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On April 27 2012 07:30 xrapture wrote:
Code S is by far the hardest tournament in the world. When IPL, or MLG are considered strong it's because there are many Code S players.
Fact is, any foreigner in the tournament will be worse than every player in Code S. There's also a reason a foreigner has never qualified for Code A-- because most foreigners aren't even Code A level.
the upcoming gsl has many mlg finalists, gsl is only hard because it has so many mlg players!!!!
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On April 27 2012 07:30 xrapture wrote:
There's also a reason a foreigner has never qualified for Code A-- because most foreigners aren't even Code A level.
Should have started with this sentence so I wouldnt have wasted my time reading the rest.
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meh, probably a bit of an exaggeration not getting too butthurt over it, seems like an okay guy. Still, it's just kind of funny that it's coming from him. I've never been a fan of Monster because his play with zerg just makes me hurt. He seems to have good mechanics but he's just so sloppy and always overcommits while staying on lings for too long, and makes silly decisions.
Doesn't really have the decisiveness with his aggression like July, nowhere near the intelligence of Nestea, nor the finesse with his mechanics like DRG and Leenock have. He has beaten some notable terrans recently, and once knocked a slumping MC out of the gsl, but that's about all the credit I can give him. So yea, pretty average code A zerg to be being that cocky. Would have no problem if it were Polt or Genius saying this, at least they've actually gone far. Oh, and I believe this is his first foreign tournament, so yea...
Guess this was before Thorzain gave him the boots :D
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I wouldn't read to much into this guys math. He said he had an 80% chance of beating Thorzain and we all know how that turned out. haha.
Im sure they seem easier(which they probably are somewhat) but he is comparing an open tournament to gsl code a/s.
He could run into low masters people deep into the group stage with the dreamhack model. Also he has only been to this one tournament. So the statement he made about the foreign tournaments doesnt really hold up well.
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Why is there so much fuss? This has been common knowledge forever.
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On April 27 2012 05:42 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:40 Seldentar wrote:On April 27 2012 05:33 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 05:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 05:29 ssg wrote:
I could respect this statement from a well traveled Korean (ie MC) or even a tenured GSL veteran. But Monster? LOL The fact that a guy like Monster who isn't even Code A level in Korea can take 3rd at a 'Premier' foreign tournament ahead of a lot of mainstays of the foreign scene without even playing well demonstrates how right he is, at least about this Dreamhack which had the weakest player pool we've ever had at a Premier Event. Turn that logic around - Naniwa, a Code S Ro8 player, didn't make it out of the group stages at Dreamhack. Hence the interviewer challenging him with Naniwa right after. Did not Monster explain why Naniwa didn't make it out of the group stages? Because his weakeast matchup atm is PvZ since he hasn't been practicing it at all the last couple of months... so your logic doesn't work in reverse. If Naniwa had been eliminated by P or T then you would've had a point, however. Let's turn this right back around then. How can anyone be Code S "class" if one third of their potential matchups mean they die to Code B- players. Code S means very little then. Similarly, Polt is currently in Code S, isn't he?
No Polt is not currently in Code S, and Naniwa was seeded
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"Foreign tournaments 100 easier than GSL"
You don't say?
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On April 27 2012 07:34 SupLilSon wrote:
Why is there so much fuss? This has been common knowledge forever.
I'll echo this sentiment.
Even Naniwa said he's the worst player in Code S....
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On April 27 2012 06:32 bmml wrote:
Also since when can you not avoid meeting good players in GSL? They have a group drawing for a reason.
You can avoid the very best players(like top 10) but you can't avoid good players or even great players.
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On April 27 2012 06:48 Amityville wrote:
im from korea, korea we have gsl, gsl 100x times better skill than awful foreigners. All this coming from a guy that has won nothing. What a complete clown this guy is.
What is this logic people are using? HE SUCKS YET STILL MADE TOP 4! If anything that proves his point even more.
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On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_- And it's great. No, it isn't. Show nested quote +
People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?
No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing.
They are stomping foreigners though. A Korean has won every single Premier Tournament since October with the lone exception of Dreamhack (which featured a very weak Korean lineup and an overwhelming number of foreigners compared with Koreans).
That's six months of Koreans winning everything.
Obviously foreigners are able to win games some of the time, Koreans aren't so much better they never lose but they're better on average, a lot better and have probably won 80-90% of the prize money from Premier Tournaments in 2012 (I'm estimating, if someone wants to work it out and prove me wrong feel free). Which is pretty damn dominant. Not only do Koreans have the best players, they also have unbelievable depth. Basically every Korean on a pro team can beat even the absolute best foreigners (lol Inori) but you can count of one hand the foreigners who do that with even a tiny bit of regularity and even then none have shown enough consistency to beat enough to actually win a major tournament.
And to make things even more bleak for foreigners, Korea just doubled their talent pool and are going to be not only more skilled, but richer too now pro league is going Sc2.
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Looked like shit the only games I saw of him vs Nerchio and Thorzain. Def not rooting for him anytime soon. Ye 100x harder my ass, better back your words up, if you make a statement like that.
Also dont forget that a lot of top foreigners were also missing. Steph, Idra, Kas, Feast, Beasty, and so on. People always only comment that the koreans sucked ...
Polt and Genius are def Top Tier.
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On April 27 2012 04:46 zyzq wrote:
Don't know about the skill level part, but GSL definitely requires more mental toughness.
what? its the opposite, 3 day marathon compared to a set of games every 1-2 weeks?
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On April 27 2012 07:47 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_- And it's great. No, it isn't.
People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?
No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing. They are stomping foreigners though. A Korean has won every single Premier Tournament since October with the lone exception of Dreamhack (which featured a very weak Korean lineup and an overwhelming number of foreigners compared with Koreans). That's six months of Koreans winning everything. Obviously foreigners are able to win games some of the time, Koreans aren't so much better they never lose but they're better on average, a lot better and have probably won 80-90% of the prize money from Premier Tournaments in 2012 (I'm estimating, if someone wants to work it out and prove me wrong feel free). Which is pretty damn dominant. Not only do Koreans have the best players, they also have unbelievable depth. Basically every Korean on a pro team can beat even the absolute best foreigners (lol Inori) but you can count of one hand the foreigners who do that with even a tiny bit of regularity and even then none have shown enough consistency to beat enough to actually win a major tournament. And to make things even more bleak for foreigners, Korea just doubled their talent pool and are going to be not only more skilled, but richer too now pro league is going Sc2.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/leagues/2027_MLG_Orlando_2011 ..? Huk won an mlg too as well as http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/leagues/2026_IPL_Season_3 stephano won ipl3 .. both had a decent amount of koreans
not that i will disagree that koreans are becoming more obviously dominant.. but you are selling foreigners a little short 
personally i think that alot of the startup pro teams and more iffy teams will fall by the wayside as the foreign scene is a little inflated with teams / tournaments / pro+semi pro players and after it collapses in a little it will be better for having 4-5 strong teams that may not be on the level of say skt1 but wont be terribad.
on a random sidenote dragonforce : soldiers of the wasteland just came on pandora \m/
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On April 27 2012 06:48 Amityville wrote:
im from korea, korea we have gsl, gsl 100x times better skill than awful foreigners. All this coming from a guy that has won nothing. What a complete clown this guy is.
I laughed at this. What you just wrote just proves his point even more. He hasnt had a good run in GSL, yet he gets 4th place in DH. He said what he thinks and he is entitled to that and its common fact that GSL is the hardest tournament in the world atm. You just made yourself look silly.
No need to be butthurt about the 100x comparison between gsl and other tournaments. it's of course an exaggeration but the expression that he simply used)
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Isnt this the same guy, who didnt even knew what team he was playing for ? Complete Clown I have to agree.
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Not gonna lie, this guy comes across as a bit of an egotistical douche.
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If he compares dreamhack stockholm to GSL then yes, GSL is definately a loooot harder. But I don't think anyone should generalize this fact to all foreign tournaments
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On April 27 2012 07:41 xrapture wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 07:34 SupLilSon wrote:
Why is there so much fuss? This has been common knowledge forever. I'll echo this sentiment. Even Naniwa said he's the worst player in Code S....
No, Naniwa was just reporting his mentality while preparing for his second group stage in GSL, he said that he initially himself the worst player in code S Ro16. Of course, that's obviously false, seeing as how he topped his group. Way to completely misrepresent his words.
+ Show Spoiler [The interview passage] +I: So to continue on the unreal stuff, the next group play. That's when you beat Genius and Virus 2-0. When you went into this second group play did you have any more confidence?
N: Not really, I felt that out of the 16 that was left, I was the worst player. That's what I thought at least. And I wasn't surprised when I was picked first either. I thought to myself, alright Genius got second last GSL he's an amazing player, he has been in code S for two years now and it's not surprising that he picked me. When I was gonna play, all I had in my mind was which build to use while trying to stay calm, as well asking the Startale guys for some tips, I came up with a few ideas how I was going to play. And everything went exactly as I planned, it felt amazing!
[Edit] In general regarding the interview, it's also important to note that this was before semifinals took place. Monster probably has a bit of a warped view because of the extremely easy brackets he's had, even relative to the level of a purely foreigner bracket. He faced no top tier foreigners until ThorZain, who defeated him (here defining top their as a foreigner winning a premier event, aka Huk, Naniwa, Stephano, Ret). While he did face Nerchio, he barely edged out 2-1, and Nerchio, while solid, hasn't proven himself in the LAN scene since he doesn't have a top 3 showing at any premier tournament.
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On April 27 2012 07:47 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:54 Azarkon wrote:On April 27 2012 06:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 27 2012 06:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
-_- DH this time around was not so deep with koreans...
but honestly MLG has turned into GSL in US -_- And it's great. No, it isn't.
People don't seriously clamour for the old MLG's of laggy streams, no Tastosis and TT1 vs Jinro in the finals do they?
No, people want foreigners vs. Koreans, not Koreans vs. Koreans, and not foreigners vs. foreigners. This is why MLG's Spring Arena 2 is region limited, and David Ting from IPL said they're going to do the same thing. They are stomping foreigners though. A Korean has won every single Premier Tournament since October with the lone exception of Dreamhack (which featured a very weak Korean lineup and an overwhelming number of foreigners compared with Koreans). That's six months of Koreans winning everything. Obviously foreigners are able to win games some of the time, Koreans aren't so much better they never lose but they're better on average, a lot better and have probably won 80-90% of the prize money from Premier Tournaments in 2012 (I'm estimating, if someone wants to work it out and prove me wrong feel free). Which is pretty damn dominant. Not only do Koreans have the best players, they also have unbelievable depth. Basically every Korean on a pro team can beat even the absolute best foreigners (lol Inori) but you can count of one hand the foreigners who do that with even a tiny bit of regularity and even then none have shown enough consistency to beat enough to actually win a major tournament. And to make things even more bleak for foreigners, Korea just doubled their talent pool and are going to be not only more skilled, but richer too now pro league is going Sc2.
Player A wiping the floor with Player B says to me that Player A is so ahead of Player B that the game is a joke. That's never been my impression of foreigner vs. Korean matches in SC 2. Upsets happen, foreigners take games, and the top foreigners take several matches in a row. Going back to IPL, which had a stacked Korean line-up, HuK, Scarlett, Illusion, SaSe, Ret, and of course Stephano were all able to fight their way through Code A and Code S Koreans. That's not a list of the best foreigners in the world - that list gets a lot longer.
IdrA vs. Korean Protoss is not the state of the scene. Dimaga played a great match vs. HerO in NASL. Ret beat JYP in EGMC. Nerchio and Stephano have taken games off of Nestea, while Haypro and Demuslim have taken a series. Thorzain is returning to form with a 3-1 win vs. Polt and Violet, and with Lucifron coming back to SC 2 that's another foreigner Terran with the ability to upset the best. Underrated foreigners are upsetting Korean pros in each tournament, and that is what gives the scene its vibrancy.
I am a doom and gloomer when it comes to foreigner SC 2, but cheering for foreigners in SC 2, I've never felt that foreigner players are completely outclassed. Yeah, they're rough on the edges, and they go full foreigner at the worst times, but I've never felt that they have no shot at victory. The phrase full foreigner is an example of this - to full foreigner a match, you have to be ahead in the first place.
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EPT
