EPTGranted this is also the account I didn't ever really ladder on so it's mmr wasn't so high to give me that natural point inflation that most people get (especially in masters) to start a season, and this problem isn't so noticeable on my other account, but once the mmr point inflation stops I think this will probably be a problem lots of people see.
Match Making Changes in Ladder Season 7 - Page 15
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Cornix
United States220 Posts
Granted this is also the account I didn't ever really ladder on so it's mmr wasn't so high to give me that natural point inflation that most people get (especially in masters) to start a season, and this problem isn't so noticeable on my other account, but once the mmr point inflation stops I think this will probably be a problem lots of people see. | ||
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00Visor
4337 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:16 Cornix wrote: The thing that I really don't like about this is that one of my accounts mmr is apparently perfect to extend up to high+ masters and down to middiamond, but there's is an incredibly larger amount of people in mid/high diamond than there are in masters, so the majority of my matches are against diamonds. So my first day I went 10-2 on ladder, and in previous seasons would've expected at least 200 points from a record of 10-2, instead I was barely cracking 100. Even constantly holding 60-80% winrate I still see myself favored far far more often than I see them favored, resulting in few points for a win and lots of points lost, so even though I can look at my record and say 'yeah that's good' my points are holding steady or dropping because it sometimes takes 3 wins to make up the points of every loss I take. So even though I might be crushing every diamond I come up against and going 50% winrate against masters, if I get cheesed by a diamond and lose 20 points, and only rarely have the opportunity to make more than 6 points per win.. it's frustrating even when I'm doing well. Granted this is also the account I didn't ever really ladder on so it's mmr wasn't so high to give me that natural point inflation that most people get (especially in masters) to start a season, and this problem isn't so noticeable on my other account, but once the mmr point inflation stops I think this will probably be a problem lots of people see. Well the MMR/ladder system is supposed to work that way, that you don't get easy points for just beating diamonds. I don't think the matchmaking is an issue for points/MMR at all. I do understand however that a lot of people are not pleased playing players with so different skill levels. Even with the old matchmaking there were enough games where I crushed somebody or was crushed. You have to consider that not only are you matched a bit higher/lower than your MMR, but also MMR is only an estimation of a players skill; and then there are additional factors like strength in particular matchups etc. That created enough diversity IMO. I feel Blizzard should at least let people choose if you want to search player in a wide range of MMR or not. (this could mean, that no GM will do this, than no high master, ....) But with the current system, I fear that for professional players ladder will become a total waste of time for practising. | ||
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Penecks
United States600 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:16 Cornix wrote:So even though I might be crushing every diamond I come up against and going 50% winrate against masters, if I get cheesed by a diamond and lose 20 points, and only rarely have the opportunity to make more than 6 points per win.. it's frustrating even when I'm doing well. I feared this would happen, because a similar situation existed in WoW arena (which uses the MMR system found in SC2, maybe slightly different) where a team could become quite highly rated, but not high enough to where they only faced the tip-top opponents (or even just because not enough people were queuing) and would be forced to fight lower rated teams for 4-6 points a win, and 20+ points a loss. It was common for my 5v5 team to play a couple hours worth of games, win all but one, and have a net gain of no points. Granted, there's much more "randomness" in WoW arena than SC2 that would enable a lower ranked team to win, however, if you are testing out builds, or just playing a bit worse than usual, you can really drop a ton of points/MMR to lower ranked players. | ||
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KroN
Germany438 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:16 Cornix wrote: The thing that I really don't like about this is that one of my accounts mmr is apparently perfect to extend up to high+ masters and down to middiamond, but there's is an incredibly larger amount of people in mid/high diamond than there are in masters, so the majority of my matches are against diamonds. So my first day I went 10-2 on ladder, and in previous seasons would've expected at least 200 points from a record of 10-2, instead I was barely cracking 100. Even constantly holding 60-80% winrate I still see myself favored far far more often than I see them favored, resulting in few points for a win and lots of points lost, so even though I can look at my record and say 'yeah that's good' my points are holding steady or dropping because it sometimes takes 3 wins to make up the points of every loss I take. So even though I might be crushing every diamond I come up against and going 50% winrate against masters, if I get cheesed by a diamond and lose 20 points, and only rarely have the opportunity to make more than 6 points per win.. it's frustrating even when I'm doing well. Granted this is also the account I didn't ever really ladder on so it's mmr wasn't so high to give me that natural point inflation that most people get (especially in masters) to start a season, and this problem isn't so noticeable on my other account, but once the mmr point inflation stops I think this will probably be a problem lots of people see. same thing for me on two accounts, extremely frustrating to play against 80% diamonds, and loosind 17-20 points for one loss | ||
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HyperionDreamer
Canada1528 Posts
Mid masters on NA but I'm playing 75% of my games versus diamonds, sometimes even low low diamonds who frankly aren't even a challenge to win against. I think I'm 15-4 right now on ladder, and it's rarely matching me up against mid/high master players, which is who I'm going to play against to get better. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
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ZeromuS
Canada13431 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:42 HyperionDreamer wrote: I'm actually experiencing the same thing that Cornix posted. Mid masters on NA but I'm playing 75% of my games versus diamonds, sometimes even low low diamonds who frankly aren't even a challenge to win against. I think I'm 15-4 right now on ladder, and it's rarely matching me up against mid/high master players, which is who I'm going to play against to get better. I;ve been playing top masters and im in diamond. One guy has 400 points in master league rank 2 and another on a 11 win 1 loss streak. Why the hell are other people getting all the easy ones? Im rank 6 in my div with a 25% win ratio because of the way the points work now but I don't care about ranking. I am not enjoying myself at all. | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
Pretty relaxing though, fun to play as an aggressive zerg. Make units at some random timing and be super aggressive. Even though eco is sacrificed, still will be fine since most of them float over 1k anyway. This game will be so much more fun if the game is decided more by tactical prowess instead of build orders (yep shitty zvp matchups.. i'm looking at you). | ||
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lost1991
Netherlands9 Posts
The old system was much better | ||
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Shottaz
United Kingdom414 Posts
Same old around my level people, one above, one below, one above, one below. | ||
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HyperionDreamer
Canada1528 Posts
I was originally a supporter of it cause I thought I'd get to play against some progamers once in a while, but right now I'm not even getting good practice from laddering. | ||
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Yaki
France4234 Posts
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SwitchAUS
Australia106 Posts
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ShakaZu.Sc2
United States131 Posts
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Cornix
United States220 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:36 00Visor wrote: Well the MMR/ladder system is supposed to work that way, that you don't get easy points for just beating diamonds. I don't think the matchmaking is an issue for points/MMR at all. I do understand however that a lot of people are not pleased playing players with so different skill levels. Even with the old matchmaking there were enough games where I crushed somebody or was crushed. You have to consider that not only are you matched a bit higher/lower than your MMR, but also MMR is only an estimation of a players skill; and then there are additional factors like strength in particular matchups etc. That created enough diversity IMO. I feel Blizzard should at least let people choose if you want to search player in a wide range of MMR or not. (this could mean, that no GM will do this, than no high master, ....) But with the current system, I fear that for professional players ladder will become a total waste of time for practising. To your first point, that's not what I meant. Put it this way, if the MMR range I can play stretches up to the top masters, and down to middiamond, I'm going to get more favored matches against diamonds more often than even or unfavored against masters, even though the matchmaking system is 'working correctly'. Why? Because ALL of masters encompasses (supposedly) 2% of players, where as the top half of diamond players would compose of 9% of all players. Given blizzards original plan for the leagues (I don't know how much percentages have changed/how many inactives there are clouding those numbers) there are currently 4 and a half times as many diamonds in the range for me to play against than there are masters, meaning that statistically every time I click the play game button I am 4 times more likely to find a diamond opponent in my range than a masters opponent. So instead of getting an 'even' wash between facing people above and below myself, I get extremely skewed towards people below myself. | ||
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TheRealPaciFist
United States1049 Posts
Just because two players are evenly matched doesn't mean both are playing the best they can. For example, Bob plays the best he can whenever he ladders. He has little RTS experience, so he's Gold league. Jimmy plays Plat level when he tries hard enough, but when he's sloppy he's Gold league. I believe that this will be a bad change because the most fun games arise from most evenly matched games (SO TRUE in dota and SO HARD to achieve with match making in that style of game... but that's another discussion for another forum). If a player wants to ladder without trying as hard, then he just needs to decide to do so. | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
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Twerrax
Norway20 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GydtM.jpg) | ||
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Killmouse
Austria5700 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:55 ZeromuS wrote: I;ve been playing top masters and im in diamond. One guy has 400 points in master league rank 2 and another on a 11 win 1 loss streak. Why the hell are other people getting all the easy ones? Im rank 6 in my div with a 25% win ratio because of the way the points work now but I don't care about ranking. I am not enjoying myself at all. im mid masta terran and hav been playin 70% diamonds too rofl , im 9-1 now, only lost placement T.T | ||
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JDub
United States976 Posts
On April 13 2012 03:14 Twerrax wrote: Oh my oh my the ladder just broke.. 100% all inn cheesy games all day.. This is getting old very fast.. and all these new 2player maps is cheesy-proxy-cannon-rush heaven.. ffs.. disheartening.. *cry* You losing a lot != ladder is broken. Everybody has losing streaks from time to time. They suck  | ||
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