EPTOverlord speed is nice.
Observer build time I am not so sure. I never felt it was needed but oh well can't really complain
Call to Action: Balance Testing (live custom map) - Page 4
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
Overlord speed is nice. Observer build time I am not so sure. I never felt it was needed but oh well can't really complain | ||
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-MoOsE-
United States236 Posts
On May 03 2012 09:12 BearStorm wrote: I feel that if queens start with a transfuse, standard VR harass to zerg will be significantly changed if zerg maintains the same amount of creep spread. But that's just my guess. I feel like in general now these changes will destroy the ffe. - you can no longer hide tech from the faster overlord scout - faster overseers to scout/ stop dts - creep will be spread to 3rd and beyond, so forward pylons will be hard to put down and engagements will be really easy for z on the creep. This will shut down all but the most all in aggression from the protoss on the zerg meaning that the zerg now knows if the protoss ffe he will try to take a fast third due to the 2 base all in's being scouted so easily. After they realize this they know they can grab a quicker 4th and drone to 80 after making a few safety roaches. this is what I feel like will happen, but maybe im looking to hard into this. | ||
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-KarakStarcraft-
United States258 Posts
It's a bonus 25 energy at the start of the queen's life. This isn't going to change all that much. Creep spread was still worked in before... just now you aren't forced to decide between hurting your early economy with a quick creep tumor or never spreading creep vs 6-8+ reactor hellions which keep you stuck in your base forever. They can still scan and kill the creep, and I doubt an extra 25 energy on the same 4 queens people use for the entire game is really going to create some sort of mid-game massive creep advantage. It's just an initial 25 energy. It's a brilliant change. I'd guess that 90% of the people in here will see 0 impact on there games as a result of this. It will really only affect early game ZvT. Protoss already have great ways to clear creep, and their obs just got a build time buff. | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
Also to the people saying "When was the last time Toss won GSL" even though you are now 5 of the ro8...by your logic you're arguing Zerg was fine last season despite having only one quarterfinalist who won the whole thing. | ||
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Ace1123
Philippines1187 Posts
On May 03 2012 09:15 TheRabidDeer wrote: Erm, 50 energy is 1 transfuse OR two injects. You also cant inject the same thing twice which nullifies its ability to inject twice. Or 2 Creep tumors, Oh I imagine the pain if this happens  | ||
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-KarakStarcraft-
United States258 Posts
On May 03 2012 09:18 -MoOsE- wrote: I feel like in general now these changes will destroy the ffe. - you can no longer hide tech from the faster overlord scout - faster overseers to scout/ stop dts - creep will be spread to 3rd and beyond, so forward pylons will be hard to put down and engagements will be really easy for z on the creep. This will shut down all but the most all in aggression from the protoss on the zerg meaning that the zerg now knows if the protoss ffe he will try to take a fast third due to the 2 base all in's being scouted so easily. After they realize this they know they can grab a quicker 4th and drone to 80 after making a few safety roaches. this is what I feel like will happen, but maybe im looking to hard into this. lol. Any good zerg as it is now with the current OL speed can detect exactly what is coming out of an FFE. It's pretty hard to stop OL scouting anyways. This was targeted towards ZvT. I've never felt like I had a problem scouting Toss FFE's... ever. (NA Masters Zerg). I've also not seen this in pro games. Gas timings tell the whole story if you can't make it into the base anyways. And it will have 0 impact on DTs. That's just absurd. This is all late game stuff where you need to have an overseer over each base to watch for them, just like before (or a spore). | ||
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Enzymatic
Canada1301 Posts
On May 03 2012 09:18 -MoOsE- wrote: I feel like in general now these changes will destroy the ffe. - you can no longer hide tech from the faster overlord scout - faster overseers to scout/ stop dts - creep will be spread to 3rd and beyond, so forward pylons will be hard to put down and engagements will be really easy for z on the creep. This will shut down all but the most all in aggression from the protoss on the zerg meaning that the zerg now knows if the protoss ffe he will try to take a fast third due to the 2 base all in's being scouted so easily. After they realize this they know they can grab a quicker 4th and drone to 80 after making a few safety roaches. this is what I feel like will happen, but maybe im looking to hard into this. Like I said on the previous page.. I can see the Overlord change in combination with the extra queen energy putting a massive dent in protoss +1 harass builds after FFE, along with 2-base all-ins. | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On May 03 2012 09:18 Ace1123 wrote: Or 2 Creep tumors, Oh I imagine the pain if this happens Not 2 creep tumors! The humanity! You guys act like this would be absolutely crazy for creep when zergs already make an extra queen that makes a creep tumor every 40 seconds. | ||
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Go1den
England116 Posts
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-KarakStarcraft-
United States258 Posts
On May 03 2012 09:20 TheRabidDeer wrote: Not 2 creep tumors! The humanity! You guys act like this would be absolutely crazy for creep when zergs already make an extra queen that makes a creep tumor every 40 seconds. Yea... exactly. | ||
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-KarakStarcraft-
United States258 Posts
On May 03 2012 09:21 Go1den wrote: Please, anything but the queen change. PvZ was just on its way to balance again and you're gonna tip the scales back to Zerg? rofl because the match-up is so finely tuned right now that a bonus 25 starting energy on the queen is suddenly going to change everything. Come. On. | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
On May 03 2012 09:20 TheRabidDeer wrote: Not 2 creep tumors! The humanity! You guys act like this would be absolutely crazy for creep when zergs already make an extra queen that makes a creep tumor every 40 seconds. The fact that Zergs already make 4 queens anyway makes the change even worse...coz it multiplies. Not to mention it's also a buff to earlier macrohatches if you choose to not blow all that energy on creep. | ||
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TheSwamp
United States1497 Posts
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Coramoor
Canada455 Posts
i have no idea on the observer change, seems pointless, although it times perfectly with a single chrono if i'm not mistake | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
No, it's not a small change. It's a massive change. | ||
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UmiNotsuki
United States633 Posts
On May 03 2012 09:17 Littlemuff wrote: At first i was sceptical about the queen energy change but i dont think it will be too bad. Look at how much creep gets destroyed by terren early pressure when the zerg has 4 queens. All this means is that the initial burst of creep will benifit the zerg but after that it all goes back to normal. Against protoss it might be benificial, but the point of it is that it helps against toss 8gate all ins when they dont have an obs. If they do, the creep benifit is negated (i understand the proxy pylon will have to be further away but atleast that will enourage more warp prism play). Though defending against early stargate might be end up being too easy as queens can move faster to the bases. This could possibly mean no one goes for it anymore. Creep is a big fucking deal, as your post implies, yeah. Good creep spread hinders air harass and Protoss reenforcements, improves tactical decision making, costs Terran money to scan it, and pushes army engagements strongly in the favor of the Zerg. This change is fucking MASSIVE and if it goes through Zerg is gonna be VERY hard to touch in the early and early-mid game. | ||
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TheSwamp
United States1497 Posts
On May 03 2012 09:22 S_SienZ wrote: The fact that Zergs already make 4 queens anyway makes the change even worse...coz it multiplies. Not to mention it's also a buff to earlier macrohatches if you choose to not blow all that energy on creep. And transfuse is going to come up way earlier. | ||
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corpuscle
United States1967 Posts
On May 03 2012 09:17 windsupernova wrote: I.. like the changes. Starting Queen energy will encourage more early creep spread and in case of building defensive queens you can get a transfuse faster nice. I don't know why people are complaining about this one. Because it's really hard to push onto creep, and if zergs are gonna have it out 45 seconds earlier or whatever it is, it's going to get ridiculous. It's a humongous nerf to reactor hellion and stargate openings, among others. It's also not really clear why Blizzard thinks Zerg is having these problems. They're having trouble in GSL, yeah, but that's because the players played bad, not because Zerg is too weak. edit: I did a 4-queen opening with delayed gas and had creep halfway across Tal'Darim in ten minutes. This is fucking absurd, I don't see how they could think this change was a good idea at all. | ||
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
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S2Lunar
1051 Posts
On May 03 2012 09:15 TheRabidDeer wrote: Erm, 50 energy is 1 transfuse OR two injects. You also cant inject the same thing twice which nullifies its ability to inject twice. I know.. i meant a queen will pop out with both a transfuse and/or 2 injects.. I know the queen change will never be passed.. but the fact that they even consider adding 50 energy queens makes me worry... | ||
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