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Hey guys,
at DreamHack EIZO Open Stockholm I had the pleasure to have a talk to MYM.MvPs Tak ' Monster' Hyun Seung. I took the opportunity and made and interview with the sympathetic Korean since nobody else ever interviewed Monster in english. In the interview he said some pretty interesting things. For example he emphasized that the GSL is a 100 times harder than foreign tournaments or that DongRaeGu ist the best player of the world.
To read out the full interview with many questions click here
Some impressions:
Let's come to your GSL games. You did not reach any Code S season till now and you did have pretty big problems in Code A as well. Is it so much harder to play GSL than playing DreamHack?
Monster: Well, I think the foreign tournaments are about a 100 times easier than GSL. But I consider GSL to be the best tournament, all the elite players are in GSL.
![[image loading]](http://www.fragster.de/de/esport/coverages/dreamhack/2012/stockholm/artikel/bilder/monster-interview-englisch-0.jpg)
So if the GSL is a 100 times harder, why do you think a Code S player like NaNiwa failed to reach the playoffs here at DreamHack?
Monster: NaNiwa is not really good against Zerg. In Code S there were very few Zergs if any. Here he had to go against two Zerg players. I think that's why he didn't qualify. Probably only because of the opponent's race.
To read out the full interview with many questions click here
Note: The interview was held before Monster played the semis
Interesting as well: Interview with DH-winner ThorZain
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thanks monster for dropping new facts, nice interview
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i think he might be right a little, but in MLG, you have to play for 3 consecutive days while in GSL you have weeks to prepare for your opponent...Better ask Squirtle what he thinks in terms of difficulty since he reached finals of ipl4, also Naniwa didnt play as well as he did in GSL (wonder why)
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Don't know about the skill level part, but GSL definitely requires more mental toughness.
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"For example he emphasized that the GSL is a 100 times harder than GSL or that DongRaeGu ist the best player of the world."
Typo?
Interesting interview.
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I think it terms of strongest players, GSL is definitely the hardest. But I think foreign tournaments have a special type of difficulty to them.
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Very confident for someone who was very lucky to win against Nerchio ...
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Btw, your image is broken, it requires a fragster.de password to access; maybe try rehosting it?
Thanks for the interview
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GSL is much harder, ofc, but in GSL you get a new try every month or so, and winning it gives you lots of prestige. There are foreign tournaments often, but far from all are among the majors, which people very much care about.
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nani killed leenock and nestea @mlg ...
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Monster is obviously exaggerating, but yeah certainly gsl is king.
also, x = 100x ?? gsl difficulty = 0
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On April 27 2012 04:46 zezamer wrote:
"For example he emphasized that the GSL is a 100 times harder than GSL or that DongRaeGu ist the best player of the world."
Typo?
Interesting interview.
Well yes :D
Thank you 
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Bit dumb for Monster to say that about Naniwa, he's only been practicing PvP and PvT for like the last month because that's all he's had to face in the GSL.
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Off-topic, but is anyone else getting a login screen?
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you have many typo... reedit it please 
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On April 27 2012 04:54 Torte de Lini wrote:
Off-topic, but is anyone else getting a login screen?
Yes, I was worried I had gotten a virus for a sec.
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On April 27 2012 04:54 Torte de Lini wrote:
Off-topic, but is anyone else getting a login screen?
Yes
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On April 27 2012 04:49 Ichabod wrote:
Btw, your image is broken, it requires a fragster.de password to access; maybe try rehosting it?
Thanks for the interview
Fixed as well. Next time is should stop beeing tired while posting^^
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On April 27 2012 04:54 Torte de Lini wrote:
Off-topic, but is anyone else getting a login screen?
yea i did o.o i keep getting an "authentication request vorschau.fragster.de"
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Login screen issue should be fixed aswell
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United States15275 Posts
On April 27 2012 04:53 Logros wrote:
Bit dumb for Monster to say that about Naniwa, he's only been practicing PvP and PvT for like the last month because that's all he's had to face in the GSL.
Naniwa was always subpar in PvZ. Beating Nestea, Leenock, and DRG never changed that fact because those were the only zergs he actually defeated.
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That's a very bold and too generalizing statement considering how there are half of the current Code S players participating in leagues like MLG and IPL
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On April 27 2012 04:48 Otolia wrote:
Very confident for someone who was very lucky to win against Nerchio ...
How was he lucky?
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On April 27 2012 04:53 Logros wrote:
Bit dumb for Monster to say that about Naniwa, he's only been practicing PvP and PvT for like the last month because that's all he's had to face in the GSL.
Nani has been traditionally weak against top z compared to his other matchups, lucky consistantly knocked him out of gsl. And on his stream he lost consistently v brood/infestor in the late game. So in this case I agree with monster
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I've never even heard about this guy until now.
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definitely true if you consider that you have to get into code A and then code S
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I like how he doesn't even mention the eventual winner. Especially considering the beating Thorzain gave both him and Polt.
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this guy is such a dick lol. Before he played Thorzain he was like '' Theres an 80% chance that I will win''
Don't think he should be talking down other players or skill levels when he hasn't accomplished anything
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On April 27 2012 04:58 Evangelist wrote:
I like how he doesn't even mention the eventual winner. Especially considering the beating Thorzain gave both him and Polt.
the interview was done before the semifinals occured, so he wouldn't have known.
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too many yes/no questions
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On April 27 2012 04:53 Logros wrote:
Bit dumb for Monster to say that about Naniwa, he's only been practicing PvP and PvT for like the last month because that's all he's had to face in the GSL.
Okay, so Nani only had to practice PvP and PvT, that naturally means he doesn't practice PvZ as much. Doesn't that automatically make him weaker in PvZ because he hasn't been practicing it...which is exactly what Monster said?
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On April 27 2012 05:00 GoSuChicken wrote:
pretty cocky
Most adolescent males are.
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He should have tried IPL's open bracket .
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ok this guy doesnt know what the hell he is talking about, lol monster, in ur dreams
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On April 27 2012 05:02 Fawkes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 04:53 Logros wrote:
Bit dumb for Monster to say that about Naniwa, he's only been practicing PvP and PvT for like the last month because that's all he's had to face in the GSL. Okay, so Nani only had to practice PvP and PvT, that naturally means he doesn't practice PvZ as much. Doesn't that automatically make him weaker in PvZ because he hasn't been practicing it...which is exactly what Monster said?
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1614_NaNiwa
He's also... statistically weaker in PvZ.
So it's not dumb for monster to say Naniwa is weak at PvZ when.... HE'S WEAKEST AT PVZ!
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Lol @ monster for saying this. He has barely played any foreign tournaments. Pretty cocky for saying this. I guess he just wants some attention. Players like this plummet pretty quick. Just look at Idra.
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United States15275 Posts
On April 27 2012 05:00 GoSuChicken wrote:
pretty cocky
Considering what he is used to, Dreamhack probably seems like a cakewalk. And remember Sound? 2nd at Homestory Cup, never made a dent in the Korean scene.
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I agree with the sentiments of many of the posters here; he attended one of the easiest (major) foreign tournaments in the past 6 months (or more).
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This nobody seems pretty confident. Tell him to try MLG or IPL
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I like how he lost the very next match after this interview.
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His first foreign tournment and already so cocky x.x
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I think by 'foreign tournaments' he means DH. In the midst of IPLs and MLGs, DH does seem at the bottom skill wise.
Or he may be ignorant of other tournaments.
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I dunno why so many people think this guy is cocky or rude... Everything in the interview seemed pretty tame to me. GSL definitely is a much more difficult tournament and the reason he said Naniwa didn't make it as far was because he hit PvZ which he hasn't been practicing in the past month and so is understandably weaker in... Of course he also said that he would win but that's also pretty typical of interviews with koreans... On top of that he even complimented Nerchio saying that he knew he was a strong european zerg only behind stephano. I don't think enough personality came out to say embrace or condemn him. ANyhow. Thanks for the interview!
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Hehe, Munster setting himself up to become the 'suicide-zerg' with this attitude in interviews ;D Jokes aside though, I wonder if he was basing the "100 times easier" comment exclusively on the first day of DH.
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But I consider GSL to be the best tournament, all the elite players are in GSL.
Guess that's why he isn't in it.
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On April 27 2012 05:11 ssg wrote:
This nobody seems pretty confident. Tell him to try MLG or IPL
He is not a nobody... and my guess is that he also gets some of the idea from his teammates(specifically DRG) since they've been to foreign tourneys quite a few times. Just my guess.
And i'm not saying I agree with him, just my thoughts on why he's saying it.
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100 what? Apples? That's a lot of apples. Maybe oranges. I like oranges.
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On April 27 2012 05:08 CosmicSpiral wrote:Considering what he is used to, Dreamhack probably seems like a cakewalk. And remember Sound? 2nd at Homestory Cup, never made a dent in the Korean scene.
Well Thorzain just won Dreamhack and none of the five GSL players could stop him.
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If he thinks it is so easy why didn't he win.
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On April 27 2012 05:14 126Q;A1 wrote:
Hehe, Munster setting himself as the 'suicide-zerg' with this attitude in interviews ;D Jokes aside though, I wonder if he was basing the "100 times easier" comment exclusively on the first day of DH.
Pretty sure it helped, but koreans have this habit of coming over to foreign tournaments, taking top 3 and never showing anything slightly related in the GSL, so I can't say I disagree with his view.
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Well to comment as the interviewer himself. He seemed to be a pretty nice guy and was that over the time of the full interview. He pretty much exaggerated concerning the GSL point but I don´t think that he meant that as a insult to foreign tournaments or players. In my opinion these were only his thoughts after he had nearly no chance at GSL and came to the playoffs at DreamHack so easily.
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On April 27 2012 04:53 Logros wrote:
Bit dumb for Monster to say that about Naniwa, he's only been practicing PvP and PvT for like the last month because that's all he's had to face in the GSL.
I don't think it was an insult. I think it was more an observation than anything else and Nani confirmed that he really hadn't practiced vZ in a long time.
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On April 27 2012 05:16 ssg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:08 CosmicSpiral wrote:On April 27 2012 05:00 GoSuChicken wrote:
pretty cocky Considering what he is used to, Dreamhack probably seems like a cakewalk. And remember Sound? 2nd at Homestory Cup, never made a dent in the Korean scene. Well Thorzain just won Dreamhack and none of the five GSL players could stop him.
I would just like to note that there were basically four considering Puma has never been in the GSL.
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I have no idea who Monster is. I doubt he's been to more than a couple prestigious foreign tournaments.
Just another flash in the pan giving us his highly valued opinion.
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80% win chance against ThorZaiN anyone? Pretty EZ if you ask me...
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On April 27 2012 05:19 SilentSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:16 ssg wrote:On April 27 2012 05:08 CosmicSpiral wrote:On April 27 2012 05:00 GoSuChicken wrote:
pretty cocky Considering what he is used to, Dreamhack probably seems like a cakewalk. And remember Sound? 2nd at Homestory Cup, never made a dent in the Korean scene. Well Thorzain just won Dreamhack and none of the five GSL players could stop him. I would just like to note that there were basically four considering Puma has never been in the GSL.
I wasn't considering Puma, although he is good enough too. Well, I guess Hyun and Monster both dropped down. Did not realize that but whatever.
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I was curious about Monster for a while, thank god for this interview because I could never cheer for someone with that sort of attitude...
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On April 27 2012 05:14 126Q;A1 wrote:
Hehe, Munster setting himself as the 'suicide-zerg' with this attitude in interviews ;D Jokes aside though, I wonder if he was basing the "100 times easier" comment exclusively on the first day of DH.
Idk, he got pretty easy groups all the way through, and didn't show particularly impressive skills in the matches I saw of him.
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When Monster wins a major foreign tournament, then I'll take his word for it. =/
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GSL is definitely 100 times harder than that Dreamhack.
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yeah its not like Thorazine roflstomped him and everyone else. and mlgs you just have to run a marathon where gsl has a week to prepare.
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On April 27 2012 05:26 WniO wrote:
yeah its not like Thorazine roflstomped him and everyone else. and mlgs you just have to run a marathon where gsl has a week to prepare.
That makes GSL harder and Thorzain didn't roflstomp Monster or Polt and Thorzain actually lost to Naugrim in the groups.
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100x easier.
Hard time getting past code A
okay there "munster"
Maybe you should get to know the new team that sponsored you to.
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This interview was during the tournament, he thought he would win the tournament, facing polt.
I'm sure he will change his mind about this interview and act less cocky now 
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Comparing foreign tournament to the GSL is like comparing 100 metre sprint to a Marathon.
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wow I am surprised at how many people are upset with his comment on foreign tournaments being easy compared to gsl when it's true lol.
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This interview was before he was beaten by Thorzain in the semis and before Polt was stomped by Thorzain in the finals. Up till then he had beaten what he thought were the best of Europe minus Stephano. After it, I hope he gains a newfound respect for EU players.
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On April 27 2012 04:53 Logros wrote:
Bit dumb for Monster to say that about Naniwa, he's only been practicing PvP and PvT for like the last month because that's all he's had to face in the GSL.
how is that dumb exactly? i swear naniwa stated this before in a interview
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I could respect this statement from a well traveled Korean (ie MC) or even a tenured GSL veteran. But Monster? LOL
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On April 27 2012 05:27 IOvEggY wrote:
100x easier.
Hard time getting past code A
okay there "munster"
Maybe you should get to know the new team that sponsored you to.
I don't understand, what you mean just completely justified his point.
-Does jack shit in GSL
-Hits Ro4 in foreign tournament
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United States15275 Posts
People are quite mad about a Code B player taking top 4 in a Euro-dominated tournament. And he's far from being the best player in Code B too. San, Tear, Life, Losira, Seal, Pet, TOP, finale, Revival, sC...all better than Monster.
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On April 27 2012 05:28 blade55555 wrote:
wow I am surprised at how many people are upset with his comment on foreign tournaments being easy compared to gsl when it's true lol.
Read the rest of the interview then.
The whole tone of this interview stinks.
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On April 27 2012 05:27 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:26 WniO wrote:
yeah its not like Thorazine roflstomped him and everyone else. and mlgs you just have to run a marathon where gsl has a week to prepare. That makes GSL harder and Thorzain didn't roflstomp Monster or Polt and Thorzain actually lost to Naugrim in the groups.
Thorzain won but by a thread on Antiga Shipyard, most entertaining game I saw at the event.
Edit: Remember, he was asked the question by the interviewer, he didn't say it out of anywhere.
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dont think so monster, not when half the gsl comes to foreign tours. OK not half but you get the idea.
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On April 27 2012 05:30 InoyouS2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:28 blade55555 wrote:
wow I am surprised at how many people are upset with his comment on foreign tournaments being easy compared to gsl when it's true lol. Read the rest of the interview then. The whole tone of this interview stinks.
Point me to these specific parts.
The only part I could really think of was when he said he was gonna win against polt in the final but he isn't going to say "OH YEAH IMMA GET RAPED LOL" in an interview. Also I would most definitely say that Genius was overall the best player at the tournament so I don't think you can say that this tone stinks there ESPECIALLY when that player is his teammate...
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If he won the tournament then itd be fine to saysomething like that
If a korean won the tournament itd be fine to say something like that
he got 4th
Polt got murked 3-1
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On April 27 2012 05:29 ssg wrote:
I could respect this statement from a well traveled Korean (ie MC) or even a tenured GSL veteran. But Monster? LOL
The fact that a guy like Monster who isn't even Code A level in Korea can take 3rd at a 'Premier' foreign tournament ahead of a lot of mainstays of the foreign scene without even playing well demonstrates how right he is, at least about this Dreamhack which had the weakest player pool we've ever had at a Premier Event.
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On April 27 2012 05:28 Young Terran wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 04:53 Logros wrote:
Bit dumb for Monster to say that about Naniwa, he's only been practicing PvP and PvT for like the last month because that's all he's had to face in the GSL. how is that dumb exactly? i swear naniwa stated this before in a interview
He did indeed say it here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331510
I: Bobhund from Rakaka.se reporting in, I'm here with Naniwa who unfortunately just went out of the tournament, how does it feel?
N: It doesn't feel too bad, I knew it could happen, I haven't practiced against Zerg for about a month cause I've only been playing against Terrans and Protoss in GSL. It still feels really bad of course, since I know I'm the better player, it just feels like.. I knew these maps would be played here but I went here anyways. I didn't think it would be as big of a problem as it was.
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On April 27 2012 05:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:29 ssg wrote:
I could respect this statement from a well traveled Korean (ie MC) or even a tenured GSL veteran. But Monster? LOL The fact that a guy like Monster who isn't even Code A level in Korea can take 3rd at a 'Premier' foreign tournament ahead of a lot of mainstays of the foreign scene without even playing well demonstrates how right he is, at least about this Dreamhack which had the weakest player pool we've ever had at a Premier Event.
Turn that logic around - Naniwa, a Code S Ro8 player, didn't make it out of the group stages at Dreamhack.
Hence the interviewer challenging him with Naniwa right after.
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On April 27 2012 05:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:29 ssg wrote:
I could respect this statement from a well traveled Korean (ie MC) or even a tenured GSL veteran. But Monster? LOL The fact that a guy like Monster who isn't even Code A level in Korea can take 3rd at a 'Premier' foreign tournament ahead of a lot of mainstays of the foreign scene without even playing well demonstrates how right he is, at least about this Dreamhack which had the weakest player pool we've ever had at a Premier Event.
Maybe about Dreamhack, but that's not what he said. Hence why I said it could make sense from a well traveled Korean, just not him.
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Cant blame him for saying the DH is 100x easier then GSL.... Obviously it was an exaggeration but Monster is, at least from his past results, a 3rd tier Korean who went to his first foreigner event and up until his interview he was owning people. Honestly DH was somewhat disappointing as a foreigner fan because tbh Monster and Hyun were made to look much better then they actually are IMO, I believe Nerchio is incredibly underrated and to see him lose to Monster was somewhat disheartening.
But I definitely think that the interview wasn't even remotely cocky or disrespectful, just telling it how it is!
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On April 27 2012 05:34 Mortalfury wrote:
Cant blame him for saying the DH is 100x easier then GSL.... Obviously it was an exaggeration but Monster is, at least from his past results, a 3rd tier Korean who went to his first foreigner event and up until his interview he was owning people. Honestly DH was somewhat disappointing as a foreigner fan because tbh Monster and Hyun were made to look much better then they actually are IMO, I believe Nerchio is incredibly underrated and to see him lose to Monster was somewhat disheartening.
But I definitely think that the interview wasn't even remotely cocky or disrespectful, just telling it how it is!
He wasn't exactly owning people. In the 3 previous matches leading up this interview he had dropped games against Runa, Seiplo and Nerchio. Not exactly a murderer's row there. He dropped games elsewhere as well.
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On April 27 2012 05:33 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 05:29 ssg wrote:
I could respect this statement from a well traveled Korean (ie MC) or even a tenured GSL veteran. But Monster? LOL The fact that a guy like Monster who isn't even Code A level in Korea can take 3rd at a 'Premier' foreign tournament ahead of a lot of mainstays of the foreign scene without even playing well demonstrates how right he is, at least about this Dreamhack which had the weakest player pool we've ever had at a Premier Event. Turn that logic around - Naniwa, a Code S Ro8 player, didn't make it out of the group stages at Dreamhack. Hence the interviewer challenging him with Naniwa right after.
Did not Monster explain why Naniwa didn't make it out of the group stages?
Because his weakeast matchup atm is PvZ since he hasn't been practicing it at all the last couple of months... so your logic doesn't work in reverse.
If Naniwa had been eliminated by P or T then you would've had a point, however.
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He sounds like a douche. I didn't know he won Dreamhack, pretty surprising to me....oh wait.
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On April 27 2012 05:40 Seldentar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:33 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 05:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 05:29 ssg wrote:
I could respect this statement from a well traveled Korean (ie MC) or even a tenured GSL veteran. But Monster? LOL The fact that a guy like Monster who isn't even Code A level in Korea can take 3rd at a 'Premier' foreign tournament ahead of a lot of mainstays of the foreign scene without even playing well demonstrates how right he is, at least about this Dreamhack which had the weakest player pool we've ever had at a Premier Event. Turn that logic around - Naniwa, a Code S Ro8 player, didn't make it out of the group stages at Dreamhack. Hence the interviewer challenging him with Naniwa right after. Did not Monster explain why Naniwa didn't make it out of the group stages? Because his weakeast matchup atm is PvZ since he hasn't been practicing it at all the last couple of months... so your logic doesn't work in reverse. If Naniwa had been eliminated by P or T then you would've had a point, however.
Let's turn this right back around then. How can anyone be Code S "class" if one third of their potential matchups mean they die to Code B- players.
Code S means very little then. Similarly, Polt is currently in Code S, isn't he?
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On April 27 2012 05:37 ssg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:34 Mortalfury wrote:
Cant blame him for saying the DH is 100x easier then GSL.... Obviously it was an exaggeration but Monster is, at least from his past results, a 3rd tier Korean who went to his first foreigner event and up until his interview he was owning people. Honestly DH was somewhat disappointing as a foreigner fan because tbh Monster and Hyun were made to look much better then they actually are IMO, I believe Nerchio is incredibly underrated and to see him lose to Monster was somewhat disheartening.
But I definitely think that the interview wasn't even remotely cocky or disrespectful, just telling it how it is! He wasn't exactly owning people. In the 3 previous matches leading up this interview he had dropped games against Runa, Seiplo and Nerchio. Not exactly a murderer's row there. He dropped games elsewhere as well.
If you think of his chances against current code S players like MKP, MVP, Parting, etc, to those at DH, he is completely right. Also, people complain when Korean players give humble/boring interviews because they "lack personalities." Maybe he wanted to look more aggressive n be as popular as MC or Idra. What he doesn't realize is that people will always find something to complain about.
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Watch out, we got a badass in here. This is one player I don't find very interesting, his responses annoyed me in a way.
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its true, gsl is still 100 times harder then that dreamhack was. Now mlg......hmmmm. maybe like twice as hard :D
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United Kingdom38149 Posts
On April 27 2012 05:46 radiantshadow92 wrote:
its true, gsl is still 100 times harder then that dreamhack was. Now mlg......hmmmm. maybe like twice as hard :D
only because MLG's get more of the GSL field =p
lol @ people getting upset by this.
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GSL is hard because players have more time to figure out your weaknesses imo...it's not all about muscle memory and hoping your mass gaming pays off like MLG where you just play constantly.
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On April 27 2012 05:42 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:40 Seldentar wrote:On April 27 2012 05:33 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 05:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 05:29 ssg wrote:
I could respect this statement from a well traveled Korean (ie MC) or even a tenured GSL veteran. But Monster? LOL The fact that a guy like Monster who isn't even Code A level in Korea can take 3rd at a 'Premier' foreign tournament ahead of a lot of mainstays of the foreign scene without even playing well demonstrates how right he is, at least about this Dreamhack which had the weakest player pool we've ever had at a Premier Event. Turn that logic around - Naniwa, a Code S Ro8 player, didn't make it out of the group stages at Dreamhack. Hence the interviewer challenging him with Naniwa right after. Did not Monster explain why Naniwa didn't make it out of the group stages? Because his weakeast matchup atm is PvZ since he hasn't been practicing it at all the last couple of months... so your logic doesn't work in reverse. If Naniwa had been eliminated by P or T then you would've had a point, however. Let's turn this right back around then. How can anyone be Code S "class" if one third of their potential matchups mean they die to Code B- players. Code S means very little then. Similarly, Polt is currently in Code S, isn't he?
It's not about being bad at the match up (have we forgotten so fast how many Code S Zergs he has beaten); it's just that he was bad vZ that weekend due to lack of practice.
Polt went 0-2 in Code S ro32.
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On April 27 2012 05:42 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:40 Seldentar wrote:On April 27 2012 05:33 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 05:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 05:29 ssg wrote:
I could respect this statement from a well traveled Korean (ie MC) or even a tenured GSL veteran. But Monster? LOL The fact that a guy like Monster who isn't even Code A level in Korea can take 3rd at a 'Premier' foreign tournament ahead of a lot of mainstays of the foreign scene without even playing well demonstrates how right he is, at least about this Dreamhack which had the weakest player pool we've ever had at a Premier Event. Turn that logic around - Naniwa, a Code S Ro8 player, didn't make it out of the group stages at Dreamhack. Hence the interviewer challenging him with Naniwa right after. Did not Monster explain why Naniwa didn't make it out of the group stages? Because his weakeast matchup atm is PvZ since he hasn't been practicing it at all the last couple of months... so your logic doesn't work in reverse. If Naniwa had been eliminated by P or T then you would've had a point, however. Let's turn this right back around then. How can anyone be Code S "class" if one third of their potential matchups mean they die to Code B- players. Code S means very little then. Similarly, Polt is currently in Code S, isn't he?
He dropped out in RO32, which also happened to be the case the last time he was in Code S(November).
Dropped to Code B last season, but he got a seed for his Assembly victory to Code S.
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has monster even _won_ anything.
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This interview feels like a lost in translation. Dont think his reponses meant to be this way
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On April 27 2012 05:40 Seldentar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:33 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 05:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 05:29 ssg wrote:
I could respect this statement from a well traveled Korean (ie MC) or even a tenured GSL veteran. But Monster? LOL The fact that a guy like Monster who isn't even Code A level in Korea can take 3rd at a 'Premier' foreign tournament ahead of a lot of mainstays of the foreign scene without even playing well demonstrates how right he is, at least about this Dreamhack which had the weakest player pool we've ever had at a Premier Event. Turn that logic around - Naniwa, a Code S Ro8 player, didn't make it out of the group stages at Dreamhack. Hence the interviewer challenging him with Naniwa right after. Did not Monster explain why Naniwa didn't make it out of the group stages? Because his weakeast matchup atm is PvZ since he hasn't been practicing it at all the last couple of months... so your logic doesn't work in reverse. If Naniwa had been eliminated by P or T then you would've had a point, however.
Naniwa's PvZ was enough to defeat Leenock and Nestea. Are they Code B level too?
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Well he cerainly didn't hold back lol. Nice to see someone actually spitting out the blatant truth for once, albeit 100x is somewhat exaggerated.
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I have no idea what people are hating on. I think that Dreamhack was, literally, probably 100 times easier than GSL. You don't think Monster had about 100 times as big a chance at winning Dreamhack compared to winning the next GSL? Sounds about right.
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He sounds really cocky without results to back it up
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United States15275 Posts
On April 27 2012 05:50 fraktoasters wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:42 Evangelist wrote:On April 27 2012 05:40 Seldentar wrote:On April 27 2012 05:33 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 05:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 05:29 ssg wrote:
I could respect this statement from a well traveled Korean (ie MC) or even a tenured GSL veteran. But Monster? LOL The fact that a guy like Monster who isn't even Code A level in Korea can take 3rd at a 'Premier' foreign tournament ahead of a lot of mainstays of the foreign scene without even playing well demonstrates how right he is, at least about this Dreamhack which had the weakest player pool we've ever had at a Premier Event. Turn that logic around - Naniwa, a Code S Ro8 player, didn't make it out of the group stages at Dreamhack. Hence the interviewer challenging him with Naniwa right after. Did not Monster explain why Naniwa didn't make it out of the group stages? Because his weakeast matchup atm is PvZ since he hasn't been practicing it at all the last couple of months... so your logic doesn't work in reverse. If Naniwa had been eliminated by P or T then you would've had a point, however. Let's turn this right back around then. How can anyone be Code S "class" if one third of their potential matchups mean they die to Code B- players. Code S means very little then. Similarly, Polt is currently in Code S, isn't he? It's not about being bad at the match up (have we forgotten so fast how many Code S Zergs he has beaten); it's just that he was bad vZ that weekend due to lack of practice. Polt went 0-2 in Code S ro32.
No, Naniwa's legitimately bad in the matchup compared to his peers like Hero and MC. But Naniwa is very good at preparing for a specific opponent and mindgaming them, which is why he beats Nestea and was able to beat Leenock after losing to him at MLG. However, he beat a DRG suffering from food poisoning and DRG has beaten him over the head with vastly improved ZvP ever since. And let's not forget about the losses to Hyun and Slivko and Nerchio and Zenio and Haypro and Ret, which shouldn't have happened if his PvZ was really that good.
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meh. not a terribly interesting interview. foreign tournaments easier than GSL? go figure.
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Yeah... obviously he's being a bit of a dick without even really knowing it.
GSL is the most elite in the world - just like Korea is the most elite SC country in the world.
But 100 times easier? Like, it sounds like a common Korean colloquial saying taken a bit out of context (I'm Korean), but seriously, it's like he's saying it specifically to rile up any foreigners that might be reading the article, without the knowledge that we DO INDEED read the crap coming out of everyone's mouths.
Guy needs some PR lessons.
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I think the underline message of that statement is "I'm Korean and I'm proud", eh well...
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On April 27 2012 05:56 Zaphid wrote:
He sounds really cocky without results to back it up
To be fair that's sort of the point. He would never get to semis of GSL.
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He's correct. IPL4 is the only foreign tournament that has been anywhere near code s in skill level
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On April 27 2012 05:58 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:56 Zaphid wrote:
He sounds really cocky without results to back it up To be fair that's sort of the point. He would never get to semis of GSL.
You don't know that. Hell, Inca got to the finals of a GSL.
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if foreign events are sooo easy, i wonder, why isn't he making tons of $$ on online tournaments ? saw him in a few, never seen him actually win one. he's like a small dog that barks alot through the fence but when someone actually goes through the gate he just runs to the house with the tail between his legs.
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On April 27 2012 06:01 inermis wrote:
if foreign events are sooo easy, i wonder, why isn't he making tons of $$ on online tournaments ? saw him in a few, never seen him actually win one. he's like a small dog that barks alot through the fence but when someone actually goes through the gate he just runs to the house with the tail between his legs.
Geez, butthurt much?
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He's correct but his sample of tournaments is quite stupid, Dreamhack was organised so that the best players would come out toward the end, compared to MLG or IPL's open bracket it was extremely forgiving. Also saying "foreign tournaments" as a generality is pretty retarded, its quite obvious that an MLG or IPL with 10+ Koreans over a weekend isn't 100x easier than GSL. Guy is unfortunately neither tactful or knowledgable about what hes talking about.
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On April 27 2012 06:01 inermis wrote:
if foreign events are sooo easy, i wonder, why isn't he making tons of $$ on online tournaments ? saw him in a few, never seen him actually win one. he's like a small dog that barks alot through the fence but when someone actually goes through the gate he just runs to the house with the tail between his legs.
Probably because he lives in Korea? Do you actually think before you speak?
If you actually think Dreamhack's line-up was ANYWHERE near Code S quality you're delusional. I could pluck like half of the Code S line-up and have them crush 95% of Dreamhack participants, that's just the truth. He didn't say that Dreamhack was easy, he was saying that GSL is harder... and it is.
On April 27 2012 06:04 bmml wrote:
He's correct but his sample of tournaments is quite stupid, Dreamhack was organised so that the best players would come out toward the end, compared to MLG or IPL's open bracket it was extremely forgiving. Also saying "foreign tournaments" as a generality is pretty retarded, its quite obvious that an MLG or IPL with 10+ Koreans over a weekend isn't 100x easier than GSL. Guy is unfortunately neither tactful or knowledgable about what hes talking about.
It's called hyperbole >_>. 10+ Koreans (some of which are not top tier) vs 32 of the best Koreans, GSL clearly is still harder. Not to mention you can often avoid meeting good players for quite a while if you're lucky, which just doesn't happen in GSL. He shouldn't have worded it so strongly, but he's still basically correct.
On April 27 2012 06:08 eXistenZ wrote:
The point is, if you are not winning hard foreign tournaments or doing good in GSL, that means when you are outside of it, your opinion on GSL vs X Foreign tournament has the same value as any teamliquider's opinion on the issue. (Which is still valuable but relatively valueless comparing to, say... "Squirtle's Opinion"...)
So in the end, your opinion becomes no big deal...
That logic makes no sense. He got 3rd in Dreamhack and came nowhere near 3rd in GSL. He has played against the competition from both sides and is basically 100% correct in what he says.
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The point is, if you are not winning hard foreign tournaments or doing good in GSL, that means when you are outside of the circle (outside by means of succession), your opinion on GSL vs X Foreign tournament has the same value as any teamliquider's opinion on the issue. (Which is still valuable but relatively valueless comparing to, say... "Squirtle's Opinion"...)
So in the end, your opinion becomes no big deal... That's why that kind of statement with nothing to back it up makes you look funny...
Because in the end we all know that, it is the fact that GSL is the hardest.
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On April 27 2012 05:12 TheBanana wrote:
I like how he lost the very next match after this interview.
I like how this has nothing to do with his interview.
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On April 27 2012 05:58 dAPhREAk wrote:
meh. not a terribly interesting interview. foreign tournaments easier than GSL? go figure.
yeah.. shocking.. zzz.
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sympathetic
I think you mean empathic/charming/friendly. its a so called 'false friend', because in german theres a very similar word ('sympathisch') that means something entirely different.
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Canada16217 Posts
Skill wise GSL is 100 times harder than dreamhack you can't argue against that.This is his first foreign event so I don't see how he can judge all foreign tournaments because a lot others are harder I think he was just referring to this tournament though.
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On April 27 2012 06:08 eXistenZ wrote:
The point is, if you are not winning hard foreign tournaments or doing good in GSL, that means when you are outside of it, your opinion on GSL vs X Foreign tournament has the same value as any teamliquider's opinion on the issue. (Which is still valuable but relatively valueless comparing to, say... "Squirtle's Opinion"...)
So in the end, your opinion becomes no big deal... That's why that kind of statement with nothing to back it up makes you look funny...
lol fuckoff, you're worth shit. atleast he's taken part in the stuff he's talking about. you instead are just running your fat mouth.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Nice trollbait by monster and everyone having their knickers in a twist over it
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On April 27 2012 05:58 SwizzY wrote:
Yeah... obviously he's being a bit of a dick without even really knowing it.
GSL is the most elite in the world - just like Korea is the most elite SC country in the world.
But 100 times easier? Like, it sounds like a common Korean colloquial saying taken a bit out of context (I'm Korean), but seriously, it's like he's saying it specifically to rile up any foreigners that might be reading the article, without the knowledge that we DO INDEED read the crap coming out of everyone's mouths.
Guy needs some PR lessons.
It's called a hyperbole. When someone says "that exam was 100 times harder than the previous one," do you honestly think it was actually 100 times harder?
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Well he is right
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On April 27 2012 06:19 mango_destroyer wrote:Well he is right
If he can't win one with it being that much easier he might as well retire.
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naniwa is still stronger than most foreigners is PvZ, and he has also beat many accomplished zergs, most notably on his last mlg run. Monster is very cocky concidering he hasn't accomplsihed much yet.
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On April 27 2012 06:20 Serpico wrote:If he can't win one with it being that much easier he might as well retire.
What kind of logic is that? You don`t have to win one to prove a point. He got to the semis at dreamhack and nowhere near that in GSL.
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On April 27 2012 06:20 Serpico wrote:If he can't win one with it being that much easier he might as well retire.
or, you know, practice more and prepare for the next one. =P
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On April 27 2012 06:16 awu25 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:58 SwizzY wrote:
Yeah... obviously he's being a bit of a dick without even really knowing it.
GSL is the most elite in the world - just like Korea is the most elite SC country in the world.
But 100 times easier? Like, it sounds like a common Korean colloquial saying taken a bit out of context (I'm Korean), but seriously, it's like he's saying it specifically to rile up any foreigners that might be reading the article, without the knowledge that we DO INDEED read the crap coming out of everyone's mouths.
Guy needs some PR lessons. It's called a hyperbole. When someone says "that exam was 100 times harder than the previous one," do you honestly think it was actually 100 times harder?
yes.
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On April 27 2012 06:22 mango_destroyer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:20 Serpico wrote:On April 27 2012 06:19 mango_destroyer wrote:Well he is right If he can't win one with it being that much easier he might as well retire. What kind of logic is that? You don`t have to win one to prove a point. He got to the semis at dreamhack and nowhere near that in GSL.
May I say... he also did it with jet lag and it being his first foreign tournament.
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On April 27 2012 06:22 mango_destroyer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:20 Serpico wrote:On April 27 2012 06:19 mango_destroyer wrote:Well he is right If he can't win one with it being that much easier he might as well retire. What kind of logic is that? You don`t have to win one to prove a point. He got to the semis at dreamhack and nowhere near that in GSL.
You're right, it just makes you look stupid as hell to call something easy when you can't even be the best in it.
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On April 27 2012 06:26 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:22 mango_destroyer wrote:On April 27 2012 06:20 Serpico wrote:On April 27 2012 06:19 mango_destroyer wrote:Well he is right If he can't win one with it being that much easier he might as well retire. What kind of logic is that? You don`t have to win one to prove a point. He got to the semis at dreamhack and nowhere near that in GSL. You're right, it just makes you look stupid as hell to call something easy when you can't even be the best in it.
Easy and easier then x are 2 completely different things.
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On April 27 2012 06:27 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:26 Serpico wrote:On April 27 2012 06:22 mango_destroyer wrote:On April 27 2012 06:20 Serpico wrote:On April 27 2012 06:19 mango_destroyer wrote:Well he is right If he can't win one with it being that much easier he might as well retire. What kind of logic is that? You don`t have to win one to prove a point. He got to the semis at dreamhack and nowhere near that in GSL. You're right, it just makes you look stupid as hell to call something easy when you can't even be the best in it. Easy and easier then x are 2 completely different things.
100 times easier is a lot, I'd imagine he thinks GSL is impossible for him if dreamhack is that much easier and he still lost.
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You can't really compare Dreamhack, which is a one time event with a huge open pool play to GSL, which in itself is divided in several leagues were the playerbase is filtered over the course of many seasons. At an event like Dreamhack only the final stages of the championship bracket can compare to GSL.
That being said, going all the way in a tournament like Dreamhack takes quite a bit as the upper brackets will most likely hold a lot of Code S quality players. Making it "far" might be 100 times easier, but in the end you have to defeat similar competition (which Monster couldn't). Personally, I feel there's need for both these huge, crazy events like DH and MLG and a consistent high end league like GSL.
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If it was MKP, MC or Nestea, I would be more impressed. He should really get a major win under his belt before calling all tournaments outside of Korea easy. Though it may have a ring of truth to it, he just comes off as cocky and dismissive.
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On April 27 2012 06:25 SilentSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:22 mango_destroyer wrote:On April 27 2012 06:20 Serpico wrote:On April 27 2012 06:19 mango_destroyer wrote:Well he is right If he can't win one with it being that much easier he might as well retire. What kind of logic is that? You don`t have to win one to prove a point. He got to the semis at dreamhack and nowhere near that in GSL. May I say... he also did it with jet lag and it being his first foreign tournament.
having jet lag was his own lack of preparation.
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On April 27 2012 06:29 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:25 SilentSC2 wrote:On April 27 2012 06:22 mango_destroyer wrote:On April 27 2012 06:20 Serpico wrote:On April 27 2012 06:19 mango_destroyer wrote:Well he is right If he can't win one with it being that much easier he might as well retire. What kind of logic is that? You don`t have to win one to prove a point. He got to the semis at dreamhack and nowhere near that in GSL. May I say... he also did it with jet lag and it being his first foreign tournament. having jet lag was his own lack of preparation.
and a lot of players play with jetlag.
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On April 27 2012 06:07 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:04 bmml wrote:
He's correct but his sample of tournaments is quite stupid, Dreamhack was organised so that the best players would come out toward the end, compared to MLG or IPL's open bracket it was extremely forgiving. Also saying "foreign tournaments" as a generality is pretty retarded, its quite obvious that an MLG or IPL with 10+ Koreans over a weekend isn't 100x easier than GSL. Guy is unfortunately neither tactful or knowledgable about what hes talking about. It's called hyperbole >_>. 10+ Koreans (some of which are not top tier) vs 32 of the best Koreans, GSL clearly is still harder. Not to mention you can often avoid meeting good players for quite a while if you're lucky, which just doesn't happen in GSL. He shouldn't have worded it so strongly, but he's still basically correct.
Thats what I said.... see right at the start "He's correct".
You also fail to take into account how difficult a large open bracket played over 2 days is compared to where you can prepare.
Also since when can you not avoid meeting good players in GSL? They have a group drawing for a reason.
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Dreamhack was quite an easy tournament in terms of top Korean presence, way easier than the concurrent MLG for example. DH was certainly not at Code A level until way far off in the final bracket. And even then, matched against one of the strongest pawn of the foreigner scene (which he deems ezpz), he was not able to beat him.
So yeah, he's probably spot on about DH's difficulty, BUT it's not his place to say that because he's far from being one of the best Koreans (i.e. far from being one of the best players), AND DH was one of the easiest tournaments we've seen in a while (way easier than MLG, IPL etc...)
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On April 27 2012 06:16 awu25 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:58 SwizzY wrote:
Yeah... obviously he's being a bit of a dick without even really knowing it.
GSL is the most elite in the world - just like Korea is the most elite SC country in the world.
But 100 times easier? Like, it sounds like a common Korean colloquial saying taken a bit out of context (I'm Korean), but seriously, it's like he's saying it specifically to rile up any foreigners that might be reading the article, without the knowledge that we DO INDEED read the crap coming out of everyone's mouths.
Guy needs some PR lessons. It's called a hyperbole. When someone says "that exam was 100 times harder than the previous one," do you honestly think it was actually 100 times harder?
I think that when talking about a topic that can be touchy to folks across seas, such as the legitimacy of the skill in their tournaments, you should have some air of responsibility in the kinds of words you throw around.
Sure, MC could easily say straight up that the reason he goes to so many foreign tournaments is to milk as much publicity and money he can from as many fans as he can dupe, which is true, which is an informal hyperbole, but is entirely inappropriate and will lead to negative reaction.
In my eyes Monster has done this, hence "he needs PR lessons."
if you need anymore clarification on what I'm trying to say, just PM me instead of assuming I don't know what a hyperbole is.
Thanks.
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On April 27 2012 06:35 ZenithM wrote:
Dreamhack was quite an easy tournament in terms of top Korean presence, way easier than the concurrent MLG for example. DH was certainly not at Code A level until way far off in the final bracket. And even then, matched against one of the strongest pawn of the foreigner scene (which he deems ezpz), he was not able to beat him.
So yeah, he's probably spot on about DH's difficulty, BUT it's not his place to say that because he's far from being one of the best Koreans (i.e. far from being one of the best players), AND DH was one of the easiest tournaments we've seen in a while (way easier than MLG, IPL etc...)
True, but we could however look at PuMa's record in Korea and outside of it to judge the difficulty, or how much time NaNiwa has had to spend in Korea before he was actually able to win a Bo3 in GSL let alone reach ro8.
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On April 27 2012 06:28 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:27 Assirra wrote:On April 27 2012 06:26 Serpico wrote:On April 27 2012 06:22 mango_destroyer wrote:On April 27 2012 06:20 Serpico wrote:On April 27 2012 06:19 mango_destroyer wrote:Well he is right If he can't win one with it being that much easier he might as well retire. What kind of logic is that? You don`t have to win one to prove a point. He got to the semis at dreamhack and nowhere near that in GSL. You're right, it just makes you look stupid as hell to call something easy when you can't even be the best in it. Easy and easier then x are 2 completely different things. 100 times easier is a lot, I'd imagine he thinks GSL is impossible for him if dreamhack is that much easier and he still lost.
geez how can so many people fixate so hard on the 100 times :DD i bet it was supersrs and calculated !
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On April 27 2012 06:26 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:22 mango_destroyer wrote:On April 27 2012 06:20 Serpico wrote:On April 27 2012 06:19 mango_destroyer wrote:Well he is right If he can't win one with it being that much easier he might as well retire. What kind of logic is that? You don`t have to win one to prove a point. He got to the semis at dreamhack and nowhere near that in GSL. You're right, it just makes you look stupid as hell to call something easy when you can't even be the best in it.
When people at school score in the mid 90's for a test they say "That was soooo easy". By your logic they should not be aloud to say such a thing unless they have gotten 100%?
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Jesus, Monster sounds like such a douche in that interview xD
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On April 27 2012 06:40 Xarles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:35 ZenithM wrote:
Dreamhack was quite an easy tournament in terms of top Korean presence, way easier than the concurrent MLG for example. DH was certainly not at Code A level until way far off in the final bracket. And even then, matched against one of the strongest pawn of the foreigner scene (which he deems ezpz), he was not able to beat him.
So yeah, he's probably spot on about DH's difficulty, BUT it's not his place to say that because he's far from being one of the best Koreans (i.e. far from being one of the best players), AND DH was one of the easiest tournaments we've seen in a while (way easier than MLG, IPL etc...) True, but we could however look at PuMa's record in Korea and outside of it to judge the difficulty, or how much time NaNiwa has had to spend in Korea before he was actually able to win a Bo3 in GSL let alone reach ro8.
Well, yeah, it's obvious than GSL is way harder, that's why I didn't even talk about it when I compared DH to other tournaments. DH was easy even compared with OTHER foreign tournaments. It's essentially stomping random Swedes for 2 days before finally having to be matched against top foreigners in quarter finals. Obviously any Korean is going to do well... That's why I think that it's a bit conceited of a declaration from Monster.
Again, saying GSL is the hardest shit in the world is Captain Obvious level imo. But the caliber of play at IPL 4 (for example) was comparable I think, while it was certainly not at DH.
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On April 27 2012 06:28 Nifel wrote:
You can't really compare Dreamhack, which is a one time event with a huge open pool play to GSL, which in itself is divided in several leagues were the playerbase is filtered over the course of many seasons. At an event like Dreamhack only the final stages of the championship bracket can compare to GSL.
That being said, going all the way in a tournament like Dreamhack takes quite a bit as the upper brackets will most likely hold a lot of Code S quality players. Making it "far" might be 100 times easier, but in the end you have to defeat similar competition (which Monster couldn't). Personally, I feel there's need for both these huge, crazy events like DH and MLG and a consistent high end league like GSL.
There were three Code S players at Dreamhack.
People should stop pretending like the player pool at Dreamhack is equal to an MLG or IPL, it wasn't even close. They're completely incomparable. The Dreamhack player pool was weaker than even NASL Season 2.
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im from korea, korea we have gsl, gsl 100x times better skill than awful foreigners. All this coming from a guy that has won nothing. What a complete clown this guy is.
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Calm your nerdbeards. Hes basically saying its much easier (which it is). He couldve said twice as easy or 10 times easier and still meant the same thing. Dont get all riled up because he said 100.
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So who do you think is the best player on your team?
Monster: DongRaeGu.
Is he the best player in Korea as well?
Monster: Yes.
Even the best in the world?
Monster: Yes.
monster <3 DRG
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-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_-
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On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_-
I would say IPL4 had way more good koreans then MLG has ever had. IPL4 was the closest thing to a GSL code S tournament imo in terms of difficulty.
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On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_-
And it's great. People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?
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On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_- And it's great.
No, it isn't.
People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?
No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing.
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Code-B player ties for 3rd place at Dreamhack. Code-B = tied for 73rd place at best.
Dreamhack at least 73/3 ~= 24X harder than GSL.
Q.E.D.
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He doesn't exactly have a winning personality, but he's sort of right.
Its probably easy to get far into this tournament. However, its a whole different story winning it. You have the fatigues from fighting so many bo3s, the nerves from playing in front of thousands of people. Its a different sort of challenge than playing at the GOM studio. Consider how he completely choked during the match with Thorzain, I think he probably gets it now.
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On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_- And it's great. No, it isn't. Show nested quote +
People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?
No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing.
Well, at some point in the event it's always going to be Koreans vs Koreans anyway after they're done wiping the floor with foreigners, it's even sadder than to start with Koreans from the get-go and let the few foreigners that really deserve it have a shot against them :D
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Monster is confident and he should be, Monster fighting!
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On April 27 2012 06:48 Amityville wrote:
im from korea, korea we have gsl, gsl 100x times better skill than awful foreigners. All this coming from a guy that has won nothing. What a complete clown this guy is.
while it might seem abit off or weird that a somewhat unaccomplished player goes out to say something like this, from personal experience i have to agree with him
when i played up and down i went 1-3 in my group, then 0-2 in the code a and the time i was in korea before then was gsl world invitational where i lost all my games aswell (i think it was 0-1 in the "clanwar" and 0-2 in the bracket).
from watching gsl on a daily basis its really insane how much they are improving all the time and how literally everyone is sick good. our known champions falling to code a or even code b left and right and constant rotation on whos considered among the top just goes to show the amount of very good players they have
i got to top16 at dreamhack without preparing for my opponents or even practicing the new dreamhack maps, its not a good result but still. to come top16 to code S is a sick achievement and it is wayyy wayyyyyyyy harder.
i prepared vs maruprime and studied his style closely the best i could, and practiced vs only terran about 3 weeks prior to my match. then when i had to play against him i lost 0-2 got my face absolutely stomped. you can take huk and naniwa as example too, who lost miserably the first period aswell, only after a few months were they able to step up their game enough while prior to that were strong enough to be favorites of foreigner events
so ye just from my own personal experience and my outlooks as a spectator watching mlg, dreamhack and gsl i think gsl is about 100 times harder lol.
trust me there are so many good players you have never even seen in gsl that are trying each month to qualify, players who practice just as much as the ones in code S and are almost as good
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On April 27 2012 06:57 ramask2 wrote:
He doesn't exactly have a winning personality, but he's sort of right.
Its probably easy to get far into this tournament. However, its a whole different story winning it. You have the fatigues from fighting so many bo3s, the nerves from playing in front of thousands of people. Its a different sort of challenge than playing at the GOM studio. Consider how he completely choked during the match with Thorzain, I think he probably gets it now.
im not sure why people are ragging on him for saying that GSL is a harder tournament; there is no controversy in that statement. in the rest of the interview, he comes off as bland, but not condescending. he even compliments nerchio and says he had a lot of luck in beating the foreigners up to that point. how many people are just reading the title to this op and not the rest of the interview?
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On April 27 2012 06:58 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_- And it's great. No, it isn't.
People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?
No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing. Well, at some point in the event it's always going to be Koreans vs Koreans anyway after they're done wiping the floor with foreigners, it's even sadder than to start with Koreans from the get-go and let the few foreigners that really deserve it have a shot against them :D
Thing is, Koreans aren't wiping the floor with foreigners. They're pulling out wins, but seeing Genius struggle at Dreamhack, and the amount of matches that go to a third game, I think there's a dynamic to the foreigner vs. Korean rivalry that's still attractive to viewers. Not every Korean is going to go 22-1 - a lot of them are not that solid.
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I dont think anyone is debating if GSL is harder or not. Its pretty much a fact that its harder. Thing is this guy has won nothing bro. Theres probably 20 or more foreigners better than him. He has no room to talk.
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United States15275 Posts
On April 27 2012 07:03 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:58 ZenithM wrote:On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_- And it's great. No, it isn't.
People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?
No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing. Well, at some point in the event it's always going to be Koreans vs Koreans anyway after they're done wiping the floor with foreigners, it's even sadder than to start with Koreans from the get-go and let the few foreigners that really deserve it have a shot against them :D Thing is, Koreans aren't wiping the floor with foreigners. They're pulling out wins, but seeing Genius struggle at Dreamhack, and the amount of matches that go to a third game, I think there's a dynamic to the foreigner vs. Korean rivalry that's still attractive to viewers. Not every Korean is going to go 22-1 - a lot of them are not that solid.
Of course Genius would struggle, he stinks at compressed tournaments.
On April 27 2012 07:05 Amityville wrote:
I dont think anyone is debating if GSL is harder or not. Its pretty much a fact that its harder. Thing is this guy has won nothing bro. Theres probably 20 or more foreigners better than him. He has no room to talk.
So? Sound won nothing before he got second at Homestory Cup, and his lifetime record in Korea is below 33%. And Sound is not exactly special in the KR scene, there are tons of Code B players better than him.
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On April 27 2012 07:01 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:57 ramask2 wrote:
He doesn't exactly have a winning personality, but he's sort of right.
Its probably easy to get far into this tournament. However, its a whole different story winning it. You have the fatigues from fighting so many bo3s, the nerves from playing in front of thousands of people. Its a different sort of challenge than playing at the GOM studio. Consider how he completely choked during the match with Thorzain, I think he probably gets it now. im not sure why people are ragging on him for saying that GSL is a harder tournament; there is no controversy in that statement. in the rest of the interview, he comes off as bland, but not condescending. he even compliments nerchio and says he had a lot of luck in beating the foreigners up to that point. how many people are just reading the title to this op and not the rest of the interview?
Not sure why you quoted me there, but I'm not ragging on him at all. I'm just pointing out that a LAN weekend tournament has a different sets of challenges than playing online or at GOM studio.
The bit about the winning personality is as you said, the bland answers.
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On April 27 2012 06:56 KillerDucky wrote:
Code-B player ties for 3rd place at Dreamhack. Code-B = tied for 73rd place at best.
Dreamhack at least 73/3 ~= 24X harder than GSL.
Q.E.D.
Ro8 Code-S player out before top 16 at Dreamhack. Ties for 17th place at best.
Dreamhack at least 2X harder than GSL.
Did I do it right?
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Yeah Monster, because one foreign tournament automatically means that all foreign tournaments are 100 times easier than GSL. Would love to see you go through Iron Squid/MLG/IP4 open bracket to show how much "easier" foreign tournaments are....
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On April 27 2012 04:56 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 04:53 Logros wrote:
Bit dumb for Monster to say that about Naniwa, he's only been practicing PvP and PvT for like the last month because that's all he's had to face in the GSL. Naniwa was always subpar in PvZ. Beating Nestea, Leenock, and DRG never changed that fact because those were the only zergs he actually defeated.
Yeah Naniwa's PvZ is sooooo subpar that he can only beat those top three zergs in the world. Oh wait...
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I dont know how Monster knows GSL is harder than foreign tournaments when he aint even in code A GSL :D You first gotta be in it to judge it.
If DRG, MC, Nestea... accomplished players would say stuff like this it would be ok, but for someone who just went to his first outside tournament its hilarious.
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On April 27 2012 07:06 ramask2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 07:01 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 27 2012 06:57 ramask2 wrote:
He doesn't exactly have a winning personality, but he's sort of right.
Its probably easy to get far into this tournament. However, its a whole different story winning it. You have the fatigues from fighting so many bo3s, the nerves from playing in front of thousands of people. Its a different sort of challenge than playing at the GOM studio. Consider how he completely choked during the match with Thorzain, I think he probably gets it now. im not sure why people are ragging on him for saying that GSL is a harder tournament; there is no controversy in that statement. in the rest of the interview, he comes off as bland, but not condescending. he even compliments nerchio and says he had a lot of luck in beating the foreigners up to that point. how many people are just reading the title to this op and not the rest of the interview? Not sure why you quoted me there, but I'm not ragging on him at all. I'm just pointing out that a LAN weekend tournament has a different sets of challenges than playing online or at GOM studio. The bit about the winning personality is as you said, the bland answers.
straw that broke the camel's back, and apparently based on a misinterpretation of what you meant by winning personality. ;-)
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idk about 100 times easier, but maybe 10 times easier would be a fair thing to say. I'd say for every good foreign player, there about 10 or so Koreans at about an equal level of skill. You also have to factor in travel, but I guess you could say the same thing about foreigners traveling across the ocean to compete at LANs in other continents.
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monster went through dreamhack... not MLG
theres a big difference of what he experienced
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United States15275 Posts
On April 27 2012 07:07 mcgriffin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 04:56 CosmicSpiral wrote:On April 27 2012 04:53 Logros wrote:
Bit dumb for Monster to say that about Naniwa, he's only been practicing PvP and PvT for like the last month because that's all he's had to face in the GSL. Naniwa was always subpar in PvZ. Beating Nestea, Leenock, and DRG never changed that fact because those were the only zergs he actually defeated. Yeah Naniwa's PvZ is sooooo subpar that he can only beat those top three zergs in the world. Oh wait...
Beat Nestea, lose to Haypro and Slivko and Hyun. Beat a DRG sick from Mexican food (who wasn't even good at ZvP at the time) with two 2 base colossus all-ins, get spanked by Ret a few months later. There's a pretty obvious pattern here.
P.S. Leenock is weak at ZvP. Beating him isn't that impressive bro.
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United Kingdom38149 Posts
On April 27 2012 07:08 Ryps wrote:
I dont know how Monster knows GSL is harder than foreign tournaments when he aint even in code A GSL :D You first gotta be in it to judge it.
If DRG, MC, Nestea... accomplished players would say stuff like this it would be ok, but for someone who just went to his first outside tournament its hilarious.
You know Monster once knocked MC out of the GSL entirely right? =p
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omg stop crying, ofc the GSL is tho top of the tops, and just watch the korean results in mlg/ipl/dreamhack overall.
foreigners celebrate a winner not coming from korea like a superhuman, even when only 4-5 koreans from code A or lower take part, and we know why.
everyone who thinks monster is just cocky or exaggerating is just afraid to face reality. he only straight says the truth, bear it and quit whining.
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On April 27 2012 07:03 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:58 ZenithM wrote:On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_- And it's great. No, it isn't.
People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?
No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing. Well, at some point in the event it's always going to be Koreans vs Koreans anyway after they're done wiping the floor with foreigners, it's even sadder than to start with Koreans from the get-go and let the few foreigners that really deserve it have a shot against them :D Thing is, Koreans aren't wiping the floor with foreigners. They're pulling out wins, but seeing Genius struggle at Dreamhack, and the amount of matches that go to a third game, I think there's a dynamic to the foreigner vs. Korean rivalry that's still attractive to viewers. Not every Korean is going to go 22-1 - a lot of them are not that solid.
Koreans aren't wiping the floor with top foreigners.
And if it weren't for Genius (who is a bit of a wildcard anyway, I doubt he practices that regularly :D) being a buffoon at DH, I would have even said "Random Koreans aren't wiping the floor with top foreigners".
There are like 4-5 guys who come remotely close to being a challenge to top Koreans...
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On April 27 2012 07:06 Batch wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:56 KillerDucky wrote:
Code-B player ties for 3rd place at Dreamhack. Code-B = tied for 73rd place at best.
Dreamhack at least 73/3 ~= 24X harder than GSL.
Q.E.D.
Ro8 Code-S player out before top 16 at Dreamhack. Ties for 17th place at best. Dreamhack at least 2X harder than GSL. Did I do it right?
You didn't put Q.E.D. at the end. ;-)
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People say "a million times easier" as an expression. Doesnt literally mean a million times easier. Could just be a translation thing. Also i remember someone saying that Naniwa goes all in once he sees mutas. Think it was on Destinys stream when he was in Korea. So a while back, but nonetheless it shows he wasnt always confident against zerg. Could still be the case.
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On April 27 2012 07:03 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:58 ZenithM wrote:On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_- And it's great. No, it isn't.
People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?
No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing. Well, at some point in the event it's always going to be Koreans vs Koreans anyway after they're done wiping the floor with foreigners, it's even sadder than to start with Koreans from the get-go and let the few foreigners that really deserve it have a shot against them :D Thing is, Koreans aren't wiping the floor with foreigners. They're pulling out wins, but seeing Genius struggle at Dreamhack, and the amount of matches that go to a third game, I think there's a dynamic to the foreigner vs. Korean rivalry that's still attractive to viewers. Not every Korean is going to go 22-1 - a lot of them are not that solid.
I love how you cherry pick results. Korean's not dominating? Yea ok. Tell yourself that.
And you say alot of koreans aren't that solid, well guess what, maybe 3 foreigners in the world are solid then.
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A little confidence can go a long way. Hubris, on the other hand...
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I would like to see this interview transcript in Korean so that I can read what he actually said in his own language. Translation can often have a huge impact on how someone sounds in interviews.
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I'm pretty sure Monster was just exaggerating how easy the foreign tournaments are compared to the GSL. Most, if not all people would agree that GSL has the best in players and competition, compared to most foreign tournaments like Dreamhack, which doesn't invite too many Koreans compared to MLG or IPL.
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On April 27 2012 07:23 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 07:03 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 06:58 ZenithM wrote:On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_- And it's great. No, it isn't.
People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?
No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing. Well, at some point in the event it's always going to be Koreans vs Koreans anyway after they're done wiping the floor with foreigners, it's even sadder than to start with Koreans from the get-go and let the few foreigners that really deserve it have a shot against them :D Thing is, Koreans aren't wiping the floor with foreigners. They're pulling out wins, but seeing Genius struggle at Dreamhack, and the amount of matches that go to a third game, I think there's a dynamic to the foreigner vs. Korean rivalry that's still attractive to viewers. Not every Korean is going to go 22-1 - a lot of them are not that solid. I love how you cherry pick results. Korean's not dominating? Yea ok. Tell yourself that. And you say alot of koreans aren't that solid, well guess what, maybe 3 foreigners in the world are solid then.
Only solid player is Cutter good sir... mofo snaps into a slim jim.
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On April 27 2012 06:47 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:40 Xarles wrote:On April 27 2012 06:35 ZenithM wrote:
Dreamhack was quite an easy tournament in terms of top Korean presence, way easier than the concurrent MLG for example. DH was certainly not at Code A level until way far off in the final bracket. And even then, matched against one of the strongest pawn of the foreigner scene (which he deems ezpz), he was not able to beat him.
So yeah, he's probably spot on about DH's difficulty, BUT it's not his place to say that because he's far from being one of the best Koreans (i.e. far from being one of the best players), AND DH was one of the easiest tournaments we've seen in a while (way easier than MLG, IPL etc...) True, but we could however look at PuMa's record in Korea and outside of it to judge the difficulty, or how much time NaNiwa has had to spend in Korea before he was actually able to win a Bo3 in GSL let alone reach ro8. Well, yeah, it's obvious than GSL is way harder, that's why I didn't even talk about it when I compared DH to other tournaments. DH was easy even compared with OTHER foreign tournaments. It's essentially stomping random Swedes for 2 days before finally having to be matched against top foreigners in quarter finals. Obviously any Korean is going to do well... That's why I think that it's a bit conceited of a declaration from Monster. Again, saying GSL is the hardest shit in the world is Captain Obvious level imo. But the caliber of play at IPL 4 (for example) was comparable I think, while it was certainly not at DH.
That's true; you pretty much have to earn your way to these statements among other things.
It is unfortunate, but interview inexperience(due to not really winning anything) may have something to do with it.
I remember NaNiwa being kinda awkward, and blunt at Providence with his statements, but he seems to have become more eloquent with his more recent interviews.
While I understand it if that's the case, I'm not too fond of it either heh.
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Code S is by far the hardest tournament in the world. When IPL, or MLG are considered strong it's because there are many Code S players.
Fact is, any foreigner in the tournament will be worse than every player in Code S. There's also a reason a foreigner has never qualified for Code A-- because most foreigners aren't even Code A level.
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On April 27 2012 07:30 xrapture wrote:
Code S is by far the hardest tournament in the world. When IPL, or MLG are considered strong it's because there are many Code S players.
Fact is, any foreigner in the tournament will be worse than every player in Code S. There's also a reason a foreigner has never qualified for Code A-- because most foreigners aren't even Code A level.
the upcoming gsl has many mlg finalists, gsl is only hard because it has so many mlg players!!!!
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On April 27 2012 07:30 xrapture wrote:
There's also a reason a foreigner has never qualified for Code A-- because most foreigners aren't even Code A level.
Should have started with this sentence so I wouldnt have wasted my time reading the rest.
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meh, probably a bit of an exaggeration not getting too butthurt over it, seems like an okay guy. Still, it's just kind of funny that it's coming from him. I've never been a fan of Monster because his play with zerg just makes me hurt. He seems to have good mechanics but he's just so sloppy and always overcommits while staying on lings for too long, and makes silly decisions.
Doesn't really have the decisiveness with his aggression like July, nowhere near the intelligence of Nestea, nor the finesse with his mechanics like DRG and Leenock have. He has beaten some notable terrans recently, and once knocked a slumping MC out of the gsl, but that's about all the credit I can give him. So yea, pretty average code A zerg to be being that cocky. Would have no problem if it were Polt or Genius saying this, at least they've actually gone far. Oh, and I believe this is his first foreign tournament, so yea...
Guess this was before Thorzain gave him the boots :D
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I wouldn't read to much into this guys math. He said he had an 80% chance of beating Thorzain and we all know how that turned out. haha.
Im sure they seem easier(which they probably are somewhat) but he is comparing an open tournament to gsl code a/s.
He could run into low masters people deep into the group stage with the dreamhack model. Also he has only been to this one tournament. So the statement he made about the foreign tournaments doesnt really hold up well.
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Why is there so much fuss? This has been common knowledge forever.
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On April 27 2012 05:42 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:40 Seldentar wrote:On April 27 2012 05:33 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 05:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 05:29 ssg wrote:
I could respect this statement from a well traveled Korean (ie MC) or even a tenured GSL veteran. But Monster? LOL The fact that a guy like Monster who isn't even Code A level in Korea can take 3rd at a 'Premier' foreign tournament ahead of a lot of mainstays of the foreign scene without even playing well demonstrates how right he is, at least about this Dreamhack which had the weakest player pool we've ever had at a Premier Event. Turn that logic around - Naniwa, a Code S Ro8 player, didn't make it out of the group stages at Dreamhack. Hence the interviewer challenging him with Naniwa right after. Did not Monster explain why Naniwa didn't make it out of the group stages? Because his weakeast matchup atm is PvZ since he hasn't been practicing it at all the last couple of months... so your logic doesn't work in reverse. If Naniwa had been eliminated by P or T then you would've had a point, however. Let's turn this right back around then. How can anyone be Code S "class" if one third of their potential matchups mean they die to Code B- players. Code S means very little then. Similarly, Polt is currently in Code S, isn't he?
No Polt is not currently in Code S, and Naniwa was seeded
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"Foreign tournaments 100 easier than GSL"
You don't say?
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On April 27 2012 07:34 SupLilSon wrote:
Why is there so much fuss? This has been common knowledge forever.
I'll echo this sentiment.
Even Naniwa said he's the worst player in Code S....
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On April 27 2012 06:32 bmml wrote:
Also since when can you not avoid meeting good players in GSL? They have a group drawing for a reason.
You can avoid the very best players(like top 10) but you can't avoid good players or even great players.
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On April 27 2012 06:48 Amityville wrote:
im from korea, korea we have gsl, gsl 100x times better skill than awful foreigners. All this coming from a guy that has won nothing. What a complete clown this guy is.
What is this logic people are using? HE SUCKS YET STILL MADE TOP 4! If anything that proves his point even more.
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On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_- And it's great. No, it isn't. Show nested quote +
People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?
No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing.
They are stomping foreigners though. A Korean has won every single Premier Tournament since October with the lone exception of Dreamhack (which featured a very weak Korean lineup and an overwhelming number of foreigners compared with Koreans).
That's six months of Koreans winning everything.
Obviously foreigners are able to win games some of the time, Koreans aren't so much better they never lose but they're better on average, a lot better and have probably won 80-90% of the prize money from Premier Tournaments in 2012 (I'm estimating, if someone wants to work it out and prove me wrong feel free). Which is pretty damn dominant. Not only do Koreans have the best players, they also have unbelievable depth. Basically every Korean on a pro team can beat even the absolute best foreigners (lol Inori) but you can count of one hand the foreigners who do that with even a tiny bit of regularity and even then none have shown enough consistency to beat enough to actually win a major tournament.
And to make things even more bleak for foreigners, Korea just doubled their talent pool and are going to be not only more skilled, but richer too now pro league is going Sc2.
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Looked like shit the only games I saw of him vs Nerchio and Thorzain. Def not rooting for him anytime soon. Ye 100x harder my ass, better back your words up, if you make a statement like that.
Also dont forget that a lot of top foreigners were also missing. Steph, Idra, Kas, Feast, Beasty, and so on. People always only comment that the koreans sucked ...
Polt and Genius are def Top Tier.
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On April 27 2012 04:46 zyzq wrote:
Don't know about the skill level part, but GSL definitely requires more mental toughness.
what? its the opposite, 3 day marathon compared to a set of games every 1-2 weeks?
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On April 27 2012 07:47 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_- And it's great. No, it isn't.
People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?
No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing. They are stomping foreigners though. A Korean has won every single Premier Tournament since October with the lone exception of Dreamhack (which featured a very weak Korean lineup and an overwhelming number of foreigners compared with Koreans). That's six months of Koreans winning everything. Obviously foreigners are able to win games some of the time, Koreans aren't so much better they never lose but they're better on average, a lot better and have probably won 80-90% of the prize money from Premier Tournaments in 2012 (I'm estimating, if someone wants to work it out and prove me wrong feel free). Which is pretty damn dominant. Not only do Koreans have the best players, they also have unbelievable depth. Basically every Korean on a pro team can beat even the absolute best foreigners (lol Inori) but you can count of one hand the foreigners who do that with even a tiny bit of regularity and even then none have shown enough consistency to beat enough to actually win a major tournament. And to make things even more bleak for foreigners, Korea just doubled their talent pool and are going to be not only more skilled, but richer too now pro league is going Sc2.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/leagues/2027_MLG_Orlando_2011 ..? Huk won an mlg too as well as http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/leagues/2026_IPL_Season_3 stephano won ipl3 .. both had a decent amount of koreans
not that i will disagree that koreans are becoming more obviously dominant.. but you are selling foreigners a little short
personally i think that alot of the startup pro teams and more iffy teams will fall by the wayside as the foreign scene is a little inflated with teams / tournaments / pro+semi pro players and after it collapses in a little it will be better for having 4-5 strong teams that may not be on the level of say skt1 but wont be terribad.
on a random sidenote dragonforce : soldiers of the wasteland just came on pandora \m/
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On April 27 2012 06:48 Amityville wrote:
im from korea, korea we have gsl, gsl 100x times better skill than awful foreigners. All this coming from a guy that has won nothing. What a complete clown this guy is.
I laughed at this. What you just wrote just proves his point even more. He hasnt had a good run in GSL, yet he gets 4th place in DH. He said what he thinks and he is entitled to that and its common fact that GSL is the hardest tournament in the world atm. You just made yourself look silly.
No need to be butthurt about the 100x comparison between gsl and other tournaments. it's of course an exaggeration but the expression that he simply used)
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Isnt this the same guy, who didnt even knew what team he was playing for ? Complete Clown I have to agree.
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Not gonna lie, this guy comes across as a bit of an egotistical douche.
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If he compares dreamhack stockholm to GSL then yes, GSL is definately a loooot harder. But I don't think anyone should generalize this fact to all foreign tournaments
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On April 27 2012 07:41 xrapture wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 07:34 SupLilSon wrote:
Why is there so much fuss? This has been common knowledge forever. I'll echo this sentiment. Even Naniwa said he's the worst player in Code S....
No, Naniwa was just reporting his mentality while preparing for his second group stage in GSL, he said that he initially himself the worst player in code S Ro16. Of course, that's obviously false, seeing as how he topped his group. Way to completely misrepresent his words.
+ Show Spoiler [The interview passage] +I: So to continue on the unreal stuff, the next group play. That's when you beat Genius and Virus 2-0. When you went into this second group play did you have any more confidence?
N: Not really, I felt that out of the 16 that was left, I was the worst player. That's what I thought at least. And I wasn't surprised when I was picked first either. I thought to myself, alright Genius got second last GSL he's an amazing player, he has been in code S for two years now and it's not surprising that he picked me. When I was gonna play, all I had in my mind was which build to use while trying to stay calm, as well asking the Startale guys for some tips, I came up with a few ideas how I was going to play. And everything went exactly as I planned, it felt amazing!
[Edit] In general regarding the interview, it's also important to note that this was before semifinals took place. Monster probably has a bit of a warped view because of the extremely easy brackets he's had, even relative to the level of a purely foreigner bracket. He faced no top tier foreigners until ThorZain, who defeated him (here defining top their as a foreigner winning a premier event, aka Huk, Naniwa, Stephano, Ret). While he did face Nerchio, he barely edged out 2-1, and Nerchio, while solid, hasn't proven himself in the LAN scene since he doesn't have a top 3 showing at any premier tournament.
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On April 27 2012 07:47 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_- And it's great. No, it isn't.
People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?
No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing. They are stomping foreigners though. A Korean has won every single Premier Tournament since October with the lone exception of Dreamhack (which featured a very weak Korean lineup and an overwhelming number of foreigners compared with Koreans). That's six months of Koreans winning everything. Obviously foreigners are able to win games some of the time, Koreans aren't so much better they never lose but they're better on average, a lot better and have probably won 80-90% of the prize money from Premier Tournaments in 2012 (I'm estimating, if someone wants to work it out and prove me wrong feel free). Which is pretty damn dominant. Not only do Koreans have the best players, they also have unbelievable depth. Basically every Korean on a pro team can beat even the absolute best foreigners (lol Inori) but you can count of one hand the foreigners who do that with even a tiny bit of regularity and even then none have shown enough consistency to beat enough to actually win a major tournament. And to make things even more bleak for foreigners, Korea just doubled their talent pool and are going to be not only more skilled, but richer too now pro league is going Sc2.
Player A wiping the floor with Player B says to me that Player A is so ahead of Player B that the game is a joke. That's never been my impression of foreigner vs. Korean matches in SC 2. Upsets happen, foreigners take games, and the top foreigners take several matches in a row. Going back to IPL, which had a stacked Korean line-up, HuK, Scarlett, Illusion, SaSe, Ret, and of course Stephano were all able to fight their way through Code A and Code S Koreans. That's not a list of the best foreigners in the world - that list gets a lot longer.
IdrA vs. Korean Protoss is not the state of the scene. Dimaga played a great match vs. HerO in NASL. Ret beat JYP in EGMC. Nerchio and Stephano have taken games off of Nestea, while Haypro and Demuslim have taken a series. Thorzain is returning to form with a 3-1 win vs. Polt and Violet, and with Lucifron coming back to SC 2 that's another foreigner Terran with the ability to upset the best. Underrated foreigners are upsetting Korean pros in each tournament, and that is what gives the scene its vibrancy.
I am a doom and gloomer when it comes to foreigner SC 2, but cheering for foreigners in SC 2, I've never felt that foreigner players are completely outclassed. Yeah, they're rough on the edges, and they go full foreigner at the worst times, but I've never felt that they have no shot at victory. The phrase full foreigner is an example of this - to full foreigner a match, you have to be ahead in the first place.
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On April 27 2012 04:48 Otolia wrote:
Very confident for someone who was very lucky to win against Nerchio ...
Amen.
I dont like his words for the most part, might be the truth till some extent but still, feeling excessively proud of himself just makes him a fool if u get what i mean.
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On April 27 2012 08:37 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 07:47 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_- And it's great. No, it isn't.
People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?
No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing. They are stomping foreigners though. A Korean has won every single Premier Tournament since October with the lone exception of Dreamhack (which featured a very weak Korean lineup and an overwhelming number of foreigners compared with Koreans). That's six months of Koreans winning everything. Obviously foreigners are able to win games some of the time, Koreans aren't so much better they never lose but they're better on average, a lot better and have probably won 80-90% of the prize money from Premier Tournaments in 2012 (I'm estimating, if someone wants to work it out and prove me wrong feel free). Which is pretty damn dominant. Not only do Koreans have the best players, they also have unbelievable depth. Basically every Korean on a pro team can beat even the absolute best foreigners (lol Inori) but you can count of one hand the foreigners who do that with even a tiny bit of regularity and even then none have shown enough consistency to beat enough to actually win a major tournament. And to make things even more bleak for foreigners, Korea just doubled their talent pool and are going to be not only more skilled, but richer too now pro league is going Sc2. Player A wiping the floor with Player B says to me that Player A is so ahead of Player B that the game is a joke. That's never been my impression of foreigner vs. Korean matches in SC 2. Upsets happen, foreigners take games, and the top foreigners take several matches in a row. Going back to IPL, which had a stacked Korean line-up, HuK, Scarlett, Illusion, SaSe, Ret, and of course Stephano were all able to fight their way through Code A and Code S Koreans. That's not a list of the best foreigners in the world - that list gets a lot longer. IdrA vs. Korean Protoss is not the state of the scene. Dimaga played a great match vs. HerO in NASL. Ret beat JYP in EGMC. Nerchio and Stephano have taken games off of Nestea, while Haypro and Demuslim have taken a series. Thorzain is returning to form with a 3-1 win vs. Polt and Violet, and with Lucifron coming back to SC 2 that's another foreigner Terran with the ability to upset the best. Underrated foreigners are upsetting Korean pros in each tournament, and that is what gives the scene its vibrancy. I am a doom and gloomer when it comes to foreigner SC 2, but cheering for foreigners in SC 2, I've never felt that foreigner players are completely outclassed. Yeah, they're rough on the edges, and they go full foreigner at the worst times, but I've never felt that they have no shot at victory. The phrase full foreigner is an example of this - to full foreigner a match, you have to be ahead in the first place.
I agree with your post and also "going full foreigner" is a hilarious expression. I'll have to steal it.
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his pic in the OP, is a perfect picture to show his self confidence.
I like his answers too, i like arrogant players.
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On April 27 2012 08:17 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 07:47 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_- And it's great. No, it isn't.
People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?
No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing. They are stomping foreigners though. A Korean has won every single Premier Tournament since October with the lone exception of Dreamhack (which featured a very weak Korean lineup and an overwhelming number of foreigners compared with Koreans). That's six months of Koreans winning everything. Obviously foreigners are able to win games some of the time, Koreans aren't so much better they never lose but they're better on average, a lot better and have probably won 80-90% of the prize money from Premier Tournaments in 2012 (I'm estimating, if someone wants to work it out and prove me wrong feel free). Which is pretty damn dominant. Not only do Koreans have the best players, they also have unbelievable depth. Basically every Korean on a pro team can beat even the absolute best foreigners (lol Inori) but you can count of one hand the foreigners who do that with even a tiny bit of regularity and even then none have shown enough consistency to beat enough to actually win a major tournament. And to make things even more bleak for foreigners, Korea just doubled their talent pool and are going to be not only more skilled, but richer too now pro league is going Sc2. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/leagues/2027_MLG_Orlando_2011 ..? Huk won an mlg too as well as http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/leagues/2026_IPL_Season_3 stephano won ipl3 .. both had a decent amount of koreans not that i will disagree that koreans are becoming more obviously dominant.. but you are selling foreigners a little short personally i think that alot of the startup pro teams and more iffy teams will fall by the wayside as the foreign scene is a little inflated with teams / tournaments / pro+semi pro players and after it collapses in a little it will be better for having 4-5 strong teams that may not be on the level of say skt1 but wont be terribad. on a random sidenote dragonforce : soldiers of the wasteland just came on pandora \m/
I meant that no foreigners has won a premier tournament (with the exception of Dreamhack) in 2012.
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On April 27 2012 08:37 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 07:47 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_- And it's great. No, it isn't.
People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?
No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing. They are stomping foreigners though. A Korean has won every single Premier Tournament since October with the lone exception of Dreamhack (which featured a very weak Korean lineup and an overwhelming number of foreigners compared with Koreans). That's six months of Koreans winning everything. Obviously foreigners are able to win games some of the time, Koreans aren't so much better they never lose but they're better on average, a lot better and have probably won 80-90% of the prize money from Premier Tournaments in 2012 (I'm estimating, if someone wants to work it out and prove me wrong feel free). Which is pretty damn dominant. Not only do Koreans have the best players, they also have unbelievable depth. Basically every Korean on a pro team can beat even the absolute best foreigners (lol Inori) but you can count of one hand the foreigners who do that with even a tiny bit of regularity and even then none have shown enough consistency to beat enough to actually win a major tournament. And to make things even more bleak for foreigners, Korea just doubled their talent pool and are going to be not only more skilled, but richer too now pro league is going Sc2. Player A wiping the floor with Player B says to me that Player A is so ahead of Player B that the game is a joke. That's never been my impression of foreigner vs. Korean matches in SC 2. Upsets happen, foreigners take games, and the top foreigners take several matches in a row. Going back to IPL, which had a stacked Korean line-up, HuK, Scarlett, Illusion, SaSe, Ret, and of course Stephano were all able to fight their way through Code A and Code S Koreans. That's not a list of the best foreigners in the world - that list gets a lot longer. IdrA vs. Korean Protoss is not the state of the scene. Dimaga played a great match vs. HerO in NASL. Ret beat JYP in EGMC. Nerchio and Stephano have taken games off of Nestea, while Haypro and Demuslim have taken a series. Thorzain is returning to form with a 3-1 win vs. Polt and Violet, and with Lucifron coming back to SC 2 that's another foreigner Terran with the ability to upset the best. Underrated foreigners are upsetting Korean pros in each tournament, and that is what gives the scene its vibrancy. I am a doom and gloomer when it comes to foreigner SC 2, but cheering for foreigners in SC 2, I've never felt that foreigner players are completely outclassed. Yeah, they're rough on the edges, and they go full foreigner at the worst times, but I've never felt that they have no shot at victory. The phrase full foreigner is an example of this - to full foreigner a match, you have to be ahead in the first place.
We're just debating semantics now. My definition of wiping the floor is Koreans taking home the overwhelming majority of the money, yours is Koreans seriel bum raping foreigners with no lube for a weekend before flying back to Korea.
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Pretty cocky for a nobody who played at an event with only a few top foreigners, including a guy who beat the shit out of him (Thorzain).
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Considering how few top players there were at dreamhack actually makes Monster looks like a genius. Some of the early groups were pitting code a/s material against not very good players.
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What a likeable guy. Stuff like that should be told after you 3-0 your opponent in the finals.
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Don't worry guys, this whole foreigner vs Korean debate won't matter when Brood war pros switch over xd
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On April 27 2012 08:45 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 08:37 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 07:47 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_- And it's great. No, it isn't.
People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?
No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing. They are stomping foreigners though. A Korean has won every single Premier Tournament since October with the lone exception of Dreamhack (which featured a very weak Korean lineup and an overwhelming number of foreigners compared with Koreans). That's six months of Koreans winning everything. Obviously foreigners are able to win games some of the time, Koreans aren't so much better they never lose but they're better on average, a lot better and have probably won 80-90% of the prize money from Premier Tournaments in 2012 (I'm estimating, if someone wants to work it out and prove me wrong feel free). Which is pretty damn dominant. Not only do Koreans have the best players, they also have unbelievable depth. Basically every Korean on a pro team can beat even the absolute best foreigners (lol Inori) but you can count of one hand the foreigners who do that with even a tiny bit of regularity and even then none have shown enough consistency to beat enough to actually win a major tournament. And to make things even more bleak for foreigners, Korea just doubled their talent pool and are going to be not only more skilled, but richer too now pro league is going Sc2. Player A wiping the floor with Player B says to me that Player A is so ahead of Player B that the game is a joke. That's never been my impression of foreigner vs. Korean matches in SC 2. Upsets happen, foreigners take games, and the top foreigners take several matches in a row. Going back to IPL, which had a stacked Korean line-up, HuK, Scarlett, Illusion, SaSe, Ret, and of course Stephano were all able to fight their way through Code A and Code S Koreans. That's not a list of the best foreigners in the world - that list gets a lot longer. IdrA vs. Korean Protoss is not the state of the scene. Dimaga played a great match vs. HerO in NASL. Ret beat JYP in EGMC. Nerchio and Stephano have taken games off of Nestea, while Haypro and Demuslim have taken a series. Thorzain is returning to form with a 3-1 win vs. Polt and Violet, and with Lucifron coming back to SC 2 that's another foreigner Terran with the ability to upset the best. Underrated foreigners are upsetting Korean pros in each tournament, and that is what gives the scene its vibrancy. I am a doom and gloomer when it comes to foreigner SC 2, but cheering for foreigners in SC 2, I've never felt that foreigner players are completely outclassed. Yeah, they're rough on the edges, and they go full foreigner at the worst times, but I've never felt that they have no shot at victory. The phrase full foreigner is an example of this - to full foreigner a match, you have to be ahead in the first place. We're just debating semantics now. My definition of wiping the floor is Koreans taking home the overwhelming majority of the money, yours is Koreans seriel bum raping foreigners with no lube for a weekend before flying back to Korea.
But that's what I'm talking about - people want to see foreigners vs. Koreans because they believe foreigners have the ability to win games and pull upsets.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
Are people really angry because he said that GSL was the hardest sc2 tournament?
And how is he cocky? Because he thought he was going to win?...
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On April 27 2012 08:48 LaM wrote:
Pretty cocky for a nobody who played at an event with only a few top foreigners, including a guy who beat the shit out of him (Thorzain).
What if Thorzain was Code S?
Probably not so cocky, then. Pros have said similar things before.
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On April 27 2012 07:00 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:48 Amityville wrote:
im from korea, korea we have gsl, gsl 100x times better skill than awful foreigners. All this coming from a guy that has won nothing. What a complete clown this guy is. while it might seem abit off or weird that a somewhat unaccomplished player goes out to say something like this, from personal experience i have to agree with him when i played up and down i went 1-3 in my group, then 0-2 in the code a and the time i was in korea before then was gsl world invitational where i lost all my games aswell (i think it was 0-1 in the "clanwar" and 0-2 in the bracket). from watching gsl on a daily basis its really insane how much they are improving all the time and how literally everyone is sick good. our known champions falling to code a or even code b left and right and constant rotation on whos considered among the top just goes to show the amount of very good players they have i got to top16 at dreamhack without preparing for my opponents or even practicing the new dreamhack maps, its not a good result but still. to come top16 to code S is a sick achievement and it is wayyy wayyyyyyyy harder. i prepared vs maruprime and studied his style closely the best i could, and practiced vs only terran about 3 weeks prior to my match. then when i had to play against him i lost 0-2 got my face absolutely stomped. you can take huk and naniwa as example too, who lost miserably the first period aswell, only after a few months were they able to step up their game enough while prior to that were strong enough to be favorites of foreigner events so ye just from my own personal experience and my outlooks as a spectator watching mlg, dreamhack and gsl i think gsl is about 100 times harder lol. trust me there are so many good players you have never even seen in gsl that are trying each month to qualify, players who practice just as much as the ones in code S and are almost as good
DING! There it is!
A player who has actually travelled to Korea to play and is probably the best person in this thread to make a comparison. So the people who got butthurt by some of Monsters comments in the interview can perhaps stop being butthurt now
Also you should probably take into consideration that this was a Korean doing an english interview on a german website, so I wouldn't be suprised if the wording is a little off and thats why some of his comments sound a little blunt lol.
One thing that would be interesting though would be a live tournament like this (with an open bracket) in Korea..
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I can understand him saying that about the latest dreamhack considering the competition there was almost non existent compared to the recent MLG and IPL.
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His opinions would hold more weight if he were a better player, he's just outright offensive, regarding Nani.
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On April 27 2012 09:31 lisward wrote:
His opinions would hold more weight if he were a better player, he's just outright offensive, regarding Nani.
shame on him for telling the truth. Naniwa's PvZ is his worst matchup by far.
All: 409-235 (63.51%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L W W W L W L L L L | View Games
vT: 174-89 (66.16%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L L W L L L L W W W | View Games
vZ: 109-80 (57.67%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W L L W W L L L L | View Games
vP: 126-66 (65.63%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L W L L W W W L W | View Games
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I remember MvPMonster
He was ST_Monster back then when he got killed by MKP in GSL Open 2
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And that's why GSL is the best tournament in the world. Props to Monster for not downplaying the difference in difficulty.
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Well good luck getting any sort of fans Monster. lol
I wonder if anybody will know him in a week
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I would've killed to see a 4th place math vs Ret. Would've been stomped, just like his matches vs. Thorzain. Hope to see him in more foreign events.
While hes right that the GSL is the hardest tournament, he's too arrogant given his "results". Some wins vs a couple foreigners does not a champion make.
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So I guess this is the thread where we take someone's (not entirely false) statements, which have been translated and possibly misinterpreted, and totally freak out about them.
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why is every1 getting so butt hurt over this? its true that gsl is a whole lot harder than foreign touraments, Dont be so delusional.
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United States15275 Posts
On April 27 2012 09:48 Severian wrote:
So I guess this is the thread where we take someone's (not entirely false) statements, which have been translated and possibly misinterpreted, and totally freak out about them.
As you can tell people are getting personally offended due to their emotional connections to the foreign scene.
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Everyone here is acting like a bunch of pussies.
The fact that he's sucked in GSL and gets to final 4 in his first foreign tournament doesn't descredit him, it only proves his point.
Naniwa hasn't been practicing pvz for like a month, means his pvz is weak. His STATS even confirm this. Stats + logic = truth.
Third, we've seen all of our best foreigners that have tried in the gsl get shit on at least once, harder than they would have lsot than if they were at a foreign tournament.
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Monster seems like kind of a dick :/
Also considering that only 3-4 koreans were actually in the tournament... ofc it was easier. He wouldn't have said that had he gone to MLG arena. (although I do admit GSL is certainly harder than even MLG, in some cases)
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On April 27 2012 09:50 Garth wrote:
Everyone here is acting like a bunch of pussies.
The fact that he's sucked in GSL and gets to final 4 in his first foreign tournament doesn't descredit him, it only proves his point.
Naniwa hasn't been practicing pvz for like a month, means his pvz is weak. His STATS even confirm this. Stats + logic = truth.
Third, we've seen all of our best foreigners that have tried in the gsl get shit on at least once, harder than they would have lsot than if they were at a foreign tournament.
By the same token, for him to judge all foreign tournaments based off of what is by far the weakest major foreign tournament this year is preposterous.
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Let's see... foreign tournaments usually have mostly foreigners.
+
Koreans are (generally) better than foreigners at SC2...
=
Koreans find foreigner events easy... whoa! the logic!
Seems like redundant news, do we really care Monster confirms this? IMO, seems like something useless to bring up, everyone who isn't in denial knows this, and its just going to cause problems talking about something most of us know is fact.
They should just be happy we're paying them to kick our asses for Entertainment, where is the praise for that? I'd rather them be honest, lol.
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i try :
Monster has 100x less skill than code s players
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why are ppl crying tears over this
gsl is the toughest tournament that is obvious. there's a reason koreans in gsl can come over to foreign tournaments and dominate.
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Time to use logic guys. International tournament difficult comes down to how many Koreans are present--the fewer the Koreans the less difficult it is. GSL is comprised of ONLY Koreans (save Naniwa this season) making it far more difficult. This is common sense that everyone should realize if you didn't actually take what Monster said as an insult.
That this is coming from an unaccomplished player doesn't make this any less true.
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On April 27 2012 09:36 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 09:31 lisward wrote:
His opinions would hold more weight if he were a better player, he's just outright offensive, regarding Nani. shame on him for telling the truth. Naniwa's PvZ is his worst matchup by far. All: 409-235 (63.51%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L W W W L W L L L L | View Games vT: 174-89 (66.16%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L L W L L L L W W W | View Games vZ: 109-80 (57.67%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W L L W W L L L L | View Games vP: 126-66 (65.63%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L W L L W W W L W | View Games
Of course, the reason why Naniwa is in Code S has nothing to do with player skill and everything to do with race.
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gsl is the toughest tournament that is obvious. there's a reason koreans in gsl can come over to foreign tournaments and dominate.
The problem is he is just downplaying foreigner tournys in general. Throw this guy in the open bracket of ipl4 and see how weak the foreigner tournament really are.
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On April 27 2012 10:21 Kenpark wrote:Show nested quote +gsl is the toughest tournament that is obvious. there's a reason koreans in gsl can come over to foreign tournaments and dominate. The problem is he is just downplaying foreigner tournys in general. Throw this guy in the open bracket of ipl4 and see how weak the foreigner tournament really are.
yea, he'd probably lose to a player in Code S...
what's your point lol.
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I don't see anything that he said that isn't true.. Why are people complaining?
GSL is harder than foreign tournaments. He didn't say anything about his own skill level. People are responding irrationally just because they follow the foreign scene so hard. Even Thorzain said that he was expecting more good players in the tournament, check his interview.
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yea, he'd probably lose to a player in Code S...
what's your point lol.
my point is that gsl is not 100x harder that a foreigner tournament. Read the thread name pls.
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my point is that gsl is not 100x harder that a foreigner tournament. Read the thread name pls.
Heh, it is kind of obvious that 100x is a hyperbole...
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i think GSL is more hard becuase of how much time between matchs that your next opponent can look up and watch pretty much every vod of you ever and come up with the perfect build that is the exact counter to your standard play more then the level of competition is 100 times harder
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On April 27 2012 10:39 Kenpark wrote:my point is that gsl is not 100x harder that a foreigner tournament. Read the thread name pls.
100x is just a random number, how hard is it to understand that he meant GSL is much much harder than foreign tournament (Dreamhack in particular) ?
Also, there is a reason why Korean b-teamers want to go to foreign teams.
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GSL is run so differently from other tournaments that they aren't even comparable.
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Are you kidding me ? Ofc 100x is not a random number. Dont you think some Americans for example would be offended if sb like Snute for example says eu ladder is 100x times harder than na ladder ? After getting some easy wins against subpar players ?
I just find it really disrespectful. This dreamhack after all was an open qualifier with a lot of amateurs, and his statement really downgrades foreigner tournaments in general.
Ofc he can state what he wants. But dont expect to get a lot of fans like this.
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Some posts here are fucking enraging.
Jesus fucking Christ, for God's fucking sake, are you guys really picking on him because he stated a fact? Are you butthut because he claims that foreigns are 100x worse than koreans? Because if you are, then you must be a real fool.
Foreigns suck compared to koreans, get over it. Wake up from your pink colored dreams and take it as a fucking man.
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On April 27 2012 10:57 OopsOopsBaby wrote:
the truth hurts.
On April 27 2012 10:57 fabiano wrote:
Some posts here are fucking enraging.
Jesus fucking Christ, for God's fucking sake, are you guys really picking on him because he stated a fact? Are you butthut because he claims that foreigns are 100x worse than koreans? Because if you are, then you must be a real fool.
Foreigns suck compared to koreans, get over it. Wake up from your pink colored dreams and take it as a fucking man.
Holy shit finally, so many crying foreigner fanboys in this thread. Koreans are leagues above foreigners, Korean tournaments are leagues ahead of foreign tournaments. Deal with it.
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On April 27 2012 11:00 Ausfailia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 10:57 fabiano wrote:
Some posts here are fucking enraging.
Jesus fucking Christ, for God's fucking sake, are you guys really picking on him because he stated a fact? Are you butthut because he claims that foreigns are 100x worse than koreans? Because if you are, then you must be a real fool.
Foreigns suck compared to koreans, get over it. Wake up from your pink colored dreams and take it as a fucking man. Holy shit finally, so many crying foreigner fanboys in this thread. Koreans are leagues above foreigners, Korean tournaments are leagues ahead of foreign tournaments. Deal with it.
So many crying Europeans in this thread, it looks like.
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definitely lowered my opinion of monster a tiny bit. after he's had any notable results at an MLG or IPL then he can talk shit about the difficulty of foreign tourneys.
still he is just a kid and allowed some leeway in that regard and he definitely seems to be upping his game lately, so I'll still be cheering for him vT&P.
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On April 27 2012 10:57 fabiano wrote:
Some posts here are fucking enraging.
Jesus fucking Christ, for God's fucking sake, are you guys really picking on him because he stated a fact? Are you butthut because he claims that foreigns are 100x worse than koreans? Because if you are, then you must be a real fool.
Foreigns suck compared to koreans, get over it. Wake up from your pink colored dreams and take it as a fucking man.
I don't think there is anything difficult about the GSL format. In fact, it's probably the easiest tournament format possible. Long breaks between matches, lots of information about your opponents beforehand, etc. It just has the highest concentration of good players. It is unlikely that you will have an "easy match."
Winning IPL4 or IPL4 is a bigger achievement than winning a single GSL. Same level of competition, little prep time, and a large number of games in a few days.
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United States15275 Posts
On April 27 2012 11:14 Bigtony wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 10:57 fabiano wrote:
Some posts here are fucking enraging.
Jesus fucking Christ, for God's fucking sake, are you guys really picking on him because he stated a fact? Are you butthut because he claims that foreigns are 100x worse than koreans? Because if you are, then you must be a real fool.
Foreigns suck compared to koreans, get over it. Wake up from your pink colored dreams and take it as a fucking man. Winning IPL4 or IPL4 is a bigger achievement than winning a single GSL. Same level of competition, little prep time, and a large number of games in a few days.
LOLOLOLOLOL it's been a long time since I've seen such a ignorant, unfounded opinion. The only thing that's harder about IPL/MLG is the endurance factor. If that's your measure of skill then ladder grinding is the hardest tournament of all time.
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On April 27 2012 11:14 Bigtony wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 10:57 fabiano wrote:
Some posts here are fucking enraging.
Jesus fucking Christ, for God's fucking sake, are you guys really picking on him because he stated a fact? Are you butthut because he claims that foreigns are 100x worse than koreans? Because if you are, then you must be a real fool.
Foreigns suck compared to koreans, get over it. Wake up from your pink colored dreams and take it as a fucking man. I don't think there is anything difficult about the GSL format. In fact, it's probably the easiest tournament format possible. Long breaks between matches, lots of information about your opponents beforehand, etc. It just has the highest concentration of good players. It is unlikely that you will have an "easy match." Winning IPL4 or IPL4 is a bigger achievement than winning a single GSL. Same level of competition, little prep time, and a large number of games in a few days.
Lol no. Think about it. Lots of information about your opponents, but they have the same information about you. You can win an MLG or IPL4 with a lot of cheesy play. You can take advantage of being relatively unknown.
The fact that every pro thinks GSL is the harder tournament should tell you something. You don't know more than them about tournament formats, sorry. No amount of bronze league theory crafting will change that.
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So many deluded foreigners posting in this thread...
As a general rule (there will always be a few exceptions) foreigners suck at Starcraft - they always have, and they always will.
Please just accept this and enjoy the beautiful game that we all love.
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I'm not sure why Europeans are weeping so much for the honor of DreamHack. It was a good tournament but nobody refers to the group stages as "nerd hell" like the Code A preliminary qualifiers.
Even beyond the argument about competition, consider these comparisons:
DH Group Stage #1: groups of 3, round robin, bottom 1 eliminated
DH Group Stage #2: groups of 4, round robin, bottom 2 eliminated
DH Group Stage #3: groups of 4, round robin, bottom 2 eliminated
DH bracket: group of 16, single elimination, winner is champion
Code A preliminary: groups of 16, single elimination, bottom 15 eliminated
Code A RO48: 20% chance of facing a Code S player, single elimination, 24 losers must re-qualify
Code A RO32: 33% chance of facing a Code S player, single elimination, 16 losers go to Up&Down
Code A RO16: 50% chance of facing a Code S player, single elimination, 8 losers go to Up&Down, 8 winners go to Code S
Code S RO32: groups of 4, modified bracket, bottom 2 sent to Code A
Code S RO16: self-selected groups of 4, modified bracket, bottom 2 sent to Code A
Code S RO8: single elimination, winner is champion
...yeah, it looks 100x harder to win GSL than to win DH. And yeah, you can see why Naniwa might say it looks unfair that he can get an automatic Code S seed and start instantly in the RO32. Also why he would have been stupid to turn down such a gift.
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While I can agree they are easier than the GSL, how come you don't see the many GSL champions that attend these things take the gold?
I understand he wasn't speaking literally, but if Korea was as easily accessible as some of the other foreign events I think we'd see more foreigners in at least Code A.
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On April 27 2012 11:10 TheAngryZergling wrote:
definitely lowered my opinion of monster a tiny bit. after he's had any notable results at an MLG or IPL then he can talk shit about the difficulty of foreign tourneys.
still he is just a kid and allowed some leeway in that regard and he definitely seems to be upping his game lately, so I'll still be cheering for him vT&P.
Why do you morons not understand. He is not talking shit about foreigners relative to him. He is talking shit about foreign tournaments relative to GSL.
It's the same as me saying that Mount Everest is harder to climb than Mount Himalchuli. It's true, but nobody is saying Mount Himalchuli is easy to climb, and it doesn't necessarily mean that I am capable of climbing either of them.
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Pretty confident words for korean b teamer, who got the easiest groups, and then went 2-1 to Seiplo (not top protoss) and won by luck nerchio lol
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On April 27 2012 04:43 horsebanger wrote:
thanks monster for dropping new facts, nice interview
rofl yeah. Everyone pretty much knows that GSL >>>>>> foreign tournaments, although I don't know if DRG is *currently* the #1 player in the world (for a good reason, see previous line).
Monster's a cool cat though, so I'm glad he got a little interview
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On April 27 2012 11:25 Corsica wrote:
Pretty confident words for korean b teamer, who got the easiest groups, and then went 2-1 to Seiplo (not top protoss) and won by luck nerchio lol
Read my post directly above yours and see how it relates to your post.
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I bet Monster would have been bitchslapped at the MLG that happened over the same weekend. You know, the tournament where all the sick Koreans were that weekend?
EDIT: He can't just lump all foreign tournaments together with the one he happened to attend.
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Just saying what we all knew, big surprise.
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United States15275 Posts
LOL what luck are you geniuses referring to? He beat Nerchio straight-up, not Monster's fault his opponent can't handle ling/baneling aggression. ZvZ isn't a coinflip matchup.
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I believe you mean "likable" and not "sympathetic" (which isn't at all the same as "sympathisch" in German)
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On April 27 2012 10:09 Makro wrote:
i try :
Monster has 100x less skill than code s players
The fact that Monster made it to a top 4 in a foreign tournament would mean that GSL is (100x100) = 10000x more difficult?
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On April 27 2012 11:27 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 11:25 Corsica wrote:
Pretty confident words for korean b teamer, who got the easiest groups, and then went 2-1 to Seiplo (not top protoss) and won by luck nerchio lol Read my post directly above yours and see how it relates to your post.
Well, players are what makes tournaments harder/easier, I would argue that format is harder, and because you have to play it in 3 days (rather than weeks for gsl) and because he had to play on not home soil too (jetlag) so i would argue he is saying that its players he is talking about, I would be ok if it was drg, mma, mvp who say that (for the record drg, mvp say that there is no huge difference in skill, though it exists), but to hear that from korean b teamer who judges this from his first tournament seems kinda childish
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On April 27 2012 11:39 Corsica wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 11:27 zefreak wrote:On April 27 2012 11:25 Corsica wrote:
Pretty confident words for korean b teamer, who got the easiest groups, and then went 2-1 to Seiplo (not top protoss) and won by luck nerchio lol Read my post directly above yours and see how it relates to your post. Well, players are what makes tournaments harder/easier, I would argue that format is harder, and because you have to play it in 3 days (rather than weeks for gsl) and because he had to play on not home soil too (jetlag) so i would argue he is saying that its players he is talking about, I would be ok if it was drg, mma, mvp who say that (for the record drg, mvp say that there is no huge difference in skill, though it exists), but to hear that from korean b teamer who judges this from his first tournament seems kinda childish
You missed my point. He never said the the tourney was easy. He said that it is easier than GSL. Which it is. Nowhere does he say anything about his skill level relative to foreigners or anything like that.
Also the fact that a 'korean b teamer' gets top 4 in your big european tournament should be further evidence of the fact.
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He's saying that GSL is harder than foreign tournaments, I dont see what the problem is.
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I'm with MorroW on this one - loads of people don't understand how hard the competition for GSL really is (sooo many awesome players, some of whom are completely unknown). Monster is just saying it as it is - being polite is pointless, and i don't think he cares tbh.
People are comparing 3 days of tournaments as "grueling" compared to the GSL format, but remember this: the professionalism that goes into playing in the GSL is beyond what people comprehend on this forum. Try grinding for months vs Only Terran or Protoss. That's the dedication, for like 12 hours a day.
There is an inherent difference in knowledge between all the pros and TL'ers - they know it first hand.
If the foreign scene wants to "catch up" I think there needs to be a fundamental change in mentality. Just grinding ladder for 15 hours a day and managing to get into GM is not good enough of its own. Similarly to aspiring chess players not just relying on playing thousands of games to become good, or footballers playing game after game. Proper training is required... and I don't see this within the foreigner scene as much as in Korea.
With proleague joining SC2, I'm afraid that the bar will only rise in Korea even higher to the extent where the foreign scene is just swamped out, and it truly becomes a two-tier system with Koreans where the GSL will accomodate for a "token" foreigner rather than it being meritoriously awarded... this was similar to BW back in early 2000's when we had a few foreigner protoss players (e.g. 베르트랑) in starleague.
From the perspective of an avid fan of global SC2, I hope the foreign scene can keep apace!
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On April 27 2012 11:56 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 11:39 Corsica wrote:On April 27 2012 11:27 zefreak wrote:On April 27 2012 11:25 Corsica wrote:
Pretty confident words for korean b teamer, who got the easiest groups, and then went 2-1 to Seiplo (not top protoss) and won by luck nerchio lol Read my post directly above yours and see how it relates to your post. Well, players are what makes tournaments harder/easier, I would argue that format is harder, and because you have to play it in 3 days (rather than weeks for gsl) and because he had to play on not home soil too (jetlag) so i would argue he is saying that its players he is talking about, I would be ok if it was drg, mma, mvp who say that (for the record drg, mvp say that there is no huge difference in skill, though it exists), but to hear that from korean b teamer who judges this from his first tournament seems kinda childish You missed my point. He never said the the tourney was easy. He said that it is easier than GSL. Which it is. Nowhere does he say anything about his skill level relative to foreigners or anything like that. Also the fact that a 'korean b teamer' gets top 4 in your big european tournament should be further evidence of the fact.
GSL difficulty / 100 = very easy...
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On April 27 2012 11:56 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 11:39 Corsica wrote:On April 27 2012 11:27 zefreak wrote:On April 27 2012 11:25 Corsica wrote:
Pretty confident words for korean b teamer, who got the easiest groups, and then went 2-1 to Seiplo (not top protoss) and won by luck nerchio lol Read my post directly above yours and see how it relates to your post. Well, players are what makes tournaments harder/easier, I would argue that format is harder, and because you have to play it in 3 days (rather than weeks for gsl) and because he had to play on not home soil too (jetlag) so i would argue he is saying that its players he is talking about, I would be ok if it was drg, mma, mvp who say that (for the record drg, mvp say that there is no huge difference in skill, though it exists), but to hear that from korean b teamer who judges this from his first tournament seems kinda childish You missed my point. He never said the the tourney was easy. He said that it is easier than GSL. Which it is. Nowhere does he say anything about his skill level relative to foreigners or anything like that. Also the fact that a 'korean b teamer' gets top 4 in your big european tournament should be further evidence of the fact.
GSL difficulty / 100 = very easy...
Ggandol = Code A with only winning 2 games... trust me even wierder things happened in sc2 then easy ro4...watch his road, ret got ro4 too, but compare their difficultes...
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so the solution is get better foreign players. We have a few that can compete with the best, but definitely not enough.
Get on the training and stop slacking
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A like how everyone ignored Morrows post when it proved to be very insightful. GSL, even if you get lots of preparation time, so does your opponent. In that time, its a huge mind game. Will he play his usual style? Or will he go for something unorthodox to throw me off? You prepare in that mentality for 3 weeks then the result is decided in 3 games. Lose, and you usually have to crawl back up from Code A. Win, and you could potentially get thrown in Code A again, or if you make RO8, you get back in code S where the process starts all over...
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On April 27 2012 07:00 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:48 Amityville wrote:
im from korea, korea we have gsl, gsl 100x times better skill than awful foreigners. All this coming from a guy that has won nothing. What a complete clown this guy is. while it might seem abit off or weird that a somewhat unaccomplished player goes out to say something like this, from personal experience i have to agree with him when i played up and down i went 1-3 in my group, then 0-2 in the code a and the time i was in korea before then was gsl world invitational where i lost all my games aswell (i think it was 0-1 in the "clanwar" and 0-2 in the bracket). from watching gsl on a daily basis its really insane how much they are improving all the time and how literally everyone is sick good. our known champions falling to code a or even code b left and right and constant rotation on whos considered among the top just goes to show the amount of very good players they have i got to top16 at dreamhack without preparing for my opponents or even practicing the new dreamhack maps, its not a good result but still. to come top16 to code S is a sick achievement and it is wayyy wayyyyyyyy harder. i prepared vs maruprime and studied his style closely the best i could, and practiced vs only terran about 3 weeks prior to my match. then when i had to play against him i lost 0-2 got my face absolutely stomped. you can take huk and naniwa as example too, who lost miserably the first period aswell, only after a few months were they able to step up their game enough while prior to that were strong enough to be favorites of foreigner events so ye just from my own personal experience and my outlooks as a spectator watching mlg, dreamhack and gsl i think gsl is about 100 times harder lol. trust me there are so many good players you have never even seen in gsl that are trying each month to qualify, players who practice just as much as the ones in code S and are almost as good
Went back and found it, very good post. I can't believe some of the posts in the first few pages though, just filled with overreactions and ignorance. I thought SC2 was supposed to have a mature, close knit community.
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Also the fact that a 'korean b teamer' gets top 4 in your big european tournament should be further evidence of the fact.
Again it was a open qualifier with lots of amateur/master level players. And he didnt even qualifiy for the big event. (Only top 2 directly qualify)
So he beat Siheo, Protosser,NevaKee, Wonnaplay all unknown amateurs, 3 Protosses who suck in PvZ for ages in Elfi, Mana and Seiplo. Gets outplayed by Nerchio, so that he decided to random all in vs him in zvz and calls foreigner tournaments in general 100x times easier than gsl. Ye of course ...
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Koreans are better.
DEAL WITH IT.
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On April 27 2012 12:40 Kenpark wrote:
So he beat Siheo, Protosser,NevaKee, Wonnaplay all unknown amateurs, 3 Protosses who suck in PvZ for ages in Elfi, Mana and Seiplo. Gets outplayed by Nerchio, so that he decided to random all in vs him in zvz and calls foreigner tournaments in general 100x times easier than gsl. Ye of course ...
This just hammers the point in harder. Monster got eliminated from the Code A preliminary by GhostKingPrime, whose first round match in Code A was against NaDa.
His GSL season 1 Up&Down group was NaDa, Lucky, HuK, and Alicia. He then lost to Seed in the first round of Code A.
I would confidently say his GSL opponents have been substantially better than his DH opponents. I would not say it's a "Koreans > foreigners" thing. I would say it's this: Advancing to the bracket stage of DreamHack is like Germany's austerity plan for Europe in 2011. Advancing to the bracket stage of Code S is like Germany's austerity plan for Europe in 1939.
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We could also compare Naniwas possible opponents to get to the gsl finals and compare that with the players Squirtle has to go through to get to ipl4 finals (foreigner tournament).
Naniwa: Genius, Virus, Ryung, Puzzle, MVP, Oz/Parting
Squirtle: Nestea, MMA, MKP, Bomber, MC, Creator, Ace, Puma, Sase, Byun, Tod
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On April 27 2012 13:19 Kenpark wrote:
We could also compare Naniwas possible opponents to get to the gsl finals and compare that with the players Squirtle has to go through to get to ipl4 finals (foreigner tournament).
Naniwa: Genius, Virus, Ryung, Puzzle, MVP, Oz/Parting
Squirtle: Nestea, MMA, MKP, Bomber, MC, Creator, Ace, Puma, Sase, Byun, Tod
Yeah, I guess he should have said that tournaments with foreigners are 100 time harder instead of foreign tournaments, because IPL4 barely qualifies as a foreign tournament.
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On April 27 2012 11:56 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 11:39 Corsica wrote:On April 27 2012 11:27 zefreak wrote:On April 27 2012 11:25 Corsica wrote:
Pretty confident words for korean b teamer, who got the easiest groups, and then went 2-1 to Seiplo (not top protoss) and won by luck nerchio lol Read my post directly above yours and see how it relates to your post. Well, players are what makes tournaments harder/easier, I would argue that format is harder, and because you have to play it in 3 days (rather than weeks for gsl) and because he had to play on not home soil too (jetlag) so i would argue he is saying that its players he is talking about, I would be ok if it was drg, mma, mvp who say that (for the record drg, mvp say that there is no huge difference in skill, though it exists), but to hear that from korean b teamer who judges this from his first tournament seems kinda childish You missed my point. He never said the the tourney was easy. He said that it is easier than GSL. Which it is. Nowhere does he say anything about his skill level relative to foreigners or anything like that. Also the fact that a 'korean b teamer' gets top 4 in your big european tournament should be further evidence of the fact.
Yup, pretty much the truth. I've been following GSL since Season 1 and I've rarely heard his name mentioned. People have posted lists of notable players that don't make the cut for code A, it's astounding. Literally every name is a top pro. GSL casters have talked about it, players have talked about it, it's been known. Code A qualifiers is among the fiercest competition in SC2 anywhere. Let alone code A/S themselves.
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He told the truth, why are people getting mad?
He went 2-1 against the champ of Dreamhack. A moment of missed concentration would've won him the tournament. There's no way Polt could've stood a chance against him.
Polt and Monster are 2 code B level players that got into the top 4. If it weren't for seeds, code S would've been devoid for foreigners for years. Every tournament a player like Polt wins just shows how much easier foreign events are. If you think 3 days of playing is grueling, you're just being ridiculous. Days 1-2 of IEM/MLG are easier than code B level GSL practice sessions for players like these.
Playing ~4 hours of competitive games a day isn't grueling for someone who practices 8-12 hours a day in a team house against code B/A/S level players.
GSL is hard because the best foreigners go to Korea and fail to qualify. Foreign tournaments are easier because the worst Koreans can go to wherever and win stuff. There hasn't been a single foreigner that's qualified for code A through code B. There have been multiple code B Korean dudes in the top 8 of plenty of tournaments. That's the huge level disparity.
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Well to be fair Naniwa in shape against Z would mop monster up easy. Monster is really talking out of place for a player with no good results. All the games I watched of him were him getting really lucky he's a decent player who got lucky congrats bro. And Omg gsl is harder who would have guessed? Really man I think you need to take a seat and win something before talking high and mighty especially about other players who have won multiple championships.
@ boxturtle Could it be because 99% of foreigners can't even attempt GSL? Some players are really good at that style of play. How do we know there wouldn't be a ton of foreigners if we all had access not just a few who can only be there for short periods of time.
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He went 2-1 against the champ of Dreamhack. A moment of missed concentration would've won him the tournament. There's no way Polt could've stood a chance against him
Polt is a GSL champion, and is a very strong player. You think that polt wouldn't have stood a chance against monster? Monster looked pretty bad in his matched vs. thorzain, thorzain threw the first game away after getting a huge lead through standard play, monster botched a roach bane all in, and then thorzain took him apart in game 3. Monster actually looked pretty damn bad imo, and was lucky to not get 2-0d. In my mind Polt is by far the favorite vs monster. Did you watch the games?
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On April 27 2012 13:40 CajunMan wrote:
Well to be fair Naniwa in shape against Z would mop monster up easy. Monster is really talking out of place for a player with no good results. All the games I watched of him were him getting really lucky he's a decent player who got lucky congrats bro. And Omg gsl is harder who would have guessed? Really man I think you need to take a seat and win something before talking high and mighty especially about other players who have won multiple championships.
When did he talk high and mighty?
If anything you foreign fanboys should be thankful that he said Naniwa failed because of his PvZ. He didn't say that Naniwa is not a true code s player, nor did he say that Naniwa is overrated or just not good enough to advance. He said that Naniwa has poor PvZ and implied that any other matchup would have seen Naniwa advancing. That's actually not BM at all.
When koreans say anything you lot get your panties in a bunch because you interpret it as being stuck up and BM.
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Lol Cool story Monster. Tell me how you lost to ThorZaIN again.
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If anything you foreign fanboys should be thankful that he said Naniwa failed because of his PvZ. He didn't say that Naniwa is not a true code s player, nor did he say that Naniwa is overrated or just not good enough to advance. He said that Naniwa has poor PvZ and implied that any other matchup would have seen Naniwa advancing. That's actually not BM at all.
Thankful? It is what it is. If someone gets to CodeS round of 8 by dominating the competition(9-1 in his groups i believe) there is not much to talk about. Saying that he is not a "true" code S player is a bit stupid(unless you mean the seeding by GOMTV, which is neither here nor there).
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On April 27 2012 13:47 sdecker32 wrote:Show nested quote +If anything you foreign fanboys should be thankful that he said Naniwa failed because of his PvZ. He didn't say that Naniwa is not a true code s player, nor did he say that Naniwa is overrated or just not good enough to advance. He said that Naniwa has poor PvZ and implied that any other matchup would have seen Naniwa advancing. That's actually not BM at all. Thankful? It is what it is. If someone gets to CodeS round of 8 by dominating the competition(9-1 in his groups i believe) there is not much to talk about. Saying that he is not a "true" code S player is a bit stupid(unless you mean the seeding by GOMTV, which is neither here nor there).
You misunderstood. I'm not saying that those things are true about Naniwa. I'm saying that if Monster actually wanted to BM Naniwa, there are many ways he could have done it. If monster actually thought Naniwa wasn't code s quality, he would have said so. Instead he said that the reason Naniwa lost is because it is his worst MU, and any other race he probably would have advanced.
And yet Naniwa fans are saying that is disrespectful.
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He went 2-1 against the champ of Dreamhack. A moment of missed concentration would've won him the tournament. There's no way Polt could've stood a chance against him.
Ok not sure if trolling. Have you actually watched any of Monsters games ? Polt is def top tier imo, which Monster looked light years away from. Polt beat Squirtle at IPL, if I remember correctly and had Alive at the verge of losing. I had the stream muted, but he was ahead 170vs130 supply 4vs3bases in game 3 in the losers bracket.
I think you dont know what you are talking about.
Polt was also 3:0, 3:0, 3:1 vs Thorzain before that finals.
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To all of the butthurt foreigner fanboys that couldn't stand someone told the truth,
Go back a few pages and read Morrow's comment.
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On April 27 2012 13:53 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 13:47 sdecker32 wrote:If anything you foreign fanboys should be thankful that he said Naniwa failed because of his PvZ. He didn't say that Naniwa is not a true code s player, nor did he say that Naniwa is overrated or just not good enough to advance. He said that Naniwa has poor PvZ and implied that any other matchup would have seen Naniwa advancing. That's actually not BM at all. Thankful? It is what it is. If someone gets to CodeS round of 8 by dominating the competition(9-1 in his groups i believe) there is not much to talk about. Saying that he is not a "true" code S player is a bit stupid(unless you mean the seeding by GOMTV, which is neither here nor there). You misunderstood. I'm not saying that those things are true about Naniwa. I'm saying that if Monster actually wanted to BM Naniwa, there are many ways he could have done it. If monster actually thought Naniwa wasn't code s quality, he would have said so. Instead he said that the reason Naniwa lost is because it is his worst MU, and any other race he probably would have advanced. And yet Naniwa fans are saying that is disrespectful.
Why would he BM Naniwa with something as absurd as saying he's not code s class. He has been wrecking people left and right. And I also believe that Naniwa's PvZ isn't too bad either. Here's why:
He has practiced PvP/T almost exclusively.
There was still a possibility he would face a zerg in RO8 and therefore he might not have wanted to reveal his strategies.
Artosis & Incontrol (I believe it was them) who were casting his games even stated in his games vs Hyun that Naniwa played sloppy and improvised and also came to the conclusion that he wanted his strategies to remain a secret for code s.
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100 times... its a fucking exaggeration. stop hyping over it.
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On April 27 2012 14:19 chosenkerrigan wrote:
To all of the butthurt foreigner fanboys that couldn't stand someone told the truth,
Go back a few pages and read Morrow's comment.
And what exactly makes Monster such an expert on foreign tournaments, rather than say, taeja, who said IPL4 was as hard as code s? Monster has been to exactly one foreign tournament, which was by far the easiest foreign tournament field in recent memory. Saying Koreans are far superior to foreigners is indisputably correct, saying the GSL is 100x harder than "foreign tournaments" is just ignorant. Not all foreign tournaments are created equal.
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On April 27 2012 07:00 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:48 Amityville wrote:
im from korea, korea we have gsl, gsl 100x times better skill than awful foreigners. All this coming from a guy that has won nothing. What a complete clown this guy is. while it might seem abit off or weird that a somewhat unaccomplished player goes out to say something like this, from personal experience i have to agree with him when i played up and down i went 1-3 in my group, then 0-2 in the code a and the time i was in korea before then was gsl world invitational where i lost all my games aswell (i think it was 0-1 in the "clanwar" and 0-2 in the bracket). from watching gsl on a daily basis its really insane how much they are improving all the time and how literally everyone is sick good. our known champions falling to code a or even code b left and right and constant rotation on whos considered among the top just goes to show the amount of very good players they have i got to top16 at dreamhack without preparing for my opponents or even practicing the new dreamhack maps, its not a good result but still. to come top16 to code S is a sick achievement and it is wayyy wayyyyyyyy harder. i prepared vs maruprime and studied his style closely the best i could, and practiced vs only terran about 3 weeks prior to my match. then when i had to play against him i lost 0-2 got my face absolutely stomped. you can take huk and naniwa as example too, who lost miserably the first period aswell, only after a few months were they able to step up their game enough while prior to that were strong enough to be favorites of foreigner events so ye just from my own personal experience and my outlooks as a spectator watching mlg, dreamhack and gsl i think gsl is about 100 times harder lol. trust me there are so many good players you have never even seen in gsl that are trying each month to qualify, players who practice just as much as the ones in code S and are almost as good
People. Stop being drama queens. Listen to what someone who has had experience in this exact field.
You're all fucking making a big deal out of absolutely nothing. Someone who has experience in the exact situation said it's the truth about gsl being 100x harder. Monster bm'd? Where? He just said NaNiwa has a weak PvZ that's why he was eliminated. Christ you ladies are just fucking pathetic; wanting to cut someones throat because you don't have enough drama this week.
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There was still a possibility he would face a zerg in RO8 and therefore he might not have wanted to reveal his strategies.
Artosis & Incontrol (I believe it was them) who were casting his games even stated in his games vs Hyun that Naniwa played sloppy and improvised and also came to the conclusion that he wanted his strategies to remain a secret for code s.
Both zergs were already knocked out of Code S when dreamhack was played. I think Artosis & InControl was referring to zergs in the rest of the tournaments. Since they were both likely to make it through, they felt Nani wanted to save some strats for the later group stages/final brackets.
Also, I think if a foreigner said GSL was much harder, no one would pay attention to it. People just offended because a Korean said it.
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Isn't this Monster's first foreign tournament? Of course that Dreamhack Open was relatively easy. The level of difficulty rises with the number of Koreans playing. If he had went to MLG or IPL, he most likely would have said differently.
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On April 27 2012 15:08 Blennd wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 14:19 chosenkerrigan wrote:
To all of the butthurt foreigner fanboys that couldn't stand someone told the truth,
Go back a few pages and read Morrow's comment. And what exactly makes Monster such an expert on foreign tournaments, rather than say, taeja, who said IPL4 was as hard as code s? Monster has been to exactly one foreign tournament, which was by far the easiest foreign tournament field in recent memory. Saying Koreans are far superior to foreigners is indisputably correct, saying the GSL is 100x harder than "foreign tournaments" is just ignorant. Not all foreign tournaments are created equal.
Because IPL 4 had the most Code S koreans, alot of Code A/B Koreans... oh yea RO16 was 15/16 korean.. so....
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On April 27 2012 15:22 Flowjo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 15:08 Blennd wrote:On April 27 2012 14:19 chosenkerrigan wrote:
To all of the butthurt foreigner fanboys that couldn't stand someone told the truth,
Go back a few pages and read Morrow's comment. And what exactly makes Monster such an expert on foreign tournaments, rather than say, taeja, who said IPL4 was as hard as code s? Monster has been to exactly one foreign tournament, which was by far the easiest foreign tournament field in recent memory. Saying Koreans are far superior to foreigners is indisputably correct, saying the GSL is 100x harder than "foreign tournaments" is just ignorant. Not all foreign tournaments are created equal. Because IPL 4 had the most Code S koreans, alot of Code A/B Koreans... oh yea RO16 was 15/16 korean.. so....
Great, now people are just going to bring up IPL4, which is the most korean stacked foreign tournament ever, to try and wash away the countless ez foreign tournaments that came before it.
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The fact that tournament difficulty is rated based on the number of GSL quality Koreans attending should be more than enough to solidify what Monster says. Stop taking his hyperbole so seriously.
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On April 27 2012 15:34 SupLilSon wrote:
The fact that tournament difficulty is rated based on the number of GSL quality Koreans attending should be more than enough to solidify what Monster says. Stop taking his hyperbole so seriously.
This, jeeez people he didn´t insult anyone let go and let the truth sink in
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i lost to 2 zergs and i won against genius, i havent played PvZ in over a month at all so thats obviously the reason i lost. My main objective was to do my very best in gsl and that required me to sacrifise one matchup that i didnt need then. Obviously if i get zerg the next season ill prepare alot for it. My pvz just wasnt good enough without practising. thats all. i agree with monster saying it. ill try better next time to prepare against zerg.. I just didnt care that much about dreamhack in comparision to GSL because the mappool was garbage so i knew i didnt have any time to prepare for it.. ( I played my Ro16 group ONE day before i left for dreamhack )
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On April 27 2012 15:28 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 15:22 Flowjo wrote:On April 27 2012 15:08 Blennd wrote:On April 27 2012 14:19 chosenkerrigan wrote:
To all of the butthurt foreigner fanboys that couldn't stand someone told the truth,
Go back a few pages and read Morrow's comment. And what exactly makes Monster such an expert on foreign tournaments, rather than say, taeja, who said IPL4 was as hard as code s? Monster has been to exactly one foreign tournament, which was by far the easiest foreign tournament field in recent memory. Saying Koreans are far superior to foreigners is indisputably correct, saying the GSL is 100x harder than "foreign tournaments" is just ignorant. Not all foreign tournaments are created equal. Because IPL 4 had the most Code S koreans, alot of Code A/B Koreans... oh yea RO16 was 15/16 korean.. so.... Great, now people are just going to bring up IPL4, which is the most korean stacked foreign tournament ever, to try and wash away the countless ez foreign tournaments that came before it.
Sorry. My bad I didn't make it clear. I meant that IPL4 was more of a Korean tournament rather a Foreign one.
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MLG is a lot different to other foriegn tournaments, hes probably right in the facts of dreamhack etc, while you get the creme of europe in them, in MLG you have SO MANY koreans and the koreans are so much more consistent. It why the majority of time in other tournaments you have so many koreans getting to later stages and normally going 1,2,3,4 too..
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If all Code B, Code A and Code S travels to major tournaments from the open brackets - I wouldn't be surprised to see 8 Koreans in RO8 even in MLG, IPL etc. I just won't be surprised at all.
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Another thing that I would like to is how Monster said 100 times which in Korean in 백배. It is a very common hyperbole expression - obviously the translator translated it too directly. 백배 and 천배 something something is a very common expression in Korean
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People making a big deal out of nothing.
People making a big deal out of nothing.
Would people be happier if Monster said "Foreign tournaments are 3.14159265 easier than GSL"?
1.5x?
1.1x?
1.000001x?
I miss the days when people could have non-inflammatory opinions which didn't get flamed. If you think Monster's comment is inflammatory you might be the problem...
Besides. All tournaments I watch are foreigner tournaments from my view. I'm over this generalisation and categorisation between Korea and the rest.
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On April 27 2012 18:12 bittman wrote:
People making a big deal out of nothing.
People making a big deal out of nothing.
Would people be happier if Monster said "Foreign tournaments are 3.14159265 easier than GSL"?
1.5x?
1.1x?
1.000001x?
I miss the days when people could have non-inflammatory opinions which didn't get flamed. If you think Monster's comment is inflammatory you might be the problem...
Besides. All tournaments I watch are foreigner tournaments from my view. I'm over this generalisation and categorisation between Korea and the rest.
"twice as hard" or "far harder" would be acceptable
saying 100x is unneeded gloating from someone who got knocked out by a forienger
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"twice as hard" or "far harder" would be acceptable
saying 100x is unneeded gloating from someone who got knocked out by a forienger
different languages have terms which does not translate well. Like when we say in English, player A got raped by player B. Do we really mean player A physically raped player B?
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On April 27 2012 18:16 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 18:12 bittman wrote:
People making a big deal out of nothing.
People making a big deal out of nothing.
Would people be happier if Monster said "Foreign tournaments are 3.14159265 easier than GSL"?
1.5x?
1.1x?
1.000001x?
I miss the days when people could have non-inflammatory opinions which didn't get flamed. If you think Monster's comment is inflammatory you might be the problem...
Besides. All tournaments I watch are foreigner tournaments from my view. I'm over this generalisation and categorisation between Korea and the rest. "twice as hard" or "far harder" would be acceptable saying 100x is unneeded gloating from someone who got knocked out by a forienger
Read one post above the one you quoted, dear lord.
On April 27 2012 18:08 CP-Jun wrote:
Another thing that I would like to is how Monster said 100 times which in Korean in 백배. It is a very common hyperbole expression - obviously the translator translated it too directly. 백배 and 천배 something something is a very common expression in Korean
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It's a no secret that foreign tournaments don't have as many strong contenders as the GSL, which is the premier tournament when looking at skill.
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haha is the picture meant to make us think that he is a toolbag?
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Tournaments usually don't have the same amount of competitiveness in each tournament because many people are focused on the more difficult tournaments such as GSL over MLG or IPL or Dreamhack. Normally I think foreigners like to try GSL because they want to get better while some Koreans want to try foreign tournaments to gain new fans, new experiences, and possible chances at bigger prize pools.
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On April 27 2012 18:16 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 18:12 bittman wrote:
People making a big deal out of nothing.
People making a big deal out of nothing.
Would people be happier if Monster said "Foreign tournaments are 3.14159265 easier than GSL"?
1.5x?
1.1x?
1.000001x?
I miss the days when people could have non-inflammatory opinions which didn't get flamed. If you think Monster's comment is inflammatory you might be the problem...
Besides. All tournaments I watch are foreigner tournaments from my view. I'm over this generalisation and categorisation between Korea and the rest. "twice as hard" or "far harder" would be acceptable saying 100x is unneeded gloating from someone who got knocked out by a forienger
hyperbole
(hī-pûr'bə-lē)
n.
A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hyperbole
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Lol what are ppl getting worked up over exactly? A tournament in korea consisting entirely of the best korean players is much more difficult than a tournament of predominantly foreigners with a few korean invites? Isnt that about as obvious as it gets ??
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srsly what did you expect if you forumalte the question like: you never were able to get into code s and struggeled really hard in code A.
should he say that foreign tournaments arent that much easier and he is just a bad player thats why he struggeled in GSL? No obviously noone would say that so the only correct answer without saying that u are not as good as the other korean players is to say that foreign tournaments are 100 times easier.
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haha he looks like a smug mofo in that picture
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He sounds butthurt about his GSL record if you ask me...
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i dont even consider him an elite tbh
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I am starting to like this monster guy sounds like a guy who doesn't gives a damn and is here to do some serious winning . Korean dominance is coming back I can feel it ! .
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On April 27 2012 15:22 Flowjo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 15:08 Blennd wrote:On April 27 2012 14:19 chosenkerrigan wrote:
To all of the butthurt foreigner fanboys that couldn't stand someone told the truth,
Go back a few pages and read Morrow's comment. And what exactly makes Monster such an expert on foreign tournaments, rather than say, taeja, who said IPL4 was as hard as code s? Monster has been to exactly one foreign tournament, which was by far the easiest foreign tournament field in recent memory. Saying Koreans are far superior to foreigners is indisputably correct, saying the GSL is 100x harder than "foreign tournaments" is just ignorant. Not all foreign tournaments are created equal. Because IPL 4 had the most Code S koreans, alot of Code A/B Koreans... oh yea RO16 was 15/16 korean.. so....
Yes that's exactly my point. He said foreign tournaments, not foreign players. IPL4 was a foreign tournament, simply because Korean's participated in it and did well doesn't mean it wasn't a foreign tournament. Foreign tournament =/= foreign players.
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On April 27 2012 23:19 Sawamura wrote:
I am starting to like this monster guy sounds like a guy who doesn't gives a damn and is here to do some serious winning . Korean dominance is coming back I can feel it ! .
haha i think i like monster too. I love when players show some personality and dont just give interviews like a scripted PR statement :D
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On April 27 2012 22:23 TheSubtleArt wrote:
Lol what are ppl getting worked up over exactly? A tournament in korea consisting entirely of the best korean players is much more difficult than a tournament of predominantly foreigners with a few korean invites? Isnt that about as obvious as it gets ??
Yes it is, but the truth hurts for alot of people here.
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On April 28 2012 03:30 Blennd wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 15:22 Flowjo wrote:On April 27 2012 15:08 Blennd wrote:On April 27 2012 14:19 chosenkerrigan wrote:
To all of the butthurt foreigner fanboys that couldn't stand someone told the truth,
Go back a few pages and read Morrow's comment. And what exactly makes Monster such an expert on foreign tournaments, rather than say, taeja, who said IPL4 was as hard as code s? Monster has been to exactly one foreign tournament, which was by far the easiest foreign tournament field in recent memory. Saying Koreans are far superior to foreigners is indisputably correct, saying the GSL is 100x harder than "foreign tournaments" is just ignorant. Not all foreign tournaments are created equal. Because IPL 4 had the most Code S koreans, alot of Code A/B Koreans... oh yea RO16 was 15/16 korean.. so.... Yes that's exactly my point. He said foreign tournaments, not foreign players. IPL4 was a foreign tournament, simply because Korean's participated in it and did well doesn't mean it wasn't a foreign tournament. Foreign tournament =/= foreign players.
Right, so foreign tournaments are considered hard because of the Koreans that are involved.
So I'm guessing the premier Korean tournament with the best of those Koreans would be harder.
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On April 28 2012 03:56 RockIronrod wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 03:30 Blennd wrote:On April 27 2012 15:22 Flowjo wrote:On April 27 2012 15:08 Blennd wrote:On April 27 2012 14:19 chosenkerrigan wrote:
To all of the butthurt foreigner fanboys that couldn't stand someone told the truth,
Go back a few pages and read Morrow's comment. And what exactly makes Monster such an expert on foreign tournaments, rather than say, taeja, who said IPL4 was as hard as code s? Monster has been to exactly one foreign tournament, which was by far the easiest foreign tournament field in recent memory. Saying Koreans are far superior to foreigners is indisputably correct, saying the GSL is 100x harder than "foreign tournaments" is just ignorant. Not all foreign tournaments are created equal. Because IPL 4 had the most Code S koreans, alot of Code A/B Koreans... oh yea RO16 was 15/16 korean.. so.... Yes that's exactly my point. He said foreign tournaments, not foreign players. IPL4 was a foreign tournament, simply because Korean's participated in it and did well doesn't mean it wasn't a foreign tournament. Foreign tournament =/= foreign players. Right, so foreign tournaments are considered hard because of the Koreans that are involved. So I'm guessing the premier Korean tournament with the best of those Koreans would be harder.
Probably a little bit. But I don't think anyone was raving about how easy IPL4 was compared to GSL.
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Pretty big talk for someone that has no chance of winning any tournament in the near future
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He is a pompous bastard. How can the GSL be 100 times better if many top Koreans still play (and lose) in foreign tournaments? It is time for Korean ethnocentrism to cease.
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On April 28 2012 03:59 Blennd wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 03:56 RockIronrod wrote:On April 28 2012 03:30 Blennd wrote:On April 27 2012 15:22 Flowjo wrote:On April 27 2012 15:08 Blennd wrote:On April 27 2012 14:19 chosenkerrigan wrote:
To all of the butthurt foreigner fanboys that couldn't stand someone told the truth,
Go back a few pages and read Morrow's comment. And what exactly makes Monster such an expert on foreign tournaments, rather than say, taeja, who said IPL4 was as hard as code s? Monster has been to exactly one foreign tournament, which was by far the easiest foreign tournament field in recent memory. Saying Koreans are far superior to foreigners is indisputably correct, saying the GSL is 100x harder than "foreign tournaments" is just ignorant. Not all foreign tournaments are created equal. Because IPL 4 had the most Code S koreans, alot of Code A/B Koreans... oh yea RO16 was 15/16 korean.. so.... Yes that's exactly my point. He said foreign tournaments, not foreign players. IPL4 was a foreign tournament, simply because Korean's participated in it and did well doesn't mean it wasn't a foreign tournament. Foreign tournament =/= foreign players. Right, so foreign tournaments are considered hard because of the Koreans that are involved. So I'm guessing the premier Korean tournament with the best of those Koreans would be harder. Probably a little bit. But I don't think anyone was raving about how easy IPL4 was compared to GSL.
The big difference is the preparation time. Both players having a long preparation time to face each other makes strategies in Code S games a lot deeper and complex than those of a fast foreign tournament, in which most players prepare cookie-cutter builds they can use in every situation. You see this particularly in Koreans, who tend to use the exact same strat/build order on many games in foreign tournaments, so they can advance without making such a big effort.
And people.. please.. stop making a big deal out of nothing. Even if he thinks it's actually 100x harder, so what? It's his opinion, that is all, no need to be so butthurt about it it's just an opinion.
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Everyone here is being stupid and overreacting. He is %100 correct with what he says and i assume that with translations it probably made it sound more blunt than it actually was. Anyone who is saying that DH was not 100x easier than GSL is kidding themselves. Check the amount of top foreigners that would be considered favourites for tournaments. Now check that against those guys who have gone to Korea and done well or even got into the GSL.
Only a very select few of the top foreigners have what it takes to handle GSL. IMO those people are Stephano, Sen, HuK, Naniwa, Thorzain, SaSe (I know he hasnt had much success in Korea but i hold him in the same league) and a few others. The people who could maybe do well or at least benefit from time in Korea to go that extra step are Kas, MaNa, MorroW, Ret, IdrA, SelecT, Demuslim, Socke, ToD, Grubby, LucifroN (I think will be challenging the top guys soon, personal opinion) + probably quite a few others. Of all those people Minus the top group there are probably hundreds of Koreans that are better, therefore GSL is 100 times harder. Easy solved. People need to stop being so butthurt over silly things
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Lol people are angry over a hyperbole. Even if it wasn't meant to be one by Monster, which I doubt anyhow, he isn't that far from the truth.
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On April 28 2012 04:06 Lore-Fighting wrote:
He is a pompous bastard. How can the GSL be 100 times better if many top Koreans still play (and lose) in foreign tournaments? It is time for Korean ethnocentrism to cease.
what?? I mean, yea Polt has lost to Stephano and Thorzain I guess.. and Monster @ DH but Koreans have been dominant in every foreign tournament across the board since they started flying out. Lest you forget the hardest tournament is probably Code A qualifiers (in another words, not even close to S level) that no foreigner has ever won/got through. I think it's pretty dignified "ethnocentrism" ..
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I think it makes sense that he says that. I mean he got top 4 dreamhack and isn't doing all that well in gsl so it stands to reason that he thinks gsl is way harder right?
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hi guys my think wrong.. very very sorry
i`m Than my think Easily ro 8 and i`m not going code s So i thought
but thorzain lose
and my think wrong...
this is not my intention....
I can't write English...
sry.. im regret...
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On April 28 2012 04:51 MVPMonster wrote:
hi guys my think wrong.. very very sorry
i`m Than my think Easily ro 8 and i`m not going code s So i thought
but thorzain lose
and my think wrong
so.. sry
this is not my intention....
Lol don't be sorry man, no big deal.
Very nice of you to come to TL and say this, but no harm, people just like to talk about anything :D
Good luck Monster!
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
On April 28 2012 04:51 MVPMonster wrote:
hi guys my think wrong.. very very sorry
i`m Than my think Easily ro 8 and i`m not going code s So i thought
but thorzain lose
and my think wrong...
this is not my intention....
I can't write English...
sry.. im regret...
rofl, don't feel bad, most people here have gone a bit mad. Congrats on top 4 at Dreamhack, you had the least hype going into the tournament, but did sick good. Loosing to T-Zain is no shame!
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And it's a known fact that GSL is harder, foreign's tournaments are easier to win, ask drg.
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On April 28 2012 04:51 MVPMonster wrote:
hi guys my think wrong.. very very sorry
i`m Than my think Easily ro 8 and i`m not going code s So i thought
but thorzain lose
and my think wrong...
this is not my intention....
I can't write English...
sry.. im regret...
No problems.
I just took it as friendly smack-talk
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never knew so many people would get so mad over a hyperbole
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On April 28 2012 04:51 MVPMonster wrote:
hi guys my think wrong.. very very sorry
i`m Than my think Easily ro 8 and i`m not going code s So i thought
but thorzain lose
and my think wrong...
this is not my intention....
I can't write English...
sry.. im regret...
people are just way to sensitive, personally i will forgive you if you stream
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He's right though, this made me a fan
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On April 28 2012 04:51 MVPMonster wrote:
hi guys my think wrong.. very very sorry
i`m Than my think Easily ro 8 and i`m not going code s So i thought
but thorzain lose
and my think wrong...
this is not my intention....
I can't write English...
sry.. im regret...
Don't apologize, you were 100% correct and the only people that got upset are butthurt foreigners with an inferiority complex.
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monster looks stoned like shit.
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On April 28 2012 04:51 MVPMonster wrote:
hi guys my think wrong.. very very sorry
i`m Than my think Easily ro 8 and i`m not going code s So i thought
but thorzain lose
and my think wrong...
this is not my intention....
I can't write English...
sry.. im regret...
apology accepted. oh wait this is TL
he made an account just to post this. let's end it here
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A korean pro registers on TL to apologize? Whats going on with this world?
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Canada1637 Posts
On April 28 2012 04:51 MVPMonster wrote:
hi guys my think wrong.. very very sorry
i`m Than my think Easily ro 8 and i`m not going code s So i thought
but thorzain lose
and my think wrong...
this is not my intention....
I can't write English...
sry.. im regret...
hey its ok, you're good ^^.
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United States15275 Posts
On April 28 2012 04:51 MVPMonster wrote:
hi guys my think wrong.. very very sorry
i`m Than my think Easily ro 8 and i`m not going code s So i thought
but thorzain lose
and my think wrong...
this is not my intention....
I can't write English...
sry.. im regret...
Well you are right, even if it was delivered in a extremely blunt manner. Congratulations on your top 4 placement at Dreamhack, MVP was right to send you out there.
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On April 28 2012 15:05 paschl wrote:
monster looks stoned like shit.
haha, yeah he does.
and foreign tournies and gsl are such different formats it's hard to compare them. mlg tournies require incredible endurance due to the sheer number of games one has to play in a weekend. gsl has a much longer time to prep for each matchup, and the players are of higher caliber.
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On April 27 2012 04:45 Corsica wrote:
i think he might be right a little, but in MLG, you have to play for 3 consecutive days while in GSL you have weeks to prepare for your opponent...Better ask Squirtle what he thinks in terms of difficulty since he reached finals of ipl4, also Naniwa didnt play as well as he did in GSL (wonder why)
First off i think Monster is being a little bit biased. but he does have merit. BUT the main reason why i am against this is because it is the nature of the beast. GSL is over longer period, MLG is a grind. And Naniwa probably had jet lag as he got there only about 2 days before.
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I think you guys might be overestimating the endurance aspect of MLG a bit. Sure, it exists, but most korean progamers practice 10 to 12 hours a day. They are used to playing at a high level of play for hours and hours on end. Sure, you can't prepare special strats and stuff with that many games, but in a tournament like MLG where you don't have to/can't prepare for your opponent, you don't really need to.
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Holy shit he actually made an account to apologise for stating his opinion on the calibre of foreign tournaments?
Everybody in this thread that took offence to what he said should be neutered.
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On April 28 2012 04:51 MVPMonster wrote:
hi guys my think wrong.. very very sorry
i`m Than my think Easily ro 8 and i`m not going code s So i thought
but thorzain lose
and my think wrong...
this is not my intention....
I can't write English...
sry.. im regret...
I think this needs to be added to the OP, so it does not get buried under the nerd rage that is TL.
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On April 28 2012 15:35 Ausfailia wrote:
Holy shit he actually made an account to apologise for stating his opinion on the calibre of foreign tournaments?
Everybody in this thread that took offence to what he said should be neutered.
This, so much.
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Monster: Well, I think the foreign tournaments are about a 100 times easier than GSL. But I consider GSL to be the best tournament, all the elite players are in GSL.
It was over exaggeration... We all know GSL is the hardest tournament everything else is relative.
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Naniwa mentioned that the map pool was messed up for Dreamhack, too. I believe other players/commentators were saying that there were way too many maps, and too many new/weird ones. And yes, Naniwa had just been prepping for the matchups in his recent Code S stretch, so that was probably a contributing factor.
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On April 28 2012 15:30 zefreak wrote:
I think you guys might be overestimating the endurance aspect of MLG a bit. Sure, it exists, but most korean progamers practice 10 to 12 hours a day. They are used to playing at a high level of play for hours and hours on end. Sure, you can't prepare special strats and stuff with that many games, but in a tournament like MLG where you don't have to/can't prepare for your opponent, you don't really need to.
There's a big difference in playing "10 to 12 hours a day" and playing 6-8 competitive hours. It's a lot more mentally taxing, and it's a reason why finals in foreign tournaments usually end up entertaining, because both players are so exhausted that more mistakes happen on both ends.
Also, I'm sure foreign tournaments would end up much harder if more top players participated. Right now, the elite wade through low-level pros and open contenders until they hit the Ro8 or Ro4 and hit another top level pro. GSL is top level from Code A Ro24 and up.
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i cant see how his comments are cocky, GSL prob is ALOT harder then foreign tournaments(especially the number of players who are really good is alot higher, so that even even qualifying for gsl can be really hard even for good players).
and saying that he will talk differently now that he got beat doesnt make sense,as in the gsl he cant even get into the main tournament while at DH he got quite far(though i have to agree the player pool was not that great this particular edition).
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On April 28 2012 16:25 annedeman wrote:
i cant see how his comments are cocky, GSL prob is ALOT harder then foreign tournaments.
and saying that he will talk differently now that he got beat doesnt make sense,as in the gsl he cant even get into the main tournament while at DH he got quite far(though i have to agree the player pool was not that great this particular edition).
I agree. It's obvious GSL is much harder when every foreign event is generally won by a Korean, that you guessed, is in the GSL.
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Lol people are so pissed for no reason...
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On April 28 2012 04:51 MVPMonster wrote:
hi guys my think wrong.. very very sorry
i`m Than my think Easily ro 8 and i`m not going code s So i thought
but thorzain lose
and my think wrong...
this is not my intention....
I can't write English...
sry.. im regret...
It's okay monster! No Hate here. If that is your opinion then it is okay. We all have different opinions in this world.
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On April 28 2012 04:51 MVPMonster wrote:
hi guys my think wrong.. very very sorry
i`m Than my think Easily ro 8 and i`m not going code s So i thought
but thorzain lose
and my think wrong...
this is not my intention....
I can't write English...
sry.. im regret...
All good I'm sure it means a lot to the people who are angry that you went out of your way to come here and write this.
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Monster has won a new fan in me with that post, what a boss.
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Wow, gotta give credit to Monster. Making an account just to post an apology which wasn't even needed since he's entitled to state his opinion. :o Going out of his way like that..I think he just won some new fans :D (myself included!) <3
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Monster seems to be an elitist... :/
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On April 28 2012 17:04 Baozer wrote:
Monster seems to be an elitist... :/
And here comes sweden with the post of the day..
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It's ridiculous that there was enough fuss in the first place that he had to make an account just to apologize...
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On April 28 2012 17:12 SupLilSon wrote:
It's ridiculous that there was enough fuss in the first place that he had to make an account just to apologize...
pretty much, but hey everyone has to be right these days.
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Don't worry, the next time Monster gives an interview to the foreign community (if he ever does again), he'll say something like "foreigners are very skilled and the games will be hard but I look forward to giving good games", and so will every other Korean who doesn't want a 20-page complaint thread on TL, and then we can go back to complaining that all the Koreans are robots and show no personality.
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I like how people talk about Naniwa like he's a mainstay of Code S. He has been playing very well this season but last year he was 0-10 and couldn't even keep a Code A spot.
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Austria24417 Posts
On April 28 2012 04:51 MVPMonster wrote:
hi guys my think wrong.. very very sorry
i`m Than my think Easily ro 8 and i`m not going code s So i thought
but thorzain lose
and my think wrong...
this is not my intention....
I can't write English...
sry.. im regret...
Don't worry, you didn't do anything wrong Thank you for showing great games at Dreamhack!
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sigh, TL users being drama queens again. We even manage to create a big enough fuss so that Monster had to make an account to apologize. I feel sorry for the guy.
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We should be the ones apologizing for being pathetic busy bodies. Remember that Naniwa incident with horrid translation?
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first off, u cant translate tone in an interview from korean geeze. and Monster made it to Code A that almost no foreigners (idra artosis jinro and sen in open season and maybe 1 or 2 later?) are ever able to do. so when u guys say hes accomplished near to nothing, at least its way more than all the top foreigners. where would naniwa be w/o his Code S seed? still in Code B where he belongs.
i also thins its hilarious how whenever foreigners fail hard in GSL, theres posts upon posts of excuses for jetlag but whenever the rare occurrence of a foreigner beating koreans in foreign tournaments, jetlag becomes a non issue.
Here are the facts: GSL is 100x times harder than foreign tournaments (to win or place well in), korean players are the best players in the world, the top foreigners are able to compete with the top koreans for now, and foreigners would still be having trouble in GSL w/o seeds.
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On April 28 2012 17:22 Severian wrote:
Don't worry, the next time Monster gives an interview to the foreign community (if he ever does again), he'll say something like "foreigners are very skilled and the games will be hard but I look forward to giving good games", and so will every other Korean who doesn't want a 20-page complaint thread on TL, and then we can go back to complaining that all the Koreans are robots and show no personality.
Yeah, seriously. People don't know what they want. They don't want politeness (they think its boring/robotic), they don't want honesty (he's elitist! BM! rawr).
People should honestly be ashamed of the way they reacted, to the point where Monster had to apologize for saying what? That foreign tournaments are easier than GSL?
Morrow said literally the same thing in this very thread, and we don't see any outrage about that. Maybe because he is white?
Foreign pride has gone too far. Sometimes the TL and Reddit community reminds me of the worst aspects of US football fans.
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This just in:
The hardest tournament in the world is harder than all of the rest of the tournaments.
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GSL = 100x harder than dreamhack
He places 3rd at dreamhack.
Thus he should place 300th at GSL.
GLS are about 150-200 players in Code S + Code A + Qualifiers/Code B
So Monster, unless you finish 2nd or better at the next dreamhack, please refrain from trying to qualify for GSL. Thank you.
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I agree it's obviously a hyperbole, that doesn't mean it sounds good though. Obviously people get upset due to it, but the true meaning might've gotten lost in translation for what I know...
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On April 28 2012 18:55 Thrombozyt wrote:
GSL = 100x harder than dreamhack
He places 3rd at dreamhack.
Thus he should place 300th at GSL.
GLS are about 150-200 players in Code S + Code A + Qualifiers/Code B
So Monster, unless you finish 2nd or better at the next dreamhack, please refrain from trying to qualify for GSL. Thank you.
There's no arguing with that logic, clearly.
Seriously though, what the fuck dude?
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On April 28 2012 18:55 Thrombozyt wrote:
GSL = 100x harder than dreamhack
He places 3rd at dreamhack.
Thus he should place 300th at GSL.
GLS are about 150-200 players in Code S + Code A + Qualifiers/Code B
So Monster, unless you finish 2nd or better at the next dreamhack, please refrain from trying to qualify for GSL. Thank you.
1. You are using math in a very stupid way.
2. Code S starts with 32 players, Code A with 27 players, and Code B has a cap of 576 players and using this as a source, I would assume that atleast half of it gets filled, totaling way over 300 players.
Monster finished at 168th in last code B, meaning this GSL will have 226 players above him in the rankings.
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On April 28 2012 18:55 Thrombozyt wrote:
GSL = 100x harder than dreamhack
He places 3rd at dreamhack.
Thus he should place 300th at GSL.
GLS are about 150-200 players in Code S + Code A + Qualifiers/Code B
So Monster, unless you finish 2nd or better at the next dreamhack, please refrain from trying to qualify for GSL. Thank you.
hyperbole => http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hyperbole
hy·per·bo·le (h-pûrb-l)
n.
A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.
an obvious and intentional exaggeration.
an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “She’s as big as a house.”
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He is right, who always win big foreigner tournaments are koreans than play gsl code s/a with some exception like in this dreamhack.
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How can you say that's hyperbole when he concludes that Monster needs to get at least 2nd at the next dreamhack?
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I thought this is common knowledge.
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On April 27 2012 04:56 m0s1n0 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 04:49 Ichabod wrote:
Btw, your image is broken, it requires a fragster.de password to access; maybe try rehosting it?
Thanks for the interview Fixed as well. Next time is should stop beeing tired while posting^^
It is alway a great idea to suddenly decide that you're not tired anymore and then contitnue posting
it's like Barney Stinson stops being sad/sick.
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Didn't he say he had an 80% win-chance vs. Thorzain? :-D
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On April 28 2012 20:35 ShrieK wrote:
How can you say that's hyperbole when he concludes that Monster needs to get at least 2nd at the next dreamhack?
I can say that it's hyperbole when I'm talking about this "GSL = 100x harder than dreamhack"-part in which he bases his poor attempt at math on.
Could just be me, but I somehow doubt that Monster spent his time between the matches calculating the exact difficulty difference between GSL & DreamHack and calculating it to be an exact 100. Not 99,999999 times more difficult or 100,1 but exactly 100.
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On April 28 2012 17:34 ItsMeDomLee wrote:
I like how people talk about Naniwa like he's a mainstay of Code S. He has been playing very well this season but last year he was 0-10 and couldn't even keep a Code A spot.
"Numbers are about the past, not the present" -MouzThorZaiN
Last year Parting,Maru,Squirtle were in Code B for the most time, while Ensnare was in Code S . Last year TOP was one of the strongest terrans in korea. Early last year Stephano wasn´t a top-10 foreigner. I don´t think last year is that important.
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On April 28 2012 21:01 Kuni wrote:
Didn't he say he had an 80% win-chance vs. Thorzain? :-D
He did. He also seemed pretty full of himself when i saw him strutting around at Dreamhack Stockholm. But well, no reason to hate. He's still a good player!
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On April 27 2012 04:46 zyzq wrote:
Don't know about the skill level part, but GSL definitely requires more mental toughness.
How? You get more time to prepare and the audience is like 100 times smaller.
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On April 28 2012 21:01 Kuni wrote:
Didn't he say he had an 80% win-chance vs. Thorzain? :-D
Why do people get so hung up on the 80%? It's not like a sample size of 1 series is gonna allow you to judge whether he really had an 80% chance to win the series.
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On April 29 2012 00:17 act.hero wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 04:46 zyzq wrote:
Don't know about the skill level part, but GSL definitely requires more mental toughness. How? You get more time to prepare and the audience is like 100 times smaller.
That goes both ways. Your opponent also has more time to prepare for you. Playing a game against an opponent that knows your own style better then you do can be very unnerving, and it requires a very disciplined mind to not let that affect you. Also, while the live audience is smaller, GSL is still seen as the most prestigious tournament and people will base your overall skill as a player according to how highly you've placed in one.
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gsl is the hardest, can't argue that. He worded it pretty poorly or maybe a mistranslation or something. still don't think he should have apologized if thats really him. I like korean players saying whats really on their mind instead of the usual scripted answers they give.
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Monster is apologising for nothing.
1) x100 in korean is understood as "tons harder". Same saying.
2) He's the professional, and if I were him, I wouldn't care what TL thought. He's the professional, and it's his opinion, even if he genuinely meant 100 times harder. I've seen other pros, and don't seem to disagree that it is x100 harder.
3) So many retarded maths posts here... just don't.
I for one hope Monster goes onto win something - he is obviously good enough for MVP to send him out - and I'm positive they must know a thing or two about sc2.
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On April 28 2012 21:14 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 17:34 ItsMeDomLee wrote:
I like how people talk about Naniwa like he's a mainstay of Code S. He has been playing very well this season but last year he was 0-10 and couldn't even keep a Code A spot. "Numbers are about the past, not the present" -MouzThorZaiN
I always knew Thorzain was a pretty smart guy, but I'm delighted that somebody relevant finally said this. This quote should be pasted on top of every LR thread. It just might reduce the number of statistics experts arguing about player skill. -_-
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On April 28 2012 04:51 MVPMonster wrote:
hi guys my think wrong.. very very sorry
i`m Than my think Easily ro 8 and i`m not going code s So i thought
but thorzain lose
and my think wrong...
this is not my intention....
I can't write English...
sry.. im regret...
Takes a man to apologize, although I don't think it was necessary. I hope Monster does well in the future!
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such drama for nothing, gsl is hard, dreamhack easier.
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well he's somewhat right about gsl for sure
but.. *sad but true here*
+ Show Spoiler +his face looks soooooo stupid
User was temp banned for this post.
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I love this guy because of his confidence.
Also gsl is much harder than any other foreigner tournament how is that even in question here?
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Woah, no homo, but he looks really hot.
Maybe another Nada?
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Too bad monster got this kind of reaction, I bet he won't be giving many interviews in the future.
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EPT
