSUME what he is doing. Scouting gives you basically 100% guarantee what he is doing, timings only suggest it. Then download a maphack. This game is built around doing things your opponent doesn't know (and can't know) 100%. If you know that your opponent is doing X timing attack, then you can prepare for it 100%. What you're asking for is the ability to defend every attack or aggressive move and get to the endgame for your money army comp to roll over your opponent's army. You mean like Terran scan ability? lol. I just need something to help me scout early game to see if they are going 1 rax CC or 1-1-1 or whatever the build may be. If I play defensive every game and he happens to do 1 rax CC I will be completely behind. This really isn't a coaching thread, but if they do 1 rax CC, you should know by the timings of gas and 2nd depot, which you can see with your scout probe. If they don't do that but show the signs of it, you should be able to hold off any aggression with a 1 gate expand because of how crappy the aggression will be.
Now you are just talking out your ass. What if they wall in? How am I supposed to see gas timings when I can't even get a probe in.
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On May 04 2012 02:42 KiLLJoy216 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:41 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 02:36 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:31 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 02:24 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:18 S_SienZ wrote:On May 04 2012 02:15 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:09 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 01:59 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 01:24 one-one-one wrote:[quote] No, how come people just spit out things that are wrong. If he has inbase CC he will soon lift it out. If you scout a bunker you will have enough map control to be able to poke his natural a bit later. If he is 1 baseing you can usually find out what he is up to with a fast robo. There are some quick hellion drops and stuff, but keep in mind that he might as well proxy stuff. Starcraft is a game of incomplete information. You are not going to see exactly what your opponent is doing every game, you will have to rely on game sense which is gained by playing a lot of games where you don't have the mindset: "if my opponent does x I HAVE to do x and y and z", because it is most likely not true. As a constructive tip I recomend you to go watch some BW vods with english commentary and you will sometimes see players with insanely good game sense managing to figure out and counter proxy- and cheese-builds. There are also some Day[9] dailies I would recommend. The first one is about "pinning your opponent on a build" http://blip.tv/file/5219824The second one is about eliminating assumptions http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-400-p1-special-episode-eliminating-assumptions-5888689 I'll just state the most obvious flaw in your statement. Protoss can't figure out if the Terran went CC until he moves it out, by which time they will be really ahead because we will have to put down our Nexus while theirs is alreacy completed. And we can't go Nexus first because Terran could be doing some cheese or aggressive build. You're not looking hard enough at Terran builds if you really think that's true. You can tell a lot about gas timing and expansion timing with an initial scout probe and stalker, as long as you know what to look for. After that point, you can tailor your build to their expected strat, while taking precautions to cover any wonky inefficient strats. What world do you live on? That may be true at GM level, but below that timings mean nothing. You can't expect every Terran to play perfectly, and hit all the timings. And because they don't hit these timings it messes up what we think they are doing. Essentially timings of gas and buildings mean nothing at the lower level because they don't play nearly as perfect as the Pro players. If it's at the level where timings don't matter, scouting doesn't matter much either. A tightly executed build will simply win outright. No, scouting does matter because you can see what he his making. If you only look at timings you can only ASSUME what he is doing. Scouting gives you basically 100% guarantee what he is doing, timings only suggest it. Then download a maphack. This game is built around doing things your opponent doesn't know (and can't know) 100%. If you know that your opponent is doing X timing attack, then you can prepare for it 100%. What you're asking for is the ability to defend every attack or aggressive move and get to the endgame for your money army comp to roll over your opponent's army. You mean like Terran scan ability? lol. I just need something to help me scout early game to see if they are going 1 rax CC or 1-1-1 or whatever the build may be. If I play defensive every game and he happens to do 1 rax CC I will be completely behind. This really isn't a coaching thread, but if they do 1 rax CC, you should know by the timings of gas and 2nd depot, which you can see with your scout probe. If they don't do that but show the signs of it, you should be able to hold off any aggression with a 1 gate expand because of how crappy the aggression will be. Now you are just talking out your ass. What if they wall in? How am I supposed to see gas timings when I can't even get a probe in.
He just said that. You either get a probe in and see the gas or no gas, or you won't get a probe in due to an early second depot, that is only possible if he doesn't go for either gas or Orbital.
And really, don't complain about early scouting, there is always the option to just send the worker earlier and you will always see what you need.
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On May 04 2012 02:40 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:27 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:19 Big J wrote:On May 04 2012 02:15 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 02:09 aksfjh wrote:On May 04 2012 01:59 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On May 04 2012 01:24 one-one-one wrote:On May 04 2012 00:59 aintthatfunny wrote:On May 04 2012 00:28 one-one-one wrote:On May 03 2012 23:51 kcdc wrote:
Really Blizzard? Zerg is the one with weak early game scouting? You know there's a race with no early flying, cliff-walking or even fast units, right? You troll. Protoss has the stalker, which is a fast unit. In PvT you can pretty much always find out if the terran is taking an expansion by poking the front. If you don't feel safe, put down a robo and chronoboost your observer. No one forces you to play super greedy builds that skips out early observers. No you can't. He can make a bunker on top of his ramp with inbase CC, forcing you to make a fast robo, skip sentries in favor of stalker incase of hellion rine pushes etc. cut probes AND make 4/5 gateways. No, how come people just spit out things that are wrong. If he has inbase CC he will soon lift it out. If you scout a bunker you will have enough map control to be able to poke his natural a bit later. If he is 1 baseing you can usually find out what he is up to with a fast robo. There are some quick hellion drops and stuff, but keep in mind that he might as well proxy stuff. Starcraft is a game of incomplete information. You are not going to see exactly what your opponent is doing every game, you will have to rely on game sense which is gained by playing a lot of games where you don't have the mindset: "if my opponent does x I HAVE to do x and y and z", because it is most likely not true. As a constructive tip I recomend you to go watch some BW vods with english commentary and you will sometimes see players with insanely good game sense managing to figure out and counter proxy- and cheese-builds. There are also some Day[9] dailies I would recommend. The first one is about "pinning your opponent on a build" http://blip.tv/file/5219824The second one is about eliminating assumptions http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-400-p1-special-episode-eliminating-assumptions-5888689 I'll just state the most obvious flaw in your statement. Protoss can't figure out if the Terran went CC until he moves it out, by which time they will be really ahead because we will have to put down our Nexus while theirs is alreacy completed. And we can't go Nexus first because Terran could be doing some cheese or aggressive build. You're not looking hard enough at Terran builds if you really think that's true. You can tell a lot about gas timing and expansion timing with an initial scout probe and stalker, as long as you know what to look for. After that point, you can tailor your build to their expected strat, while taking precautions to cover any wonky inefficient strats. What world do you live on? That may be true at GM level, but below that timings mean nothing. You can't expect every Terran to play perfectly, and hit all the timings. And because they don't hit these timings it messes up what we think they are doing. Essentially timings of gas and buildings mean nothing at the lower level because they don't play nearly as perfect as the Pro players. That's so wrong, if a lower level player does a build but does not hit the right timing with it, then you are automatically better off, if you played right, than when he didn't do it. People in lower leagues do weird stuff, completly agree, but it's up to you to figure out why this stuff is not highlevel material. Stop looking at the timer in the corner, and start playing based upon what you see, then you can't get "tricked" by wrongly played builds No.... If the Terran doesn't hit the timing and then makes you think he is going something else but in reality he just poorly executed the build and is coming 1minute later with more units than you will lose regardless if you played correctly. What you talk about is, not knowing what he is doing, blindly assuming he is doing a build, when in fact it still could be a variety of builds and you just arbitrarily choose one (usually one that is popular right now) and prepared for it, but out came a different one. If on the other hand, you really KNOW which push is coming, a delayed one with more units simply sucks harder, because his economy will not provide a better push, but yours provides a better defense against it. You simply can't get greedy meanwhile. F.e. if you know a 3tank push is coming, but then he is not moving out, you absolutly will crush a 5tank push, if you just keep on adding the right units. Ofc, if you don't know it is coming and you get nervous at 11' because he didn't push and you assume a different build and you add drones and then die to a 5tank push, then you simply didn't scout properly, else you would have known that he really does not play a different build and you really have to keep on adding units.
I completely agree with you. I was talking more about before 6-7 minute mark. I have no idea what they are doing before that observer gets in. They can push out with some unit and stay at ramp and deny any pokes.
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EPT
