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Austria24420 Posts
On March 12 2012 03:21 Jono7272 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 03:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On March 12 2012 03:04 mlspmatt wrote:On March 12 2012 01:40 DarkLordOlli wrote:On March 12 2012 01:33 TotalBronzenoob wrote:
terran is just way too hard to play in comparison to the other races.
I don't wanna say that P and Z doesn't need skill, or isn't hard,
but the skill they need mostly depends on how good the terran's mechanics and multitasking is.
with this, the terrans have to overextend and harass their opponents, so much, that they can't macro perfectly anymore, in other words, terran has to force mistakes. in addition to this terran has to micro perfectly in fights.
good macro, strategies or gameplan isn't enough without great mechanics and great multitasking.
also terran is very prone to lose their entire army for absolutely nothing.
if you run into a zerg army unsieged, or unspread you'll be completely obliterated
vs protoss, storms, forcefields and colossi will eat you.
- no matter how well the game went for you until then, you'll just have lost the game in 3 seconds.
so oftentimes T will lose because of this, even if they played a perfect macrogame before.
it's just extremely hard to take big fights while having to do other things at the same time, on another screen (e.g. defend mutas/warp prism drop, dt's, switch addons, build depots)
granted, P and Z also have to multitask, but they won't lose their entire army to absolutely nothing if they don't pay attention to their fight for a brief time.
in other words: if 2 players just a-move their armies (and cast their AOE spells if available), the terran will always lose, even if their army is slightly bigger.
another thing why people stopped playing terran, are obviously the patches and the anti-terran maps (long rush distance, easy and safe 3rd, 4th, chokepoints favoring forcefields,storms,fungal, banelings, baneling landmines).
anytime a terran player improves, they will get set back by the next incoming patch or mappool
basically, the main problem with terran is, only korean progamers are capable of playing terran at it's full potential.
and to do so, they play up to 16 hours a day 7 days a week, in professional training houses, as we all know.
I also think that korean's are by natural, kind of gifted at playing rts games.
in fact, the last time a foreign terran won a big offline tournament that was seeded by the best players in the world,was more than a year ago.
at the same time, while you see foreign terrans completely falling apart in big tournaments, you see foreign protoss and zerg players beat the best korean terran players in the world more often.
players who go to school. study or work and can't take too much time in gaming, beat people who play 24/7 as a full-time job in a professional environment who practices with the best players in the world all the time.
go figure!
if you are gosu, terran is just damn powerful. if not, you're much better of with playing z or p. See this is what's wrong with this thread. You've probably never experienced a stimmed bio ball crashing into your units while you're not paying attention. If you A-move in without micro except your AoE spells, Terran wins because EMP removes all protoss spells + does damage to all the units. Maps with longer rush distance are there so you can't win with your first marine in a bunker. The day will come when Terrans realize that they have tier 3 units and that those units are actually good if used correctly. Really? Terran has their tier 3 units, and they're actually pretty good if used correctley? -- says the bronze league nub to all the pro Korean terrans who play the game 12h/day, everyday, and never use any terran tier 3. But I guess it's possible EVERY PRO Terran on the planet could be wrong, and you could be right. Bronze league, of course lol. I'm saying that ravens are good. Battlecruisers are good. What if you get a few ravens against a brood lord / infestor army? Or battlecruisers against protoss lategame? Some people actually do it, I've seen replays of high masters TvZ and TvP where the terrans won using those units. I'm not saying it's easy but it's possible and those units are good. Just like carriers are actually kinda good and protoss players are starting to use them lategame. But well, that's another topic and shouldn't be discussed here. Gold then? Yeah.. lets invest in a expensive unit which is easily countered by feedback/stalkers in terms of Battlecrusier TvP, or Infestor/corrupter in terms of Raven TvZ. In both cases, in late game, the opposing races will have a plethora of the units needed to counter. One of the answers, probably, is to get an advantage mid game with brilliant multi tasking sort of play, the sort of play a mid masters terran like myself is not greatly capable without playing all the time.
High plat / diamond actually.
Battlecruisers have yamato cannons which outrange feedback (10 and once activated up to 20 range --> that's why I said "if used correctly") and suddenly they're a beastly unit that templar can't do shit about, high stalker numbers weaken a protoss army in PvT so you either get a lot of them, kill the BCs and lose your whole army or you ignore them and umm... lose your whole army. And that's what happened.
BUt this is going extremely off topic so I'm not gonna debate this here. PM me if you want.
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Everyone that loses to Terran complains about T1 units. Makes me sad.
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On March 12 2012 03:43 Alacast wrote:
Everyone that loses to Terran complains about T1 units. Makes me sad.
Yeah, that has to be the stupidest hate against terran. What are we supposed to do, massing Thor because T1 isn't supposed to be good pass 10min in people mind ?
God that's so stupid to say. People act as a naked marine is the same thing as a stim/shield marine with upgrades under a medivac.
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On March 12 2012 02:23 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
I hate threads like this... Absolutely despise them, it is made by a player who's low level, viewed by low level players, and has low level analytical thoughts placed on it such that it becomes misconception of the masses. I'll tell you where the Terran's went, all the way to the top, every season.
Win rate? I think one season Terran was below Protoss in PvT winrate, since 2010... Championships? I think there is a reason Gom was nicknamed GomTvT...
Just because you can't improve your play, don't take tiny statistics without a good base or taking into account the numbers of players per race and then post it like "terran must be to weak".
Last time I checked, Puma isn't having to many troubles? MMA went 13-0 until reaching Puma at IEM.
/endrant
Right now, there is no truly "saviour/flash/bisu" esc player that can really show the Skill ceiling, so balance is currently not even debatable because there is no perfect play.
Sorry, but this is such a low quality and stupid post.. should you take a few moments and actually read the topic, you'll notice most Terrans up to master complain about the steep learning curve and the required practice time just to be par with P/Z, and exclude pro-level.
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Battlecruisers have yamato cannons which outrange feedback (10 and once activated up to 20 range --> that's why I said "if used correctly") and suddenly they're a beastly unit that templar can't do shit about,
Lol, funniest I have read today. You WANT them to have high energy if you have templars. If the BC targets the templar you just feedbacks it before it gets it's shot off.
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I gave up playing until hots because I came to the realization that I don't have the apm required to micro/multitask lategame tvp. Call it whining or whatnot, but I assume other terrans have gotten discouraged as well.
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I went from zero RTS experience bronze T player to masters in about a years time, I'm now back to high diamond, yet I'm twice the player I was when in masters. Back then the biggest hurdle was macro. Instead of improving macro, I loved to do thor all in v P (when thor had no energy) and 2 rax bunker v Z (when bunker time was shorter). There were countless other timings and strats that were effective, most recent was the 1-1-1 v toss (before immortal buff). Timings will always get nerfed, they lead to stale match ups just as much in a different sense because most players want to play mindless with preset BO and timing pushes.
In my own experience, I'd say I executed the 1-1-1 less than 10% of the time. why? Because the ladder constantly BMs you for any type of timing attack that is tough to hold. I see BM or no GG in 90% of games.
I play SC2 to improve, not to win. So I bought in to the idea that timing attacks are for the less skilled players. I have since done nothing but try to play macro games, never all in, and it requires much more dedication to understand the fundamentals of the game. The timings and nuances are more important. I find myself making many more split second decisions such as to push with 8-10 un-upgraded marines because I sense he's teching too hard.
I never had to play like this before, it was just okay my 3 thors are ready; or +1+1 stim done lets hope he can't hold. While I use timings even more now, it is for a different reason, its a reaction to what I see rather then a pre-game decision. But it took months to grasp any sense of this type of play. With respect to OPs question, I believe many won't put this type of effort in, thus switch race or quit. I've fought the urges to switch race many times.
Its pure truth that it is rather difficult to win the late game now v P and Z, if you play macro with light harass, but it is more satisfying. Yet you still get BMd in macro games to the effect of "just do drops everywhere so easy" or I have 3/3 vs 2/1 "yeah just stim a move and win". I don't think it will ever go away. I think removing chat would do wonders for this game.
The hardworking T players know that the T stigma is real. The late game difficulty is real. The BM is disheartening. I think the game is balanced enough. I don't care about balance, why bother, it just slows down your process. If you chose SC2 over WOW its because you wanted to use your brain not complain about the weakness and strengths of other races. (Played high level WoW for two years....lol high level)
As a young lawyer, It was my hopes to getting into some sort of gaming team ownership, I like how Complexity runs their business with legal and business like professionalism. I think I could make a difference in the gaming world, but the truth is the game is not there yet. SC2 is not BW (I didn't even play BW and I can see that). The attitude of the players and fans is lacking in various ways. My hopes for SC2 have been diminishing at an alarming rate because I see little growth such that any viable business model could exist.
The OP is not complaining about balance. There is real problem with the game design and the community around it.
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On March 12 2012 03:50 danielrosca wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:23 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
I hate threads like this... Absolutely despise them, it is made by a player who's low level, viewed by low level players, and has low level analytical thoughts placed on it such that it becomes misconception of the masses. I'll tell you where the Terran's went, all the way to the top, every season.
Win rate? I think one season Terran was below Protoss in PvT winrate, since 2010... Championships? I think there is a reason Gom was nicknamed GomTvT...
Just because you can't improve your play, don't take tiny statistics without a good base or taking into account the numbers of players per race and then post it like "terran must be to weak".
Last time I checked, Puma isn't having to many troubles? MMA went 13-0 until reaching Puma at IEM.
/endrant
Right now, there is no truly "saviour/flash/bisu" esc player that can really show the Skill ceiling, so balance is currently not even debatable because there is no perfect play. Sorry, but this is such a low quality and stupid post.. should you take a few moments and actually read the topic, you'll notice most Terrans up to master complain about the steep learning curve and the required practice time just to be par with P/Z, and exclude pro-level.
Why are you making assumptions things you have no experience with. People like to pull random tournament statistics out of the air without considering the massive amount of variables at play within a specific tournament, most important of all the individual players skill levels.... (for example the fact that MVP was GM on KR as random, meaning he can beat other pros as protoss/zerg, he even streamed a few games of him doing it). Wheres your proof all the terrans went to the top?
Thats right their isn't any.. I have been masters for a while and I can tell you I play just as few Terrans as I do on my lower level smurfs in plat/diamond, and perhaps fewer, this isn't by any means a problem at the lower leagues, in fact in bronze-gold their isnt a problem at all really of distribution..
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Terran is the hardest race to play and they get nerfed every patch, everyone I know who played terran has rerolled the highskilled race, protoss.
User was warned for this post
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On March 12 2012 04:03 MarineKush wrote:
I went from zero RTS experience bronze T player to masters in about a years time, I'm now back to high diamond, yet I'm twice the player I was when in masters. Back then the biggest hurdle was macro. Instead of improving macro, I loved to do thor all in v P (when thor had no energy) and 2 rax bunker v Z (when bunker time was shorter). There were countless other timings and strats that were effective, most recent was the 1-1-1 v toss (before immortal buff). Timings will always get nerfed, they lead to stale match ups just as much in a different sense because most players want to play mindless with preset BO and timing pushes.
In my own experience, I'd say I executed the 1-1-1 less than 10% of the time. why? Because the ladder constantly BMs you for any type of timing attack that is tough to hold. I see BM or no GG in 90% of games.
I play SC2 to improve, not to win. So I bought in to the idea that timing attacks are for the less skilled players. I have since done nothing but try to play macro games, never all in, and it requires much more dedication to understand the fundamentals of the game. The timings and nuances are more important. I find myself making many more split second decisions such as to push with 8-10 un-upgraded marines because I sense he's teching too hard.
I never had to play like this before, it was just okay my 3 thors are ready; or +1+1 stim done lets hope he can't hold. While I use timings even more now, it is for a different reason, its a reaction to what I see rather then a pre-game decision. But it took months to grasp any sense of this type of play. With respect to OPs question, I believe many won't put this type of effort in, thus switch race or quit. I've fought the urges to switch race many times.
Its pure truth that it is rather difficult to win the late game now v P and Z, if you play macro with light harass, but it is more satisfying. Yet you still get BMd in macro games to the effect of "just do drops everywhere so easy" or I have 3/3 vs 2/1 "yeah just stim a move and win". I don't think it will ever go away. I think removing chat would do wonders for this game.
The hardworking T players know that the T stigma is real. The late game difficulty is real. The BM is disheartening. I think the game is balanced enough. I don't care about balance, why bother, it just slows down your process. If you chose SC2 over WOW its because you wanted to use your brain not complain about the weakness and strengths of other races. (Played high level WoW for two years....lol high level)
As a young lawyer, It was my hopes to getting into some sort of gaming team ownership, I like how Complexity runs their business with legal and business like professionalism. I think I could make a difference in the gaming world, but the truth is the game is not there yet. SC2 is not BW (I didn't even play BW and I can see that). The attitude of the players and fans is lacking in various ways. My hopes for SC2 have been diminishing at an alarming rate because I see little growth such that any viable business model could exist.
The OP is not complaining about balance. There is real problem with the game design and the community around it.
Yeah, we Terran players are just too quiet when comes to balances and strategies. We just think outside the box and improve on overall mechanics and hoping protoss players make mistakes during the game in order for us Terran to win. I totally agree with you! If you look at game in IEM for TvP, all of those protoss losses were mostly overly aggressive and suicides into bunkers! And if you truly look at how those protoss won those games, all insane double forge 3-3 upgrades at 16 minutes!
I don't think anyone can disapprove that!
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On March 12 2012 04:03 MarineKush wrote:
I went from zero RTS experience bronze T player to masters in about a years time, I'm now back to high diamond, yet I'm twice the player I was when in masters. Back then the biggest hurdle was macro. Instead of improving macro, I loved to do thor all in v P (when thor had no energy) and 2 rax bunker v Z (when bunker time was shorter). There were countless other timings and strats that were effective, most recent was the 1-1-1 v toss (before immortal buff). Timings will always get nerfed, they lead to stale match ups just as much in a different sense because most players want to play mindless with preset BO and timing pushes.
In my own experience, I'd say I executed the 1-1-1 less than 10% of the time. why? Because the ladder constantly BMs you for any type of timing attack that is tough to hold. I see BM or no GG in 90% of games.
I play SC2 to improve, not to win. So I bought in to the idea that timing attacks are for the less skilled players. I have since done nothing but try to play macro games, never all in, and it requires much more dedication to understand the fundamentals of the game. The timings and nuances are more important. I find myself making many more split second decisions such as to push with 8-10 un-upgraded marines because I sense he's teching too hard.
I never had to play like this before, it was just okay my 3 thors are ready; or +1+1 stim done lets hope he can't hold. While I use timings even more now, it is for a different reason, its a reaction to what I see rather then a pre-game decision. But it took months to grasp any sense of this type of play. With respect to OPs question, I believe many won't put this type of effort in, thus switch race or quit. I've fought the urges to switch race many times.
Its pure truth that it is rather difficult to win the late game now v P and Z, if you play macro with light harass, but it is more satisfying. Yet you still get BMd in macro games to the effect of "just do drops everywhere so easy" or I have 3/3 vs 2/1 "yeah just stim a move and win". I don't think it will ever go away. I think removing chat would do wonders for this game.
The hardworking T players know that the T stigma is real. The late game difficulty is real. The BM is disheartening. I think the game is balanced enough. I don't care about balance, why bother, it just slows down your process. If you chose SC2 over WOW its because you wanted to use your brain not complain about the weakness and strengths of other races. (Played high level WoW for two years....lol high level)
As a young lawyer, It was my hopes to getting into some sort of gaming team ownership, I like how Complexity runs their business with legal and business like professionalism. I think I could make a difference in the gaming world, but the truth is the game is not there yet. SC2 is not BW (I didn't even play BW and I can see that). The attitude of the players and fans is lacking in various ways. My hopes for SC2 have been diminishing at an alarming rate because I see little growth such that any viable business model could exist.
The OP is not complaining about balance. There is real problem with the game design and the community around it.
I totally agree with the chat function. if you don't want to chat, you shouldn't have to. There should be a way to turn it off. When I ladder I don't want to talk to anybody. usually it's BM or other nonsense I don't want to listen to.
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On March 12 2012 02:36 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:00 dde wrote:
I talked to korean pros at MLG winter areana about the current balance. Zergs believe that Protoss is too strong while terrans believe that theres no hope vs zerg in the late game due to ghost nerfs and they just find vs protoss just insaely hard for some reason (not sure why because I like to play vs protoss). Protoss players said that zerg is the op race. That would confirm my opinion on Zerg. It's the strongest race simply because it has been balanced by Blizzard around the fact that you don't need to micro your shit and a glorious A-move is enough in most cases. The whole zerglings + double melee upgrades in ZvT is based around this. Much easier than to micro mutalisks, you surround (move command then an A-move, basically) a Terran army and it's gg. Once you get a good game sense going, to deflect pressure moves and various all ins without sacrificing much economy, you're instantly a good player with Zerg, you make the right units at the right time, and annihilate your opponents army while re-macroing and eating French fries. It's not easy to get to this point, but it's very easy to win once you know the game a bit. And once you realize that you actually CAN micro your units as Zerg, like Stephano and DRG do, and that it makes you rape your opponent even harder, well, you get the strongest race in the game. Mark my words and wait for HOTS, they will be all the more true. Edit: replaced "reproducing" with "re-macroing" ;D
Erm... You realise the best ZvTer in this world has 64% win rate which there are at least 10 korean terrans that have a win rate above that (yeah i just checked the tlpd). What you said is mostly true. However regarding the last part, it is in fact terrans who can micro have the upper hand in engagements (at least for now). Yes, zergs can definitely still improve on their engagements, like splitting up burrowed infestors for fungals, separating few lings to absorb tank fires before moving in. It's true if terran has less than ideal level of mechanics, they get stomped.
Terrans have the wrong mentality in thinking they are weak/difficult to play in the late game, where in fact it is the mid game that kills them. Terran has the easiest macro mechanics once infrastructure are set. However, they have arguably the hardest macro in the mid game. This is on top of having the need to be aggressive at the stage of the game. Terrans that whine when they take the easy way out by sitting in base til max food before moving out.. sry but this isn't how the game is played. If you think you have the mechanics but your style is to play a passive defensive game, then i kindly suggest that you change to other races. If not, you just have to improve your game so that you can macro and micro effectively while playing aggressively. Terran's still a pretty good race that scales well linearly with skill, so just try to improve and enjoy the game.
No idea why there are so much whining. Amateurs should just find joy in trying to improve their games, while progamers don't really have the right to complain since they are not utilizing the full potential of the race. I blame the mmr system for the amount of balance whines. People like to compare with other races of similar "skill level" and judge the differing amount of success they can have in various matchups. If you aren't good at certain matchup, then you aren't good at it. The fact that different matchups have different difficulty can't be changed. The game should be balanced at the very top level.
There are just too many inherent issues in WoL that can't be solved. Terran is a 'complete' race. That's why you see so many korean terrans that have success with such different playstyles. Zerg and protoss, on the other hand, aren't. The terran nerfs are there to help balance the fact that there were some stuffs out there that these 2 races absolutely can't cope with. WoL would be as good as BW if toss and zergs have the versatility that terran has. We can only hope for the future expansions... if a game is well designed, it shouldn't require that many balance patches.
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What baffles me the most is that Terran players can SEE the potential of their race being played out by Koreans in the GSL and still complain about balance. You now have a goal to work towards and you know that it's possible because people have done it. If everyone focused more on their own play instead of blaming their losses on other things they might actually innovate and improve their skill.
Another good point brought up by others is that Terran does not suit everyone's play style. If you don't play aggressively, Terran is probably not going to work out for you past gold/plat.
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I think it has to do with how terrans just hit a skill plateau earlier and there is no real clean cut way on how to improve. Like there is no ambiguity on how to improve as a zerg, you become better when you learn how to inject, creep spread effectively, and maintain expansions, while those three are hard to master they demonstrate a clear path to improving. Same applies to Protoss, you should be striving to secure 3 bases without taking substantial loses from harass.
Terran on the other hand can only go so far with straight up macro, you need to be creative and have good unit control as Terran. But there is no clear way on how to improve on that other then grinding a lot of games and having a deep understanding of the other races.
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bigger sample please. last 15 games is not large enough. i still meet lots of terrans
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On March 12 2012 03:32 aTnClouD wrote:
Terran is definitely harder and more demanding to play at every level. At the level korean progamers are now the game is quite balanced, and I wouldn't recommend anyone to play terran unless what they are looking for is a lot of challenge and patience. If mech was viable against protoss I think players not as good as korean progamers would have a good chance of not struggling so much as they are now. Perhaps things will change radically in this matter when HotS comes out.
This is pretty accurate. It is more fun to play T though IMO, because of the challenges it brings and the multitasking it requires. I'm eager to see hots changes 
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When you begin to obtain the skills to actually really be good with terran through the multi-tasking and what not, terran is the most rewarding and exciting race imo. The hard part is actually getting to that point.
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On March 12 2012 04:30 darkcloud8282 wrote:
What baffles me the most is that Terran players can SEE the potential of their race being played out by Koreans in the GSL and still complain about balance. You now have a goal to work towards and you know that it's possible because people have done it. If everyone focused more on their own play instead of blaming their losses on other things they might actually innovate and improve their skill.
Another good point brought up by others is that Terran does not suit everyone's play style. If you don't play aggressively, Terran is probably not going to work out for you past gold/plat.
Actually when I watch streams (not GSL matches which are nothing like ladder because they play a an enormous amount of mindgames and plan their strats out far in advance) I see them having the same problems I have in Masters, a lot of lategame troubles, especially vs protoss.
GSL does not even come remotely close to ladder, each build is specifically tuned toward an opponent, I have tried to copy a lot of the builds people have done and they have failed terribly (MVPs tvt proxy maraduers for instance) because they are not meant for ladder and the games should not be interpreted as an equivalent of a ladder match.
Again the discussion is NOT about GSL and all the terrans in GSL. The discussion is about the constantly shrinking population of Terran on ladder. When I started Sc2 I knew their were 3 races, but I play TVT so rarely its basically like a 2 race game to me, someone who thinks even 3 races doesn't allow enough variety.
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On March 12 2012 04:22 babysimba wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:36 ZenithM wrote:On March 12 2012 02:00 dde wrote:
I talked to korean pros at MLG winter areana about the current balance. Zergs believe that Protoss is too strong while terrans believe that theres no hope vs zerg in the late game due to ghost nerfs and they just find vs protoss just insaely hard for some reason (not sure why because I like to play vs protoss). Protoss players said that zerg is the op race. That would confirm my opinion on Zerg. It's the strongest race simply because it has been balanced by Blizzard around the fact that you don't need to micro your shit and a glorious A-move is enough in most cases. The whole zerglings + double melee upgrades in ZvT is based around this. Much easier than to micro mutalisks, you surround (move command then an A-move, basically) a Terran army and it's gg. Once you get a good game sense going, to deflect pressure moves and various all ins without sacrificing much economy, you're instantly a good player with Zerg, you make the right units at the right time, and annihilate your opponents army while re-macroing and eating French fries. It's not easy to get to this point, but it's very easy to win once you know the game a bit. And once you realize that you actually CAN micro your units as Zerg, like Stephano and DRG do, and that it makes you rape your opponent even harder, well, you get the strongest race in the game. Mark my words and wait for HOTS, they will be all the more true. Edit: replaced "reproducing" with "re-macroing" ;D Erm... You realise the best ZvTer in this world has 64% win rate which there are at least 10 korean terrans that have a win rate above that (yeah i just checked the tlpd). [...]
That's why I said it's not easy to play Zerg. Just easy in theory. I do think that DRG is the best player in the world now, and not because of his race, which is btw the less successful in the GSL atm.
Zerg will always be able to lose games on timings they underestimated/overestimated, and various cheeses they didn't predict, while not being able to win much of their games with cheeses or all ins (I personally find Zerg cheese/all in laughable at best ^^). The fact that they remain at a 50% winrate globally without using high winrates pre-made builds like Terran and Protoss use in some matchups is a testament to the overall strength of the race imo.
That being said, I do think also that balance at the highest level (like, DRG's level :D) has nothing to do with balance at the amateur level which people seem to complain about.
Having switched to Terran from Protoss, I'm very happy with where I'm at right now. While I do think that Protoss is favored in PvT, that doesn't prevent me from trying to improve and win against the set of Protoss players I was previously losing against. I don't care about their skill relatively to mine, I know that MarineKing and MMA can make Terran work even against the best Zerg and Protoss of the planet, so I just have to keep going and try to improve, and people should just do the same, whichever race they play.
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On March 12 2012 04:22 babysimba wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:36 ZenithM wrote:On March 12 2012 02:00 dde wrote:
I talked to korean pros at MLG winter areana about the current balance. Zergs believe that Protoss is too strong while terrans believe that theres no hope vs zerg in the late game due to ghost nerfs and they just find vs protoss just insaely hard for some reason (not sure why because I like to play vs protoss). Protoss players said that zerg is the op race. That would confirm my opinion on Zerg. It's the strongest race simply because it has been balanced by Blizzard around the fact that you don't need to micro your shit and a glorious A-move is enough in most cases. The whole zerglings + double melee upgrades in ZvT is based around this. Much easier than to micro mutalisks, you surround (move command then an A-move, basically) a Terran army and it's gg. Once you get a good game sense going, to deflect pressure moves and various all ins without sacrificing much economy, you're instantly a good player with Zerg, you make the right units at the right time, and annihilate your opponents army while re-macroing and eating French fries. It's not easy to get to this point, but it's very easy to win once you know the game a bit. And once you realize that you actually CAN micro your units as Zerg, like Stephano and DRG do, and that it makes you rape your opponent even harder, well, you get the strongest race in the game. Mark my words and wait for HOTS, they will be all the more true. Edit: replaced "reproducing" with "re-macroing" ;D Erm... You realise the best ZvTer in this world has 64% win rate which there are at least 10 korean terrans that have a win rate above that (yeah i just checked the tlpd). What you said is mostly true. However regarding the last part, it is in fact terrans who can micro have the upper hand in engagements (at least for now). Yes, zergs can definitely still improve on their engagements, like splitting up burrowed infestors for fungals, separating few lings to absorb tank fires before moving in. It's true if terran has less than ideal level of mechanics, they get stomped. Terrans have the wrong mentality in thinking they are weak/difficult to play in the late game, where in fact it is the mid game that kills them. Terran has the easiest macro mechanics once infrastructure are set. However, they have arguably the hardest macro in the mid game. This is on top of having the need to be aggressive at the stage of the game. Terrans that whine when they take the easy way out by sitting in base til max food before moving out.. sry but this isn't how the game is played. If you think you have the mechanics but your style is to play a passive defensive game, then i kindly suggest that you change to other races. If not, you just have to improve your game so that you can macro and micro effectively while playing aggressively. Terran's still a pretty good race that scales well linearly with skill, so just try to improve and enjoy the game. No idea why there are so much whining. Amateurs should just find joy in trying to improve their games, while progamers don't really have the right to complain since they are not utilizing the full potential of the race. I blame the mmr system for the amount of balance whines. People like to compare with other races of similar "skill level" and judge the differing amount of success they can have in various matchups. If you aren't good at certain matchup, then you aren't good at it. The fact that different matchups have different difficulty can't be changed. The game should be balanced at the very top level. There are just too many inherent issues in WoL that can't be solved. Terran is a 'complete' race. That's why you see so many korean terrans that have success with such different playstyles. Zerg and protoss, on the other hand, aren't. The terran nerfs are there to help balance the fact that there were some stuffs out there that these 2 races absolutely can't cope with. WoL would be as good as BW if toss and zergs have the versatility that terran has. We can only hope for the future expansions... if a game is well designed, it shouldn't require that many balance patches.
One of the best post I have EVER seen. Completely captures how i feel offracing terran. Much easier to multitask and macro ONCE you have infrastructure running but playing up to that part requires not missing scvs/production, playing aggressive, while expanding bases/infrastructure. early Mid game is a bitch but once you get the infrastructure up ohhh boy its fun as hell crushing people with triple drops as they charge into your tank line out of desperation.
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