On March 31 2012 11:51 Wombat_NI wrote: The reason people are invoking the sexism angle is because it's probably a motivating factor in the initial chat. I grow more and more uneasy with the increase in outright, horrendous misogyny. Hey I'm all for a risque sexist joke, if there's some wit involved, but the spewing of such bile makes me worry that societal attitudes towards women will change for the worse. Bear in mind this from personal recollection rather than anything backed empirically
Of course I'm a 'white knight' for believing that somebody having different reproductive organs to me doesn't give me carte blanche to abuse them.
the dude who was trolling probably doesnt give 2 cents what gender she is and was just having fun trolling if a male was doing Jessicas job and acted jsut like jessica has the dude would still have been on that chout shouting obsenities, possibly even the same ones insults are pretty universal now
the real problem with the world is people like YOU not him, he doesnt care about the gender, you do becuase Jessica is a women you consider it our job to protect her, if it was a dude you probably wouldnt care at all and jsut say he needed thicker skin, but becuase its a women allofasudden this is a big huge deal that everyone should stop and halp console Jessica after her terrible ordeal
sexism is pretty much dead, the only people keeping it alive is people who make such a huge deal over stuff like this and keep it at the top of peoples minds
Sexism is alive and well and you're deluded if you think otherwise. Legalistic equality has not seen a cultural shift to true gender equality, but it's a complex issue overall. I don't think it's fair to be characterised as some overprotective man defined by some pseudo-scientific idea of man as naturally protective. I tend to stand up against ridiculous behaviour on this forum if I'm in a particularly angry mood. Most of this relates to player/caster bashing and giving the low proportion of woman players I hardly think I'm some white-knight. I criticised the opportunities given to players like QuanticFlo because they are so blatantly non-meritocratic.
Anyhow, if people don't call out atrocious behaviour for what it actually is, then attitudes don't change. For a good example of cultural conditioning, look at the societal attitudes towards drink driving and how they have changed. At least in Ireland it used to be de rigieur to drive home while drunk as a skunk. It was 'the done thing' and nobody saw a problem with it, it took real effort for the practice to be as socially frowned upon as it now is, over years and years of government funded campaigns and grass-roots privately-supported initiatives.
Granted there is a case to be made about crying wolf racism/sexism or what have you. in this specific instance I was under the impression he was using Korean equivalents of cunt and other such pejoratives which are often applied in a misogynist manner. If wrong I stand corrected
sexism is alive becuase people want it to be
the white knights want sexism to be alive so they can pretend to defend the dainty females
females want it to be alive so they can scream it and get people in trouble
if everyone jsut forgot that women and men are different, and i mean everyone not just the people throwing insults, then sexism will disapear
Ummm what? How old are you dude? lol... You have to be trolling. No way you believe this crap. People WANT it to exist? The only people who do are those who are sexist... man... you are crazy.
he isnt wrong. Holding doors for women, paying for dinner for women, thats sexism because you're treating them differently due to their sex bits.
Prove this isnt so.
Isn't it great that the only one talking about paying for dinners and opening doors is you?
Really though, a guy comes up and says we shouldn't call women cunts. Typical response of "it's sexism to open doors too!"
Why yes it would be. It's a good thing supposed "white knights" never really argue that men should open doors for women... They really only ask that men don't treat them bad--not necessarily treat them like paragons. Hmm... I wonder why a man would think that not calling a woman a cunt is equal to treating her like royalty...
so are you saying its okay to call men cunts?
tahts the problem, why does Jessica have to be a women in this scenario? why is it about what we shouldnt be calling women? why couldnt it have been "we shouldnt call anyone cunt"?
becuase people arent interested in defending MEN there interested in defending WOMEN becuase women have painted themselves as these fragile little dainties that need to be protected, then they realised that men were taking it seriosuly, so they started wining that they were being protected like fragile little dainties, that they wanted to be treated equally, but tehy didnt want that, they wanted to be treated exactly like men except also as fragile little dainties
Cunt is a pejorative that when used in that context can take on sexist connotations, I don't see how that example is so difficult to understand.
To take your logic, I should be, as a white caucasian male, as offended by being called a nigger as somebody who is black right?
of course you should, no matter who its said to its the same word, why do you think Orb got fired?
because white America can't get over what they did to now significant part of their population? collective guilt, if you will?
On March 31 2012 12:29 NoMicro wrote: Hmm. I'm not sure on the exact quotes of the situation but; I think people who are saying "It's the internet and she should learn." need to realize the internet is part of the world. If you come into somebody's house, or business and are asked to leave and don't you should be charged. The same way with someone's internet chatroom. You're the one making the decision to do this. You should have to deal with the societal implications. You're in a chatroom, on the internet. You're not playing a game. It's real people.
its not her chat room its a public chat room that anyone is allowed to enter and say what they want, if someone broke the rules of the chatroom that person should have been banned
On March 31 2012 11:51 Wombat_NI wrote: The reason people are invoking the sexism angle is because it's probably a motivating factor in the initial chat. I grow more and more uneasy with the increase in outright, horrendous misogyny. Hey I'm all for a risque sexist joke, if there's some wit involved, but the spewing of such bile makes me worry that societal attitudes towards women will change for the worse. Bear in mind this from personal recollection rather than anything backed empirically
Of course I'm a 'white knight' for believing that somebody having different reproductive organs to me doesn't give me carte blanche to abuse them.
the dude who was trolling probably doesnt give 2 cents what gender she is and was just having fun trolling if a male was doing Jessicas job and acted jsut like jessica has the dude would still have been on that chout shouting obsenities, possibly even the same ones insults are pretty universal now
the real problem with the world is people like YOU not him, he doesnt care about the gender, you do becuase Jessica is a women you consider it our job to protect her, if it was a dude you probably wouldnt care at all and jsut say he needed thicker skin, but becuase its a women allofasudden this is a big huge deal that everyone should stop and halp console Jessica after her terrible ordeal
sexism is pretty much dead, the only people keeping it alive is people who make such a huge deal over stuff like this and keep it at the top of peoples minds
Sexism is alive and well and you're deluded if you think otherwise. Legalistic equality has not seen a cultural shift to true gender equality, but it's a complex issue overall. I don't think it's fair to be characterised as some overprotective man defined by some pseudo-scientific idea of man as naturally protective. I tend to stand up against ridiculous behaviour on this forum if I'm in a particularly angry mood. Most of this relates to player/caster bashing and giving the low proportion of woman players I hardly think I'm some white-knight. I criticised the opportunities given to players like QuanticFlo because they are so blatantly non-meritocratic.
Anyhow, if people don't call out atrocious behaviour for what it actually is, then attitudes don't change. For a good example of cultural conditioning, look at the societal attitudes towards drink driving and how they have changed. At least in Ireland it used to be de rigieur to drive home while drunk as a skunk. It was 'the done thing' and nobody saw a problem with it, it took real effort for the practice to be as socially frowned upon as it now is, over years and years of government funded campaigns and grass-roots privately-supported initiatives.
Granted there is a case to be made about crying wolf racism/sexism or what have you. in this specific instance I was under the impression he was using Korean equivalents of cunt and other such pejoratives which are often applied in a misogynist manner. If wrong I stand corrected
sexism is alive becuase people want it to be
the white knights want sexism to be alive so they can pretend to defend the dainty females
females want it to be alive so they can scream it and get people in trouble
if everyone jsut forgot that women and men are different, and i mean everyone not just the people throwing insults, then sexism will disapear
What? I can't tell if you are being serious. You are implying that no one discriminates based on gender. You can't possibly believe that... no one can be that ignorant, so can I assume you are a troll?
If you aren't implying that no one discriminates then why would it just go away? Sure if it was talked about less, we would hear about it less, but then the people who were already discriminating would be unopposed, and feel more comfortable to continue discriminating freely.
what exactly do you mean when your talking discrimination? is there some company that refuses to hire women? is there a sport where women are banned? is there any activity at all that blatantly refuses the aprticipation of women?
Women in Europe (which is generally regarded as better for gender equality) often receive lower pay for identical jobs to male counterparts. They are disproportionality underrepresented in politics, boardrooms of large firms (like the FTSE-100 in the UK) and elsewhere. There are serious issues with how the media presents women who are public figures as well, which naturally inhibits participation in the public sphere. Competent but unattractive female politicians are frequently slaughtered on the basis of their appearance for example in a much more vicious way than their male counterparts (as a generality).
You refer to enshrined legal equalities as evidence that equality exists. It doesn't, even though things aren't horrendously bleak for womenfolk compared to previous generations, it's still got a bit to go.
and while so many women are still using sex apeal to get what they want in life, as long as things like barbies still exist, as long as the man is always expected to pay for the date, as daddies treat there little girls like princesses and create a clear double standard from childhood it wont go any further
Then go become a woman, This woman debate is derailing the thread way too much.
The problem is, Somebody acted classless. So he should be punished the end. Who cares if the victim is woman or not, Is it of to commit cyber defamation against men?
the good thing is these days surgery can accomplish this with ease.
On March 31 2012 11:51 Wombat_NI wrote: The reason people are invoking the sexism angle is because it's probably a motivating factor in the initial chat. I grow more and more uneasy with the increase in outright, horrendous misogyny. Hey I'm all for a risque sexist joke, if there's some wit involved, but the spewing of such bile makes me worry that societal attitudes towards women will change for the worse. Bear in mind this from personal recollection rather than anything backed empirically
Of course I'm a 'white knight' for believing that somebody having different reproductive organs to me doesn't give me carte blanche to abuse them.
the dude who was trolling probably doesnt give 2 cents what gender she is and was just having fun trolling if a male was doing Jessicas job and acted jsut like jessica has the dude would still have been on that chout shouting obsenities, possibly even the same ones insults are pretty universal now
the real problem with the world is people like YOU not him, he doesnt care about the gender, you do becuase Jessica is a women you consider it our job to protect her, if it was a dude you probably wouldnt care at all and jsut say he needed thicker skin, but becuase its a women allofasudden this is a big huge deal that everyone should stop and halp console Jessica after her terrible ordeal
sexism is pretty much dead, the only people keeping it alive is people who make such a huge deal over stuff like this and keep it at the top of peoples minds
Sexism is alive and well and you're deluded if you think otherwise. Legalistic equality has not seen a cultural shift to true gender equality, but it's a complex issue overall. I don't think it's fair to be characterised as some overprotective man defined by some pseudo-scientific idea of man as naturally protective. I tend to stand up against ridiculous behaviour on this forum if I'm in a particularly angry mood. Most of this relates to player/caster bashing and giving the low proportion of woman players I hardly think I'm some white-knight. I criticised the opportunities given to players like QuanticFlo because they are so blatantly non-meritocratic.
Anyhow, if people don't call out atrocious behaviour for what it actually is, then attitudes don't change. For a good example of cultural conditioning, look at the societal attitudes towards drink driving and how they have changed. At least in Ireland it used to be de rigieur to drive home while drunk as a skunk. It was 'the done thing' and nobody saw a problem with it, it took real effort for the practice to be as socially frowned upon as it now is, over years and years of government funded campaigns and grass-roots privately-supported initiatives.
Granted there is a case to be made about crying wolf racism/sexism or what have you. in this specific instance I was under the impression he was using Korean equivalents of cunt and other such pejoratives which are often applied in a misogynist manner. If wrong I stand corrected
sexism is alive becuase people want it to be
the white knights want sexism to be alive so they can pretend to defend the dainty females
females want it to be alive so they can scream it and get people in trouble
if everyone jsut forgot that women and men are different, and i mean everyone not just the people throwing insults, then sexism will disapear
Ummm what? How old are you dude? lol... You have to be trolling. No way you believe this crap. People WANT it to exist? The only people who do are those who are sexist... man... you are crazy.
he isnt wrong. Holding doors for women, paying for dinner for women, thats sexism because you're treating them differently due to their sex bits.
Prove this isnt so.
Isn't it great that the only one talking about paying for dinners and opening doors is you?
Really though, a guy comes up and says we shouldn't call women cunts. Typical response of "it's sexism to open doors too!"
Why yes it would be. It's a good thing supposed "white knights" never really argue that men should open doors for women... They really only ask that men don't treat them bad--not necessarily treat them like paragons. Hmm... I wonder why a man would think that not calling a woman a cunt is equal to treating her like royalty...
so are you saying its okay to call men cunts?
tahts the problem, why does Jessica have to be a women in this scenario? why is it about what we shouldnt be calling women? why couldnt it have been "we shouldnt call anyone cunt"?
becuase people arent interested in defending MEN there interested in defending WOMEN becuase women have painted themselves as these fragile little dainties that need to be protected, then they realised that men were taking it seriosuly, so they started wining that they were being protected like fragile little dainties, that they wanted to be treated equally, but tehy didnt want that, they wanted to be treated exactly like men except also as fragile little dainties
Cunt is a pejorative that when used in that context can take on sexist connotations, I don't see how that example is so difficult to understand.
To take your logic, I should be, as a white caucasian male, as offended by being called a nigger as somebody who is black right?
yes, as a word that is used to term a person of low worth and should be working in fields, that should be offensive to anyone.
On March 31 2012 08:44 ki11z0ne wrote: this is why you got to love the 1st amendment ladies and gents!.... funny how much power words can have in other places...
On March 31 2012 12:29 NoMicro wrote: Hmm. I'm not sure on the exact quotes of the situation but; I think people who are saying "It's the internet and she should learn." need to realize the internet is part of the world. If you come into somebody's house, or business and are asked to leave and don't you should be charged. The same way with someone's internet chatroom. You're the one making the decision to do this. You should have to deal with the societal implications. You're in a chatroom, on the internet. You're not playing a game. It's real people.
its not her chat room its a public chat room that anyone is allowed to enter and say what they want, if someone broke the rules of the chatroom that person should have been banned
People have a responsibility to act with decency.
who gets to decide whats decent?
Pretty sure what he said was not decent by any standards. Lets be honest here.
On March 31 2012 11:51 Wombat_NI wrote: The reason people are invoking the sexism angle is because it's probably a motivating factor in the initial chat. I grow more and more uneasy with the increase in outright, horrendous misogyny. Hey I'm all for a risque sexist joke, if there's some wit involved, but the spewing of such bile makes me worry that societal attitudes towards women will change for the worse. Bear in mind this from personal recollection rather than anything backed empirically
Of course I'm a 'white knight' for believing that somebody having different reproductive organs to me doesn't give me carte blanche to abuse them.
the dude who was trolling probably doesnt give 2 cents what gender she is and was just having fun trolling if a male was doing Jessicas job and acted jsut like jessica has the dude would still have been on that chout shouting obsenities, possibly even the same ones insults are pretty universal now
the real problem with the world is people like YOU not him, he doesnt care about the gender, you do becuase Jessica is a women you consider it our job to protect her, if it was a dude you probably wouldnt care at all and jsut say he needed thicker skin, but becuase its a women allofasudden this is a big huge deal that everyone should stop and halp console Jessica after her terrible ordeal
sexism is pretty much dead, the only people keeping it alive is people who make such a huge deal over stuff like this and keep it at the top of peoples minds
Sexism is alive and well and you're deluded if you think otherwise. Legalistic equality has not seen a cultural shift to true gender equality, but it's a complex issue overall. I don't think it's fair to be characterised as some overprotective man defined by some pseudo-scientific idea of man as naturally protective. I tend to stand up against ridiculous behaviour on this forum if I'm in a particularly angry mood. Most of this relates to player/caster bashing and giving the low proportion of woman players I hardly think I'm some white-knight. I criticised the opportunities given to players like QuanticFlo because they are so blatantly non-meritocratic.
Anyhow, if people don't call out atrocious behaviour for what it actually is, then attitudes don't change. For a good example of cultural conditioning, look at the societal attitudes towards drink driving and how they have changed. At least in Ireland it used to be de rigieur to drive home while drunk as a skunk. It was 'the done thing' and nobody saw a problem with it, it took real effort for the practice to be as socially frowned upon as it now is, over years and years of government funded campaigns and grass-roots privately-supported initiatives.
Granted there is a case to be made about crying wolf racism/sexism or what have you. in this specific instance I was under the impression he was using Korean equivalents of cunt and other such pejoratives which are often applied in a misogynist manner. If wrong I stand corrected
sexism is alive becuase people want it to be
the white knights want sexism to be alive so they can pretend to defend the dainty females
females want it to be alive so they can scream it and get people in trouble
if everyone jsut forgot that women and men are different, and i mean everyone not just the people throwing insults, then sexism will disapear
Ummm what? How old are you dude? lol... You have to be trolling. No way you believe this crap. People WANT it to exist? The only people who do are those who are sexist... man... you are crazy.
he isnt wrong. Holding doors for women, paying for dinner for women, thats sexism because you're treating them differently due to their sex bits.
Prove this isnt so.
Isn't it great that the only one talking about paying for dinners and opening doors is you?
Really though, a guy comes up and says we shouldn't call women cunts. Typical response of "it's sexism to open doors too!"
Why yes it would be. It's a good thing supposed "white knights" never really argue that men should open doors for women... They really only ask that men don't treat them bad--not necessarily treat them like paragons. Hmm... I wonder why a man would think that not calling a woman a cunt is equal to treating her like royalty...
so are you saying its okay to call men cunts?
tahts the problem, why does Jessica have to be a women in this scenario? why is it about what we shouldnt be calling women? why couldnt it have been "we shouldnt call anyone cunt"?
becuase people arent interested in defending MEN there interested in defending WOMEN becuase women have painted themselves as these fragile little dainties that need to be protected, then they realised that men were taking it seriosuly, so they started wining that they were being protected like fragile little dainties, that they wanted to be treated equally, but tehy didnt want that, they wanted to be treated exactly like men except also as fragile little dainties
Cunt is a pejorative that when used in that context can take on sexist connotations, I don't see how that example is so difficult to understand.
To take your logic, I should be, as a white caucasian male, as offended by being called a nigger as somebody who is black right?
of course you should, no matter who its said to its the same word, why do you think Orb got fired?
He got fired because he lives in a society where saying someone is black is akin to saying he is a weaker/lesser/dumber human being. It must be obvious that the reason the N word is racist is because it's a word that is used to define someone as being less than human by saying they are just like negros--with the implicit understanding that negros are less than human.
On March 31 2012 12:29 NoMicro wrote: Hmm. I'm not sure on the exact quotes of the situation but; I think people who are saying "It's the internet and she should learn." need to realize the internet is part of the world. If you come into somebody's house, or business and are asked to leave and don't you should be charged. The same way with someone's internet chatroom. You're the one making the decision to do this. You should have to deal with the societal implications. You're in a chatroom, on the internet. You're not playing a game. It's real people.
its not her chat room its a public chat room that anyone is allowed to enter and say what they want, if someone broke the rules of the chatroom that person should have been banned
People have a responsibility to act with decency.
who gets to decide whats decent?
morality is subjective and not a cosmological constant. People do bad things thinking it is moral, such as bombing towers or suing people for calling them cunts.
On March 31 2012 12:29 NoMicro wrote: Hmm. I'm not sure on the exact quotes of the situation but; I think people who are saying "It's the internet and she should learn." need to realize the internet is part of the world. If you come into somebody's house, or business and are asked to leave and don't you should be charged. The same way with someone's internet chatroom. You're the one making the decision to do this. You should have to deal with the societal implications. You're in a chatroom, on the internet. You're not playing a game. It's real people.
its not her chat room its a public chat room that anyone is allowed to enter and say what they want, if someone broke the rules of the chatroom that person should have been banned
On March 31 2012 11:15 Roe wrote: [quote] That doesn't mean the law is right. I mean come on, would you argue against someone who is fighting a racist or misogynistic government who enforces the law in kind? "But that black person should've known better than to sit at the front of the bus...the country has laws for segregation and she should obey them." I think we should all be able to agree these status quo kinds of statements are void in this argument and serve no purpose.
It is right, if the law makes people be less dickery and have higher class it helps the image of the community as a whole, I can't believe all the people defending this crap. Have you not learned your lesson on what happened to the fighting game community?
If we've reached the point as a society where we need the law to stop people from hurting other people's feelings, I'd say something has gone awry.
If we've reached the point as a society when people are allowed to be dicks as much as they want, I'd say something has gone awry.
I disagree. You should be able to act the way you'd like. Punishments shouldn't be serious for offending people with harmless words.
I disagree. People should be expect to act with a minimum level of class, and be punished if they act with lack of it. People should strive to be higher and higher class. These acts of lack of class shouldn't be tolerated and should be punished and made an example of.
why? why do the people of "higher class" have the right to force there views and beliefs on us "lower class" people?
He's not using the right word but he is right. Everyone should act with a minimum amount of decency if only because that is was the majority of people expect/want from others.
I don't think anyone would argue that this man's acts were beneficial to anyone. Also, I generally assume the best in people but for those saying we don't need laws to tell people not to be dicks - we do. I would rather have laws then some culturally pressured restriction on what is right and what is wrong concerning public behavior. As for this man's actions, they are unacceptable within what is culturally acceptable and within legal boundaries (just the Korean laws though I'm sure if someone was shouting obscenities at me at the grocery store everyday, and waiting there to do so, I could get them in some sort of trouble). Now I don't think he should be put in prison for seven years. That's just stupid. But how anyone could defend him I don't know.
Any American understands that this guy getting taken to civil court for being a dick is just retarded, but this is a different country we're talking about.
You can't legislate good behavior. Good fucking luck trying. I don't defend his actions, but I will forever defend his right to be an asshole.... on American soil or at least a country that has sane laws involving some internet BM.
Interesting. I don't think that it is South Korea = insane laws regarding internet, Rest of the world = cool with insulting/bullying/harassing in the internet. Actually I think it is the other way round, even in europe you can get arrested for stuff like this, and even more severe than what the guy in South Korea is probably facing:
Germany has a very similar stand on the issue, we just have a different treshold. Calling someone an asshole (even in real life) won't necessarliy bring the cops to your door, but repeatedly harassing a woman sexually sure will do, even if it is "just" the internet and I do support this.
True, you can't legislate good behaviour but you can punish anti-social behaviour. Reminder: We are not talking about him calling her a slut once and then leaving, he did it again and again ... that is harassement. If you are a women in the states you can't do anything against this sort of behaviour? Really? What happens if she speaks out against it? Everyone will shun her because she just stirrs up drama? U.S. society is cool with something like this? I somehow can't believe this.
And relax everybody, 7 years is the max, how do laws work in the U.S.? If you are getting found guilty you always get maximum sentence? In germany there is a progression of punishment, up to x years means it is the worst case scenario if the shit really hit the fan in a hurry (you really have to work for it to get the maximum penalty in germany), I belive it is the same in Korea.
In America, we use the tools given to us to ban those insulting us in chat.
The law isn't needed for something as silly as this. US society is based on growing a spine because you have to deal with people's bullshit every day. People have their retarded religious beliefs and no matter how stupid they are, you respect them. People have stupid opinions, you respect them. People call you bad things, you deal with it. In the case of Own3d chat, you can either deal with it or ban the fucker.
Any jail sentence for calling someone a cunt or some other naughty word repeatedly on the internet is just silly. Me bming people on ladder, to an extent where I'm not making actual threats and showing intent to cause ACTUAL HARM to someone in real life is protected speech in accordance to the First Amendment. If you want to understand the laws in the United States, brush up on case law surrounding that amendment.
On March 31 2012 12:29 NoMicro wrote: Hmm. I'm not sure on the exact quotes of the situation but; I think people who are saying "It's the internet and she should learn." need to realize the internet is part of the world. If you come into somebody's house, or business and are asked to leave and don't you should be charged. The same way with someone's internet chatroom. You're the one making the decision to do this. You should have to deal with the societal implications. You're in a chatroom, on the internet. You're not playing a game. It's real people.
its not her chat room its a public chat room that anyone is allowed to enter and say what they want, if someone broke the rules of the chatroom that person should have been banned
People have a responsibility to act with decency.
who gets to decide whats decent?
Decency is not decided--it's a zeitgheist mindset that is fluid and ever evolving. Being decent is not a list of tasks, it is the process of human interaction wherein both (or more) parties are content and happy with the situation at hand in order for them to progress forward towards some goal. (whether the goal be important or meaningless)
People who want there to be goal posts that mark what is decent or not obviously does not understand what the term means.
On March 31 2012 11:17 Blasterion wrote: [quote] It is right, if the law makes people be less dickery and have higher class it helps the image of the community as a whole, I can't believe all the people defending this crap. Have you not learned your lesson on what happened to the fighting game community?
If we've reached the point as a society where we need the law to stop people from hurting other people's feelings, I'd say something has gone awry.
If we've reached the point as a society when people are allowed to be dicks as much as they want, I'd say something has gone awry.
I disagree. You should be able to act the way you'd like. Punishments shouldn't be serious for offending people with harmless words.
I disagree. People should be expect to act with a minimum level of class, and be punished if they act with lack of it. People should strive to be higher and higher class. These acts of lack of class shouldn't be tolerated and should be punished and made an example of.
why? why do the people of "higher class" have the right to force there views and beliefs on us "lower class" people?
He's not using the right word but he is right. Everyone should act with a minimum amount of decency if only because that is was the majority of people expect/want from others.
I don't think anyone would argue that this man's acts were beneficial to anyone. Also, I generally assume the best in people but for those saying we don't need laws to tell people not to be dicks - we do. I would rather have laws then some culturally pressured restriction on what is right and what is wrong concerning public behavior. As for this man's actions, they are unacceptable within what is culturally acceptable and within legal boundaries (just the Korean laws though I'm sure if someone was shouting obscenities at me at the grocery store everyday, and waiting there to do so, I could get them in some sort of trouble). Now I don't think he should be put in prison for seven years. That's just stupid. But how anyone could defend him I don't know.
Any American understands that this guy getting taken to civil court for being a dick is just retarded, but this is a different country we're talking about.
You can't legislate good behavior. Good fucking luck trying. I don't defend his actions, but I will forever defend his right to be an asshole.... on American soil or at least a country that has sane laws involving some internet BM.
Interesting. I don't think that it is South Korea = insane laws regarding internet, Rest of the world = cool with insulting/bullying/harassing in the internet. Actually I think it is the other way round, even in europe you can get arrested for stuff like this, and even more severe than what the guy in South Korea is probably facing:
Germany has a very similar stand on the issue, we just have a different treshold. Calling someone an asshole (even in real life) won't necessarliy bring the cops to your door, but repeatedly harassing a woman sexually sure will do, even if it is "just" the internet and I do support this.
True, you can't legislate good behaviour but you can punish anti-social behaviour. Reminder: We are not talking about him calling her a slut once and then leaving, he did it again and again ... that is harassement. If you are a women in the states you can't do anything against this sort of behaviour? Really? What happens if she speaks out against it? Everyone will shun her because she just stirrs up drama? U.S. society is cool with something like this? I somehow can't believe this.
And relax everybody, 7 years is the max, how do laws work in the U.S.? If you are getting found guilty you always get maximum sentence? In germany there is a progression of punishment, up to x years means it is the worst case scenario if the shit really hit the fan in a hurry (you really have to work for it to get the maximum penalty in germany), I belive it is the same in Korea.
In America, we use the tools given to us to ban those insulting us in chat.
The law isn't needed for something as silly as this. US society is based on growing a spine because you have to deal with people's bullshit every day. People have their retarded religious beliefs and no matter how stupid they are, you respect them. People have stupid opinions, you respect them. People call you bad things, you deal with it. In the case of Own3d chat, you can either deal with it or ban the fucker.
Any jail sentence for calling someone a cunt or some other naughty word repeatedly on the internet is just silly.
They did ban him many times. Why should they have to ban him whenever they want to stream?
On March 31 2012 11:55 Forikorder wrote: [quote] the dude who was trolling probably doesnt give 2 cents what gender she is and was just having fun trolling if a male was doing Jessicas job and acted jsut like jessica has the dude would still have been on that chout shouting obsenities, possibly even the same ones insults are pretty universal now
the real problem with the world is people like YOU not him, he doesnt care about the gender, you do becuase Jessica is a women you consider it our job to protect her, if it was a dude you probably wouldnt care at all and jsut say he needed thicker skin, but becuase its a women allofasudden this is a big huge deal that everyone should stop and halp console Jessica after her terrible ordeal
sexism is pretty much dead, the only people keeping it alive is people who make such a huge deal over stuff like this and keep it at the top of peoples minds
Sexism is alive and well and you're deluded if you think otherwise. Legalistic equality has not seen a cultural shift to true gender equality, but it's a complex issue overall. I don't think it's fair to be characterised as some overprotective man defined by some pseudo-scientific idea of man as naturally protective. I tend to stand up against ridiculous behaviour on this forum if I'm in a particularly angry mood. Most of this relates to player/caster bashing and giving the low proportion of woman players I hardly think I'm some white-knight. I criticised the opportunities given to players like QuanticFlo because they are so blatantly non-meritocratic.
Anyhow, if people don't call out atrocious behaviour for what it actually is, then attitudes don't change. For a good example of cultural conditioning, look at the societal attitudes towards drink driving and how they have changed. At least in Ireland it used to be de rigieur to drive home while drunk as a skunk. It was 'the done thing' and nobody saw a problem with it, it took real effort for the practice to be as socially frowned upon as it now is, over years and years of government funded campaigns and grass-roots privately-supported initiatives.
Granted there is a case to be made about crying wolf racism/sexism or what have you. in this specific instance I was under the impression he was using Korean equivalents of cunt and other such pejoratives which are often applied in a misogynist manner. If wrong I stand corrected
sexism is alive becuase people want it to be
the white knights want sexism to be alive so they can pretend to defend the dainty females
females want it to be alive so they can scream it and get people in trouble
if everyone jsut forgot that women and men are different, and i mean everyone not just the people throwing insults, then sexism will disapear
Ummm what? How old are you dude? lol... You have to be trolling. No way you believe this crap. People WANT it to exist? The only people who do are those who are sexist... man... you are crazy.
he isnt wrong. Holding doors for women, paying for dinner for women, thats sexism because you're treating them differently due to their sex bits.
Prove this isnt so.
Isn't it great that the only one talking about paying for dinners and opening doors is you?
Really though, a guy comes up and says we shouldn't call women cunts. Typical response of "it's sexism to open doors too!"
Why yes it would be. It's a good thing supposed "white knights" never really argue that men should open doors for women... They really only ask that men don't treat them bad--not necessarily treat them like paragons. Hmm... I wonder why a man would think that not calling a woman a cunt is equal to treating her like royalty...
so are you saying its okay to call men cunts?
tahts the problem, why does Jessica have to be a women in this scenario? why is it about what we shouldnt be calling women? why couldnt it have been "we shouldnt call anyone cunt"?
becuase people arent interested in defending MEN there interested in defending WOMEN becuase women have painted themselves as these fragile little dainties that need to be protected, then they realised that men were taking it seriosuly, so they started wining that they were being protected like fragile little dainties, that they wanted to be treated equally, but tehy didnt want that, they wanted to be treated exactly like men except also as fragile little dainties
Cunt is a pejorative that when used in that context can take on sexist connotations, I don't see how that example is so difficult to understand.
To take your logic, I should be, as a white caucasian male, as offended by being called a nigger as somebody who is black right?
of course you should, no matter who its said to its the same word, why do you think Orb got fired?
He got fired because he lives in a society where saying someone is black is akin to saying he is a weaker/lesser/dumber human being. It must be obvious that the reason the N word is racist is because it's a word that is used to define someone as being less than human by saying they are just like negros--with the implicit understanding that negros are less than human.
no he got fired becuase he used a heavy insult and got caught
If we've reached the point as a society where we need the law to stop people from hurting other people's feelings, I'd say something has gone awry.
If we've reached the point as a society when people are allowed to be dicks as much as they want, I'd say something has gone awry.
I disagree. You should be able to act the way you'd like. Punishments shouldn't be serious for offending people with harmless words.
I disagree. People should be expect to act with a minimum level of class, and be punished if they act with lack of it. People should strive to be higher and higher class. These acts of lack of class shouldn't be tolerated and should be punished and made an example of.
why? why do the people of "higher class" have the right to force there views and beliefs on us "lower class" people?
He's not using the right word but he is right. Everyone should act with a minimum amount of decency if only because that is was the majority of people expect/want from others.
I don't think anyone would argue that this man's acts were beneficial to anyone. Also, I generally assume the best in people but for those saying we don't need laws to tell people not to be dicks - we do. I would rather have laws then some culturally pressured restriction on what is right and what is wrong concerning public behavior. As for this man's actions, they are unacceptable within what is culturally acceptable and within legal boundaries (just the Korean laws though I'm sure if someone was shouting obscenities at me at the grocery store everyday, and waiting there to do so, I could get them in some sort of trouble). Now I don't think he should be put in prison for seven years. That's just stupid. But how anyone could defend him I don't know.
Any American understands that this guy getting taken to civil court for being a dick is just retarded, but this is a different country we're talking about.
You can't legislate good behavior. Good fucking luck trying. I don't defend his actions, but I will forever defend his right to be an asshole.... on American soil or at least a country that has sane laws involving some internet BM.
Interesting. I don't think that it is South Korea = insane laws regarding internet, Rest of the world = cool with insulting/bullying/harassing in the internet. Actually I think it is the other way round, even in europe you can get arrested for stuff like this, and even more severe than what the guy in South Korea is probably facing:
Germany has a very similar stand on the issue, we just have a different treshold. Calling someone an asshole (even in real life) won't necessarliy bring the cops to your door, but repeatedly harassing a woman sexually sure will do, even if it is "just" the internet and I do support this.
True, you can't legislate good behaviour but you can punish anti-social behaviour. Reminder: We are not talking about him calling her a slut once and then leaving, he did it again and again ... that is harassement. If you are a women in the states you can't do anything against this sort of behaviour? Really? What happens if she speaks out against it? Everyone will shun her because she just stirrs up drama? U.S. society is cool with something like this? I somehow can't believe this.
And relax everybody, 7 years is the max, how do laws work in the U.S.? If you are getting found guilty you always get maximum sentence? In germany there is a progression of punishment, up to x years means it is the worst case scenario if the shit really hit the fan in a hurry (you really have to work for it to get the maximum penalty in germany), I belive it is the same in Korea.
In America, we use the tools given to us to ban those insulting us in chat.
The law isn't needed for something as silly as this. US society is based on growing a spine because you have to deal with people's bullshit every day. People have their retarded religious beliefs and no matter how stupid they are, you respect them. People have stupid opinions, you respect them. People call you bad things, you deal with it. In the case of Own3d chat, you can either deal with it or ban the fucker.
Any jail sentence for calling someone a cunt or some other naughty word repeatedly on the internet is just silly.
They did ban him many times. Why should they have to ban him whenever they want to stream?
what kind of terrible ban system forgets people who are banned so quickly?
If we've reached the point as a society where we need the law to stop people from hurting other people's feelings, I'd say something has gone awry.
If we've reached the point as a society when people are allowed to be dicks as much as they want, I'd say something has gone awry.
I disagree. You should be able to act the way you'd like. Punishments shouldn't be serious for offending people with harmless words.
I disagree. People should be expect to act with a minimum level of class, and be punished if they act with lack of it. People should strive to be higher and higher class. These acts of lack of class shouldn't be tolerated and should be punished and made an example of.
why? why do the people of "higher class" have the right to force there views and beliefs on us "lower class" people?
He's not using the right word but he is right. Everyone should act with a minimum amount of decency if only because that is was the majority of people expect/want from others.
I don't think anyone would argue that this man's acts were beneficial to anyone. Also, I generally assume the best in people but for those saying we don't need laws to tell people not to be dicks - we do. I would rather have laws then some culturally pressured restriction on what is right and what is wrong concerning public behavior. As for this man's actions, they are unacceptable within what is culturally acceptable and within legal boundaries (just the Korean laws though I'm sure if someone was shouting obscenities at me at the grocery store everyday, and waiting there to do so, I could get them in some sort of trouble). Now I don't think he should be put in prison for seven years. That's just stupid. But how anyone could defend him I don't know.
Any American understands that this guy getting taken to civil court for being a dick is just retarded, but this is a different country we're talking about.
You can't legislate good behavior. Good fucking luck trying. I don't defend his actions, but I will forever defend his right to be an asshole.... on American soil or at least a country that has sane laws involving some internet BM.
Interesting. I don't think that it is South Korea = insane laws regarding internet, Rest of the world = cool with insulting/bullying/harassing in the internet. Actually I think it is the other way round, even in europe you can get arrested for stuff like this, and even more severe than what the guy in South Korea is probably facing:
Germany has a very similar stand on the issue, we just have a different treshold. Calling someone an asshole (even in real life) won't necessarliy bring the cops to your door, but repeatedly harassing a woman sexually sure will do, even if it is "just" the internet and I do support this.
True, you can't legislate good behaviour but you can punish anti-social behaviour. Reminder: We are not talking about him calling her a slut once and then leaving, he did it again and again ... that is harassement. If you are a women in the states you can't do anything against this sort of behaviour? Really? What happens if she speaks out against it? Everyone will shun her because she just stirrs up drama? U.S. society is cool with something like this? I somehow can't believe this.
And relax everybody, 7 years is the max, how do laws work in the U.S.? If you are getting found guilty you always get maximum sentence? In germany there is a progression of punishment, up to x years means it is the worst case scenario if the shit really hit the fan in a hurry (you really have to work for it to get the maximum penalty in germany), I belive it is the same in Korea.
In America, we use the tools given to us to ban those insulting us in chat.
The law isn't needed for something as silly as this. US society is based on growing a spine because you have to deal with people's bullshit every day. People have their retarded religious beliefs and no matter how stupid they are, you respect them. People have stupid opinions, you respect them. People call you bad things, you deal with it. In the case of Own3d chat, you can either deal with it or ban the fucker.
Any jail sentence for calling someone a cunt or some other naughty word repeatedly on the internet is just silly.
They did ban him many times. Why should they have to ban him whenever they want to stream?
For the same reason people have to ban people constantly in other streams. That's the way stream moderation works. You can try and question why I feel they're obligated to ban someone, but if they can't handle the obligation they have to moderate their stream chat, they shouldn't be streaming. You make it out as if this is the only stream it happens on.
EPT
