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On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
No Protoss doesn't need 3 hotkeys.... when I play Toss I have my entire army on 1 and just use tab to switch between storms and forcefields, the rest of the army (chargelots, collossi, archons, what have you) can literally be a moved. If the collossi somehow run too far upfront i jut double click them and pull them back, that is all I personally do when I engage with protoss in any matchup rly. That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too.
Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_=
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I liked the part where they nerfed terran before fixing the map pool and seeing how it played.
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On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
No Protoss doesn't need 3 hotkeys.... when I play Toss I have my entire army on 1 and just use tab to switch between storms and forcefields, the rest of the army (chargelots, collossi, archons, what have you) can literally be a moved. If the collossi somehow run too far upfront i jut double click them and pull them back, that is all I personally do when I engage with protoss in any matchup rly. That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_=
What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do?
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On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
No Protoss doesn't need 3 hotkeys.... when I play Toss I have my entire army on 1 and just use tab to switch between storms and forcefields, the rest of the army (chargelots, collossi, archons, what have you) can literally be a moved. If the collossi somehow run too far upfront i jut double click them and pull them back, that is all I personally do when I engage with protoss in any matchup rly. That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do?
Watch hero and MC. At various points in pvt they have groups of 1) z se imm, 2) stalker, and 3 ht. The reason is 1) drop D and 2) stalkers can attack ghosts 3) Stalkers can harass w/ impunity once they have blink. Huk goes so far as to use a separate hk for colli.
As for zeal charge, nobody does that ttbomk. you can simply select your zealots and use the move or hold command to prevent them from charging.
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On March 16 2012 09:58 SovietHammer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 09:49 scypio wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
Well if terran need 3 control groups then protoss needs 3 as well
Their gateways, their ht and their colossus.
Mechanics for terran have been the same since the game came out and in that time terran has gone from the easiest race to play to the most difficult race to play on this forum.
Yet none of the basic mechanics have changed and all patches where minor (1 range more here, a few sec building time there, its nothing big)
Am not saying that terran is not the hardest race to play btw, i realy have no clue about that. Yeah, the terrans had just a couple of nerfs: Battlecruiser: Ground damage decreased from 10 to 8. Bunker: Build time increased from 30 to 35. Reaper: Build time increased from 40 to 45. Siege Tank: Siege mode damage changed from 50 to 35 (+15 armored). Siege Tank: Upgrade damage changed from +5 to +3 (+2 armored). Barracks requirement changed from Command Center to Supply Depot. Medivac: Acceleration reduced from 2.315 to 2.25. Medivac: Speed reduced from 2.75 to 2.5. Reaper: Nitro Packs speed upgrade now has a Factory Requirement. SCV: Repairing SCVs now assume the same threat priority as the unit they’re repairing. Bunker: Build time increased from 35 to 40 seconds. Ghost: EMP now drains up to 100 energy instead of all available energy. The effect on Protoss shields remains unchanged. Tech Lab: Stimpack upgrade research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds. Bunker: Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%. Ghost: Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100. Thor: Thor now has 200 max energy, and starts with 50 energy. Thor: 250mm Strike Cannons now cost 150 energy to use (cooldown removed). Barracks: Build time increased from 60 to 65. Hellion: Infernal Pre-Igniter damage upgrade decreased from 10 to 5. Ghost: EMP radius has been decreased from 2 to 1.5 Ghost: Snipe damage changed from 45 to 25 (+25 vs Psionic). Orbital Command Center: MULE now always returns 30 minerals per trip, regardless of mineral type. ... and the biggest nerf: the map pool, which is not suitable for early aggression anymore. TLDR: terran early aggression options were vastly limited while terran lategame sucks. Wow that really puts a lot in perspectice.
Yeah, now there win rate is close to 50%, like it should be. Now they can fix issues like late game or other problems.
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On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
No Protoss doesn't need 3 hotkeys.... when I play Toss I have my entire army on 1 and just use tab to switch between storms and forcefields, the rest of the army (chargelots, collossi, archons, what have you) can literally be a moved. If the collossi somehow run too far upfront i jut double click them and pull them back, that is all I personally do when I engage with protoss in any matchup rly. That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do?
It's very common to have 3 control groups for good Protosses.
You want your blink stalkers in one group, they're very mobile and can actually leave the "ball" temporarily to harass the Terran army or bases (like pick off a stray ghost or medivac and blink back). Then your zealot/sentries in one group too. The third is used for Colossus before templars, for quick access to them. Then when you have templars, you can put your colossi with the zealots and micro them with the mouse, and give the templars their own control group.
That's 3 reasonable control groups that many Protoss use. Add to that one for a warpprism, which is not that rare in all P matchups nowadays.
HuK for example uses 1: zealot/sentries, 2: stalkers, 3: colossi, 4: templars.
And we definitely already saw charge being turned off to not waste it or to hide the tech (although chargelots have a higher movement speed so it's kinda silly). Mostly it's to not waste the charge.
Charge cannot be used on manual per say, you need to target a unit with it. Obviously you don't want 20 chargelots to run on 1 marine.
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On March 16 2012 11:11 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
No Protoss doesn't need 3 hotkeys.... when I play Toss I have my entire army on 1 and just use tab to switch between storms and forcefields, the rest of the army (chargelots, collossi, archons, what have you) can literally be a moved. If the collossi somehow run too far upfront i jut double click them and pull them back, that is all I personally do when I engage with protoss in any matchup rly. That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do? It's very common to have 3 control groups for good Protosses. You want your blink stalkers in one group, they're very mobile and can actually leave the "ball" temporarily to harass the Terran army or bases (like pick off a stray ghost or medivac and blink back). Then your zealot/sentries in one group too. The third is used for Colossus before templars, for quick access to them. Then when you have templars, you can put your colossi with the zealots and micro them with the mouse, and give the templars their own control group. That's 3 reasonable control groups that many Protoss use. Add to that one for a warpprism, which is not that rare in all P matchups nowadays. HuK for example uses 1: zealot/sentries, 2: stalkers, 3: colossi, 4: templars. And we definitely already saw charge being turned off to not waste it or to hide the tech (although chargelots have a higher movement speed so it's kinda silly). Mostly it's to not waste the charge. Charge cannot be used on manual per say, you need to target a unit with it. Obviously you don't want 20 chargelots to run on 1 marine.
Good protosses. You say it. But any random master protoss is just fine with 1 control group, whereas every terran even in platinum league effectively NEEDS 3 control groups. That is a huge difference. The fact that you need something and it's not just optional. hence why protoss is much easier, they can decide to use 3 control groups but unless they play at the very top level they absolutely dont need to. What part of that is it that people dont get?
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On March 16 2012 09:58 SovietHammer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 09:49 scypio wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
Well if terran need 3 control groups then protoss needs 3 as well
Their gateways, their ht and their colossus.
Mechanics for terran have been the same since the game came out and in that time terran has gone from the easiest race to play to the most difficult race to play on this forum.
Yet none of the basic mechanics have changed and all patches where minor (1 range more here, a few sec building time there, its nothing big)
Am not saying that terran is not the hardest race to play btw, i realy have no clue about that. Yeah, the terrans had just a couple of nerfs: Battlecruiser: Ground damage decreased from 10 to 8. Bunker: Build time increased from 30 to 35. Reaper: Build time increased from 40 to 45. Siege Tank: Siege mode damage changed from 50 to 35 (+15 armored). Siege Tank: Upgrade damage changed from +5 to +3 (+2 armored). Barracks requirement changed from Command Center to Supply Depot. Medivac: Acceleration reduced from 2.315 to 2.25. Medivac: Speed reduced from 2.75 to 2.5. Reaper: Nitro Packs speed upgrade now has a Factory Requirement. SCV: Repairing SCVs now assume the same threat priority as the unit they’re repairing. Bunker: Build time increased from 35 to 40 seconds. Ghost: EMP now drains up to 100 energy instead of all available energy. The effect on Protoss shields remains unchanged. Tech Lab: Stimpack upgrade research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds. Bunker: Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%. Ghost: Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100. Thor: Thor now has 200 max energy, and starts with 50 energy. Thor: 250mm Strike Cannons now cost 150 energy to use (cooldown removed). Barracks: Build time increased from 60 to 65. Hellion: Infernal Pre-Igniter damage upgrade decreased from 10 to 5. Ghost: EMP radius has been decreased from 2 to 1.5 Ghost: Snipe damage changed from 45 to 25 (+25 vs Psionic). Orbital Command Center: MULE now always returns 30 minerals per trip, regardless of mineral type. ... and the biggest nerf: the map pool, which is not suitable for early aggression anymore. TLDR: terran early aggression options were vastly limited while terran lategame sucks. Wow that really puts a lot in perspectice.
Oh ffs...
The number of nerfs don't mean shit if they're warranted. Why are you completely ignoring the fact that historically, Terran has absolutely raped both Protoss and Zerg all across the board? The nerfs were needed.
Let's say you and I are identical units attacking each other (same attack speed, same movement speed, same range, same health, etc.), except you do 10 damage and I do 100 damage. I'm clearly stronger than you. If we were to become balanced, 1 patch could fix it (nerf me 90 damage, or 1/10 of my damage, whatever), but what if baby steps were taken and it took several patches to nerf me down to 10 damage:
1.0- I deal 100 damage
1.1- Remove 50% of my damage (omg so unfair wtf? QQ) I deal 50 damage
1.2- Remove 10 more damage (another nerf? not fair...) I deal 40 damage
1.3- Halve my damage again (so ridiculous... Blizzard clearly hates me and looooves you x.x) I deal 20 damage
1.4- Remove another 10 damage (fuck this game i hate my life) I deal 10 damage- same as you.
Same line of reasoning. They were required to make us balanced. All the patches, to all the races. Whether it's one nerf or ten, we need to get all the races even, and Terran had been severely overpowered for an incredibly long period of time. Now they finally have under a 50% win rate, and there's all this whining. You guys'll figure it out like you always do. Terran can't beat late game Zerg, and then mech shows up. Protoss late game OP, and then Terran rolls Protoss by engaging well. Seriously, look at the stats. Terran hasn't had it bad yet. Certainly not compared to Protoss or Zerg anyway.
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On March 16 2012 11:21 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 11:11 ZenithM wrote:On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
No Protoss doesn't need 3 hotkeys.... when I play Toss I have my entire army on 1 and just use tab to switch between storms and forcefields, the rest of the army (chargelots, collossi, archons, what have you) can literally be a moved. If the collossi somehow run too far upfront i jut double click them and pull them back, that is all I personally do when I engage with protoss in any matchup rly. That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do? It's very common to have 3 control groups for good Protosses. You want your blink stalkers in one group, they're very mobile and can actually leave the "ball" temporarily to harass the Terran army or bases (like pick off a stray ghost or medivac and blink back). Then your zealot/sentries in one group too. The third is used for Colossus before templars, for quick access to them. Then when you have templars, you can put your colossi with the zealots and micro them with the mouse, and give the templars their own control group. That's 3 reasonable control groups that many Protoss use. Add to that one for a warpprism, which is not that rare in all P matchups nowadays. HuK for example uses 1: zealot/sentries, 2: stalkers, 3: colossi, 4: templars. And we definitely already saw charge being turned off to not waste it or to hide the tech (although chargelots have a higher movement speed so it's kinda silly). Mostly it's to not waste the charge. Charge cannot be used on manual per say, you need to target a unit with it. Obviously you don't want 20 chargelots to run on 1 marine. Good protosses. You say it. But any random master protoss is just fine with 1 control group, whereas every terran even in platinum league effectively NEEDS 3 control groups. That is a huge difference. The fact that you need something and it's not just optional. hence why protoss is much easier, they can decide to use 3 control groups but unless they play at the very top level they absolutely dont need to. What part of that is it that people dont get?
Just felt like pointing out that that's ridiculous.
Your nexuses are always hotkeyed.
Your army (non-spellcasters) are always hotkeyed.
Your spellcasters are hotkeyed separately.
And your robo(s).
And guess what? Fucking W counts as a hotkey. Yeah, I said it. If you get to use a number for your barracks, then W sure in hell counts as a control group for my warpgates- especially since I need to leave my current screen (which is a battle half the time) and warp-in. So W counts as one.
And those are just basic hotkeys.
What what.
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On March 16 2012 11:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 11:21 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:11 ZenithM wrote:On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
No Protoss doesn't need 3 hotkeys.... when I play Toss I have my entire army on 1 and just use tab to switch between storms and forcefields, the rest of the army (chargelots, collossi, archons, what have you) can literally be a moved. If the collossi somehow run too far upfront i jut double click them and pull them back, that is all I personally do when I engage with protoss in any matchup rly. That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do? It's very common to have 3 control groups for good Protosses. You want your blink stalkers in one group, they're very mobile and can actually leave the "ball" temporarily to harass the Terran army or bases (like pick off a stray ghost or medivac and blink back). Then your zealot/sentries in one group too. The third is used for Colossus before templars, for quick access to them. Then when you have templars, you can put your colossi with the zealots and micro them with the mouse, and give the templars their own control group. That's 3 reasonable control groups that many Protoss use. Add to that one for a warpprism, which is not that rare in all P matchups nowadays. HuK for example uses 1: zealot/sentries, 2: stalkers, 3: colossi, 4: templars. And we definitely already saw charge being turned off to not waste it or to hide the tech (although chargelots have a higher movement speed so it's kinda silly). Mostly it's to not waste the charge. Charge cannot be used on manual per say, you need to target a unit with it. Obviously you don't want 20 chargelots to run on 1 marine. Good protosses. You say it. But any random master protoss is just fine with 1 control group, whereas every terran even in platinum league effectively NEEDS 3 control groups. That is a huge difference. The fact that you need something and it's not just optional. hence why protoss is much easier, they can decide to use 3 control groups but unless they play at the very top level they absolutely dont need to. What part of that is it that people dont get? Just felt like pointing out that that's ridiculous. Your nexuses are always hotkeyed. Your army (non-spellcasters) are always hotkeyed. Your spellcasters are hotkeyed separately. And your robo(s). And guess what? Fucking W counts as a hotkey. Yeah, I said it. If you get to use a number for your barracks, then W sure in hell counts as a control group for my warpgates- especially since I need to leave my current screen (which is a battle half the time) and warp-in. So W counts as one. And those are just basic hotkeys. What what.
Army hotkeys. You need exactly 1.
You dont have to put spellcasters on a seperate hotkey, there is no need to. Absolutely no need at all.
Control Groups, control groups, army, army, comprendo?
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On March 16 2012 11:45 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 11:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:21 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:11 ZenithM wrote:On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
No Protoss doesn't need 3 hotkeys.... when I play Toss I have my entire army on 1 and just use tab to switch between storms and forcefields, the rest of the army (chargelots, collossi, archons, what have you) can literally be a moved. If the collossi somehow run too far upfront i jut double click them and pull them back, that is all I personally do when I engage with protoss in any matchup rly. That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do? It's very common to have 3 control groups for good Protosses. You want your blink stalkers in one group, they're very mobile and can actually leave the "ball" temporarily to harass the Terran army or bases (like pick off a stray ghost or medivac and blink back). Then your zealot/sentries in one group too. The third is used for Colossus before templars, for quick access to them. Then when you have templars, you can put your colossi with the zealots and micro them with the mouse, and give the templars their own control group. That's 3 reasonable control groups that many Protoss use. Add to that one for a warpprism, which is not that rare in all P matchups nowadays. HuK for example uses 1: zealot/sentries, 2: stalkers, 3: colossi, 4: templars. And we definitely already saw charge being turned off to not waste it or to hide the tech (although chargelots have a higher movement speed so it's kinda silly). Mostly it's to not waste the charge. Charge cannot be used on manual per say, you need to target a unit with it. Obviously you don't want 20 chargelots to run on 1 marine. Good protosses. You say it. But any random master protoss is just fine with 1 control group, whereas every terran even in platinum league effectively NEEDS 3 control groups. That is a huge difference. The fact that you need something and it's not just optional. hence why protoss is much easier, they can decide to use 3 control groups but unless they play at the very top level they absolutely dont need to. What part of that is it that people dont get? Just felt like pointing out that that's ridiculous. Your nexuses are always hotkeyed. Your army (non-spellcasters) are always hotkeyed. Your spellcasters are hotkeyed separately. And your robo(s). And guess what? Fucking W counts as a hotkey. Yeah, I said it. If you get to use a number for your barracks, then W sure in hell counts as a control group for my warpgates- especially since I need to leave my current screen (which is a battle half the time) and warp-in. So W counts as one. And those are just basic hotkeys. What what. Army hotkeys. You need exactly 1. You dont have to put spellcasters on a seperate hotkey, there is no need to. Absolutely no need at all. Control Groups, control groups, army, army, comprendo?
So, terrans only need 1 hot key? Stim + A move. Medavac's auto heal, vikings fly over the army. Stim to win. Understand?
See, we can argue like that too, but choose to make better arguments. But I understand that your point is not to make a well formed argument that is clearly thought out.
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On March 16 2012 11:45 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 11:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:21 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:11 ZenithM wrote:On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
No Protoss doesn't need 3 hotkeys.... when I play Toss I have my entire army on 1 and just use tab to switch between storms and forcefields, the rest of the army (chargelots, collossi, archons, what have you) can literally be a moved. If the collossi somehow run too far upfront i jut double click them and pull them back, that is all I personally do when I engage with protoss in any matchup rly. That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do? It's very common to have 3 control groups for good Protosses. You want your blink stalkers in one group, they're very mobile and can actually leave the "ball" temporarily to harass the Terran army or bases (like pick off a stray ghost or medivac and blink back). Then your zealot/sentries in one group too. The third is used for Colossus before templars, for quick access to them. Then when you have templars, you can put your colossi with the zealots and micro them with the mouse, and give the templars their own control group. That's 3 reasonable control groups that many Protoss use. Add to that one for a warpprism, which is not that rare in all P matchups nowadays. HuK for example uses 1: zealot/sentries, 2: stalkers, 3: colossi, 4: templars. And we definitely already saw charge being turned off to not waste it or to hide the tech (although chargelots have a higher movement speed so it's kinda silly). Mostly it's to not waste the charge. Charge cannot be used on manual per say, you need to target a unit with it. Obviously you don't want 20 chargelots to run on 1 marine. Good protosses. You say it. But any random master protoss is just fine with 1 control group, whereas every terran even in platinum league effectively NEEDS 3 control groups. That is a huge difference. The fact that you need something and it's not just optional. hence why protoss is much easier, they can decide to use 3 control groups but unless they play at the very top level they absolutely dont need to. What part of that is it that people dont get? Just felt like pointing out that that's ridiculous. Your nexuses are always hotkeyed. Your army (non-spellcasters) are always hotkeyed. Your spellcasters are hotkeyed separately. And your robo(s). And guess what? Fucking W counts as a hotkey. Yeah, I said it. If you get to use a number for your barracks, then W sure in hell counts as a control group for my warpgates- especially since I need to leave my current screen (which is a battle half the time) and warp-in. So W counts as one. And those are just basic hotkeys. What what. Army hotkeys. You need exactly 1. You dont have to put spellcasters on a seperate hotkey, there is no need to. Absolutely no need at all. Control Groups, control groups, army, army, comprendo?
I assume you have ghosts on a different hotkey than the rest of your bio because you want to be able to stim and still use ghost abilities, right? How do you think Protoss players use both sentries and high templar effectively? And blink...
Sure, you could try to get away with not using multiple control groups by double-clicking on the desired units really fast (whether your Terran or Protoss), but when everything's clumped together or firing, you're gonna want to have easy access to units that have important abilities. I'm not saying that either race *needs* to have everything on different hotkeys, but there's no reason why Terran should have any *more* hotkeys for their army, considering Protoss has more spellcasters and more units that move at varying speeds.
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On March 16 2012 11:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 11:45 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:21 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:11 ZenithM wrote:On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
No Protoss doesn't need 3 hotkeys.... when I play Toss I have my entire army on 1 and just use tab to switch between storms and forcefields, the rest of the army (chargelots, collossi, archons, what have you) can literally be a moved. If the collossi somehow run too far upfront i jut double click them and pull them back, that is all I personally do when I engage with protoss in any matchup rly. That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do? It's very common to have 3 control groups for good Protosses. You want your blink stalkers in one group, they're very mobile and can actually leave the "ball" temporarily to harass the Terran army or bases (like pick off a stray ghost or medivac and blink back). Then your zealot/sentries in one group too. The third is used for Colossus before templars, for quick access to them. Then when you have templars, you can put your colossi with the zealots and micro them with the mouse, and give the templars their own control group. That's 3 reasonable control groups that many Protoss use. Add to that one for a warpprism, which is not that rare in all P matchups nowadays. HuK for example uses 1: zealot/sentries, 2: stalkers, 3: colossi, 4: templars. And we definitely already saw charge being turned off to not waste it or to hide the tech (although chargelots have a higher movement speed so it's kinda silly). Mostly it's to not waste the charge. Charge cannot be used on manual per say, you need to target a unit with it. Obviously you don't want 20 chargelots to run on 1 marine. Good protosses. You say it. But any random master protoss is just fine with 1 control group, whereas every terran even in platinum league effectively NEEDS 3 control groups. That is a huge difference. The fact that you need something and it's not just optional. hence why protoss is much easier, they can decide to use 3 control groups but unless they play at the very top level they absolutely dont need to. What part of that is it that people dont get? Just felt like pointing out that that's ridiculous. Your nexuses are always hotkeyed. Your army (non-spellcasters) are always hotkeyed. Your spellcasters are hotkeyed separately. And your robo(s). And guess what? Fucking W counts as a hotkey. Yeah, I said it. If you get to use a number for your barracks, then W sure in hell counts as a control group for my warpgates- especially since I need to leave my current screen (which is a battle half the time) and warp-in. So W counts as one. And those are just basic hotkeys. What what. Army hotkeys. You need exactly 1. You dont have to put spellcasters on a seperate hotkey, there is no need to. Absolutely no need at all. Control Groups, control groups, army, army, comprendo? I assume you have ghosts on a different hotkey than the rest of your bio because you want to be able to stim and still use ghost abilities, right? How do you think Protoss players use both sentries and high templar effectively? And blink... Sure, you could try to get away with not using multiple control groups by double-clicking on the desired units really fast (whether your Terran or Protoss), but when everything's clumped together or firing, you're gonna want to have easy access to units that have important abilities. I'm not saying that either race *needs* to have everything on different hotkeys, but there's no reason why Terran should have any *more* hotkeys for their army, considering Protoss has more spellcasters and more units that move at varying speeds.
There is nothing worse than trying to blink your stalkers and throwing down an FF instead.
Also, why are you trying to argue with him? Did you see his last post. Clearly, no argument you can make will change his mind. He is convinced loses every game to protoss because the race is just way to easy, while terran is for people with 7 fingers and 250+ apm.
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On March 16 2012 11:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 11:45 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:21 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:11 ZenithM wrote:On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
No Protoss doesn't need 3 hotkeys.... when I play Toss I have my entire army on 1 and just use tab to switch between storms and forcefields, the rest of the army (chargelots, collossi, archons, what have you) can literally be a moved. If the collossi somehow run too far upfront i jut double click them and pull them back, that is all I personally do when I engage with protoss in any matchup rly. That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do? It's very common to have 3 control groups for good Protosses. You want your blink stalkers in one group, they're very mobile and can actually leave the "ball" temporarily to harass the Terran army or bases (like pick off a stray ghost or medivac and blink back). Then your zealot/sentries in one group too. The third is used for Colossus before templars, for quick access to them. Then when you have templars, you can put your colossi with the zealots and micro them with the mouse, and give the templars their own control group. That's 3 reasonable control groups that many Protoss use. Add to that one for a warpprism, which is not that rare in all P matchups nowadays. HuK for example uses 1: zealot/sentries, 2: stalkers, 3: colossi, 4: templars. And we definitely already saw charge being turned off to not waste it or to hide the tech (although chargelots have a higher movement speed so it's kinda silly). Mostly it's to not waste the charge. Charge cannot be used on manual per say, you need to target a unit with it. Obviously you don't want 20 chargelots to run on 1 marine. Good protosses. You say it. But any random master protoss is just fine with 1 control group, whereas every terran even in platinum league effectively NEEDS 3 control groups. That is a huge difference. The fact that you need something and it's not just optional. hence why protoss is much easier, they can decide to use 3 control groups but unless they play at the very top level they absolutely dont need to. What part of that is it that people dont get? Just felt like pointing out that that's ridiculous. Your nexuses are always hotkeyed. Your army (non-spellcasters) are always hotkeyed. Your spellcasters are hotkeyed separately. And your robo(s). And guess what? Fucking W counts as a hotkey. Yeah, I said it. If you get to use a number for your barracks, then W sure in hell counts as a control group for my warpgates- especially since I need to leave my current screen (which is a battle half the time) and warp-in. So W counts as one. And those are just basic hotkeys. What what. Army hotkeys. You need exactly 1. You dont have to put spellcasters on a seperate hotkey, there is no need to. Absolutely no need at all. Control Groups, control groups, army, army, comprendo? I assume you have ghosts on a different hotkey than the rest of your bio because you want to be able to stim and still use ghost abilities, right? How do you think Protoss players use both sentries and high templar effectively? And blink... Sure, you could try to get away with not using multiple control groups by double-clicking on the desired units really fast (whether your Terran or Protoss), but when everything's clumped together or firing, you're gonna want to have easy access to units that have important abilities. I'm not saying that either race *needs* to have everything on different hotkeys, but there's no reason why Terran should have any *more* hotkeys for their army, considering Protoss has more spellcasters and more units that move at varying speeds.
or you can just use tab...........
On March 16 2012 11:57 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 11:45 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:21 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:11 ZenithM wrote:On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
No Protoss doesn't need 3 hotkeys.... when I play Toss I have my entire army on 1 and just use tab to switch between storms and forcefields, the rest of the army (chargelots, collossi, archons, what have you) can literally be a moved. If the collossi somehow run too far upfront i jut double click them and pull them back, that is all I personally do when I engage with protoss in any matchup rly. That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do? It's very common to have 3 control groups for good Protosses. You want your blink stalkers in one group, they're very mobile and can actually leave the "ball" temporarily to harass the Terran army or bases (like pick off a stray ghost or medivac and blink back). Then your zealot/sentries in one group too. The third is used for Colossus before templars, for quick access to them. Then when you have templars, you can put your colossi with the zealots and micro them with the mouse, and give the templars their own control group. That's 3 reasonable control groups that many Protoss use. Add to that one for a warpprism, which is not that rare in all P matchups nowadays. HuK for example uses 1: zealot/sentries, 2: stalkers, 3: colossi, 4: templars. And we definitely already saw charge being turned off to not waste it or to hide the tech (although chargelots have a higher movement speed so it's kinda silly). Mostly it's to not waste the charge. Charge cannot be used on manual per say, you need to target a unit with it. Obviously you don't want 20 chargelots to run on 1 marine. Good protosses. You say it. But any random master protoss is just fine with 1 control group, whereas every terran even in platinum league effectively NEEDS 3 control groups. That is a huge difference. The fact that you need something and it's not just optional. hence why protoss is much easier, they can decide to use 3 control groups but unless they play at the very top level they absolutely dont need to. What part of that is it that people dont get? Just felt like pointing out that that's ridiculous. Your nexuses are always hotkeyed. Your army (non-spellcasters) are always hotkeyed. Your spellcasters are hotkeyed separately. And your robo(s). And guess what? Fucking W counts as a hotkey. Yeah, I said it. If you get to use a number for your barracks, then W sure in hell counts as a control group for my warpgates- especially since I need to leave my current screen (which is a battle half the time) and warp-in. So W counts as one. And those are just basic hotkeys. What what. Army hotkeys. You need exactly 1. You dont have to put spellcasters on a seperate hotkey, there is no need to. Absolutely no need at all. Control Groups, control groups, army, army, comprendo? So, terrans only need 1 hot key? Stim + A move. Medavac's auto heal, vikings fly over the army. Stim to win. Understand? See, we can argue like that too, but choose to make better arguments. But I understand that your point is not to make a well formed argument that is clearly thought out.
terran has to stutter step, protoss is the one a moving with collossi, chargelots and archons
On March 16 2012 12:01 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 11:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:45 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:21 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:11 ZenithM wrote:On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
No Protoss doesn't need 3 hotkeys.... when I play Toss I have my entire army on 1 and just use tab to switch between storms and forcefields, the rest of the army (chargelots, collossi, archons, what have you) can literally be a moved. If the collossi somehow run too far upfront i jut double click them and pull them back, that is all I personally do when I engage with protoss in any matchup rly. That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do? It's very common to have 3 control groups for good Protosses. You want your blink stalkers in one group, they're very mobile and can actually leave the "ball" temporarily to harass the Terran army or bases (like pick off a stray ghost or medivac and blink back). Then your zealot/sentries in one group too. The third is used for Colossus before templars, for quick access to them. Then when you have templars, you can put your colossi with the zealots and micro them with the mouse, and give the templars their own control group. That's 3 reasonable control groups that many Protoss use. Add to that one for a warpprism, which is not that rare in all P matchups nowadays. HuK for example uses 1: zealot/sentries, 2: stalkers, 3: colossi, 4: templars. And we definitely already saw charge being turned off to not waste it or to hide the tech (although chargelots have a higher movement speed so it's kinda silly). Mostly it's to not waste the charge. Charge cannot be used on manual per say, you need to target a unit with it. Obviously you don't want 20 chargelots to run on 1 marine. Good protosses. You say it. But any random master protoss is just fine with 1 control group, whereas every terran even in platinum league effectively NEEDS 3 control groups. That is a huge difference. The fact that you need something and it's not just optional. hence why protoss is much easier, they can decide to use 3 control groups but unless they play at the very top level they absolutely dont need to. What part of that is it that people dont get? Just felt like pointing out that that's ridiculous. Your nexuses are always hotkeyed. Your army (non-spellcasters) are always hotkeyed. Your spellcasters are hotkeyed separately. And your robo(s). And guess what? Fucking W counts as a hotkey. Yeah, I said it. If you get to use a number for your barracks, then W sure in hell counts as a control group for my warpgates- especially since I need to leave my current screen (which is a battle half the time) and warp-in. So W counts as one. And those are just basic hotkeys. What what. Army hotkeys. You need exactly 1. You dont have to put spellcasters on a seperate hotkey, there is no need to. Absolutely no need at all. Control Groups, control groups, army, army, comprendo? I assume you have ghosts on a different hotkey than the rest of your bio because you want to be able to stim and still use ghost abilities, right? How do you think Protoss players use both sentries and high templar effectively? And blink... Sure, you could try to get away with not using multiple control groups by double-clicking on the desired units really fast (whether your Terran or Protoss), but when everything's clumped together or firing, you're gonna want to have easy access to units that have important abilities. I'm not saying that either race *needs* to have everything on different hotkeys, but there's no reason why Terran should have any *more* hotkeys for their army, considering Protoss has more spellcasters and more units that move at varying speeds. There is nothing worse than trying to blink your stalkers and throwing down an FF instead. Also, why are you trying to argue with him? Did you see his last post. Clearly, no argument you can make will change his mind. He is convinced loses every game to protoss because the race is just way to easy, while terran is for people with 7 fingers and 250+ apm.
I main protoss now and I can definitively tell you that protoss is much easier to play than terran. I have first hand experience with that.
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On March 16 2012 11:57 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 11:45 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:21 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:11 ZenithM wrote:On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
No Protoss doesn't need 3 hotkeys.... when I play Toss I have my entire army on 1 and just use tab to switch between storms and forcefields, the rest of the army (chargelots, collossi, archons, what have you) can literally be a moved. If the collossi somehow run too far upfront i jut double click them and pull them back, that is all I personally do when I engage with protoss in any matchup rly. That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do? It's very common to have 3 control groups for good Protosses. You want your blink stalkers in one group, they're very mobile and can actually leave the "ball" temporarily to harass the Terran army or bases (like pick off a stray ghost or medivac and blink back). Then your zealot/sentries in one group too. The third is used for Colossus before templars, for quick access to them. Then when you have templars, you can put your colossi with the zealots and micro them with the mouse, and give the templars their own control group. That's 3 reasonable control groups that many Protoss use. Add to that one for a warpprism, which is not that rare in all P matchups nowadays. HuK for example uses 1: zealot/sentries, 2: stalkers, 3: colossi, 4: templars. And we definitely already saw charge being turned off to not waste it or to hide the tech (although chargelots have a higher movement speed so it's kinda silly). Mostly it's to not waste the charge. Charge cannot be used on manual per say, you need to target a unit with it. Obviously you don't want 20 chargelots to run on 1 marine. Good protosses. You say it. But any random master protoss is just fine with 1 control group, whereas every terran even in platinum league effectively NEEDS 3 control groups. That is a huge difference. The fact that you need something and it's not just optional. hence why protoss is much easier, they can decide to use 3 control groups but unless they play at the very top level they absolutely dont need to. What part of that is it that people dont get? Just felt like pointing out that that's ridiculous. Your nexuses are always hotkeyed. Your army (non-spellcasters) are always hotkeyed. Your spellcasters are hotkeyed separately. And your robo(s). And guess what? Fucking W counts as a hotkey. Yeah, I said it. If you get to use a number for your barracks, then W sure in hell counts as a control group for my warpgates- especially since I need to leave my current screen (which is a battle half the time) and warp-in. So W counts as one. And those are just basic hotkeys. What what. Army hotkeys. You need exactly 1. You dont have to put spellcasters on a seperate hotkey, there is no need to. Absolutely no need at all. Control Groups, control groups, army, army, comprendo? So, terrans only need 1 hot key? Stim + A move. Medavac's auto heal, vikings fly over the army. Stim to win. Understand? See, we can argue like that too, but choose to make better arguments. But I understand that your point is not to make a well formed argument that is clearly thought out.
I used to play protoss, up until plat where i switched to terran. You definitely can use 1 army hotkey. Lategame, you don't need sentries as much so having templar in your control group isn't that bad. Colossus, zealots and stalkers require minimal micro so they can all be on that same hotkey too. For terrans to have ghosts vikings and bio on one army would be stupid. Your ghosts override your bio, so you have to tab just to stim. Vikings are on that hotkey so when you try to stutter your vikings will be with them.
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On March 16 2012 12:01 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 11:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:45 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:21 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:11 ZenithM wrote:On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
No Protoss doesn't need 3 hotkeys.... when I play Toss I have my entire army on 1 and just use tab to switch between storms and forcefields, the rest of the army (chargelots, collossi, archons, what have you) can literally be a moved. If the collossi somehow run too far upfront i jut double click them and pull them back, that is all I personally do when I engage with protoss in any matchup rly. That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do? It's very common to have 3 control groups for good Protosses. You want your blink stalkers in one group, they're very mobile and can actually leave the "ball" temporarily to harass the Terran army or bases (like pick off a stray ghost or medivac and blink back). Then your zealot/sentries in one group too. The third is used for Colossus before templars, for quick access to them. Then when you have templars, you can put your colossi with the zealots and micro them with the mouse, and give the templars their own control group. That's 3 reasonable control groups that many Protoss use. Add to that one for a warpprism, which is not that rare in all P matchups nowadays. HuK for example uses 1: zealot/sentries, 2: stalkers, 3: colossi, 4: templars. And we definitely already saw charge being turned off to not waste it or to hide the tech (although chargelots have a higher movement speed so it's kinda silly). Mostly it's to not waste the charge. Charge cannot be used on manual per say, you need to target a unit with it. Obviously you don't want 20 chargelots to run on 1 marine. Good protosses. You say it. But any random master protoss is just fine with 1 control group, whereas every terran even in platinum league effectively NEEDS 3 control groups. That is a huge difference. The fact that you need something and it's not just optional. hence why protoss is much easier, they can decide to use 3 control groups but unless they play at the very top level they absolutely dont need to. What part of that is it that people dont get? Just felt like pointing out that that's ridiculous. Your nexuses are always hotkeyed. Your army (non-spellcasters) are always hotkeyed. Your spellcasters are hotkeyed separately. And your robo(s). And guess what? Fucking W counts as a hotkey. Yeah, I said it. If you get to use a number for your barracks, then W sure in hell counts as a control group for my warpgates- especially since I need to leave my current screen (which is a battle half the time) and warp-in. So W counts as one. And those are just basic hotkeys. What what. Army hotkeys. You need exactly 1. You dont have to put spellcasters on a seperate hotkey, there is no need to. Absolutely no need at all. Control Groups, control groups, army, army, comprendo? I assume you have ghosts on a different hotkey than the rest of your bio because you want to be able to stim and still use ghost abilities, right? How do you think Protoss players use both sentries and high templar effectively? And blink... Sure, you could try to get away with not using multiple control groups by double-clicking on the desired units really fast (whether your Terran or Protoss), but when everything's clumped together or firing, you're gonna want to have easy access to units that have important abilities. I'm not saying that either race *needs* to have everything on different hotkeys, but there's no reason why Terran should have any *more* hotkeys for their army, considering Protoss has more spellcasters and more units that move at varying speeds. There is nothing worse than trying to blink your stalkers and throwing down an FF instead. Also, why are you trying to argue with him? Did you see his last post. Clearly, no argument you can make will change his mind. He is convinced loses every game to protoss because the race is just way to easy, while terran is for people with 7 fingers and 250+ apm.
Touche.
By the way, did you see the showmatches between WhiteRa and DeMuslim played a few hours ago? DeMuslim stomped WhiteRa in pretty much every single one, and WhiteRa lost to all sorts of variations... early game pressure, late game pressure, even mech. It's a pity too, considering WhiteRa was playing really well (and had been practicing for a little while beforehand). DeMuslim's a very solid player. They both are.
I forget what races they play though. Probably not relevant to this thread.
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On March 16 2012 12:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 12:01 Plansix wrote:On March 16 2012 11:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:45 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:21 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:11 ZenithM wrote:On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:
[quote]
That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do? It's very common to have 3 control groups for good Protosses. You want your blink stalkers in one group, they're very mobile and can actually leave the "ball" temporarily to harass the Terran army or bases (like pick off a stray ghost or medivac and blink back). Then your zealot/sentries in one group too. The third is used for Colossus before templars, for quick access to them. Then when you have templars, you can put your colossi with the zealots and micro them with the mouse, and give the templars their own control group. That's 3 reasonable control groups that many Protoss use. Add to that one for a warpprism, which is not that rare in all P matchups nowadays. HuK for example uses 1: zealot/sentries, 2: stalkers, 3: colossi, 4: templars. And we definitely already saw charge being turned off to not waste it or to hide the tech (although chargelots have a higher movement speed so it's kinda silly). Mostly it's to not waste the charge. Charge cannot be used on manual per say, you need to target a unit with it. Obviously you don't want 20 chargelots to run on 1 marine. Good protosses. You say it. But any random master protoss is just fine with 1 control group, whereas every terran even in platinum league effectively NEEDS 3 control groups. That is a huge difference. The fact that you need something and it's not just optional. hence why protoss is much easier, they can decide to use 3 control groups but unless they play at the very top level they absolutely dont need to. What part of that is it that people dont get? Just felt like pointing out that that's ridiculous. Your nexuses are always hotkeyed. Your army (non-spellcasters) are always hotkeyed. Your spellcasters are hotkeyed separately. And your robo(s). And guess what? Fucking W counts as a hotkey. Yeah, I said it. If you get to use a number for your barracks, then W sure in hell counts as a control group for my warpgates- especially since I need to leave my current screen (which is a battle half the time) and warp-in. So W counts as one. And those are just basic hotkeys. What what. Army hotkeys. You need exactly 1. You dont have to put spellcasters on a seperate hotkey, there is no need to. Absolutely no need at all. Control Groups, control groups, army, army, comprendo? I assume you have ghosts on a different hotkey than the rest of your bio because you want to be able to stim and still use ghost abilities, right? How do you think Protoss players use both sentries and high templar effectively? And blink... Sure, you could try to get away with not using multiple control groups by double-clicking on the desired units really fast (whether your Terran or Protoss), but when everything's clumped together or firing, you're gonna want to have easy access to units that have important abilities. I'm not saying that either race *needs* to have everything on different hotkeys, but there's no reason why Terran should have any *more* hotkeys for their army, considering Protoss has more spellcasters and more units that move at varying speeds. There is nothing worse than trying to blink your stalkers and throwing down an FF instead. Also, why are you trying to argue with him? Did you see his last post. Clearly, no argument you can make will change his mind. He is convinced loses every game to protoss because the race is just way to easy, while terran is for people with 7 fingers and 250+ apm. Touche. By the way, did you see the showmatches between WhiteRa and DeMuslim played a few hours ago? DeMuslim stomped WhiteRa in pretty much every single one, and WhiteRa lost to all sorts of variations... early game pressure, late game pressure, even mech. It's a pity too, considering WhiteRa was playing really well (and had been practicing for a little while beforehand). DeMuslim's a very solid player. They both are. I forget what races they play though. Probably not relevant to this thread.
Demuslim beat WhiteRa? Now that is a good argument. I love how we are now using individual matchups between two pro players and completely ignore statistics just to prove a point. But hey, I heard I'm the one who isn't able to come up with a thoughtful argument.
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On March 16 2012 11:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 11:45 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:21 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:11 ZenithM wrote:On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
No Protoss doesn't need 3 hotkeys.... when I play Toss I have my entire army on 1 and just use tab to switch between storms and forcefields, the rest of the army (chargelots, collossi, archons, what have you) can literally be a moved. If the collossi somehow run too far upfront i jut double click them and pull them back, that is all I personally do when I engage with protoss in any matchup rly. That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do? It's very common to have 3 control groups for good Protosses. You want your blink stalkers in one group, they're very mobile and can actually leave the "ball" temporarily to harass the Terran army or bases (like pick off a stray ghost or medivac and blink back). Then your zealot/sentries in one group too. The third is used for Colossus before templars, for quick access to them. Then when you have templars, you can put your colossi with the zealots and micro them with the mouse, and give the templars their own control group. That's 3 reasonable control groups that many Protoss use. Add to that one for a warpprism, which is not that rare in all P matchups nowadays. HuK for example uses 1: zealot/sentries, 2: stalkers, 3: colossi, 4: templars. And we definitely already saw charge being turned off to not waste it or to hide the tech (although chargelots have a higher movement speed so it's kinda silly). Mostly it's to not waste the charge. Charge cannot be used on manual per say, you need to target a unit with it. Obviously you don't want 20 chargelots to run on 1 marine. Good protosses. You say it. But any random master protoss is just fine with 1 control group, whereas every terran even in platinum league effectively NEEDS 3 control groups. That is a huge difference. The fact that you need something and it's not just optional. hence why protoss is much easier, they can decide to use 3 control groups but unless they play at the very top level they absolutely dont need to. What part of that is it that people dont get? Just felt like pointing out that that's ridiculous. Your nexuses are always hotkeyed. Your army (non-spellcasters) are always hotkeyed. Your spellcasters are hotkeyed separately. And your robo(s). And guess what? Fucking W counts as a hotkey. Yeah, I said it. If you get to use a number for your barracks, then W sure in hell counts as a control group for my warpgates- especially since I need to leave my current screen (which is a battle half the time) and warp-in. So W counts as one. And those are just basic hotkeys. What what. Army hotkeys. You need exactly 1. You dont have to put spellcasters on a seperate hotkey, there is no need to. Absolutely no need at all. Control Groups, control groups, army, army, comprendo? I assume you have ghosts on a different hotkey than the rest of your bio because you want to be able to stim and still use ghost abilities, right? How do you think Protoss players use both sentries and high templar effectively? And blink... Sure, you could try to get away with not using multiple control groups by double-clicking on the desired units really fast (whether your Terran or Protoss), but when everything's clumped together or firing, you're gonna want to have easy access to units that have important abilities. I'm not saying that either race *needs* to have everything on different hotkeys, but there's no reason why Terran should have any *more* hotkeys for their army, considering Protoss has more spellcasters and more units that move at varying speeds.
To be fair, they dont. I've seen tons of masters Protoss players get away with 1 hotkey for army. Protoss units are durable enough that you don;t really need instant reaction like zerg and terran.
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On March 16 2012 12:09 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 12:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 12:01 Plansix wrote:On March 16 2012 11:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:45 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:21 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:11 ZenithM wrote:On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:
[quote]
Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do? It's very common to have 3 control groups for good Protosses. You want your blink stalkers in one group, they're very mobile and can actually leave the "ball" temporarily to harass the Terran army or bases (like pick off a stray ghost or medivac and blink back). Then your zealot/sentries in one group too. The third is used for Colossus before templars, for quick access to them. Then when you have templars, you can put your colossi with the zealots and micro them with the mouse, and give the templars their own control group. That's 3 reasonable control groups that many Protoss use. Add to that one for a warpprism, which is not that rare in all P matchups nowadays. HuK for example uses 1: zealot/sentries, 2: stalkers, 3: colossi, 4: templars. And we definitely already saw charge being turned off to not waste it or to hide the tech (although chargelots have a higher movement speed so it's kinda silly). Mostly it's to not waste the charge. Charge cannot be used on manual per say, you need to target a unit with it. Obviously you don't want 20 chargelots to run on 1 marine. Good protosses. You say it. But any random master protoss is just fine with 1 control group, whereas every terran even in platinum league effectively NEEDS 3 control groups. That is a huge difference. The fact that you need something and it's not just optional. hence why protoss is much easier, they can decide to use 3 control groups but unless they play at the very top level they absolutely dont need to. What part of that is it that people dont get? Just felt like pointing out that that's ridiculous. Your nexuses are always hotkeyed. Your army (non-spellcasters) are always hotkeyed. Your spellcasters are hotkeyed separately. And your robo(s). And guess what? Fucking W counts as a hotkey. Yeah, I said it. If you get to use a number for your barracks, then W sure in hell counts as a control group for my warpgates- especially since I need to leave my current screen (which is a battle half the time) and warp-in. So W counts as one. And those are just basic hotkeys. What what. Army hotkeys. You need exactly 1. You dont have to put spellcasters on a seperate hotkey, there is no need to. Absolutely no need at all. Control Groups, control groups, army, army, comprendo? I assume you have ghosts on a different hotkey than the rest of your bio because you want to be able to stim and still use ghost abilities, right? How do you think Protoss players use both sentries and high templar effectively? And blink... Sure, you could try to get away with not using multiple control groups by double-clicking on the desired units really fast (whether your Terran or Protoss), but when everything's clumped together or firing, you're gonna want to have easy access to units that have important abilities. I'm not saying that either race *needs* to have everything on different hotkeys, but there's no reason why Terran should have any *more* hotkeys for their army, considering Protoss has more spellcasters and more units that move at varying speeds. There is nothing worse than trying to blink your stalkers and throwing down an FF instead. Also, why are you trying to argue with him? Did you see his last post. Clearly, no argument you can make will change his mind. He is convinced loses every game to protoss because the race is just way to easy, while terran is for people with 7 fingers and 250+ apm. Touche. By the way, did you see the showmatches between WhiteRa and DeMuslim played a few hours ago? DeMuslim stomped WhiteRa in pretty much every single one, and WhiteRa lost to all sorts of variations... early game pressure, late game pressure, even mech. It's a pity too, considering WhiteRa was playing really well (and had been practicing for a little while beforehand). DeMuslim's a very solid player. They both are. I forget what races they play though. Probably not relevant to this thread. Demuslim beat WhiteRa? Now that is a good argument. I love how we are now using individual matchups between two pro players and completely ignore statistics just to prove a point. But hey, I heard I'm the one who isn't able to come up with a thoughtful argument.
That's rather interesting. Why don't you check up on the historical TvP (or TvZ for that matter) winrates and get back to me. Pretty sure Protoss has a winning record (higher than 50%) in maybe... 2? 3?... months since the game came out. Terran has been roflstomping Protoss hard for the entire history of the game.
Actually, I'll do your research for you:
+ Show Spoiler +
Bottom left is the TvP graph. See all those really high blue bars? Yeah, that's Terran.
Keep on whining.
EDIT: TvZ is worse! LOL.
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On March 16 2012 12:02 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 11:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:45 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:21 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:11 ZenithM wrote:On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
No Protoss doesn't need 3 hotkeys.... when I play Toss I have my entire army on 1 and just use tab to switch between storms and forcefields, the rest of the army (chargelots, collossi, archons, what have you) can literally be a moved. If the collossi somehow run too far upfront i jut double click them and pull them back, that is all I personally do when I engage with protoss in any matchup rly. That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do? It's very common to have 3 control groups for good Protosses. You want your blink stalkers in one group, they're very mobile and can actually leave the "ball" temporarily to harass the Terran army or bases (like pick off a stray ghost or medivac and blink back). Then your zealot/sentries in one group too. The third is used for Colossus before templars, for quick access to them. Then when you have templars, you can put your colossi with the zealots and micro them with the mouse, and give the templars their own control group. That's 3 reasonable control groups that many Protoss use. Add to that one for a warpprism, which is not that rare in all P matchups nowadays. HuK for example uses 1: zealot/sentries, 2: stalkers, 3: colossi, 4: templars. And we definitely already saw charge being turned off to not waste it or to hide the tech (although chargelots have a higher movement speed so it's kinda silly). Mostly it's to not waste the charge. Charge cannot be used on manual per say, you need to target a unit with it. Obviously you don't want 20 chargelots to run on 1 marine. Good protosses. You say it. But any random master protoss is just fine with 1 control group, whereas every terran even in platinum league effectively NEEDS 3 control groups. That is a huge difference. The fact that you need something and it's not just optional. hence why protoss is much easier, they can decide to use 3 control groups but unless they play at the very top level they absolutely dont need to. What part of that is it that people dont get? Just felt like pointing out that that's ridiculous. Your nexuses are always hotkeyed. Your army (non-spellcasters) are always hotkeyed. Your spellcasters are hotkeyed separately. And your robo(s). And guess what? Fucking W counts as a hotkey. Yeah, I said it. If you get to use a number for your barracks, then W sure in hell counts as a control group for my warpgates- especially since I need to leave my current screen (which is a battle half the time) and warp-in. So W counts as one. And those are just basic hotkeys. What what. Army hotkeys. You need exactly 1. You dont have to put spellcasters on a seperate hotkey, there is no need to. Absolutely no need at all. Control Groups, control groups, army, army, comprendo? I assume you have ghosts on a different hotkey than the rest of your bio because you want to be able to stim and still use ghost abilities, right? How do you think Protoss players use both sentries and high templar effectively? And blink... Sure, you could try to get away with not using multiple control groups by double-clicking on the desired units really fast (whether your Terran or Protoss), but when everything's clumped together or firing, you're gonna want to have easy access to units that have important abilities. I'm not saying that either race *needs* to have everything on different hotkeys, but there's no reason why Terran should have any *more* hotkeys for their army, considering Protoss has more spellcasters and more units that move at varying speeds. or you can just use tab........... Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 11:57 Plansix wrote:On March 16 2012 11:45 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:21 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:11 ZenithM wrote:On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:On March 16 2012 09:25 Rassy wrote:
No Protoss doesn't need 3 hotkeys.... when I play Toss I have my entire army on 1 and just use tab to switch between storms and forcefields, the rest of the army (chargelots, collossi, archons, what have you) can literally be a moved. If the collossi somehow run too far upfront i jut double click them and pull them back, that is all I personally do when I engage with protoss in any matchup rly. That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do? It's very common to have 3 control groups for good Protosses. You want your blink stalkers in one group, they're very mobile and can actually leave the "ball" temporarily to harass the Terran army or bases (like pick off a stray ghost or medivac and blink back). Then your zealot/sentries in one group too. The third is used for Colossus before templars, for quick access to them. Then when you have templars, you can put your colossi with the zealots and micro them with the mouse, and give the templars their own control group. That's 3 reasonable control groups that many Protoss use. Add to that one for a warpprism, which is not that rare in all P matchups nowadays. HuK for example uses 1: zealot/sentries, 2: stalkers, 3: colossi, 4: templars. And we definitely already saw charge being turned off to not waste it or to hide the tech (although chargelots have a higher movement speed so it's kinda silly). Mostly it's to not waste the charge. Charge cannot be used on manual per say, you need to target a unit with it. Obviously you don't want 20 chargelots to run on 1 marine. Good protosses. You say it. But any random master protoss is just fine with 1 control group, whereas every terran even in platinum league effectively NEEDS 3 control groups. That is a huge difference. The fact that you need something and it's not just optional. hence why protoss is much easier, they can decide to use 3 control groups but unless they play at the very top level they absolutely dont need to. What part of that is it that people dont get? Just felt like pointing out that that's ridiculous. Your nexuses are always hotkeyed. Your army (non-spellcasters) are always hotkeyed. Your spellcasters are hotkeyed separately. And your robo(s). And guess what? Fucking W counts as a hotkey. Yeah, I said it. If you get to use a number for your barracks, then W sure in hell counts as a control group for my warpgates- especially since I need to leave my current screen (which is a battle half the time) and warp-in. So W counts as one. And those are just basic hotkeys. What what. Army hotkeys. You need exactly 1. You dont have to put spellcasters on a seperate hotkey, there is no need to. Absolutely no need at all. Control Groups, control groups, army, army, comprendo? So, terrans only need 1 hot key? Stim + A move. Medavac's auto heal, vikings fly over the army. Stim to win. Understand? See, we can argue like that too, but choose to make better arguments. But I understand that your point is not to make a well formed argument that is clearly thought out. terran has to stutter step, protoss is the one a moving with collossi, chargelots and archons Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 12:01 Plansix wrote:On March 16 2012 11:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:45 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 11:21 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 16 2012 11:11 ZenithM wrote:On March 16 2012 10:33 FabledIntegral wrote:On March 16 2012 10:30 Gamegene wrote:On March 16 2012 10:21 Resistentialism wrote:
[quote]
That's really subpar for a pro to be using, though I know some probably do. PvT ideally you'd want really fast access to at least blink and either FF or storm (with prism), often both, AND then you would also like to start having your chargelots on manual, and colossus need to be repositioned against specific threats. Add in an obs key rather than spamming your multipurpose CC bank for scans, too. Who doesn't use hotkeys for spells =_= What. Since when do you have a separate hotkey for any of those. None of the pros do from what I'm aware. Why would you need to have a separate hotkey for just your stalkers, or have zealots on manual? No pro uses zealots on manual afaik. Could be wrong, which ones do? It's very common to have 3 control groups for good Protosses. You want your blink stalkers in one group, they're very mobile and can actually leave the "ball" temporarily to harass the Terran army or bases (like pick off a stray ghost or medivac and blink back). Then your zealot/sentries in one group too. The third is used for Colossus before templars, for quick access to them. Then when you have templars, you can put your colossi with the zealots and micro them with the mouse, and give the templars their own control group. That's 3 reasonable control groups that many Protoss use. Add to that one for a warpprism, which is not that rare in all P matchups nowadays. HuK for example uses 1: zealot/sentries, 2: stalkers, 3: colossi, 4: templars. And we definitely already saw charge being turned off to not waste it or to hide the tech (although chargelots have a higher movement speed so it's kinda silly). Mostly it's to not waste the charge. Charge cannot be used on manual per say, you need to target a unit with it. Obviously you don't want 20 chargelots to run on 1 marine. Good protosses. You say it. But any random master protoss is just fine with 1 control group, whereas every terran even in platinum league effectively NEEDS 3 control groups. That is a huge difference. The fact that you need something and it's not just optional. hence why protoss is much easier, they can decide to use 3 control groups but unless they play at the very top level they absolutely dont need to. What part of that is it that people dont get? Just felt like pointing out that that's ridiculous. Your nexuses are always hotkeyed. Your army (non-spellcasters) are always hotkeyed. Your spellcasters are hotkeyed separately. And your robo(s). And guess what? Fucking W counts as a hotkey. Yeah, I said it. If you get to use a number for your barracks, then W sure in hell counts as a control group for my warpgates- especially since I need to leave my current screen (which is a battle half the time) and warp-in. So W counts as one. And those are just basic hotkeys. What what. Army hotkeys. You need exactly 1. You dont have to put spellcasters on a seperate hotkey, there is no need to. Absolutely no need at all. Control Groups, control groups, army, army, comprendo? I assume you have ghosts on a different hotkey than the rest of your bio because you want to be able to stim and still use ghost abilities, right? How do you think Protoss players use both sentries and high templar effectively? And blink... Sure, you could try to get away with not using multiple control groups by double-clicking on the desired units really fast (whether your Terran or Protoss), but when everything's clumped together or firing, you're gonna want to have easy access to units that have important abilities. I'm not saying that either race *needs* to have everything on different hotkeys, but there's no reason why Terran should have any *more* hotkeys for their army, considering Protoss has more spellcasters and more units that move at varying speeds. There is nothing worse than trying to blink your stalkers and throwing down an FF instead. Also, why are you trying to argue with him? Did you see his last post. Clearly, no argument you can make will change his mind. He is convinced loses every game to protoss because the race is just way to easy, while terran is for people with 7 fingers and 250+ apm. I main protoss now and I can definitively tell you that protoss is much easier to play than terran. I have first hand experience with that.
Ok, clearly you believe I take all the whining in this thread seriously and I am trying to convince you of something. You have shown through out your posts in this thread that no argument, reasoning or information will have any effect on what you post. There is no debating with you or the other whiners in this thread. If there are problems with terran and their ability late game, your arguments do nothing to surface or correct those issues. If there was any valuable discussion to be had on the issue, it is eclipsed by other players whining that the game is to hard for them.
All you do is endlessly post that protoss is easier and terran is to difficult for you to be good with. I personally find this sort of behavior disgusting in a game that is all about competitiveness. So, in response, I have chosen to mock you and all your silly posts about how terrible all protoss players are.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BsiaY.jpg)
