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pretty dumb imo... way way over sensitive.. jessica is going to lose a lot of popularity
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Poll: Let's just get this out of the wayAgree with Jessica (39) 59% Disagree with Jessica but against Cyber Defamation (21) 32% Cyber Defamation is ok, (Disclaim: these voter's views do not reflect the community) (6) 9% 66 total votes Your vote: Let's just get this out of the way (Vote): Agree with Jessica
(Vote): Disagree with Jessica but against Cyber Defamation
(Vote): Cyber Defamation is ok, (Disclaim: these voter's views do not reflect the community)
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On March 31 2012 08:39 Shunjal wrote:
Go from the Orb thread to this one, and the opinions differ completely.
Well said. Wonder what the user agreement says about chat conduct. Go Jessica!
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On March 31 2012 12:42 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 12:32 snailz wrote:On March 31 2012 12:29 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 12:28 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 31 2012 12:23 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 12:19 lorkac wrote:On March 31 2012 12:13 Spieltor wrote:On March 31 2012 12:10 mrtomjones wrote:On March 31 2012 12:09 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 12:07 Wombat_NI wrote:
[quote]
Sexism is alive and well and you're deluded if you think otherwise. Legalistic equality has not seen a cultural shift to true gender equality, but it's a complex issue overall. I don't think it's fair to be characterised as some overprotective man defined by some pseudo-scientific idea of man as naturally protective. I tend to stand up against ridiculous behaviour on this forum if I'm in a particularly angry mood. Most of this relates to player/caster bashing and giving the low proportion of woman players I hardly think I'm some white-knight. I criticised the opportunities given to players like QuanticFlo because they are so blatantly non-meritocratic.
Anyhow, if people don't call out atrocious behaviour for what it actually is, then attitudes don't change. For a good example of cultural conditioning, look at the societal attitudes towards drink driving and how they have changed. At least in Ireland it used to be de rigieur to drive home while drunk as a skunk. It was 'the done thing' and nobody saw a problem with it, it took real effort for the practice to be as socially frowned upon as it now is, over years and years of government funded campaigns and grass-roots privately-supported initiatives.
Granted there is a case to be made about crying wolf racism/sexism or what have you. in this specific instance I was under the impression he was using Korean equivalents of cunt and other such pejoratives which are often applied in a misogynist manner. If wrong I stand corrected sexism is alive becuase people want it to be the white knights want sexism to be alive so they can pretend to defend the dainty females females want it to be alive so they can scream it and get people in trouble if everyone jsut forgot that women and men are different, and i mean everyone not just the people throwing insults, then sexism will disapear Ummm what? How old are you dude? lol... You have to be trolling. No way you believe this crap. People WANT it to exist? The only people who do are those who are sexist... man... you are crazy. he isnt wrong. Holding doors for women, paying for dinner for women, thats sexism because you're treating them differently due to their sex bits. Prove this isnt so. Isn't it great that the only one talking about paying for dinners and opening doors is you?  Really though, a guy comes up and says we shouldn't call women cunts. Typical response of "it's sexism to open doors too!" Why yes it would be. It's a good thing supposed "white knights" never really argue that men should open doors for women... They really only ask that men don't treat them bad--not necessarily treat them like paragons. Hmm... I wonder why a man would think that not calling a woman a cunt is equal to treating her like royalty... so are you saying its okay to call men cunts? tahts the problem, why does Jessica have to be a women in this scenario? why is it about what we shouldnt be calling women? why couldnt it have been "we shouldnt call anyone cunt"? becuase people arent interested in defending MEN there interested in defending WOMEN becuase women have painted themselves as these fragile little dainties that need to be protected, then they realised that men were taking it seriosuly, so they started wining that they were being protected like fragile little dainties, that they wanted to be treated equally, but tehy didnt want that, they wanted to be treated exactly like men except also as fragile little dainties Cunt is a pejorative that when used in that context can take on sexist connotations, I don't see how that example is so difficult to understand. To take your logic, I should be, as a white caucasian male, as offended by being called a nigger as somebody who is black right? of course you should, no matter who its said to its the same word, why do you think Orb got fired? because white America can't get over what they did to now significant part of their population? collective guilt, if you will? there, now that was trolling.  I defended Orb in that particular instance as he used nigger as a generalcurseword, divorced from any kind of racist intent. Use of the word cunt, with the associated anti-woman connotations, against a woman is different in that sense. I am not being hypocritical with regards to the Orb instance, I felt that he was just venting and in an impersonal environment (i.e your usernames are divorced from your real life personna). For example, I don't mind getting a ton of BM on Starcraft, but would get irritated if it was to spread and constitute spamming of my Facebook, which I use to connect and interact with friends and associates if that makes sense. I also felt that Orb was singled out by jealous people who are pissed that he was making it in an area of life that they'd like it to. Not everybody who censured him of course fits that description, that'd be silly but there was a signficant minority, especially on Reddit who to me fell into this bracket. Incidentally back to the Jessica point. Stream chat and ad revenue has a commercial benefit for the Slayers team and her, and if the fan/star dialogue is what attracts people (at least partly) then surely she has some motivation in that sense too? Trolls/spammers are close to a DDoS when it comes to any kind of live chat, there is too much information for anybody in the chat to strike up any kind of dialogue, which is a real shame.
well that's basically what i was saying, that collective guilt filled Americans tend to overreact to what truly was as you say "general curseword", and that's why orb got fired. but i have a feeling you were quoting me and actually replying to Forikorder
anyhows, to me, N or C word has the same weight, but hell, i was never historically troubled with racism so what do i know
eventually, it all comes down to what Blasterion is saying. if we as a community support idiots spating cunt and similiar insults towards "our own", then we are no community at all, and should be ashamed.
JESSICA 2012!
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Canada4020 Posts
On March 31 2012 12:47 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 12:40 Blasterion wrote:On March 31 2012 12:38 iCanada wrote:
This thread kind of disturbs me.
Why do people think trolling is okay? Why is someone facing a repercussion from trolling a bad thing?
Why is taking away peoples abilities to go be a complete douche-fuck on the internet a bad thing? And how does it reflect our image as a community, as TL, as gamers when we have people tolerating and supporting classless acts like these. Yeah, thats what I was thinking. I thought you were better than this TL. qq.
The mods dont ban people for having .....interesting...opinions apparently. I think half the things here should be warned but meh thats just my opinion sadly..
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i am actually happy somebody is finally doing something about stupid trolls who think they can just say or do whatever they want
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Canada4020 Posts
On March 31 2012 12:42 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 12:39 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 12:35 lorkac wrote:On March 31 2012 12:29 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 12:28 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 31 2012 12:23 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 12:19 lorkac wrote:On March 31 2012 12:13 Spieltor wrote:On March 31 2012 12:10 mrtomjones wrote:On March 31 2012 12:09 Forikorder wrote:
[quote]
sexism is alive becuase people want it to be
the white knights want sexism to be alive so they can pretend to defend the dainty females
females want it to be alive so they can scream it and get people in trouble
if everyone jsut forgot that women and men are different, and i mean everyone not just the people throwing insults, then sexism will disapear Ummm what? How old are you dude? lol... You have to be trolling. No way you believe this crap. People WANT it to exist? The only people who do are those who are sexist... man... you are crazy. he isnt wrong. Holding doors for women, paying for dinner for women, thats sexism because you're treating them differently due to their sex bits. Prove this isnt so. Isn't it great that the only one talking about paying for dinners and opening doors is you? Really though, a guy comes up and says we shouldn't call women cunts. Typical response of "it's sexism to open doors too!" Why yes it would be. It's a good thing supposed "white knights" never really argue that men should open doors for women... They really only ask that men don't treat them bad--not necessarily treat them like paragons. Hmm... I wonder why a man would think that not calling a woman a cunt is equal to treating her like royalty... so are you saying its okay to call men cunts? tahts the problem, why does Jessica have to be a women in this scenario? why is it about what we shouldnt be calling women? why couldnt it have been "we shouldnt call anyone cunt"? becuase people arent interested in defending MEN there interested in defending WOMEN becuase women have painted themselves as these fragile little dainties that need to be protected, then they realised that men were taking it seriosuly, so they started wining that they were being protected like fragile little dainties, that they wanted to be treated equally, but tehy didnt want that, they wanted to be treated exactly like men except also as fragile little dainties Cunt is a pejorative that when used in that context can take on sexist connotations, I don't see how that example is so difficult to understand. To take your logic, I should be, as a white caucasian male, as offended by being called a nigger as somebody who is black right? of course you should, no matter who its said to its the same word, why do you think Orb got fired? He got fired because he lives in a society where saying someone is black is akin to saying he is a weaker/lesser/dumber human being. It must be obvious that the reason the N word is racist is because it's a word that is used to define someone as being less than human by saying they are just like negros--with the implicit understanding that negros are less than human. no he got fired becuase he used a heavy insult and got caught You didn't read what I said did you?
He avoids anything that proves him wrong or makes him think about right and wrong
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Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
I hope that everyone involved in this comes out ok ;_;
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On March 31 2012 12:48 Blasterion wrote:Poll: Let's just get this out of the wayAgree with Jessica (39) 59% Disagree with Jessica but against Cyber Defamation (21) 32% Cyber Defamation is ok, (Disclaim: these voter's views do not reflect the community) (6) 9% 66 total votes Your vote: Let's just get this out of the way (Vote): Agree with Jessica
(Vote): Disagree with Jessica but against Cyber Defamation
(Vote): Cyber Defamation is ok, (Disclaim: these voter's views do not reflect the community)
biased poll much?
how about a "this sint a big deal and Jessica is overeacting" option?
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mods should REALLY include in the OP that 7 years is a maximum sentence, and he wont get nowhere near that... its for cases like when you bully someone into a suicide.
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There is no excuse for saying stuff like that to SlayerS or jessica. Glad she laid down the law and protected herself/her team.
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On March 31 2012 12:50 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 12:48 Blasterion wrote:Poll: Let's just get this out of the wayAgree with Jessica (39) 59% Disagree with Jessica but against Cyber Defamation (21) 32% Cyber Defamation is ok, (Disclaim: these voter's views do not reflect the community) (6) 9% 66 total votes Your vote: Let's just get this out of the way (Vote): Agree with Jessica
(Vote): Disagree with Jessica but against Cyber Defamation
(Vote): Cyber Defamation is ok, (Disclaim: these voter's views do not reflect the community)
biased poll much? how about a "this sint a big deal and Jessica is overeacting" option?
that would be the 3rd option.
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On March 31 2012 12:50 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 12:48 Blasterion wrote:Poll: Let's just get this out of the wayAgree with Jessica (39) 59% Disagree with Jessica but against Cyber Defamation (21) 32% Cyber Defamation is ok, (Disclaim: these voter's views do not reflect the community) (6) 9% 66 total votes Your vote: Let's just get this out of the way (Vote): Agree with Jessica
(Vote): Disagree with Jessica but against Cyber Defamation
(Vote): Cyber Defamation is ok, (Disclaim: these voter's views do not reflect the community)
biased poll much? how about a "this sint a big deal and Jessica is overeacting" option?
You either agree with her or disagree,
You either are pro Cyber Dickery or against,
What's biased about this.
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Jessica but we should make a stand that sexually harassing a woman is wrong. It seems like a no-brainer for me.
we shouldnt say sexual harassing a women is wrong, we should say harassing anyone is wrong
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Canada4020 Posts
On March 31 2012 12:50 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 12:48 Blasterion wrote:Poll: Let's just get this out of the wayAgree with Jessica (39) 59% Disagree with Jessica but against Cyber Defamation (21) 32% Cyber Defamation is ok, (Disclaim: these voter's views do not reflect the community) (6) 9% 66 total votes Your vote: Let's just get this out of the way (Vote): Agree with Jessica
(Vote): Disagree with Jessica but against Cyber Defamation
(Vote): Cyber Defamation is ok, (Disclaim: these voter's views do not reflect the community)
biased poll much? how about a "this sint a big deal and Jessica is overeacting" option?
Read the options. That is the second option. Unless you think what this person did is ok in which case you pick option 3.
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Ouch, this guy must be pretty scared right now T.T
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On March 31 2012 12:50 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 12:48 Blasterion wrote:Poll: Let's just get this out of the wayAgree with Jessica (39) 59% Disagree with Jessica but against Cyber Defamation (21) 32% Cyber Defamation is ok, (Disclaim: these voter's views do not reflect the community) (6) 9% 66 total votes Your vote: Let's just get this out of the way (Vote): Agree with Jessica
(Vote): Disagree with Jessica but against Cyber Defamation
(Vote): Cyber Defamation is ok, (Disclaim: these voter's views do not reflect the community)
biased poll much? how about a "this sint a big deal and Jessica is overeacting" option?
Dislike the result much? Second option covers it pretty well.
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On March 31 2012 12:51 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 12:50 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 12:48 Blasterion wrote:Poll: Let's just get this out of the wayAgree with Jessica (39) 59% Disagree with Jessica but against Cyber Defamation (21) 32% Cyber Defamation is ok, (Disclaim: these voter's views do not reflect the community) (6) 9% 66 total votes Your vote: Let's just get this out of the way (Vote): Agree with Jessica
(Vote): Disagree with Jessica but against Cyber Defamation
(Vote): Cyber Defamation is ok, (Disclaim: these voter's views do not reflect the community)
biased poll much? how about a "this sint a big deal and Jessica is overeacting" option? that would be the 3rd option.
no the third option is saying taht it is completely okay what is written, noone in there right mind would click that, that doesnt mean that Jessica isnt completely overeacting and this whole thing was blown out of porportion
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Northern Ireland26342 Posts
On March 31 2012 12:47 Iloja wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 11:55 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 11:51 Wombat_NI wrote:
The reason people are invoking the sexism angle is because it's probably a motivating factor in the initial chat. I grow more and more uneasy with the increase in outright, horrendous misogyny. Hey I'm all for a risque sexist joke, if there's some wit involved, but the spewing of such bile makes me worry that societal attitudes towards women will change for the worse. Bear in mind this from personal recollection rather than anything backed empirically
Of course I'm a 'white knight' for believing that somebody having different reproductive organs to me doesn't give me carte blanche to abuse them. the dude who was trolling probably doesnt give 2 cents what gender she is and was just having fun trolling if a male was doing Jessicas job and acted jsut like jessica has the dude would still have been on that chout shouting obsenities, possibly even the same ones insults are pretty universal now the real problem with the world is people like YOU not him, he doesnt care about the gender, you do becuase Jessica is a women you consider it our job to protect her, if it was a dude you probably wouldnt care at all and jsut say he needed thicker skin, but becuase its a women allofasudden this is a big huge deal that everyone should stop and halp console Jessica after her terrible ordeal sexism is pretty much dead, the only people keeping it alive is people who make such a huge deal over stuff like this and keep it at the top of peoples minds This is an issue this community is sharply divided over. I think we should accept that we stand divided on this issue but in the end it doesen't matter, because society has already decided (in forms of laws) what is acceptable and what not. This guy is getting sued and people like Wombat and me think it's right, people like you think it is not. In my opinion it is the exact opposite way, Racism and Sexism are still a problem because of people who constantly try to downplay it every opportunity they get while it still is a big problem in our society. Noone ever said we should all "console" Jessica but we should make a stand that sexually harassing a woman is wrong. It seems like a no-brainer for me.
Incidentally I only think legal censure is appropriate due to the woeful responses to such behaviour I see wherever it pops up. Either people join in with the abuse or blame the victim for 'being thin-skinned'. If it takes a bit of shock therapy and pricks like this guy being sued (I don't want him to actually be found guilty/fined btw) to change the culture, then I'm reluctantly accepting of that.
I agree with this far more than some of the cases brought against Anon members, some of whom were trying to at least do some social good. This kind of trolling is obnoxious and serves no purpose, and this is coming from somebody with very, very thick skin. It's the equivalent of my 6 year old sister doing that annoying 'mimic everything you say in a sing-song voice' for half an hour. It's not clever, it's not witty, it doesn't offend me personal but it's fucking annoying.
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Canada4020 Posts
On March 31 2012 12:51 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +Jessica but we should make a stand that sexually harassing a woman is wrong. It seems like a no-brainer for me. we shouldnt say sexual harassing a women is wrong, we should say harassing anyone is wrong
nonono... you already said people bothered by it shouldnt be online. Just kick those who get sexually harassed off and your world is perfect. The world isn't as biased as you seem to think.
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EPT
