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Koreans want Foreigner to win

Forum Index > SC2 General
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GoSuChicken
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany1726 Posts
April 09 2012 23:26 GMT
#1
I dont know if this is worth a thread, but I think its quite interesting, that some koreans want to see foreigners to win tournaments like IPL4

Source: http://www.twitch.tv/iplliveu/b/314371855 Starting @ ~38 min both aLive and Ganzi state that they want Stephano to win/do well because hes a foreigner and there are so many koreans in foreign tourneys, earlier in this vod MMA stated the same starting @~21 min.

This is in my opinion very interesting since there is so much talking going on about how it sucks that foreigners arent able to compete with koreans. I see various reasons too why koreans now want foreigners to do well. One would obviously be that they're just being polite, since they're interviewed by foreigners.
Another reason, and that is the interesting one for me, is that they realize that foreigners cheer more for foreign players, and that they might stop paying attention to tournaments if there are only korean players flying to for example MLG and taking top 30.

What do you guys think, why do koreans want foreigners to do well?
Timurid
Profile Joined April 2011
Guyana (French)656 Posts
April 09 2012 23:28 GMT
#2
Tired of facing the same people lol.
ProxyKnoxy
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2576 Posts
April 09 2012 23:29 GMT
#3
Because they are the underdogs and it creates good storylines? Not that interesting or surprising really.
"Zealot try give mariners high five. Mariners not like high five and try hide and shoot zealot"
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10393 Posts
April 09 2012 23:30 GMT
#4
It's like a reverse Linsanity
GoSuChicken
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany1726 Posts
April 09 2012 23:32 GMT
#5
On April 10 2012 08:29 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
Because they are the underdogs and it creates good storylines? Not that interesting or surprising really.

I think its interesting, because there was some talk about koreans having their pride and therefore are trying to win everything.
Some people said that koreans would work together against foreigners and stuff like that...
Leftwing
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada229 Posts
April 09 2012 23:33 GMT
#6
Wouldn't it be ironic if Koreans dominate the scene for the next 2-3 years, and then all of a sudden the first bonjwa of SC2 happens to be a foreigner? Calling it now.
`Zapdos
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States935 Posts
April 09 2012 23:36 GMT
#7
On April 10 2012 08:33 Leftwing wrote:
Wouldn't it be ironic if Koreans dominate the scene for the next 2-3 years, and then all of a sudden the first bonjwa of SC2 happens to be a foreigner? Calling it now.


The way the game is set up there probably won't ever be an sc2 bonjwa and goddamnit i wish people would stop using the term
www.twitch.tv/thezapdos come watch me :]
Blade Fox
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States215 Posts
April 09 2012 23:37 GMT
#8
Well just ask yourself if you're a non-korean, "If a non-korean wins is it more imprinted on my mind than if another korean wins?"

The answer is most likely yes I remember Huk winning tournaments more than I do a korean winning a tournament. Or I remember Naniwa almost beating all the koreans at an MLG last year than I really cared about Leenock winning.

It generates more interest more competition is always funner than less for the competitive minded. I imagine if foreigners were dominating over koreans they'd say the same thing if you look at it that way.

Or I guess it could just be PR. Derp.
Blame it on my A.D.D
Archontas
Profile Joined September 2010
United States319 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-09 23:41:33
April 09 2012 23:39 GMT
#9
Lots more foreign tournaments in the scene than Korean ones, more foreigners competing at the highest levels and winning creates more interest, leading to more tournaments and sponsor-interest, leading to more opportunities for everyone.

It really is in everyone's best interests for the scene to grow globally rather than be focused on any group in particular.
If you ban me, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
WArped
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom4845 Posts
April 09 2012 23:40 GMT
#10
Stephano's a likable guy.

I'm sure just like us they want foreigners to do well because it makes for a global game, scene and competition. They left to join foreign teams themselves, they want the competition to be as fearce as possible for themselves to help them improve and as they are going to foreign tournaments now, they need guys like Stephano to win and other foreigners to challenge in championship brackets.
calgar
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States1277 Posts
April 09 2012 23:41 GMT
#11
On April 10 2012 08:36 `Zapdos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 08:33 Leftwing wrote:
Wouldn't it be ironic if Koreans dominate the scene for the next 2-3 years, and then all of a sudden the first bonjwa of SC2 happens to be a foreigner? Calling it now.


The way the game is set up there probably won't ever be an sc2 bonjwa and goddamnit i wish people would stop using the term
Oh come on, isn't it a little early in the game's life to be predicting that there won't ever be one? How long was it until one came around in BW - 3 years? We're seeing way better marine micro, splitting, and multitasking than we did 6-12 months ago. I would agree with you if the metagame was stagnant but I think there's at least a chance. There aren't any S class players (in their primes) playing SC2 anyways so there is a lot of talent potential if a switch did occur, not saying that it will or ever. bonjwa bonjwa

I think the idea of a foreign bonjwa is highly appealing though, and equally unlikely.
bokchoi
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Korea (South)9498 Posts
April 09 2012 23:41 GMT
#12
I think a lot of it has to do with sponsor interest. They've begun to realize the strength of foreign sponsors through SC2 (seeing foreigners in Korea, joining foreign teams, foreign events, etc.) and know that if SC2 became completely Korean again, there's no reason/interest for foreign sponsors. Foreign teams will move away from SC2, events will cater towards different audiences, etc. Dominance can be good/cool to see, but too much dominance makes the scene stale.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15513 Posts
April 10 2012 00:15 GMT
#13
Too bad their players don't. Naniwa and others have commented on how Koreans all band together and share replays to beat foreigners like Naniwa and other top players who are actually on their level. But with all of their working together, they are able to always beat foreigners just due to the fact that their replays are shared by practice partners they trusted.
UndoneJin
Profile Joined February 2011
United States438 Posts
April 10 2012 00:18 GMT
#14
On April 10 2012 08:30 BlackJack wrote:
It's like a reverse Linsanity

Hahaha so true...

Honestly, it's not suprising. This is how it should be, the Koreans dominate because they work harder and have a better training environment. The foreigners will have to work their asses off too if they want to compete. It legitimizes the e-Sport honestly.
I've been lost since the day I was born ----- You're gonna carry that weight
Hall0wed
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States8486 Posts
April 10 2012 00:19 GMT
#15
Koreans always say nice stuff about foreigners and say they are better than they really are just to be polite.

Nothing new.
♦ My Life for BESTie ♦ 류세라 = 배 ♦
Megaliskuu
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5123 Posts
April 10 2012 00:22 GMT
#16
Well if there is anyone who could do it, it'd be Stephano.
|BW>Everything|Add me on star2 KR server TheMuTaL.675 for practice games :)|NEX clan| https://www.dotabuff.com/players/183104694
Diks
Profile Joined January 2010
Belgium1880 Posts
April 10 2012 00:23 GMT
#17
It will finally create the illusion of a competition between korea and the rest of the world.
You don't prove how strong you are by kiling a mouse, you want a bear.
Surrealistic
Profile Joined September 2009
311 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 00:26:50
April 10 2012 00:26 GMT
#18
On April 10 2012 09:15 Mohdoo wrote:
Too bad their players don't. Naniwa and others have commented on how Koreans all band together and share replays to beat foreigners like Naniwa and other top players who are actually on their level. But with all of their working together, they are able to always beat foreigners just due to the fact that their replays are shared by practice partners they trusted.

Yeah but isn't Naniwa notoriously known to be unlikeable within Korean circles, unwilling to assimilate etc? That's probably more his fault with the "everyone is against me" attitude. I remember Thorzain was very happy and felt very accepted in Korea.

edit: assimilate, similate
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
April 10 2012 00:26 GMT
#19
i'm sure everyone wants to move away from the bw stigma (white people suck)
except whitera, he beat boxer *nod*
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
AgentChaos
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom4569 Posts
April 10 2012 00:27 GMT
#20
THEY LIED!!
IM & EG supporter
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
April 10 2012 00:28 GMT
#21
On April 10 2012 08:30 BlackJack wrote:
It's like a reverse Linsanity


Well played sir, well played
EienShinwa
Profile Joined May 2010
United States655 Posts
April 10 2012 00:33 GMT
#22
Maybe because they think that Stephano would be easier to beat rather than some of the players in the tourney. Or they are being polite.
I have a simple philosophy: Fill what's empty. Empty what's full. Scratch where it itches. Alice Roosevelt Longworth
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
April 10 2012 00:34 GMT
#23
On April 10 2012 09:19 Hall0wed wrote:
Koreans always say nice stuff about foreigners and say they are better than they really are just to be polite.

Nothing new.

except for Moon who says white people suck (or something to that effect).
DaCruise
Profile Joined July 2010
Denmark2457 Posts
April 10 2012 00:51 GMT
#24
They say it because they know that tournaments with korean players only will be interesting for......koreans and only koreans. Say goodbye to sponsers, viewers and all that jizz.
SaiStorm
Profile Joined October 2011
1 Post
April 10 2012 00:56 GMT
#25
Haha interesting how aLive said that he had no chance to win.. and look what happened!

On April 10 2012 08:26 GoSuChicken wrote:
earlier in this vod MMA stated the same starting @~21 min.

MMA vs Stephano Game 2.... yea...
RusHXceL
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1004 Posts
April 10 2012 00:57 GMT
#26
#reverseofmaybelin?
MethodSC
Profile Joined December 2010
United States928 Posts
April 10 2012 01:09 GMT
#27
Foreigners do win. They're called Koreans.
AxelTVx
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada916 Posts
April 10 2012 01:14 GMT
#28
On April 10 2012 10:09 MethodSC wrote:
Foreigners do win. They're called Koreans.


Aha, best quote in the thread... Technically they actually are the foreigners.
Axel 145 Masters Protoss
MightyAtom
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Korea (South)1897 Posts
April 10 2012 01:18 GMT
#29
Giyom and Elky were and still are beloved in Korea because Korean love skill more than anything else.
Administrator-I am the universe- Morihei Ueshiba
TuElite
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada2123 Posts
April 10 2012 01:22 GMT
#30
They want foreigners to do well to be matched up against them in the finals or in GSL for that easy win most likely.
Always Smile - Jung Nicole - Follow Nicole on Twitter @_911007 and me @TuElite
SamsLiST
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany184 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 01:28:23
April 10 2012 01:26 GMT
#31
they just know what happens when "foreigners" lose interest in that lost battle...

E: how much prize money Koreans took from international events so far? about 1.7 million? not including flights and regular salaries...
SCbiff
Profile Joined May 2010
110 Posts
April 10 2012 01:27 GMT
#32
Because they're people, just like us.

Because, although there is always all this "us versus them" talk in any cross-cultural discussion, a lot of people really don't hate other people because of where they're from.
Fawkes
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada1935 Posts
April 10 2012 01:27 GMT
#33
On April 10 2012 10:22 TuElite wrote:
They want foreigners to do well to be matched up against them in the finals or in GSL for that easy win most likely.


This doesn't even make sense. If a foreigner does better and is even capable of getting into the GSL, disregarding luck, that won't be an easy win. As he had to go through numerous OTHER koreans who are on equal or greater skill level in qualifiers/code A...unless he was seeded...then that's another story. Easy win is defined as the lucky Koreans who play against the seeded Foreigners who drop out in one go.
Taeyeon ~ Jennie ~ Seulgi ~ Irene @Fawkes711
kawoq
Profile Joined November 2005
Guatemala357 Posts
April 10 2012 01:38 GMT
#34
Koreans want to keep Foreigns tournaments going... so foreigns should win fomr time to time to keep the interest.
"It is not a shameful thing to be unable to reach the goal. It's becoming afraid and running away, even before considering the fact that the road is long and rough, that is truly cowardly." by - Lim Yo Hwan aka SlayerS_Boxer from "Crazy as me"
Fischbacher
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada666 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 01:45:19
April 10 2012 01:45 GMT
#35
Foreigners doing well is crutial for the survival of the SC2 scene as a whole. North American and Europeans doing well = more interest from Westeners = more sponsors = more money for the entire scene, including Korean players. There is a reason why HuK and Idra are payed better than most Koreans: foreign players, at equal skill, bring a lot more sponsor interest to the table than Korean players. So its in everyone's best interest for multiple foreigners to be competitive with the top Koreans.
Fealthas
Profile Joined May 2011
607 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 01:49:57
April 10 2012 01:49 GMT
#36
I think they are saying that to be nice.
DT-Toss
Profile Joined March 2012
Korea (South)59 Posts
April 10 2012 01:54 GMT
#37
no fucking chance.
Asian is better in gaming. Enuff' said.
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
April 10 2012 01:54 GMT
#38
I guess they must feel kinda bad to go to foreign tournaments and grab 80+% of the prize pool every time.
ॐ
Bigtony
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1606 Posts
April 10 2012 01:56 GMT
#39
If foreigners stay bad forever, the scene will die. There will be no $40,000 IPL4 for someone to win. There will be no 20k MLG, etc. Foreigners have to be good to keep interest alive. Although the foreign scene seems perfectly capable of killing itself with lack of support.
Push 2 Harder
Crackensan
Profile Joined August 2010
United States479 Posts
April 10 2012 01:56 GMT
#40
As a Korean, I can say they are saying this just to be polite. They see it as pride, national pride. They will do everything they can to keep foreigners from winning majors until the foreign teams band togeather like the Korean teams and take them out.

One man can't do it alone. Team rivalries are cool, and make for great drama, but in the end, it's still Korea vs. the World.

The World needs to get it's act togeather and do what the Koreans do; plan how to beat them.
Tasteless: "Well this strategy is made of balls"--Concerning Fruitdealer Vs. BoXeR
jjun212
Profile Joined December 2004
Canada2208 Posts
April 10 2012 01:57 GMT
#41
On April 10 2012 08:30 BlackJack wrote:
It's like a reverse Linsanity


looooooooooolll .. thats actually really funny XD
shaftofpleasure
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Korea (North)1375 Posts
April 10 2012 02:00 GMT
#42
I'll just leave this guy here....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillaume_Patry
It's either the holes of my nose are getting smaller or my fingers are getting bigger. /// Always Rooting for the Underdog. Hyuk/Sin/Jaehoon/Juni/Hyvva/Hoejja/Canata //// Hiding in thread somewhere where BW is still in it's pure form here on TL.
Maynarde
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia1286 Posts
April 10 2012 02:07 GMT
#43
On April 10 2012 11:00 shaftofpleasure wrote:
I'll just leave this guy here....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillaume_Patry


It would be sick to see him return for SC2 :D
CommentatorAustralian SC2 Caster | Twitter: @MaynardeSC2 | Twitch: twitch.tv/maynarde
Mirosuu
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
England283 Posts
April 10 2012 02:12 GMT
#44
On April 10 2012 09:56 SaiStorm wrote:
Haha interesting how aLive said that he had no chance to win.. and look what happened!

Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 08:26 GoSuChicken wrote:
earlier in this vod MMA stated the same starting @~21 min.

MMA vs Stephano Game 2.... yea...



MMA does that to top Korean Zergs, so don't take that game as indicative of the skill gap between Korea and Foreigners.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
NotSorry
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States6722 Posts
April 10 2012 02:13 GMT
#45
I'm not a racist, I wanna see the best players play and win regardless of where they are from.
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell
firehand101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3152 Posts
April 10 2012 02:26 GMT
#46
Honestly they just feel sorry for them . Foreigners had such high hopes, but they put in very little practice compared to their korean counterparts.....
The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
April 10 2012 02:33 GMT
#47
--- Nuked ---
SupLilSon
Profile Joined October 2011
Malaysia4123 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 02:44:04
April 10 2012 02:42 GMT
#48
I highly doubt they want a foreigner to win in order to boost sc2 popularity and in turn increase cash flow into their pockets...

They probably respect Stephano a lot for being one of the only foreigners who can really hang with the Koreans. Not saying hes as good as the Code S Titans but based on skill and talent alone he would easily find a home on any Korean team. People like to root for underdogs, Stephano is an underdog just by being a foreigner even though he is leagues above many other foreigners. I think they were just being human and Stephano seems like a likable person, they are probably friends of some sort.
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
April 10 2012 02:44 GMT
#49
Foreigner winning = more sponsors
Since the Koreans are mainly sponsored by international companies, they would want the scene to be exposed to retain those attention. Once Koreans would monopolize SC2, they would have no sponsors left as their domestic market are not exactly interested.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Chunhyang
Profile Joined December 2011
Bangladesh1389 Posts
April 10 2012 02:56 GMT
#50
If asked directly: "Do you want X to do well?"

Nobody's going to say: "No"
If you could reason with haters, there would be no haters. YGTMYFT
momonami5
Profile Joined July 2011
United States109 Posts
April 10 2012 16:10 GMT
#51
On April 10 2012 11:56 Chunhyang wrote:
If asked directly: "Do you want X to do well?"

Nobody's going to say: "No"


this people are acting like the media in this thread blowing something up for no reason it's just common 101 to wish your oppenents to do well. In any competition why would you tell a interviewer " hope they do bad so I can win easy or they are playing terrible"
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
April 10 2012 16:13 GMT
#52
Moved to Starcraft 2 forum.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
pred470r
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Bulgaria3265 Posts
April 10 2012 16:16 GMT
#53
Nobody wants for their opponents to play bad, because if they do and you win, you'll have to keep listening to everyone saying "If he played his A game he would have kicked your ass" etc.
Destroyr
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany299 Posts
April 10 2012 16:20 GMT
#54
Why are ppl wanting to see foreigners win if the can compete on a fairly high level they have to lose period. In terms of identification: Who cares about some white guy if his opponente is a korean progamer? I dont see why ppl can't identifie with lets say MVP, MC, Nestea, DRG, etc. even if you take a kid like MKP if you see him split marines that often you have to like his playstyle and all this stuff... i cant see that there are so much foreigners with "more" personality the only thing might be that they just dont speak english... but as it comes to interviews the most are rather dumb in tournaments i think this cant be an argument.
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
April 10 2012 16:32 GMT
#55
Rather then saying that the koreans are just being polite, I feel that koreans are alot more aware of how much the "story" behind tournaments matters. In korea the esports industry has grown up over many years, and almost all of the players are very aware of how fragile an arrangement it is. Look at the reaction to naniwas probe rush, or to saviour match fixing, in korea the players are very beholden to the fans, and focus on delivering good and entertianing games as well as winning, and anything they see as "bad" for esports they try and avoid. I remember a few years ago the (i believe) skt1 coach said something along the lines of it would be "the best for starcraft" if skt1 won the proleague tournament, and rather then just ignoreing/laughing at him as the foreigner community probably would if nazgul said that about liquid in some team league, the many korean players and netizens agreed with him.

I think the koreans are alot more aware of how important it is to their livelihood that the fans have a good experience watching, and while they obviously will always play to the best of their ability, they often wish for what will benefit the scene as a whole, rather then just themselves, and if foreigners winning events makes starcraft more viewable (and i heard alot of people say they were done watching ipl when stephano got kicked out) then the koreans wouldn't be sad if stephano won as opposed to a korean (other then the korean who lost obv )

As an aside, there have been many interviews in which koreans have said they wanted to play an interesting game for their fans, or apologised for using uninventive builds even when they win. Such as boxer creating brand new builds for every game in broodwar despite some strats being suboptimal, or other cases (which escape me right now.)

This is just my opinion but i think this attitude is true, at least in alot of the older broodwar players who experienced what esports was like before it had the foundation it does now, like boxer who spent the first few years of his career in a flat living of hardly any money.
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 16:35:01
April 10 2012 16:34 GMT
#56
On April 11 2012 01:10 momonami5 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 11:56 Chunhyang wrote:
If asked directly: "Do you want X to do well?"

Nobody's going to say: "No"


this people are acting like the media in this thread blowing something up for no reason it's just common 101 to wish your oppenents to do well. In any competition why would you tell a interviewer " hope they do bad so I can win easy or they are playing terrible"


but there is a difference between saying "do you want stephano to do well," and "who do you want to win the tournament." I don't think anyone will get angry at mkp for saying "i hope i do well" when asked what he hopes will happen at ipl. Its the fact that they picked stephano without him being suggested (as far as i can tell) that is the reason this thread even exists.
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
April 10 2012 16:34 GMT
#57
Maybe they're just being merciful
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
April 10 2012 16:38 GMT
#58
On April 10 2012 08:29 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
Because they are the underdogs and it creates good storylines? Not that interesting or surprising really.

Probably this, same reason everyone fell for Squirtle this weekend.
Yaki
Profile Joined April 2011
France4234 Posts
April 10 2012 16:47 GMT
#59
I'm tired of seeing so many threads about koreans/foreigners. As a fan of high level play, I wanna see the best players face each other and whether it's koreans or foreigners.
MC ■ MarineKing ■ LosirA ■ To someone who has lost after trying his best, no words from the winner can console him.
Legion710
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada423 Posts
April 10 2012 16:50 GMT
#60
Scarlett for first bonjwa
Tyrion Lannister
Marti
Profile Joined August 2011
552 Posts
April 10 2012 16:52 GMT
#61
On April 10 2012 08:41 calgar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 08:36 `Zapdos wrote:
On April 10 2012 08:33 Leftwing wrote:
Wouldn't it be ironic if Koreans dominate the scene for the next 2-3 years, and then all of a sudden the first bonjwa of SC2 happens to be a foreigner? Calling it now.


The way the game is set up there probably won't ever be an sc2 bonjwa and goddamnit i wish people would stop using the term
Oh come on, isn't it a little early in the game's life to be predicting that there won't ever be one? How long was it until one came around in BW - 3 years? We're seeing way better marine micro, splitting, and multitasking than we did 6-12 months ago. I would agree with you if the metagame was stagnant but I think there's at least a chance. There aren't any S class players (in their primes) playing SC2 anyways so there is a lot of talent potential if a switch did occur, not saying that it will or ever. bonjwa bonjwa

I think the idea of a foreign bonjwa is highly appealing though, and equally unlikely.



3 Years ? Ever heard of boxer ? 2000 - 2001
Also i higly doubt that we will ever see a player dominate that much in SC2. And i wish people would stop throwing that word around like that.
#adun giveafuck - - - "Did this guy just randomly finger me?" - Sayle
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 16:55:22
April 10 2012 16:53 GMT
#62
On April 10 2012 10:56 Bigtony wrote:
If foreigners stay bad forever, the scene will die. There will be no $40,000 IPL4 for someone to win. There will be no 20k MLG, etc. Foreigners have to be good to keep interest alive. Although the foreign scene seems perfectly capable of killing itself with lack of support.

This. Gotta keep foreign hopes alive else cash from foreign tounaments will dry up hurting Koreans bottom line.

If SC2 ever gets big in Korea like BW I don't think they'd give a crap about foreigner scene. And there definity won't be free GSL slots to appeal to western PPV.
MC for president
SinCitta
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany2127 Posts
April 10 2012 16:53 GMT
#63
Polt has benefited a lot from his rivalry with Stephano. He won the tournament with the highest prize money in SC2 before and nobody cared. Now he gets recognized much more.
Taiyoken
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada130 Posts
April 10 2012 16:54 GMT
#64
On April 11 2012 01:53 SinCitta wrote:
Polt has benefited a lot from his rivalry with Stephano. He won the tournament with the highest prize money in SC2 before and nobody cared. Now he gets recognized much more.


Yes, nobody cared...
FuRRyChoBo
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States218 Posts
April 10 2012 16:59 GMT
#65
I'm not sure it's fair to say nobody cared, but with the amount of Korean Terrans on the scene, it's easy to overlook him. There's no doubt Stephano's popularity shined a light on him.
HaXeR
Profile Joined December 2011
Czech Republic189 Posts
April 10 2012 17:08 GMT
#66
On April 10 2012 09:15 Mohdoo wrote:
Too bad their players don't. Naniwa and others have commented on how Koreans all band together and share replays to beat foreigners like Naniwa and other top players who are actually on their level. But with all of their working together, they are able to always beat foreigners just due to the fact that their replays are shared by practice partners they trusted.

U trust Naniwa and his crying? wow
Mithriel
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands2969 Posts
April 10 2012 17:11 GMT
#67
I want foreigners to win too, however not by beating other foreigners (that doesnt create a real story), but by beating top koreans.

Imagine these forums if a foreigner would've won this epically stacked IPL4, TL would EXPLODE
There is no shame in defeat so long as the spirit is unconquered. | Cheering for Maru, Innovation and MMA!
Iksf
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom444 Posts
April 10 2012 17:14 GMT
#68
On April 11 2012 01:54 Taiyoken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 01:53 SinCitta wrote:
Polt has benefited a lot from his rivalry with Stephano. He won the tournament with the highest prize money in SC2 before and nobody cared. Now he gets recognized much more.


Yes, nobody cared...


He is kinda right, if you ask a random SC2 player to list all the previous winners of GSL, if theyd forget one it would have been Polt.
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
April 10 2012 17:15 GMT
#69
On April 11 2012 02:14 Iksf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 01:54 Taiyoken wrote:
On April 11 2012 01:53 SinCitta wrote:
Polt has benefited a lot from his rivalry with Stephano. He won the tournament with the highest prize money in SC2 before and nobody cared. Now he gets recognized much more.


Yes, nobody cared...


He is kinda right, if you ask a random SC2 player to list all the previous winners of GSL, if theyd forget one it would have been Polt.

That's mostly due to the Super Tournament technically not being Code S.
las91
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States5080 Posts
April 10 2012 17:16 GMT
#70
I think they're just being polite. They want the best competition and they want to CRUSH that competition. Just my own thoughts on it though.
In Inca we trust
babybell
Profile Joined June 2011
776 Posts
April 10 2012 17:16 GMT
#71
On April 10 2012 08:36 `Zapdos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 08:33 Leftwing wrote:
Wouldn't it be ironic if Koreans dominate the scene for the next 2-3 years, and then all of a sudden the first bonjwa of SC2 happens to be a foreigner? Calling it now.


The way the game is set up there probably won't ever be an sc2 bonjwa and goddamnit i wish people would stop using the term


And why do think you should have a say in what people say and don't. Do you own the rights to the term?
Gladiator6
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden7024 Posts
April 10 2012 17:17 GMT
#72
On April 10 2012 08:32 GoSuChicken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 08:29 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
Because they are the underdogs and it creates good storylines? Not that interesting or surprising really.

I think its interesting, because there was some talk about koreans having their pride and therefore are trying to win everything.
Some people said that koreans would work together against foreigners and stuff like that...


It was from Naniwa who said that.
Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 17:37:53
April 10 2012 17:24 GMT
#73
yet another bitter thread made out of inferiority complex. I doubt the Koreans gave a fuck about the so called 'interest'
Eee
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden2712 Posts
April 10 2012 17:30 GMT
#74
It's called the underdog effect, its just more interesting to root for the underdog.
biamila
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada335 Posts
April 10 2012 17:31 GMT
#75
On April 11 2012 02:24 Arceus wrote:
yet another bitter thread made out inferiority complex. I doubt the Koreans gave a fuck about the so called 'interest'


When it nets them hundreds of thousands of dollars in tournament prize money, they probably give a lot of fucks.
onlimono
Profile Joined August 2011
Korea (South)14 Posts
April 10 2012 17:34 GMT
#76
i'm a korean who wants foreigners to win since it's more funnier. as a fan, i hope SC2 scene is getting bigger and more interesting with the competition of progamer in all over the world. most of koreans would agree with me and most of us want that foreign progamers are getting better.
D_K_night
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada615 Posts
April 10 2012 17:39 GMT
#77
On April 11 2012 02:17 eYeball wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 08:32 GoSuChicken wrote:
On April 10 2012 08:29 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
Because they are the underdogs and it creates good storylines? Not that interesting or surprising really.

I think its interesting, because there was some talk about koreans having their pride and therefore are trying to win everything.
Some people said that koreans would work together against foreigners and stuff like that...


It was from Naniwa who said that.


OK, but it would be very interesting to have a Korean pro come in and confirm/deny that. But it won't happen, they are too mannered.

Right now I think the short-term solution is just to just continue doing what we're already doing...have the regional-based qualifiers, then that'll guarantee foreigner faces during the televised games.

They can also have two different streams...Tastetosis casting the foreigner stream, and Wolf/Khaldor casting the korean stream. Then once all the eliminations are done, you'll have 1 foreigner vs 1 Korean and I think this neatly solves a lot of issues.
Canada
insanet
Profile Joined January 2010
Peru439 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 17:42:26
April 10 2012 17:40 GMT
#78
the koreans need to adopt a foreigner and train him as one of their own, i dont see any other way in which a foreigner is gonna be able to compete with top level koreans.
rift
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
1819 Posts
April 10 2012 17:41 GMT
#79
In an interview after commentating WCG Korea, (T)TheMarine [first great Terran] stated that he was shocked that two of the three Korean players got knocked out early, and that he hopes very much that Starcraft 2 can be a global esport, as Starcraft was essentially Korea-only.
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 17:42:26
April 10 2012 17:41 GMT
#80
On April 10 2012 08:26 GoSuChicken wrote:
Source: http://www.twitch.tv/iplliveu/b/314371855 Starting @ ~38 min both aLive and Ganzi state that they want Stephano to win/do well because hes a foreigner and there are so many koreans in foreign tourneys, earlier in this vod MMA stated the same starting @~21 min.
GhostKing (Byun) as well, you can add him to the OP.

Koreans - players and fans - have always shown a lot of support for foreigners, they are excited when foreigners can put up a fight. I think that's only natural.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
RageBot
Profile Joined November 2010
Israel1530 Posts
April 10 2012 17:57 GMT
#81
On April 11 2012 02:24 Arceus wrote:
yet another bitter thread made out of inferiority complex. I doubt the Koreans gave a fuck about the so called 'interest'


Yeah! Those stupid Koreans don't give a fuck wether the scene lives, so that they can have a salary for a long period of time by sustaning viewers, or it dies and they've essentialy wasted years of their lives on nothing!

Right? YEAH!!!
MLGTerraN
Profile Joined August 2011
Korea (South)5 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 18:03:42
April 10 2012 18:02 GMT
#82
hello? I am korean
I visited every korean community when ipl final day start
They all said "fuXXing kimchi man~" as one.
why?
Korean dont want korean exclusive too..
when korean won, they bring up what the hell about korean win the big tournament.
They dont be proud of korean winner.
They didnt celebration.They all said "Fuxxing kimchi man~" repeatly to themself
Some persons claimed that Code S must expand round of 36 then must invite top 4 foriener without exclude other koreans results
heys
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
April 10 2012 18:03 GMT
#83
On April 10 2012 08:36 `Zapdos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 08:33 Leftwing wrote:
Wouldn't it be ironic if Koreans dominate the scene for the next 2-3 years, and then all of a sudden the first bonjwa of SC2 happens to be a foreigner? Calling it now.


The way the game is set up there probably won't ever be an sc2 bonjwa and goddamnit i wish people would stop using the term


If Mvp would have been able to continue playing in 2012 like in 2011 I could very well see koreans calling him bonjwa.
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
QxGRockEr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States191 Posts
April 10 2012 18:05 GMT
#84
Naniwa probably wont like this post lol.
LighTeSports
ZenDeX
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Philippines2916 Posts
April 10 2012 18:06 GMT
#85
Koreans winning in every SC2 tournament gets.... stale. I don't know exactly but the crowd booing the IPL champ tells something.
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 18:08:20
April 10 2012 18:08 GMT
#86
If you remember the Blizzard cup they were all saying they hoped to see Stephano in the finals vs pretty much anyone. Stephano vs DRG, Stephano vs Mvp, Stephano vs Nestea... etc....
some also said they thought Naniwa would make it to the finals.
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
April 10 2012 18:12 GMT
#87
Well, foreigners will have to get better don´t they?

Although, why are so many people so convinced that a Korean domination will kill the foreign scene? I mean at least the top foreigners can compete unlike BW..... So it always creates this underdog story.
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
Moliere
Profile Joined February 2011
51 Posts
April 10 2012 18:15 GMT
#88
Somehow this doesn't feel like the first time this has happened - but the responses in this thread are pretty hot-blooded.
Xkalibert
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1404 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 18:20:57
April 10 2012 18:19 GMT
#89
A bit off topic but it's from vod posted in this OP
http://www.twitch.tv/iplliveu/b/314371855 at 1:37:00 MaruPrime mentions that he have pro gamer license, I was only aware that Sc:BW players have license for pro gaming after winning courage tournament, does he mean he won courage tournament or Sc2 Progamer have different pro gaming license?
Starp
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada199 Posts
April 10 2012 18:20 GMT
#90
...the Koreans are just being polite. Newbies to SC will get used to and appreciate that Koreans are in a league of their own. (In comparative baseball terms, Koreans are in the major league and the rest is in triple a league at best).
"I am wasting away here...click me" - a big Thor
bgx
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland6595 Posts
April 10 2012 18:24 GMT
#91
On April 11 2012 03:02 MLGTerraN wrote:
hello? I am korean
I visited every korean community when ipl final day start
They all said "fuXXing kimchi man~" as one.
why?
Korean dont want korean exclusive too..
when korean won, they bring up what the hell about korean win the big tournament.
They dont be proud of korean winner.
They didnt celebration.They all said "Fuxxing kimchi man~" repeatly to themself
Some persons claimed that Code S must expand round of 36 then must invite top 4 foriener without exclude other koreans results

haha nice :p

i guess seeing the same faces for 10 years can be boring
Stork[gm]
GeezerGeek
Profile Joined April 2011
United States15 Posts
April 10 2012 18:34 GMT
#92
It's all about the money. Foreign winners = global interest. Global interest = wealthy global sponsors. Global interest = more viewers = more advertising money.
zEnVy
Profile Joined June 2011
United States446 Posts
April 10 2012 18:46 GMT
#93
On April 11 2012 03:02 MLGTerraN wrote:
hello? I am korean
I visited every korean community when ipl final day start
They all said "fuXXing kimchi man~" as one.
why?
Korean dont want korean exclusive too..
when korean won, they bring up what the hell about korean win the big tournament.
They dont be proud of korean winner.
They didnt celebration.They all said "Fuxxing kimchi man~" repeatly to themself
Some persons claimed that Code S must expand round of 36 then must invite top 4 foriener without exclude other koreans results


Could you explain was "kimchi" is?
pt
Profile Joined November 2010
United States813 Posts
April 10 2012 18:55 GMT
#94
dont know why people flip out when they see the word "bonjwa" like its copyrighted or something.
EG-TL!
Vickhoff
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden5 Posts
April 10 2012 18:58 GMT
#95
Well i trust Naniwa on this one as top foreigner living in Korea

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=326888

A bit on what Naniwa thinks about this topic.
Quitters never win and winners never quit - Naniwa
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
April 10 2012 18:59 GMT
#96
On April 11 2012 03:46 zEnVy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 03:02 MLGTerraN wrote:
hello? I am korean
I visited every korean community when ipl final day start
They all said "fuXXing kimchi man~" as one.
why?
Korean dont want korean exclusive too..
when korean won, they bring up what the hell about korean win the big tournament.
They dont be proud of korean winner.
They didnt celebration.They all said "Fuxxing kimchi man~" repeatly to themself
Some persons claimed that Code S must expand round of 36 then must invite top 4 foriener without exclude other koreans results


Could you explain was "kimchi" is?


Very tasty, often spicy, pickled/fermented vegetable often Cabbage and Nappa. I enjoy it its a korean side dish

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimchi
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 19:16:17
April 10 2012 19:04 GMT
#97
On April 11 2012 02:57 RageBot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 02:24 Arceus wrote:
yet another bitter thread made out of inferiority complex. I doubt the Koreans gave a fuck about the so called 'interest'


Yeah! Those stupid Koreans don't give a fuck wether the scene lives, so that they can have a salary for a long period of time by sustaning viewers, or it dies and they've essentialy wasted years of their lives on nothing!

Right? YEAH!!!

come on man It's not like they are invited over to SOTG to give some deeply thoughtful insight about the scene. They were grabbed in the middle of nowhere to give some one word answers. They would probably say whatever cool things popping up in their mind in those situations. And like someone said above, It's naturally exciting if foreigners manage to put up a decent fight. America really enjoyed Dirk Nowitzki dominating the court and winning a ring, didnt they?

But hey, take it seriously if these stuffs ever make you bitter fans somehow better about the future of foreigners. Go ahead make another thread lulz
Lorch
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany3674 Posts
April 10 2012 19:13 GMT
#98
On April 10 2012 08:36 `Zapdos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 08:33 Leftwing wrote:
Wouldn't it be ironic if Koreans dominate the scene for the next 2-3 years, and then all of a sudden the first bonjwa of SC2 happens to be a foreigner? Calling it now.


The way the game is set up there probably won't ever be an sc2 bonjwa and goddamnit i wish people would stop using the term


We have had players with >90% winrates at some points and the only reason why they no longer have those is the fact that the game is still a lot more unexplored then most people want to admit and the metagame switches around atleast every other month.
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
April 10 2012 19:16 GMT
#99
On April 11 2012 03:46 zEnVy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 03:02 MLGTerraN wrote:
hello? I am korean
I visited every korean community when ipl final day start
They all said "fuXXing kimchi man~" as one.
why?
Korean dont want korean exclusive too..
when korean won, they bring up what the hell about korean win the big tournament.
They dont be proud of korean winner.
They didnt celebration.They all said "Fuxxing kimchi man~" repeatly to themself
Some persons claimed that Code S must expand round of 36 then must invite top 4 foriener without exclude other koreans results


Could you explain was "kimchi" is?

zz_
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden1022 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 19:20:52
April 10 2012 19:19 GMT
#100
On April 11 2012 03:46 zEnVy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 03:02 MLGTerraN wrote:
hello? I am korean
I visited every korean community when ipl final day start
They all said "fuXXing kimchi man~" as one.
why?
Korean dont want korean exclusive too..
when korean won, they bring up what the hell about korean win the big tournament.
They dont be proud of korean winner.
They didnt celebration.They all said "Fuxxing kimchi man~" repeatly to themself
Some persons claimed that Code S must expand round of 36 then must invite top 4 foriener without exclude other koreans results


Could you explain was "kimchi" is?


PANCAKES! :D




No but seriously it's a type of korean food, though idk what it means in this sentence lol
In the absence of justice, what is sovereignty but organized robbery?
Govou
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1072 Posts
April 10 2012 19:21 GMT
#101
I sensed that there has been genuine interest and hope for foreigners to do well in korean community. Sure it's hard to say it isnt about money but noone wouldnt want to see SC2 going global and getting bigger. To say they are only saying that to be polite or for money is pretty closed minded prejudice.

As for Naniwa episode, I think it is pretty evident that it has to do more with Naniwa than him being a foreigner.
RageBot
Profile Joined November 2010
Israel1530 Posts
April 10 2012 19:22 GMT
#102
On April 11 2012 04:04 Arceus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 02:57 RageBot wrote:
On April 11 2012 02:24 Arceus wrote:
yet another bitter thread made out of inferiority complex. I doubt the Koreans gave a fuck about the so called 'interest'


Yeah! Those stupid Koreans don't give a fuck wether the scene lives, so that they can have a salary for a long period of time by sustaning viewers, or it dies and they've essentialy wasted years of their lives on nothing!

Right? YEAH!!!

come on man It's not like they are invited over to SOTG to give some deeply thoughtful insight about the scene. They were grabbed in the middle of nowhere to give some one word answers. They would probably say whatever cool things popping up in their mind in those situations. And like someone said above, It's naturally exciting if foreigners manage to put up a decent fight. America really enjoyed Dirk Nowitzki dominating the court and winning a ring, didnt they?

But hey, take it seriously if these stuffs ever make you bitter fans somehow better about the future of foreigners. Go ahead make another thread lulz


I actually don't know if you realized that I was sarcastic, if you are sarcastic... i'm mindfucked by your post.
AKomrade
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States582 Posts
April 10 2012 19:33 GMT
#103
Maybe they just like us the way we like them? There is a lot of that in other communities too (JDM/USDM tuning scenes for example).

And in many respects, the foreigners they face are a bit like them (WC3 players, B/practice team/semi-pro BW players). Everyone benefits from a united front when the Proleague BW guys come knocking.
ALL HAIL THE KING IN THE NORTH! HAIL! HAIL!
Mataza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany5364 Posts
April 10 2012 19:58 GMT
#104
Probably because for koreans abroad it´s just a new place, but not new opponents.

"GSL, but somewhere on the other side of the globe" lends itself to the question why people not just hold the tournament in korea in the first place. I know I would scratch my head if I would fly to Hawaii and proceed to play against only people that live next door.
If nobody hates you, you´re doing something wrong. However someone hating you doesn´t make you right
theBOOCH
Profile Joined November 2010
United States832 Posts
April 10 2012 20:10 GMT
#105
That's interesting. I think they understand that a lot of foreigners practice really hard and there are clearly some who are better than your average "pro" Korean. I think it's just a mutual respect thing and they don't want to lose the growing relationship between the two communities. It benefits both the Korean and foreign communities if the two come together, so yeah, it makes sense that they would want to see a foreigner win, especially one that really deserves it.
If all you're offering is Dos Equis, I will stay thirsty thank you very much.
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
April 10 2012 20:59 GMT
#106
On April 11 2012 03:58 Vickhoff wrote:
Well i trust Naniwa on this one as top foreigner living in Korea

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=326888

A bit on what Naniwa thinks about this topic.


But naniwas experience in korea isn't indicitive of every foreigners, firstly, Naniwa himself ever says that the people he's on a team with, startale, will not leak his replays. Leaking replays from your teammates is a cardinal sin in korea, i remember when ret went to korea, just because he was seen chatting to friends over b.net while watching a replay was enough to almost get him kicked out of the team. Koreans do not share their teammates replays, mabye if nestea hits naniwa on ladder and naniwa does an odd timing, then nestea will share it with his teammates, but if naniwa is in the startale house, then his inhouse practice partners won't share his builds.

Secondly, naniwa and his attitude of "results/skill is all that matters" where he feels that manner or respect arn't that important (see his response to the korean response to his probe rush) clashes strongly with the koreans who often actively apologise in interviews if they feel they won doing an overpowwered build or boring/cheesey play because they feel bad.

If you look back at when nony and idra were in korea, as far as i can tell they had the full support of their korean teammates (this is broodwar, and nony's team was apparently incredibly friendly, helpful and would not try to "spite" him by helping his opponents)

Also look at the relationship between liquid and ogs, they support each other, avenge each other and give each other tips in gsl. (i think Mc wore a huk shirt in a game where he was playing the person who knocked huk out of gsl or something way back) this is not the attitude that naniwa describes at all. I think naniwa's case is more that his personality doesn't mesh with the koreans, and theirs don't mesh with him, so they don't get along. Hence he doesn't have the best experience working with them. Naniwa's experience is not evidence of some "korean vs the world" syndrome, if anything its "a small group of korean friends helping each other against someone they don't know"...
Waterflow
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1550 Posts
April 10 2012 21:01 GMT
#107
Lies! ALL LIES!!!
MrMotionPicture
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4327 Posts
April 10 2012 21:02 GMT
#108
I had a dream last night that Sheth won the next major tournament. All money on Sheth!
"Elvis Presley" | Ret was looking at my post in the GSL video by Artosis. | MMA told me I look like Juanfran while we shared an elevator with Scarlett
marcesr
Profile Joined June 2008
Germany1383 Posts
April 10 2012 21:02 GMT
#109
Koreans pros are smarter than most poster on this forum, what a surprise!
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 21:03:40
April 10 2012 21:03 GMT
#110
On April 11 2012 04:22 RageBot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 04:04 Arceus wrote:
On April 11 2012 02:57 RageBot wrote:
On April 11 2012 02:24 Arceus wrote:
yet another bitter thread made out of inferiority complex. I doubt the Koreans gave a fuck about the so called 'interest'


Yeah! Those stupid Koreans don't give a fuck wether the scene lives, so that they can have a salary for a long period of time by sustaning viewers, or it dies and they've essentialy wasted years of their lives on nothing!

Right? YEAH!!!

come on man It's not like they are invited over to SOTG to give some deeply thoughtful insight about the scene. They were grabbed in the middle of nowhere to give some one word answers. They would probably say whatever cool things popping up in their mind in those situations. And like someone said above, It's naturally exciting if foreigners manage to put up a decent fight. America really enjoyed Dirk Nowitzki dominating the court and winning a ring, didnt they?

But hey, take it seriously if these stuffs ever make you bitter fans somehow better about the future of foreigners. Go ahead make another thread lulz


I actually don't know if you realized that I was sarcastic, if you are sarcastic... i'm mindfucked by your post.


I'm not sure who is being sarcastic and who isn't either, but tell me that boxer and iloveoov don't care about the esports scene as a whole



^^ their response to an event which a player placed personal gain above the good of esports as a whole.
JiPrime
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada688 Posts
April 10 2012 22:29 GMT
#111
Man, I knew of this for long time but I didn't say it here because it might have started a shitstorm.
As a Korean, I can confirm this.
Even Koreans are sick of Korean players winning everything.
We always cheer for foreigners when they're playing, except Naniwa.
Ksquared
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1748 Posts
April 10 2012 22:39 GMT
#112
Nobody wants Sc2 to become a game where only Koreans play.
eSports for life.
DiuLaSing
Profile Joined August 2011
Hong Kong225 Posts
April 10 2012 22:39 GMT
#113
well its pretty obvious that only foreigner fans checks their twitter.....so....=\
"You just abuse idiocy" - bad boy
ReaperX
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Hong Kong1758 Posts
April 10 2012 22:40 GMT
#114
because foreigners are ez!! jk
Artosis : Clide. idrA : Shut up.
chatuka
Profile Joined July 2011
1351 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 22:45:51
April 10 2012 22:44 GMT
#115
On April 11 2012 07:39 Ksquared wrote:
Nobody wants Sc2 to become a game where only Koreans play.

who are you speaking for?

I just want the best of the best to come out and show me higher levels of SC2..I am very frustrated that the Chinese
and Japanese do not play with same level of Fervor and dedication as the Koreans do. I am also expecting some
scandanavian to take this game seriously and kick all of the Korean player's tails. Because Scandanavia has a ridiculous
talent pool to select from. That is, if E-sports was truly one of the major sports in the world.


If players can make Millions of dollars playing an Online sport, you will see the Cream rise to the top in every country.
That will start the slow transition to National Parity to SC2 or LoL

But, slowly but surely, e-sports will become as big as Football. It is just a matter of time.
LuckyGnomTV
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Russian Federation367 Posts
April 10 2012 22:45 GMT
#116
I bet this is just a good manners, nothing more. Every korean guy will tell you that koreans cheering for koreans all the time.
JohnMatrix
Profile Joined April 2011
France1356 Posts
April 10 2012 22:45 GMT
#117
Historicly it in fact really show how just hyper far ahead korean bw players were (are) compared to foreigners and now are quite happy to see a few of them able to give them a hard time on sc2 for the moment. its just insane.
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10341 Posts
April 10 2012 22:49 GMT
#118
Duh, foreigners win --> foreigner interest doesn't die --> foreign tourney's continue --> more money to be spread around --> Koreans have more opportunities for prize money --> additionally, stable employment for all.

If a foreigner never wins another major tourney, the foreign scene will probably die just like in Brood war. But Huk cracking the final eight every time will probably prolong things.
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
April 10 2012 22:55 GMT
#119
On April 11 2012 07:29 JiPrime wrote:
Man, I knew of this for long time but I didn't say it here because it might have started a shitstorm.
As a Korean, I can confirm this.
Even Koreans are sick of Korean players winning everything.
We always cheer for foreigners when they're playing, except Naniwa.


Lol.Well, thats what Naniwa gets for being a jerk XD.

But its good the truth comes out.
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 23:02:19
April 10 2012 23:01 GMT
#120
i'm rooting for foreigners, i'm hoping for a foreigner champ at gsl, preferably canadian, i'm looking at you huk.
i'm patiently waiting for the second coming of giyom.

i also enjoy the korean domination, but that doesnt mean i want foreigners to do bad, its the opposite.
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
Gojira621
Profile Joined October 2010
United States374 Posts
April 10 2012 23:02 GMT
#121
Part of it is likely them being polite. Another is the fact that people lose interest when the final 8 of most of these major LANs is pretty much all korean. I watch GSL for sick koreans I want to see other players shine in other leagues. People lose interest, and soon people won't want to watch many non korean tournaments and sponsors will drop, and then koreans will be stuck with just GSL, which is beyond amazingly difficult to get into and much more difficult to have good results.
www.twitch.tv/Gojira621
TheHansBecker
Profile Joined February 2011
United States117 Posts
April 10 2012 23:04 GMT
#122
--- Nuked ---
wwowz
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada156 Posts
April 10 2012 23:33 GMT
#123
I am an active user at playxp.com (korean SC community) and I can approve this message as well. Koreans do want foreingers to win. Sometimes they worry that too much korean dominance will ruin foreign E-sports community... That's why some of the fans are rooting for foreign players like stephano hardcore.
gulati
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2241 Posts
April 10 2012 23:36 GMT
#124
Not really all that surprising. Back in the days of Grrr and Assem, there was a huge uprising and support for them to do well by Koreans in the individual and team leagues.

Shit, even Greg got support in Korea. I don't know if I'd go as far to say that he was told by pros to "win", but he was well-liked.

I think the reason is that Koreans realize that having a foreign hope will drive competition more, and will make more tournaments, thus they will be invited to compete against the "best foreigners" more often. Seems like they are investing in the long term with this. And no, it's not meant to be sinister or evil - they genuinely like our passion and desire to succeed no matter what, which is why they always say that they love American / foreign crowds at tournaments because we cheer like apes.
C r u m b l i n g
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 23:40:10
April 10 2012 23:38 GMT
#125
How about the argument that it just makes for more diversity of players, and more self-identity players around the world can relate with.
It would put the game more on par with others such as in the Olympics (or other global competitions) where there's many different sorts of countries represented.

This reason probably isn't one of the more major one though, since many of the ones mentioned fulfill more of a selfish view, and/or are have more force/realism.
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
April 10 2012 23:42 GMT
#126
I think it's too preemptive to take the desires of 3 guys as a reflection of the sentiment of all Koreans.
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
Kambing
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1176 Posts
April 10 2012 23:48 GMT
#127
On April 11 2012 08:33 wwowz wrote:
I am an active user at playxp.com (korean SC community) and I can approve this message as well. Koreans do want foreingers to win. Sometimes they worry that too much korean dominance will ruin foreign E-sports community... That's why some of the fans are rooting for foreign players like stephano hardcore.


This. Many hardcore foreign fans don't seem to understand that the long-term viability of sc2 rests on the foreign community's ability to produce players that can compete at the highest levels. Without that sort of sustainability, sc2 will fade away much like quake has over the last two years.
Fall.182
Profile Joined September 2010
United States126 Posts
April 10 2012 23:51 GMT
#128
On April 10 2012 09:15 Mohdoo wrote:
Too bad their players don't. Naniwa and others have commented on how Koreans all band together and share replays to beat foreigners like Naniwa and other top players who are actually on their level. But with all of their working together, they are able to always beat foreigners just due to the fact that their replays are shared by practice partners they trusted.



okay.. thats some bullshit right there.
Just because you have someones reply wont mean youll be able to outplay another.
Plus watching us foreigners verses koreans shows clearly the difference in control which cant be just learned from watching replays, you're just being ignorant.
Netsky
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1155 Posts
April 10 2012 23:55 GMT
#129
Of course Koreans want foreigners to have a little success.

SC2 isn't very popular in Korea. Maybe this will change a little with it starting on OGN etc. But that's all conjecture at this point. Foreigner money is propping up the scene at the moment, why do you think it is that GOM gives charity seeds to foreigners in the GSL? It's because they think this will help increase subscriptions if foreigners have someone to cheer for.

For me personally, I don't care where the players are from. I just enjoy the actual game. All my favourite players are Korean because they are by far the most skilled.
Opeasy
Profile Joined August 2011
107 Posts
April 10 2012 23:58 GMT
#130
Personally I don't think it matters if they are koreans or not, as long as they are likable and not a "grey mouse". MC is a person everyone can like, because he is theatrical and lively. Koreans probably want the game to stay popular all over, so it's good to have different champions. Still, i don't see it happening before more korean teams pick up foreigners. Take thorzains stay, he improved so much. If he stayed a year, he would be winning tournaments left and right
GreyKnight
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4720 Posts
April 11 2012 00:04 GMT
#131
On April 10 2012 08:26 GoSuChicken wrote:
I dont know if this is worth a thread, but I think its quite interesting, that some koreans want to see foreigners to win tournaments like IPL4

Source: http://www.twitch.tv/iplliveu/b/314371855 Starting @ ~38 min both aLive and Ganzi state that they want Stephano to win/do well because hes a foreigner and there are so many koreans in foreign tourneys, earlier in this vod MMA stated the same starting @~21 min.

This is in my opinion very interesting since there is so much talking going on about how it sucks that foreigners arent able to compete with koreans. I see various reasons too why koreans now want foreigners to do well. One would obviously be that they're just being polite, since they're interviewed by foreigners.
Another reason, and that is the interesting one for me, is that they realize that foreigners cheer more for foreign players, and that they might stop paying attention to tournaments if there are only korean players flying to for example MLG and taking top 30.

What do you guys think, why do koreans want foreigners to do well?



Did people think koreans band together to eliminate foreigners or something? EVERYONE wants players to win, it's just that foreigners aren't good enough to compete. The korean progamers aren't going to play less hard in the game just because they like white people winning. Their goal is to win too by any legal means possible.

I played high school basketball, I knew people on teams we had to play against I wanted them to win but I still played my hardest to beat them.
emc
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3088 Posts
April 11 2012 00:10 GMT
#132
stephano does beat koreans, he's done it before maybe they weren't paying attention
Assirra
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium4169 Posts
April 11 2012 00:25 GMT
#133
On April 11 2012 09:10 emc wrote:
stephano does beat koreans, he's done it before maybe they weren't paying attention

I think they want more then 1 person tough...
nokz88
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil1253 Posts
April 11 2012 00:31 GMT
#134
This is indeed the case for many many Korean SC2 fans. Stephano is a phenom over there, and Huk to a lesser extent. People find Idra rage/BM amusing to watch, but Naniwa's... not so much
in a state of trance
-Exalt-
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States972 Posts
April 11 2012 00:34 GMT
#135
Awww cute they feel bad for us!
Frogsox
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia274 Posts
April 11 2012 00:40 GMT
#136
My opinion is that they want foreigners to win so that the foreign scene continues to grow so that they have events to come to overseas and aren't locked up in Korea like the BW scene was. That's my hope, anyway.
BlazeFury01
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1460 Posts
April 11 2012 00:41 GMT
#137
In my opinion, I believe that if your on a pro team (outside or inside of korea) you should be able to win tournaments with korean invitees. Simply because...StarCraft is your job. If playing StarCraft is what you do all day everyday then you should at least be on equal footing with somebody (the koreans) who do the exact same thing. In this case, there's just no excuse for us foreigners lack of achievement whenever we attend tournaments with Korean presence.
Eee
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden2712 Posts
April 11 2012 00:42 GMT
#138
On April 11 2012 08:51 Fall.182 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 09:15 Mohdoo wrote:
Too bad their players don't. Naniwa and others have commented on how Koreans all band together and share replays to beat foreigners like Naniwa and other top players who are actually on their level. But with all of their working together, they are able to always beat foreigners just due to the fact that their replays are shared by practice partners they trusted.



okay.. thats some bullshit right there.
Just because you have someones reply wont mean youll be able to outplay another.
Plus watching us foreigners verses koreans shows clearly the difference in control which cant be just learned from watching replays, you're just being ignorant.

It couldn't have gotten more BS than your post actually. GSL is a league where prepared builds matter the most, if a replay of your build is leaked 2 days prior to the groups are supposed to play, you're essentially fucked since your opponent can prepare a counter build.
warblob004
Profile Joined January 2011
United States198 Posts
April 11 2012 00:43 GMT
#139
CAUSE STEPHANO IS AWESOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMME.

Iccup =
A+ - all Korean
A - all Korean
A- - one foreigner with like 400 games, rest Korean with like 70 games
B+ - all korean
B - couple foreigners
etc etc etc..
"I have not failed; I've simply found 10,000 ways it won't work." ~Thomas Edison
basballguy
Profile Joined November 2010
United States35 Posts
April 11 2012 00:43 GMT
#140
so tired of being referred to as a "foriegner" on a game that was originally developed by a US company for the US market.

I'm sure that's been beaten down plenty times already though....

nonetheless, it makes sense (what the koreans say)
It's not always rainbows and butterflies; it's compromise that moves us along.
wwowz
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada156 Posts
April 11 2012 00:44 GMT
#141
On April 11 2012 09:40 Frogsox wrote:
My opinion is that they want foreigners to win so that the foreign scene continues to grow so that they have events to come to overseas and aren't locked up in Korea like the BW scene was. That's my hope, anyway.


you are absolutely right. Often the posts on playxp.com (again korean SC community) suggests that SC2 is a "failure" by Blizzard as it isn't so much popular in Korea (which is unrepresentative decision). Many people are afraid that if foreign players are done with competing against Koreans, SC2 scene will fall miserably and the hope of becoming globla E sport will be over.
revel8
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom3022 Posts
April 11 2012 00:45 GMT
#142
Polt gave an interview at the recent MLG and he said that if he himself did not win that tournament, he would like Huk to win it.
BlazeFury01
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1460 Posts
April 11 2012 00:50 GMT
#143
On April 11 2012 09:43 basballguy wrote:
so tired of being referred to as a "foriegner" on a game that was originally developed by a US company for the US market.

I'm sure that's been beaten down plenty times already though....

nonetheless, it makes sense (what the koreans say)


I feel you man.
happyness
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2400 Posts
April 11 2012 00:50 GMT
#144
No surprise. I usually cheer against the U.S. in the olympics.
unknownGamer
Profile Joined April 2012
288 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-11 00:58:21
April 11 2012 00:58 GMT
#145
lol, off topic, I saw naniwa's name a few threads ago and I finally remembered something, do you guys remember the prison break character haywire? LOL, he fucking looks like him, I swear.
archonOOid
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1983 Posts
April 11 2012 01:00 GMT
#146
If Koreans, generally speaking, want to see foreigners at the top of the podium why aren't they picking up foreigners in their rosters. The globalization in starcraft 2 has come from the western teams and not the Korean teams. The Gom TV house has had a terrible practice environment and the seeds to GSL is just to make fool of the Westerners. I have a hard time to see any positive interaction from Koreans that has benefited the western scene. The OGS+TL, Slayers+EG and ST+Quantic came to be by nagging foreigners and not by generous Koreans. The entire SC2 Korean scene (GSL) was initiated by Blizzard and i can go on and on. The world tournament that was held with a team match and a regular single elimination bracket didn't help the western scene at all. That tournament was created so that the viewership would go up, spur interest and so that the GSL could maintain itself economically by foreigner money. That's my 0.02$
I'm Quotable (IQ)
Grimmyman123
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada939 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-11 01:03:04
April 11 2012 01:02 GMT
#147
While fans will all admit - we want to watch a championship bout with greatness, amazing plays etc - we all want to root for our favorite players. A good number of those players are non-koreans. We also like to watch and root for our countrymen, and hope they do well.

I won't say that people are racist - but we do like to cheer for a countryman - to boast that their country represented well at a tournement and bested the others.

This means, that viewerships go up and down based on how many non-Koreans remain or are involved in a tournament. If a single foreigner remains, viewership stays to a degree - fans will change allegiance and will root for an underdog or not their typical player - and root for that single remaining player amongst the Sc2 gods from Korea.

Ultimately, and I wish I had the numbers and stats for IPL4 and other recent tourneys- if the Player pool is all from a single country - foreigner viewership might fall quite a bit. Possibly enormously so. If that was to occur quite a few times in a single year, and viewer statistics being the source of commercial sponsorships - tournaments and prize pools might dry up.

It is without question that the best paying and successful tournament are outside the GSL. The GSL takes an enormous commitment from a player to residing in Korea, and only able to leave during down time or if that player is knocked out of the GSL as that tournament continues. The same player can make equal or greater compensation with a good finish at a weekend long tournament - 1 month+ static commitment, or tour the world and a 3 day commitment - it is easy math to see where the money is.

So, for non-Korean tournaments to continue - viewerships need to stay up, and stay consistent or on the rise continuously.
Win. That's all that matters. Win. Nobody likes to lose.
Opeasy
Profile Joined August 2011
107 Posts
April 11 2012 01:03 GMT
#148
On April 11 2012 09:43 basballguy wrote:
so tired of being referred to as a "foriegner" on a game that was originally developed by a US company for the US market.

I'm sure that's been beaten down plenty times already though....

nonetheless, it makes sense (what the koreans say)


Are you sure about it being developed for the US market? I've never heard about this. I think blizzard was aiming at a global market. It would be kinda strange if they weren't.
Assirra
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium4169 Posts
April 11 2012 01:04 GMT
#149
On April 11 2012 10:00 archonOOid wrote:
If Koreans, generally speaking, want to see foreigners at the top of the podium why aren't they picking up foreigners in their rosters. The globalization in starcraft 2 has come from the western teams and not the Korean teams. The Gom TV house has had a terrible practice environment and the seeds to GSL is just to make fool of the Westerners. I have a hard time to see any positive interaction from Koreans that has benefited the western scene. The OGS+TL, Slayers+EG and ST+Quantic came to be by nagging foreigners and not by generous Koreans. The entire SC2 Korean scene (GSL) was initiated by Blizzard and i can go on and on. The world tournament that was held with a team match and a regular single elimination bracket didn't help the western scene at all. That tournament was created so that the viewership would go up, spur interest and so that the GSL could maintain itself economically by foreigner money. That's my 0.02$

This makes no sense.
You want them to pick up unknown foreigners add them to their team/house including a translator cause the foreigners can't win on their own?
Grimmyman123
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada939 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-11 01:08:03
April 11 2012 01:06 GMT
#150
On April 11 2012 10:04 Assirra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 10:00 archonOOid wrote:
If Koreans, generally speaking, want to see foreigners at the top of the podium why aren't they picking up foreigners in their rosters. The globalization in starcraft 2 has come from the western teams and not the Korean teams. The Gom TV house has had a terrible practice environment and the seeds to GSL is just to make fool of the Westerners. I have a hard time to see any positive interaction from Koreans that has benefited the western scene. The OGS+TL, Slayers+EG and ST+Quantic came to be by nagging foreigners and not by generous Koreans. The entire SC2 Korean scene (GSL) was initiated by Blizzard and i can go on and on. The world tournament that was held with a team match and a regular single elimination bracket didn't help the western scene at all. That tournament was created so that the viewership would go up, spur interest and so that the GSL could maintain itself economically by foreigner money. That's my 0.02$

This makes no sense.
You want them to pick up unknown foreigners add them to their team/house including a translator cause the foreigners can't win on their own?


Not at all - more that team house training was initiated by the non-koreans, and not initiated by the teams. Further, they are joint team ventures, I off the top of my head cannot think of a foreign player straight up recruited long term by a Korean team.
Win. That's all that matters. Win. Nobody likes to lose.
emc
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3088 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-11 01:13:53
April 11 2012 01:09 GMT
#151
On April 11 2012 09:25 Assirra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 09:10 emc wrote:
stephano does beat koreans, he's done it before maybe they weren't paying attention

I think they want more then 1 person tough...


he's won IPL twice? he beat polt in lone star awhile back? he wins plenty.

i see what you meant... well we aren't going to have more foreigners win anything unless they get their act together

they must be getting sick of winning everything. the foreign tournaments will continue to go on as long as the koreans are willing to travel which they are, koreans bring crowds to tournaments whether you believe that or not.
Assirra
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium4169 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-11 01:11:44
April 11 2012 01:11 GMT
#152
On April 11 2012 10:09 emc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 09:25 Assirra wrote:
On April 11 2012 09:10 emc wrote:
stephano does beat koreans, he's done it before maybe they weren't paying attention

I think they want more then 1 person tough...


he's won IPL twice? he beat polt in lone star awhile back? he wins plenty.

I don't wanna be the rude but that is still 1 person...
Vundox
Profile Joined March 2011
United States182 Posts
April 11 2012 01:17 GMT
#153
On April 11 2012 10:02 Grimmyman123 wrote:
blip


Racism and nationalism are not the same thing. Whether or not you support Koreans or foreigners, it doesn't make you nor anyone a racist.
implying Suzy isn't perfect
emc
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3088 Posts
April 11 2012 01:18 GMT
#154
On April 11 2012 10:11 Assirra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 10:09 emc wrote:
On April 11 2012 09:25 Assirra wrote:
On April 11 2012 09:10 emc wrote:
stephano does beat koreans, he's done it before maybe they weren't paying attention

I think they want more then 1 person tough...


he's won IPL twice? he beat polt in lone star awhile back? he wins plenty.

I don't wanna be the rude but that is still 1 person...


sure but whats the difference between 1 korean winning everything and multiple koreans winning everything? they are still korean. I see it the same way for foreigners, if stephano is winning everything then that's good enough for me to realize we have a chance. I don't care if idra was winning or if stephano was winning or if they both were, they are foreigners and that's enough for me.
bro_fenix
Profile Joined February 2010
United States132 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-11 01:22:04
April 11 2012 01:21 GMT
#155
I think Koreans realize that we are just players, and national ties mean little when you're playing a player in Starcraft or watching a player in one sense (although it is quite fun to root for USA ) But seriously, encouraging all players to do well is a great tradition IMO, and especially raises people's spirits and dedication to become a great SC2 pro player.
Life isnt about waiting for the storm to pass... Its about learning to dance in the rain.
Wildmoon
Profile Joined December 2011
Thailand4189 Posts
April 11 2012 01:26 GMT
#156
People want foriegners to win but unfortunately they are just not able to do it.
Killcycle
Profile Joined January 2011
United States170 Posts
April 11 2012 01:28 GMT
#157
I hate the term Foreigner.
I fear not the shadows of glory nor the echoes of eternity; place before me a true rendition of greatness... and then we shall see.
shadymmj
Profile Joined June 2010
1906 Posts
April 11 2012 01:31 GMT
#158
because if this keeps up, in 1 year, the sc2 scene will start to resemble BW and the foreign fanbase will move on to the next shiny new game. yeah, there are some of us who aren't that shallow - a minority, look at the BW section now.
There is no such thing is "e-sports". There is Brood War, and then there is crap for nerds.
Assirra
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium4169 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-11 01:33:28
April 11 2012 01:32 GMT
#159
On April 11 2012 10:18 emc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 10:11 Assirra wrote:
On April 11 2012 10:09 emc wrote:
On April 11 2012 09:25 Assirra wrote:
On April 11 2012 09:10 emc wrote:
stephano does beat koreans, he's done it before maybe they weren't paying attention

I think they want more then 1 person tough...


he's won IPL twice? he beat polt in lone star awhile back? he wins plenty.

I don't wanna be the rude but that is still 1 person...


sure but whats the difference between 1 korean winning everything and multiple koreans winning everything? they are still korean. I see it the same way for foreigners, if stephano is winning everything then that's good enough for me to realize we have a chance. I don't care if idra was winning or if stephano was winning or if they both were, they are foreigners and that's enough for me.

Except that the main point here.
There is not 1 korean winning everything ever since MVP his wrists got worse.
The one that looked that way was MKP and he didn't for IPL.
You need depth to compete.
What you gonne do when Stephano retires? Wait for the next one foreigner in the hope he arises to combat the swarm of koreans?
Wildmoon
Profile Joined December 2011
Thailand4189 Posts
April 11 2012 01:35 GMT
#160
I think it all depends on foriengers to step up their game.
aRyuujin
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5049 Posts
April 11 2012 01:40 GMT
#161
On April 11 2012 10:09 emc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 09:25 Assirra wrote:
On April 11 2012 09:10 emc wrote:
stephano does beat koreans, he's done it before maybe they weren't paying attention

I think they want more then 1 person tough...


he's won IPL twice? he beat polt in lone star awhile back? he wins plenty.

i see what you meant... well we aren't going to have more foreigners win anything unless they get their act together

they must be getting sick of winning everything. the foreign tournaments will continue to go on as long as the koreans are willing to travel which they are, koreans bring crowds to tournaments whether you believe that or not.


stephano won ipl 3, so only one.
can i get my estro logo back pls
emc
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3088 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-11 01:43:50
April 11 2012 01:40 GMT
#162
On April 11 2012 10:32 Assirra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 10:18 emc wrote:
On April 11 2012 10:11 Assirra wrote:
On April 11 2012 10:09 emc wrote:
On April 11 2012 09:25 Assirra wrote:
On April 11 2012 09:10 emc wrote:
stephano does beat koreans, he's done it before maybe they weren't paying attention

I think they want more then 1 person tough...


he's won IPL twice? he beat polt in lone star awhile back? he wins plenty.

I don't wanna be the rude but that is still 1 person...


sure but whats the difference between 1 korean winning everything and multiple koreans winning everything? they are still korean. I see it the same way for foreigners, if stephano is winning everything then that's good enough for me to realize we have a chance. I don't care if idra was winning or if stephano was winning or if they both were, they are foreigners and that's enough for me.

Except that the main point here.
There is not 1 korean winning everything ever since MVP his wrists got worse.
The one that looked that way was MKP and he didn't for IPL.
You need depth to compete.
What you gonne do when Stephano retires? Wait for the next one foreigner in the hope he arises to combat the swarm of koreans?


what else can you do but wait for someone else to shine? what do you want me to say? if all we get is one foreigner who can beat koreans than so be it, it's not my fault and it's not the koreans, it's the rest of the foreign players. My point is that whats the difference between MKP winning everything and MVP winning everything or 1,000 different koreans winning everything? they are still korean and are still dominating. At least we have a foreigner who can actually make top 8 consistently and even win tournaments. Sure more foreigners winning would be great, but it's not necessary for foreign events to continue because koreans draw the crowds to the events because they bring the best games. I just want GOOD games, and whether it's all koreans, all foreigners or a combination giving the games then I don't care.

we're all spectators here and I find it funny we get threads like these daily about "how do we get better in the foreign scene etc. etc." let the pros figure that out, it's not really up to us whether the pros win their games. So can we just stop with this korea vs foreigners bull crap? I'm more interested in the players, not their country. If foreigners want to win then it's up to them.
Arco
Profile Joined September 2009
United States2090 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-11 01:44:23
April 11 2012 01:43 GMT
#163
On April 10 2012 09:26 jinorazi wrote:
i'm sure everyone wants to move away from the bw stigma (white people suck)
except whitera, he beat boxer *nod*

So did G5. Also, Ret took a game off Nada in BW, too.

I think even some foreigner at WCG within the last couple years took down Jaedong in a game with Bio/mech.
freakhill
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Japan463 Posts
April 11 2012 03:16 GMT
#164
On April 11 2012 10:28 Killcycle wrote:
I hate the term Foreigner.


Why?
moo ForGG, Dragon, MVP, Gumiho, DRG, PartinG, Life]0[!
rauk
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States2228 Posts
April 11 2012 03:24 GMT
#165
On April 11 2012 10:43 Tump wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 09:26 jinorazi wrote:
i'm sure everyone wants to move away from the bw stigma (white people suck)
except whitera, he beat boxer *nod*

So did G5. Also, Ret took a game off Nada in BW, too.

I think even some foreigner at WCG within the last couple years took down Jaedong in a game with Bio/mech.


that was bratok

jd gave him way too much credit iirc when i watched the rep jd had enough shit to break him. maybe not enough vs korean micro, but probably vs foreigner.
LimitSEA
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia9580 Posts
April 11 2012 03:38 GMT
#166
On April 10 2012 08:37 Blade Fox wrote:
Well just ask yourself if you're a non-korean, "If a non-korean wins is it more imprinted on my mind than if another korean wins?"

The answer is most likely yes I remember Huk winning tournaments more than I do a korean winning a tournament. Or I remember Naniwa almost beating all the koreans at an MLG last year than I really cared about Leenock winning.

It generates more interest more competition is always funner than less for the competitive minded. I imagine if foreigners were dominating over koreans they'd say the same thing if you look at it that way.

Or I guess it could just be PR. Derp.

Not even a little bit. I remember my favourite players winning more than whether a foreigner or a Korean wins. If it isn't one of my favourite players, I probably don't care unless the games were amazing. I'm not into all this "we need more good foreigners" business. I'm more interested in seeing awesome games. If it's Koreans bringing it, then I'll cheer for them. Same with foreigners.

Long live the King of Wings
HiTeK532
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada171 Posts
April 11 2012 03:38 GMT
#167
I remember Huk won MLG Orlando last year I can't name the location of another MLG from last year.
I play games not girls
Coated
Profile Joined August 2011
United States74 Posts
April 11 2012 03:44 GMT
#168
Yea, this really isn't hard to understand.

Koreans want more viewers because more viewers = more money. If the entire SC2 scene is nothing but Koreans, then there will be a huge decrease in foreigner viewers. This has nothing to do with Korean's actually 'caring' whether or not foreigners are in a tournament or not. The care is in the money.
Another one bites the dust
boxturtle
Profile Joined December 2011
United States224 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-11 04:19:49
April 11 2012 04:17 GMT
#169
On April 11 2012 10:06 Grimmyman123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 10:04 Assirra wrote:
On April 11 2012 10:00 archonOOid wrote:
If Koreans, generally speaking, want to see foreigners at the top of the podium why aren't they picking up foreigners in their rosters. The globalization in starcraft 2 has come from the western teams and not the Korean teams. The Gom TV house has had a terrible practice environment and the seeds to GSL is just to make fool of the Westerners. I have a hard time to see any positive interaction from Koreans that has benefited the western scene. The OGS+TL, Slayers+EG and ST+Quantic came to be by nagging foreigners and not by generous Koreans. The entire SC2 Korean scene (GSL) was initiated by Blizzard and i can go on and on. The world tournament that was held with a team match and a regular single elimination bracket didn't help the western scene at all. That tournament was created so that the viewership would go up, spur interest and so that the GSL could maintain itself economically by foreigner money. That's my 0.02$

This makes no sense.
You want them to pick up unknown foreigners add them to their team/house including a translator cause the foreigners can't win on their own?


Not at all - more that team house training was initiated by the non-koreans, and not initiated by the teams. Further, they are joint team ventures, I off the top of my head cannot think of a foreign player straight up recruited long term by a Korean team.


IM picked up Fenix to exactly what you're saying. He kept dropping out of tournaments due to a health problem that wasn't revealed to the general public and finally went home to South American later on.

If you're looking at nani's view of Koreans vs Foreigners, it's most likely way wrong. Koreans loved HuK, IdrA, and Stephano. They just don't seem to like Naniwa much.
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
April 11 2012 04:23 GMT
#170
On April 11 2012 12:24 rauk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 10:43 Tump wrote:
On April 10 2012 09:26 jinorazi wrote:
i'm sure everyone wants to move away from the bw stigma (white people suck)
except whitera, he beat boxer *nod*

So did G5. Also, Ret took a game off Nada in BW, too.

I think even some foreigner at WCG within the last couple years took down Jaedong in a game with Bio/mech.


that was bratok

jd gave him way too much credit iirc when i watched the rep jd had enough shit to break him. maybe not enough vs korean micro, but probably vs foreigner.

Thought it was Advokate?
Govou
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1072 Posts
April 11 2012 04:39 GMT
#171
On April 11 2012 12:44 Coated wrote:
This has nothing to do with Korean's actually 'caring' whether or not foreigners are in a tournament or not. The care is in the money.


what makes you think koreans dont care about foreingers?

I dont know which MLG was it but I once vistied playXP and google translated couple long winded thread. It seemed they genuinely cared about other players.

Also I remember reading few of Milkis translated reaction from playXP and I've sensed none of malicious intent when talking amongst themselves.
Talack
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada2742 Posts
April 11 2012 04:48 GMT
#172
They don't want them to win they want to gain viewers for the game as a whole. People are quickly losing interest in sc2 but what generates a TON of viewers is non-korean players (honeslty have no idea why, there are no foreigners that i tune in just to see (no offense at all). but i will tune in to watch MKP or MMA play. two huge superstars. watching idra fumble around is not nearly as great as watching MKP split units vs storms/banelings or w/e)
FXOBoSs
Profile Joined August 2011
337 Posts
April 11 2012 04:50 GMT
#173
Koreans are identifying that what happened in brood war is happening in sc2. I am not saying this is why they are supporting stephano specifically, but it would be the reason they want foreigners to compete.

www.twitter.com/gosutrading
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
April 11 2012 04:52 GMT
#174
On April 11 2012 13:23 Dfgj wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 12:24 rauk wrote:
On April 11 2012 10:43 Tump wrote:
On April 10 2012 09:26 jinorazi wrote:
i'm sure everyone wants to move away from the bw stigma (white people suck)
except whitera, he beat boxer *nod*

So did G5. Also, Ret took a game off Nada in BW, too.

I think even some foreigner at WCG within the last couple years took down Jaedong in a game with Bio/mech.


that was bratok

jd gave him way too much credit iirc when i watched the rep jd had enough shit to break him. maybe not enough vs korean micro, but probably vs foreigner.

Thought it was Advokate?


It was Advokate.

Actually foreigners won over 50 official games to Korean progamers, but all in all, it's like 1% of the games played :D
ॐ
Waterflow
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1550 Posts
April 11 2012 12:02 GMT
#175
On April 11 2012 07:40 ReaperX wrote:
because foreigners are ez!! jk


Remember that you're a foreigner yourself XD
gruff
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden2276 Posts
April 11 2012 12:17 GMT
#176
If foreigners can't win any kinds of tournements that basically mean the death of the foreign scene in the long run. I like watching Korean's as much as the next person but you need the local heros to keep the interest going. You need a swede having a shot at doing well at dreamhack, you need a idra to be competitive at a MLG and so on. I can't see it being sustainable having Korean roflstomp all non-Koreans in all tournaments. In that case it will slowly revert to us having mostly GSL/Korean events with less and less international events. It can probably find a market but it will certainly not grow esports.
Emix_Squall
Profile Joined February 2012
France705 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-11 12:38:53
April 11 2012 12:37 GMT
#177
On April 11 2012 21:17 gruff wrote:
you need a idra to be competitive at a MLG and so on


Good luck with that

Anyway I really don't think that the dominance of korean players is gonna have the same effect on SC2 that it had on BW. Times aren't the same, means aren't the same too. Anyone everywhere in the world can nowadays easily get access to any stream in English (the most international language). You can even watch most pro gamers streaming their ladder sessions.
If the best competitions involve korean players, people will simply follow these regardless of the origins of each players.
As the market is gaining in maturity, I think so are the viewers (a little at least). I believe that SC2 on the international e-sport scene is getting big enough and recognized enough so that viewer are now mostly looking for the best possible competitiveness rather than seeing local heroes rise.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying local heroes rising is pointless, it's good for local scenes to have these but considering the big international events, people will (this is only my opinion) enjoy watching the best possible confrontation rather than watching X from USA playing against Y from Nepal only because they're from Nepal.
I know I'm not the only one who skipped most of Idra's game during IPL4 because I just didn't expect a great spectacle from it. Instead I watched Koreans VS Koreans games or Stephano's games because I thought it would be more entertaining to see the very best of the bests playing, rather than a very good player who gets stomped (sorry but that's what happened) by the bests.
tymt
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden293 Posts
April 11 2012 12:40 GMT
#178
good thing naniwa will win code s season 2 then.
revel8
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom3022 Posts
April 11 2012 12:52 GMT
#179
On April 11 2012 10:31 shadymmj wrote:
because if this keeps up, in 1 year, the sc2 scene will start to resemble BW and the foreign fanbase will move on to the next shiny new game. yeah, there are some of us who aren't that shallow - a minority, look at the BW section now.


I believe this to be the case too. If Foreign players never win any prize money, it will be harder for foreign pro-gamers to make a living. The foreign fans will drift away because they will have less interest in Foreign Tournaments with little or no Foreign participation in the end-stages. The number of Foreign Tournaments will diminish as the fans drift away. The Foreign Scene will die or continue on in a much diminished way.

If things continue we could see a situation comparable to BW where it is not viable to be a Foreign pro-gamer because there are no Foreign tournaments and you have to go to Korea or play one Tournament a year.

I think the Foreign teams need to operate in a similar way to Korean teams, with daily mini-leagues and group analysis sessions to break down opponent's styles of play and work out optimal counter-builds. I don't see that organised and rigourous approach in Foreign teams. EG is probably closest, but even they have players living in different continents.

The Korean Teams give their members high-level practice partners and a support network for analysing and exploiting their opponents weaknesses and identifying and improving their own weaknesses. I don't see Millenium doing any of that for Stephano. From what I can see Stephano has to just ladder and play custom games with his friends such as Mana, Thorzain and Bling. He does not have a team who helps analyse future opponents like MMA and work out possible strategies. His friends might help him do that of course, but that is not an organised effort coming from within his team. Maybe I am wrong and Millenium do have these analysis sessions 'off the grid' but it does not seem that way.

Until the Foreign Teams re-organize and give their players the same help that Korean teams do, I think it will be really difficult for Foreign players to go up a level.
mememolly
Profile Joined December 2011
4765 Posts
April 11 2012 13:04 GMT
#180
some of the new guys/girls if they put in work could threaten the korean domination, people like Scarlett illusion etc but the old guard, idra incontrol huk thorzain naniwa etc haven't got a chance imo otherwise they would have proven themselves by now
Assirra
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium4169 Posts
April 11 2012 13:11 GMT
#181
On April 11 2012 21:40 tymt wrote:
good thing naniwa will win code s season 2 then.

Let him win more then 1 single match in GSL first shall we.
Waterflow
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1550 Posts
April 11 2012 14:24 GMT
#182
On April 11 2012 22:04 mememolly wrote:
some of the new guys/girls if they put in work could threaten the korean domination, people like Scarlett illusion etc but the old guard, idra incontrol huk thorzain naniwa etc haven't got a chance imo otherwise they would have proven themselves by now


I guess you know everything about GSL since you've been there so many times and practiced there. Right? You clearly have no clue.

There's koreans practicing just as hard as these foreign players you mentioned who haven't been able to do well in Code-S eihter. It's not just something you show up to and win on your first try. Try to understand the extreme amount of talent that participates there and evaluate your opinions.
Killcycle
Profile Joined January 2011
United States170 Posts
April 12 2012 01:25 GMT
#183
On April 11 2012 12:16 freakhill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 10:28 Killcycle wrote:
I hate the term Foreigner.


Why?


It's a bit annoying to be called a foreigner to a game produced in your country by your citizens.
I fear not the shadows of glory nor the echoes of eternity; place before me a true rendition of greatness... and then we shall see.
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
April 12 2012 01:32 GMT
#184
I think incorporating Koreans into foreign teams should help in terms of practice habits and regiments. Probably could also use some coaches. Given how much money there is in the foreign tournament scene, surely there'd be enough money in terms of player development. Otherwise, I can't see how one can reduce the Korean vs Foreigner gap in the near future.

On April 12 2012 10:25 Killcycle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 12:16 freakhill wrote:
On April 11 2012 10:28 Killcycle wrote:
I hate the term Foreigner.


Why?


It's a bit annoying to be called a foreigner to a game produced in your country by your citizens.


It's just easier than to write non-Koreans.
Meh
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-12 03:11:14
April 12 2012 03:08 GMT
#185
do soccer players or musicians play for money? or do they do it because they love it, and try to make a living off of it if possible.
other responsibilities and/or market availability will force their decision but their passion comes before their need for money.

so talks of "foreigners have no chance of winning so why would they continue" i dont think is a legitimate excuse, an excuse but not legitimate enough to earn sympathy.

foreign teams NEED korean coach/players in their environment. look at all pro sports, such as korean football using dutch coaches and american speed skating using korean coaches. as a stepping stone for further improvement. (many teams are obviously doing this, not to win but to improve)
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-12 03:11:18
April 12 2012 03:10 GMT
#186
Everyone wants to hear a good story.

On April 12 2012 12:08 jinorazi wrote:
do soccer players or musicians play for money? or do they do it because they love it, and try to make a living off of it if possible.
other responsibilities and/or market availability will force their decision but their passion comes before their need for money.

so talks of "foreigners have no chance of winning so why would they continue" i dont think is a legitimate excuse, an excuse but not legitimate, enough to earn sympathy.

foreign teams NEED korean coach/players in their environment. look at all pro sports, such as korean football using dutch coaches and american speed skating using korean coaches. as a stepping stone for further improvement. (many teams are obviously doing this, not to win but to improve)


What they need is better discipline. -__-
ppshchik
Profile Joined September 2010
United States862 Posts
April 12 2012 03:21 GMT
#187
How can the cash cow continue to feed the Koreans if they beat the cow to death? They know foreign tournaments will die if the Koreans keep winning them.
Legends never die... they end up working in McDonalds.
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-12 03:24:04
April 12 2012 03:22 GMT
#188
On April 12 2012 12:10 StarStruck wrote:
Everyone wants to hear a good story.

Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 12:08 jinorazi wrote:
do soccer players or musicians play for money? or do they do it because they love it, and try to make a living off of it if possible.
other responsibilities and/or market availability will force their decision but their passion comes before their need for money.

so talks of "foreigners have no chance of winning so why would they continue" i dont think is a legitimate excuse, an excuse but not legitimate, enough to earn sympathy.

foreign teams NEED korean coach/players in their environment. look at all pro sports, such as korean football using dutch coaches and american speed skating using korean coaches. as a stepping stone for further improvement. (many teams are obviously doing this, not to win but to improve)


What they need is better discipline. -__-


or coach(one who can 'bitch slap' players that needs it, or with...love/care?), to put it simply.
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
Derity
Profile Joined May 2009
Germany2952 Posts
April 12 2012 03:28 GMT
#189
fully agree with the person above. all pro sports (or even life) depends on coaching/mentoring.
boxturtle
Profile Joined December 2011
United States224 Posts
April 12 2012 03:35 GMT
#190
On April 11 2012 21:40 tymt wrote:
good thing naniwa will win code s season 2 then.


I can see him getting out of his group ez-pz. I mean look at it, it's 2 people who should be in code B and Puzzle. Naniwa should get out easily. I like both Ryung and MVP, but they're not anywhere near Naniwa's level at the moment, I don't see MVP even staying in code A next season. However, the rest of the tournament is pretty difficult. Oz, Parting, Hero, Genius all have pretty sick PvPs any of them can end his run as soon as the first thing goes wrong.
aznball123
Profile Joined February 2012
2759 Posts
April 12 2012 03:35 GMT
#191
Koreans are always mannered and if a foreigner wins, sc2 would get more known throughout the world.
Mmm, what to watch.
CursivE
Profile Joined February 2012
Australia317 Posts
April 12 2012 03:54 GMT
#192
On April 12 2012 12:35 boxturtle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 21:40 tymt wrote:
good thing naniwa will win code s season 2 then.


I can see him getting out of his group ez-pz. I mean look at it, it's 2 people who should be in code B and Puzzle. Naniwa should get out easily. I like both Ryung and MVP, but they're not anywhere near Naniwa's level at the moment, I don't see MVP even staying in code A next season. However, the rest of the tournament is pretty difficult. Oz, Parting, Hero, Genius all have pretty sick PvPs any of them can end his run as soon as the first thing goes wrong.


I think you may be overstating Nani's abilities just a tad. I think it will be a major accomplishment just to get out of that group. Saying MVP and Ryung should be in code B... I'm not sure I agree with you there. If MVP is healthy he is a monster. I think you're being harsh on Ryung, although TvP is his worst match up.

I'm hoping that a foreigner steps up and really competes with the Koreans soon, but I'm not pinning my hopes on Naniwa.
MC || HuK || MMA || Squirtle || TLO || Sea || HerO || MarineKing || MVP || NesTea
zefreak
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States2731 Posts
April 12 2012 06:13 GMT
#193
On April 12 2012 12:35 boxturtle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 21:40 tymt wrote:
good thing naniwa will win code s season 2 then.


I can see him getting out of his group ez-pz. I mean look at it, it's 2 people who should be in code B and Puzzle. Naniwa should get out easily. I like both Ryung and MVP, but they're not anywhere near Naniwa's level at the moment, I don't see MVP even staying in code A next season. However, the rest of the tournament is pretty difficult. Oz, Parting, Hero, Genius all have pretty sick PvPs any of them can end his run as soon as the first thing goes wrong.


Are you serious? Mvp got straight back into Code S this season and beat some pretty good players to do so.
www.gosu-sc.com - Starcraft News, Strategy and Merchandise
Ownos
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2147 Posts
April 12 2012 06:14 GMT
#194
Who doesn't like to cheer for an underdog.
...deeper and deeper into the bowels of El Diablo
Inflicted
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia18228 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-12 06:17:56
April 12 2012 06:17 GMT
#195
On April 12 2012 15:13 zefreak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 12:35 boxturtle wrote:
On April 11 2012 21:40 tymt wrote:
good thing naniwa will win code s season 2 then.


I can see him getting out of his group ez-pz. I mean look at it, it's 2 people who should be in code B and Puzzle. Naniwa should get out easily. I like both Ryung and MVP, but they're not anywhere near Naniwa's level at the moment, I don't see MVP even staying in code A next season. However, the rest of the tournament is pretty difficult. Oz, Parting, Hero, Genius all have pretty sick PvPs any of them can end his run as soon as the first thing goes wrong.


Are you serious? Mvp got straight back into Code S this season and beat some pretty good players to do so.


2-1 Sniper... some pretty good players?
Liquipedia"Expert"
boxturtle
Profile Joined December 2011
United States224 Posts
April 12 2012 06:33 GMT
#196
On April 12 2012 15:17 Inflicted_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 15:13 zefreak wrote:
On April 12 2012 12:35 boxturtle wrote:
On April 11 2012 21:40 tymt wrote:
good thing naniwa will win code s season 2 then.


I can see him getting out of his group ez-pz. I mean look at it, it's 2 people who should be in code B and Puzzle. Naniwa should get out easily. I like both Ryung and MVP, but they're not anywhere near Naniwa's level at the moment, I don't see MVP even staying in code A next season. However, the rest of the tournament is pretty difficult. Oz, Parting, Hero, Genius all have pretty sick PvPs any of them can end his run as soon as the first thing goes wrong.


Are you serious? Mvp got straight back into Code S this season and beat some pretty good players to do so.


2-1 Sniper... some pretty good players?


This and IdrA recently making him look like a noob. Also, those games v gumiho last season showed exactly how far he's fallen. His control is nothing impressive due to his wrist problems, and losing to a bunch of landed vikings 3 games in 1 day shows his strategic skill has fallen off greatly.
Meridian.
Profile Joined February 2012
United States7 Posts
April 12 2012 06:34 GMT
#197
They know that if the foreigner community continues to post lackluster results and continues falling behind in skill then the foreigner market is going to continue to fade.
Veldril
Profile Joined August 2010
Thailand1817 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-12 06:37:58
April 12 2012 06:37 GMT
#198
On April 12 2012 15:33 boxturtle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 15:17 Inflicted_ wrote:
On April 12 2012 15:13 zefreak wrote:
On April 12 2012 12:35 boxturtle wrote:
On April 11 2012 21:40 tymt wrote:
good thing naniwa will win code s season 2 then.


I can see him getting out of his group ez-pz. I mean look at it, it's 2 people who should be in code B and Puzzle. Naniwa should get out easily. I like both Ryung and MVP, but they're not anywhere near Naniwa's level at the moment, I don't see MVP even staying in code A next season. However, the rest of the tournament is pretty difficult. Oz, Parting, Hero, Genius all have pretty sick PvPs any of them can end his run as soon as the first thing goes wrong.


Are you serious? Mvp got straight back into Code S this season and beat some pretty good players to do so.


2-1 Sniper... some pretty good players?


This and IdrA recently making him look like a noob. Also, those games v gumiho last season showed exactly how far he's fallen. His control is nothing impressive due to his wrist problems, and losing to a bunch of landed vikings 3 games in 1 day shows his strategic skill has fallen off greatly.


Yeah, it pains me to see him play badly because of the injury. Sigh, I wish he could get a surgery like Flash did but that would cost a fortune... Or maybe he needs to use his "GSL Saving" to pay for that.

On the other hand, he might not want to undergoes a surgery because he would have an excuse for not going to a military (well at least in Thailand if you are injured like that you can avoid conscription).
Without love, we can't see anything. Without love, the truth can't be seen. - Umineko no Naku Koro Ni
Leimus
Profile Joined October 2011
72 Posts
April 12 2012 06:38 GMT
#199
It's not that weird to me that some Koreans want foreigners to win tournaments. Just think it for a bit that there was some sports or activity that was somewhat global, but certain one country always wins everything related to it. It's far more boring even for the winning country compared to a situation where the competition is evenly distributed among the part taking countries.

It's also a direct link to the financial success. The more global interest there is, the better the sports fare. It'd be totally weird if the korean pro gamers didn't wish for foreigners to do well. It's also totally reasonable that they still strive for winning.
Big-t
Profile Joined January 2011
Austria1350 Posts
April 12 2012 06:39 GMT
#200
I gess foreigners also want to win.^^
monchi | IdrA | Flash
mongmong
Profile Joined November 2011
Korea (South)1389 Posts
April 12 2012 06:55 GMT
#201
LOL

I really don't see naniwa getting out of the group.

we'll see
어헣 ↗ 어헣 ↗
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10321 Posts
April 12 2012 06:59 GMT
#202
On April 10 2012 08:28 Timurid wrote:
Tired of facing the same people lol.


I never actually thought about this o.o If you're in GSL Code S, you only play the usual 31 people over and over. Some variation but most of them are the same and you probably meet them on ladder as well (maybe you don't know it's them, but on one of their many "smurf" accounts lol). Even with people dropping out of Code S, it's still very slow finding new people to play against.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
icclown
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Denmark270 Posts
April 12 2012 07:19 GMT
#203
On April 10 2012 09:27 AgentChaos wrote:
THEY LIED!!



We're the laughing stock of South Korea... (we = rest of the world)
He who controls the past commands the future, He who commands the future, conquers the past. BUFFER INTO GG
etrensce
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia337 Posts
April 12 2012 07:35 GMT
#204
On April 12 2012 12:35 boxturtle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 21:40 tymt wrote:
good thing naniwa will win code s season 2 then.


I can see him getting out of his group ez-pz. I mean look at it, it's 2 people who should be in code B and Puzzle. Naniwa should get out easily. I like both Ryung and MVP, but they're not anywhere near Naniwa's level at the moment, I don't see MVP even staying in code A next season. However, the rest of the tournament is pretty difficult. Oz, Parting, Hero, Genius all have pretty sick PvPs any of them can end his run as soon as the first thing goes wrong.

I think naniwa should be in code b as well by that standard.
If life gives you lemons, burn lifes house down
MetalSlug
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany443 Posts
April 12 2012 07:35 GMT
#205
On April 12 2012 10:25 Killcycle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 12:16 freakhill wrote:
On April 11 2012 10:28 Killcycle wrote:
I hate the term Foreigner.


Why?


It's a bit annoying to be called a foreigner to a game produced in your country by your citizens.


It is generally accepted that Korea is the land of Starcraft. So we as a community who doesnt life in the land of Bw and Esports started to call ourself foreigners because Starcraft has always been a Korea vs the world thing.
Most people here have been long time Broodwar fans before they got interrested (or not) in SCII.
We closely watched Idra being a foreigner in korea trying to be succesfull and we always felt like foreigners to country that broadcasts videogqmes on TV.
If you are annoyed by the fact that this comunity has accepted that Korea is infact the land of Starcraft than TL might not be the rightnplace for you.
MKP | Maru | Nada | Boxer | Supernova | Keen
mage36
Profile Joined May 2011
415 Posts
April 12 2012 07:39 GMT
#206
yea... doubt players were thinking as deep as sponsorships and stuff when being interviewed. they were just probably being nice.
CarelessPride
Profile Joined March 2011
United States146 Posts
April 12 2012 07:41 GMT
#207
LOL so those comments represent the whole korean population eh?
Aterons_toss
Profile Joined February 2011
Romania1275 Posts
April 12 2012 07:51 GMT
#208
They might be getting worried about tournaments such as IPL being 92% Koreans since the groups, they might be the better players but i doubt that a foreign audience as big as the ones we have now, even more... an audience that we "dream" to achieve in 2-3 years, would really go there if every tournaments get to be Korean only, simply cuz its kinda hard to "relate" to them due to the difference in culture/language to which you add the fact that many of them are kinda socially awkward/childish ( literally... Leenok is around 17 and MKP 18 ) which really "shows" when they are on a stage in front of 5k people.
You really need those Stephano, Incontrol, Idra. Goody, Gruby... etc that are able to actually give 10 minute interviews in which they talk fluently and about diverse subjects and to climb on the stage and raise a trophy without starting to cry and dance. The koreans are dumb, they realize that, they realize that the foreign audience are cheering for the foreigners... and if you got no foreigner left you go back to the broodwar stage where you had Kespa... ether you work in one of there team 14 hours a day or go play Mobas... Im not sure if anyone wants that, but it seems like its "heading" that way.
A good strategy means leaving your opponent room to make mistakes
Zerg.Zilla
Profile Joined February 2012
Hungary5029 Posts
April 12 2012 08:04 GMT
#209
Yeah they are just beaing nice and polite..nothing new.
(•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) ~Keep calm and inject Larva~
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1685 Posts
April 12 2012 08:23 GMT
#210
On April 12 2012 16:35 etrensce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 12:35 boxturtle wrote:
On April 11 2012 21:40 tymt wrote:
good thing naniwa will win code s season 2 then.


I can see him getting out of his group ez-pz. I mean look at it, it's 2 people who should be in code B and Puzzle. Naniwa should get out easily. I like both Ryung and MVP, but they're not anywhere near Naniwa's level at the moment, I don't see MVP even staying in code A next season. However, the rest of the tournament is pretty difficult. Oz, Parting, Hero, Genius all have pretty sick PvPs any of them can end his run as soon as the first thing goes wrong.

I think naniwa should be in code b as well by that standard.

Yeah... it baffles me that people are still saying "[foreigner name] for code S" and all that stuff. It's not going to happen, there is no way in hell that any of them could conceivably win. It isn't a realistic goal atm.
EleGant[AoV]
JiYan
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3668 Posts
April 12 2012 08:26 GMT
#211
its a valid fear... people like seeing foreigners win
tymt
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden293 Posts
April 12 2012 08:26 GMT
#212
On April 12 2012 17:23 ImbaTosS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 16:35 etrensce wrote:
On April 12 2012 12:35 boxturtle wrote:
On April 11 2012 21:40 tymt wrote:
good thing naniwa will win code s season 2 then.


I can see him getting out of his group ez-pz. I mean look at it, it's 2 people who should be in code B and Puzzle. Naniwa should get out easily. I like both Ryung and MVP, but they're not anywhere near Naniwa's level at the moment, I don't see MVP even staying in code A next season. However, the rest of the tournament is pretty difficult. Oz, Parting, Hero, Genius all have pretty sick PvPs any of them can end his run as soon as the first thing goes wrong.

I think naniwa should be in code b as well by that standard.

Yeah... it baffles me that people are still saying "[foreigner name] for code S" and all that stuff. It's not going to happen, there is no way in hell that any of them could conceivably win. It isn't a realistic goal atm.

Faith is stronger than reason
SoundProof
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden99 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-12 10:31:49
April 12 2012 08:59 GMT
#213
Well the fact of the matter is that it's true that the scene needs more foreign players going far in tourneys. I've seen some of my friends that I introduced to SC2 slowly fade away from the esports. Even though great play is awesome, people also need something to relate to, just imagine how much harder it is to introduce SC2 than when I could say there's a "insert nationality" player doing really well and you should cheer for him.
"Jag är för stark helt enkelt"
Silidons
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2813 Posts
April 12 2012 09:01 GMT
#214
On April 10 2012 08:41 calgar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 08:36 `Zapdos wrote:
On April 10 2012 08:33 Leftwing wrote:
Wouldn't it be ironic if Koreans dominate the scene for the next 2-3 years, and then all of a sudden the first bonjwa of SC2 happens to be a foreigner? Calling it now.


The way the game is set up there probably won't ever be an sc2 bonjwa and goddamnit i wish people would stop using the term
Oh come on, isn't it a little early in the game's life to be predicting that there won't ever be one? How long was it until one came around in BW - 3 years? We're seeing way better marine micro, splitting, and multitasking than we did 6-12 months ago. I would agree with you if the metagame was stagnant but I think there's at least a chance. There aren't any S class players (in their primes) playing SC2 anyways so there is a lot of talent potential if a switch did occur, not saying that it will or ever. bonjwa bonjwa

I think the idea of a foreign bonjwa is highly appealing though, and equally unlikely.

not sure if we're watching the same games really
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon Bonaparte
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
April 12 2012 10:19 GMT
#215
On April 12 2012 18:01 Silidons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 08:41 calgar wrote:
On April 10 2012 08:36 `Zapdos wrote:
On April 10 2012 08:33 Leftwing wrote:
Wouldn't it be ironic if Koreans dominate the scene for the next 2-3 years, and then all of a sudden the first bonjwa of SC2 happens to be a foreigner? Calling it now.


The way the game is set up there probably won't ever be an sc2 bonjwa and goddamnit i wish people would stop using the term
Oh come on, isn't it a little early in the game's life to be predicting that there won't ever be one? How long was it until one came around in BW - 3 years? We're seeing way better marine micro, splitting, and multitasking than we did 6-12 months ago. I would agree with you if the metagame was stagnant but I think there's at least a chance. There aren't any S class players (in their primes) playing SC2 anyways so there is a lot of talent potential if a switch did occur, not saying that it will or ever. bonjwa bonjwa

I think the idea of a foreign bonjwa is highly appealing though, and equally unlikely.

not sure if we're watching the same games really


yeah. Also, when BW started, people didn't know how to play RTS properly, people would spend tons of actions microing to save a few units while they could have build many more units if they had macro well instead.

It took a little long in BW, because people had to learn how to play and RTS, and also because maps did not allow for huge macro games with action everywhere. Hell, for the first 5 years BW maps didn't even have a proper natural !

When SC2 was released, it was played on maps that had those clearly defined natural and thirds, and at top level it was played by former BW / WC3 pros. There should not be a single delay.
ॐ
Assirra
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium4169 Posts
April 12 2012 10:29 GMT
#216
On April 12 2012 18:01 Silidons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 08:41 calgar wrote:
On April 10 2012 08:36 `Zapdos wrote:
On April 10 2012 08:33 Leftwing wrote:
Wouldn't it be ironic if Koreans dominate the scene for the next 2-3 years, and then all of a sudden the first bonjwa of SC2 happens to be a foreigner? Calling it now.


The way the game is set up there probably won't ever be an sc2 bonjwa and goddamnit i wish people would stop using the term
Oh come on, isn't it a little early in the game's life to be predicting that there won't ever be one? How long was it until one came around in BW - 3 years? We're seeing way better marine micro, splitting, and multitasking than we did 6-12 months ago. I would agree with you if the metagame was stagnant but I think there's at least a chance. There aren't any S class players (in their primes) playing SC2 anyways so there is a lot of talent potential if a switch did occur, not saying that it will or ever. bonjwa bonjwa

I think the idea of a foreign bonjwa is highly appealing though, and equally unlikely.

not sure if we're watching the same games really

Are you you honestly saying that didn't improve in a year?
StoRm_res
Profile Joined March 2011
Switzerland891 Posts
April 12 2012 10:41 GMT
#217
Of course they want foreigners to compete better, they know most of the money in sc2 comes from foreign companies. To keep the game interesting for foreign spectators, we need successful foreign players. If not, the rest of the world will lose interest in sc2, which will lead to way less money in sc2
Waterflow
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1550 Posts
April 12 2012 10:53 GMT
#218
On April 12 2012 19:41 StoRm_res wrote:
Of course they want foreigners to compete better, they know most of the money in sc2 comes from foreign companies. To keep the game interesting for foreign spectators, we need successful foreign players. If not, the rest of the world will lose interest in sc2, which will lead to way less money in sc2


Im sure there are some korean pro's (although very few) that genuinely want's foreigners to do good but the majority i feel say so just to get more fans/fame/viewers etc.. Wich ofcourse leads to earning more money because of the newly attracted fans who will watch their stream.

Nothing wrong wanting money though. ^^ But ofcourse it can feel a little bit phony saying things you don't mean.
NeMeSiS3
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Canada2972 Posts
April 12 2012 11:06 GMT
#219
On April 10 2012 09:26 jinorazi wrote:
i'm sure everyone wants to move away from the bw stigma (white people suck)
except whitera, he beat boxer *nod*


Note that's when boxer was barely a B team level pro though... maybe not even that.
FoTG fighting!
Waterflow
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1550 Posts
April 12 2012 11:34 GMT
#220
On April 12 2012 15:55 mongmong wrote:
LOL

I really don't see naniwa getting out of the group.

we'll see


I don't know if that really belongs in this thread.
StoRm_res
Profile Joined March 2011
Switzerland891 Posts
April 12 2012 12:04 GMT
#221
On April 12 2012 19:53 Waterflow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 19:41 StoRm_res wrote:
Of course they want foreigners to compete better, they know most of the money in sc2 comes from foreign companies. To keep the game interesting for foreign spectators, we need successful foreign players. If not, the rest of the world will lose interest in sc2, which will lead to way less money in sc2


Im sure there are some korean pro's (although very few) that genuinely want's foreigners to do good but the majority i feel say so just to get more fans/fame/viewers etc.. Wich ofcourse leads to earning more money because of the newly attracted fans who will watch their stream.

Nothing wrong wanting money though. ^^ But ofcourse it can feel a little bit phony saying things you don't mean.

I don't necessary meant it as a bad thing. Everyone wants starcraft 2 to grow, and to do so we need the foreigners to catch up before it is too late.
Cloudsong
Profile Joined October 2010
Luxembourg69 Posts
April 12 2012 12:05 GMT
#222
On April 10 2012 08:30 BlackJack wrote:
It's like a reverse Linsanity

hahah
GG
Waterflow
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1550 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-12 12:14:13
April 12 2012 12:14 GMT
#223
Personally i would get sick and tired of swedes winning every single tournament out there if for example Sweden was as successfull as South-Korea is at SC2.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-12 23:26:44
April 12 2012 23:26 GMT
#224
On April 12 2012 12:22 jinorazi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 12:10 StarStruck wrote:
Everyone wants to hear a good story.

On April 12 2012 12:08 jinorazi wrote:
do soccer players or musicians play for money? or do they do it because they love it, and try to make a living off of it if possible.
other responsibilities and/or market availability will force their decision but their passion comes before their need for money.

so talks of "foreigners have no chance of winning so why would they continue" i dont think is a legitimate excuse, an excuse but not legitimate, enough to earn sympathy.

foreign teams NEED korean coach/players in their environment. look at all pro sports, such as korean football using dutch coaches and american speed skating using korean coaches. as a stepping stone for further improvement. (many teams are obviously doing this, not to win but to improve)


What they need is better discipline. -__-


or coach(one who can 'bitch slap' players that needs it, or with...love/care?), to put it simply.


I'm not coming back. Not going to happen.

I was talking about discipline as an innate quality opposed to the taught discipline.
Fall.182
Profile Joined September 2010
United States126 Posts
April 13 2012 02:31 GMT
#225
On April 11 2012 23:24 Waterflow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 22:04 mememolly wrote:
some of the new guys/girls if they put in work could threaten the korean domination, people like Scarlett illusion etc but the old guard, idra incontrol huk thorzain naniwa etc haven't got a chance imo otherwise they would have proven themselves by now


I guess you know everything about GSL since you've been there so many times and practiced there. Right? You clearly have no clue.

There's koreans practicing just as hard as these foreign players you mentioned who haven't been able to do well in Code-S eihter. It's not just something you show up to and win on your first try. Try to understand the extreme amount of talent that participates there and evaluate your opinions.


@mememolly plus illusion is korean
rstar
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada6 Posts
April 13 2012 15:31 GMT
#226
There is no doubt that North American and Europeans fans want to watch players from their own areas. With them struggling to to get to the top 16 of these major tournaments I think its inevitable that viewership will drop unless something changes.
blue cheese
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
April 13 2012 17:57 GMT
#227
On April 13 2012 08:26 StarStruck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2012 12:22 jinorazi wrote:
On April 12 2012 12:10 StarStruck wrote:
Everyone wants to hear a good story.

On April 12 2012 12:08 jinorazi wrote:
do soccer players or musicians play for money? or do they do it because they love it, and try to make a living off of it if possible.
other responsibilities and/or market availability will force their decision but their passion comes before their need for money.

so talks of "foreigners have no chance of winning so why would they continue" i dont think is a legitimate excuse, an excuse but not legitimate, enough to earn sympathy.

foreign teams NEED korean coach/players in their environment. look at all pro sports, such as korean football using dutch coaches and american speed skating using korean coaches. as a stepping stone for further improvement. (many teams are obviously doing this, not to win but to improve)


What they need is better discipline. -__-


or coach(one who can 'bitch slap' players that needs it, or with...love/care?), to put it simply.


I'm not coming back. Not going to happen.

I was talking about discipline as an innate quality opposed to the taught discipline.


and how are you going to impose that when its a cultural thing? korea's recent half a century success is largely by the individual's focus on hardwork, its a cultural phenomenon, how are you going to install this mindset in a different society, or even to a single person?

you're saying foreigners lack discipline yet it can't be taught. with that said do we wait helplessly for newer generation of players that grows up with discipline? at any case, those with discipline will come up on top regardless of being taught or not. those take this game as their career and life will do better than those who take it as a hobby and fun.
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