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Creager
Germany1894 Posts
On April 29 2012 18:12 sieksdekciw wrote: Hey bro. Here is some statistical evidence. Toss 8% more than all other races in gm. No words? Eh? http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all this! why aren't brotosses ever responding to non-neglectable statistic evidence?! sure SC2 ranks is Terran-biased as shit... | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On April 29 2012 18:29 Creager wrote: this! why aren't brotosses ever responding to non-neglectable statistic evidence?! sure SC2 ranks is Terran-biased as shit... (I'm not a Protoss) Because it's evidence for there being more Protoss players at GM, and nothing else. I mean, you can look at the Korean league stats and then see that Terran switched position with Protoss and Protoss with Zerg. Does that mean that in Korea Zerg is the hardest race to play? While when looking upon Western stats it would mean that Terran is the hardest race to play... I don't really see the connection between country and the race getting harder, so I don't really see how you can just take those stats and say: least played race equals hardest race. For what we know, people in the west could just hate Terran design and in Korea they could just hate Zerg design, and therefore people don't play those, and Protoss being the overall most played race could just mean that it is the overall most fun/attractive race to play. | ||
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PureBalls
Austria383 Posts
On April 29 2012 18:29 Creager wrote: this! why aren't brotosses ever responding to non-neglectable statistic evidence?! sure SC2 ranks is Terran-biased as shit... Because it is irrelevant? Frankly, even when terrans were insanely OP, I never cared for the amount of them on the ladder. All I wanted was a fair game on the top level, so that I dont have to watch TvT finals in every single tournament. And as long as the game is fair on the top level, there are things that I could replicate/steal from the pros, and use them to win on the ladder. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On April 29 2012 17:29 Blattdorf wrote: Make it cost 100 minerals only or something, so it's a choice between early scouting and having a Queen out to larva inject. lol. I'd trade the 100/100 speed overlord in tier 1 instead of lair any day. You just don't realize how important it is for us to scout and then to react accordingly at this early stage... hell I'd even be happy to have speed ovi without lair for the cost of 150 gas... the overlord are just way too slow that most of the time when you sacrifice them, they see absolutely nothing!... That's why we don't see a lot of pros doing it anymore lately.... they would rather scout the gas or try to be as close in the edges as possible without killing them. | ||
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sieksdekciw
240 Posts
On April 29 2012 18:35 Big J wrote: Because it's evidence for there being more Protoss players at GM, and nothing else. False. There are more toss players in ANY league but bronze. But why should we care. | ||
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sieksdekciw
240 Posts
On April 29 2012 18:36 PureBalls wrote: And as long as the game is fair on the top level, there are things that I could replicate/steal from the pros, and use them to win on the ladder. Yeah, so true. Let's see of things to replicate for each race: Terran - MKP's sick micro. Toss - Make high templars and use them to storm. Sounds legit. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On April 29 2012 18:58 sieksdekciw wrote: False. There are more toss players in ANY league but bronze. But why should we care. 1) your post only talked about GM, so don't give me shit for not responding to the situation in other leagues 2) learn quoting, cutting your own comment that says "8% more in GM" and the other parts of my arguement why "percentage does not equal difficulty" does not put you in good light. 3) Korea GM (Terran), Korea Master (Terran), SEA GM (Terran), SEA Master (Terran), SEA Diamond (Zerg), SEA Platinum (Zerg), America GM (Zerg), America Master (Zerg)... the list of leagues in which Protoss is not #1 goes on and on and on | ||
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
On April 29 2012 18:08 sieksdekciw wrote: It's funny, I play terran on masters league. I had never played zerg before. I played 3 games on my account with zerg and they were all wins. I wonder why that is? Is it that I am a natural born zerg? Or is it cause once you get some decent mechanics, zerg and toss are far more easy to control. Sorry to bust your bubble, zerg and toss are far easier to play, at least for me, on the ladder. So yeah, maybe we don't keep quiet and we address balance issues where we see them? K thx Replays or it didn't happen. Also you should probably check your own sources before mouthing off, because Zerg has by far the lowest representation in Korea at Masters/GM, and Terran the highest, so I don't want to hear your bullshit about 3-10% more Z and P. Tell me, when I pointed out the four different instances in the actual hard data in the original blog post by David Kim that show Zerg to be the weakest race, did I fucking stutter? | ||
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Creager
Germany1894 Posts
On April 29 2012 18:35 Big J wrote: (I'm not a Protoss) Because it's evidence for there being more Protoss players at GM, and nothing else. I mean, you can look at the Korean league stats and then see that Terran switched position with Protoss and Protoss with Zerg. Does that mean that in Korea Zerg is the hardest race to play? While when looking upon Western stats it would mean that Terran is the hardest race to play... I don't really see the connection between country and the race getting harder, so I don't really see how you can just take those stats and say: least played race equals hardest race. For what we know, people in the west could just hate Terran design and in Korea they could just hate Zerg design, and therefore people don't play those, and Protoss being the overall most played race could just mean that it is the overall most fun/attractive race to play. yeah and now if we use our little brains, how come a race is most attractive/fun to play since most people love being successful at what they are doing (instead of being masochistic)? YES, there you go... | ||
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
The real balance question that should be addressed is - why is this the case? | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On April 29 2012 19:22 Creager wrote: yeah and now if we use our little brains, how come a race is most attractive/fun to play since most people love being successful at what they are doing (instead of being masochistic)? YES, there you go... Just to show you to what this would also lead to: You are of Western origin: Protoss/Zerg are the easiest races for you You are of Korean/Taiwan/SEA origin: Terran is the easiest race for you Seems like quite a hard job for blizzard to make races equally difficult when nationality has an influence on this. btw, I'm kind of used to thinking that Humans have big brains and as I consider myself an average human being, I think I have a such as well. Sorry to hear from you, that yours is little. But stay strong, brainsize isn't everything, you could still be an intelligent person. User was warned for this post | ||
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Creager
Germany1894 Posts
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PureBalls
Austria383 Posts
On April 29 2012 19:00 sieksdekciw wrote: Yeah, so true. Let's see of things to replicate for each race: Terran - MKP's sick micro. Toss - Make high templars and use them to storm. Sounds legit. Looks like you are clueless about this game. MKP is much more than about micro. His TvP is probably the best in the world right now. And that is because he utilizes unique strategies and goes for bio mech once in a while. His drop play is also one of the best in the world, as well as his decision making. The micro that he does can be replicated by almost any terran in Code S. His micro is great, but not the reason he wins so much. And a protoss like Paring is also good not because of his micro, but because he knows when to engage and when not. He also has the best positionings of any protoss player in PvT. In addition he is an innovator of protoss play, with his fast 3 base 8gt pressure. Of course, he also has great micro, but I dont expect a terran fanatic to see all the small things that he is doing. | ||
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sieksdekciw
240 Posts
On April 29 2012 19:22 DarkLordOlli wrote: Mang, I love how terrans keep complaining about balance while Zerg is quite obviously having the toughest time out of the three races. The real balance question that should be addressed is - why is this the case? Why do you think zergs have the toughest time? They are 3 to 5% more represented in each league but bronze worldwide than terran. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On April 29 2012 19:33 Creager wrote: lol what's up with the flame now, boy? don't make a "you" from a "we"... The only person that is included in your "we" for sure is you. I don't know who else you know that has a small brain and uses it to draw the same conclusions as you do and as this person is clearly not posting, I'm not gonna discuss with him/her. Also once again, I'm finding myself talking with a person that does not respond on topic and rather hides behind childish "boy" language. One that has <100posts, makes one think if it is really worth 'spending' time 'discussing' with a such... | ||
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Myrddraal
Australia937 Posts
On April 29 2012 19:22 Creager wrote: yeah and now if we use our little brains, how come a race is most attractive/fun to play since most people love being successful at what they are doing (instead of being masochistic)? YES, there you go... I don't know about you but I picked Protoss because I found it the most interesting, then started playing Random in team games and on the SEA ladder because I wanted variety. I am pretty sure most people picked the race that they did before they knew anything about balance, and not many people switch once they know anything about actual balance because they don't want to go through the adjustment period where they will not be as good as they were with their original race. However, if they did switch early on due to perceived imbalances they would have been for imbalances in their league ie. Banshees OP! DT's OP! Zerg Macro is really hard! So that doesn't really tell us anything about which race is actually easiest to play. You might have a point if people only started playing Protoss more recently, when Protoss players have actually been more successful at the top level, but I am fairly sure that Protoss has always been the most played race in every league except Bronze, which can be explained by the fact that you have to play Terran in the campaign so new players who play the campaign will be most familiar with Terran and would feel most comfortable playing Terran on the ladder. | ||
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Creager
Germany1894 Posts
On April 29 2012 19:42 Big J wrote: The only person that is included in your "we" for sure is you. I don't know who else you know that has a small brain and uses it to draw the same conclusions as you do and as this person is clearly not posting, I'm not gonna discuss with him/her. Also once again, I'm finding myself talking with a person that does not respond on topic and rather hides behind childish "boy" language. One that has <100posts, makes one think if it is really worth 'spending' time 'discussing' with a such... how do I not respond on the topic when I'm trying to point out that in lower leagues Terran multitasking and overall skill has to exceed that of similar ranked Protosses?! And reducing the importance of my opinion to the actual number of my posts seems to be rather immature and childish from you in return... Furthermore the mindset of going the easiest way surely does not come from me alone, but rather seems to be human nature... so does your arrogance! | ||
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noidontthinkso
Greece94 Posts
Carni: cloud what do u have to do to better next time? Cloud: change race if even cloud complains there must be something wrong | ||
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Noza
Denmark16 Posts
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
On April 29 2012 19:55 noidontthinkso wrote: cloud aftermatch statement from one minute ago from the EPS finals, quarterfinal match vs bigs Carni: cloud what do u have to do to better next time? Cloud: change race if even cloud complains there must be something wrong I thought this was funny because Cloud has spoken out about balance for a while now lol. | ||
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