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On April 07 2012 09:15 DashedHopes wrote:
First of all, a lot countries in africa have too much to worry about such as food, shelter, water, and diseases. Electricity is rare to conveniently have to play games, and they are a developing nation, to be honest i bet at least 3/4 of their country doesn't even know what starcraft 2 is.
Africa is not a "nation" nor is it a "country".
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On April 07 2012 09:15 DashedHopes wrote:
First of all, a lot countries in africa have too much to worry about such as food, shelter, water, and diseases. Electricity is rare to conveniently have to play games, and they are a developing nation, to be honest i bet at least 3/4 of their country doesn't even know what starcraft 2 is.
yeah, try like 99/100 dont know
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There are more internet connections in Manhattan than the entire of sub-Saharan Africa.
In countries with post-colonial struggles, the inheritence of infrastructure was a problem because it was either limited in certain nodes or passed on without being useable.
I wont say any more now, but I just wanted to pass those bits of info on  .
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All those people who says Africa its just small huts and animals wandering around, are the same people who says Brazil is only forest and monkeys, lol.
On topic, I would like an Africa Division. It wouldn`t be as many players as Europe but it would be fun to watch! :D
Only by giving everyone a chance, we can see the peace. =]
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On April 08 2012 08:58 gKyoji wrote:
All those people who says Africa its just small huts and animals wandering around, are the same people who says Brazil is only forest and monkeys, lol.
On topic, I would like an Africa Division. It wouldn`t be as many players as Europe but it would be fun to watch! :D
Only by giving everyone a chance, we can see the peace. =]
Hey, I don't know why you aren't proud of your Amazonian monkies. I know I'm very happy to have my own personal pack of beavers. Almost as cool as the grizzly I ride to school.
Anyway, I'd love to see some African representation in this tournament. I know it's unlikely that they'd win too much, but it's not really fair to hype something up as truly global and then exclude an entire continent... and from how I'm reading it, the particularly talented ones can't even go compete in the European bracket, no? That'd be like saying the world's best shotputter can't compete in the Olympics because no one in Namibia cares about the sport so why should the Olympics give a crap?
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On April 07 2012 11:37 PraetorianX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 09:11 bblack wrote:
So, it comes down to this:
I feel like there aren't many African SC players, am I right?
Why is that the case? I don't feel that it's possible to answer this question without going into some really sensitive issues in depth - issues beyond the spectrum of this forum - and possibly stepping on some toes by doing so. So you're not gonna get a good answer to your question - but that doesn't mean there isn't one.
You're implying that they're not smart enough, which is a topic that doesn't need to be taboo because it is so easily discredited. Is the average Korean a GM? Is the average white european a GM? No average person plays pro starcraft 2, so population averages like education and IQ don't matter, since pro-level play will be done by talented outliers. Given that africa is home to millions of people, there will be at least thousands of potential pros there at the tail-end of the bell curve. Culture and infrastructure are the only possible explanations here. Given that high-achieving people of African origin can get into Ivy League institutions and become US Presidents or Astrophysicists, there is absolutely no inherent reason pros can't come out of Africa, black OR white.
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On April 08 2012 03:10 PandaTank wrote:
... I suppose you also think we have ride elephants to work here.
At least on an elephant I would be able to take my toolbox home. My Kangaroo really struggles with the groceries in her pouch.
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Most of the poor villagers in Africa don't even have internet connection, let alone electricity or running water. Starcraft is an expensive videogame ($60). What incentive will they have, to buy a videogame, which they have no means to play because they don't have electricity, and costs $60? Absolutely none. People need to realize that playing Starcraft is NOT a way to make it rich. In fact, only the tip-top players can even support themselves. Compare that to real sports, like soccer, where even the 2nd or 3rd tier players in Europe make much more money than a Nestea or a Flash. I'm sorry, but no one would buy into it.
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Ok just did a quick Google search and found some stats...
"Africans are in the majority, making up 79.5% of the population, while white people and coloured people each make up 9.0% and the Indian/Asian population 2.5%." Source
So that is 11.5% of ~50 million people who live in South Africa, which, lets face it, is the only country in Africa that has any chance of being involved in anything electronic. Out of that eleven percent probably 1000 people bought SC2, create a whole new division just to support that 1000 people who you are assuming even know what is going on in the community??? Doesn't sound like a smart business move for anyone...
So, it comes down to this:
I feel like there aren't many African SC players, am I right?
Why is that the case?
You are right. Why? The country isn't really developed enough to have those types of people buying those types of things and getting involved in those sort of activities.
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On April 07 2012 18:56 bblack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 11:44 EngrishTeacher wrote:On April 07 2012 09:11 bblack wrote:
With the StarCraft II World Championship Series being announced there have been many questions about the way the world gets divided into 5 continents. Although most people are commenting on Asia-related divisions, to me the most remarkable observation lies in there not being an African continent representative.
While I follow the pro scene quite fanatically and am well aware that there aren't any African pro players, it did get me wondering.
I always figured that SC (and other skill / practice related professions like break-dancing) has grown so large in Korea because it's very difficult to develop a school and work career over there. Even if you're smart, you might have difficulty of being successful.
Then I imagine that the same goes for a lot of less developed countries in, for example, Africa. If you can make a living by becoming successful in SC, as it is right now, why don't any Africans seem to go train full time as a career path?
Is it something to do with technology and internet being unavailable, or lack of teams to support starting pro's, or just ignorance of the possibility, or.. ?
Looking at previous posts, there is some SC action going on in South Afrika, but that does overall seem to be the most 'western' country of the continent anyway.
So, it comes down to this:
I feel like there aren't many African SC players, am I right?
Why is that the case? ![[image loading]](http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01956/dadaab-weighing_1956687i.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/185/168/misc-jackie-chan-l.png) I am fully aware of TL's harsh policy on replying with pictures, especially with memes. However, in your case, good sir, I feel they are quite appropriate. User was warned for this post While I appreciate your enthusiasm in replying, I feel like your view of Africa might be a bit lopsided. Not everybody has to live in a box and walk 20 miles to get water, but the more developed countries don't make it to TV as often.
But a SIGNIFICANT percentage of Africans do have to worry about life's bare necessities, much HIGHER than in other continents at least.
Thus, you answered your own question and I really don't know what you're trying to argue.
Q: I feel like there aren't many African SC players, am I right?
RIGHT, because in both percentage and absolute terms FAR FEWER Africans have access to electricity -> computers -> internet access.
So tempted to post the "my brain is full of fuck" meme again.
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Setting up "global" competitions that subsidise too many regions and too many players just for the sake of advertising a "global" competition is one way to ruin World championships like what has happened with wcg, wsvg and countless others. Theres a need to balance player numbers/prizemoney/travel expenses. Supporting the developed scenes where all the sponsors and viewers are is the best way to build a sustainable tournament with some real prestige to it. That said, many tournaments seem to be happy to throw invites to SEA despite being a weaker/less developed region than others. But they seem to think that the investment will pay off in the future, who knows? Blizzard seemed to thinks so anyway...
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the food is more important than playing game in the africa!
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There obviously are people from african countries who play SCII.
I guess you could argue if there was an african division it would be easier to qualify via that one than via others,
but on the other hand that argument works for like any division other than the asia one.
If nothing else Blizzard should allow african countries to have national qualifiers and let the champions then compete in one (prolly EU?) of the other region-qualifier things.
After all they want some kind of SCII World Cup!
e: Still not getting how "there are ppl in africa that need food more than sc2" leads to "africans that like to play sc2 must not do so"... xd
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On April 08 2012 12:45 hyphenchang wrote:
the food is more important than playing game in the africa!
Way to continue the stereotype of the xenophobic ignorant far easterner. While Many African countries are impoverished there are also many places in Africa with wealthy people who have the means to play sc2. If you've ever been to the wealthy sections of Lagos, Accra, or Nairobi you would know. Instead you probably think everyone is living in huts off of dirt roads.
Now I'm not saying its enough for Blizzard to invest in an African server but saying that everyone there is starving and needs food is just dumb.
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On April 08 2012 09:24 Snoodles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 11:37 PraetorianX wrote:On April 07 2012 09:11 bblack wrote:
So, it comes down to this:
I feel like there aren't many African SC players, am I right?
Why is that the case? I don't feel that it's possible to answer this question without going into some really sensitive issues in depth - issues beyond the spectrum of this forum - and possibly stepping on some toes by doing so. So you're not gonna get a good answer to your question - but that doesn't mean there isn't one. You're implying that they're not smart enough, which is a topic that doesn't need to be taboo because it is so easily discredited. Is the average Korean a GM? Is the average white european a GM? No average person plays pro starcraft 2, so population averages like education and IQ don't matter, since pro-level play will be done by talented outliers. Given that africa is home to millions of people, there will be at least thousands of potential pros there at the tail-end of the bell curve. Culture and infrastructure are the only possible explanations here. Given that high-achieving people of African origin can get into Ivy League institutions and become US Presidents or Astrophysicists, there is absolutely no inherent reason pros can't come out of Africa, black OR white.
You make a fair point. Africans can become doctors, scientists and engineers - so why not SC2 professionals? But the fact you seem to be forgetting is that if the bell curve is displaced, those talented outliers will be fewer in number. So if you are born as a talented outlier in Africa, chances are you will become a politician or a doctor or an architect or something else which can actually make a big difference both for yourself and for your country. In this case, SC2 will be a long way down on your list of priorities in life.
This is especially true given the "brain drain" of Africa, where talented outliers flee their native countries in search of better lives abroad. Tanzania, for example, has only 0,02 doctors per 1000 people, compared to 1,7, which is the weighted world average. So if you are a talented outlier in Tanzania, will you become a doctor or a professional SC2 player? I think the answer is pretty obvious.
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United States97274 Posts
Namibia was represented at WCG by wern who actually scored a win, so there must be at least 1 person who plays in africa
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On April 08 2012 10:49 Stinson wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 03:10 PandaTank wrote:
... I suppose you also think we have ride elephants to work here. At least on an elephant I would be able to take my toolbox home. My Kangaroo really struggles with the groceries in her pouch.
Have you ever seen an elephant stampede? Damn things are hard to control.
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If I were you, PandaTank, I would write to Blizzard and state that you're a GM on EU who would like to compete and ask which tournament you should enter, seeing as you're a South African. The possible outcomes would be, I guess:
1) They answer that they plan to support as many as possible and that more info will be provided later - in which you case you have to sit tight and wait for information. Possibly remind them in a month or so if nothing new has been announced.
2) They answer that they'll arrange for you to join ESL's Other European Countries Tournament, in which case you can do that.
3) They answer that they don't plan to support Africa, in which case you can report back and perhaps we can manage a proper nerd rage together to make them change their minds.
I think it would also be a good idea for other South African players to ask Blizz how they should participate in the Global Championship (so that they see that there are in fact a huge number of people in Africa who want to compete). My best suggestion would be to politely ask them how, with an implicit understanding that you are in fact going to be able to compete, seeing as they promised other nationals to get their chance, but at the same time state your concerns that you've been forgotten on the basis that your continent as a whole has not been mentioned whatsoever and that it is not obvious at all how you are going to compete, as opposed to the rest of the world who has had their continent mentioned in passing, if nothing else.
If none of that works, perhaps the SC2 community could hold an unofficial qualifier for Africans, in protest, and then when the champion is crowned, we could again demand that he (or she) gets a seed to the Championships.
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On April 08 2012 22:02 iMAniaC wrote:
If I were you, PandaTank, I would write to Blizzard and state that you're a GM on EU who would like to compete and ask which tournament you should enter, seeing as you're a South African. The possible outcomes would be, I guess:
1) They answer that they plan to support as many as possible and that more info will be provided later - in which you case you have to sit tight and wait for information. Possibly remind them in a month or so if nothing new has been announced.
2) They answer that they'll arrange for you to join ESL's Other European Countries Tournament, in which case you can do that.
3) They answer that they don't plan to support Africa, in which case you can report back and perhaps we can manage a proper nerd rage together to make them change their minds.
I think it would also be a good idea for other South African players to ask Blizz how they should participate in the Global Championship (so that they see that there are in fact a huge number of people in Africa who want to compete). My best suggestion would be to politely ask them how, with an implicit understanding that you are in fact going to be able to compete, seeing as they promised other nationals to get their chance, but at the same time state your concerns that you've been forgotten on the basis that your continent as a whole has not been mentioned whatsoever and that it is not obvious at all how you are going to compete, as opposed to the rest of the world who has had their continent mentioned in passing, if nothing else.
If none of that works, perhaps the SC2 community could hold an unofficial qualifier for Africans, in protest, and then when the champion is crowned, we could again demand that he (or she) gets a seed to the Championships.
Great post. I support this idea!
I'm afraid that they'll diplomatically go with option 1, but let's see what happens
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On April 07 2012 18:53 bblack wrote:My point is, here in Europe everyone can get into college if you are intelligent enough and want to. You don't need to have money to back it up, and there are more than enough spots for everyone. If that is not the case, then it might be more tempting to pursue a career in gaming, if there is enough money to be gained by doing so.
And this is based on what, Netherlands? Here in Poland top universities are pretty hard to get. Yes, if you are genious you can get into the uni but you can't say "everyone intelligent" can. So what does "enough" actually mean? There are more spots for geniuses here too but not enough for every intelligent person. Plus affording studies especially if you have to move out from your home is pretty expensive and many students struggle to do so. So again where in Europe? Because for sure not in whole Europe. Looks like another random assumption but I'm giving you a chance to explain...
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EPT
