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Monster: "Foreign tournaments 100 easier than GSL" - Page 11

Forum Index > SC2 General
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danbel1005
Profile Joined February 2008
United States1319 Posts
April 26 2012 23:40 GMT
#201
On April 27 2012 04:48 Otolia wrote:
Very confident for someone who was very lucky to win against Nerchio ...


Amen.

I dont like his words for the most part, might be the truth till some extent but still, feeling excessively proud of himself just makes him a fool if u get what i mean.
"EE HAN TIMING" Jaedong vs Stork [22 December, 2007] 2set @ Finals EVER OSL.
Legatus
Profile Joined August 2010
65 Posts
April 26 2012 23:42 GMT
#202
On April 27 2012 08:37 Azarkon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2012 07:47 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:
On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...

but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_-


And it's great.


No, it isn't.


People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?


No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing.


They are stomping foreigners though. A Korean has won every single Premier Tournament since October with the lone exception of Dreamhack (which featured a very weak Korean lineup and an overwhelming number of foreigners compared with Koreans).

That's six months of Koreans winning everything.

Obviously foreigners are able to win games some of the time, Koreans aren't so much better they never lose but they're better on average, a lot better and have probably won 80-90% of the prize money from Premier Tournaments in 2012 (I'm estimating, if someone wants to work it out and prove me wrong feel free). Which is pretty damn dominant. Not only do Koreans have the best players, they also have unbelievable depth. Basically every Korean on a pro team can beat even the absolute best foreigners (lol Inori) but you can count of one hand the foreigners who do that with even a tiny bit of regularity and even then none have shown enough consistency to beat enough to actually win a major tournament.

And to make things even more bleak for foreigners, Korea just doubled their talent pool and are going to be not only more skilled, but richer too now pro league is going Sc2.


Player A wiping the floor with Player B says to me that Player A is so ahead of Player B that the game is a joke. That's never been my impression of foreigner vs. Korean matches in SC 2. Upsets happen, foreigners take games, and the top foreigners take several matches in a row. Going back to IPL, which had a stacked Korean line-up, HuK, Scarlett, Illusion, SaSe, Ret, and of course Stephano were all able to fight their way through Code A and Code S Koreans. That's not a list of the best foreigners in the world - that list gets a lot longer.

IdrA vs. Korean Protoss is not the state of the scene. Dimaga played a great match vs. HerO in NASL. Ret beat JYP in EGMC. Nerchio and Stephano have taken games off of Nestea, while Haypro and Demuslim have taken a series. Thorzain is returning to form with a 3-1 win vs. Polt and Violet, and with Lucifron coming back to SC 2 that's another foreigner Terran with the ability to upset the best. Underrated foreigners are upsetting Korean pros in each tournament, and that is what gives the scene its vibrancy.

I am a doom and gloomer when it comes to foreigner SC 2, but cheering for foreigners in SC 2, I've never felt that foreigner players are completely outclassed. Yeah, they're rough on the edges, and they go full foreigner at the worst times, but I've never felt that they have no shot at victory. The phrase full foreigner is an example of this - to full foreigner a match, you have to be ahead in the first place.

I agree with your post and also "going full foreigner" is a hilarious expression. I'll have to steal it.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
April 26 2012 23:43 GMT
#203
his pic in the OP, is a perfect picture to show his self confidence.


I like his answers too, i like arrogant players.
liftlift > tsm
Aeroplaneoverthesea
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom1977 Posts
April 26 2012 23:43 GMT
#204
On April 27 2012 08:17 sc14s wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2012 07:47 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:
On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...

but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_-


And it's great.


No, it isn't.


People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?


No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing.


They are stomping foreigners though. A Korean has won every single Premier Tournament since October with the lone exception of Dreamhack (which featured a very weak Korean lineup and an overwhelming number of foreigners compared with Koreans).

That's six months of Koreans winning everything.

Obviously foreigners are able to win games some of the time, Koreans aren't so much better they never lose but they're better on average, a lot better and have probably won 80-90% of the prize money from Premier Tournaments in 2012 (I'm estimating, if someone wants to work it out and prove me wrong feel free). Which is pretty damn dominant. Not only do Koreans have the best players, they also have unbelievable depth. Basically every Korean on a pro team can beat even the absolute best foreigners (lol Inori) but you can count of one hand the foreigners who do that with even a tiny bit of regularity and even then none have shown enough consistency to beat enough to actually win a major tournament.

And to make things even more bleak for foreigners, Korea just doubled their talent pool and are going to be not only more skilled, but richer too now pro league is going Sc2.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/leagues/2027_MLG_Orlando_2011 ..? Huk won an mlg too as well as http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/leagues/2026_IPL_Season_3 stephano won ipl3 .. both had a decent amount of koreans

not that i will disagree that koreans are becoming more obviously dominant.. but you are selling foreigners a little short

personally i think that alot of the startup pro teams and more iffy teams will fall by the wayside as the foreign scene is a little inflated with teams / tournaments / pro+semi pro players and after it collapses in a little it will be better for having 4-5 strong teams that may not be on the level of say skt1 but wont be terribad.

on a random sidenote dragonforce : soldiers of the wasteland just came on pandora \m/


I meant that no foreigners has won a premier tournament (with the exception of Dreamhack) in 2012.
Aeroplaneoverthesea
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom1977 Posts
April 26 2012 23:45 GMT
#205
On April 27 2012 08:37 Azarkon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2012 07:47 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:
On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...

but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_-


And it's great.


No, it isn't.


People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?


No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing.


They are stomping foreigners though. A Korean has won every single Premier Tournament since October with the lone exception of Dreamhack (which featured a very weak Korean lineup and an overwhelming number of foreigners compared with Koreans).

That's six months of Koreans winning everything.

Obviously foreigners are able to win games some of the time, Koreans aren't so much better they never lose but they're better on average, a lot better and have probably won 80-90% of the prize money from Premier Tournaments in 2012 (I'm estimating, if someone wants to work it out and prove me wrong feel free). Which is pretty damn dominant. Not only do Koreans have the best players, they also have unbelievable depth. Basically every Korean on a pro team can beat even the absolute best foreigners (lol Inori) but you can count of one hand the foreigners who do that with even a tiny bit of regularity and even then none have shown enough consistency to beat enough to actually win a major tournament.

And to make things even more bleak for foreigners, Korea just doubled their talent pool and are going to be not only more skilled, but richer too now pro league is going Sc2.


Player A wiping the floor with Player B says to me that Player A is so ahead of Player B that the game is a joke. That's never been my impression of foreigner vs. Korean matches in SC 2. Upsets happen, foreigners take games, and the top foreigners take several matches in a row. Going back to IPL, which had a stacked Korean line-up, HuK, Scarlett, Illusion, SaSe, Ret, and of course Stephano were all able to fight their way through Code A and Code S Koreans. That's not a list of the best foreigners in the world - that list gets a lot longer.

IdrA vs. Korean Protoss is not the state of the scene. Dimaga played a great match vs. HerO in NASL. Ret beat JYP in EGMC. Nerchio and Stephano have taken games off of Nestea, while Haypro and Demuslim have taken a series. Thorzain is returning to form with a 3-1 win vs. Polt and Violet, and with Lucifron coming back to SC 2 that's another foreigner Terran with the ability to upset the best. Underrated foreigners are upsetting Korean pros in each tournament, and that is what gives the scene its vibrancy.

I am a doom and gloomer when it comes to foreigner SC 2, but cheering for foreigners in SC 2, I've never felt that foreigner players are completely outclassed. Yeah, they're rough on the edges, and they go full foreigner at the worst times, but I've never felt that they have no shot at victory. The phrase full foreigner is an example of this - to full foreigner a match, you have to be ahead in the first place.


We're just debating semantics now. My definition of wiping the floor is Koreans taking home the overwhelming majority of the money, yours is Koreans seriel bum raping foreigners with no lube for a weekend before flying back to Korea.
LaM
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States1321 Posts
April 26 2012 23:48 GMT
#206
Pretty cocky for a nobody who played at an event with only a few top foreigners, including a guy who beat the shit out of him (Thorzain).
Anything is Possible
Advocado
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Denmark994 Posts
April 26 2012 23:49 GMT
#207
Considering how few top players there were at dreamhack actually makes Monster looks like a genius. Some of the early groups were pitting code a/s material against not very good players.
http://www.twitch.tv/advocadosc2
babybell
Profile Joined June 2011
776 Posts
April 26 2012 23:51 GMT
#208
What a likeable guy. Stuff like that should be told after you 3-0 your opponent in the finals.
SkimGuy
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada709 Posts
April 26 2012 23:52 GMT
#209
Don't worry guys, this whole foreigner vs Korean debate won't matter when Brood war pros switch over xd
Azarkon
Profile Joined January 2010
United States21060 Posts
April 26 2012 23:55 GMT
#210
On April 27 2012 08:45 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2012 08:37 Azarkon wrote:
On April 27 2012 07:47 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:
On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...

but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_-


And it's great.


No, it isn't.


People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?


No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing.


They are stomping foreigners though. A Korean has won every single Premier Tournament since October with the lone exception of Dreamhack (which featured a very weak Korean lineup and an overwhelming number of foreigners compared with Koreans).

That's six months of Koreans winning everything.

Obviously foreigners are able to win games some of the time, Koreans aren't so much better they never lose but they're better on average, a lot better and have probably won 80-90% of the prize money from Premier Tournaments in 2012 (I'm estimating, if someone wants to work it out and prove me wrong feel free). Which is pretty damn dominant. Not only do Koreans have the best players, they also have unbelievable depth. Basically every Korean on a pro team can beat even the absolute best foreigners (lol Inori) but you can count of one hand the foreigners who do that with even a tiny bit of regularity and even then none have shown enough consistency to beat enough to actually win a major tournament.

And to make things even more bleak for foreigners, Korea just doubled their talent pool and are going to be not only more skilled, but richer too now pro league is going Sc2.


Player A wiping the floor with Player B says to me that Player A is so ahead of Player B that the game is a joke. That's never been my impression of foreigner vs. Korean matches in SC 2. Upsets happen, foreigners take games, and the top foreigners take several matches in a row. Going back to IPL, which had a stacked Korean line-up, HuK, Scarlett, Illusion, SaSe, Ret, and of course Stephano were all able to fight their way through Code A and Code S Koreans. That's not a list of the best foreigners in the world - that list gets a lot longer.

IdrA vs. Korean Protoss is not the state of the scene. Dimaga played a great match vs. HerO in NASL. Ret beat JYP in EGMC. Nerchio and Stephano have taken games off of Nestea, while Haypro and Demuslim have taken a series. Thorzain is returning to form with a 3-1 win vs. Polt and Violet, and with Lucifron coming back to SC 2 that's another foreigner Terran with the ability to upset the best. Underrated foreigners are upsetting Korean pros in each tournament, and that is what gives the scene its vibrancy.

I am a doom and gloomer when it comes to foreigner SC 2, but cheering for foreigners in SC 2, I've never felt that foreigner players are completely outclassed. Yeah, they're rough on the edges, and they go full foreigner at the worst times, but I've never felt that they have no shot at victory. The phrase full foreigner is an example of this - to full foreigner a match, you have to be ahead in the first place.


We're just debating semantics now. My definition of wiping the floor is Koreans taking home the overwhelming majority of the money, yours is Koreans seriel bum raping foreigners with no lube for a weekend before flying back to Korea.


But that's what I'm talking about - people want to see foreigners vs. Koreans because they believe foreigners have the ability to win games and pull upsets.
pPingu
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland2892 Posts
April 27 2012 00:05 GMT
#211
Are people really angry because he said that GSL was the hardest sc2 tournament?

And how is he cocky? Because he thought he was going to win?...
Ktk
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Korea (South)753 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 00:09:31
April 27 2012 00:09 GMT
#212
On April 27 2012 08:48 LaM wrote:
Pretty cocky for a nobody who played at an event with only a few top foreigners, including a guy who beat the shit out of him (Thorzain).


What if Thorzain was Code S?
Probably not so cocky, then. Pros have said similar things before.
6BiT
Profile Joined December 2011
513 Posts
April 27 2012 00:18 GMT
#213
On April 27 2012 07:00 MorroW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2012 06:48 Amityville wrote:
im from korea, korea we have gsl, gsl 100x times better skill than awful foreigners. All this coming from a guy that has won nothing. What a complete clown this guy is.

while it might seem abit off or weird that a somewhat unaccomplished player goes out to say something like this, from personal experience i have to agree with him

when i played up and down i went 1-3 in my group, then 0-2 in the code a and the time i was in korea before then was gsl world invitational where i lost all my games aswell (i think it was 0-1 in the "clanwar" and 0-2 in the bracket).

from watching gsl on a daily basis its really insane how much they are improving all the time and how literally everyone is sick good. our known champions falling to code a or even code b left and right and constant rotation on whos considered among the top just goes to show the amount of very good players they have

i got to top16 at dreamhack without preparing for my opponents or even practicing the new dreamhack maps, its not a good result but still. to come top16 to code S is a sick achievement and it is wayyy wayyyyyyyy harder.
i prepared vs maruprime and studied his style closely the best i could, and practiced vs only terran about 3 weeks prior to my match. then when i had to play against him i lost 0-2 got my face absolutely stomped. you can take huk and naniwa as example too, who lost miserably the first period aswell, only after a few months were they able to step up their game enough while prior to that were strong enough to be favorites of foreigner events

so ye just from my own personal experience and my outlooks as a spectator watching mlg, dreamhack and gsl i think gsl is about 100 times harder lol.

trust me there are so many good players you have never even seen in gsl that are trying each month to qualify, players who practice just as much as the ones in code S and are almost as good


DING! There it is!

A player who has actually travelled to Korea to play and is probably the best person in this thread to make a comparison. So the people who got butthurt by some of Monsters comments in the interview can perhaps stop being butthurt now

Also you should probably take into consideration that this was a Korean doing an english interview on a german website, so I wouldn't be suprised if the wording is a little off and thats why some of his comments sound a little blunt lol.

One thing that would be interesting though would be a live tournament like this (with an open bracket) in Korea..
stuff & things
Killerkrack
Profile Joined August 2010
664 Posts
April 27 2012 00:24 GMT
#214
I can understand him saying that about the latest dreamhack considering the competition there was almost non existent compared to the recent MLG and IPL.
lisward
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Singapore959 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 00:32:35
April 27 2012 00:31 GMT
#215
His opinions would hold more weight if he were a better player, he's just outright offensive, regarding Nani.
Opinions are like phasers -- everybody ought to have one
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 00:36:50
April 27 2012 00:36 GMT
#216
On April 27 2012 09:31 lisward wrote:
His opinions would hold more weight if he were a better player, he's just outright offensive, regarding Nani.

shame on him for telling the truth. Naniwa's PvZ is his worst matchup by far.

All: 409-235 (63.51%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L W W W L W L L L L | View Games
vT: 174-89 (66.16%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L L W L L L L W W W | View Games
vZ: 109-80 (57.67%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W L L W W L L L L | View Games
vP: 126-66 (65.63%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L W L L W W W L W | View Games
rOse_PedaL
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Korea (South)450 Posts
April 27 2012 00:37 GMT
#217
I remember MvPMonster
He was ST_Monster back then when he got killed by MKP in GSL Open 2
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ MKP HWAITING ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-27 00:40:28
April 27 2012 00:40 GMT
#218
And that's why GSL is the best tournament in the world. Props to Monster for not downplaying the difference in difficulty.
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
Psychobabas
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
2531 Posts
April 27 2012 00:41 GMT
#219
Well good luck getting any sort of fans Monster. lol

I wonder if anybody will know him in a week
AKomrade
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States582 Posts
April 27 2012 00:45 GMT
#220
I would've killed to see a 4th place math vs Ret. Would've been stomped, just like his matches vs. Thorzain. Hope to see him in more foreign events.

While hes right that the GSL is the hardest tournament, he's too arrogant given his "results". Some wins vs a couple foreigners does not a champion make.
ALL HAIL THE KING IN THE NORTH! HAIL! HAIL!
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