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On March 29 2012 20:17 hzflank wrote:
Medivacs are the unit that forces a reaction from protoss, but you need a lot (6) of them. It may seem weird but medivacs are the ultimate terran counter to zealots and force protoss to get either colossus or storm. Protoss can just beat medivacs with positioning and upgrades, but that is just the same as bio just beating colossus with positioning and upgrades.
Are you being serious? This made me LOL at work... by the timings, Terran can only get about 4 medivacs out before first and/or second colossus come out. Its also counter to the point about late game vs Protoss when every strategy that people are coming up with is early to mid game win if you do damage (because i feel like there isn't a option in late game)
On another note I started playing again, good news I won against a P and a T(they were pretty bad though)! Bad news is that I was demoted to plat  350 bonus pool ftw!
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On March 29 2012 23:13 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 22:53 caretony wrote:
I'm just really disappointed in Blizzard. It almost seems as if they want terrans to disappear from ladder.
First they nerf a race that is already struggling badly and then they also make the map pool extremely bad for Terran and keep adding more anti-terran maps.
I mean for the upcoming season are there actually any good Terran maps left?
I guess Shakuras is pretty good for T, even tho stats show its pretty heavily P favoured, it's a well balanced map vs Z imo.
Antiga is alright, not a T favoured map by any means but a balanced map.
Then all the rest for season 7 seems to be really anti-terran....
Tal darim: extremely unbalanced in TvP, I know the stats say its about 50% but still stats don't say everything, whens the last time you saw a terran win vs a decent protoss on tal darim? Not exactly a good map either vs Z.
Meta: don't even need to talk about it, bad for T in both MUs
Korhal: havn't played much on this, just seems like a bad map for T, I pretty much instantly downvoted it, seen alot of pro T streamers lose on this aswell.
I have to go now, will write some about the new maps later. I actually posted about this issue a while ago. It was on a different forum, but here's my post anyway: Show nested quote +I did analyze it from all povs. Zerg on korhal for example has alot of counter attack paths and the third and fourth are extremely hard to take for both protoss and terran. That's a fact. On Cloud Kingdom, terran and protoss get 3 free bases, but the fourth is almost impossible to take for terran in any matchup. This is also a fact. Antiga is a good map for terran, I pointed that out and so are shakuras and shattered to some extent. However, most of the other ladder maps are bad for terran. It's impossible to argue that daybreak is good for terran or metropolis is good for terran (both maps are bad for terran). I don't see what's wrong about pointing out that some maps favor certain races, the ladder mappool is extremely good for Zerg, extremely good and bad for terran. All the good terran maps were removed (or most of them) and replaced with Zerg favored maps, or can you actually refute that argument and tell me how korhal, cloud kingdom, metropolis, tal darim or daybreak favor terran in any way? And like I said, they should not go from one extreme to another and just make every 3rd or 4th impossible to take for slower armies... it used to be a problem that terran could take a center expo on XNC and siege up the zergs third directly, however the new maps are the complete opposite, you ALWAYS expand away from the zerg's third or fourth base which is obviously bad for terran. And keep this on topic? Stop smoking weed dude, I'm talking about maps in a thread about maps, herp derp. edit: And I completely forgot to mention Metalopolis, that's another extremely Zerg favored map, remember when Blizzard said that Zerg has a 60%+ win rate in all matchups on Metalopolis? How could anyone argue that the current ladder pool does not heavily favor zerg when pretty much 80% of the maps are zerg maps. Mind-boggling, really edit2: Before you say anything else, let's just go through the statistics for all the ladder maps in season 7. Daybreak: http://www.teamliqui...ps/479_DaybreakZ favored in TvZ Z favore in PvZ Balanced in TvP (50.3% win rate) Metropolis - not enough data (only around 15 games per matchup, but I can assure you that it's good for Zerg, it's basically metalopolis just slightly different) Metalopolis http://www.teamliqui...Metalopolis_1.1Z favored in TvZ Z favored in PvZ T favored in TvP Ohana - not enough data (only around 10 games per matchup, but definitely looks P and T favored) Cloud Kingdom http://www.teamliqui...V_Cloud_KingdomZ favored in TvZ Z favored in PvZ P favored in TvP Korhal Compound - not enough data (only around 10 games per matchup, but you know I'd assume it's Z favored in all Matchups, absolutely not sure about TvP) Antiga http://www.teamliqui...ga_Shipyard_1.2T favored in TvZ Z favored in ZvP P favored in TvP Entombed Valley - not enough data, can't really tell, but from the roughly 30 games per MU in TLPD it actually seems to favor Zerg, however that's only 30 games, so I won't count that Shakuras http://www.teamliqui...ras_Plateau_2.0T favored in TvZ Z favored in PvZ T favored in TvP Tal Darim Altar http://www.teamliqui...l'Darim_AltarZ favored in TvZ P favored in PvZ P favored in TvP This will probably be the Mappool in season 7. So 9x Zerg is favored, 4x Terran, 4x Protoss. And I didn't even count Korhal (which is obviously Z favored, but we don't have enough data), Metropolis (aka Metalopolis 2) and Entombed Valley (which statistically ~30 games seems to be Zerg favored too in both matchups - but I won't count that yet). Now please tell me that the ladder pool isn't extremely Zerg favored. Zerg is favored in 9 of their matchups and only not favored in 3 matchups (terran AND protoss combined), now please tell me that the ladder maps aren't absolute bullshit and it will be even worse in season 7 (as shown by the stats), Zerg is basically favored on almost every map in the mappool, don't you see how ridiculous that is?# edit3: Both, Protoss and Terran will have a 90% chance that they have to play on a Zerg favored map in season 7, don't you see how that is... I don't know... a little bit unfair? It seems like the new map pool heavily favors Zerg over Terran and Protoss, to an extent where you can actually argue that the map pool is extremely unfair.
All maps with rocks are unfair to zerg, so dont even talk about it. Maps without rocks is fair and then you say its unfair becouse its fair for zerg.
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My take from watching pro terrans and playing platnium ones (dont laugh) is the marine is the issue. It's the issue why top tier terrans are so good - because they can split, partial stim, studder, send a couple to take out 5 banes, bunker cheese etc.makin marine best unit in the game bar none and how they dominate all matchup in gsl. Amatuers and low level western pros can't making it an average unit and thier results less than average.
Considering this and low utility of mech I think blizz could solve two issues by nerfing marine and buffing mech. Pros couldnt rely on marine to dominate all matchups. Easier to work with and less micro intesive mech would become more powerful allowing amatuers a better shot whole game long and pros mech would be viable late. What do you terrans think?
Like give 50 damage to tank. More HP or irradation shield on Thor which fries bio in it's immediate vincinity. and marine 1 less range or 2 less dmg? Thoughts?
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On March 29 2012 23:34 tdt wrote:
My take from watching pro terrans and playing platnium ones (dont laugh) is the marine is the issue. It's the issue why top tier terrans are so good - because they can split, partial stim, studder, send a couple to take out 5 banes, bunker cheese etc.makin marine best unit in the game bar none and how they dominate all matchup in gsl. Amatuers and low level western pros can't making it an average unit and thier results less than average.
Considering this and low utility of mech I think blizz could solve two issues by nerfing marine and buffing mech. Pros couldnt rely on marine to dominate all matchups. Easier to work with and less micro intesive mech would become more powerful allowing amatuers a better shot whole game long and pros mech would be viable late. What do you terrans think?
Like give 50 damage to tank. More HP or irradation shield on Thor. and marine 1 less range or 2 less dmg? Thoughts?
Marine already loses cost for cost against every early game unit until around 20 or 30. The only way to make them cost effective is to get and keep superior numbers or force them in an advantageous position, like a choke against zerglings.
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On March 29 2012 21:36 krell wrote:
This has made me, like many, many others, to stop playing SC2 essentially. I play some 2v2's with buddy's every now and then, but that's it. This is killing the game in so many ways:
- It makes the game less diverse which leads to it being more repetitive.
- If people stop PLAYING, it wont be long before they stop WATCHING.
- If people stop watching, tournaments make less money.
- If tournaments make less money, blizzard makes less money.
You would think blizzard would have done something by now.IT's gonna be a long time till HOTS. There won't be many players left by the time it comes out.
Man that's a huge exaggeration. I haven't really played for a year and i still watch a shit ton of SC2. There's also the fact that "killing the game" is a very big statement to make considering the numbers.
On March 29 2012 23:40 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 23:34 tdt wrote:
My take from watching pro terrans and playing platnium ones (dont laugh) is the marine is the issue. It's the issue why top tier terrans are so good - because they can split, partial stim, studder, send a couple to take out 5 banes, bunker cheese etc.makin marine best unit in the game bar none and how they dominate all matchup in gsl. Amatuers and low level western pros can't making it an average unit and thier results less than average.
Considering this and low utility of mech I think blizz could solve two issues by nerfing marine and buffing mech. Pros couldnt rely on marine to dominate all matchups. Easier to work with and less micro intesive mech would become more powerful allowing amatuers a better shot whole game long and pros mech would be viable late. What do you terrans think?
Like give 50 damage to tank. More HP or irradation shield on Thor. and marine 1 less range or 2 less dmg? Thoughts? Marine already loses cost for cost against every early game unit until around 20 or 30. The only way to make them cost effective is to get and keep superior numbers or force them in an advantageous position, like a choke against zerglings.
Just making a cost for cost comparison doesn't really show how strong a unit is. Superior numbers of marines might be true if they have no support but i'm pretty sure stimmed marine drops can be very cost efficient with micro.
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On March 29 2012 23:24 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 23:20 Big J wrote:On March 29 2012 23:13 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 29 2012 22:53 caretony wrote:
I'm just really disappointed in Blizzard. It almost seems as if they want terrans to disappear from ladder.
First they nerf a race that is already struggling badly and then they also make the map pool extremely bad for Terran and keep adding more anti-terran maps.
I mean for the upcoming season are there actually any good Terran maps left?
I guess Shakuras is pretty good for T, even tho stats show its pretty heavily P favoured, it's a well balanced map vs Z imo.
Antiga is alright, not a T favoured map by any means but a balanced map.
Then all the rest for season 7 seems to be really anti-terran....
Tal darim: extremely unbalanced in TvP, I know the stats say its about 50% but still stats don't say everything, whens the last time you saw a terran win vs a decent protoss on tal darim? Not exactly a good map either vs Z.
Meta: don't even need to talk about it, bad for T in both MUs
Korhal: havn't played much on this, just seems like a bad map for T, I pretty much instantly downvoted it, seen alot of pro T streamers lose on this aswell.
I have to go now, will write some about the new maps later. I actually posted about this issue a while ago. It was on a different forum, but here's my post anyway: I did analyze it from all povs. Zerg on korhal for example has alot of counter attack paths and the third and fourth are extremely hard to take for both protoss and terran. That's a fact. On Cloud Kingdom, terran and protoss get 3 free bases, but the fourth is almost impossible to take for terran in any matchup. This is also a fact. Antiga is a good map for terran, I pointed that out and so are shakuras and shattered to some extent. However, most of the other ladder maps are bad for terran. It's impossible to argue that daybreak is good for terran or metropolis is good for terran (both maps are bad for terran). I don't see what's wrong about pointing out that some maps favor certain races, the ladder mappool is extremely good for Zerg, extremely good and bad for terran. All the good terran maps were removed (or most of them) and replaced with Zerg favored maps, or can you actually refute that argument and tell me how korhal, cloud kingdom, metropolis, tal darim or daybreak favor terran in any way? And like I said, they should not go from one extreme to another and just make every 3rd or 4th impossible to take for slower armies... it used to be a problem that terran could take a center expo on XNC and siege up the zergs third directly, however the new maps are the complete opposite, you ALWAYS expand away from the zerg's third or fourth base which is obviously bad for terran. And keep this on topic? Stop smoking weed dude, I'm talking about maps in a thread about maps, herp derp. edit: And I completely forgot to mention Metalopolis, that's another extremely Zerg favored map, remember when Blizzard said that Zerg has a 60%+ win rate in all matchups on Metalopolis? How could anyone argue that the current ladder pool does not heavily favor zerg when pretty much 80% of the maps are zerg maps. Mind-boggling, really edit2: Before you say anything else, let's just go through the statistics for all the ladder maps in season 7. Daybreak: http://www.teamliqui...ps/479_DaybreakZ favored in TvZ Z favore in PvZ Balanced in TvP (50.3% win rate) Metropolis - not enough data (only around 15 games per matchup, but I can assure you that it's good for Zerg, it's basically metalopolis just slightly different) Metalopolis http://www.teamliqui...Metalopolis_1.1Z favored in TvZ Z favored in PvZ T favored in TvP Ohana - not enough data (only around 10 games per matchup, but definitely looks P and T favored) Cloud Kingdom http://www.teamliqui...V_Cloud_KingdomZ favored in TvZ Z favored in PvZ P favored in TvP Korhal Compound - not enough data (only around 10 games per matchup, but you know I'd assume it's Z favored in all Matchups, absolutely not sure about TvP) Antiga http://www.teamliqui...ga_Shipyard_1.2T favored in TvZ Z favored in ZvP P favored in TvP Entombed Valley - not enough data, can't really tell, but from the roughly 30 games per MU in TLPD it actually seems to favor Zerg, however that's only 30 games, so I won't count that Shakuras http://www.teamliqui...ras_Plateau_2.0T favored in TvZ Z favored in PvZ T favored in TvP Tal Darim Altar http://www.teamliqui...l'Darim_AltarZ favored in TvZ P favored in PvZ P favored in TvP This will probably be the Mappool in season 7. So 9x Zerg is favored, 4x Terran, 4x Protoss. And I didn't even count Korhal (which is obviously Z favored, but we don't have enough data), Metropolis (aka Metalopolis 2) and Entombed Valley (which statistically ~30 games seems to be Zerg favored too in both matchups - but I won't count that yet). Now please tell me that the ladder pool isn't extremely Zerg favored. Zerg is favored in 9 of their matchups and only not favored in 3 matchups (terran AND protoss combined), now please tell me that the ladder maps aren't absolute bullshit and it will be even worse in season 7 (as shown by the stats), Zerg is basically favored on almost every map in the mappool, don't you see how ridiculous that is?# edit3: Both, Protoss and Terran will have a 90% chance that they have to play on a Zerg favored map in season 7, don't you see how that is... I don't know... a little bit unfair? It seems like the new map pool heavily favors Zerg over Terran and Protoss, to an extent where you can actually argue that the map pool is extremely unfair. It would help if the links would actually lead somewhere  Oh yes, I apologize for that. I didn't realize that it cut off the links when I copypasta'd it. I basically just used the links to the TLPD international maps.
I somewhat can't believe that; for example, TDA shows those stats:
TvZ: 365-340 (51.8%)
ZvP: 344-337 (50.5%)
PvT: 354-358 (49.7%)
which in my opinion means that all 3 MUs are very well balanced.
Even more, if you want to be superpicky
it's T>Z; Z>P and T>P, while you say it completly the other way round.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/448_Tal'Darim_Altar_LE
and there are more mistakes than that all around (not only such ones that make Terran look worse), so I really would like to have those links, as the data simply doesn't seem to match with what TLPD currently.
On another note, Korhal Compound was my first veto this season as a zerg. Haven't really figured a way to deal with highground lowground attacks on my third unless I go 2base muta in every MU, which in one is falling out of style and in the other it's a cheese. Might just be me, but I haven't really figured a good way how to play it yet.
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On March 29 2012 23:40 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 23:34 tdt wrote:
My take from watching pro terrans and playing platnium ones (dont laugh) is the marine is the issue. It's the issue why top tier terrans are so good - because they can split, partial stim, studder, send a couple to take out 5 banes, bunker cheese etc.makin marine best unit in the game bar none and how they dominate all matchup in gsl. Amatuers and low level western pros can't making it an average unit and thier results less than average.
Considering this and low utility of mech I think blizz could solve two issues by nerfing marine and buffing mech. Pros couldnt rely on marine to dominate all matchups. Easier to work with and less micro intesive mech would become more powerful allowing amatuers a better shot whole game long and pros mech would be viable late. What do you terrans think?
Like give 50 damage to tank. More HP or irradation shield on Thor. and marine 1 less range or 2 less dmg? Thoughts? Marine already loses cost for cost against every early game unit until around 20 or 30. The only way to make them cost effective is to get and keep superior numbers or force them in an advantageous position, like a choke against zerglings.
I guess everyone agrees that marine is a pretty good unit if microed properly. I actually like his idea. Terran is doing quite well at GSL level. A buff in mech (with a correspondent nerf in bio) would be very welcome and make the game more balanced skill wise in the lower levels.
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On March 29 2012 23:34 tdt wrote:
My take from watching pro terrans and playing platnium ones (dont laugh) is the marine is the issue. It's the issue why top tier terrans are so good - because they can split, partial stim, studder, send a couple to take out 5 banes, bunker cheese etc.makin marine best unit in the game bar none and how they dominate all matchup in gsl. Amatuers and low level western pros can't making it an average unit and thier results less than average.
Considering this and low utility of mech I think blizz could solve two issues by nerfing marine and buffing mech. Pros couldnt rely on marine to dominate all matchups. Easier to work with and less micro intesive mech would become more powerful allowing amatuers a better shot whole game long and pros mech would be viable late. What do you terrans think?
Like give 50 damage to tank. More HP or irradation shield on Thor which fries bio in it's immediate vincinity. and marine 1 less range or 2 less dmg? Thoughts?
mech is very strong vs. T and Z already. The buff in HoTS will fix mech vs. Protoss (hopefully) but I don't think buffing mech and nerfing Terran bio is the answer.
Are you suggesting making siege tank do 50 dmg to all types unsieged or sieged?
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Where did all the GSL zergs go?
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On March 29 2012 23:53 0ne wrote:
Where did all the GSL zergs go?
To be honest, I don't know if GSL results can be use for this matter.
Being able to prepare for a week, knowing your opponent, knowing the maps is something that help P and specialy T a lot more than Z.
And this will always be a disavantage in GSL format.
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On March 29 2012 23:40 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 23:34 tdt wrote:
My take from watching pro terrans and playing platnium ones (dont laugh) is the marine is the issue. It's the issue why top tier terrans are so good - because they can split, partial stim, studder, send a couple to take out 5 banes, bunker cheese etc.makin marine best unit in the game bar none and how they dominate all matchup in gsl. Amatuers and low level western pros can't making it an average unit and thier results less than average.
Considering this and low utility of mech I think blizz could solve two issues by nerfing marine and buffing mech. Pros couldnt rely on marine to dominate all matchups. Easier to work with and less micro intesive mech would become more powerful allowing amatuers a better shot whole game long and pros mech would be viable late. What do you terrans think?
Like give 50 damage to tank. More HP or irradation shield on Thor. and marine 1 less range or 2 less dmg? Thoughts? Marine already loses cost for cost against every early game unit until around 20 or 30. The only way to make them cost effective is to get and keep superior numbers or force them in an advantageous position, like a choke against zerglings.
I'm not sure about that doesnt one stim marine have same DPS as stalker which costs 3x more? It's the whole DPS unit which brings the pain behind a 1/1/1. VR obviously loses to just 3 or 4 marines. In any case it's how I see pros win all the time. in TvP it's MMM. in TvZ it's MTMedivac which are most used and successful. M being marine.
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On March 29 2012 23:49 ref4 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 23:34 tdt wrote:
My take from watching pro terrans and playing platnium ones (dont laugh) is the marine is the issue. It's the issue why top tier terrans are so good - because they can split, partial stim, studder, send a couple to take out 5 banes, bunker cheese etc.makin marine best unit in the game bar none and how they dominate all matchup in gsl. Amatuers and low level western pros can't making it an average unit and thier results less than average.
Considering this and low utility of mech I think blizz could solve two issues by nerfing marine and buffing mech. Pros couldnt rely on marine to dominate all matchups. Easier to work with and less micro intesive mech would become more powerful allowing amatuers a better shot whole game long and pros mech would be viable late. What do you terrans think?
Like give 50 damage to tank. More HP or irradation shield on Thor which fries bio in it's immediate vincinity. and marine 1 less range or 2 less dmg? Thoughts? mech is very strong vs. T and Z already. The buff in HoTS will fix mech vs. Protoss (hopefully) but I don't think buffing mech and nerfing Terran bio is the answer. Are you suggesting making siege tank do 50 dmg to all types unsieged or sieged?
Mech would be halfway decent vs protoss if it weren't for the immortal. Remove that unit imo. There was no parallel in BW, and for good reason.
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On March 29 2012 23:49 ref4 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 23:34 tdt wrote:
My take from watching pro terrans and playing platnium ones (dont laugh) is the marine is the issue. It's the issue why top tier terrans are so good - because they can split, partial stim, studder, send a couple to take out 5 banes, bunker cheese etc.makin marine best unit in the game bar none and how they dominate all matchup in gsl. Amatuers and low level western pros can't making it an average unit and thier results less than average.
Considering this and low utility of mech I think blizz could solve two issues by nerfing marine and buffing mech. Pros couldnt rely on marine to dominate all matchups. Easier to work with and less micro intesive mech would become more powerful allowing amatuers a better shot whole game long and pros mech would be viable late. What do you terrans think?
Like give 50 damage to tank. More HP or irradation shield on Thor which fries bio in it's immediate vincinity. and marine 1 less range or 2 less dmg? Thoughts? mech is very strong vs. T and Z already. The buff in HoTS will fix mech vs. Protoss (hopefully) but I don't think buffing mech and nerfing Terran bio is the answer. Are you suggesting making siege tank do 50 dmg to all types unsieged or sieged?
It is not. Very rarly can you see a win pure mech at pro level. Mech composition usually gets screwed up by immortals and zealots or BL/corr.
base siege is 35 now is weak vs Z and totally unviable vs toss's high HP units. 50 would be viable I think to making a 100% mech composition without relying on marine supporting.
Anorher thing I forgot is weakening marine just a tad and strengthening Mech would give us shorter maps back. Isnt everyone getting tired of playing on these huge maps?
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i don't even understand why zerg still gets advantages... after saying to everybody for since starcraft came out, that zerg is strong, but hardest to play, nobody believed me. Now the get to know their own race and we can't do a shit about them anymore, only if our name is marineking. Blizzard supports this and gives them even more wider and easier expandable maps. I as a platinum player struggle alot against zerg, whereas protoss and terran are both good. They can easily runby into my bases and still have a shitton of units. they understood that they have the MASS ! and nobody can do something if a real zerg army runs into him. my army gets completely oblitareted and he just remaxes,because he had an easy 4th or so.
It even happens that you snipe the zergs 3rd 3 times but still they manage to come back. whatever had to say that , will get banned so or so cause of balace whine
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 29 2012 23:34 tdt wrote:
My take from watching pro terrans and playing platnium ones (dont laugh) is the marine is the issue. It's the issue why top tier terrans are so good - because they can split, partial stim, studder, send a couple to take out 5 banes, bunker cheese etc.makin marine best unit in the game bar none and how they dominate all matchup in gsl. Amatuers and low level western pros can't making it an average unit and thier results less than average.
Considering this and low utility of mech I think blizz could solve two issues by nerfing marine and buffing mech. Pros couldnt rely on marine to dominate all matchups. Easier to work with and less micro intesive mech would become more powerful allowing amatuers a better shot whole game long and pros mech would be viable late. What do you terrans think?
Like give 50 damage to tank. More HP or irradation shield on Thor which fries bio in it's immediate vincinity. and marine 1 less range or 2 less dmg? Thoughts?
2 less damage thats way to extreme, add guardian shield to that equation and maybe +1 armor for protoss and marines would actually heal zealots ^^
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I think that another major problem is that too many terrans rely on vikings to deal with collosus making your ground army weaker. If more terrans would rely on MMM+G than they wouldnt have as much trouble vs late game toss or toss in general because your ground army will be able to handle w/e toss throws out at you as long as you can get off good emps and have decent positioning/spread.
Most high level games that I see end up with the terran player having 12-16 vikings, they take out the collosus no problem but the terrans ground army suffers due to all of the supply being invested into vikings and they lose the ground battle when they land the vikings or they lose to the reinforcing chargelot/archon unit comp. Try it out in a unit tester, 3/3 bio/medivacs/ghosts vs 3/3/3 collosus/ht/archon/chargelot, heres a hint, bio+ghosts destorys it as long as you dont 1 a and have decent micro.
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On March 30 2012 00:00 Meta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 23:49 ref4 wrote:On March 29 2012 23:34 tdt wrote:
My take from watching pro terrans and playing platnium ones (dont laugh) is the marine is the issue. It's the issue why top tier terrans are so good - because they can split, partial stim, studder, send a couple to take out 5 banes, bunker cheese etc.makin marine best unit in the game bar none and how they dominate all matchup in gsl. Amatuers and low level western pros can't making it an average unit and thier results less than average.
Considering this and low utility of mech I think blizz could solve two issues by nerfing marine and buffing mech. Pros couldnt rely on marine to dominate all matchups. Easier to work with and less micro intesive mech would become more powerful allowing amatuers a better shot whole game long and pros mech would be viable late. What do you terrans think?
Like give 50 damage to tank. More HP or irradation shield on Thor which fries bio in it's immediate vincinity. and marine 1 less range or 2 less dmg? Thoughts? mech is very strong vs. T and Z already. The buff in HoTS will fix mech vs. Protoss (hopefully) but I don't think buffing mech and nerfing Terran bio is the answer. Are you suggesting making siege tank do 50 dmg to all types unsieged or sieged? Mech would be halfway decent vs protoss if it weren't for the immortal. Remove that unit imo. There was no parallel in BW, and for good reason.
Yes great idea! That way terrans can go 1-1-1 every single game and have >90% win rates!
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When talking about map winrates etc, remember that ladder stats will be very different from those in TLPD (and this thread was talking about Terrans disappearing from ladder). For example, even before the nerfs/buffs when Terran was at its peak in professional TvP, Blizzard released statistics showing that Protoss was favoured on ladder in NA and EU. And even though Taldarim is balanced at the professional level, Blizzard have stated (at the time they were removing Metalopolis) that it had a 60% Zerg winrate, making it (besides Metal) the most imbalanced map in the pool.
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On March 30 2012 00:00 Meta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 23:49 ref4 wrote:On March 29 2012 23:34 tdt wrote:
My take from watching pro terrans and playing platnium ones (dont laugh) is the marine is the issue. It's the issue why top tier terrans are so good - because they can split, partial stim, studder, send a couple to take out 5 banes, bunker cheese etc.makin marine best unit in the game bar none and how they dominate all matchup in gsl. Amatuers and low level western pros can't making it an average unit and thier results less than average.
Considering this and low utility of mech I think blizz could solve two issues by nerfing marine and buffing mech. Pros couldnt rely on marine to dominate all matchups. Easier to work with and less micro intesive mech would become more powerful allowing amatuers a better shot whole game long and pros mech would be viable late. What do you terrans think?
Like give 50 damage to tank. More HP or irradation shield on Thor which fries bio in it's immediate vincinity. and marine 1 less range or 2 less dmg? Thoughts? mech is very strong vs. T and Z already. The buff in HoTS will fix mech vs. Protoss (hopefully) but I don't think buffing mech and nerfing Terran bio is the answer. Are you suggesting making siege tank do 50 dmg to all types unsieged or sieged? Mech would be halfway decent vs protoss if it weren't for the immortal. Remove that unit imo. There was no parallel in BW, and for good reason.
chargelots is the bigger problem in my opinion, blue flame hellions are supposed to counter them but...
battle mode + warhound will improve mech a lot
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On March 30 2012 00:00 Meta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 23:49 ref4 wrote:On March 29 2012 23:34 tdt wrote:
My take from watching pro terrans and playing platnium ones (dont laugh) is the marine is the issue. It's the issue why top tier terrans are so good - because they can split, partial stim, studder, send a couple to take out 5 banes, bunker cheese etc.makin marine best unit in the game bar none and how they dominate all matchup in gsl. Amatuers and low level western pros can't making it an average unit and thier results less than average.
Considering this and low utility of mech I think blizz could solve two issues by nerfing marine and buffing mech. Pros couldnt rely on marine to dominate all matchups. Easier to work with and less micro intesive mech would become more powerful allowing amatuers a better shot whole game long and pros mech would be viable late. What do you terrans think?
Like give 50 damage to tank. More HP or irradation shield on Thor which fries bio in it's immediate vincinity. and marine 1 less range or 2 less dmg? Thoughts? mech is very strong vs. T and Z already. The buff in HoTS will fix mech vs. Protoss (hopefully) but I don't think buffing mech and nerfing Terran bio is the answer. Are you suggesting making siege tank do 50 dmg to all types unsieged or sieged? Mech would be halfway decent vs protoss if it weren't for the immortal. Remove that unit imo. There was no parallel in BW, and for good reason.
Just wanna say . . ghosts are kinda good. Mech isn't building 50 tanks and waiting... Pure mech isn't possible, but mix ghost or/and air in and it becomes really good
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EPT
