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SkimGuy
Canada709 Posts
On April 27 2012 10:09 Makro wrote: i try : Monster has 100x less skill than code s players The fact that Monster made it to a top 4 in a foreign tournament would mean that GSL is (100x100) = 10000x more difficult? | ||
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Corsica
Ukraine1854 Posts
On April 27 2012 11:27 zefreak wrote: Read my post directly above yours and see how it relates to your post. Well, players are what makes tournaments harder/easier, I would argue that format is harder, and because you have to play it in 3 days (rather than weeks for gsl) and because he had to play on not home soil too (jetlag) so i would argue he is saying that its players he is talking about, I would be ok if it was drg, mma, mvp who say that (for the record drg, mvp say that there is no huge difference in skill, though it exists), but to hear that from korean b teamer who judges this from his first tournament seems kinda childish  | ||
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zefreak
United States2731 Posts
On April 27 2012 11:39 Corsica wrote: Well, players are what makes tournaments harder/easier, I would argue that format is harder, and because you have to play it in 3 days (rather than weeks for gsl) and because he had to play on not home soil too (jetlag) so i would argue he is saying that its players he is talking about, I would be ok if it was drg, mma, mvp who say that (for the record drg, mvp say that there is no huge difference in skill, though it exists), but to hear that from korean b teamer who judges this from his first tournament seems kinda childish You missed my point. He never said the the tourney was easy. He said that it is easier than GSL. Which it is. Nowhere does he say anything about his skill level relative to foreigners or anything like that. Also the fact that a 'korean b teamer' gets top 4 in your big european tournament should be further evidence of the fact. | ||
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Jojo131
Brazil1631 Posts
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ShiNwave
United Kingdom41 Posts
People are comparing 3 days of tournaments as "grueling" compared to the GSL format, but remember this: the professionalism that goes into playing in the GSL is beyond what people comprehend on this forum. Try grinding for months vs Only Terran or Protoss. That's the dedication, for like 12 hours a day. There is an inherent difference in knowledge between all the pros and TL'ers - they know it first hand. If the foreign scene wants to "catch up" I think there needs to be a fundamental change in mentality. Just grinding ladder for 15 hours a day and managing to get into GM is not good enough of its own. Similarly to aspiring chess players not just relying on playing thousands of games to become good, or footballers playing game after game. Proper training is required... and I don't see this within the foreigner scene as much as in Korea. With proleague joining SC2, I'm afraid that the bar will only rise in Korea even higher to the extent where the foreign scene is just swamped out, and it truly becomes a two-tier system with Koreans where the GSL will accomodate for a "token" foreigner rather than it being meritoriously awarded... this was similar to BW back in early 2000's when we had a few foreigner protoss players (e.g. 베르트랑) in starleague. From the perspective of an avid fan of global SC2, I hope the foreign scene can keep apace! | ||
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Corsica
Ukraine1854 Posts
On April 27 2012 11:56 zefreak wrote: You missed my point. He never said the the tourney was easy. He said that it is easier than GSL. Which it is. Nowhere does he say anything about his skill level relative to foreigners or anything like that. Also the fact that a 'korean b teamer' gets top 4 in your big european tournament should be further evidence of the fact. GSL difficulty / 100 = very easy... | ||
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Corsica
Ukraine1854 Posts
On April 27 2012 11:56 zefreak wrote: You missed my point. He never said the the tourney was easy. He said that it is easier than GSL. Which it is. Nowhere does he say anything about his skill level relative to foreigners or anything like that. Also the fact that a 'korean b teamer' gets top 4 in your big european tournament should be further evidence of the fact. GSL difficulty / 100 = very easy... Ggandol = Code A with only winning 2 games... trust me even wierder things happened in sc2 then easy ro4...watch his road, ret got ro4 too, but compare their difficultes... | ||
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
Get on the training and stop slacking | ||
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omgimonfire15
United States233 Posts
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zefreak
United States2731 Posts
On April 27 2012 07:00 MorroW wrote: while it might seem abit off or weird that a somewhat unaccomplished player goes out to say something like this, from personal experience i have to agree with him when i played up and down i went 1-3 in my group, then 0-2 in the code a and the time i was in korea before then was gsl world invitational where i lost all my games aswell (i think it was 0-1 in the "clanwar" and 0-2 in the bracket). from watching gsl on a daily basis its really insane how much they are improving all the time and how literally everyone is sick good. our known champions falling to code a or even code b left and right and constant rotation on whos considered among the top just goes to show the amount of very good players they have i got to top16 at dreamhack without preparing for my opponents or even practicing the new dreamhack maps, its not a good result but still. to come top16 to code S is a sick achievement and it is wayyy wayyyyyyyy harder. i prepared vs maruprime and studied his style closely the best i could, and practiced vs only terran about 3 weeks prior to my match. then when i had to play against him i lost 0-2 got my face absolutely stomped. you can take huk and naniwa as example too, who lost miserably the first period aswell, only after a few months were they able to step up their game enough while prior to that were strong enough to be favorites of foreigner events so ye just from my own personal experience and my outlooks as a spectator watching mlg, dreamhack and gsl i think gsl is about 100 times harder lol. trust me there are so many good players you have never even seen in gsl that are trying each month to qualify, players who practice just as much as the ones in code S and are almost as good Went back and found it, very good post. I can't believe some of the posts in the first few pages though, just filled with overreactions and ignorance. I thought SC2 was supposed to have a mature, close knit community. | ||
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Kenpark
Germany2350 Posts
Also the fact that a 'korean b teamer' gets top 4 in your big european tournament should be further evidence of the fact. Again it was a open qualifier with lots of amateur/master level players. And he didnt even qualifiy for the big event. (Only top 2 directly qualify) So he beat Siheo, Protosser,NevaKee, Wonnaplay all unknown amateurs, 3 Protosses who suck in PvZ for ages in Elfi, Mana and Seiplo. Gets outplayed by Nerchio, so that he decided to random all in vs him in zvz and calls foreigner tournaments in general 100x times easier than gsl. Ye of course ... | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
DEAL WITH IT. | ||
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coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
On April 27 2012 12:40 Kenpark wrote: So he beat Siheo, Protosser,NevaKee, Wonnaplay all unknown amateurs, 3 Protosses who suck in PvZ for ages in Elfi, Mana and Seiplo. Gets outplayed by Nerchio, so that he decided to random all in vs him in zvz and calls foreigner tournaments in general 100x times easier than gsl. Ye of course ... This just hammers the point in harder. Monster got eliminated from the Code A preliminary by GhostKingPrime, whose first round match in Code A was against NaDa. His GSL season 1 Up&Down group was NaDa, Lucky, HuK, and Alicia. He then lost to Seed in the first round of Code A. I would confidently say his GSL opponents have been substantially better than his DH opponents. I would not say it's a "Koreans > foreigners" thing. I would say it's this: Advancing to the bracket stage of DreamHack is like Germany's austerity plan for Europe in 2011. Advancing to the bracket stage of Code S is like Germany's austerity plan for Europe in 1939. | ||
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Kenpark
Germany2350 Posts
Naniwa: Genius, Virus, Ryung, Puzzle, MVP, Oz/Parting Squirtle: Nestea, MMA, MKP, Bomber, MC, Creator, Ace, Puma, Sase, Byun, Tod | ||
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zefreak
United States2731 Posts
On April 27 2012 13:19 Kenpark wrote: We could also compare Naniwas possible opponents to get to the gsl finals and compare that with the players Squirtle has to go through to get to ipl4 finals (foreigner tournament). Naniwa: Genius, Virus, Ryung, Puzzle, MVP, Oz/Parting Squirtle: Nestea, MMA, MKP, Bomber, MC, Creator, Ace, Puma, Sase, Byun, Tod Yeah, I guess he should have said that tournaments with foreigners are 100 time harder instead of foreign tournaments, because IPL4 barely qualifies as a foreign tournament. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On April 27 2012 11:56 zefreak wrote: You missed my point. He never said the the tourney was easy. He said that it is easier than GSL. Which it is. Nowhere does he say anything about his skill level relative to foreigners or anything like that. Also the fact that a 'korean b teamer' gets top 4 in your big european tournament should be further evidence of the fact. Yup, pretty much the truth. I've been following GSL since Season 1 and I've rarely heard his name mentioned. People have posted lists of notable players that don't make the cut for code A, it's astounding. Literally every name is a top pro. GSL casters have talked about it, players have talked about it, it's been known. Code A qualifiers is among the fiercest competition in SC2 anywhere. Let alone code A/S themselves. | ||
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boxturtle
United States224 Posts
He went 2-1 against the champ of Dreamhack. A moment of missed concentration would've won him the tournament. There's no way Polt could've stood a chance against him. Polt and Monster are 2 code B level players that got into the top 4. If it weren't for seeds, code S would've been devoid for foreigners for years. Every tournament a player like Polt wins just shows how much easier foreign events are. If you think 3 days of playing is grueling, you're just being ridiculous. Days 1-2 of IEM/MLG are easier than code B level GSL practice sessions for players like these. Playing ~4 hours of competitive games a day isn't grueling for someone who practices 8-12 hours a day in a team house against code B/A/S level players. GSL is hard because the best foreigners go to Korea and fail to qualify. Foreign tournaments are easier because the worst Koreans can go to wherever and win stuff. There hasn't been a single foreigner that's qualified for code A through code B. There have been multiple code B Korean dudes in the top 8 of plenty of tournaments. That's the huge level disparity. | ||
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CajunMan
United States823 Posts
@ boxturtle Could it be because 99% of foreigners can't even attempt GSL? Some players are really good at that style of play. How do we know there wouldn't be a ton of foreigners if we all had access not just a few who can only be there for short periods of time. | ||
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sdecker32
United States38 Posts
He went 2-1 against the champ of Dreamhack. A moment of missed concentration would've won him the tournament. There's no way Polt could've stood a chance against him Polt is a GSL champion, and is a very strong player. You think that polt wouldn't have stood a chance against monster? Monster looked pretty bad in his matched vs. thorzain, thorzain threw the first game away after getting a huge lead through standard play, monster botched a roach bane all in, and then thorzain took him apart in game 3. Monster actually looked pretty damn bad imo, and was lucky to not get 2-0d. In my mind Polt is by far the favorite vs monster. Did you watch the games? | ||
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zefreak
United States2731 Posts
On April 27 2012 13:40 CajunMan wrote: Well to be fair Naniwa in shape against Z would mop monster up easy. Monster is really talking out of place for a player with no good results. All the games I watched of him were him getting really lucky he's a decent player who got lucky congrats bro. And Omg gsl is harder who would have guessed? Really man I think you need to take a seat and win something before talking high and mighty especially about other players who have won multiple championships. When did he talk high and mighty? If anything you foreign fanboys should be thankful that he said Naniwa failed because of his PvZ. He didn't say that Naniwa is not a true code s player, nor did he say that Naniwa is overrated or just not good enough to advance. He said that Naniwa has poor PvZ and implied that any other matchup would have seen Naniwa advancing. That's actually not BM at all. When koreans say anything you lot get your panties in a bunch because you interpret it as being stuck up and BM. | ||
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