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On April 08 2012 22:23 Chaosu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 18:53 bblack wrote:My point is, here in Europe everyone can get into college if you are intelligent enough and want to. You don't need to have money to back it up, and there are more than enough spots for everyone. If that is not the case, then it might be more tempting to pursue a career in gaming, if there is enough money to be gained by doing so. And this is based on what, Netherlands? Here in Poland top universities are pretty hard to get. Yes, if you are genious you can get into the uni but you can't say "everyone intelligent" can. So what does "enough" actually mean? There are more spots for geniuses here too but not enough for every intelligent person. Plus affording studies especially if you have to move out from your home is pretty expensive and many students struggle to do so. So again where in Europe? Because for sure not in whole Europe. Looks like another random assumption but I'm giving you a chance to explain...
Really?
When then I guess I overestimated the more eastern part of Europe. Replace in what I said "Europe" with "western Europe" and you're good to go. Regardless, whether the point is made about Europe, western Europe or just a country, that is not the crux of the point 
I'm sure you understand that.
But I can imagine you might feel offended by my casual but clearly unjustified generation to your homeland.
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Such ignorant and arrogant, repulsive statements get me wound up: "No player in Africa is higher than Diamond". That's like saying no kid in a Brazilian slum is as good at football as someone at a private school in the US. And I too bet 90% of people in the US can't tell you what SC2 is.
People also always make the 3 year old assumption that all of Africa is completely poverty stricken like the charity adverts show you. There are some places in Africa with money and technology, granted though that they are fewer and further between.
I think the reason there are a lack of pros is simply since, yes, more people than not do NOT have access to the net, there are simply less players, and of course less of a community for gaming etc. The reason gaming is big is the conditions are right, if most people cannot afford comps/the net... The conditions necessary to facilitate pro players are simply not there. Someone said it: they have bigger things on their mind.
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I've actually met only 2 Africans in any kind of online games yet (including Poker) and both of them were white South Africans (Boers). Maybe computer games just aren't a part of African youth culture even if they can afford it? Just a guess though, I've never been in Africa.
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On April 08 2012 23:06 Falan wrote:
I've actually met only 2 Africans in any kind of online games yet (including Poker) and both of them were white South Africans (Boers). Maybe computer games just aren't a part of African youth culture even if they can afford it? Just a guess though, I've never been in Africa.
You're wrong. Gaming is just as much of a part of youth culture in South Africa as anywhere else in the world. Of course not everyone in South Africa can afford a computer/console and internet access. But for those that are fortunate enough to be able to, gaming is just as enjoyable. And like anywhere else, a certain percentage of gamers find it enjoyable to treat it as a competitive sport. South Africa has always had a strong competitive scene having hosted atleast 6 WCG qualifiers, about 5 ESWC qualifiers, Kode5 qualifiers, Dreamhack qualifiers, IeSF qualifiers and so forth. In 2003 we hosted 1000man LAN setting the world record for the biggest LAN in the Southern Hemisphere at that time. Our Warcraft III server had at least 10 000 users online playing DotA at almost any given time before the fragmentation with HoN, LoL, etc. Our CS community had about 64 teams that attended big LANs and qualifiers in the CS 1.5, 1.6 days. These days there is a yearly gaming expo with atleast 2000 BYOC lanners, all 2000 tickets sell out a few hours after ticket sale opens. We have a inter school league, not to mention the tens(maybe hundreds) of thousands of casual(and some competitive) console gamers The biggest issue has always been the internet. For the longest time we could not compete with the rest of the world, so our best players could only ever be as good as the best in South Africa. However, since the release of StarCraft II, we have actually been able to compete at an international level, via the European server. Yes our community is smaller. But we are no longer isolated.
tl;dr, Its part of the culture, not everyone can afford it.
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from what i know theres polarfluke or something
Its a -big- tournament in prizepool monthly, some south africans players were doing well
i totally support africa having someone represented, we just need their community to have voice for it too
edit: oh i was just talking about someone who posted before me, hope you have your chance to compete
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On April 08 2012 22:02 iMAniaC wrote:
If I were you, PandaTank, I would write to Blizzard and state that you're a GM on EU who would like to compete and ask which tournament you should enter, seeing as you're a South African. The possible outcomes would be, I guess:
1) They answer that they plan to support as many as possible and that more info will be provided later - in which you case you have to sit tight and wait for information. Possibly remind them in a month or so if nothing new has been announced.
2) They answer that they'll arrange for you to join ESL's Other European Countries Tournament, in which case you can do that.
3) They answer that they don't plan to support Africa, in which case you can report back and perhaps we can manage a proper nerd rage together to make them change their minds.
I think it would also be a good idea for other South African players to ask Blizz how they should participate in the Global Championship (so that they see that there are in fact a huge number of people in Africa who want to compete). My best suggestion would be to politely ask them how, with an implicit understanding that you are in fact going to be able to compete, seeing as they promised other nationals to get their chance, but at the same time state your concerns that you've been forgotten on the basis that your continent as a whole has not been mentioned whatsoever and that it is not obvious at all how you are going to compete, as opposed to the rest of the world who has had their continent mentioned in passing, if nothing else.
If none of that works, perhaps the SC2 community could hold an unofficial qualifier for Africans, in protest, and then when the champion is crowned, we could again demand that he (or she) gets a seed to the Championships.
So Pandatank, what say you?
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On April 07 2012 09:15 DashedHopes wrote:
to be honest i bet at least 3/4 of their country doesn't even know what starcraft 2 is.
This is probably true and the reason why Starcraft isn't played there.
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it isnt part of South African culture because the white supremacists occupied it and humiliated my african brothers
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On April 09 2012 03:24 Xann wrote:
it isnt part of South African culture because the white supremacists occupied it and humiliated my african brothers
It says your from America, therefore they aren't you African brothers.
Oh and your sentences don't make sense, They are just promoting your ignorance towards our country.
Another thing is that America had slavery, you can say that this humiliated your brothers, but seeing as you have probably never visited South Africa, you cannot say they are your brothers,
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On April 09 2012 07:48 snakeyezz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 03:24 Xann wrote:
it isnt part of South African culture because the white supremacists occupied it and humiliated my african brothers It says your from America, therefore they aren't you African brothers. Oh and your sentences don't make sense, They are just promoting your ignorance towards our country. Another thing is that America had slavery, you can say that this humiliated your brothers, but seeing as you have probably never visited South Africa, you cannot say they are your brothers,
all africans are my brothers. i am african. i am ashamed of the white man's past
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On April 08 2012 22:51 Arghnews wrote:
Such ignorant and arrogant, repulsive statements get me wound up: "No player in Africa is higher than Diamond". That's like saying no kid in a Brazilian slum is as good at football as someone at a private school in the US. And I too bet 90% of people in the US can't tell you what SC2 is.
People also always make the 3 year old assumption that all of Africa is completely poverty stricken like the charity adverts show you. There are some places in Africa with money and technology, granted though that they are fewer and further between.
I think the reason there are a lack of pros is simply since, yes, more people than not do NOT have access to the net, there are simply less players, and of course less of a community for gaming etc. The reason gaming is big is the conditions are right, if most people cannot afford comps/the net... The conditions necessary to facilitate pro players are simply not there. Someone said it: they have bigger things on their mind.
You are comparing two completely different things. Football is an essential part of Brazillian culture. Poor kids in the slums play pick-up soccer in the street everyday. Its a way of life, and it shows in their world-class players and great national team. Starcraft, on the other hand, is probably known by fewer than 1% of Brazillians. And I'd say that less than 5% of Americans know what Starcraft is. I don't know how that statement offends you.
Africa is vastly very poor. Most people live in villages where there is not even running water. Why these people would want to spend their lives playing a videogame, which they have never heard of and require massive amounts of money to set up, to hopefully make a living, is beyond me. Sports, and I mean real, physical sports, are really the only way out of poverty. Look at the many professional African athelets today: Drogba, Adebayor, Yaya Toura, Kolo Toura, Kalou, Moses, Pinaar, Eto'o, etc. The list is huge. Just watch the EPL or the La Liga, there are huge amounts of Africans. And frankly, they probably make about 10x what Nestea or MVP makes (at least). I'm sorry, but there is absoultly no incentive for poor Africans to play Starcraft as a way out of poverty.
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Enter a BUNCH of fallacious "dark continent" bullshit. This thread is really embarrassing, TL.
I was in South Africa in January. I played starcraft with South Africans. That being said, SA is the economic powerhouse of sub-Saharan Africa, and less than 20% of the population has reasonable access to internet within their homes. Among the wealthy that do have access, I can't really say why competitive starcraft hasn't produced any decent players. I can say from first hand experience that the gaming culture of the youth in Johannesburg is pretty damn vibrant. Maybe EU players can comment, since they play on their servers?
I swear that if someone refers to the whole continent of Africa as if it was a single, one dimensional, developing country one more time I'll blow a gasket. This community is well above that kind of blatant stupidity.
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Yes a lot of people in Africa live a normal life, but on an average they just live worse soo it just makes less sense to invest there and SC 2 isn't even popular in Africa.
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You need money for colleage.
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I know some players from SA whose in Masters, im from Namiba (in Africa) and im high Diamond playing against low Masters. South African players just prefer FPS games, Lans with beer and brandy, RTS is not a mainstream thing, unless you live in korea lol.
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On April 09 2012 13:31 robopork wrote:
Enter a BUNCH of fallacious "dark continent" bullshit. This thread is really embarrassing, TL.
I was in South Africa in January. I played starcraft with South Africans. That being said, SA is the economic powerhouse of sub-Saharan Africa, and less than 20% of the population has reasonable access to internet within their homes. Among the wealthy that do have access, I can't really say why competitive starcraft hasn't produced any decent players. I can say from first hand experience that the gaming culture of the youth in Johannesburg is pretty damn vibrant. Maybe EU players can comment, since they play on their servers?
I swear that if someone refers to the whole continent of Africa as if it was a single, one dimensional, developing country one more time I'll blow a gasket. This community is well above that kind of blatant stupidity.
I normally ask people who they are and where they live after my ladder games, but I have never ever had someone tell me that they are from Africa. Most of the people on our servers are like Netherlands, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Norway... The majority of our players are from there and the rest are Europeans from other countries. Now thats only personal experience, but as far as I know there aren't any major LANs in Africa to indicate that there is a large enough community there.
The main point being Africa as a continent has less players than some European countries and that is for obvious reasons bad.
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There is ignorance, but you guys also have to realize why this is, and not totally slam the people who think that Africa is a nation of poverty.
When certain media(such as TV) stop broadcasting commericals that show starving African kids in tears and asking for sponsorship. When people see stuff like this, it continues to perpetuate the wrongful stereotype of the starving Ethopian.
In fact just a few days ago I had this fella come to my door. I thought at first he was a courier based on his clothing(which I bet, was the whole idea), then soon as he opened his mouth and pulled out the groan-worthy pamplet(you know, the typical one where they show a starving African kid right smack in the center). I immediately told him NO, and shut the door in his face. Was I being cold hearted? No.
Talk to anyone who's come from South Africa and inquire about all these commericals. They'll just smile and probably have a little snigger about it. All the money donated doesn't go anywhere but the marketing firms putting out those commercials. It's not completely a sham, but it's damn close.
So let's not be so harsh on people who don't know any better. They are not gonna suddenly go Google Africa or Ethopia. They just don't care to do it...it doesn't affect their life in the slightest. Many people also don't realize that many areas in Afghanistan is nothing like what they show you in US news. In fact many of these areas are NOT constantly patrolled by the Taliban or some military presence. It will shock some of you for me to say this, but you know what? They're not much different from your town or my town.
Long story short, it's the media that's responsible for showing us these wrongful images of what the rest of the world looks like. Africa is in fact a very rich country in many areas. They have access to Internet speeds which are the equal, if not better, than everywhere else in the world.
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@Xann: Either poor troll, or you are one of the stereotypical images we have of how stupid Americans are. Though you aren't the only one helping out this image in this thread.
For those talking about investing in an African server, or investing in Africa in general for the sake of Starcraft 2, for what reason is this? I don't see anyone asking for such things. It's not a requirement to invest in Africa for us to have a qualifier.
@D_K_night: Yes, how we are ever so grateful to the all powerful America for making us believe such things!
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Okay I'll set things straight here, the reason is simply that Africa is the poorest continent in the world, it is extremely difficulty to have electricity in Africa, let alone a computer, let alone a fast internet connection required to play starcraft 2. I live in south africa, probably one of the most, if not the most developed country in africa and still my internet is 384kb/s which is very very slow. It also costs huge amounts to be able to sustain an internet connection, because you have to pay for bandwidth. Simply put, most people in africa are working class or poorer, starcraft 2 and gaming requires a lot of spare funds therefore you must be at least lower middle class to be able to play PC or other console games. PLUS there are no civil funds provided to those who are without jobs etc, unlike in somewhere in europe, where you could for example be sustained with a relatively good income allowing you to have a computer, some games and an internet connection. I highly doubt there is any racial difference or cultural difference, just a financial CLASS difference.
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Much of africa is totally broke why would blizzard bother for a few corrupt insiders who control all weath in these countries kids? You're either really rich in Africa or really poor not much middle class ppl to buy your games or have time to spend on them. sux but just business. you go to where you can make money. That's Asia and the West with large middle class and thier kids.
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EPT
